Re: Lilypond on OS X Catalina

[Frauke Jurgensen]

What a very, very silly situation, and I feel for all those who are involved at 
ground level in trying to sort it out. I switched from a Debian laptop to a Mac 
one this summer, because I need to be able to use some proprietary stuff that’s 
not available, and I naïvely assumed that I could be happy as long as I had my 
command line. Because I clearly walk about with my head in the clouds, I had no 
idea until seeing this thread (and some random warnings in Lilypond, of 
course), that there was going to be an issue. I’ll be following closely from 
now on...

> On 18 Oct 2019, at 18:15, Werner LEMBERG  wrote:
> 
> 
>> Do you believe that it is impermissible for us to offer a binary
>> compiled using XCode on lilypond.org?  [...]
> 
> AFAIK, the limitation is only *building* on Mac OS hardware, not
> *distributing*.
> 
> 
>Werner
> 
> ___
> lilypond-user mailing list
> lilypond-user@gnu.org
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user


___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Lilypond on OS X Catalina

[Werner LEMBERG]

> Do you believe that it is impermissible for us to offer a binary
> compiled using XCode on lilypond.org?  [...]

AFAIK, the limitation is only *building* on Mac OS hardware, not
*distributing*.


Werner

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Lilypond on OS X Catalina

[Carl Sorensen]

On 10/17/19, 5:38 PM, "David Kastrup"  wrote:

Karlin High  writes:

> On 10/17/2019 5:10 PM, Allan Kinnaird via lilypond-user wrote:
>> I believe that the real question is when a 64-bit Mac binary will
>> appear on lilypond.org  - I would expect
>> v2.20.0 or thereabouts. Does anyone have a solid timetable?
>
> My current understanding is this:
>
> There is a conflict between Apple's Software License Agreement for the
> XCode software needed to build 64-bit Mac binaries, and the GNU
> General Public License that LilyPond uses.

No, it is a conflict between Apple's Software License Agreement for the
XCode software needed to build 64-bit Mac binaries, and the GNU General
Public License that GUB, the build system we use for generating the
binaries downloadable from our web site.

Use of software not allowed to run on non-Apple hardware for building
the binaries we offer is also arguably incompatible with the GNU
maintainer guidelines objecting to the promotion of non-free software on
webpages for GNU software.

Do you believe that it is impermissible for us to offer a binary compiled using 
XCode on lilypond.org?  For example, if Marnen were able to get a 64-bit 
lilypond.app binary compiled using MacStadium and agreed to provide it for 
every release, do you believe we would legally or morally be prevented from 
hosting this binary on lilypond.org.

If you do believe we would legally or morally be prevented from hosting this 
binary on lilypond.org, do you believe we would be legally or morally be 
prevented from providing a link to a download hosted elsewhere?

If I were to develop a website that hosted Marnen's build, do you believe we 
would be legally or morally prevented from providing a link to my website, 
which then had a link to download Marnen's build?

Assuming there is no free version of the software needed from XCode, do you 
believe there is any legally and morally permissible way for lilypond.org to 
point someone to available 64-bit Mac binaries?

I'm asking these questions not to complain or cause problems, but just to find 
out where you think the legal and moral boundaries are for sharing a 64-bit Mac 
binary.  

Thanks,

Carl
 

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Lilypond on OS X Catalina

[Chris Crossen]

> On Oct 17, 2019, at 7:42 PM, Carl Sorensen  wrote:
> 
>  Start of code
> 
> \version "2.19.82"
> {
>  \time 4/4
>  \repeat unfold 1000 { c4 d e f } % TEN PAGES of music
>  \repeat unfold 1000 { f1 } % + SIX MORE PAGES of music
>  \repeat unfold 1000 { c4 d e f } % BUT WHEN ADDING MORE PAGES, fail NOW
> }
> 
> % End of code

This ran and produced 3000 measures of music on a pdf 25 pages long. I attached 
a screen shot of the last line of the pdf.

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Lilypond on OS X Catalina

[Carl Sorensen]

On 10/17/19, 7:46 PM, "Chris Crossen"  wrote:



> On Oct 17, 2019, at 5:29 PM, Chris Crossen  wrote:
> 
>> Thanks, Carl - I haven’t upgraded to Catalina myself for exactly that 
reason (and Lilypond is my only significant 32-bit app!). I’ll see if I can 
work out how to use Hans’s version.
>> Allan
> 
> I have Catalina installed on a Mac laptop. I downloaded the installer and 
am running it now. I’ll report back when I have some results to share.

