Re: postscript printers for lilypond
k...@aspodata.se writes: > Karl: >> David: > ... >> > I just >> > recently removed a Ghostscriptism (using max/mix operators) that would >> > have made regular PostScript interpreters barf. Maybe that's fixed in >> > master now? > > Yes, I see it. > >> I'll try that, though there where some problems with the guile version >> and some fonts last time I compiled lilypond. > > Ok, compiled new lilypond, only problem vas guile and texi2html > versions and I had to rebuild extractpdfmark also for make doc to work. > > Still, the printer reports error. Sorry for the wasted effort: I think it was worth a try. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: postscript printers for lilypond
Karl: > David: ... > > I just > > recently removed a Ghostscriptism (using max/mix operators) that would > > have made regular PostScript interpreters barf. Maybe that's fixed in > > master now? Yes, I see it. > I'll try that, though there where some problems with the guile version > and some fonts last time I compiled lilypond. Ok, compiled new lilypond, only problem vas guile and texi2html versions and I had to rebuild extractpdfmark also for make doc to work. Still, the printer reports error. Regards, /Karl Hammar --- Aspö Data Lilla Aspö 148 S-742 94 Östhammar Sweden ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: postscript printers for lilypond
Carl Sorensen: ... > I have a Minolta-QMS PagePro 9100 which I like wery much. > It would need a new network card: art.nr 4128-6055-01, > and a "paper take-up roller of the multi-purpose paper tray" (1710502-001 > CRU). Thanks Carl Sorensen and Karlin High for the links, I'll will follow them up. Regards, /Karl Hammar --- Aspö Data Lilla Aspö 148 S-742 94 Östhammar Sweden ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: postscript printers for lilypond
On 1/28/19, 5:48 AM, "k...@aspodata.se" wrote: Karlin: ... > Karl, what make and model was your surge-damaged printer? It will be > easier to recommend another printer if we know what product families > worked well in the past. There's even a slim chance that replacing a > circuit board could get the old one going again. I have a Minolta-QMS PagePro 9100 which I like wery much. It would need a new network card: art.nr 4128-6055-01, and a "paper take-up roller of the multi-purpose paper tray" (1710502-001 CRU). Servicemanual is [1], do anyone know how to get hold of the parts ? https://www.ebay.com/p/Konica-Minolta-Page-Pro-9100-Complete-OEM-NIC-Network-Card-Assembly/21027525598?iid=292897085532=ps https://www.getthatpart.com/konica-minolta-page-pro-9100-complete-oem-nic-network-card-assembly.html https://www.bonanza.com/listings/Konica-Minolta-Page-Pro-9100-Complete-Oem-NIC-Network-Card-Assembly/671432200?goog_pla=1=173784728461=_pla=1=1o3_type=pla=Cj0KCQiA7briBRD7ARIsABhX8aCA_Jm6wKINYWe87f9t4gmBU7EyN5CVLwnhjQHc1MsrPjqg5YSPtQUaAo7WEALw_wcB http://www.neutronusa.com/prod.cfm/195088/glb?gclid=Cj0KCQiA7briBRD7ARIsABhX8aBw99bvzdBs5uXSA1pNHbAxvi_I_ZLPtkGEMzmZCiuZOH5-rfR0t4MaAkToEALw_wcB http://www.nextwarehouse.com/item/?36840_g10e=Cj0KCQiA7briBRD7ARIsABhX8aB5evI7fLn9g1Kt-rNdtEKW7eyxvxpOf6Qbt7pD-AU9K75Od2O4XPAaAmxgEALw_wcB https://www.beslist.nl/computers/d056395/Konica_Minolta_Pick_Up_Roller_15sh_F_Pagepro_9100_%28_1710502-001_%29.html Seems a bit hard to find (not a lot of sources), but they do seem to be available. Carl ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: postscript printers for lilypond
On 1/28/2019 6:48 AM, k...@aspodata.se wrote: I have a Minolta-QMS PagePro 9100 which I like wery much. It would need a new network card: art.nr 4128-6055-01, and a "paper take-up roller of the multi-purpose paper tray" (1710502-001 CRU). Servicemanual is [1], do anyone know how to get hold of the parts ? I have a computer repair shop. In my experience, it will be very hard to beat eBay for repair parts like this. Sometimes we have tried to buy parts from manufacturers, and even they told us to use eBay. Once a product is discontinued, they would usually far rather sell a new one than help fix an old one, and can't be bothered to keep in stock every part for every model ever made. But if the new machines have moved away from some near-Platonic-Ideal condition the old one had, repair might still be the way to go. Several suggestions for parts sent privately. -- Karlin High Missouri, USA ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: postscript printers for lilypond
