Re: What can Premusic do that others can't?

[Bernardo Barros]

On 3/21/17 8:52 PM, msk...@ansuz.sooke.bc.ca wrote:

FWIW, I've written algorithmically-generated music with irrational
durations by a process described at
http://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/professional/music/notes-on-notes-on-the-plane.pdf

 and I think it came out pretty well.  It's not deliberately written
with irrational timing just to be annoying; the square roots come
naturally from the underlying geometric model and couldn't be easily
removed without compromising that in a significant way.
Unfortunately, the audio recordings are currently offline because I
stopped paying for SoundCloud, but I plan to put them back online
elsewhere within a month or two, and could provide files on request
if anyone asks me off-list.



That's really interesting. Thanks for sharing.

I was not making an argument against it. My point was that we usually we
are too biased by traditional notation, and put non powers of two
divisions in the "really difficult" place when it is not the case.

BTW Conlon Nancarrow also has used irrational tempi.



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Re: What can Premusic do that others can't?

[mskala]

On Tue, 21 Mar 2017, Flaming Hakama by Elaine wrote:
> The only time I've even seen an attempt at irrational durations was in the
> one other thread on this list that was actually more annoying, more
> aggressive and differently clueless.  I believe the intended durations were
> 1/sqrt(71) or something equally undiscernable.

FWIW, I've written algorithmically-generated music with irrational
durations by a process described at
   http://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/professional/music/notes-on-notes-on-the-plane.pdf

and I think it came out pretty well.  It's not deliberately written with
irrational timing just to be annoying; the square roots come naturally
from the underlying geometric model and couldn't be easily removed without
compromising that in a significant way.  Unfortunately, the audio
recordings are currently offline because I stopped paying for SoundCloud,
but I plan to put them back online elsewhere within a month or two, and
could provide files on request if anyone asks me off-list.

I used Lilypond to do some notation examples in that document, but I
didn't attempt to create a complete score of the composition in music
notation nor figure out what such a thing would sensibly look like.  It's
not intended for human performance and the actual score is a set of Csound
files.

-- 
Matthew Skala
msk...@ansuz.sooke.bc.ca People before principles.
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Re: What can Premusic do that others can't?

[Flaming Hakama by Elaine]

Subject: Re: What can Premusic do that others can't?
> On 3/21/17 4:35 AM, Malte Meyn wrote:
>
>>
>> Am 21.03.2017 um 06:46 schrieb have@anti.capital:
>>
>>> A composer who uses an irrational tuplet is a composer who is going out
>>> of his way to exclude his music from comfortable notation.
>>>
>> Oh, I think that these irrational tuplets are comfortable to write easy
>> to understand if you
>>
>
> Why one calls them 'irrationals'? they are rational number ratios just as
> any ordinary notation, unless you're referring to a tuplet of π (pi) or
> log2 3...
>
> They look difficult because we put them in a special "difficult" place.
> Unlike Carnatic musicians, who just learn rationals and "irrationals" as
> two categories of the same things since the beginning. Stop that.
>

There are so many other reasons why this "premusic" format is a silly
concept.

Do we really need to bring up the topic of "irrational tuplets" to make
this point?

The only time I've even seen an attempt at irrational durations was in the
one other thread on this list that was actually more annoying, more
aggressive and differently clueless.  I believe the intended durations were
1/sqrt(71) or something equally undiscernable.


My general observation on this "premusic" concept is that it is an attempt
to abstract some aspects of musical content (namely, pitch name, rhythm and
lyrics), and ignoring others (like dynamics, tempo, even the octave of the
pitch is ambiguous in your "perfect" system, as well as tempo, markup,
etc.), without any consideration of how to actually notate it.

Even if this format were useful for someone to input or edit the incomplete
musical information it models, in order to actually engrave a piece of
sheet music, you would have to have another layer on top to contain all of
that information:  grouping for beams, the orientation of slurs and
articulations, barlines, how staves are grouped into staff groups, etc.


I hope that what you take away from this discussion includes:

o You have not fully considered what is required to define music even in an
abstract way, so your design is not useful for people who are trying to
process, manage or manipulate musical content.

o You have not at all considered what information is required to define
sheet music (which goes beyond the abstract musical representation), so
your design is not useful for people who are trying to produce sheet music.

o Your proposed file format--even assuming that we don't care about all the
ways in which the problem it claims to solve is not even considered, let
alone solved--is not convenient:  it is difficult to view, to read and to
manage.


Best of luck,

David Elaine Alt
415 . 341 .4954   "*Confusion is
highly underrated*"
ela...@flaminghakama.com
self-immolation.info
skype: flaming_hakama
Producer ~ Composer ~ Instrumentalist
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
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Re: What can Premusic do that others can't?

[Bernardo Barros]

On 3/21/17 4:35 AM, Malte Meyn wrote:


Am 21.03.2017 um 06:46 schrieb have@anti.capital:

A composer who uses an irrational tuplet is a composer who is going out of his 
way to exclude his music from comfortable notation.

Oh, I think that these irrational tuplets are comfortable to write easy
to understand if you


Why one calls them 'irrationals'? they are rational number ratios just 
as any ordinary notation, unless you're referring to a tuplet of π (pi) 
or log2 3...


They look difficult because we put them in a special "difficult" place. 
Unlike Carnatic musicians, who just learn rationals and "irrationals" 
as two categories of the same things since the beginning. Stop that.


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Re: What can Premusic do that others can't?

[David Kastrup]

 writes:

>  I think that I should append a disclaimer to my format: I don't
>  intend it to be more comfortably sight-read than sheet music is and
>  will be. I simply intend to create an analogue of .txt where there is
>  only .docx and .odt. It is perfectly legible for simple pieces, and
>  perhaps an environment like Frescobaldi could be configured to
>  real-time display Premusic code as its appropriate sheet music for
>  more complex pieces - that environment would make my format into a
>  very formidable one indeed.

So you want it to be AsciiDoc for music.  Tablatures are actually
already done frequently in a somewhat similar manner and work reasonably
well for guitar music that is not too complicated.

For lots of music, the format's relation between visual and musical
complexity is not good enough to convey musical sense fast enough.  Even
for guitar music, it clutters the field of vision much more with symbols
than ASCII tablature does.

Mathematicians don't converse in ASCII notation but graphical formulas,
even if some of them are reasonably versed in looking at TeX notation.