The install was successful. I didn’t know where it installed, but found it 
in /opt/lilypond .

That's where it was supposed to be.

It successfully generated a correct-looking pdf and midi (I’ll verify them 
tomorrow) from a single source file (no includes but english.ly). The file was 
already version 2.19. I’ll try using convert-ly and more complex files tomorrow.

Yes, it was made from the latest development release, 2.19.83

Since this may not be of general interest, please give me some guidance on 
whether to continue posting to the group or confine it to those interested.


 Please report your experiences.

Here's some test code that has been known to fail on 32-bit lilypond 
executables, but succeed on 64-bit linux executables.

 Start of code

\version "2.19.82"
{
  \time 4/4
  \repeat unfold 1000 { c4 d e f } % TEN PAGES of music
  \repeat unfold 1000 { f1 } % + SIX MORE PAGES of music
  \repeat unfold 1000 { c4 d e f } % BUT WHEN ADDING MORE PAGES, fail NOW
}

% End of code

I expect it to work, but it would be nice to get a confirmation.

It's nice to know that this package can be installed.

Thanks,

Arl

   






___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Lilypond on OS X Catalina

[Chris Crossen]

> On Oct 17, 2019, at 5:29 PM, Chris Crossen  wrote:
> 
>> Thanks, Carl - I haven’t upgraded to Catalina myself for exactly that reason 
>> (and Lilypond is my only significant 32-bit app!). I’ll see if I can work 
>> out how to use Hans’s version.
>> Allan
> 
> I have Catalina installed on a Mac laptop. I downloaded the installer and am 
> running it now. I’ll report back when I have some results to share.

The install was successful. I didn’t know where it installed, but found it in 
/opt/lilypond .

It successfully generated a correct-looking pdf and midi (I’ll verify them 
tomorrow) from a single source file (no includes but english.ly). The file was 
already version 2.19. I’ll try using convert-ly and more complex files tomorrow.

Since this may not be of general interest, please give me some guidance on 
whether to continue posting to the group or confine it to those interested.








___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Lilypond on OS X Catalina

[Chris Crossen]

> On Oct 17, 2019, at 4:48 PM, Allan Kinnaird via lilypond-user 
>  wrote:
> 
> Thanks, Carl - I haven’t upgraded to Catalina myself for exactly that reason 
> (and Lilypond is my only significant 32-bit app!). I’ll see if I can work out 
> how to use Hans’s version.
> Allan

I have Catalina installed on a Mac laptop. I downloaded the installer and am 
running it now. I’ll report back when I have some results to share.




___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Lilypond on OS X Catalina

[Allan Kinnaird via lilypond-user]

Thanks, Carl - I haven’t upgraded to Catalina myself for exactly that reason 
(and Lilypond is my only significant 32-bit app!). I’ll see if I can work out 
how to use Hans’s version.
Allan

> On 18 Oct 2019, at 00:41, Carl Sorensen  wrote:
> 
> I suggest you try Hans’s link (I mistakenly attributed it to Werner).  It is 
> a package created in MacPorts, but I believe it does not require MacPorts to 
> be on the machine; it’s a package that was built separately.
>  
>  https://web2.storegate.com/share/oCQjV4r 
> 
>  
>  
> I tried to test it out on my Mac (which doesn’t have MacPorts installed), but 
> it won’t install because I don’t have Catalina (precisely because I didn’t 
> want to lose all of my 32-bit apps).
>  
> I think it’s worth a try for you.
>  
> Thanks,
>  
> Carl

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Lilypond on OS X Catalina

[Hans Åberg]

> On 18 Oct 2019, at 01:41, Carl Sorensen  wrote:
> 
> I suggest you try Hans’s link (I mistakenly attributed it to Werner).  It is 
> a package created in MacPorts, but I believe it does not require MacPorts to 
> be on the machine; it’s a package that was built separately.
>  
>  https://web2.storegate.com/share/oCQjV4r
>  
> I tried to test it out on my Mac (which doesn’t have MacPorts installed), but 
> it won’t install because I don’t have Catalina (precisely because I didn’t 
> want to lose all of my 32-bit apps).

