Re: Ties across voices; tried two methods

[Charlie Ma]

I just joined this group and have learned so much already. First time
answering. Hope this is right (works for me anyway.)

Butter Cream:
for the first tie put the first b-flat in the same "voice."
for the 2nd tie use \repeatTie.

\repeat volta 2 {
4 8 ~  r8  << { bes4~ } \\ { s4 } >> |
\alternative {
{ << { bes8 g4 g8~ g2 } \\ { 2 2 } >> | 4 r r2
| }
{ << { bes'8\repeatTie g4 g8~ g2 } \\ { 2 2 } >> | 4 r r2 | }
}
}

[image: image.png]

RE: Ties across voices; tried two methods

[Mark Stephen Mrotek]

Welcome!

 

From: Butter Cream  
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 4:29 PM
To: Leo Correia de Verdier ; Mark Stephen 
Mrotek 
Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Ties across voices; tried two methods

 

Thank you! I will implement your suggestions.

 

Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S20 FE 5G, an AT 5G smartphone
Get Outlook for Android <https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg> 

  _  

From: Leo Correia de Verdier mailto:leo.correia.de.verd...@gmail.com> >
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 7:21:29 PM
To: Mark Stephen Mrotek mailto:carsonm...@ca.rr.com> >
Cc: Butter Cream mailto:but...@inversityinc.com> >; 
lilypond-user@gnu.org <mailto:lilypond-user@gnu.org>  mailto:lilypond-user@gnu.org> >
Subject: Re: Ties across voices; tried two methods 

 

Also: your tie needs to end in the same voice it started. \new Voice and the 
<<\\>> construct both create other voices. If you remove \new Voice = “melody” 
from your first attempt it will work, as the last note of the tie is then in 
the same voice as the first. 

 

25 jan. 2024 kl. 00:37 skrev Mark Stephen Mrotek mailto:carsonm...@ca.rr.com> >:

 

Butter,

 

Use
\repeatTie

See
https://lilypond.org/doc/v2.22/Documentation/notation/long-repeats#normal-repeats

 

Mark

 

From: lilypond-user-bounces+carsonmark=ca.rr@gnu.org 
<mailto:lilypond-user-bounces+carsonmark=ca.rr@gnu.org>  
mailto:lilypond-user-bounces+carsonmark=ca.rr@gnu.org> > On Behalf Of 
Butter Cream
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 1:29 PM
To: lilypond-user@gnu.org <mailto:lilypond-user@gnu.org> 
Subject: Ties across voices; tried two methods

 

Hi ponders, I have a piece of music with alternative ending. The last measure 
prior to the alternative is a single voice has a tied note to both endings. I'v 
e tried two methods but both methods produce similar error: {with no tie} Any 
help would be appreciated.

 

*.ly:100:42: warning: unterminated tie

4 8 ~ 4 r8 bes

 ~ | % m19

 

[16][16]

 

 

I've tried both these methods: 

4 8 ~ 4 r8 bes~ | % m19   <-Last measure single voice

  } <- end of repeat Volta 2

  \alternative {

% method one using \new Voice 

 { \new Voice = "melody" {

<< { \voiceOne bes8 g4 g8~ g2 }

   \new Voice { \voiceTwo 2 2 }

>> \oneVoice

} | 4 r r2 | % m

   }

{ { \new Voice = "melody" {

<< { \voiceOne bes'8 g4 g8~ g2 }

   \new Voice { \voiceTwo 2 2 }

>> \oneVoice

} | % m

   } 4 r r2 | }

  }

  }

 

\alternative {

% method two using \\

  { << { bes8 g4 g8~ g2 } \\ { 2 2 } >> | 4 r r2 | }

  { << { bes8 g4 g8~ g2 } \\ { 2 2 } >> | 4 r r2 | }

 }

 

produces this. with notes not tied.



 

Thank you.

Re: Ties across voices; tried two methods

[Butter Cream]

Thank you! I will implement your suggestions.

Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S20 FE 5G, an AT 5G smartphone
Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg>

From: Leo Correia de Verdier 
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 7:21:29 PM
To: Mark Stephen Mrotek 
Cc: Butter Cream ; lilypond-user@gnu.org 

Subject: Re: Ties across voices; tried two methods

Also: your tie needs to end in the same voice it started. \new Voice and the 
<<\\>> construct both create other voices. If you remove \new Voice = “melody” 
from your first attempt it will work, as the last note of the tie is then in 
the same voice as the first.

25 jan. 2024 kl. 00:37 skrev Mark Stephen Mrotek :



Butter,



Use
\repeatTie

See
https://lilypond.org/doc/v2.22/Documentation/notation/long-repeats#normal-repeats



Mark



From: lilypond-user-bounces+carsonmark=ca.rr@gnu.org 
 On Behalf Of Butter Cream
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 1:29 PM
To: lilypond-user@gnu.org
Subject: Ties across voices; tried two methods



Hi ponders, I have a piece of music with alternative ending. The last measure 
prior to the alternative is a single voice has a tied note to both endings. I'v 
e tried two methods but both methods produce similar error: {with no tie} Any 
help would be appreciated.



*.ly:100:42: warning: unterminated tie

4 8 ~ 4 r8 bes

 ~ | % m19



[16][16]





I've tried both these methods:

4 8 ~ 4 r8 bes~ | % m19   <-Last measure single voice

  } <- end of repeat Volta 2

  \alternative {

% method one using \new Voice

 { \new Voice = "melody" {

<< { \voiceOne bes8 g4 g8~ g2 }

   \new Voice { \voiceTwo 2 2 }

>> \oneVoice

} | 4 r r2 | % m

   }

{ { \new Voice = "melody" {

<< { \voiceOne bes'8 g4 g8~ g2 }

   \new Voice { \voiceTwo 2 2 }

>> \oneVoice

} | % m

   } 4 r r2 | }

  }

  }



\alternative {

% method two using \\

  { << { bes8 g4 g8~ g2 } \\ { 2 2 } >> | 4 r r2 | }

  { << { bes8 g4 g8~ g2 } \\ { 2 2 } >> | 4 r r2 | }

 }



produces this. with notes not tied.





Thank you.

Re: Ties across voices; tried two methods

[Leo Correia de Verdier]

Also: your tie needs to end in the same voice it started. \new Voice and the 
<<\\>> construct both create other voices. If you remove \new Voice = “melody” 
from your first attempt it will work, as the last note of the tie is then in 
the same voice as the first. 

> 25 jan. 2024 kl. 00:37 skrev Mark Stephen Mrotek :
> 
> 
> Butter,
>  
> Use
> \repeatTie
> See
> https://lilypond.org/doc/v2.22/Documentation/notation/long-repeats#normal-repeats
>  
> Mark
>  
> From: lilypond-user-bounces+carsonmark=ca.rr@gnu.org 
>  On Behalf Of Butter Cream
> Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 1:29 PM
> To: lilypond-user@gnu.org
> Subject: Ties across voices; tried two methods
>  
> Hi ponders, I have a piece of music with alternative ending. The last measure 
> prior to the alternative is a single voice has a tied note to both endings. 
> I'v e tried two methods but both methods produce similar error: {with no tie} 
> Any help would be appreciated.
>  
> *.ly:100:42: warning: unterminated tie
> 4 8 ~ 4 r8 bes
>  ~ | % m19
>  
> [16][16]
>  
>  
> I've tried both these methods: 
> 4 8 ~ 4 r8 bes~ | % m19   <-Last measure single 
> voice
>   } <- end of repeat Volta 2
>   \alternative {
> % method one using \new Voice 
>  { \new Voice = "melody" {
> << { \voiceOne bes8 g4 g8~ g2 }
>\new Voice { \voiceTwo 2 2 }
> >> \oneVoice
> } | 4 r r2 | % m
>}
> { { \new Voice = "melody" {
> << { \voiceOne bes'8 g4 g8~ g2 }
>\new Voice { \voiceTwo 2 2 }
> >> \oneVoice
> } | % m
>} 4 r r2 | }
>   }
>   }
>  
> \alternative {
> % method two using \\
>   { << { bes8 g4 g8~ g2 } \\ { 2 2 } >> | 4 r r2 | }
>   { << { bes8 g4 g8~ g2 } \\ { 2 2 } >> | 4 r r2 | }
>  }
>  
> produces this. with notes not tied.
> 
>  
> Thank you.