Something like

Dies ist
\begin{multline}
\label{eq:51}
  f(t+\Delta t,x) = \beta\frac{d(x)}{d(x)+d(x-\Delta x)}
f(t,x-\Delta x)\\
  + (1-2\beta + \beta \frac{d(x)}{d(x)+d(x+\Delta x)}
+ \beta\frac{d(x)}{d(x)+d(x-\Delta x)})\,f(t,x)\\
  + \beta\frac{d(x)}{d(x)+d(x+\Delta x)}\,f(t,x+\Delta x)
\end{multline}
Für die weitere Herleitung kürzen wir jetzt die Ableitung etwa von $d$
nach der Ortskoordinate~$x$ mit $d'$ ab.

is quite harder to peruse than

Dies ist
Für die weitere Herleitung kürzen wir jetzt die Ableitung etwa von nach der Ortskoordinate~ mit  ab.

Music is similar in that respect.  AsciiDoc has a much simpler task
since its principal substance is letters and it is used for structuring
text.  Nevertheless it has not become the bees' knees of documentation
writing, it is just one semipopular way of doing things.

There are numerous forms of piano roll notation that are a lot better
candidates for playing material than your proposal.  Maybe you should
look at them for inspiration.

-- 
David Kastrup
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Re: What can Premusic do that others can't?

[David Wright]

On Tue 21 Mar 2017 at 09:21:43 (-0700), have@anti.capital wrote:
>  I think that I should append a disclaimer to my format: I don't intend it to 
> be more comfortably sight-read than sheet music is and will be. I simply 
> intend to create an analogue of .txt where there is only .docx and .odt. It 
> is perfectly legible for simple pieces, and perhaps an environment like 
> Frescobaldi could be configured to real-time display Premusic code as its 
> appropriate sheet music for more complex pieces - that environment would make 
> my format into a very formidable one indeed.
>  
> Johan, mine's got less shortcomings though.
>  
> Irrational note lengths could be achieved with another square character.
>  
> Here is a four-beat measure with a pi note followed by rest.
>  
>   a* = pi minus three
> 
> []rh daa*||
>  
>  
>  
> And with that, I extended my format to meet the challenge. Does anyone else 
> have any irrational ABC or Guido code? Chopin? If not, I still have the best 
> format. QED.

No, no, mine's the longest! Look:

 antidisestablishmentarianismIST

> - Earlier Message -
> Subject: Re: What can Premusic do that others can't?
> Date: 3/21/17 5:26 am
> To: lilypond-user@gnu.org
> 
> Am 20.03.2017 um 22:48 schrieb have@anti.capital:
>  
>  > I have invented the perfect plaintext file format for premusic.

Oh, sorry; wrong mailing list.

Cheers,
David.

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RE: Re: What can Premusic do that others can't?

[have]

 I think that I should append a disclaimer to my format: I don't intend it to 
be more comfortably sight-read than sheet music is and will be. I simply intend 
to create an analogue of .txt where there is only .docx and .odt. It is 
perfectly legible for simple pieces, and perhaps an environment like 
Frescobaldi could be configured to real-time display Premusic code as its 
appropriate sheet music for more complex pieces - that environment would make 
my format into a very formidable one indeed.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Johan, mine's got less shortcomings though.
 
Irrational note lengths could be achieved with another square character.
 
Here is a four-beat measure with a pi note followed by rest.
 
  a* = pi minus three

[]rh daa*||
 
 
 
And with that, I extended my format to meet the challenge. Does anyone else 
have any irrational ABC or Guido code? Chopin? If not, I still have the best 
format. QED.
 
- Original Message - Subject: Re: What can Premusic do that 
others can't?
From: "Johan Vromans" <jvrom...@squirrel.nl>
Date: 3/21/17 5:26 am
To: lilypond-user@gnu.org

Am 20.03.2017 um 22:48 schrieb have@anti.capital:
 
 > I have invented the perfect plaintext file format for premusic.
 
 I think the bottom line is that all text-based music notation systems have
 shortcomings when it comes to readability, writability, maintainability
 etc. From all imperfect systems we choose the one we like most, where
 "like" is very subjective. It it gets us where we want to, it is a good
 choice.
 
 Some people like to program in C, other people prefer Perl, some program
 in Java. And some even think that HTML is a programming language.
 
 
 
 
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 lilypond-user@gnu.org
 https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
 
"Oh, I think that these irrational tuplets are comfortable to write easy to 
understand if you use traditional notation."
 
It is not acceptable that the only method of conveying that information is to 
write it down on sheets of paper as has been done for centuries and then create 
a very complicated file format to describe those sheets of paper as have been 
done for centuries.
 
"If you're interested I'll do a quick search and find some more music by 
not-cornercase-composers that breaks your format."
 
Please do! I'll meet the challenge, and continue to prove I have the best 
plaintext format.
 
"So here is the point where your format is readable neither for humans nor for 
computers."
 
See note at the top of this message.
 
"So the most powerful terminal editors like vim and emacs just aren't good 
enough for your genius format? Sad but probably their fault. Oh wait: It's not 
the choice of editor that makes these files uncomfortable to handle with."
"Yes, there are people that'll do exactly this. (Ok, I prefer vim but that's 
not the point here.)"
 
You don't need a "the most powerful editor" for this because it isn't a format 
that the features of those editors are catered to. I hate to break it to you, 
but sometimes unmaximized CLI isn't the most comfortable text environment to 
work in. Put it in Gedit, maximize, maybe turn the text size down if you must, 
and enjoy. Have any of you actually tried transcribing simple music into my 
format yet?
 
- Original Message - Subject: Re: What can Premusic do that 
others can't?
From: "Malte Meyn" <lilyp...@maltemeyn.de>
Date: 3/21/17 3:35 am
To: lilypond-user@gnu.org


 
 Am 21.03.2017 um 06:46 schrieb have@anti.capital:
 > A composer who uses an irrational tuplet is a composer who is going out of 
 > his way to exclude his music from comfortable notation. 
 Oh, I think that these irrational tuplets are comfortable to write easy
 to understand if you use traditional notation.
 
 > I'm not too concerned about that corner case of corner cases and am frankly 
 > honored you have to dig so deep to try and break my format.
 If you're interested I'll do a quick search and find some more music by
 not-cornercase-composers that breaks your format.
 
