Re: Lyrics to hymn - new user
2013/10/17 Colin Campbell c...@shaw.ca: PS: @Janek: would a library of templates, not snippets, be a useful test for a workflow management system? Blimey, i've almost missed this email! Please cc me when you have a question for me, as i'm not able to read the whole list. To answer your question: of course! Janek ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Lyrics to hymn - new user
2013/10/17 David Kastrup d...@gnu.org: Carl Peterson carlopeter...@gmail.com writes: With my template system, most hymns take me 1/2 an hour at most, and probably 85% of that is music input, 10% of it is linking the template files together, and 5% of that is fixing input errors. So here is the challenging question: what would be required to have a hymn typesetter be able to look at the documentation of LilyPond, and start typesetting hymns with the delivered doc and styles within an hour? Just my 2ct (don't have time to elaborate in detail): i believe we lack a condensed quick-start tutorial. Learning Manual is simply too long - i imagine that at least 50% of newcomers willing to try LilyPond turn away when they see that they have to read a 150-page document first, *and then they'll have to use 800-page-long NR*. This translates to at least half day of work until i have any idea how to use it, and then a week until i'm able to do something useful. I believe we need something like this: http://lilypond-stuff.1065243.n5.nabble.com/file/n5705620/LilyPond_introduction.pdf (it's in Polish, but simply look at the examples). This is 6 pages long, about 30 min reading (measured with a watch), and gives one almost all information needed. I could translate it later if there is interest. Janek ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Lyrics to hymn - new user
garrettm30 wrote What I'm trying to deal with is the fact that the number of lines in the verses and the number of lines in the chorus very often do not match. See for example the attached image of where the verses and chorus meet in a particularly well-known hymn: You see that the chorus line there is not aligned with any of the verse lines, but rather both sides are centered according to the number of lines in their own section. I'm imagining some way to explicitly end a lyric context so that it won't the affect the spacing of a subsequent context when on the same line. I'm really just trying to figure out what is the best way to handle the verse/chorus transition. I expect I am going to encounter this kind of thing often since a lot of what I do are hymns. please have a look at http://lsr.dsi.unimi.it/LSR/Item?id=503 this still needs some tweak-ing/override-ing to get the alignment correctly. Eluze -- View this message in context: http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/Lyrics-to-hymn-new-user-tp152216p152553.html Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
RE: Lyrics to hymn - new user
Hi, Carl. I like your sample. What do you do to make the verses left aligned (and possibly shifted) at the start of a new system? Do you do it manually? I know one could do it fairly easy if at the start of every new verse in the lyrics one could put the directive to align the syllable to the left. I'm looking forward to learning more about your workflow with typesetting hymns, if you ever share it, especially your customized part-combine. Cheers, Eduardo ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Lyrics to hymn - new user
On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 9:12 AM, Eduardo Silva eduardo.su...@hotmail.comwrote:
Hi, Carl. I like your sample. What do you do to make the verses left
aligned (and possibly shifted) at the start of a new system? Do you do it
manually? I know one could do it fairly easy if at the start of every new
verse in the lyrics one could put the directive to align the syllable to
the left.
I'm looking forward to learning more about your workflow with typesetting
hymns, if you ever share it, especially your customized part-combine.
Cheers,
Eduardo
Someone on the list (I can't remember who, precisely) wrote a macro that
allows one to left-align all the lyric syllables at an arbitrary musical
point. It looks at all the syllables at that point, figures out the longest
one (as typeset), centers it, and left aligns all the other syllables
relative to the longest one. Search the archive for \tagIt (that's the name
of the macro that was created) and you should get close to it. You need
2.17.something to use, since it uses David's friendlier way of referring to
properties (Something.something, instead of Something #'something), but it
can be translated to pre 2.17 references (I did this when I first used it,
since I was using 2.16 at the time.
This is one of the reasons for the barCheck voice. I use it to specify
where to align syllables, so that I don't have to clutter my lyrics or
assume that the line begins at a certain point. For the example I posted,
this is the \barCheckVerse definition:
barCheckVerse = {
\time 3/4 \key d \major \partial 4
\tagIt s4 s2. s2 s4 s2. s2 \bar \break
\tagIt s4 s2. s2 s4 s2. s2 \bar \break \spb
\tagIt s4 s2. s2 s4 s2. s2 \bar \break
\tagIt s4 s2. s2 s4 s2. s2 \bar |.
}
the \spb macro allows me to define an page break if I am outputting to a
slide layout. In my global include, it is defined as { }, but in my slide
layout header, it is defined as { \pageBreak }.