It does not touch anything outside /opt/lilypond/ I think. The location is 
suggested by the standard FHS.

> I think it’s worth a try for you.

It is intended as a test on MacOS 10.15 for those that need LilyPond but does 
not have MacPorts.


___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Lilypond on OS X Catalina

[Hans Åberg]

> On 18 Oct 2019, at 01:39, David Kastrup  wrote:
> 
> Hans Åberg  writes:
> 
>>> On 18 Oct 2019, at 00:30, Karlin High  wrote:
>>> 
>>> On 10/17/2019 5:10 PM, Allan Kinnaird via lilypond-user wrote:
 I believe that the real question is when a 64-bit Mac binary will
 appear on lilypond.org  - I would expect
 v2.20.0 or thereabouts. Does anyone have a solid timetable?
>>> 
>>> My current understanding is this:
>>> 
>>> There is a conflict between Apple's Software License Agreement for
>>> the XCode software needed to build 64-bit Mac binaries, and the GNU
>>> General Public License that LilyPond uses. The current build system
>>> cannot be adapted for 64-bit without violating Apple's license.
>> 
>> It is only for cross-builds, and it does not matter, because later
>> versions of Xcode only have Clang, not GCC proper, which LilyPond does
>> not compile with.
> 
> That's something that could be changed at some cost if it were
> significant.

Yes, something for the future.


___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Lilypond on OS X Catalina

[Carl Sorensen]

I suggest you try Hans’s link (I mistakenly attributed it to Werner).  It is a 
package created in MacPorts, but I believe it does not require MacPorts to be 
on the machine; it’s a package that was built separately.

 https://web2.storegate.com/share/oCQjV4r


I tried to test it out on my Mac (which doesn’t have MacPorts installed), but 
it won’t install because I don’t have Catalina (precisely because I didn’t want 
to lose all of my 32-bit apps).

I think it’s worth a try for you.

Thanks,

Carl


___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Lilypond on OS X Catalina

[David Kastrup]

Hans Åberg  writes:

>> On 18 Oct 2019, at 00:30, Karlin High  wrote:
>> 
>> On 10/17/2019 5:10 PM, Allan Kinnaird via lilypond-user wrote:
>>> I believe that the real question is when a 64-bit Mac binary will
>>> appear on lilypond.org  - I would expect
>>> v2.20.0 or thereabouts. Does anyone have a solid timetable?
>> 
>> My current understanding is this:
>> 
>> There is a conflict between Apple's Software License Agreement for
>> the XCode software needed to build 64-bit Mac binaries, and the GNU
>> General Public License that LilyPond uses. The current build system
>> cannot be adapted for 64-bit without violating Apple's license.
>
> It is only for cross-builds, and it does not matter, because later
> versions of Xcode only have Clang, not GCC proper, which LilyPond does
> not compile with.

That's something that could be changed at some cost if it were
significant.

-- 
David Kastrup

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Lilypond on OS X Catalina

[David Kastrup]

Karlin High  writes:

> On 10/17/2019 5:10 PM, Allan Kinnaird via lilypond-user wrote:
>> I believe that the real question is when a 64-bit Mac binary will
>> appear on lilypond.org  - I would expect
>> v2.20.0 or thereabouts. Does anyone have a solid timetable?
>
> My current understanding is this:
>
> There is a conflict between Apple's Software License Agreement for the
> XCode software needed to build 64-bit Mac binaries, and the GNU
> General Public License that LilyPond uses.

No, it is a conflict between Apple's Software License Agreement for the
XCode software needed to build 64-bit Mac binaries, and the GNU General
Public License that GUB, the build system we use for generating the
binaries downloadable from our web site.

Use of software not allowed to run on non-Apple hardware for building
the binaries we offer is also arguably incompatible with the GNU
maintainer guidelines objecting to the promotion of non-free software on
webpages for GNU software.

It certainly is permissible to compile LilyPond using XCode for your own
purposes, at least it is not a license violation of LilyPond's license.
But it's outside of the scope of what we can provide as a binary
download on LilyPond's website.  That's something that the various
packagers of GPLed software for MacOSX have to be doing.

Unless somebody manages to adapt the GUB subsystem for MacOSX to an
OpenDarwin SDK or some other toolkit available under a free license
allowing us to create binaries working under MacOSX.