 > But in any case, there's precisely nothing to stop you from approximating as 
 > far as you want, with an explanatory comment appended if needed.
 So here is the point where your format is readable neither for humans
 nor for computers.
 
 > Nor am I concerned if my plaintext file format is not as comfortable in 
 > terminal editors as it is in the GUI text editors that everyone has and most 
 > people use.
 So the most powerful terminal editors like vim and emacs just aren't
 good enough for your genius format? Sad but probably their fault. Oh
 wait: It's not the choice of editor that makes these files uncomfortable
 to handle with.
 
 > I note that Ctrl-U (view source) renders it perfectly in Firefox. Is anyone 
 >

Re: What can Premusic do that others can't?

[Johan Vromans]

Am 20.03.2017 um 22:48 schrieb have@anti.capital:

> I have invented the perfect plaintext file format for premusic.

I think the bottom line is that all text-based music notation systems have
shortcomings when it comes to readability, writability, maintainability
etc. From all imperfect systems we choose the one we like most, where
"like" is very subjective. It it gets us where we want to, it is a good
choice.

Some people like to program in C, other people prefer Perl, some program
in Java. And some even think that HTML is a programming language.




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Re: What can Premusic do that others can't?

[Malte Meyn]

Am 21.03.2017 um 10:18 schrieb Hans Åberg:
> 
>> On 21 Mar 2017, at 00:40, Werner LEMBERG  wrote:
>>
>>> As an example of what David is mentioning, have a look at the attached
>>> png image (taken from Chopin's prelude op. 28/24) and try to notate
>>> this.
>>
>> Oops, wrong image.  Here's the right one.
> 
> The whole piece, with score, is at:
>   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIsCvQPOdcM

Nice, I think I know what I’ll study next after my piano exam.

Apart from that this brings to me the question how grace notes which
don’t really take any time at all are compatible with Vac’s dadadada
rhythm notation.

(By the way: I think that the way LilyPond handles it (using “grace” and
“real time”) is pretty good but not perfect. \grace only needs grace
time but \afterGrace needs real time for vertical alignment (but not for
input of the notes)—it would be nice to have 1. \grace before barlines
and 2. grace/afterGrace notes that are vertically aligned indepentently
from real time notes if you don’t want them between the real notes. And
maybe 3. some function that helps to align f. e. 7 grace notes in the
right and 6 in the left hand without having to scale them by hand -> a
function that takes notes and scales them so that they get a given total
length. Maybe if I find some time I’ll make some sketches that
illustrate 2. and pseudo code that illustrates 3.)

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Re: What can Premusic do that others can't?

[Hans Åberg]

> On 21 Mar 2017, at 00:40, Werner LEMBERG  wrote:
> 
>> As an example of what David is mentioning, have a look at the attached
>> png image (taken from Chopin's prelude op. 28/24) and try to notate
>> this.
> 
> Oops, wrong image.  Here's the right one.

The whole piece, with score, is at:
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIsCvQPOdcM



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Re: What can Premusic do that others can't?

[Malte Meyn]

Am 21.03.2017 um 06:46 schrieb have@anti.capital:
> A composer who uses an irrational tuplet is a composer who is going out of 
> his way to exclude his music from comfortable notation. 
Oh, I think that these irrational tuplets are comfortable to write easy
to understand if you use traditional notation.

> I'm not too concerned about that corner case of corner cases and am frankly 
> honored you have to dig so deep to try and break my format.
If you’re interested I’ll do a quick search and find some more music by
not-cornercase-composers that breaks your format.

> But in any case, there's precisely nothing to stop you from approximating as 
> far as you want, with an explanatory comment appended if needed.
So here is the point where your format is readable neither for humans
nor for computers.

> Nor am I concerned if my plaintext file format is not as comfortable in 
> terminal editors as it is in the GUI text editors that everyone has and most 
> people use.
So the most powerful terminal editors like vim and emacs just aren’t
good enough for your genius format? Sad but probably their fault. Oh
wait: It’s not the choice of editor that makes these files uncomfortable
to handle with.

> I note that Ctrl-U (view source) renders it perfectly in Firefox. Is anyone 
> going to see a .premusic file online, save it, navigate to that location in 
> terminal, and be dismayed that the code is a little wide for their 
> unmaximized Emacs?
Yes, there are people that’ll do exactly this. (Ok, I prefer vim but
that’s not the point here.)

> If wraps become a necessity, then - fine! I'll make a wrap character. ;;
Ahaha, you thought you could do a complete score in just one line? I’ll
be happy to see your version of “Eine Alpensinfonie” by Richard Strauss.
I can imagine some text editors crashing on that. Maybe they won’t crash
if you insert line breaks but then you’ll need a very durable mouse wheel.

> ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: What can Premusic do that 
> others can't?
> From: "Werner LEMBERG" <w...@gnu.org>
> Date: 3/21/17 12:19 am
> To: have@anti.capital
> Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org
> 
>  You might create a description of your syntax on, say, github, also
>  setting up a mailing list to which interested people can subscribe.

For this description to be perfectly well-defined/unambiguous you’ll
need a masochist who loves formal languages/grammars, at least if some
day a computer program should be able to read these scores. And you’ll
want that because no human can do so.

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Re: [Auto-Reply] Re: Re: What can Premusic do that others can't?

[David Kastrup]

 writes:

>> On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 7:45 PM, have@anti.capital  wrote:
>>  > Viral Anticapital will get back to you shortly.
>>  >
>>  > If this is a throwaway email account, that's fine if unnecessary -
>>  > please remember to keep checking it, though!
>>  
>>  Seriously?
>
> Woah, I forgot about that. Haha, disabled signatures. Sorry folks.

It wasn't a signature but an autoresponder.  With a message "if you are
not reading your mail messages, please do so".

Seriously.

-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: What can Premusic do that others can't?

[David Kastrup]

Jacques Menu Muzhic  writes:

> Hello Have,
>
> I don’t understand what you mean by square characters: can you make that more
> clear?

Character pairs.  TTY dimensions mean that they occupy an almost square
area.

In an old video game I wrote, I used this kind of representation for
pregenerating graphics.