I am attaching my altered part-combiner.scm file. The essential difference
is that the parameter that defines how large an interval between two voices
is before it separates them (in automatic mode) is reversed so that instead
of breaking intervals greater than an octave (or whatever it was set to),
it breaks intervals less than a third. I have some tweaks that I didn't
include in my sample to manipulate slurs so that by default, slurs are
doubled (for when voices combine), but are single slurs in the correct
direction when the voices separate.
When I find time, I'll work on creating a clean git repository to house the
basic template/framework I've developed.
Carl
part-combiner.scm
Description: Binary data
___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Lyrics to hymn - new user
2013/10/18 Carl Peterson carlopeter...@gmail.com: Someone on the list (I can't remember who, precisely) wrote a macro that allows one to left-align all the lyric syllables at an arbitrary musical point. It looks at all the syllables at that point, figures out the longest one (as typeset), centers it, and left aligns all the other syllables relative to the longest one. It was written by David Nalesnik, and can be found here: https://github.com/openlilylib/snippets/blob/master/custom-engravers/aligning-first-lyric-syllables.ily When I find time, I'll work on creating a clean git repository to house the basic template/framework I've developed. You're welcome to place your stuff in the openlilylib/snippets repository (https://github.com/openlilylib/snippets) - i think it'd be good to keep all lilypond stuff together. Janek ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
RE: Lyrics to hymn - new user
From: janek.lilyp...@gmail.com Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 16:36:20 +0200 Subject: Re: Lyrics to hymn - new user To: carlopeter...@gmail.com CC: eduardo.su...@hotmail.com; lilypond-user@gnu.org 2013/10/18 Carl Peterson carlopeter...@gmail.com: Someone on the list (I can't remember who, precisely) wrote a macro that allows one to left-align all the lyric syllables at an arbitrary musical point. It looks at all the syllables at that point, figures out the longest one (as typeset), centers it, and left aligns all the other syllables relative to the longest one. It was written by David Nalesnik, and can be found here: https://github.com/openlilylib/snippets/blob/master/custom-engravers/aligning-first-lyric-syllables.ily When I find time, I'll work on creating a clean git repository to house the basic template/framework I've developed. You're welcome to place your stuff in the openlilylib/snippets repository (https://github.com/openlilylib/snippets) - i think it'd be good to keep all lilypond stuff together. Janek Thank you, Carl and Janek. Awesome stuff. I liked your simple introduction to Lilypond, Janek, even though I don't speak any polish ;-) ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Lyrics to hymn - new user
2013/10/18 Janek Warchoł janek.lilyp...@gmail.com: 2013/10/18 Carl Peterson carlopeter...@gmail.com: Someone on the list (I can't remember who, precisely) wrote a macro that allows one to left-align all the lyric syllables at an arbitrary musical point. It looks at all the syllables at that point, figures out the longest one (as typeset), centers it, and left aligns all the other syllables relative to the longest one. It was written by David Nalesnik, and can be found here: https://github.com/openlilylib/snippets/blob/master/custom-engravers/aligning-first-lyric-syllables.ily Update: there was some renaming in the repository, and the snippet is now here: https://github.com/openlilylib/snippets/tree/master/notation-snippets/aligning-first-lyric-syllables ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Lyrics to hymn - new user
2013/10/18 Eduardo Silva eduardo.su...@hotmail.com: Thank you, Carl and Janek. Awesome stuff. I liked your simple introduction to Lilypond, Janek, even though I don't speak any polish ;-) I'm glad you liked it :-) ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Lyrics to hymn - new user
On Oct 12, 2013, at 10:25 PM, Carl Peterson carlopeter...@gmail.com wrote:
So this would be your basic setup:
\score {
\new Staff = top {
\new Voice = sopVerse { } % voice for verse melody and combined alto
\new Voice = altoVerse { } % voice for verse alto lines that
require separate stem, such as days on line 2
\new Voice = sopChorus { } % voice for chorus melody and combined
alto
\new Voice = altoChorus { } % voice for chorus alto lines that
require separate stem, particularly gently home at end
}
\new Staff = bottom {
\new Voice = tenVerse { } % voice for verse tenor lines requiring
separate stems
\new Voice = bassVerse { } % voice for verse bass and combined
tenor stems
\new Voice = tenChorus { } % voice for chorus tenor lines requiring
separate stems
\new Voice = bassChorus { } % voice for chorus bass and combined
tenor stems
}
}
You'll then associate your lyrics with the proper voices.
