Re: Metronome marking with non-integer value
Le lundi 26 juin 2023 à 18:54 +0200, Simon Albrecht a écrit :
> Would the relatively new
>
> \layout {
> \enablePolymeter
> }
>
> be appropriate here? (plus of course \cadenzaOn and \remove
> Time_signature_engraver)
It won't really help — \enablePolymeter serves to enable different time
signatures on different staves and bar lines that aren't synchronized across
staves, which isn't relevant if all staves have no time signatures, no bar lines
and suspended timing with \cadenzaOn.
Best,
Jean
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Re: Metronome marking with non-integer value
On 25.06.23 16:36, Jean Abou Samra wrote:
|\layout { \context { \Score \remove Metronome_mark_engraver
\cadenzaOn } \context { \Staff \remove Time_signature_engraver
\consists Metronome_mark_engraver } }|
Would the relatively new
\layout {
\enablePolymeter
}
be appropriate here? (plus of course \cadenzaOn and \remove
Time_signature_engraver)
Best, Simon
Re: Metronome marking with non-integer value
> Interestingly, and this would have been the topic of my next message, the
> resulting MIDI output is always correct whatever \tempo I put (it can be the
> same \tempo for all staves). In the example below the top staff is always set
> to 4 = 120 and the other staves correctly follow. I'm wondering if this is
> because \scaleDurations overrides any \tempo indication, or because of
> \cadenzaOn.
>
> In your code below, there are no custom MIDI tempo settings, since you did
> not include any \set Score.tempoWholesPerMinute = ... command (\tempo adds
> this along with a TempoChangeEvent, as Valentin explained).
>
> Even with \tempo, MIDI cannot have several tempi for several tracks I
> believe. At any rate, LilyPond will just choose the last one seen, and
> consistently apply it to all staves. Just try swapping the staves in
>
> \version "2.24.1"
>
> \score {
> <<
> \new Staff { \tempo 4 = 60 c'4 4 4 4 }
> \new Staff { \tempo 4 = 120 c'4 4 4 4 }
> >>
> \midi { }
> }
>
> to hear the difference.
Hi Jean, thank you so much to you as well for the detailed explanation
and examples. I'm still getting the hang of how many aspects of
Lilypond works, and all of this is really useful.
>
> \scaleDurations does not override \tempo. But, it makes notes performed at a
> different pace than what their written durations would normally make for. For
> example, “\scaleDurations 2” will turn quarter notes into half notes for
> MIDI, while preserving their appearance (filled note heads) in the printed
> output.
>
> But it's not a problem, as it works as it should.
>
> In any case, here below an example that uses your 'Weird tempo' marking. Also
> I added a rounding function found on Stack Overflow to avoid a visually too
> long decimal. However, the resulting MIDI file doesn't show any visible
> rounding issue.
>
> What about just making your own tempo marks as \markup ? I think that's more
> future-proof than putting a non-integer into 'metronome-count while the
> parser code would only let an integer pass through and downstream code may
> thus legitimately (IMHO) assume it's integer.
>
> Something like the following should do it:
Fantastic, thank you so much for this!
Cheers,
Lib
Re: Metronome marking with non-integer value
Le dimanche 25 juin 2023 à 15:59 +0300, Lib Lists a écrit :
> Hi Valentin,
>
> thank you so much for your time, it works perfectly and the detailed
> explanation is really helpful and welcome (now I need to experiment
> more on my own to fully understand everything).
>
> Interestingly, and this would have been the topic of my next message,
> the resulting MIDI output is always correct whatever \tempo I put (it
> can be the same \tempo for all staves). In the example below the top
> staff is always set to 4 = 120 and the other staves correctly follow.
> I'm wondering if this is because \scaleDurations overrides any \tempo
> indication, or because of \cadenzaOn.
In your code below, there are no custom MIDI tempo settings, since you did not
include any \set Score.tempoWholesPerMinute = ... command (\tempo adds this
along with a TempoChangeEvent, as Valentin explained).
Even with \tempo, MIDI cannot have several tempi for several tracks I believe.
At any rate, LilyPond will just choose the last one seen, and consistently
apply it to all staves. Just try swapping the staves in
```
\version "2.24.1"
\score {
<<
\new Staff { \tempo 4 = 60 c'4 4 4 4 }
\new Staff { \tempo 4 = 120 c'4 4 4 4 }
>>
\midi { }
}
```
to hear the difference.