RE: Ties across voices; tried two methods

[Mark Stephen Mrotek]

Butter,

 

Use
\repeatTie

See
https://lilypond.org/doc/v2.22/Documentation/notation/long-repeats#normal-re
peats

 

Mark

 

From: lilypond-user-bounces+carsonmark=ca.rr@gnu.org
 On Behalf Of Butter
Cream
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 1:29 PM
To: lilypond-user@gnu.org
Subject: Ties across voices; tried two methods

 

Hi ponders, I have a piece of music with alternative ending. The last
measure prior to the alternative is a single voice has a tied note to both
endings. I'v e tried two methods but both methods produce similar error:
{with no tie} Any help would be appreciated.

 

*.ly:100:42: warning: unterminated tie

4 8 ~ 4 r8 bes

 ~ | % m19

 

[16][16]

 

 

I've tried both these methods: 

4 8 ~ 4 r8 bes~ | % m19   <-Last measure single
voice

  } <- end of repeat Volta 2

  \alternative {

% method one using \new Voice 

 { \new Voice = "melody" {

<< { \voiceOne bes8 g4 g8~ g2 }

   \new Voice { \voiceTwo 2 2 }

>> \oneVoice

} | 4 r r2 | % m

   }

{ { \new Voice = "melody" {

<< { \voiceOne bes'8 g4 g8~ g2 }

   \new Voice { \voiceTwo 2 2 }

>> \oneVoice

} | % m

   } 4 r r2 | }

  }

  }

 

\alternative {

% method two using \\

  { << { bes8 g4 g8~ g2 } \\ { 2 2 } >> | 4 r r2 | }

  { << { bes8 g4 g8~ g2 } \\ { 2 2 } >> | 4 r r2 | }

 }

 

produces this. with notes not tied.



 

Thank you.



image001.png
Description: Binary data

Re: Ties across voices

[Karlin High]

On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 12:03 PM, Shachar Shemesh  wrote:
> I will point out that the documentation for those is somewhat lean.

> Maybe it's a good idea to amend the documentation to say that it is possible
> to create ties across voices.

You just might be the best-qualified person to write such an amendment.



"A formal patch to the source code is not required; we can take care
of the technical details."

Writing an email and providing a documentation reference is all it
takes to get started.
-- 
Karlin High
Missouri, USA

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Re: Ties across voices

[Shachar Shemesh]

  
  
On 17/06/18 21:14, Simon Albrecht
  wrote:

I moved
  Tie_performer along, since you were talking about the importance
  of accurate MIDI for your use case. I don’t use MIDI (or hardly
  ever) so I can’t test reasonably, but it should work, I imagine.
  
  

It does. Thank you.

I will point out that the documentation for those is somewhat
lean.

Anyways, this solution is both correct and produces a clean source
code. Definitely the best one.

Maybe it's a good idea to amend the documentation to say that it is
possible to create ties across voices.

Shachar
  


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Re: Ties across voices

[David Kastrup]

"Phil Holmes"  writes:

> - Original Message - 
> From: "Carl Sorensen" 
> To: "Simon Albrecht" ; "Shachar Shemesh"
> ; 
> Sent: Monday, June 18, 2018 4:52 PM
> Subject: Re: Ties across voices
>
>
>>
>>
>> On 6/17/18, 12:14 PM, "Simon Albrecht"  wrote:
>>
>>On 16.06.2018 20:41, Shachar Shemesh wrote:
>>> The Tie won't tie between the voices and the chord past the voices.
>>
>>It seems to work if you move the Tie_engraver from Voice to Staff
>> level:
>>
>>I moved Tie_performer along, since you were talking about the
>> importance
>>of accurate MIDI for your use case. I don’t use MIDI (or hardly
>> ever) so
>>I can’t test reasonably, but it should work, I imagine.
>>
>> This looks like the right answer, and one that maybe ought to be
>> documented in a docs snippet.  Lots of people use the LSR trick of
>> hidden notes, when a more straightforward approach is to move the
>> Tie_engraver.
>>
>> I wonder if having the Tie_engraver be in the Staff ought to be the
>> default?  Can anyone see negatives to having it be in the Staff?
>
> If it means ties will tie equal pitch notes in, say, voiceOne with
> others in voiceTwo, both on the same stave, it seems like an excellent
> change.

tieWaitForNote would work worse in several situations.  So would other
things like a choir unison note held over a bar.

-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: Ties across voices

[Phil Holmes]

- Original Message - 
From: "Carl Sorensen" 
To: "Simon Albrecht" ; "Shachar Shemesh" 
; 

Sent: Monday, June 18, 2018 4:52 PM
Subject: Re: Ties across voices





On 6/17/18, 12:14 PM, "Simon Albrecht"  wrote:

   On 16.06.2018 20:41, Shachar Shemesh wrote:
   > The Tie won't tie between the voices and the chord past the voices.

   It seems to work if you move the Tie_engraver from Voice to Staff 
level:


   I moved Tie_performer along, since you were talking about the 
importance
   of accurate MIDI for your use case. I don’t use MIDI (or hardly ever) 
so

   I can’t test reasonably, but it should work, I imagine.

This looks like the right answer, and one that maybe ought to be 
documented in a docs snippet.  Lots of people use the LSR trick of hidden 
notes, when a more straightforward approach is to move the Tie_engraver.


I wonder if having the Tie_engraver be in the Staff ought to be the 
default?  Can anyone see negatives to having it be in the Staff?


Thanks,

Carl



If it means ties will tie equal pitch notes in, say, voiceOne with others in 
voiceTwo, both on the same stave, it seems like an excellent change.


--
Phil Holmes 



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Re: Ties across voices

[Carl Sorensen]

On 6/17/18, 12:14 PM, "Simon Albrecht"  wrote:

On 16.06.2018 20:41, Shachar Shemesh wrote:
> The Tie won't tie between the voices and the chord past the voices.

It seems to work if you move the Tie_engraver from Voice to Staff level:

I moved Tie_performer along, since you were talking about the importance 
of accurate MIDI for your use case. I don’t use MIDI (or hardly ever) so 
I can’t test reasonably, but it should work, I imagine.

This looks like the right answer, and one that maybe ought to be documented in 
a docs snippet.  Lots of people use the LSR trick of hidden notes, when a more 
straightforward approach is to move the Tie_engraver.

I wonder if having the Tie_engraver be in the Staff ought to be the default?  
Can anyone see negatives to having it be in the Staff?

Thanks,

Carl


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Re: Ties across voices

[Timothy Lanfear]

On 17/06/18 19:03, Shachar Shemesh wrote:

On 17/06/18 07:51, Carl Sorensen wrote:

This turns out to be a quite challenging snippet to engrave.

I'm sorry, it seems that my challenges are not over :-(

You can read more about using hidden notes to make ties span voices here:
It is an interesting technique, but it has one major problem: The 
actual notes are wrong. The hidden note isn't rendered to the output, 
but it is present and played.




Here's another solution without any hidden notes.