Oh dear, I did some testing yesterday, and I thought I had it figured out
following Carl's model above, but today I tried adding lyrics, and I get an
error: programming error: Moment is not increasing. Aborting
interpretation. I have tried to make a sample following the model above, and
for simplicity's sake I have brought it down to a single clef. Try this and it
will work beautifully (I'm on 2.16.2 and Mac OS 10.8.5) :
\version 2.16.2
sopVerse = \relative c' {
\time 3/4
\voiceOne
c4^Verses c d c e
}
altoVerse = \relative c' {
\voiceTwo
c4 s2
}
sopChorus = \relative f' {
\voiceOne
f4^Chorus f g f a
}
altoChorus = \relative f' {
\voiceTwo
f4 s2
}
\score {
\new Staff = top \relative c' {
\new Voice = sopVerse { \sopVerse }
\new Voice = altoVerse { \altoVerse }
% \new Lyrics \lyricsto sopVerse { one two three }
\new Voice = sopChorus { \sopChorus }
\new Voice = altoChorus { \altoChorus }
% \new Lyrics \lyricsto sopChorus { four five six }
}
}
That works like you would expect, but uncomment the two \new Lyrics lines and
it will cause the error. Is there something wrong with the way it is laid out?
I tried really hard to mimic Carl's model, and I can't find that I'm missing
anything.___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Lyrics to hymn - new user
2013/10/17 Garrett McGilvray garrett.mcgilv...@gmail.com:
On Oct 12, 2013, at 10:25 PM, Carl Peterson carlopeter...@gmail.com wrote:
So this would be your basic setup:
\score {
\new Staff = top {
\new Voice = sopVerse { } % voice for verse melody and combined
alto
\new Voice = altoVerse { } % voice for verse alto lines that
require separate stem, such as days on line 2
\new Voice = sopChorus { } % voice for chorus melody and combined
alto
\new Voice = altoChorus { } % voice for chorus alto lines that
require separate stem, particularly gently home at end
}
\new Staff = bottom {
\new Voice = tenVerse { } % voice for verse tenor lines requiring
separate stems
\new Voice = bassVerse { } % voice for verse bass and combined
tenor stems
\new Voice = tenChorus { } % voice for chorus tenor lines requiring
separate stems
\new Voice = bassChorus { } % voice for chorus bass and combined
tenor stems
}
}
You'll then associate your lyrics with the proper voices.
Oh dear, I did some testing yesterday, and I thought I had it figured out
following Carl's model above, but today I tried adding lyrics, and I get an
error: programming error: Moment is not increasing. Aborting
interpretation. I have tried to make a sample following the model above,
and for simplicity's sake I have brought it down to a single clef. Try this
and it will work beautifully (I'm on 2.16.2 and Mac OS 10.8.5) :
\version 2.16.2
sopVerse = \relative c' {
\time 3/4
\voiceOne
c4^Verses c d c e
}
altoVerse = \relative c' {
\voiceTwo
c4 s2
}
sopChorus = \relative f' {
\voiceOne
f4^Chorus f g f a
}
altoChorus = \relative f' {
\voiceTwo
f4 s2
}
\score {
\new Staff = top \relative c' {
\new Voice = sopVerse { \sopVerse }
\new Voice = altoVerse { \altoVerse }
% \new Lyrics \lyricsto sopVerse { one two three }
\new Voice = sopChorus { \sopChorus }
\new Voice = altoChorus { \altoChorus }
% \new Lyrics \lyricsto sopChorus { four five six }
}
}
That works like you would expect, but uncomment the two \new Lyrics lines
and it will cause the error. Is there something wrong with the way it is
laid out? I tried really hard to mimic Carl's model, and I can't find that
I'm missing anything.
___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Hi,
don't put \new Lyrics _into_ the Staff.
Here two possibilities, depends on what you want:
\score {
\new Staff = top \relative c' {
\new Voice = sopVerse { \sopVerse }
\new Voice = altoVerse { \altoVerse }
\new Voice = sopChorus { \sopChorus }
\new Voice = altoChorus { \altoChorus }
}
\new Lyrics \lyricsto sopVerse {
one two
%% Tricky: need to set associatedVoice
%% one syllable too soon!