BBRRBLRR
YYBB
BBYY
BBRRBBYYBBYY
YYYYRRYYMMYYBBYYBLYY
BBBLYYBLBBYYMMYYBBBLBLYYBLBB
BLBLYYBLBLYYBLBBYYBBYYBBYYBLYYBLBLYYBLBL
BBBLBLYYBLBLYYBLBLBB
BBBLBLBLBLBLBLBB
BBYYYYBB
BLBLBLBLBBCCCCBBBLBLBLBL
BBYYBBCCBBBBCCBBYYBB
BBBLBLBLBLBBYYWWBBWWCCCCWWBBWWYYBBBLBLBLBLBB
BBBBCCCCBBBBCCCCBBBB
BLBLBLBLBLBBYYYYBBBLBLBLBLBL
YYBBWWWWBBYY
BLBLBLBLBLBBBBBLBLBLBLBL
BBYYBBBBYYBB
BBBLBLBLBLBLBLBLBBYYWWWWYYBBBLBLBLBLBLBLBLBB
BBYYBBBBYYBB
BLBLBLBLBLBLBLBLBLBBBBBLBLBLBLBLBLBLBLBL
BBBB
BLBLBLBLBLBLBLBLBLBLBLYYYYBLBLBLBLBLBLBLBLBLBLBL
BBYYYYBB
BBBLBLBLBLBLBLBLBLBLBLBLBBYYYYBBYYBLBLBLBLBLBLBLBLBLBLBB
BBBB
BBYYBBBLBLBLBLBLBLYYBBBBYYBLBLBLBLBLBLBBYYBB
YYBBBBBBBBYY
YYBBBLBLBLBLBLYYCCCCYYBLBLBLBLBLBBYY
BBYYBBYYMMCCYYYYCCMMYYBBYYBB
BBYYBBBLBLBLBLYYBBBBYYBLBLBLBLBBYYBB
BBYYCCMMBBYYBBBBYYBBMMCCYYBB
BBYYCCMMBBBLBLBLBLYYCCBBBBCCYYBLBLBLBLBBMMCCYYBB
BBYYCCMMBBYYCCBBBBCCYYBBMMCCYYBB
BBYYCCMMBBBLBLBLBLYYCCCCYYBLBLBLBLBBMMCCYYBB
BBYYCCMMBBYYCCCCYYBBMMCCYYBB
BBYYCCMMBBBLBLBLBLYYYYBLBLBLBLBBMMCCYYBB
BBYYCCMMCCBBBBCCMMCCYYBB
BBYYMMBBBLBLBLYYYYBLBLBLBBMMYYBB
BBYYMMCCBBYYYYBBCCMMYYBB
YYMMCCBBYYYYBBCCMMYY
YYCCCCYY
BBYYYYBB
YYCCCCYY
BBYYYYBB



It was 

RE: Re: What can Premusic do that others can't?

[have]

A composer who uses an irrational tuplet is a composer who is going out of his 
way to exclude his music from comfortable notation. I'm not too concerned about 
that corner case of corner cases and am frankly honored you have to dig so deep 
to try and break my format. But in any case, there's precisely nothing to stop 
you from approximating as far as you want, with an explanatory comment appended 
if needed.
 
Nor am I concerned if my plaintext file format is not as comfortable in 
terminal editors as it is in the GUI text editors that everyone has and most 
people use. I note that Ctrl-U (view source) renders it perfectly in Firefox. 
Is anyone going to see a .premusic file online, save it, navigate to that 
location in terminal, and be dismayed that the code is a little wide for their 
unmaximized Emacs?

 
If wraps become a necessity, then - fine! I'll make a wrap character. ;;
 
Happy Birthday
[]ly  Hap___birth___Hap___birth___
[]ly  _-py___-day-py___-day___
[]ly  __to__you!__to__
[]pi  D4D4||E4D4G4||F$--D4D4||E4D4A4||
[]rh  daad||dadada||daaadaad||dadada||

[]pi  D4--||--D4D4||A3--A3--||--A3A3||
[]pi  B3--||--B3B3||F#--F#--||--F#F#||
[]pi  G2--G3--||G2G3G3||D2--D3--D3--||D2D3D3||
[]rh  daaadaaa||dadada||daaadaaadaaa||dadada||
 

;;
 
Hap___birth___..._Hap___birth_
_-py___-day___...__-py___-day_
you!__dear_to__you!___
 
G4--D4D4||D5B4G4||F$--E4--C5C5||B4G4A4||G4
daaadaad||dadada||daaadaaadaad||dadada||daaa--
D4--D4--||--D4D4||G4--G4--||--D4D4||D4
B3--B3--||--B3B3||E3--E3--||--B3C4||B3
G2--G3--G3--||G2G3G3||C2--C3--C3--||G2G3F#||G3G2--
daaadaaadaaa||dadada||daaadaaadaad||dadada||dada--
 
- Original Message - Subject: Re: What can Premusic do that 
others can't?
From: "Werner LEMBERG" <w...@gnu.org>
Date: 3/21/17 12:19 am
To: have@anti.capital
Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org


 > Werner, thanks for asking. I scored the second image you sent me. At
 > least, the parts of music exemplifying the complexity of
 > Chopin. Slurs and everything else have to be
 > discussed. http://pastebin.com/raw/APgfGgQz Here is the code, but
 > you will have to paste it into a text editor to disable wrap to make
 > it legible.
 
 Mhmm, attached you can find your version where you have `one bar per
 line', so to say - there's still a bar where the block length is 657
 characters! Without my block breaking, the line length exceeds 1000
 characters. Sorry, but this is - at least for me - completely
 inacceptable. A readable text file has a maximum line length of 80
 characters, and it doesn't seem easy to break lines with your system
 manually. Needing a special editor or editor mode for writing and
 processing a text file is almost as worse as having a binary format...
 
 It seems that you always have to find a least common multiple for more
 complex stuff. I just want to mention that some composers use
 irrational numbers for tuplets. By the very definition, this can't be
 exactly represented with your system. It can't be exactly represented
 in lilypond either, but having large fractions doesn't make the line
 lengths explode.
 
 > My intent does have overlap with that of Lilypond, but I'll gladly
 > continue the discussion elsewhere if I'm unacceptably derailing -
 > I'd just ask that you suggest an elsewhere for me to take it first.
 > I've never started a project like this, and don't know where to go.
 
 You might create a description of your syntax on, say, github, also
 setting up a mailing list to which interested people can subscribe.
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Re: What can Premusic do that others can't?

[Werner LEMBERG]

> Werner, thanks for asking. I scored the second image you sent me. At
> least, the parts of music exemplifying the complexity of
> Chopin. Slurs and everything else have to be
> discussed. http://pastebin.com/raw/APgfGgQz Here is the code, but
> you will have to paste it into a text editor to disable wrap to make
> it legible.