\scaleDurations does not override \tempo. But, it makes notes performed at a
different pace than what their written durations would normally make for. For
example, “\scaleDurations 2” will turn quarter notes into half notes for MIDI,
while preserving their appearance (filled note heads) in the printed output.
> But it's not a problem, as it works as it should.
>
> In any case, here below an example that uses your 'Weird tempo'
> marking. Also I added a rounding function found on Stack Overflow to
> avoid a visually too long decimal. However, the resulting MIDI file
> doesn't show any visible rounding issue.
What about just making your own tempo marks as \markup ? I think that's more
future-proof than putting a non-integer into 'metronome-count while the parser
code would only let an integer pass through and downstream code may thus
legitimately (IMHO) assume it's integer.
Something like the following should do it:
```
\version "2.25.5"
#(ly:set-option 'midi-extension "mid")
voiceAmount = 7
\score {
\new StaffGroup <<
#@(map (lambda (i)
#{
\new Staff {
\scaleDurations #(cons voiceAmount i) {
\tempo \markup {
\rhythm {4} =
\normal-weight #(format #f "~,2f" (* i (/ 120.0 voiceAmount )))
}
\relative c'' \repeat unfold #i {{c c c c }} \bar "||"
}
}
#})
(iota voiceAmount voiceAmount -1))
>>
\layout {
\context {
\Score
\remove Metronome_mark_engraver
\cadenzaOn
}
\context {
\Staff
\remove Time_signature_engraver
\consists Metronome_mark_engraver
}
}
\midi { }
}
```
Regards,
Jean
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Re: Metronome marking with non-integer value
Hi all, > P.S. Rational / decimal metronome markings can be useful for > analytical purposes (performance studies, or rhythmically complex / > generative music such as Nancarrow etc.). Also for music to be > performed if the piece has i.e. (multiple) click tracks or conductors, > or if it is music written for mechanical instruments. 1. Click tracks is definitely where non-integer metronome markings come up most often, and are not only useful but downright essential. 2. I’m quite good at feeling/hearing/knowing tempi — in fact, several colleagues and I have a running contest where one of us calls out a number (representing a tempo marking), we each try to tap it out, and after comparing to a metronome the person who is closest “wins” (usually a drink); the winner is almost always ±2 (and usually ±1) of the metronome reference tempo. In 2007, I was producing a studio recording (Pierrot ensemble plus percussion and two singers). The composer of one of the pieces used non-integer metronome markings, and those of us in the booth (including three of us involved in that “running contest”) poked fun at the whole idea. At one point, the composer stopped the take and said “That sounded more like 70 than 70.6”. We rolled our eyes… but when we analysed the tempo in Pro Tools, he was absolutely right! Until that recording session, I really had no idea that anyone could hear fractional tempo differences that accurately. Cheers, Kieren __ My work day may look different than your work day. Please do not feel obligated to read or respond to this email outside of your normal working hours.
Re: Metronome marking with non-integer value
Hi Valentin,
thank you so much for your time, it works perfectly and the detailed
explanation is really helpful and welcome (now I need to experiment
more on my own to fully understand everything).
Interestingly, and this would have been the topic of my next message,
the resulting MIDI output is always correct whatever \tempo I put (it
can be the same \tempo for all staves). In the example below the top
staff is always set to 4 = 120 and the other staves correctly follow.
I'm wondering if this is because \scaleDurations overrides any \tempo
indication, or because of \cadenzaOn. But it's not a problem, as it
works as it should.
In any case, here below an example that uses your 'Weird tempo'
marking. Also I added a rounding function found on Stack Overflow to
avoid a visually too long decimal. However, the resulting MIDI file
doesn't show any visible rounding issue.