\set associatedVoice = sopChorus
three
four five six
}
}
\score {
\new Staff = top \relative c' {
\new Voice = sopVerse { \sopVerse }
\new Voice = altoVerse { \altoVerse }
\new Voice = sopChorus { \sopChorus }
\new Voice = altoChorus { \altoChorus }
}
\new Lyrics \lyricsto sopVerse { one two three }
\new Lyrics \lyricsto sopChorus { four five six }
}
HTH,
Harm
___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Lyrics to hymn - new user
Thomas Morley-2 wrote
don't put \new Lyrics _into_ the Staff.
fully agree!
Here two possibilities, depends on what you want:
\score {
\new Staff = top \relative c' {
\new Voice = sopVerse { \sopVerse }
\new Voice = altoVerse { \altoVerse }
\new Voice = sopChorus { \sopChorus }
\new Voice = altoChorus { \altoChorus }
}
\new Lyrics \lyricsto sopVerse { one two three }
\new Lyrics \lyricsto sopChorus { four five six }
}
I'm not sure, but I guess Garrett wants the lyrics in a sequential line so
I'd put
\score {
\new Staff=top {
\new Voice = sopVerse \sopVerse
\new Voice = altoVerse \altoVerse
\new Voice = sopChorus \sopChorus
\new Voice = altoChorus \altoChorus
}
\new Lyrics =lyrics \lyricsto sopVerse { one two three }
\context Lyrics =lyrics \lyricsto sopChorus { four five six } % Or \new
... to have the lyrics on different lines
}
Eluze
--
View this message in context:
http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/Lyrics-to-hymn-new-user-tp152216p152523.html
Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Lyrics to hymn - new user
On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 5:55 PM, Garrett McGilvray
garrett.mcgilv...@gmail.com wrote:
On Oct 12, 2013, at 10:25 PM, Carl Peterson carlopeter...@gmail.com
wrote:
So this would be your basic setup:
\score {
\new Staff = top {
\new Voice = sopVerse { } % voice for verse melody and combined
alto
\new Voice = altoVerse { } % voice for verse alto lines that
require separate stem, such as days on line 2
\new Voice = sopChorus { } % voice for chorus melody and combined
alto
\new Voice = altoChorus { } % voice for chorus alto lines that
require separate stem, particularly gently home at end
}
\new Staff = bottom {
\new Voice = tenVerse { } % voice for verse tenor lines requiring
separate stems
\new Voice = bassVerse { } % voice for verse bass and combined
tenor stems
\new Voice = tenChorus { } % voice for chorus tenor lines
requiring separate stems
\new Voice = bassChorus { } % voice for chorus bass and
combined tenor stems
}
}
You'll then associate your lyrics with the proper voices.
Oh dear, I did some testing yesterday, and I thought I had it figured out
following Carl's model above, but today I tried adding lyrics, and I get an
error: programming error: Moment is not increasing. Aborting
interpretation. I have tried to make a sample following the model above,
and for simplicity's sake I have brought it down to a single clef. Try this
and it will work beautifully (I'm on 2.16.2 and Mac OS 10.8.5) :
\version 2.16.2
sopVerse = \relative c' {
\time 3/4
\voiceOne
c4^Verses c d c e
}
altoVerse = \relative c' {
\voiceTwo
c4 s2
}
sopChorus = \relative f' {
\voiceOne
f4^Chorus f g f a
}
altoChorus = \relative f' {
\voiceTwo
f4 s2
}
\score {
\new Staff = top \relative c' {
\new Voice = sopVerse { \sopVerse }
\new Voice = altoVerse { \altoVerse }
% \new Lyrics \lyricsto sopVerse { one two three }
\new Voice = sopChorus { \sopChorus }
\new Voice = altoChorus { \altoChorus }
% \new Lyrics \lyricsto sopChorus { four five six }
}
}
That works like you would expect, but uncomment the two \new Lyrics
lines and it will cause the error. Is there something wrong with the way it
is laid out? I tried really hard to mimic Carl's model, and I can't find
that I'm missing anything.
Here is what one of the score blocks looks like from one of my
compositions. This includes the part combining and a custom Voice context
that I use to preserve the individual voices for lyrics, but hide them on
the staff. As a side note, I do not know how this will work if the chorus
starts on the same system as the verse ends. As a rule, I *always* start
the chorus on a new system. The barCheck variables are how I define my
key/time signatures, special bars, line breaks, etc. There are multiple
reasons I do it this way instead of integrating in one or all of the voices.