\version "2.19.81"

\relative c'' {
  \time 2/4 \key aes\major
  \mergeDifferentlyDottedOn
  <<
    \new Voice {
  \voiceOne
  g!16 8. ges16 8 des16 ~ |
  \once \override Flag.style=#'no-flag \once \stemDown des8 s8
    }
    \new Voice {
  \voiceTwo
  g,!4 ges8. f16 ~ |
  f8 f'16 des
    }
  >>
  ees16 f aes, a |
}

--
Timothy Lanfear, Bristol, UK.


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Re: Ties across voices

[Simon Albrecht]

PS. It’s helpful if you include a complete, compilable example in your 
requests, including a \version statement so we know which version you 
are using. See .


Best, Simon


On 16.06.2018 20:41, Shachar Shemesh wrote:


I'm attaching a scan from "The Easy Winners" by Scott Joplin, the way 
it was published in 1901.


I can't seem to get it to display the way I want.

(The key is des major, 2/4)

My first attempt:

  <<
    {g16 8.  ges16 8 des16~ | }
    \\
    {g,4   ges8.  f16~   | }
  >>
  8 f16 des ees f aes, a

That doesn't work. The Tie won't tie between the voices and the chord 
past the voices. Okay, let's put the second measure inside the voices:


  <<
    {g16 8.  ges16 8 des16~ | des8 f16 des ees f aes, a |}
    \\
    {g4   ges8.   f16~    | f8 }
  >>

That's is better, in that at least the music being described is the 
right music. Still, it would be nice if the D and F were combined into 
a single chord. I guess that's what \partcombine is for, right?


  \partcombine
    \relative {g'16 8.  ges16 8 des16~ | des8 f16 des 
ees f aes, a |}

    \relative {g'4   ges8. f16~ | f8 }

Well, the good news is that the two notes are combined into a single 
chord. The bad news is that beaming is now completely off, and we get 
a "Solo" heading above the end of the measure.


The second problem is easy to solve. We add \set Staff.soloText = #" "

The first one, however, is not so easy. We can try adding explicit 
beaming, but then the chords disconnect again.


So far, I've done a lot of settings I don't want, just to have the 
final result look exactly like it did when I started.


Is what I'm trying to do possible?

Thank you for your help,

Shachar



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Re: Ties across voices

[Simon Albrecht]

On 16.06.2018 20:41, Shachar Shemesh wrote:


I'm attaching a scan from "The Easy Winners" by Scott Joplin, the way 
it was published in 1901.


I can't seem to get it to display the way I want.


[…]

The Tie won't tie between the voices and the chord past the voices.


It seems to work if you move the Tie_engraver from Voice to Staff level:

%
\version "2.19.80"

\layout {
  \context {
    \Staff
    \consists Tie_engraver
    \consists Tie_performer
  }
  \context {
    \Voice
    \remove Tie_engraver
    \remove Tie_performer
  }
}

\relative c'' {
  \time 2/4
  \key des \major
  \mergeDifferentlyDottedOn
  <<
    {
  g16 8.  ges16 8 des16~ |
    }
    \\
    {
  g,4 ges8. f16~
    }
  >>
  8 f'16 des ees f aes, a |
}


I moved Tie_performer along, since you were talking about the importance 
of accurate MIDI for your use case. I don’t use MIDI (or hardly ever) so 
I can’t test reasonably, but it should work, I imagine.


Best, Simon

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Re: Ties across voices

[Shachar Shemesh]

  
  
On 17/06/18 07:51, Carl Sorensen wrote:


  
This turns out to be a quite challenging snippet to engrave.

I'm sorry, it seems that my challenges are not over :-(

  You can read more about using hidden notes to make ties span voices here:


It is an interesting technique, but it has one major problem: The
actual notes are wrong. The hidden note isn't rendered to the
output, but it is present and played.

Worse, one of the reasons I took this on was to learn the piece
using PianoBooster (http://pianobooster.sourceforge.net/). This
means that even if we manage to "hide" the note from the midi as
well (i.e. - by muting its volume), it is still there, and
pianobooster will still expect you to play it.

I promise I am not trying to be difficult. If there is no way to do
what I want, I'll just settle for the sub-optimal rendering I
currently have
(https://github.com/MutopiaProject/MutopiaProject/pull/1000).

Thank you all for your commitment :-)
Shachar
  


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Re: Ties across voices

[Carl Sorensen]

From: Pierre Perol-Schneider 
Date: Saturday, June 16, 2018 at 11:25 PM
To: Carl Sorensen 
Cc: Shachar Shemesh , "lilypond-user@gnu.org" 

Subject: Re: Ties across voices

Hi Sachar, Hi Carl,

How about :

\relative c'' {
  \time 2/4 \key aes\major
  \mergeDifferentlyDottedOn
  <<
  {
g16 8.  ges16 8 des16~ |
\stemNeutral 8 f'16 des ees f aes, a |
  }
  \\
  {
g4 ges8. f16~ |
\once\hideNotes f4 s
  }
  >>
}

Yes, this works too.  Again, it is necessary to hide a note to make the tie 
move across voices.

This method is clearly more simple if you don’t need the parts separately 
(which is almost certainly the case in this piano music).

Thanks for sharing.

Carl

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Re: Ties across voices

[Pierre Perol-Schneider]

Hi Sachar, Hi Carl,

How about :

\relative c'' {
  \time 2/4 \key aes\major
  \mergeDifferentlyDottedOn
  <<
  {
g16 8.  ges16 8 des16~ |
\stemNeutral 8 f'16 des ees f aes, a |
  }
  \\
  {
g4 ges8. f16~ |
\once\hideNotes f4 s
  }
  >>
}

Cheers,
Pierre

2018-06-17 6:51 GMT+02:00 Carl Sorensen :

>
> This turns out to be a quite challenging snippet to engrave.
>
> Here's the first attempt:
>
> \version "2.18"
>
>  \partcombine
> \relative {\time 2/4 \key aes\major g'16 8.  ges16 8
> des16~ | des8 f16 des ees f aes, a |}
> \relative {\time 2/4 \key aes\major g'4
>  \mergeDifferentlyDottedOn  \partcombineApart   ges8.  f16~ |   f8 }
>
> As you can see, this preserves the tie, but doesn't start the second
> measure with a chord.
>
> Well, let's make it have a chord.
>
> \version "2.18"
>
>  \partcombine
> \relative {\time 2/4 \key aes\major g'16 8.  ges16 8
> des16~ | des8 f16 des ees f aes, a |}
> \relative {\time 2/4 \key aes\major g'4
>  \mergeDifferentlyDottedOn  \partcombineApart   ges8.  f16~ |
> \partcombineChords f8 }
>
> Now the tie goes away, and we get a warning message: "Unterminated tie"
>
> The problem is that the partcombiner makes four voices: "one", "two",
> "shared", and  "solo".  So the \partcombineApart music goes into voices
> "one" and "two", and the \partcombineChords music goes into voice "shared",
> and ties don't cross voices.  So that means you will have to create some
> hidden notes in the voice "shared", and start the tie from those notes.  In
> this case, it was fine to have the note heads, but I needed to hide the
> stem and the flag.
>
> \version "2.18"
>
>  <<
> \new Voice = "shared" \relative {s4 s8.  \once \override Stem.stencil
> = ##f  \once \override Flag.stencil = ##f 16~ |}
>  \partcombine
> \relative {\time 2/4 \key aes\major g'16 8.  ges16 8
> des16 | des8 f16 des ees f aes, a |}
> \relative {\time 2/4 \key aes\major g'4
>  \mergeDifferentlyDottedOn  \partcombineApart   ges8.  f16 |
> \partcombineChords f8 }
>  >>
>
> You can read more about using hidden notes to make ties span voices here:
>
> http://lsr.di.unimi.it/LSR/Item?id=8
>
> I hope this helps.
>
> Carl
>
>
>
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Re: Ties across voices

[Carl Sorensen]

This turns out to be a quite challenging snippet to engrave.