Thank you again,
Lib
P.S. Rational / decimal metronome markings can be useful for
analytical purposes (performance studies, or rhythmically complex /
generative music such as Nancarrow etc.). Also for music to be
performed if the piece has i.e. (multiple) click tracks or conductors,
or if it is music written for mechanical instruments. I agree though
that in the big scheme of things those are quite unusual cases :-)
\version "2.25.5"
#(ly:set-option 'midi-extension "mid")
voiceAmount = 7
% round-off taken from:
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/16302038/float-precision-and-removing-rounding-errors-in-scheme
#(define (round-off z n)
(let ((power (expt 10 n)))
(/ (round (* power z)) power)))
\score {
\new StaffGroup <<
#@(map (lambda (i)
#{
\new Staff {
\scaleDurations #(cons voiceAmount i) {
#(make-music
'TempoChangeEvent
'metronome-count
(round-off (* i (/ 120.0 voiceAmount )) 2)
'tempo-unit
(ly:make-duration 2)
)
\relative c'' \repeat unfold #i {{c c c c }} \bar "||"
}
}
#})
(iota voiceAmount voiceAmount -1))
>>
\layout {
\context {
\Score
\remove Metronome_mark_engraver
\cadenzaOn
}
\context {
\Staff
\remove Time_signature_engraver
\consists Metronome_mark_engraver
}
}
\midi { }
}
On Sun, 25 Jun 2023 at 14:13, Valentin Petzel wrote:
>
> Hello Lib,
>
> this is a limitation of the Lilypond parser which implements the syntax
>
> \tempo [text] [duration = ...]
>
> Here it assumes that ... is an unsigned integer. This I think is not
> unreasonable, if you tell a musician to play something in MM 72.4 he will
> probably be a bit confused.
>
> Anyway, the solution to the problem would be to simply not use this parser
> feature. \tempo is only a parser feature and not a music function as a music
> functions do not allow the 4 = 120 syntax and does not allow having two
> arguments both of which can be optional but one being mandatory.
>
> But in the end \tempo ... still evaluates to a music event, as you can see if
> you do
>
> \displayMusic \tempo "some text" 4 = 120
>
> This creates two music events:
>
> (make-music
> 'TempoChangeEvent
> 'metronome-count
> 120
> 'tempo-unit
> (ly:make-duration 2)
> 'text
> "some text")
>
> is the event that is responsible for creating the tempo mark and
>
> (make-music
> 'ContextSpeccedMusic
> 'context-type
> 'Score
> 'element
> (make-music
> 'PropertySet
> 'value
> (ly:make-moment 30)
> 'symbol
> 'tempoWholesPerMinute))
>
> is what makes midi tempo work (it basically sets Score.tempoWholesPerMinute to
> a moment of duration metronome marking * metronome base length, so in our case
> 120 * 1/4 = 30.
>
> So what you need to do to get non integral is to manually create the first
> thing:
>
> {
> #(make-music
> 'TempoChangeEvent
> 'metronome-count
> 72.4
> 'tempo-unit
> (ly:make-duration 2)
> 'text
> "Weird tempo")
> c
> }
>
> To get midi to work you’ll also need to do
>
> \score {
> {
> #(make-music
> 'TempoChangeEvent
> 'metronome-count
> 72.4
> 'tempo-unit
> (ly:make-duration 2)
> 'text
> "Weird tempo")
> \set Score.tempoWholesPerMinute = #(ly:make-moment (* 724/10 1/4))
> c
> }
> \layout { }
> \midi { }
> }
>
> If you do not what to do the conversion to rationals 72.4 → 724/10 yourself
> you can use (inexact->exact ...), but keep in mind that this will include
> rounding errors:
>
> (inexact->exact 72.4) -> 2547348539231437/35184372088832
>
> which is the representation of 72.4 with binary digits with machine precision
> (the denominator is 2^45).
>
> Cheers,
> Valentin
>
> Am Sonntag, 25. Juni 2023, 11:44:59 CEST schrieb Lib Lists:
> > Hello,
> >
> > I realised that Lilypond doesn't like it if the metronome value is a
> > non-integer. In the example below, assigning 7 to the voiceAmount
> > variable triggers a 'error: not an unsigned integer'. I tried to
> > construct the metronome number marking as a markup, but
Re: Metronome marking with non-integer value
Hello Lib,
this is a limitation of the Lilypond parser which implements the syntax
\tempo [text] [duration = ...]
Here it assumes that ... is an unsigned integer. This I think is not
unreasonable, if you tell a musician to play something in MM 72.4 he will
probably be a bit confused.
Anyway, the solution to the problem would be to simply not use this parser
feature. \tempo is only a parser feature and not a music function as a music
functions do not allow the 4 = 120 syntax and does not allow having two
arguments both of which can be optional but one being mandatory.