\score {
\new Staff = top
{ \clef treble \partcombine { \sNotes \sNotesChorus }
{ \aNotes \aNotesChorus } }
{ \new PartVoice = sVoice \sNotes
\new PartVoice = sVoiceChorus \sNotesChorus }
{ \new PartVoice = aVoice \aNotes
\new PartVoice = aVoiceChorus \aNotesChorus }
\new Voice { \barCheckVerse \barCheckChorus }
\new Lyrics \lyricsto sVoice { \set stanza = 1. \verseA }
\new Lyrics \lyricsto sVoice { \set stanza = 2. \verseB }
\new Lyrics \lyricsto sVoice { \set stanza = 3. \verseC }
\new Lyrics \lyricsto sVoiceChorus { \chorus }
\new Staff = bottom
{ \clef bass \partcombine { \tNotes \tNotesChorus }
{ \bNotes \bNotesChorus } }
{ \new PartVoice = tVoice \tNotes
\new PartVoice = tVoiceChorus \tNotesChorus }
{ \new PartVoice = bVoice \bNotes
\new PartVoice = bVoiceChorus \bNotesChorus }
\new Voice { \barCheckVerse \barCheckChorus }
\layout {
\context {
\Staff
printPartCombineTexts = ##f
\accepts PartVoice
}
\context {
\Voice
\name PartVoice
\alias Voice
\remove Dots_engraver
\remove Script_engraver
\remove Drum_notes_engraver
\remove New_fingering_engraver
\remove Rest_engraver
\remove Multi_measure_rest_engraver
\override Slur #'transparent = ##t
\override Tie #'transparent = ##t
\override NoteColumn #'ignore-collision = ##t
\hideNotes
\remove Dynamic_engraver
\remove New_dynamic_engraver
}
}
}
Carl
___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Lyrics to hymn - new user
Hi Folks. I thank you all for your continued help. Thomas Morley-2 wrote don't put \new Lyrics _into_ the Staff. This one line showed me the essence of my error, so I am able to work from there. Now that I look at it, it does look like a newbie error, but I just wasn't seeing it before. Eluze wrote: I'm not sure, but I guess Garrett wants the lyrics in a sequential line What I'm trying to deal with is the fact that the number of lines in the verses and the number of lines in the chorus very often do not match. See for example the attached image of where the verses and chorus meet in a particularly well-known hymn: inline: sample.jpeg You see that the chorus line there is not aligned with any of the verse lines, but rather both sides are centered according to the number of lines in their own section. I'm imagining some way to explicitly end a lyric context so that it won't the affect the spacing of a subsequent context when on the same line. I'm really just trying to figure out what is the best way to handle the verse/chorus transition. I expect I am going to encounter this kind of thing often since a lot of what I do are hymns. My current project is just a simple arrangement of Silver Bells for a Christmas event later this year, and I've used one of the methods suggested here (the \set associatedVoice) and some heavy-handed forcing of lyric order. The current solution is not too bad. I'll send my file in case any one wants to look at it to see if you can think of a better way (but only if you want to). Please excuse the fact that my music training is not in composition :( Silver Bells.ly Description: Binary data ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Lyrics to hymn - new user
On Oct 13, 2013, at 8:44 PM, Carl Peterson carlopeter...@gmail.com wrote:
To your specific issue, what you would do is use skips to get the notes where
they need to be. For instance, if you were to define variables outside the
score block for the parts,
sopVerse = { c' g'4 c' f' c' e' \stemUp d' c'2 \stemNeutral c' g' }
altoVerse = { \stemDown s2. c'4 c'2 s2 }
This would have three beats chorded, then two sets of notes separated, then
the last stack chorded.
Carl,
I've now had a chance to practice following the examples you have given me
(both sets), and now I understand how to do what I need to do. Thank you for
taking the time to answer my question and give me an example of how it will
work.
And thanks also to the several who gave their thoughts to whether I should
reply to all. This is indeed a very helpful community of people. I'm coming
from a background in occasional usage of Finale, and although it seems weird to
move away from the real thing (a very expensive app I paid for) for this free
and text-based solution, the truth is that I'm finding that the results are
just better and require a lot less fighting to get right, and all that thanks
to a community of people who are doing it out of the goodness of their hearts.
Thanks to all: those who program, support, and contribute to LilyPond and
Frescobaldi, and to the community of helpful users.