Andrew Bernard: > That was in response to David's point about inkjet images not being > waterproof or durable under handling, that's all. I thought you may be > preparing pages for pre-press work perhaps, in which case the paper is > handled with great care, or even being careful not to touch. Though > nowadays most prepress then goes straight to press without intermediary. Ok, in that case any glossyness wouldn't be of any concern. I'd say that the inkjets (for sheet music) isn't suitable for prepress. They have simply put to low resulotion. I'd be happy with the Kyocera for prepress. Regards, /Karl Hammar --- Aspö Data Lilla Aspö 148 S-742 94 Östhammar Sweden ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: postscript printers for lilypond
Hi Karl, That was in response to David's point about inkjet images not being waterproof or durable under handling, that's all. I thought you may be preparing pages for pre-press work perhaps, in which case the paper is handled with great care, or even being careful not to touch. Though nowadays most prepress then goes straight to press without intermediary. Andrew On Tue, 29 Jan 2019 at 00:04, wrote: > Andrew Bernard: > > Are the prints for repro. or for handling? > > Aren't all prints "handled" ? > > ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: postscript printers for lilypond
Andrew Bernard: > Are the prints for repro. or for handling? Aren't all prints "handled" ? And I do want high quality printouts, regardless if they are for my own choir or for sale or for whatever reason. Would a photographer be satisfied with printouts from a run of the mill colour laser ? Why should I expose singers and players with subpar sheet music, aren't we artists of producing beautiful sheet music. There is no reason to degrade your results by using, in the end, a bad printer. Regards, /Karl Hammar --- Aspö Data Lilla Aspö 148 S-742 94 Östhammar Sweden ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: postscript printers for lilypond
Karlin: ... > Karl, what make and model was your surge-damaged printer? It will be > easier to recommend another printer if we know what product families > worked well in the past. There's even a slim chance that replacing a > circuit board could get the old one going again. I have a Minolta-QMS PagePro 9100 which I like wery much. It would need a new network card: art.nr 4128-6055-01, and a "paper take-up roller of the multi-purpose paper tray" (1710502-001 CRU). Servicemanual is [1], do anyone know how to get hold of the parts ? Hälsningar, /Karl Hammar [1] https://archive.org/download/printermanual-konica-minolta-qms-pagepro-9100-service-manual/konicaminoltaqmspagepro9100servicemanual.pdf Regards, /Karl Hammar --- Aspö Data Lilla Aspö 148 S-742 94 Östhammar Sweden ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: postscript printers for lilypond
Andrew: > Spaeking as a former IT Consultant, the first thing one generally needs to > know before being able to help a client is your projected budget. Otherwise > it's hard to know if you want a Heidelberg press or a desktop inkjet. Let > us know. I'd be fine for a printer in the 1000-2000 EUR price class. My last printer was the Kyocera and it cost 2500-3000EUR. > I am unable to understand why you need to print PostScript direct. Can you > elaborate? The entire professional graphic arts and print industry uses > PDF. Adobe InDesign that I use for books has a variety of varying quality > PDF outputs, up to very high quality print. It's not usual to output > PostScript any more (in fact, I cant even find it in the menus). > Furthermore PDF is PostScript internally. not some different printer > language like the old HP printers used etc. > > Can you elaborate more so we can understand what it is exactly that you are > doing? ... I think that have been discussed elsewhere before. Let's say I like postscript, I do some programming in it from time to time, I like the results I get with it, and I'm kind of tired of converting what I have just because the printer is too stupid to understand it. If possible I require all printers I buy to have postscript, the exception is large format inkjets. Regards, /Karl Hammar --- Aspö Data Lilla Aspö 148 S-742 94 Östhammar Sweden ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: postscript printers for lilypond
David Kastrup: > Uh, the resolution is where it aims, not where it hits and the ink > spreads out. And of course the result is a lot less resistant against > eventual smearing than toner (which is basically molten plastic). As I wrote before, the HP pagewide and the Epson WF-C8190DTW do give my perfect matte blacks, but they have problems with the resolution, the black edges are not straight. The blacks don't cover the whole black area, there are small white dots all over where the the ink didn't get. The Epson is a litte better. Regards, /Karl Hammar --- Aspö Data Lilla Aspö 148 S-742 94 Östhammar Sweden ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: postscript printers for lilypond