> There has been a lot of discussion and ongoing research into how to
> best move forward. References to list archives can be provided if they
> would be helpful. But, there is no solid timetable for when a 64-bit
> Mac binary will appear on lilypond.org.

"There is no solid timetable" is a euphemism.  It's more like "there is
no feasible plan that would result in a 64-bit Mac binary for download
from lilypond.org".

-- 
David Kastrup

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Lilypond on OS X Catalina

[Allan Kinnaird via lilypond-user]

Thanks, Carl - your summary explains the situation pretty much as I expected, 
Many people in the community are working hard to solve the problem, but we are 
tied by external forces.
If I can see any useful work I can do, I will be happy to volunteer.

> On 18 Oct 2019, at 00:14, Carl Sorensen  wrote:
> 
>  
>  
> From: Allan Kinnaird mailto:akinna...@icloud.com>>
> Date: Thursday, October 17, 2019 at 4:10 PM
> To: mailto:lilypond-user@gnu.org>>
> Subject: Re:Lilypond on OS X Catalina
>  
> I have been disappointed by the responses on this and related threads. It 
> seems to me that many of the responders have not fully absorbed the questions.
>  
> The basis of the problem is that with Catalina (OS X 10.15) Apple has 
> withdrawn support for any application not compiled for 64 bits.
>  
> So, any application compiled for 32 bits is likely not to run, and there is 
> strong evidence that existing versions of Lilypond do not.
>  
> Existing lilypond binaries for OSX are all 32 bit.  As has been stated 
> multiple times, these will not run on Catalina.
>  
> There are NO 64-bit distributable binaries for lilypond as far as I know.  
> Although you could try the link that Werner shared on the -devel list: 
> https://web2.storegate.com/share/oCQjV4r 
> 
>  
> Let us know if this link works.
>  
> 64-bit binaries can be compiled from source on OSX using MacPorts.
>  
>  
> Most of us “Lilypond users” (is that not the target of this thread?) are not 
> really interested in forcing five-year-old code into use by clever 
> compilation techniques.
> We just want to continue to use stable Lilypond on our current computer 
> system by whatever means we did in the past. How can we do this?
>  
> Nobody knows how to do this right now.  If you wish, you can blame the 
> lilypond community.  I don’t think that will help anything.  You could also 
> blame Apple, but that won’t help anything either.
>  
> I believe that the real question is when a 64-bit Mac binary will appear on 
> lilypond.org  - I would expect v2.20.0 or thereabouts. 
> Does anyone have a solid timetable?
>  
> Believe me, we understand the issue.  We just don’t know how to solve it now.
>  
> Apple refuses to let anybody use Xcode for building on any non-Apple hardware.
>  
> Our build system is based on non-Apple hardware.
>  
> A number of people are trying different approaches to get at a 64-bit Mac 
> binary.  There will be nothing magical about 2.20 for a 64-bit binary.  2.20 
> could easily come out without a 64-bit Mac binary.  And it is possible that a 
> 64-bit Mac binary could be produced before 2.20 is released.
>  
> It is also possible (although I hope it is not the case) that there will 
> never be a 64-bit lilypond binary distribution for OSX.  It all depends on 
> having one or more volunteers step up to make it happen.  We have no 
> employees.  We have no funding.  Most of our developers are very experienced 
> in the Linux world; I think it’s an amazing blessing that we have ever had 
> binaries for OSX and Windows.  Do you have any ideas where we might get 
> developers who are skilled in OSX development to join the project?
>  
> Note that we have Marnen and Werner working pretty hard to get something 
> working.  You can follow the discussion on lilypond-devel if you’d like more 
> information.
>  
> Thanks,
> 
> Carl

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Lilypond on OS X Catalina

[Allan Kinnaird via lilypond-user]

Thanks, Karlin

It sounds as if the problem may be political and we just have to hope for a 
sensible political solution.


