Re: Solfege Syllables Easy Notes
Yes, takadimi (kind of esperanto made of konnakal, kodaly and others. http://www.takadimi.net/documents/Takadimi%20short%20guide%20for%20Web.pdf Op 9 okt. 2022, om 17:57 heeft Craig Bakalian mailto:craigbakal...@gmail.com>> het volgende geschreven: If you really want to muse, muse about rhythm syllables. Kodaly rhythm syllables are iffy. Gordon syllables have syntax and account for unusual meters.
Re: Solfege Syllables Easy Notes
Craig Bakalian writes: > If you really want to muse, muse about rhythm syllables. Kodaly > rhythm syllables are iffy. Gordon syllables have syntax and account > for unusual meters. I remember getting yelled at during a meeting of > music teachers when I gave a demonstration of Gordon rhythm > syllables. That's how fucked up music education is in the USA. Oh, > the musings. > > It is weird though, historically, that there was a system in place for > understanding tonality but not rhythm. > > Gosh, I am a nerd. Frankly, if you bring across topic matter there as you do here on the list, I have some doubt whether it is the actual subject matter or rather the representation that begets you frowns at music teacher gatherings. Telling everybody upfront that you consider them incompetent and stupid in comparison to you is not likely to be the best setter for a receptive frame of mind. -- David Kastrup
Re: Solfege Syllables Easy Notes
Hi Craig, > If you really want to muse, muse about rhythm syllables. Kodaly rhythm > syllables are iffy. Gordon syllables have syntax and account for unusual > meters. I remember getting yelled at during a meeting of music teachers when > I gave a demonstration of Gordon rhythm syllables. That's how fucked up > music education is in the USA. Oh, the musings. Konnakol FTW? =) > It is weird though, historically, that there was a system in place for > understanding tonality but not rhythm. Western thought, in all disciplines, has… gaps. > Gosh, I am a nerd. I see your nerd, and raise you the fact that I'm literally in the middle of engraving a song called “Nerds & Geeks & Dorks & Dweebs” — for my musical, “The Quest”, which centres around a D role-playing game — in which the [critical!] differences between the four categories of social outcastness are explained in 8-part harmony. LOL Kieren.
Re: Solfege Syllables Easy Notes
If you really want to muse, muse about rhythm syllables. Kodaly rhythm syllables are iffy. Gordon syllables have syntax and account for unusual meters. I remember getting yelled at during a meeting of music teachers when I gave a demonstration of Gordon rhythm syllables. That's how fucked up music education is in the USA. Oh, the musings. It is weird though, historically, that there was a system in place for understanding tonality but not rhythm. Gosh, I am a nerd. On 10/8/22 1:05 PM, David Kastrup wrote: Lukas-Fabian Moser writes: The problem is that there's really a large number of different "solfege" methods, some being considered as "natural" in a couple of countries or by a certain school of theoreticians, and in fact I have to deal with the issue of finding a common ground for students from many different backgrounds quite often, being a theory teacher at a major European music university with a very international student base. For example, I know Musing about the historical correctness of absolute vs relative solfege is kind of an exercise in futility considering it had been invented in a frame of tonalities very much foregoing black keys.