Here's the first attempt:

\version "2.18"
 
 \partcombine
\relative {\time 2/4 \key aes\major g'16 8.  ges16 8 des16~ 
| des8 f16 des ees f aes, a |}
\relative {\time 2/4 \key aes\major g'4 
\mergeDifferentlyDottedOn  \partcombineApart   ges8.  f16~ |   f8 }

As you can see, this preserves the tie, but doesn't start the second measure 
with a chord.

Well, let's make it have a chord.

\version "2.18"

 \partcombine
\relative {\time 2/4 \key aes\major g'16 8.  ges16 8 des16~ 
| des8 f16 des ees f aes, a |}
\relative {\time 2/4 \key aes\major g'4 
\mergeDifferentlyDottedOn  \partcombineApart   ges8.  f16~ |  
\partcombineChords f8 }
 
Now the tie goes away, and we get a warning message: "Unterminated tie"

The problem is that the partcombiner makes four voices: "one", "two", "shared", 
and  "solo".  So the \partcombineApart music goes into voices "one" and "two", 
and the \partcombineChords music goes into voice "shared", and ties don't cross 
voices.  So that means you will have to create some hidden notes in the voice 
"shared", and start the tie from those notes.  In this case, it was fine to 
have the note heads, but I needed to hide the stem and the flag.

\version "2.18"
 
 <<
\new Voice = "shared" \relative {s4 s8.  \once \override Stem.stencil = ##f 
 \once \override Flag.stencil = ##f 16~ |}
 \partcombine
\relative {\time 2/4 \key aes\major g'16 8.  ges16 8 des16 
| des8 f16 des ees f aes, a |}
\relative {\time 2/4 \key aes\major g'4 
\mergeDifferentlyDottedOn  \partcombineApart   ges8.  f16 |  
\partcombineChords f8 }
 >>

You can read more about using hidden notes to make ties span voices here:

http://lsr.di.unimi.it/LSR/Item?id=8

I hope this helps.

Carl



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Re: Ties across voices

[Marc Hohl]

Am 13.12.2016 um 11:11 schrieb Peter Toye:

Urs, Andrew, Simon

Thank you all very much for the solutions. I now have 4 ways to create
what I need!

My next task - to get ties across enharmonics, which I gather is
impossible and I have to use slurs.


There is a regtest for this, so it looks as if lilypond accepts ties 
between enharmonic notes at least since 2.19.16.


\version "2.19.16"

\header { texidoc = "
LilyPond should accept a tie between notes which are
enharmonically identical.
" }

\score
{
  {
\time 3/4
\repeat unfold 3 {
  cis'4~ des'
}
  }
  \layout { ragged-right = ##t }
  %\midi {}
}


HTH,

Marc


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Re: Ties across voices

[Urs Liska]

Am 13.12.2016 um 11:11 schrieb Peter Toye:
> Re: Ties across voices Urs, Andrew, Simon
>
> Thank you all very much for the solutions. I now have 4 ways to create
> what I need!
>
> My next task - to get ties across enharmonics, which I gather is
> impossible and I have to use slurs.

{
  cis' ~ des'
}

is possible, I assume that's new in 2.19

Best
Urs

>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Peter
> mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
> www.ptoye.com <http://www.ptoye.com>
>
> -
> Tuesday, December 13, 2016, 9:04:39 AM, you wrote:
>
> *> Am 12.12.2016 um 12:24 schrieb Peter Toye:
>
> > So this is "my" solution. Comments inline
>
> >>\relative c' {
> >>  <<
>
> >>{
> >>  \once \hide Accidental \once \hide NoteHead \once \hide Stem
>
> > You need an additional \once \stemDown in my
> > version as well. The way you create the polyphonic section (separating
> > the voices with \\) will implicitly make the first voice \voiceOne and
> > the other \voiceTwo.
> > So what your example does is: create a third with stems up and hide it.
> > But as it is stems up the note will be doubled. If you make that
> > stemDown the visible and the hidden note heads will merge.
>
> >>  <fs' a>4 ~ 8  a' g
> >>}
> >>\\
> >>{
> >>  <a,~ c~ fs a>44 
> >>}
> >>  >>
> >>  r4
> >>  <<
> >>{
> >> 4  <fs' a>8  a' g
> >>}
> >>\\
> >>{  
> >> \once \hide Accidental \once \hide NoteHead \once \hide Stem
> >>  <a, c>4~  4 
> >>}
> >>  >>
> >>  r4
> >>}
>
>
> *

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Re: Ties across voices

[Peter Toye]

Urs, Andrew, Simon

Thank you all very much for the solutions. I now have 4 ways to create what I 
need!

My next task - to get ties across enharmonics, which I gather is impossible and 
I have to use slurs.


Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Tuesday, December 13, 2016, 9:04:39 AM, you wrote:

> Am 12.12.2016 um 12:24 schrieb Peter Toye:

> So this is "my" solution. Comments inline

>>\relative c' {
>>  <<

>>{
>>  \once \hide Accidental \once \hide NoteHead \once \hide Stem

> You need an additional \once \stemDown in my
> version as well. The way you create the polyphonic section (separating
> the voices with \\) will implicitly make the first voice \voiceOne and
> the other \voiceTwo.
> So what your example does is: create a third with stems up and hide it.
> But as it is stems up the note will be doubled. If you make that
> stemDown the visible and the hidden note heads will merge.

>>  4 ~ 8  a' g
>>}
>>\\
>>{
>>  44 
>>}
>>  >>
>>  r4
>>  <<
>>{
>> 4  8  a' g
>>}
>>\\
>>{  
>> \once \hide Accidental \once \hide NoteHead \once \hide Stem
>>  4~  4 
>>}
>>  >>
>>  r4
>>}

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Re: Ties across voices

[Urs Liska]

Am 12.12.2016 um 12:24 schrieb Peter Toye:

So this is "my" solution. Comments inline

>\relative c' {
>  <<
> 
>{
>  \once \hide Accidental \once \hide NoteHead \once \hide Stem

You need an additional \once \stemDown in my
version as well. The way you create the polyphonic section (separating
the voices with \\) will implicitly make the first voice \voiceOne and
the other \voiceTwo.
So what your example does is: create a third with stems up and hide it.
But as it is stems up the note will be doubled. If you make that
stemDown the visible and the hidden note heads will merge.

>  4 ~ 8  a' g
>}
>\\
>{
>  44 
>}
>  >>
>  r4
>  <<
>{
> 4  8  a' g
>}
>\\
>{  
> \once \hide Accidental \once \hide NoteHead \once \hide Stem
>  4~  4 
>}
>  >>
>  r4
>}
> 


-- 
Urs Liska
www.openlilylib.org



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Re: Ties across voices

[Urs Liska]

Am 12. Dezember 2016 13:55:39 MEZ, schrieb Alexander Kobel :
>On 2016-12-12 13:42, Urs Liska wrote:
>> [...]
 BTW: Has this warning been disabled somewhere in the unstable
>>> versions?
 From 2.19.49, I get no complaint even for
   << { \stemDown b' } \\ a' >>
 which clearly collides...
>>
>> I think in this example there actually is no colliding-note-column
>clash because the two note heads don't share the nite column.
>> This is different from visual collisions that should of course be
>avoided.
>
>Hm. But does this mean that a "colliding-note-column clash" is merely a
>
>self-assertion for Lily that it properly positions the heads of a
>chord, 
>or a check that applies when a user tweaks the position of a specific 
>head? Is that really intended?

I think it had been intended as a warning to the user because two notes in 
different voices on the same note column are an indication that there may be 
something wrong with the voicing.

>
>And how could I actually produce such a collision? Even {  } 
>doesn't issue a warning...