___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Lyrics to hymn - new user
Garrett McGilvray garrett.mcgilv...@gmail.com writes: truth is that I'm finding that the results are just better and require a lot less fighting to get right, and all that thanks to a community of people who are doing it out of the goodness of their hearts. For myself, I feel entitled to quoting Mae West: Goodness had nothing to do with it, dearie. While my life style still is somewhat lacking in open extravagance compared to that of the bejeweled character played by Ms West, monetary contributions from LilyPond lovers allow me to play all day and night with, well, LilyPond. Thanks to all: those who program, support, and contribute to LilyPond and Frescobaldi, and to the community of helpful users. Part of what makes this possible is the text nature of LilyPond: this makes it possible to swap authoritive experience over a text-based medium like this mailing list. That's definitely harder to do where a GUI-entry program is involved. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Lyrics to hymn - new user
On Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 6:54 PM, Garrett McGilvray garrett.mcgilv...@gmail.com wrote: And thanks also to the several who gave their thoughts to whether I should reply to all. This is indeed a very helpful community of people. I'm coming from a background in occasional usage of Finale, and although it seems weird to move away from the real thing (a very expensive app I paid for) for this free and text-based solution, the truth is that I'm finding that the results are just better and require a lot less fighting to get right, and all that thanks to a community of people who are doing it out of the goodness of their hearts. Thanks to all: those who program, support, and contribute to LilyPond and Frescobaldi, and to the community of helpful users. Regarding a lot less fighting to get right, I am acquainted with a number of people who have been involved in publishing hymnals with shape notes. I constantly see them talking about all the work arounds to make shape note stems work correctly, to get the spacing right, etc., etc. My comment is always, Or you could just use LilyPond. In talking with one person who does a lot of hymn setting in Finale. He says it takes him at least an hour to set a hymn and get it right and fix all the quirks of Finale. With my template system, most hymns take me 1/2 an hour at most, and probably 85% of that is music input, 10% of it is linking the template files together, and 5% of that is fixing input errors. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Lyrics to hymn - new user
Carl Peterson carlopeter...@gmail.com writes: With my template system, most hymns take me 1/2 an hour at most, and probably 85% of that is music input, 10% of it is linking the template files together, and 5% of that is fixing input errors. So here is the challenging question: what would be required to have a hymn typesetter be able to look at the documentation of LilyPond, and start typesetting hymns with the delivered doc and styles within an hour? That will very likely mean that the documentation and the available files/styles would need to be different. How do we get your knowhow into LilyPond in a way that gives those others no excuse even if they don't fancy getting a training session with you? Would you consider this a worthwhile endeavor? -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Lyrics to hymn - new user
On 13-10-16 08:05 PM, David Kastrup wrote: Carl Peterson carlopeter...@gmail.com writes: With my template system, most hymns take me 1/2 an hour at most, and probably 85% of that is music input, 10% of it is linking the template files together, and 5% of that is fixing input errors. So here is the challenging question: what would be required to have a hymn typesetter be able to look at the documentation of LilyPond, and start typesetting hymns with the delivered doc and styles within an hour? That will very likely mean that the documentation and the available files/styles would need to be different. How do we get your knowhow into LilyPond in a way that gives those others no excuse even if they don't fancy getting a training session with you? Would you consider this a worthwhile endeavor? If it's useful, Carlo could have a look at the Vocal Music Snippets in the documentation, which contains things such as hymn templates, as well as the available material in tne Notation Reference under section 2.1. I can then correspond directly with him off the list, to generate a set of suggested updates either to NR or the snippets manual. I haven't looked at LSR lately, but there may also be gold to be mined ther eas well. Cheers, Colin PS: @Janek: would a library of templates, not snippets, be a useful test for a workflow management system? -- I've learned that you shouldn't go through life with a catcher's mitt on both hands. You need to be able to throw something back. -Maya Angelou, poet (1928- ) ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Lyrics to hymn - new user