Mhmm, attached you can find your version where you have `one bar per
line', so to say – there's still a bar where the block length is 657
characters!  Without my block breaking, the line length exceeds 1000
characters.  Sorry, but this is – at least for me – completely
inacceptable.  A readable text file has a maximum line length of 80
characters, and it doesn't seem easy to break lines with your system
manually.  Needing a special editor or editor mode for writing and
processing a text file is almost as worse as having a binary format...

It seems that you always have to find a least common multiple for more
complex stuff.  I just want to mention that some composers use
irrational numbers for tuplets.  By the very definition, this can't be
exactly represented with your system.  It can't be exactly represented
in lilypond either, but having large fractions doesn't make the line
lengths explode.

> My intent does have overlap with that of Lilypond, but I'll gladly
> continue the discussion elsewhere if I'm unacceptably derailing -
> I'd just ask that you suggest an elsewhere for me to take it first.
> I've never started a project like this, and don't know where to go.

You might create a description of your syntax on, say, github, also
setting up a mailing list to which interested people can subscribe.


Werner
[]pi  G4--A4F4||
[]ap  G4--||
[]ap  F4--||
[]rh  daaadaaa--da||

[]pi  C2G2F3C2G3--C2G2F3C2G3--||
[]rh  dadadadadaaadadadadadaaa||

[]pi  C4--||
[]ap  ||
[]ap  ||
[]rh  daaa||

[]pi  C2b2F3C2G3--C2b2F3C2G3--||
[]rh  dadadadadaaadadadadadaaa||

[]pi  
C4--D4--C4--B3--C4--D4--E4--F4--G4--A4--b4--C5--D5--E5--F5--G5--A5--b5--C6--D6--E6--F6--G6--A6--b6--C7--D7--E7--||
[]ap  
||
[]ap  
||
[]rh  
daaadaaadaaadaaadaaadaaadaaadaaadaaadaaadaaadaaadaaadaaadaaadaaadaaadaaadaaadaaadaaadaaadaaadaaadaaadaaadaaadaaa||

[]pi  

RE: Re: What can Premusic do that others can't?

[have]

 Very good, Jeffery, maybe the others can contribute to my study of methods of 
pronunciation of "dadadaaa".


Werner, thanks for asking. I scored the second image you sent me. At least, the 
parts of music exemplifying the complexity of Chopin. Slurs and everything else 
have to be discussed. http://pastebin.com/raw/APgfGgQz Here is the code, but 
you will have to paste it into a text editor to disable wrap to make it legible.

There's probably a few ways we could do the appogiatura, aside from that I 
used. We'll have to discuss it once a group is going.

Any other challenges? Anyone else care to score that piece in ABC or Guido or 
anything simpler than Lilypond or MusicXML? If not, I'll be taking the "perfect 
plaintext file format for premusic" award, Simon, thank you very much.


My intent does have overlap with that of Lilypond, but I'll gladly continue the 
discussion elsewhere if I'm unacceptably derailing - I'd just ask that you 
suggest an elsewhere for me to take it first. I've never started a project like 
this, and don't know where to go.
 
VAC

 
- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: What can Premusic do that 
others can't?
From: "Werner LEMBERG" <w...@gnu.org>
Date: 3/20/17 6:40 pm
To: d...@gnu.org
Cc: have@anti.capital, lilypond-user@gnu.org


 > As an example of what David is mentioning, have a look at the attached
 > png image (taken from Chopin's prelude op. 28/24) and try to notate
 > this.
 
 Oops, wrong image. Here's the right one.
 
 
 Werner
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Re: What can Premusic do that others can't?

[Simon Albrecht]

Am 20.03.2017 um 22:48 schrieb have@anti.capital:

I have invented the perfect plaintext file format for premusic.


Sorry, but I find this preposterous as well as amusing…
You really need to be somewhat aware of the complexity of the problem, 
before you can start a salespitch for the solution.


Yours, Simon
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Fwd: Re: Re: What can Premusic do that others can't?

[Jeffery Shivers]

-- Forwarded message --
From:  <have@anti.capital>
Date: Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 8:20 PM
Subject: RE: Re: Re: What can Premusic do that others can't?
To: Jeffery Shivers <jefferyshiv...@gmail.com>


I'm interested to know how you would pronounce the phrase "Can't
anyone read 'dadadaaa'?". Could you supply an audio recording?

I have a hypothesis that you and most anyone would pronounce it more
or less exactly as would accurately represent two quarter notes and a
half note. What's more, should that be the case, then it renders my
format's rhythm intelligible to a newly literate three-year-old with
less instruction than any part of sheet music, and it becomes
pointless to obfuscate the meaning by using any symbols other than
"dadadaaa".



- Original Message -----
Subject: Re: Re: What can Premusic do that others can't?
From: "Jeffery Shivers" <jefferyshiv...@gmail.com>
Date: 3/20/17 6:44 pm
To: have@anti.capital, "Lilypond-User Mailing List" <lilypond-user@gnu.org>