{
  << { \voiceOne c'' } \\ { \voiceOne  c'} >>
}

would probably cause that warning. But for some reason this warning has been 
removed recently. (So check with 2.18)

Best
Urs
>
>
>Cheers,
>Alexander

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Re: Ties across voices

[Alexander Kobel]

On 2016-12-12 13:42, Urs Liska wrote:

[...]

BTW: Has this warning been disabled somewhere in the unstable

versions?

From 2.19.49, I get no complaint even for
  << { \stemDown b' } \\ a' >>
which clearly collides...


I think in this example there actually is no colliding-note-column clash 
because the two note heads don't share the nite column.
This is different from visual collisions that should of course be avoided.


Hm. But does this mean that a "colliding-note-column clash" is merely a 
self-assertion for Lily that it properly positions the heads of a chord, 
or a check that applies when a user tweaks the position of a specific 
head? Is that really intended?


And how could I actually produce such a collision? Even {  } 
doesn't issue a warning...



Cheers,
Alexander

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Re: Ties across voices

[Simon Albrecht]

On 11.12.2016 19:01, Peter Toye wrote:
Ties across voices I want to engrave some piano music which includes 
the attached fragment. As I understand it I need a single voice for 
the first chord, but two for the second. But the ties can't extend 
across voices.


This is exactly the situation for which \hideNotes exists. The following 
works perfectly:


\version "2.18.2"
\language "english"
\score {
  <<
\clef "treble"
{
  \oneVoice
  4
  \voiceOne
  8[  a'' g'']
}
\\
{
  \voiceTwo
  \hideNotes
  \override NoteColumn.ignore-collision = ##t
  4 _~
  \unHideNotes
  \override NoteColumn.ignore-collision = ##f
   
}
  >>
}

Best, Simon

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Re: Ties across voices

[Urs Liska]

Am 12. Dezember 2016 13:27:45 MEZ, schrieb Andrew Bernard 
:
>​Hi All,​
>
>
>
>On 12 December 2016 at 23:24, Alexander Kobel 
>wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> On 2016-12-12 12:24, Peter Toye wrote:
>>
>>> Andrew, Urs,
>>>
>>> Thanks both for the ideas. It's interesting.
>>>
>>> Andrew's method works but gives a warning about clashing note
>columns
>>> but the layout is fine.
>>>
>>
>> you can add a
>>   \once \override NoteColumn.ignore-collision = ##t
>> before \stemDown; this will suppress the warning.
>>
>> BTW: Has this warning been disabled somewhere in the unstable
>versions?
>> From 2.19.49, I get no complaint even for
>>   << { \stemDown b' } \\ a' >>
>> which clearly collides...

I think in this example there actually is no colliding-note-column clash 
because the two note heads don't share the nite column.
This is different from visual collisions that should of course be avoided.

>>
>>
>> ​
>I dont get any such warning in 2.19.52. Suits me fine. I use this
>technique
>daily. As far as I am concerned, it is not a clash (but perhaps
>lilypond
>once saw it that way.)

Well, actually this *is* a collision between two stems but you happen to *want* 
it.
My issue with this approach is that the correct result is somewhat arbitrary. 
If you should happen to change the notes so they are further apart or if you 
change the stylesheet to produce shorter stems you'll gave a gap - and must 
notice this yourself.
This us similar to the old approach to lengthen strms for cross-staff stems.

Urs

>
>Andrew
>​

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Re: Ties across voices

[Alexander Kobel]

Hi,

On 2016-12-12 13:27, Andrew Bernard wrote:

On 12 December 2016 at 23:24, Alexander Kobel > wrote:

BTW: Has this warning been disabled somewhere in the unstable
versions? From 2.19.49, I get no complaint even for
  << { \stemDown b' } \\ a' >>
which clearly collides...
​
I dont get any such warning in 2.19.52. Suits me fine. I use this
technique daily. As far as I am concerned, it is not a clash (but
perhaps lilypond once saw it that way.)


well, I agree in situations where no note heads clash into each other, 
and maybe even if the note heads are identical. But coalescing heads are 
an error more often than not...
At least, that's not beginner-friendly - people who are experienced 
enough to know when to use the technique on purpose should also be able 
to globally suppress the warning.



Cheers,
Alexander

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Re: Ties across voices

[Andrew Bernard]

​Hi All,​



On 12 December 2016 at 23:24, Alexander Kobel  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On 2016-12-12 12:24, Peter Toye wrote:
>
>> Andrew, Urs,
>>
>> Thanks both for the ideas. It's interesting.
>>
>> Andrew's method works but gives a warning about clashing note columns
>> but the layout is fine.
>>
>
> you can add a
>   \once \override NoteColumn.ignore-collision = ##t
> before \stemDown; this will suppress the warning.
>
> BTW: Has this warning been disabled somewhere in the unstable versions?
> From 2.19.49, I get no complaint even for
>   << { \stemDown b' } \\ a' >>
> which clearly collides...
>
>
> ​
I dont get any such warning in 2.19.52. Suits me fine. I use this technique
daily. As far as I am concerned, it is not a clash (but perhaps lilypond
once saw it that way.)

Andrew
​
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Re: Ties across voices

[Alexander Kobel]

Hi,

On 2016-12-12 12:24, Peter Toye wrote:

Andrew, Urs,

Thanks both for the ideas. It's interesting.

Andrew's method works but gives a warning about clashing note columns
but the layout is fine.


you can add a
  \once \override NoteColumn.ignore-collision = ##t
before \stemDown; this will suppress the warning.

BTW: Has this warning been disabled somewhere in the unstable versions? 
From 2.19.49, I get no complaint even for

  << { \stemDown b' } \\ a' >>
which clearly collides...


Cheers,
Alexander

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Re: Ties across voices

[Peter Toye]

Andrew, Urs,

Thanks both for the ideas. It's interesting. 

Andrew's method works but gives a warning about clashing note columns but the 
layout is fine. 

Urs' method gives two different results, depending on whether I put the 4-note 
chord in the 1st or 2nd voice. In the 1st voice the layout's OK but the stem 
points upwards, as you'd expect. In the second voice it tries puts two 
noteheads (one suppressed) so the tie's in the wrong place.

The snippet below shows the issues.

\version "2.18.2"
\language "english"
\score {
  {
\clef "treble"
<<
  {
\stemDown
4 ^~
\stemUp
8[  a'' g'']
  }
  \\
  {
4 _~
 
  }
>>
r4
\relative c' {
  <<

{
  \once \hide Accidental \once \hide NoteHead \once \hide Stem
  4 ~ 8  a' g 
}
\\
{
  44 
}
  >>
  r4
  <<
{
 4  8  a' g
}
\\
{  
 \once \hide Accidental \once \hide NoteHead \once \hide Stem
  4~  4  
}
  >>
  r4
}

  }
}


Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Monday, December 12, 2016, 10:10:50 AM, you wrote:


Hi Peter,

Use voices. Just turn the stem down for the first F and A.

\version "2.19.52"
\score {
  <<
{
  \stemDown
  4 ^~
  \stemUp
  8[  a'' g'']
}
\\
{
  4 _~
   
}
  >>
}

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Re: Ties across voices

[Andrew Bernard]

Hi Peter,

Use voices. Just turn the stem down for the first F and A.

\version "2.19.52"
\score {
  <<
{
  \stemDown
  4 ^~
  \stemUp
  8[  a'' g'']
}
\\
{
  4 _~
   
}
  >>
}

Andrew
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Re: Ties across voices

[Urs Liska]

You still need a workaround, which in the case of your example is not
all that ugly than in some other cases.

Basically you have to double one end of the ties with a hidden voice.
The good thing about your example is that this additional voice is
actually continuing from there .