On Oct 16, 2013, at 9:05 PM, David Kastrup d...@gnu.org wrote: So here is the challenging question: what would be required to have a hymn typesetter be able to look at the documentation of LilyPond, and start typesetting hymns with the delivered doc and styles within an hour? There are a couple of useful snippets for hymns, but for me the trouble was that they all had each part as a separate voice, whereas most of the hymnals I am familiar with use shape notes with the parts on each staff grouped in a single voice as a chord. The shape notes are super easy (thank you LilyPond!). The difficulty comes with the occasional split voices or where two parts share a single pitch, necessitating stems going both directions from a single note head. Carl has helped me get going, but getting that kind of music to play nicely with lyrics was the challenge for me. And now off topic but in response to Carl... On Oct 16, 2013, at 8:46 PM, Carl Peterson carlopeter...@gmail.com wrote: Regarding a lot less fighting to get right, I am acquainted with a number of people who have been involved in publishing hymnals with shape notes. I constantly see them talking about all the work arounds to make shape note stems work correctly, to get the spacing right, etc., etc. My comment is always, Or you could just use LilyPond. In talking with one person who does a lot of hymn setting in Finale. He says it takes him at least an hour to set a hymn and get it right and fix all the quirks of Finale. For the me the shape notes aren't too hard. It isn't obvious how to set it. Honestly, even though it is a GUI, I have to spend as much time in the documentation sometimes as I do for LilyPond as a new user. But once you learn how, the only annoyance there is that Finale is not smart enough to flip the Fa note head depending on stem direction so you have to manually select a new note head for every instance. However, my greatest annoyance was this: When trying to make versions to be displayed by PowerPoint, the goal is to have large text for readability without having one measure per line, and this means a lot of manual measure spacing, then moving the alignment of lyrics and notes manually throughout. So I would spend a good deal of time working on all of this custom spacing, and then I would notice one little error in the music I had input. A simple fix, right? Nope. I make the one little change, and the entire spacing reflows back to default, negating a good deal of work. I really hated that. I'm hoping I can replace Finale for good in making PowerPoint versions of hymns. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Lyrics to hymn - new user
Hi Carl,
On Oct 12, 2013, at 10:25 PM, Carl Peterson carlopeter...@gmail.com wrote:
The basic answer is that you ideally need two sequential sets of voice
contexts, one for the verse, one for the chorus. So this would be your basic
setup:
\score {
\new Staff = top {
\new Voice = sopVerse { } % voice for verse melody and combined alto
\new Voice = altoVerse { } % voice for verse alto lines that
require separate stem, such as days on line 2
\new Voice = sopChorus { } % voice for chorus melody and combined
alto
\new Voice = altoChorus { } % voice for chorus alto lines that
require separate stem, particularly gently home at end
}
\new Staff = bottom {
\new Voice = tenVerse { } % voice for verse tenor lines requiring
separate stems
\new Voice = bassVerse { } % voice for verse bass and combined
tenor stems
\new Voice = tenChorus { } % voice for chorus tenor lines requiring
separate stems
\new Voice = bassChorus { } % voice for chorus bass and combined
tenor stems
}
}
You'll then associate your lyrics with the proper voices. Since the tenor
requires no separate lyrics (the final gently home can be attached to the
altoChorus voice), the mmr is not a huge issue here. You may need to do some
manual positioning to put it up high enough.
I am so very grateful for your help. I have taken some time to study your
answer and do some practicing. I'm sorry to say that I'm still stuck. Where I
am getting confused is how to make a partial line (such as a note here or there
in the Voice altoVerse) come in and out next to a continuous running line (as
the mixed soprano/alto Voice sopVerse). Here's what I tried that I thought
made sense, although it also seemed like doing it the hard way. In any case, it
did not work:
womenVerse = \relative c' {
\global
\keyTime
\new Voice = sopVerse {
ef g4. f af8 fs a4 g bf |
af c2 g bf4 ef g |
c' ef4. c ef8 bf d4 af c |
g bf2. r4 |
f af4. g bf8 af f'4 af d |
g ef'2 ef g4 g ef' |
f d'4.
}
\new Voice = sopVerse { f8 }
\new Voice = altoVerse { f8 }
\new Voice = sopVerse {
ef g4 ef a |
d bf'2. r4 |
d af'4. d af'8 d af'4 d af' |
d af'2 ef g4 r |
ef c'4. ef c'8 fs c'4 fs c' |
g bf2. r4 |
f af4 g bf bf g'4. af f'8 |
g f'4 g ef' ef c' ef af |
\set doubleSlurs = ##t
ef g8( g bf4) g bf8 f af4 d f |
\unset doubleSlurs
}
\new Voice = sopVerse { ef2 }
\new Voice = altoVerse { ef2 }
\new Voice = sopVerse {
r4 \bar .
}
}
Then I tried to plug in my variable to a score block after your model, but I
didn't have any luck. I figure somehow I'm not using the variable right. Do you
have a hymn you have done that you wouldn't mind sending the file so I could
study it? Or perhaps the hacked version is different so it wouldn't work on my
end?
P.S.: nice scan from Wiegand's _Praise for the Lord_
Good catch! So was that a Google search or are you familiar with that hymnal? I
was really excited that you recognized it. I think it's my favorite of the
current hymnals.
Thanks again for your kind help.
PS. For anyone: is it proper etiquette to reply to all or just the person who
responded?