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 7:04 PM, <have@anti.capital> wrote:
> []tm 108
> []dy ff
>
> Fermatas I want to discuss with others before I make very specific plans. I
> don't see much reason for an entire newline of squares for fermatas, when
> "daa!" could be equivalent to "daaa" with a fermata. That's just one way to
> do it.
>
>
> - Original Message -
> Subject: Re: What can Premusic do that others can't?
> From: "Malte Meyn" <lilyp...@maltemeyn.de>
> Date: 3/20/17 5:14 pm
> To: lilypond-user@gnu.org
>
>
>
> Am 20.03.2017 um 22:48 schrieb have@anti.capital:
>> These are the first measures of Beethoven's Fifth in premusic.
>
> This is missing tempo, fermatas and dynamics.
>
> _______
> lilypond-user mailing list
> lilypond-user@gnu.org
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
>
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> Subject: Re: What can Premusic do that others can't?
> From: "David Kastrup" <d...@gnu.org>
> Date: 3/20/17 5:16 pm
> To: have@anti.capital
> Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org
>
> <have@anti.capital> writes:
>
>> Why don't I ask you to name a notation that does something that
>> Parallel Squares could NOT do? Or, if I reversed the roles, and every
>> tune on http://abcnotation.com were in my notation, and I approached,
>> telling you about the ABC or GUIDO notation I invented, would you see
>> any merit in it, or any real reason to implement ABC or GUIDO... Ever?
>
> Sure. LilyPond was created by the same authors who wrote Mpp, a music
> preprocessor for MusiXTeX which is somewhat similarly compact and
> cryptic as your proposal.
>
> Semilinear notations haven't made the race in math (how great it would
> be if you'd express every mathematical formula in FORTRAN, how easy to
> understand and derive proofs, right?) or in music (Gregorian neumes are
> basically linearly written and preceded the square notation which
> followed it).
>
> How do you expect to notate heptuplets against trioles? Least common
> multiple? Good luck reading your voice as set against that of other
> voices and figuring out the relation to the beat. Have you tried
> setting some polyrhythmic Chopin with your system and actually _playing_
> it?
>
> What is your actual musical background and proficiency?
>
>> But in any case, I am not a programmer, and have never participated in
>> the creation of free software.
>
> Are you a musician? What instrument do you play at what level of
> proficiency?
>
>> Before you dismiss my format, and now that you have a sense for how it
>> works, I implore you to at least try composing in a text editor, any
>> piece of music, simple for now, to feel how natural it is. Think about
>> what this could do - one could comfortably convey all the information
>> conveyed by sheet music, using only notepad.exe.
>
> Reality check: LilyPond source can be written using only notepad.exe and
> conveys all the information written down. So can abc. So can Mpp,
> MusixTeX, MuTeX and others.
>
>> There's nothing like it.
>
> That is not valuable in itself.
>
> --
> David Kastrup
>
> I am having trouble finding examples of MPP code to look at. Could you help
> me out? And what about my code is so cryptic? Can't anyone read a
> "dadadaaa"?

No. Probably for the same reason *anyone* can't just read binary code.

You might be able to sell that to those violin playing robots in Japan though.

>
> I want to look at algebra at a later date. I feel it's fallen victim to the
> same issues as premusic - over-reverence o

Re: Re: What can Premusic do that others can't?

[mskala]

Please trim quotes in replies.

On Mon, 20 Mar 2017, Jeffery Shivers wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 7:04 PM,   wrote:
> > me out? And what about my code is so cryptic? Can't anyone read a
> > "dadadaaa"?
>
> No. Probably for the same reason *anyone* can't just read binary code.
>
> You might be able to sell that to those violin playing robots in Japan though.

I think they would prefer "ダダダーー".  ASCII isn't universal and there
are good reasons for Unicode, even the parts that are hard to type on "the
keyboard everybody has."

-- 
Matthew Skala
msk...@ansuz.sooke.bc.ca People before principles.
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RE: Re: [Auto-Reply] Re: Re: What can Premusic do that others can't?

[have]

Woah, I forgot about that. Haha, disabled signatures. Sorry folks.
 
- Original Message - Subject: Re: [Auto-Reply] Re: Re: What can 
Premusic do that others can't?
From: "Jeffery Shivers" <jefferyshiv...@gmail.com>
Date: 3/20/17 6:49 pm
To: "Lilypond-User Mailing List" <lilypond-user@gnu.org>

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 7:45 PM, have@anti.capital <have@anti.capital> wrote:
 > Viral Anticapital will get back to you shortly.
 >
 > If this is a throwaway email account, that's fine if unnecessary - please 
 > remember to keep checking it, though!
 
 Seriously?
 
 -- 
 
 Jeffery Shivers
 jefferyshivers.com
 soundcloud.com/jefferyshivers
 
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Re: What can Premusic do that others can't?

[Juan Cristóbal Cerrillo]

Shouldn’t this discussion be happening elsewhere?
The relevance to Lilypond is what exactly?

best,

jc

> On Mar 20, 2017, at 5:42 PM, Jacques Menu Muzhic  
> wrote:
> 
> Hello Have,
> 
> I don’t understand what you mean by square characters: can you make that more 
> clear?
> 
> There are text editors you can use I guess for the parallel aspect of what 
> seems to be a measure-wise notation IIUC, i.e. those that offer block-mode 
> editing such as Win-EDT on Windows.
> 
> There’s a tree structure in nearly all music, written or played: parts are 
> performed in parallel, each of them made of voices. The latter usually get 
> grouped into staves for reading and organisation commodity, and repeats, da 
> capos and codas add more structure to that. An organ music score is an 
> example of such a tree.
> 
> All text notations used to represent trees have a difficult problem. MusicXML 
> is not meant to be used by composers or music aficionados, it is an exchange 
> format designed for use by computer applications. The order of the various 
> markups such as  and  is defined by a DTD.
> 
> In the example below, the  contains the sharp , but the 
>  dynamic occurs before it. It could have been placed inside the  
> too, though. Such design choices were not made at random, there are reasons 
> behind them.
> 
>   
> 
>   
> 
>   
> 
>   
>   
> 
>   C
>   1
>   4
> 
> 16
> 1
> half
> sharp
>   
> 
> In this other example, there’s a partgroup containing two parts, one for each 
> flute, with respective parts « 1 » and « 2 » sharing a single staff as is 
> often the case in orchestral scores. 
> 
> 
> 
>   Flutes
>   Fl.
>   
> Fl.
>   
>   
> 2
> 74
>   
> 
> 
> 
>   1
> 2
>   yes
> 
> 
> And the horns sections is a sub-partgroup in this score, with 4 voices 
> grouped into two staves. MusicXML precisely is weird in this area BTW: it 
> does not represent a staff group (tree of groups) as a tree, by allows for « 
> intelaced groups », which is arguable:
> 
> 
> 
> How do you represent such complex structures with Premusic?
> 
> JM
> 
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Re: What can Premusic do that others can't?

[Jacques Menu Muzhic]

Hello Have,

I don’t understand what you mean by square characters: can you make that more 
clear?

There are text editors you can use I guess for the parallel aspect of what 
seems to be a measure-wise notation IIUC, i.e. those that offer block-mode 
editing such as Win-EDT on Windows.

There’s a tree structure in nearly all music, written or played: parts are 
performed in parallel, each of them made of voices. The latter usually get 
grouped into staves for reading and organisation commodity, and repeats, da 
capos and codas add more structure to that. An organ music score is an example 
of such a tree.

All text notations used to represent trees have a difficult problem. MusicXML 
is not meant to be used by composers or music aficionados, it is an exchange 
format designed for use by computer applications. The order of the various 
markups such as  and  is defined by a DTD.