> On 17 Oct 2019, at 23:30, Karlin High  wrote:
> 
> On 10/17/2019 5:10 PM, Allan Kinnaird via lilypond-user wrote:
>> I believe that the real question is when a 64-bit Mac binary will appear on 
>> lilypond.org  - I would expect v2.20.0 or thereabouts. 
>> Does anyone have a solid timetable?
> 
> My current understanding is this:
> 
> There is a conflict between Apple's Software License Agreement for the XCode 
> software needed to build 64-bit Mac binaries, and the GNU General Public 
> License that LilyPond uses. The current build system cannot be adapted for 
> 64-bit without violating Apple's license.
> 
> There has been a lot of discussion and ongoing research into how to best move 
> forward. References to list archives can be provided if they would be 
> helpful. But, there is no solid timetable for when a 64-bit Mac binary will 
> appear on lilypond.org.
> -- 
> Karlin High
> Missouri, USA


___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Lilypond on OS X Catalina

[Carl Sorensen]

From: Allan Kinnaird 
Date: Thursday, October 17, 2019 at 4:10 PM
To: 
Subject: Re:Lilypond on OS X Catalina

I have been disappointed by the responses on this and related threads. It seems 
to me that many of the responders have not fully absorbed the questions.

The basis of the problem is that with Catalina (OS X 10.15) Apple has withdrawn 
support for any application not compiled for 64 bits.

So, any application compiled for 32 bits is likely not to run, and there is 
strong evidence that existing versions of Lilypond do not.

Existing lilypond binaries for OSX are all 32 bit.  As has been stated multiple 
times, these will not run on Catalina.

There are NO 64-bit distributable binaries for lilypond as far as I know.  
Although you could try the link that Werner shared on the -devel list: 
https://web2.storegate.com/share/oCQjV4r

Let us know if this link works.

64-bit binaries can be compiled from source on OSX using MacPorts.


Most of us “Lilypond users” (is that not the target of this thread?) are not 
really interested in forcing five-year-old code into use by clever compilation 
techniques.
We just want to continue to use stable Lilypond on our current computer system 
by whatever means we did in the past. How can we do this?

Nobody knows how to do this right now.  If you wish, you can blame the lilypond 
community.  I don’t think that will help anything.  You could also blame Apple, 
but that won’t help anything either.

I believe that the real question is when a 64-bit Mac binary will appear on 
lilypond.org - I would expect v2.20.0 or thereabouts. Does 
anyone have a solid timetable?

Believe me, we understand the issue.  We just don’t know how to solve it now.

Apple refuses to let anybody use Xcode for building on any non-Apple hardware.

Our build system is based on non-Apple hardware.

A number of people are trying different approaches to get at a 64-bit Mac 
binary.  There will be nothing magical about 2.20 for a 64-bit binary.  2.20 
could easily come out without a 64-bit Mac binary.  And it is possible that a 
64-bit Mac binary could be produced before 2.20 is released.

It is also possible (although I hope it is not the case) that there will never 
be a 64-bit lilypond binary distribution for OSX.  It all depends on having one 
or more volunteers step up to make it happen.  We have no employees.  We have 
no funding.  Most of our developers are very experienced in the Linux world; I 
think it’s an amazing blessing that we have ever had binaries for OSX and 
Windows.  Do you have any ideas where we might get developers who are skilled 
in OSX development to join the project?

Note that we have Marnen and Werner working pretty hard to get something 
working.  You can follow the discussion on lilypond-devel if you’d like more 
information.

Thanks,

Carl


___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Lilypond on OS X Catalina

[Allan Kinnaird via lilypond-user]

Thanks for that, Hans, but I don’t understand what it means.
I just want to be able to use Lilypond. Nobody who has bought a Mac since the 
launch of OS X 10.15 will be able to use Lilypond, and nobody else who uses 
Lilypond already can safely upgrade to the latest OS version.

> On 17 Oct 2019, at 23:55, Hans Åberg  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On 18 Oct 2019, at 00:30, Karlin High  wrote:
>> 
>> On 10/17/2019 5:10 PM, Allan Kinnaird via lilypond-user wrote:
>>> I believe that the real question is when a 64-bit Mac binary will appear on 
>>> lilypond.org  - I would expect v2.20.0 or thereabouts. 
>>> Does anyone have a solid timetable?
>> 
>> My current understanding is this:
>> 
>> There is a conflict between Apple's Software License Agreement for the XCode 
>> software needed to build 64-bit Mac binaries, and the GNU General Public 
>> License that LilyPond uses. The current build system cannot be adapted for 
>> 64-bit without violating Apple's license.
> 
> It is only for cross-builds, and it does not matter, because later versions 
> of Xcode only have Clang, not GCC proper, which LilyPond does not compile 
> with.
> 
> 


___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Lilypond on OS X Catalina

[Stan Sanderson]

I was a long time user of Fink, another package manager for Mac. Out of 
curiosity I tried Homebrew but learned it sprinkled files in many places. Fink 
had everything in one location, so it was easy to uninstall. MacPorts is my 
preference now, due to its file management policy and excellent support. I 
appreciate the addition of the LilyPond-development port, which compiled 
without a hiccup yesterday. However, I am not planning to upgrade to Catalina 
until it is more stable and all my “essential” apps are 64-bit.