Andrew: > The Epson P800 has nine tanks (oneupmanship!) including a _matte black_ ink > tank, and an eight channel printhead. Resolution is up to 2880 x 1400 dpi, > so I can't see how there could be a problem printing sharp lines. > > Not double sided, but unless the OP tells us more about his budget, one > could always print the other side manually like we plebeians do. > > Not an advertisement, purely for reference: > > https://epson.com/For-Work/Printers/Large-Format/Epson-SureColor-P800-Printer/p/SCP800SE > > The above is based on my belief that the requirement for a PostScript only > printer is a furphy. I am willing to be enlightened! Yes, I have their SC-P800 A2 printer, and I'm still having trouble to get it work, tried with gutenprint so far but only gets a cryptic error code 0x1A36. The handling is really really subpar compared to my usual postscript printers. If you have any advice to get it working I'd be glad. My only intent with it is posters, photos, covers, and large sheets of music for organ works and such where you don't have a hand handy to turn the page. Regards, /Karl Hammar --- Aspö Data Lilla Aspö 148 S-742 94 Östhammar Sweden ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: postscript printers for lilypond
Andrew: > Can I ask why you don't use matte paper? I try to, is there some you works good for lasers and that you can recommend? Regards, /Karl Hammar --- Aspö Data Lilla Aspö 148 S-742 94 Östhammar Sweden ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: postscript printers for lilypond
David: > k...@aspodata.se writes: > > > I'm looking for a new printer since the old one was fried by the > > lighting (i.e. the thunder thing, not light in the room). > > That doesn't help at all regarding your question, but the thunder thing > is called "lightning" unlike the light in the room. Sigh, why do the english spell thoose two so like each other. > > It seems that colour lasers are all glossy and some b/w one too. > > Inkjet, e.g. HP pagewide and WF-C8190DTW are superbly matte but their > > blacks don't cover the area (there are small white dots all over) and > > the edges are irregular, not sharp. The Kyocera TASKalfa is superbly > > sharp but the blacks gives glare in the wrong light (as it always are) > > and it don't handle lilyponds postscript. > > "it don't handle lilyponds postscript" according to which test? Sending it to the printer gave me a surplus of waste paper - so I kind of turned off error reports in the printer after that. > I just > recently removed a Ghostscriptism (using max/mix operators) that would > have made regular PostScript interpreters barf. Maybe that's fixed in > master now? I'll try that, though there where some problems with the guile version and some fonts last time I compiled lilypond. Regards, /Karl Hammar --- Aspö Data Lilla Aspö 148 S-742 94 Östhammar Sweden ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: postscript printers for lilypond
Karlin: ... > A printer requirement for A3 size, 240 gsm (sizes like Tabloid, > Ledger, 11x17 and ~90 lb basis weight) AND duplex-print is going to > narrow the field rather sharply. Many models can't duplex heavier > weights of paper. Add the matte-finish, sharpness, and PostScript > compatibility requirements, and I predict there will not be an > overwhelming number of choices. No, the number of choises seem to be in the wincinity of zero, at least for new printers. Regards, /Karl Hammar --- Aspö Data Lilla Aspö 148 S-742 94 Östhammar Sweden ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: postscript printers for lilypond
Carl Sorensen: > I am fortunate to work at a university that regularly puts > high-volume office copiers on surplus. It’s relatively easy > to find a high-quality, high-volume printer with postscript that > handles A3 duplexing for less than $500. Is the printer new? > No. But it’s rated for tens of thousands of copies per month, > and I am not likely to use tens of thousands of copies during the > several years I have the printer. > > It’s larger than most desktop printers, but the paper handling, > finishing, and other capacities are exceptional. I tend to look > for Sharp multifunction copiers; we have a fair number of them so > they are generally available. But I do need to make sure that the > postscript option is installed – having a service tech install > postscript costs more than the printer. I'm totally happy with old/older printers as long as service parts are available. Regards, /Karl Hammar --- Aspö Data Lilla Aspö 148 S-742 94 Östhammar Sweden ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: postscript printers for lilypond
Let's hear more from the OP. Are the prints for repro. or for handling? Andrew On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 at 21:45, David Kastrup wrote: > > Uh, the resolution is where it aims, not where it hits and the ink > spreads out. And of course the result is a lot less resistant against > eventual smearing than toner (which is basically molten plastic). > > Of course, a side track regarding the PostScript issue. > > ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: postscript printers for lilypond
