Re: Looking for the proper term to search for... like a... prelude? maybe?

[Jean Abou Samra]

On 7/5/22 16:03, Kevin Cole wrote:
But your answer makes more sense to me and is what I really want to go 
with. (The introduction starts with a "\partial" and ends with an 
incomplete measure also. Then, when the vocals start it's another 
"\partial".) I just have no idea what the syntax for starting a new 
staff "late" is.



This?

\version "2.23.10"

\new Voice = voice {
  \partial 8
  c'8
  c'1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2..
  \break
  <<
    { 8 1 1 }
    \new Lyrics \lyricsto voice {
  foo bar baz
    }
  >>
}


Note that you no longer need \bar "" with \break in 2.23.10.
You should add \bar "" in 2.22.

Best,
Jean

Re: Looking for the proper term to search for... like a... prelude? maybe?

[Kevin Cole]

On Tue, Jul 5, 2022 at 10:07 PM Andrew Bernard 
wrote:

> Hi Kevin,
>
> For an eight bar intro you would normally leave the vocal line staff and
> use full bar rests. This actually makes it easier for the vocalist, and
> if you were making parts you would have to do this anyway. I would not
> try to hide the intro staff in this case.
>

I'm merely transcribing what I see on paper as accurately as I can. Since
it didn't show any vocal line until the ninth measure (immediately after a
break) it seemed like the "right" thing to do.

%
\new Staff \with {
  \RemoveAllEmptyStaves
}
%

did  the trick (along with the afore-mentioned "\bar" and "\break' at the
end of the "short" measure at the end of the piano "solo" introduction and
before the partial measure where the voice starts.

Frenched usually refers to omitting whole empty systems and is used to
> make symphonic scores more compact. Just omitting a staff for a few bars
> is not generally thought of as Frenching, technically speaking.
>

Someone else brought up "French". I'd never heard of it til it was
mentioned in a response but it's good to know the terms, even if I'm not
doing symphonic stuff, just simple folk melodies and occasionally acoustic
rock.

Re: Looking for the proper term to search for... like a... prelude? maybe?

[Kevin Cole]

On Tue, Jul 5, 2022 at 8:47 PM William  wrote:

Kevin, if you don’t mind, I’m interested what you mean by the first system
> ending with a partial measure and the second system including vocals
> beginning with a partial measure? If you mean to break in the middle of one
> continuous measure, you could do this without partials via. \bar “” \break
>

I'm on vacation and continuing with LilyPond in my down hours. So, I
haven't been reading e-mail as quickly as normal. You've interpreted what I
meant exactly, but I managed to figure out that adding a \bar was required.
I had the \break but that wasn't enough.

Re: Looking for the proper term to search for... like a... prelude? maybe?

[Andrew Bernard]

Hi Kevin,

For an eight bar intro you would normally leave the vocal line staff and 
use full bar rests. This actually makes it easier for the vocalist, and 
if you were making parts you would have to do this anyway. I would not 
try to hide the intro staff in this case.


Frenched usually refers to omitting whole empty systems and is used to 
make symphonic scores more compact. Just omitting a staff for a few bars 
is not generally thought of as Frenching, technically speaking.


Andrew

Re: Looking for the proper term to search for... like a... prelude? maybe?

[William]

Kevin, if you don’t mind, I’m interested what you mean by the first system 
ending with a partial measure and the second system including vocals beginning 
with a partial measure? If you mean to break in the middle of one continuous 
measure, you could do this without partials via. \bar “” \break

-will

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 5, 2022, at 10:05, Kevin Cole  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On Tue, Jul 5, 2022 at 9:54 AM H. S. Teoh via LilyPond user discussion 
>>  wrote:
>> On Tue, Jul 05, 2022 at 09:38:31AM -0400, Kevin Cole wrote:
>> >With my very limited knowledge of music theory, I don't know what 
>> > term(s)
>> >to search for. 
>> >I have a piece of music that starts with eight measures of piano, before
>> >the vocal part comes in. So, it only shows the treble and bass clef 
>> > staves
>> >for eight measures, and then adds another staff when the vocals start.
>> 
>> Usually that's called an introduction?  "Prelude" literally would mean
>> the same thing, except that "prelude" is usually used to mean a
>> standalone extended movement meant to introduce a larger work -- 8 bars
>> would be a little short for that.
> 
> Yeah, I tried using "introduction" as one of my search terms originally, but 
> given how often the word is used, I got too many irrelevant hits.
>> 
>> >I'm guessing that once I know what it's called I can read up on it
>> >in the documentation and / or find a good example of how to code
>> >that in LilyPond.
>> >(I thought perhaps I could "cheat" and use something like lots of
>> >"s1" followed by a "\break" and it might hide that portion of the
>> >vocals because nothing's happening, but it didn't work and I
>> >suspect that's not the right way to think about it anyway.)
>> >Thanks.
>> 
>> You could create a new vocal staff start 8 bars into the music; that
>> would have the intended effect, I think.
> 
> This is exactly what I want to do, but since I didn't know how, I tried 
> searching for "introduction", "solo", "prelude", etc. and not finding what I 
> was looking for.
> 
> After my initial question, I found this:  
> https://music.stackexchange.com/a/118864/17117
> which seems to be solving the problem in a different way. 
> 
> But your answer makes more sense to me and is what I really want to go with. 
> (The introduction starts with a "\partial" and ends with an incomplete 
> measure also. Then, when the vocals start it's another "\partial".) I just 
> have no idea what the syntax for starting a new staff "late" is.
> 
> I searched for "introduction" but get too many hits.
>> T
>> 
>> -- 
>> Almost all proofs have bugs, but almost all theorems are true. -- Paul 
>> Pedersen
> 
> 
> -- 
> Physical
> 
> Kevin Cole, RHCE
> ("ubuntourist")
> Brain-Washington,
> Disenfranchised City
> Virtual
> Git: 
> https://codeberg.org/ubuntourist/
> CV: 
> https://stackoverflow.com/cv/ubuntourist/
> LinkedIn: 
> https://linkedin.com/in/ubuntourist/
> GPG Key ID:   0x3E696927

Re: Looking for the proper term to search for... like a... prelude? maybe?

