Re: PianoPedalBracket.to-barline doesn't always work as expected
Hi Werner, >> Might I suggest that “to-barline” is potentially >> misleading/confusing…? > I suggest you file an issue. https://gitlab.com/lilypond/lilypond/-/issues/6709 Cheers, Kieren. __ My work day may look different than your work day. Please do not feel obligated to read or respond to this email outside of your normal working hours.
Re: PianoPedalBracket.to-barline doesn't always work as expected
Hi Mats, > Exactly the same feature might also be useful for hairpins and other spanner > types Indeed! I’ll be sure to make the issue I submit a general spanner issue… Best, Kieren. __ My work day may look different than your work day. Please do not feel obligated to read or respond to this email outside of your normal working hours.
Re: PianoPedalBracket.to-barline doesn't always work as expected
On 2024-04-12 12:05, Werner LEMBERG wrote:
Might I suggest that “to-barline” is potentially
misleading/confusing…?
On the other hand:
end-at-barline, for a pedal coded for release on a note **just
after** a barline, might be more clearly descriptive of the
current behaviour; and
extend-to-barline, for a pedal coded for release on a note
**just before** a barline, might be more suggestive of the
behaviour Maurits was expecting.
Is there any technical reason both of these different-but-related
properties can’t/shouldn’t be made available?
I suggest you file an issue.
Exactly the same feature might also be useful for hairpins and other
spanner types, for example when you want to typeset a diminuendo on the
last note of a piece, where the diminuendo ends at the final bar line.
Admittedly, the same result can be obtained by attaching the \! to an
empty chord after the final bar line, but it's still a bit weird syntax:
\version "2.24.3"
\fixed c' {
long piece, ending with
c1 \> | <> \!
\fine
}
Of course, in this specific example, I guess that the following is the
cleanest solution:
\fixed c' {
long piece, ending with
\endSpanners c1 \> |
\fine
}
The same idea of attaching something to an empty chord just after the
bar line is also applicable for the pedal bracket scenario discussed
earlier in this thread:
\score {
\new Staff {
\clef bass
\time 6/8
\relative c' {
c8 b a g e c |
\set Staff.pedalSustainStyle = #'mixed
\override Staff.PianoPedalBracket.to-barline = ##t
\repeat tremolo 12 { b,32\sustainOn b' } |
\repeat tremolo 12 { b,32 b' } | <>\sustainOff
c8 e f g a
}
}
}
However, I couldn't find a way to extend the use of \endSpanner to
provide the equivalent result. I would have expected to the following to
work, but it doesn't:
\score {
\new Staff {
\clef bass
\time 6/8
\relative c' {
c8 b a g e c |
\set Staff.pedalSustainStyle = #'mixed
\override Staff.PianoPedalBracket.to-barline = ##t
\endSpanners{
\repeat tremolo 12 { b,32\sustainOn b' } |
\repeat tremolo 12 { b,32 b' } } |
c8 d e f g a
}
}
}
/Mats
Re: PianoPedalBracket.to-barline doesn't always work as expected
> Might I suggest that “to-barline” is potentially > misleading/confusing…? > > On the other hand: > > end-at-barline, for a pedal coded for release on a note **just > after** a barline, might be more clearly descriptive of the > current behaviour; and > > extend-to-barline, for a pedal coded for release on a note > **just before** a barline, might be more suggestive of the > behaviour Maurits was expecting. > > Is there any technical reason both of these different-but-related > properties can’t/shouldn’t be made available? I suggest you file an issue. Werner
Re: PianoPedalBracket.to-barline doesn't always work as expected
Hi all, Might I suggest that “to-barline” is potentially misleading/confusing…? On the other hand: end-at-barline, for a pedal coded for release on a note **just after** a barline, might be more clearly descriptive of the current behaviour; and extend-to-barline, for a pedal coded for release on a note **just before** a barline, might be more suggestive of the behaviour Maurits was expecting. Is there any technical reason both of these different-but-related properties can’t/shouldn’t be made available? Cheers, Kieren. __ My work day may look different than your work day. Please do not feel obligated to read or respond to this email outside of your normal working hours.
Re: PianoPedalBracket.to-barline doesn't always work as expected
Hi Jean,
Of course you are right. Let me explain how I got to this to explain my
confusion.
My first attempt was to add it to the next note without using \override
Staff.PianoPedalBracket.to-barline = ##t (as I wasn't aware of it
existence at that point). What I discovered however is that when the
tremolo is the last bar of that system, the bracket is continued on the
next system. Example:
%%%
\score {
\new Staff {
\clef bass
\time 6/8
\relative c' {
c8 b a g e c |
\set Staff.pedalSustainStyle = #'mixed
\repeat tremolo 12 { b,32\sustainOn b' } |
\repeat tremolo 12 { b,32 b' } | \break
c8\sustainOff e f g a
}
}
}
%%
That is confusing because it means for the player that it is not
immediately obvious where to lift the sustain pedal. This lead to me
moving the \sustainOff back to the last note of the tremolo, and trying
to extend it to the end of the barline.
It is indeed the case that if you set it to the next note (the c8 in the
example) AND set \override Staff.PianoPedalBracket.to-barline = ##t, it
works as expected. To me it was not immediately obvious that this is the
correct solution. When trying to find a solution, I was surprised to
only find a reference to this type of solution on the mailing list in a
post of 2015, and it didn't feature the end of system situation. I
expected that this kind of issue would have come up more frequently.