Andrew Bernard writes: > Hi Folks, > > The Epson P800 has nine tanks (oneupmanship!) including a _matte black_ ink > tank, and an eight channel printhead. Resolution is up to 2880 x 1400 dpi, > so I can't see how there could be a problem printing sharp lines. Uh, the resolution is where it aims, not where it hits and the ink spreads out. And of course the result is a lot less resistant against eventual smearing than toner (which is basically molten plastic). Of course, a side track regarding the PostScript issue. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: postscript printers for lilypond
I am fortunate to work at a university that regularly puts high-volume office copiers on surplus. It’s relatively easy to find a high-quality, high-volume printer with postscript that handles A3 duplexing for less than $500. Is the printer new? No. But it’s rated for tens of thousands of copies per month, and I am not likely to use tens of thousands of copies during the several years I have the printer. It’s larger than most desktop printers, but the paper handling, finishing, and other capacities are exceptional. I tend to look for Sharp multifunction copiers; we have a fair number of them so they are generally available. But I do need to make sure that the postscript option is installed – having a service tech install postscript costs more than the printer. Carl ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: postscript printers for lilypond
On Mon 28 Jan 2019 at 12:35:31 (+1100), Andrew Bernard wrote: > The Epson P800 has nine tanks (oneupmanship!) including a _matte black_ ink > tank, and an eight channel printhead. Resolution is up to 2880 x 1400 dpi, > so I can't see how there could be a problem printing sharp lines. > > Not double sided, but unless the OP tells us more about his budget, one > could always print the other side manually like we plebeians do. > > Not an advertisement, purely for reference: > > https://epson.com/For-Work/Printers/Large-Format/Epson-SureColor-P800-Printer/p/SCP800SE > > The above is based on my belief that the requirement for a PostScript only > printer is a furphy. I am willing to be enlightened! AIUI for run-of-the-mill printing like most of us do, a PS capability is a waste of money. Besides, most of the music I have typeset has been printed in greater numbers on other people's printers: nowadays it would be unusual to distribute in any other format. But for specialist printing on an in-house printer of the highest quality, you really do need PS. Remember how, years ago, photocopies were not quite the same size or aspect ratio as the original, or were slightly skewed? Well, most modern printers have similar infelicities, and serious printers can compensate for this. It's essential if you really care about dimensional stability, which of course most of us don't. As for colour, that's way outside my ken. I couldn't afford to replenish the ink on the printer above, let alone purchase it. I can barely afford it on my own. So price probably isn't the main criterion here. But it would be interesting to hear about the OP's reasons and use case. Cheers, David. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: postscript printers for lilypond
Hi Folks, The Epson P800 has nine tanks (oneupmanship!) including a _matte black_ ink tank, and an eight channel printhead. Resolution is up to 2880 x 1400 dpi, so I can't see how there could be a problem printing sharp lines. Not double sided, but unless the OP tells us more about his budget, one could always print the other side manually like we plebeians do. Not an advertisement, purely for reference: https://epson.com/For-Work/Printers/Large-Format/Epson-SureColor-P800-Printer/p/SCP800SE The above is based on my belief that the requirement for a PostScript only printer is a furphy. I am willing to be enlightened! Andrew ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: postscript printers for lilypond
On Sun, Jan 27, 2019 at 6:03 PM Andrew Bernard wrote: > Epson make photo printers for high end photographic use that have specialised > sets of black inks to give very great greyscale capabilities. And I have a Canon PRO-100 that has eight different ink cartridges. Including Black, Gray, and Light Gray. I wonder, though... photo printing and sharp text have different priorities. What inkjet printer is going to give razor-sharp staff lines, etc without using special paper? -- Karlin High Missouri, USA ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: postscript printers for lilypond