So where the lower voice (going in crotchets) starts you should start it
one beat earlier and enter the ~ as \voiceTwo and \hide

NoteHead
Stem
Accidental

(Do not \omit them because you need the objects).

This should print correctly but add a warning about clashing note
columns (if LilyPond still does that). You may suppress that warning,
but I don't have the command available from memory.

HTH
Urs


Am 11.12.2016 um 19:01 schrieb Peter Toye:
> Ties across voices I want to engrave some piano music which includes
> the attached fragment. As I understand it I need a single voice for
> the first chord, but two for the second. But the ties can't extend
> across voices.
>
> I saw a thread about this in 2007, but I can't get it to work as other
> normal ties within voices don't work.
>
> Any pointers would be welcome.
>
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Peter
> mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
> www.ptoye.com 
>
>
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Re: Ties across voices

[Mike Solomon]

 On Nov 2, 2014, at 4:24 PM, Mark Stephen Mrotek carsonm...@ca.rr.com wrote:
 
 Hello,
  
 As far as I know, which is certainly minimal, ties cannot be input across 
 voices as in
 
 \new Voice \relative c' { \voiceOne }
 \new Voice \relative c' { \voiceTwo }
   .
  
 How could I achieve ties as in the attached example?
  
 Thank you for your kind attention.
  
 Mark

Try:

  \layout {
\context { \Voice \remove Tie_engraver }
\context { \Staff \consists Tie_engraver }
  }

Doesn’t always work perfectly…

Cheers,
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RE: Ties across voices

[Mark Stephen Mrotek]

Mike,

 

Thank you for your reply and the suggestion. I shall try it.

“Never let the perfect be the enemy of the good!”

 

Mark

 

From: Mike Solomon [mailto:m...@mikesolomon.org] 
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2014 6:43 AM
To: Mark Stephen Mrotek
Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Ties across voices

 

 

On Nov 2, 2014, at 4:24 PM, Mark Stephen Mrotek carsonm...@ca.rr.com wrote:

 

Hello,

 

As far as I know, which is certainly minimal, ties cannot be input across 
voices as in

 

\new Voice \relative c' { \voiceOne }

\new Voice \relative c' { \voiceTwo }

  .

 

How could I achieve ties as in the attached example?

 

Thank you for your kind attention.

 

Mark

 

Try:

 

  \layout {
\context { \Voice \remove Tie_engraver }
\context { \Staff \consists Tie_engraver }
  }

 

Doesn’t always work perfectly…

 

Cheers,

MS

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RE: Ties across voices

[Daniel Rosen]

 -Original Message-
 From: Nick Payne [mailto:nick.pa...@internode.on.net]
 Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2014 11:54 PM
 To: lilypond-user@gnu.org
 Subject: Re: Ties across voices
 
 On 31/03/14 10:56, Daniel Rosen wrote:
  Consider the example below:
 
  \version 2.19.3
 
  \new Staff 
 \new Voice \relative c'' { \voiceOne c4~ c d, c }
 \new Voice \relative c' { \voiceTwo c d8 q
  
  How can I tie the lower voice's c d to the upper voice's c d, c?
 
 You could use a third hidden voice:
 
 \version 2.19.3
 
 transOn = {
\override NoteColumn.ignore-collision = ##t
\override NoteHead.no-ledgers = ##t
\hide NoteHead
\hide Stem
\hide Flag
\hide Beam
\hide Dots
\hide Accidental
\hide TupletBracket
\hide TupletNumber
 }
 
 transOff = {
\revert NoteColumn.ignore-collision
\revert NoteHead.no-ledgers
\revert NoteHead.transparent
\revert Stem.transparent
\revert Beam.transparent
\revert Flag.transparent
\revert Dots.transparent
\revert Accidental.transparent
\revert TupletBracket.transparent
\revert TupletNumber.transparent
 }
 
 \new Staff 
\new Voice \relative c'' { \voiceOne c4~ c d, c }
\new Voice \relative c' { \voiceTwo c d8 q }
\new Voice \relative c' { \voiceThree \transOn s8 c_~ d^~ q }  
 

Aha! I was doing something similar to this without adding a third voice; the 
addition of \override NoteColumn.ignore-collision = ##t (I didn't even know 
that property existed) makes it work now:

\version 2.19.3
\new Staff 
   \new Voice \relative c'' {
 \voiceOne c4~ \oneVoice c d, c
   }
   \new Voice \relative c' {
 \voiceTwo c d8 q~
 \oneVoice \once \omit Stem \once \hideNotes
 \once \override NoteColumn.ignore-collision = ##t
 q4
   }


Thanks!

DR

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Re: Ties across voices

[Urs Liska]

Am 31.03.2014 05:54, schrieb Nick Payne:

On 31/03/14 10:56, Daniel Rosen wrote:

Consider the example below:

\version 2.19.3

\new Staff 
   \new Voice \relative c'' { \voiceOne c4~ c d, c }
   \new Voice \relative c' { \voiceTwo c d8 q

How can I tie the lower voice's c d to the upper voice's c d, c?


You could use a third hidden voice:


It has been a longstanding wish to have native support for cross-voice 
items such as slurs, ties, glissandi etc.

Or to have at least a nice blog post tutorial hint.
Or at least a ready-to-use snippet where one could point at.

Best
Urs



\version 2.19.3

transOn = {
   \override NoteColumn.ignore-collision = ##t
   \override NoteHead.no-ledgers = ##t
   \hide NoteHead
   \hide Stem
   \hide Flag
   \hide Beam
   \hide Dots
   \hide Accidental
   \hide TupletBracket
   \hide TupletNumber
}

transOff = {
   \revert NoteColumn.ignore-collision
   \revert NoteHead.no-ledgers
   \revert NoteHead.transparent
   \revert Stem.transparent
   \revert Beam.transparent
   \revert Flag.transparent
   \revert Dots.transparent
   \revert Accidental.transparent
   \revert TupletBracket.transparent
   \revert TupletNumber.transparent
}

\new Staff 
   \new Voice \relative c'' { \voiceOne c4~ c d, c }
   \new Voice \relative c' { \voiceTwo c d8 q }
   \new Voice \relative c' { \voiceThree \transOn s8 c_~ d^~ q }
 

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Re: Ties across voices

[Rutger Hofman]

On 03/31/2014 05:54 AM, Nick Payne wrote:

On 31/03/14 10:56, Daniel Rosen wrote:

Consider the example below:

\version 2.19.3

\new Staff 
   \new Voice \relative c'' { \voiceOne c4~ c d, c }
   \new Voice \relative c' { \voiceTwo c d8 q

How can I tie the lower voice's c d to the upper voice's c d, c?


You could use a third hidden voice:

\version 2.19.3

transOn = {
   \override NoteColumn.ignore-collision = ##t
   \override NoteHead.no-ledgers = ##t
   \hide NoteHead
   \hide Stem
   \hide Flag
   \hide Beam
   \hide Dots
   \hide Accidental
   \hide TupletBracket
   \hide TupletNumber
}

transOff = {
   \revert NoteColumn.ignore-collision
   \revert NoteHead.no-ledgers
   \revert NoteHead.transparent
   \revert Stem.transparent
   \revert Beam.transparent
   \revert Flag.transparent
   \revert Dots.transparent
   \revert Accidental.transparent
   \revert TupletBracket.transparent
   \revert TupletNumber.transparent
}

\new Staff 
   \new Voice \relative c'' { \voiceOne c4~ c d, c }
   \new Voice \relative c' { \voiceTwo c d8 q }
   \new Voice \relative c' { \voiceThree \transOn s8 c_~ d^~ q }
 


I use \hideNotes \unHideNotes in this case. Why is \transOn \transOff 
better?