I am grateful to all those working on the licensing problem and wish them 
success.

Stan

> On Oct 17, 2019, at 5:47 PM, Allan Kinnaird via lilypond-user 
>  wrote:
> 
> And, alas, as I said, I want to avoid MacPorts for other reasons :-(
> (And MacPorts does not currently certify their version of lilypond-devel for 
> 10.15, so maybe it works…)
> But thanks for the info.
> 
>>> On 17 Oct 2019, at 23:27, Hans Åberg  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
 On 18 Oct 2019, at 00:10, Allan Kinnaird via lilypond-user 
  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I believe that the real question is when a 64-bit Mac binary will appear on 
>>> lilypond.org - I would expect v2.20.0 or thereabouts. Does anyone have a 
>>> solid timetable?
>> 
>> MacPorts lilypond-devel installs, and I just made a port for it that 
>> installs in /opt/lilypond/, an dit compiled a small snippet.
>> 
> 
> 
> ___
> lilypond-user mailing list
> lilypond-user@gnu.org
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Lilypond on OS X Catalina

[Hans Åberg]

> On 18 Oct 2019, at 00:30, Karlin High  wrote:
> 
> On 10/17/2019 5:10 PM, Allan Kinnaird via lilypond-user wrote:
>> I believe that the real question is when a 64-bit Mac binary will appear on 
>> lilypond.org  - I would expect v2.20.0 or thereabouts. 
>> Does anyone have a solid timetable?
> 
> My current understanding is this:
> 
> There is a conflict between Apple's Software License Agreement for the XCode 
> software needed to build 64-bit Mac binaries, and the GNU General Public 
> License that LilyPond uses. The current build system cannot be adapted for 
> 64-bit without violating Apple's license.

It is only for cross-builds, and it does not matter, because later versions of 
Xcode only have Clang, not GCC proper, which LilyPond does not compile with.



___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Lilypond on OS X Catalina

[Allan Kinnaird via lilypond-user]

And, alas, as I said, I want to avoid MacPorts for other reasons :-(
(And MacPorts does not currently certify their version of lilypond-devel for 
10.15, so maybe it works…)
But thanks for the info.

> On 17 Oct 2019, at 23:27, Hans Åberg  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On 18 Oct 2019, at 00:10, Allan Kinnaird via lilypond-user 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I believe that the real question is when a 64-bit Mac binary will appear on 
>> lilypond.org - I would expect v2.20.0 or thereabouts. Does anyone have a 
>> solid timetable?
> 
> MacPorts lilypond-devel installs, and I just made a port for it that installs 
> in /opt/lilypond/, an dit compiled a small snippet.
> 


___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Lilypond on OS X Catalina

[Karlin High]

On 10/17/2019 5:10 PM, Allan Kinnaird via lilypond-user wrote:
I believe that the real question is when a 64-bit Mac binary will appear 
on lilypond.org  - I would expect v2.20.0 or 
thereabouts. Does anyone have a solid timetable?


My current understanding is this:

There is a conflict between Apple's Software License Agreement for the 
XCode software needed to build 64-bit Mac binaries, and the GNU General 
Public License that LilyPond uses. The current build system cannot be 
adapted for 64-bit without violating Apple's license.


There has been a lot of discussion and ongoing research into how to best 
move forward. References to list archives can be provided if they would 
be helpful. But, there is no solid timetable for when a 64-bit Mac 
binary will appear on lilypond.org.

--
Karlin High
Missouri, USA

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Lilypond on OS X Catalina

[Hans Åberg]

> On 18 Oct 2019, at 00:10, Allan Kinnaird via lilypond-user 
>  wrote:
> 
> I believe that the real question is when a 64-bit Mac binary will appear on 
> lilypond.org - I would expect v2.20.0 or thereabouts. Does anyone have a 
> solid timetable?