Hi Karl, Spaeking as a former IT Consultant, the first thing one generally needs to know before being able to help a client is your projected budget. Otherwise it's hard to know if you want a Heidelberg press or a desktop inkjet. Let us know. I am unable to understand why you need to print PostScript direct. Can you elaborate? The entire professional graphic arts and print industry uses PDF. Adobe InDesign that I use for books has a variety of varying quality PDF outputs, up to very high quality print. It's not usual to output PostScript any more (in fact, I cant even find it in the menus). Furthermore PDF is PostScript internally. not some different printer language like the old HP printers used etc. Can you elaborate more so we can understand what it is exactly that you are doing? As a quick comment. Epson make photo printers for high end photographic use that have specialised sets of black inks to give very great greyscale capabilities. You may want to look into these. Many artists still concentrate on black and white printing as a fine art, and are pretty fussy about blacks! Andrew ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: postscript printers for lilypond
Johan Vromans writes: > On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 12:32:05 -0600, Karlin High > wrote: > >> and PostScript compatibility requirements > > I'm still wondering why this is a hard requirement. AFAIK, drivers > like ghostscript produce excellent prints on all sorts of printers. Printer producers pay Adobe less money for a PostScript implementation than a user will pay for the original PostScript fonts alone. That's one conceivable reason. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: postscript printers for lilypond
On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 12:32:05 -0600, Karlin High wrote: > and PostScript compatibility requirements I'm still wondering why this is a hard requirement. AFAIK, drivers like ghostscript produce excellent prints on all sorts of printers. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: postscript printers for lilypond
On Sun, Jan 27, 2019 at 5:16 AM Andrew Bernard wrote: > Can I ask why you don't use matte paper? In my experience, paper types make a much bigger difference for inkjet printers than for lasers. Ink going INTO the paper versus toner going ON the paper. As Karl notes, some laser printers will produce a glossy finish even on plain paper. That's actually a selling point for many people. I had hardly ever considered that it would be undesirable for some use cases, but here we have one. A printer requirement for A3 size, 240 gsm (sizes like Tabloid, Ledger, 11x17 and ~90 lb basis weight) AND duplex-print is going to narrow the field rather sharply. Many models can't duplex heavier weights of paper. Add the matte-finish, sharpness, and PostScript compatibility requirements, and I predict there will not be an overwhelming number of choices. -- Karlin High Missouri, USA ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: postscript printers for lilypond
On Sun, Jan 27, 2019 at 6:01 AM David Kastrup wrote: > I just recently removed a Ghostscriptism (using max/mix operators) that would > have made regular PostScript interpreters barf. Maybe that's fixed in > master now? >From past posts, I think Karl's workflow involves further editing to the PostScript that LilyPond produces. So LilyPond's output won't be the "last word" for printing as it would be for most other users. Karl, what make and model was your surge-damaged printer? It will be easier to recommend another printer if we know what product families worked well in the past. There's even a slim chance that replacing a circuit board could get the old one going again. -- Karlin High Missouri, USA ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: postscript printers for lilypond
k...@aspodata.se writes: > I'm looking for a new printer since the old one was fried by the > lighting (i.e. the thunder thing, not light in the room). That doesn't help at all regarding your question, but the thunder thing is called "lightning" unlike the light in the room. > It seems that colour lasers are all glossy and some b/w one too. > Inkjet, e.g. HP pagewide and WF-C8190DTW are superbly matte but their > blacks don't cover the area (there are small white dots all over) and > the edges are irregular, not sharp. The Kyocera TASKalfa is superbly > sharp but the blacks gives glare in the wrong light (as it always are) > and it don't handle lilyponds postscript. "it don't handle lilyponds postscript" according to which test? I just recently removed a Ghostscriptism (using max/mix operators) that would have made regular PostScript interpreters barf. Maybe that's fixed in master now? -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: postscript printers for lilypond
Hi Karl, Can I ask why you don't use matte paper? Andrew ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