Rutger



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Re: Ties across voices

[Urs Liska]

Am 31.03.2014 09:59, schrieb Rutger Hofman:

On 03/31/2014 05:54 AM, Nick Payne wrote:

On 31/03/14 10:56, Daniel Rosen wrote:

Consider the example below:

\version 2.19.3

\new Staff 
   \new Voice \relative c'' { \voiceOne c4~ c d, c }
   \new Voice \relative c' { \voiceTwo c d8 q

How can I tie the lower voice's c d to the upper voice's c d, c?


You could use a third hidden voice:

\version 2.19.3

transOn = {
   \override NoteColumn.ignore-collision = ##t
   \override NoteHead.no-ledgers = ##t
   \hide NoteHead
   \hide Stem
   \hide Flag
   \hide Beam
   \hide Dots
   \hide Accidental
   \hide TupletBracket
   \hide TupletNumber
}

transOff = {
   \revert NoteColumn.ignore-collision
   \revert NoteHead.no-ledgers
   \revert NoteHead.transparent
   \revert Stem.transparent
   \revert Beam.transparent
   \revert Flag.transparent
   \revert Dots.transparent
   \revert Accidental.transparent
   \revert TupletBracket.transparent
   \revert TupletNumber.transparent
}

\new Staff 
   \new Voice \relative c'' { \voiceOne c4~ c d, c }
   \new Voice \relative c' { \voiceTwo c d8 q }
   \new Voice \relative c' { \voiceThree \transOn s8 c_~ d^~ q }
 


I use \hideNotes \unHideNotes in this case. Why is \transOn \transOff
better?


\hideNotes only makes the notes transparent and doesn't remove the 
stencils. This _may_ work without problems, but will lead to 
accidentals, ties and slurs etc. trying to avoid the (invisible) notes, 
beams and particularly flags.
See 
http://lilypondblog.org/2013/07/voice-contexts-in-temporary-polyphonic-sections/ 

The introductory image shows quite well what happens (even when it is 
not about cross-voice ties).


HTH
Urs



Rutger



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Re: Ties across voices

[Nick Payne]

On 31/03/14 10:56, Daniel Rosen wrote:

Consider the example below:

\version 2.19.3

\new Staff 
   \new Voice \relative c'' { \voiceOne c4~ c d, c }
   \new Voice \relative c' { \voiceTwo c d8 q

How can I tie the lower voice's c d to the upper voice's c d, c?


You could use a third hidden voice:

\version 2.19.3

transOn = {
  \override NoteColumn.ignore-collision = ##t
  \override NoteHead.no-ledgers = ##t
  \hide NoteHead
  \hide Stem
  \hide Flag
  \hide Beam
  \hide Dots
  \hide Accidental
  \hide TupletBracket
  \hide TupletNumber
}

transOff = {
  \revert NoteColumn.ignore-collision
  \revert NoteHead.no-ledgers
  \revert NoteHead.transparent
  \revert Stem.transparent
  \revert Beam.transparent
  \revert Flag.transparent
  \revert Dots.transparent
  \revert Accidental.transparent
  \revert TupletBracket.transparent
  \revert TupletNumber.transparent
}

\new Staff 
  \new Voice \relative c'' { \voiceOne c4~ c d, c }
  \new Voice \relative c' { \voiceTwo c d8 q }
  \new Voice \relative c' { \voiceThree \transOn s8 c_~ d^~ q }


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Re: ties across voices

[Alberto Simões]

On 1/14/12 14:11 , Alberto Simões wrote:

Hello,

Is there anyway to make a tie across voices easily?

Thanks,
ambs


Got almost there:

f8[ g a c] | g4. \tieDown d8 ~ | 
  {  \stemOff d4 s }
  \new Voice { \stemUp g8[ a bes d] }

\stemUp

Where

stemOff = { \once \override Staff.Stem #'transparent = ##t }

But it seems that stemOff is making the stem white for the other two 
voices :-/ as can be seen in attach...


Thanks
ambs
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Re: ties across voices

[Alberto Simões]

On 1/14/12 14:31 , Alberto Simões wrote:



On 1/14/12 14:11 , Alberto Simões wrote:

Hello,

Is there anyway to make a tie across voices easily?

Thanks,
ambs


Got almost there:

f8[ g a c] | g4. \tieDown d8 ~ | 
{ \stemOff d4 s }
\new Voice { \stemUp g8[ a bes d] }
 
\stemUp

Where

stemOff = { \once \override Staff.Stem #'transparent = ##t }


Ok, got there...

stemOff = { \once \override Stem #'transparent = ##t }

It still complains with

piano+voz.ly:63:30: warning: ignoring too many clashing note columns

But ok :) good enough.

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Re: ties across voices

[Phil Holmes]

- Original Message - 
From: Alberto Simões al...@alfarrabio.di.uminho.pt

To: lilypond-user@gnu.org
Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2012 2:36 PM
Subject: Re: ties across voices




On 1/14/12 14:31 , Alberto Simões wrote:



On 1/14/12 14:11 , Alberto Simões wrote:

Hello,

Is there anyway to make a tie across voices easily?

Thanks,
ambs


Got almost there:

f8[ g a c] | g4. \tieDown d8 ~ | 
{ \stemOff d4 s }
\new Voice { \stemUp g8[ a bes d] }
 
\stemUp

Where

stemOff = { \once \override Staff.Stem #'transparent = ##t }


Ok, got there...

stemOff = { \once \override Stem #'transparent = ##t }

It still complains with

piano+voz.ly:63:30: warning: ignoring too many clashing note columns

But ok :) good enough.

___


It's all in the documentation if you look:

http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.15/Documentation/snippets/simultaneous-notes#suppressing-warnings-for-clashing-note-columns


--
Phil Holmes



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Re: ties across voices

[Alberto Simões]

On 1/14/12 14:44 , Phil Holmes wrote:

- Original Message - From: Alberto Simões
al...@alfarrabio.di.uminho.pt
To: lilypond-user@gnu.org
Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2012 2:36 PM
Subject: Re: ties across voices




On 1/14/12 14:31 , Alberto Simões wrote:



On 1/14/12 14:11 , Alberto Simões wrote:

Hello,

Is there anyway to make a tie across voices easily?

Thanks,
ambs


Got almost there:

f8[ g a c] | g4. \tieDown d8 ~ | 
{ \stemOff d4 s }
\new Voice { \stemUp g8[ a bes d] }

\stemUp

Where

stemOff = { \once \override Staff.Stem #'transparent = ##t }


Ok, got there...

stemOff = { \once \override Stem #'transparent = ##t }

It still complains with

piano+voz.ly:63:30: warning: ignoring too many clashing note columns

But ok :) good enough.

___


It's all in the documentation if you look:

http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.15/Documentation/snippets/simultaneous-notes#suppressing-warnings-for-clashing-note-columns


I confess I didn't search for it, as I would be okay with the warning :)
But thanks, it makes compile cleaner.

Cheers

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Re: ties across voices

[Pavel Roskin]

Quoting Alberto Simões al...@alfarrabio.di.uminho.pt:


It's all in the documentation if you look:

http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.15/Documentation/snippets/simultaneous-notes#suppressing-warnings-for-clashing-note-columns


I confess I didn't search for it, as I would be okay with the warning :)
But thanks, it makes compile cleaner.


It would be better to avoid cross-voice ties.  A tie is a very good  
indication that the notes are in the same voice.  You can change the  
voice style (\voiceOne etc) but keep the tied notes in one voice.


I would do something like this:

\version 2.14.2
\score {
  \new Staff 
\new Voice \relative c'' { \voiceOne d4 s4 }
\new Voice \relative c'' { \voiceTwo b4 ~ \voiceOne b4 }
\new Voice \relative c'' { s4 \voiceTwo a4 }
  
  \layout { }
}

It's possible to use just two voices in the above example and avoid  
silent rests, but I prefer to keep voices sorted by the pitch, the  
first voice being the highest and the last being the lowest.