[Karlin High]

On 7/5/2022 9:03 AM, Kevin Cole wrote:

I just have no idea what the syntax for starting a new staff "late" is.


From this email list I learned the term "Frenched Score." It refers to 
removing unused staves, and is explained at the documentation link given 
earlier:




Which place also shows the \RemoveAllEmptyStaves command for doing that.

For the vocal staff starting 8 measures later, I'd try giving it 
full-measure rests like { R1 } until it's ready to start.

--
Karlin High
Missouri, USA

Re: Looking for the proper term to search for... like a... prelude? maybe?

[Kevin Cole]

On Tue, Jul 5, 2022 at 9:54 AM H. S. Teoh via LilyPond user discussion <
lilypond-user@gnu.org> wrote:

> On Tue, Jul 05, 2022 at 09:38:31AM -0400, Kevin Cole wrote:
> >With my very limited knowledge of music theory, I don't know what
> term(s)
> >to search for.
> >I have a piece of music that starts with eight measures of piano,
> before
> >the vocal part comes in. So, it only shows the treble and bass clef
> staves
> >for eight measures, and then adds another staff when the vocals start.
>
> Usually that's called an introduction?  "Prelude" literally would mean
> the same thing, except that "prelude" is usually used to mean a
> standalone extended movement meant to introduce a larger work -- 8 bars
> would be a little short for that.
>

Yeah, I tried using "introduction" as one of my search terms originally,
but given how often the word is used, I got too many irrelevant hits.

>
> >I'm guessing that once I know what it's called I can read up on it
> >in the documentation and / or find a good example of how to code
> >that in LilyPond.
> >(I thought perhaps I could "cheat" and use something like lots of
> >"s1" followed by a "\break" and it might hide that portion of the
> >vocals because nothing's happening, but it didn't work and I
> >suspect that's not the right way to think about it anyway.)
> >Thanks.
>
> You could create a new vocal staff start 8 bars into the music; that
> would have the intended effect, I think.
>

This is exactly what I want to do, but since I didn't know how, I tried
searching for "introduction", "solo", "prelude", etc. and not finding what
I was looking for.

After my initial question, I found this:
https://music.stackexchange.com/a/118864/17117
which seems to be solving the problem in a different way.

But your answer makes more sense to me and is what I really want to go
with. (The introduction starts with a "\partial" and ends with an
incomplete measure also. Then, when the vocals start it's another
"\partial".) I just have no idea what the syntax for starting a new staff
"late" is.

I searched for "introduction" but get too many hits.

> T
>
> --
> Almost all proofs have bugs, but almost all theorems are true. -- Paul
> Pedersen
>
>

-- 
Physical
[image: [Photo: Kevin Cole]]
Kevin Cole, RHCE 
("ubuntourist")
Brain-Washington,
Disenfranchised City
Virtual
Git:
https://codeberg.org/ubuntourist/
CV:
https://stackoverflow.com/cv/ubuntourist/
LinkedIn:
https://linkedin.com/in/ubuntourist/
GPG Key ID:  0x3E696927 

Re: Looking for the proper term to search for... like a... prelude? maybe?

[H. S. Teoh]

On Tue, Jul 05, 2022 at 09:38:31AM -0400, Kevin Cole wrote:
>With my very limited knowledge of music theory, I don't know what term(s)
>to search for. 
>I have a piece of music that starts with eight measures of piano, before
>the vocal part comes in. So, it only shows the treble and bass clef staves
>for eight measures, and then adds another staff when the vocals start.

Usually that's called an introduction?  "Prelude" literally would mean
the same thing, except that "prelude" is usually used to mean a
standalone extended movement meant to introduce a larger work -- 8 bars
would be a little short for that.


>I'm guessing that once I know what it's called I can read up on it
>in the documentation and / or find a good example of how to code
>that in LilyPond.
>(I thought perhaps I could "cheat" and use something like lots of
>"s1" followed by a "\break" and it might hide that portion of the
>vocals because nothing's happening, but it didn't work and I
>suspect that's not the right way to think about it anyway.)
>Thanks.

You could create a new vocal staff start 8 bars into the music; that
would have the intended effect, I think.


T

-- 
Almost all proofs have bugs, but almost all theorems are true. -- Paul Pedersen

Re: Looking for the proper term to search for... like a... prelude? maybe?

[TamuraJun]

Hi!

Maybe 
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.22/Documentation/notation/modifying-single-staves.html#hiding-staves
 


> 2022/07/05 22:38、Kevin Cole のメール:
> 
> With my very limited knowledge of music theory, I don't know what term(s) to 
> search for. 
> 
> I have a piece of music that starts with eight measures of piano, before the 
> vocal part comes in. So, it only shows the treble and bass clef staves for 
> eight measures, and then adds another staff when the vocals start.
> 
> I'm guessing that once I know what it's called I can read up on it in the 
> documentation and / or find a good example of how to code that in LilyPond.
> 
> (I thought perhaps I could "cheat" and use something like lots of "s1" 
> followed by a "\break" and it might hide that portion of the vocals because 
> nothing's happening, but it didn't work and I suspect that's not the right 
> way to think about it anyway.)
> 
> Thanks.
> 
>