Perhaps this solution might deserve a mention in the Pedal department of
the Lilypond documentation. Happy to contribute that mention.
cheers
Maurits
Op 10-04-2024 om 12:01 schreef Jean Abou Samra:
Le mardi 09 avril 2024 à 23:55 +0200, Maurits Lamers via LilyPond user
discussion a écrit :
Hey all,
I encountered a situation where the PianoPedalBracket setting to-barline
doesn't always do what you'd expect. Given the following code, the pedal
bracket is not extended to the end of the bar:
%%%
\version "2.24.0"
\score {
\new Staff {
\clef bass
\time 6/8
\relative c' {
c8 b a g e c |
\set Staff.pedalSustainStyle = #'mixed
\override Staff.PianoPedalBracket.to-barline = ##t
\repeat tremolo 12 { b,32\sustainOn b' } |
\repeat tremolo 12 { b,32 b'\sustainOff } |
c8 e f g a
}
}
}
Correct syntax is
\version "2.24.0"
\score {
\new Staff {
\clef bass
\time 6/8
\relative c' {
c8 b a g e c |
\set Staff.pedalSustainStyle = #'mixed
\override Staff.PianoPedalBracket.to-barline = ##t
\repeat tremolo 12 { b,32\sustainOn b' } |
\repeat tremolo 12 { b,32 b' } |
c8\sustainOff e f g a
}
}
}
The \sustainOff command is placed on the note where you *release*
the pedal. And because LilyPond uses post-fix syntax, it comes just
*after* that note.
Best,
Jean
Re: PianoPedalBracket.to-barline doesn't always work as expected
Le mardi 09 avril 2024 à 23:55 +0200, Maurits Lamers via LilyPond user
discussion a écrit :
> Hey all,
>
> I encountered a situation where the PianoPedalBracket setting to-barline
> doesn't always do what you'd expect. Given the following code, the pedal
> bracket is not extended to the end of the bar:
>
> %%%
>
> \version "2.24.0"
> \score {
> \new Staff {
> \clef bass
> \time 6/8
> \relative c' {
> c8 b a g e c |
> \set Staff.pedalSustainStyle = #'mixed
> \override Staff.PianoPedalBracket.to-barline = ##t
> \repeat tremolo 12 { b,32\sustainOn b' } |
> \repeat tremolo 12 { b,32 b'\sustainOff } |
> c8 e f g a
> }
> }
> }
Correct syntax is
\version "2.24.0"
\score {
\new Staff {
\clef bass
\time 6/8
\relative c' {
c8 b a g e c |
\set Staff.pedalSustainStyle = #'mixed
\override Staff.PianoPedalBracket.to-barline = ##t
\repeat tremolo 12 { b,32\sustainOn b' } |
\repeat tremolo 12 { b,32 b' } |
c8\sustainOff e f g a
}
}
}
The \sustainOff command is placed on the note where you *release*
the pedal. And because LilyPond uses post-fix syntax, it comes just
*after* that note.
Best,
Jean
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Re: PianoPedalBracket.to-barline doesn't always work as expected
Hi Aaron, Yes it does. It is just unexpected that this would be necessary. cheers Maurits Op 10-04-2024 om 00:12 schreef Aaron Hill: Does the empty chord construct help? <>\sustainOff (I'm away from my normal environment, so I cannot test this locally to confirm.) -- Aaron Hill
Re: PianoPedalBracket.to-barline doesn't always work as expected
On 2024-04-09 2:55 pm, Maurits Lamers via LilyPond user discussion
wrote:
Only when the \sustainOff is placed outside of the tremolo, the bracket
extends to the barline:
%%%
\version "2.24.0"
\score {
\new Staff {
\clef bass
\time 6/8
\relative c' {
c8 b a g e c |
\set Staff.pedalSustainStyle = #'mixed
\override Staff.PianoPedalBracket.to-barline = ##t
\repeat tremolo 12 { b,32\sustainOn b' } |
\repeat tremolo 12 { b,32 b' } \sustainOff |
c8 e f g a
}
}
}
%%%
However, this leads to Lilypond complaining about an unattached
SustainEvent. Is this a bug?
Does the empty chord construct help?
<>\sustainOff
(I'm away from my normal environment, so I cannot test this locally to
confirm.)
-- Aaron Hill
PianoPedalBracket.to-barline doesn't always work as expected
Hey all,
I encountered a situation where the PianoPedalBracket setting to-barline
doesn't always do what you'd expect. Given the following code, the pedal
bracket is not extended to the end of the bar:
%%%
\version "2.24.0"
\score {
\new Staff {
\clef bass
\time 6/8
\relative c' {
c8 b a g e c |
\set Staff.pedalSustainStyle = #'mixed
\override Staff.PianoPedalBracket.to-barline = ##t
\repeat tremolo 12 { b,32\sustainOn b' } |
\repeat tremolo 12 { b,32 b'\sustainOff } |
c8 e f g a
}
}
}
%%%
Only when the \sustainOff is placed outside of the tremolo, the bracket
extends to the barline:
%%%
\version "2.24.0"
\score {
\new Staff {
\clef bass
\time 6/8
\relative c' {
c8 b a g e c |
\set Staff.pedalSustainStyle = #'mixed
\override Staff.PianoPedalBracket.to-barline = ##t
\repeat tremolo 12 { b,32\sustainOn b' } |
\repeat tremolo 12 { b,32 b' } \sustainOff |
c8 e f g a
}
}
}
%%%
However, this leads to Lilypond complaining about an unattached
SustainEvent. Is this a bug?
cheers
Maurits