Don't forget voiceThree and voiceFour, they can fix the clashes.  I  
use stemUp and stemDown as the last resort.


I don't use temporary voice ever, there are too many problems with  
them down the road.


--
Regards,
Pavel Roskin

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Re: ties across voices

[Patrick Schmidt]

Thank you all for your solutions!

I prefer the fiddling with voiceOne and voiceTwo etc. (see below) because it 
ties the notes not only visually (as opposed to invisible extra notes in one 
voice). The midi-version sounds right, too. I think this is a case for the 
snippet repository.

All the best,
Patrick
 Original-Nachricht 
 Datum: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 21:55:11 +0200
 Von: Wilbert Berendsen lily...@xs4all.nl
 An: lilypond-user@gnu.org
 Betreff: Re: ties across voices

 Op zaterdag 01 augustus 2009, schreef Patrick Schmidt:
  how can I tie a note of one voice to a note of another voice?
 
 There is no easy way to do just that (afaict, other than placing the Tie-
 Engraver in the Staff context?), but most times I fiddle a bit with
 voiceOne, 
 voiceTwo etc. This is one solution:
 
 
   {
 \times 2/3 { es8 d c_~ }
 \voiceTwo
 c es2
 \voiceOne
 f4
   }
   \\ {
 g,4
 \voiceOne
 bes'2
 \voiceTwo
 d4
   } 
 
 
 The tie is now just in the same Voice, but by using some \voiceOne and 
 \voiceTwo commands, they swap direction at the tie point.
 
 The underscore before the tie forces it down.
 
 
 
 best regards,
 Wilbert Berendsen
 
 -- 
 Frescobaldi, LilyPond editor for KDE: http://www.frescobaldi.org/
 
 
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Re: ties across voices

[Neil Puttock]

2009/8/1 Patrick Schmidt p.l.schm...@gmx.de:

 how can I tie a note of one voice to a note of another voice?

You can't.  The usual workaround is to use a hidden note:

http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.13/input/lsr/lilypond-snippets-big-page.html#Making-an-object-invisible-with-the-_0027transparent-property

Regards,
Neil


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Re: ties across voices

[Wilbert Berendsen]

Op zaterdag 01 augustus 2009, schreef Patrick Schmidt:
 how can I tie a note of one voice to a note of another voice?

There is no easy way to do just that (afaict, other than placing the Tie-
Engraver in the Staff context?), but most times I fiddle a bit with voiceOne, 
voiceTwo etc. This is one solution:


  {
\times 2/3 { es8 d c_~ }
\voiceTwo
c es2
\voiceOne
f4
  }
  \\ {
g,4
\voiceOne
bes'2
\voiceTwo
d4
  } 


The tie is now just in the same Voice, but by using some \voiceOne and 
\voiceTwo commands, they swap direction at the tie point.

The underscore before the tie forces it down.



best regards,
Wilbert Berendsen

-- 
Frescobaldi, LilyPond editor for KDE: http://www.frescobaldi.org/


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Re: ties across voices

[Francisco Vila]

2009/8/1 Neil Puttock n.putt...@gmail.com:
 2009/8/1 Patrick Schmidt p.l.schm...@gmx.de:

 how can I tie a note of one voice to a note of another voice?

 You can't.  The usual workaround is to use a hidden note:

 http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.13/input/lsr/lilypond-snippets-big-page.html#Making-an-object-invisible-with-the-_0027transparent-property

[This cross-posting has a reason, as you will see.]

Visual packages can do cross-voice slurs easily because you choose a
pair of noteheads with your mouse and the program draws a slur between
them. Ties are, however, equally difficult as for LilyPond is,
AFAICRemember. LilyPond has a simple and comfortable syntax for
in-voice ties and slurs that makes them easy to perform, but
cross-voice ties and slurs are difficult.

I think that emulating the visual behaviour could be done marking
noteheads with a given name or number, regardless of what voice or
staff do they belong to, and LilyPond could possibly trace them as it
already knows the coordinates.

For example,

\new Voice { c \startSlur=name d e f } %stores coordinates of this notehead
\new Voice { c d e f \endSlur=name } %we already have both ends

I am asking only if this would be possible, and if yes, make an
enhancement request.
-- 
Francisco Vila. Badajoz (Spain)
www.paconet.org
www.csmbadajoz.com


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Re: ties across voices -- DIFFICULT!!!

[Eric Flesher]

Eric Flesher ericflesher at gmail.com writes:

 
 I am having an extremely difficult time finding an acceptable coding solution
 for a fairly straightforward (though relatively complex) notational problem:


... et cetera... 

Here's the code:

\version 2.11.51


upper = \relative c'' {
  \clef bass
  \time 3/1
  { s1 s1 r1 } \\
{ \stemUp  fis,,,_~ gis_~ cis^~ dis^~ 1 
   fis~ gis~ cis^~ dis 1 
   fis gis~ cis~ 2 
   gis~ cis^~ 2 } 
   

  \time 3/1 \clef bass 
 fis! gis!~ cis!~ dis! 1 
 gis cis 1~  gis cis 2.~  gis cis 8 r8
\break

  \time 4/1 \clef bass 

   

{
fis_~ gis_~ cis^~ dis^~ 1
fis \tweak #'transparent ##t gis cis 
 \tweak #'transparent ##t dis 1~
 \stemDown  \tweak #'transparent ##t fis cis' 1~
 \stemUp cis'2. r4
}
\\
{
   s1 s1 fis,2~ fis8 r8 r4 s1
}
\\
{  s1  gis dis' 2. r4 s1 s1   
}

}

lower = \relative c {
  \clef bass
  
{
   f,!_~ g!^~ c!^~ d!^~ 1 
   \tweak #'transparent ##t f g 
\tweak #'transparent ##t c d 1~
   g d' 1~  
}
\\
{
   s1
   \stemDown  
   \once \override NoteColumn #'force-hshift = #0.75
f c' 4 c4\rest c2\rest s1 
}
  
   
{  s1
   \once \override NoteColumn #'force-hshift = #-0.15
   d'2. r4 s1
}
\\
{
f,!_~ g!_~ c!^~ d!^~ 1
f g c \tweak #'transparent ##t d 1~
   \stemUp  f_~ \tweak #'transparent ##t g c^~ 2
f c' 4. d'8\rest
}
\\
   { s1 s1 \stemDown g,4. a,8\rest a2\rest }
   

   
{   
f'!_~ g!_~ c!^~ d!^~1
   \once \override TieColumn #'tie-configuration =
   #'((-5.5 . -1)  (-4.5 . -1) (0.5 . 1) (1.5 . 1))
   \once \override NoteColumn #'force-hshift = #-0.75
\tweak #'transparent ##t f \tweak #'transparent ##t g
 \tweak #'transparent ##t c \tweak #'transparent ##t d 
 \stemDown
 \once \override NoteColumn #'force-hshift = #-2.5 g2_~
 g8 c,8\rest c4\rest c2\rest 
  des\harmonic ges\harmonic as\harmonic des\harmonic 2
}
\\
{  s1 \stemDown
   \once \override NoteColumn #'force-hshift = #-0.75
g c 1~
   \once \override TieColumn #'tie-configuration =
   #'((-6.5 . -1)  (-2 . -1)) 
   \once \override NoteColumn #'force-hshift = #-2.75
\tweak #'transparent ##t g c^~  \stemUp c2. a'4\rest  
}
\\
{  s1
   \once \override NoteColumn #'force-hshift = #0.25
f, d' 2. r4
}
\\

{  \stemUp
}

}

\score {
  \new PianoStaff 
\new Staff = upper \upper
\new Staff = lower \lower
  
  \layout { }
  \midi { }
}




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