___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Lyrics to hymn - new user
2013/10/13 Garrett McGilvray garrett.mcgilv...@gmail.com PS. For anyone: is it proper etiquette to reply to all or just the person who responded? reply to all is the right thing (unless you want to really send a private message) ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Lyrics to hymn - new user
On Sun, Oct 13, 2013 at 3:03 PM, Garrett McGilvray
garrett.mcgilv...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Carl,
I am so very grateful for your help. I have taken some time to study your
answer and do some practicing. I'm sorry to say that I'm still stuck. Where
I am getting confused is how to make a partial line (such as a note here or
there in the Voice altoVerse) come in and out next to a continuous
running line (as the mixed soprano/alto Voice sopVerse). Here's what I
tried that I thought made sense, although it also seemed like doing it the
hard way. In any case, it did not work:
Then I tried to plug in my variable to a score block after your model, but
I didn't have any luck. I figure somehow I'm not using the variable right.
Do you have a hymn you have done that you wouldn't mind sending the file so
I could study it? Or perhaps the hacked version is different so it wouldn't
work on my end?
The hacked version allows me to define the individual part lines and then
throw then together with an automatic part combiner and some hidden voices
to allow for associating the lyrics voices. The only thing the hacked
version does is make sure the part combining is done correctly, as is
typically seen in _Praise for the Lord_ and a few other related hymnals.
To your specific issue, what you would do is use skips to get the notes
where they need to be. For instance, if you were to define variables
outside the score block for the parts,
sopVerse = { c' g'4 c' f' c' e' \stemUp d' c'2 \stemNeutral c' g' }
altoVerse = { \stemDown s2. c'4 c'2 s2 }
This would have three beats chorded, then two sets of notes separated, then
the last stack chorded.
P.S.: nice scan from Wiegand's _Praise for the Lord_
Good catch! So was that a Google search or are you familiar with that
hymnal? I was really excited that you recognized it. I think it's my
favorite of the current hymnals.
It's in my collection, along with Howard's _Songs of Faith and Praise_
(which I'm not a huge fan of) and a few other current Church of Christ
hymnals. That it used shaped notes caught my attention. From there, the
lyric font was a dead giveaway. I agree that PFTL is a quality collection.
I've only used it in worship a couple of times while visiting other
congregations.
Thanks again for your kind help.
np
___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Lyrics to hymn - new user
On Sat, Oct 12, 2013 at 9:26 PM, Garrett McGilvray
garrett.mcgilv...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi folks,
The short version of the question (I think) is this: how do you set a
multi-measure rest when manually specifying lyric duration?
--
If the short version isn't sufficient, here is what I am trying to solve:
I've hit a brick wall trying to figure out how to layout my lyrics for a
hymn. The arrangement is fairly common, where everyone sings the same line
for each of the stanzas, but there are split parts in the chorus. I
attached a picture of the hymn so you can see what I mean more clearly:
I had in mind setting almost all of the lyrics to the women voice
(soprano alto), and then manually entering the duration for only the
lower part of the chorus (where the basses start their soli in the chorus).
However, that's the part where I would need to know how to put a
multi-measure rest so that that line won't begin during the verses. Or is
there a better way?
I have a template I use for my hymn writing that allows me to deal with
this fairly easily, but it relies in part on a hacked version of LilyPond.
The basic answer is that you ideally need two sequential sets of voice
contexts, one for the verse, one for the chorus. So this would be your
basic setup:
\score {
\new Staff = top {
\new Voice = sopVerse { } % voice for verse melody and combined
alto
\new Voice = altoVerse { } % voice for verse alto lines that
require separate stem, such as days on line 2
\new Voice = sopChorus { } % voice for chorus melody and combined
alto
\new Voice = altoChorus { } % voice for chorus alto lines that
require separate stem, particularly gently home at end
}
\new Staff = bottom {
\new Voice = tenVerse { } % voice for verse tenor lines requiring
separate stems
\new Voice = bassVerse { } % voice for verse bass and combined
tenor stems
\new Voice = tenChorus { } % voice for chorus tenor lines
requiring separate stems
\new Voice = bassChorus { } % voice for chorus bass and combined
tenor stems
}
}
You'll then associate your lyrics with the proper voices. Since the tenor
requires no separate lyrics (the final gently home can be attached to the
altoChorus voice), the mmr is not a huge issue here. You may need to do
some manual positioning to put it up high enough.
Cheers,
Carl
P.S.: nice scan from Wiegand's _Praise for the Lord_
___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