MacPorts lilypond-devel installs, and I just made a port for it that installs 
in /opt/lilypond/, an dit compiled a small snippet.


___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Lilypond on OS X Catalina

[eBooks]

> On Oct 17, 2019, at 3:10 PM, Allan Kinnaird via lilypond-user 
>  wrote:

> I believe that the real question is when a 64-bit Mac binary will appear on 
> lilypond.org - I would expect v2.20.0 or thereabouts. Does anyone have a 
> solid timetable?

This would be my question also.






___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Lilypond on OS X Catalina

[Thomas Scharkowski]

Il giorno ven 27 set 2019 alle ore 18:33 Thomas Scharkowski
 ha scritto:
> I'll attach the log now:

The port lilypond-devel built correctly on MacPorts' 10.14 buildbot,
so the error may be specific to your system.
Judging from the log, there's probably some issue with header files.
Please do

sudo port clean lilypond-devel

and try again (I see from your other messages that you already did
selfupdate and upgrade outdated).
If it still fails it is best to open a ticket at MacPorts.
If you have a GitHub account you can do it yourself at
https://trac.macports.org/wiki/Tickets
(please follow the instructions at 
https://guide.macports.org/#project.tickets).
Otherwise I can open it for you.

Thank you Davide,

I hat also already „cleaned“ - please open the ticket for me.

Thomas






Gesendet mit der Telekom Mail App
<http://www.t-online.de/service/redir/emailmobilapp_ios_smartphone_footerlink.htm>

-Original-Nachricht-
Von: Davide Liessi mailto:davide.lie...@gmail.com> >
Betreff: Re: Lilypond on OS X Catalina
Datum: 28.09.2019, 11:31 Uhr
An: Thomas Scharkowski mailto:t.scharkow...@t-online.de> >
CC: LilyPond Users mailto:lilypond-user@gnu.org> 
>, Hans Åberg mailto:haber...@telia.com> >

Il giorno ven 27 set 2019 alle ore 18:33 Thomas Scharkowski
 ha scritto:
> I'll attach the log now:

The port lilypond-devel built correctly on MacPorts' 10.14 buildbot,
so the error may be specific to your system.
Judging from the log, there's probably some issue with header files.
Please do

sudo port clean lilypond-devel

and try again (I see from your other messages that you already did
selfupdate and upgrade outdated).
If it still fails it is best to open a ticket at MacPorts.
If you have a GitHub account you can do it yourself at
https://trac.macports.org/wiki/Tickets
(please follow the instructions at 
https://guide.macports.org/#project.tickets).
Otherwise I can open it for you.

Best wishes.
Davide
___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Lilypond on OS X Catalina

[Davide Liessi]

Il giorno ven 27 set 2019 alle ore 18:33 Thomas Scharkowski
 ha scritto:
> I'll attach the log now:

The port lilypond-devel built correctly on MacPorts' 10.14 buildbot,
so the error may be specific to your system.
Judging from the log, there's probably some issue with header files.
Please do

sudo port clean lilypond-devel

and try again (I see from your other messages that you already did
selfupdate and upgrade outdated).
If it still fails it is best to open a ticket at MacPorts.
If you have a GitHub account you can do it yourself at
https://trac.macports.org/wiki/Tickets
(please follow the instructions at https://guide.macports.org/#project.tickets).
Otherwise I can open it for you.

Best wishes.
Davide

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Lilypond on OS X Catalina

[Davide Liessi]

Dear Thomas,

Il giorno ven 27 set 2019 alle ore 10:41 Thomas Scharkowski
 ha scritto:
> I could post the log if someone is willing to look at it and help.

Is it the same error as this one?
https://trac.macports.org/ticket/58913

Best wishes.
Davide

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Lilypond on OS X Catalina

[Thomas Scharkowski]

 Original-Nachricht 



On 13 Sep 2019, at 19:30, Henning Hraban Ramm  wrote:


Am 2019-09-13 um 19:15 schrieb Allan Kinnaird via lilypond-user 
:

Apple flagged on the release of Mojave that it would be the last version of OS 
X to support 32-bit applications, and the indications are that Catalina will 
only operate with 64-bit applications.
On a system analysis, Lilypond is the only significant application I have still 
showing as 32-bit.
Is anyone working on a Catalina compilation of Lilypond? If so, when might the 
package be posted?
I am willing to try compiling from source, in spite of recommendations against 
on the website.
I know there may be problems - the website provides suggestions for compiling 
using dependencies from MacPorts, …


In my experience (on OSX 10.9.5 and Mojave) … install Lilypond and Frescobaldi 
… quite easily with MacPorts (lilypond-devel and frescobaldi-devel).