In the example below, the  contains the sharp , but the  dynamic occurs before it. It could have been placed inside the  too, 
though. Such design choices were not made at random, there are reasons behind 
them.

  

  

  

  
  

  C
  1
  4

16
1
half
sharp
  

In this other example, there’s a partgroup containing two parts, one for each 
flute, with respective parts « 1 » and « 2 » sharing a single staff as is often 
the case in orchestral scores. 



  Flutes
  Fl.
  
Fl.
  
  
2
74
  



  1
2
  yes


And the horns sections is a sub-partgroup in this score, with 4 voices grouped 
into two staves. MusicXML precisely is weird in this area BTW: it does not 
represent a staff group (tree of groups) as a tree, by allows for « intelaced 
groups », which is arguable:



How do you represent such complex structures with Premusic?

JM

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Re: [Auto-Reply] Re: Re: What can Premusic do that others can't?

[Jeffery Shivers]

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 7:45 PM, have@anti.capital  wrote:
> Viral Anticapital will get back to you shortly.
>
> If this is a throwaway email account, that's fine if unnecessary - please 
> remember to keep checking it, though!

Seriously?

-- 

Jeffery Shivers
 jefferyshivers.com
 soundcloud.com/jefferyshivers

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Re: What can Premusic do that others can't?

[Werner LEMBERG]

> As an example of what David is mentioning, have a look at the attached
> png image (taken from Chopin's prelude op. 28/24) and try to notate
> this.

Oops, wrong image.  Here's the right one.


Werner
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Re: Re: What can Premusic do that others can't?

[Jeffery Shivers]

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 7:04 PM,  <have@anti.capital> wrote:
> []tm  108
> []dy  ff
>
> Fermatas I want to discuss with others before I make very specific plans. I
> don't see much reason for an entire newline of squares for fermatas, when
> "daa!" could be equivalent to "daaa" with a fermata. That's just one way to
> do it.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> Subject: Re: What can Premusic do that others can't?
> From: "Malte Meyn" <lilyp...@maltemeyn.de>
> Date: 3/20/17 5:14 pm
> To: lilypond-user@gnu.org
>
>
>
> Am 20.03.2017 um 22:48 schrieb have@anti.capital:
>> These are the first measures of Beethoven's Fifth in premusic.
>
> This is missing tempo, fermatas and dynamics.
>
> ___
> lilypond-user mailing list
> lilypond-user@gnu.org
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
>
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> Subject: Re: What can Premusic do that others can't?
> From: "David Kastrup" <d...@gnu.org>
> Date: 3/20/17 5:16 pm
> To: have@anti.capital
> Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org
>
> <have@anti.capital> writes:
>
>> Why don't I ask you to name a notation that does something that
>> Parallel Squares could NOT do? Or, if I reversed the roles, and every
>> tune on http://abcnotation.com were in my notation, and I approached,
>> telling you about the ABC or GUIDO notation I invented, would you see
>> any merit in it, or any real reason to implement ABC or GUIDO... Ever?
>
> Sure. LilyPond was created by the same authors who wrote Mpp, a music
> preprocessor for MusiXTeX which is somewhat similarly compact and
> cryptic as your proposal.
>
> Semilinear notations haven't made the race in math (how great it would
> be if you'd express every mathematical formula in FORTRAN, how easy to
> understand and derive proofs, right?) or in music (Gregorian neumes are
> basically linearly written and preceded the square notation which
> followed it).
>
> How do you expect to notate heptuplets against trioles? Least common
> multiple? Good luck reading your voice as set against that of other
> voices and figuring out the relation to the beat. Have you tried
> setting some polyrhythmic Chopin with your system and actually _playing_
> it?
>
> What is your actual musical background and proficiency?
>
>> But in any case, I am not a programmer, and have never participated in
>> the creation of free software.
>
> Are you a musician? What instrument do you play at what level of
> proficiency?
>
>> Before you dismiss my format, and now that you have a sense for how it
>> works, I implore you to at least try composing in a text editor, any
>> piece of music, simple for now, to feel how natural it is. Think about
>> what this could do - one could comfortably convey all the information
>> conveyed by sheet music, using only notepad.exe.
>
> Reality check: LilyPond source can be written using only notepad.exe and
> conveys all the information written down. So can abc. So can Mpp,
> MusixTeX, MuTeX and others.
>
>> There's nothing like it.
>
> That is not valuable in itself.
>
> --
> David Kastrup
>
> I am having trouble finding examples of MPP code to look at. Could you help
> me out? And what about my code is so cryptic? Can't anyone read a
> "dadadaaa"?

No. Probably for the same reason *anyone* can't just read binary code.

You might be able to sell that to those violin playing robots in Japan though.

>
> I want to look at algebra at a later date. I feel it's fallen victim to the
> same issues as premusic - over-reverence of centuries-old notation - but I
> don't yet have an easy solution. It's more than just linearity - it's about
> designing a file format with a keyboard from the ground up, and not writing
> the information down on paper as has been done for centuries and basing your
> file format off of that.
>
> Yes, least common multiple for your obscure polyrhythms. It would work, and
> unless we start talking about pi-lets, it's the sensible way.
>
> I play guitar and a few instruments very well by most people's standards,
> though I'm sure many of you would outshine me. I compose much music that is
> at least a little complicated, and out of frustration with all existing
> notation softwares prior to my format, I have never scored it. But who cares
> if I only play the tinwhistle? It doesn't make my file format into any less
> of the most sensible plaintext file format for premusic.
>
> So Lilypond and MusixTex can be agonizingly written down by hand. They
> weren't optimized for that purpose, and are desig

Re: What can Premusic do that others can't?

[Malte Meyn]

Am 20.03.2017 um 22:48 schrieb have@anti.capital:
> MusicXML […] but it is an unwise solution here.
As you mentioned several times, you’re not a programmer so probably
others know a little better about how to store music in a way that
programs can easily read.

> ABC […] lacks the perfect and intuitive vertical extensibility of Premusic.
PSP might be relatively easy to describe/define. But not intuitive
(think of D# for D sharp 3, which should be D§ on a german and Dℓ on a
neo keyboard layout).

> Extensibility speaks for itself. […] Every column of squares can be 
> elaborated on by putting more information above it.
So for double sharps/flats:

[]ac   +   -
[]pi  G#G#G3g3g3

Very clever.