But in the end \tempo ... still evaluates to a music event, as you can see if
you do
\displayMusic \tempo "some text" 4 = 120
This creates two music events:
(make-music
'TempoChangeEvent
'metronome-count
120
'tempo-unit
(ly:make-duration 2)
'text
"some text")
is the event that is responsible for creating the tempo mark and
(make-music
'ContextSpeccedMusic
'context-type
'Score
'element
(make-music
'PropertySet
'value
(ly:make-moment 30)
'symbol
'tempoWholesPerMinute))
is what makes midi tempo work (it basically sets Score.tempoWholesPerMinute to
a moment of duration metronome marking * metronome base length, so in our case
120 * 1/4 = 30.
So what you need to do to get non integral is to manually create the first
thing:
{
#(make-music
'TempoChangeEvent
'metronome-count
72.4
'tempo-unit
(ly:make-duration 2)
'text
"Weird tempo")
c
}
To get midi to work you’ll also need to do
\score {
{
#(make-music
'TempoChangeEvent
'metronome-count
72.4
'tempo-unit
(ly:make-duration 2)
'text
"Weird tempo")
\set Score.tempoWholesPerMinute = #(ly:make-moment (* 724/10 1/4))
c
}
\layout { }
\midi { }
}
If you do not what to do the conversion to rationals 72.4 → 724/10 yourself
you can use (inexact->exact ...), but keep in mind that this will include
rounding errors:
(inexact->exact 72.4) -> 2547348539231437/35184372088832
which is the representation of 72.4 with binary digits with machine precision
(the denominator is 2^45).
Cheers,
Valentin
Am Sonntag, 25. Juni 2023, 11:44:59 CEST schrieb Lib Lists:
> Hello,
>
> I realised that Lilypond doesn't like it if the metronome value is a
> non-integer. In the example below, assigning 7 to the voiceAmount
> variable triggers a 'error: not an unsigned integer'. I tried to
> construct the metronome number marking as a markup, but without
> success.
>
> Any suggestions? The idea is to have the metronome markings values
> automatically generated, starting from 4 = 120 in the upper staff.
> Below both a M(non-)WE and the complete example
>
> Thank you in advance for any help!
>
> Cheers,
> Lib
>
> %%% MWE %%%
> \version "2.25.5"
> \score {
> \new Staff {
> \tempo 4 = #(* 1 (/ 120 7 ))
> { c' }
> }
> }
> %%%
>
>
> %%% COMPLETE EXAMPLE %%%
> \version "2.25.5"
>
> voiceAmount = 7
>
> \score {
> \new StaffGroup <<
> #@(map (lambda (i)
> #{
> \new Staff {
> \scaleDurations #(cons voiceAmount i) {
> \tempo 4 = #(* i (/ 120 voiceAmount ))
> \relative c'' \repeat unfold #i {{c c c c }} \bar "||"
> }
> }
> #})
> (iota voiceAmount voiceAmount -1))
>
>
> \layout {
> \context {
> \Score
> \remove Metronome_mark_engraver
> \cadenzaOn
> }
> \context {
> \Staff
> \remove Time_signature_engraver
> \consists Metronome_mark_engraver
> }
> }
> }
> %%%
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Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Metronome marking with non-integer value
Hello,
I realised that Lilypond doesn't like it if the metronome value is a
non-integer. In the example below, assigning 7 to the voiceAmount
variable triggers a 'error: not an unsigned integer'. I tried to
construct the metronome number marking as a markup, but without
success.
Any suggestions? The idea is to have the metronome markings values
automatically generated, starting from 4 = 120 in the upper staff.
Below both a M(non-)WE and the complete example
Thank you in advance for any help!
Cheers,
Lib
%%% MWE %%%
\version "2.25.5"
\score {
\new Staff {
\tempo 4 = #(* 1 (/ 120 7 ))
{ c' }
}
}
%%%
%%% COMPLETE EXAMPLE %%%
\version "2.25.5"
voiceAmount = 7
\score {
\new StaffGroup <<
#@(map (lambda (i)
#{
\new Staff {
\scaleDurations #(cons voiceAmount i) {
\tempo 4 = #(* i (/ 120 voiceAmount ))
\relative c'' \repeat unfold #i {{c c c c }} \bar "||"
}
}
#})
(iota voiceAmount voiceAmount -1))
>>
\layout {
\context {
\Score
\remove Metronome_mark_engraver
\cadenzaOn
}
\context {
\Staff
\remove Time_signature_engraver
\consists Metronome_mark_engraver
}
}
}
%%%