...


I tried to install lilypond-devel on MacPorts "sudo port install 
lilypond-devel" with no success:


Error: Failed to build lilypond-devel: command execution failed
Error: See 
/opt/local/var/macports/logs/_opt_local_var_macports_sources_rsync.macports.org_release_tarballs_ports_textproc_lilypond-devel/lilypond-devel/main.log 
for details.

Error: Follow https://guide.macports.org/#project.tickets to report a bug.
Error: Processing of port lilypond-devel failed

Unfortunately I am not able to resolve the problem myself.
I could post the log if someone is willing to look at it and help.

MacOS 10.14.6
Xcode 11.0

Thank you,
Thomas

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Lilypond on OS X Catalina

[Hans Åberg]

> On 13 Sep 2019, at 19:30, Henning Hraban Ramm  wrote:
> 
>> Am 2019-09-13 um 19:15 schrieb Allan Kinnaird via lilypond-user 
>> :
>> 
>> Apple flagged on the release of Mojave that it would be the last version of 
>> OS X to support 32-bit applications, and the indications are that Catalina 
>> will only operate with 64-bit applications.
>> On a system analysis, Lilypond is the only significant application I have 
>> still showing as 32-bit.
>> Is anyone working on a Catalina compilation of Lilypond? If so, when might 
>> the package be posted?
>> I am willing to try compiling from source, in spite of recommendations 
>> against on the website.
>> I know there may be problems - the website provides suggestions for 
>> compiling using dependencies from MacPorts, …
> 
> In my experience (on OSX 10.9.5 and Mojave) … install Lilypond and 
> Frescobaldi … quite easily with MacPorts (lilypond-devel and 
> frescobaldi-devel).

At least the first one is supported (actively maintained), and one installs (as 
root) with
  port install lilypond-devel
with no other hands-on installation other than making the program visible, 
which can be done with a script called say ‘lilypond’ in a suitable location 
with:
export LC_CTYPE=en_US.UTF-8
export LANG=en_US.UTF-8
exec /opt/local/bin/lilypond "$@"

I added the LC_CTYPE and LANG environment variables, because on MacOS they are 
set without a prefix ‘en_US.’ which may confuse some software.

The MacPorts installation only calls stuff inside /opt/ so it does not 
interfere with anything outside. If one is also using stuff in /usr/local/, 
then one will have to set the PATH appropriately. I have set /usr/local/ before 
/opt/local/.

As for MacOS 10.15, it may take some time to get MacPorts updated, in the past 
it has been some month or so after the new OS arrival.



___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Lilypond on OS X Catalina

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

> Am 2019-09-13 um 19:15 schrieb Allan Kinnaird via lilypond-user 
> :
> 
> Apologies if this is an inappropriate forum to raise this question, but I am 
> a Lilypond user wanting to to continue using Lilypond.
> Apple flagged on the release of Mojave that it would be the last version of 
> OS X to support 32-bit applications, and the indications are that Catalina 
> will only operate with 64-bit applications.
> On a system analysis, Lilypond is the only significant application I have 
> still showing as 32-bit.
> Is anyone working on a Catalina compilation of Lilypond? If so, when might 
> the package be posted?
> I am willing to try compiling from source, in spite of recommendations 
> against on the website.
> I know there may be problems - the website provides suggestions for compiling 
> using dependencies from MacPorts, while experience has guided me away from 
> MacPorts. I use Homebrew as my main package manager, and it does not play 
> well with MacPorts.

In my experience (on OSX 10.9.5 and Mojave), you can’t install Lilypond and 
Frescobaldi with HomeBrew, but quite easily with MacPorts (lilypond-devel and 
frescobaldi-devel).
For other applications HomeBrew might be better.
In principle these systems shouldn’t interfere with each other… (Worked for me 
while I didn’t try to compile other software against libraries installed with 
one of those.)

Greetlings, Hraban
---
fiëé visuëlle
Henning Hraban Ramm
https://www.fiee.net





___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user