> It looks to be compatible with even the most complicated music. It's very 
> easy to read and compose […]
No (see David’s tuplet example), no and no.

> I have invented the perfect plaintext file format for premusic.
“Perfect” is a strong word but I’m sure you perfectly know what you’re
talking about.

> Before you dismiss my format, […] I implore you to at least try composing in 
> a text editor.
I do it all the time: Frescobaldi is the editor of my choice.

So now that I’ve ranted about things that others have thought about more
than me I feel a bit sorry. I’ll try not to do so again.

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RE: Re: What can Premusic do that others can't?

[have]

 []tm  108
[]dy  ff
 
Fermatas I want to discuss with others before I make very specific plans. I 
don't see much reason for an entire newline of squares for fermatas, when 
"daa!" could be equivalent to "daaa" with a fermata. That's just one way to do 
it.
 
- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: What can Premusic do that 
others can't?
From: "Malte Meyn" <lilyp...@maltemeyn.de>
Date: 3/20/17 5:14 pm
To: lilypond-user@gnu.org


 
 Am 20.03.2017 um 22:48 schrieb have@anti.capital:
 > These are the first measures of Beethoven's Fifth in premusic.
 
 This is missing tempo, fermatas and dynamics.
 
 ___
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 lilypond-user@gnu.org
 https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
 
 
 
----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: What can Premusic do that 
others can't?
From: "David Kastrup" <d...@gnu.org>
Date: 3/20/17 5:16 pm
To: have@anti.capital
Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org

<have@anti.capital> writes:

 > Why don't I ask you to name a notation that does something that
 > Parallel Squares could NOT do? Or, if I reversed the roles, and every
 > tune on http://abcnotation.com were in my notation, and I approached,
 > telling you about the ABC or GUIDO notation I invented, would you see
 > any merit in it, or any real reason to implement ABC or GUIDO... Ever?

 Sure. LilyPond was created by the same authors who wrote Mpp, a music
 preprocessor for MusiXTeX which is somewhat similarly compact and
 cryptic as your proposal.

 Semilinear notations haven't made the race in math (how great it would
 be if you'd express every mathematical formula in FORTRAN, how easy to
 understand and derive proofs, right?) or in music (Gregorian neumes are
 basically linearly written and preceded the square notation which
 followed it).

 How do you expect to notate heptuplets against trioles? Least common
 multiple? Good luck reading your voice as set against that of other
 voices and figuring out the relation to the beat. Have you tried
 setting some polyrhythmic Chopin with your system and actually _playing_
 it?

 What is your actual musical background and proficiency?

 > But in any case, I am not a programmer, and have never participated in
 > the creation of free software.

 Are you a musician? What instrument do you play at what level of
 proficiency?

 > Before you dismiss my format, and now that you have a sense for how it
 > works, I implore you to at least try composing in a text editor, any
 > piece of music, simple for now, to feel how natural it is. Think about
 > what this could do - one could comfortably convey all the information
 > conveyed by sheet music, using only notepad.exe.

 Reality check: LilyPond source can be written using only notepad.exe and
 conveys all the information written down. So can abc. So can Mpp,
 MusixTeX, MuTeX and others.

 > There's nothing like it.

 That is not valuable in itself.

 -- 
 David Kastrup
 I am having trouble finding examples of MPP code to look at. Could you help me 
out? And what about my code is so cryptic? Can't anyone read a "dadadaaa"?
 
I want to look at algebra at a later date. I feel it's fallen victim to the 
same issues as premusic - over-reverence of centuries-old notation - but I 
don't yet have an easy solution. It's more than just linearity - it's about 
designing a file format with a keyboard from the ground up, and not writing the 
information down on paper as has been done for centuries and basing your file 
format off of that.
 
Yes, least common multiple for your obscure polyrhythms. It would work, and 
unless we start talking about pi-lets, it's the sensible way.
 
I play guitar and a few instruments very well by most people's standards, 
though I'm sure many of you would outshine me. I compose much music that is at 
least a little complicated, and out of frustration with all existing notation 
softwares prior to my format, I have never scored it. But who cares if I only 
play the tinwhistle? It doesn't make my file format into any less of the most 
sensible plaintext file format for premusic.
 
So Lilypond and MusixTex can be agonizingly written down by hand. They weren't 
optimized for that purpose, and are designed to render in an entirely different 
and intensive layout - mine can be comfortably and quickly composed in AND 
displayed and read in notepad.exe. Again, I implore you to at least try 
composing music in my format.
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Re: What can Premusic do that others can't?

[David Kastrup]

 writes:

> Why don't I ask you to name a notation that does something that
> Parallel Squares could NOT do? Or, if I reversed the roles, and every
> tune on http://abcnotation.com were in my notation, and I approached,
> telling you about the ABC or GUIDO notation I invented, would you see
> any merit in it, or any real reason to implement ABC or GUIDO... Ever?

Sure.  LilyPond was created by the same authors who wrote Mpp, a music
preprocessor for MusiXTeX which is somewhat similarly compact and
cryptic as your proposal.

Semilinear notations haven't made the race in math (how great it would
be if you'd express every mathematical formula in FORTRAN, how easy to
understand and derive proofs, right?) or in music (Gregorian neumes are
basically linearly written and preceded the square notation which
followed it).

How do you expect to notate heptuplets against trioles?  Least common
multiple?  Good luck reading your voice as set against that of other
voices and figuring out the relation to the beat.  Have you tried
setting some polyrhythmic Chopin with your system and actually _playing_
it?

What is your actual musical background and proficiency?

> But in any case, I am not a programmer, and have never participated in
> the creation of free software.

Are you a musician?  What instrument do you play at what level of
proficiency?

> Before you dismiss my format, and now that you have a sense for how it
> works, I implore you to at least try composing in a text editor, any
> piece of music, simple for now, to feel how natural it is. Think about
> what this could do - one could comfortably convey all the information
> conveyed by sheet music, using only notepad.exe.

Reality check: LilyPond source can be written using only notepad.exe and
conveys all the information written down.  So can abc.  So can Mpp,
MusixTeX, MuTeX and others.

> There's nothing like it.

That is not valuable in itself.

-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: What can Premusic do that others can't?

[Malte Meyn]

Am 20.03.2017 um 22:48 schrieb have@anti.capital:
> These are the first measures of Beethoven's Fifth in premusic.

This is missing tempo, fermatas and dynamics.

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