Re: Solfege Syllables Easy Notes
Lukas-Fabian Moser writes: > The problem is that there's really a large number of different > "solfege" methods, some being considered as "natural" in a couple of > countries or by a certain school of theoreticians, and in fact I have > to deal with the issue of finding a common ground for students from > many different backgrounds quite often, being a theory teacher at a > major European music university with a very international student > base. For example, I know Musing about the historical correctness of absolute vs relative solfege is kind of an exercise in futility considering it had been invented in a frame of tonalities very much foregoing black keys. -- David Kastrup
Re: Solfege Syllables Easy Notes
Hi Lukas-Fabian, Yeah, right Phrygian, lol. Sorry, I was high when I wrote that. And, it's all good. I will simply indicate \key d \major for \key e \dorian. It all works. Nothing to fix. And, again, thanks for the code! Craig Bakalian On 10/8/22 10:44 AM, Lukas-Fabian Moser wrote: Hi Craig, Am 08.10.22 um 14:44 schrieb Craig Bakalian: Thank you for the solution. You are a generous person! You're welcome. Actually, this is something that I've wanted to do for quite some time now (and it's a comparatively simple task, once you have got accustomed to Scheme, Contexts and Engravers in LilyPond). All is great with the code, with one exception; dorian is re as the resting tone, do does not become the resting tone in d dorian. So, the tonic in dorian is re,fa,la. The tonic in mixolydian is mi,so,ti. And, I am not apologizing here, I am a pretty well respected music teacher in the US, European and Asian fixed do is ignorant. Just an aside comment, your code is not creating fixed do. Solfege is for students to learn the syntax of music; tonic - dominant - subdominant relationships, with a movable resting tone within each key or keyality. So, you can have an e based dorian coupled into d major. I think Arnold Schoenberg was pretty strong on this issue. Yes, I know. (But I suspect you meant to say the mixolydian tonic is so,ti,re, while mi,so,ti is Phrygian?) The problem is that there's really a large number of different "solfege" methods, some being considered as "natural" in a couple of countries or by a certain school of theoreticians, and in fact I have to deal with the issue of finding a common ground for students from many different backgrounds quite often, being a theory teacher at a major European music university with a very international student base. For example, I know - do as tonic in major, la in minor (and sometimes re in Dorian etc. in contexts where these modes are important) - lowering notes by "ti->ta", "mi->ma", "la->lo" - lowering notes by "ti->te", "mi->me", "la->le" - lowering notes by "ti->tu", "mi->mu", "la->lu" - do as tonic in every mode (so Dorian becomes, for instance, do-re-mu-fa-so-la-tu-do) - minor using do-re-mi-fa-so-la-ti (yes indeed! I have an older German aural training textbook that does this) and so on, and that's not even talking about the completely different (fixed do) system used, for instance, in France, Italy, Spain, Russia, Romania, China, other movable tonic systems (ja le mi ni ro su wa ja), strange beasts like the one developed by Eitz, and so on. I long ago stopped considering one of these to be the "correct" one. Of course it's true that "movable do" systems lead to a quite different way of thinking about pitch and tonality than "fixed do" systems do, and actually I think I have good reasons to emphasise "movable tonic" systems in my teaching - so we agree here. (And to give another example complicating things further: Jazz musicians often seem to be using a movable do system that is not rooted in the current tonality, but in the current chord; and in doing so, they set "do = root of the current chord". This seems to be helpful for improvising in a certain Chord-related mode in chord scale theory. And in the cases I have seen, they use "-e" for lowering steps chromatically. - If I'm not mistaken, that's the style taught at Berklee College, for instance.) To the point, and it is resolvable by making everything \key "anykey" \major, but, how would we change the code to make \dorian re based, \lydian fa based? I think the proper approach to doing this would be to introduce a new context property: We already have "tonic", but we should also have a "solfeggio-do" giving the pitch of the current do. A possible syntax would be: \key e \dorian \setDo d (and we could also modify \key to do the \setDo step automatically). The problem is that internally, \dorian and \lydian are nothing but a bunch of "alterations": #(display dorian) returns ((0 . 0) (1 . 0) (2 . -1/2) (3 . 0) (4 . 0) (5 . 0) (6 . -1/2)) which just means "third and seventh steps are lowered with respect to the major scale". From this, it's not completely trivial to automatically find the "do" in the system you prefer, so probably the proper route would be to enrich the information encapsuled in the "dorian" variable. This would actually be a change that might be incorporated into LilyPond proper. I'm happy to play around with this if you - as I would understand perfectly well - are not convinced of simply writing "\key d \major" instead of "\key e \dorian" in order to get the syllables the way you want them to be. Lukas
Re: Solfege Syllables Easy Notes
Hi Craig, Am 08.10.22 um 14:44 schrieb Craig Bakalian: Thank you for the solution. You are a generous person! You're welcome. Actually, this is something that I've wanted to do for quite some time now (and it's a comparatively simple task, once you have got accustomed to Scheme, Contexts and Engravers in LilyPond). All is great with the code, with one exception; dorian is re as the resting tone, do does not become the resting tone in d dorian. So, the tonic in dorian is re,fa,la. The tonic in mixolydian is mi,so,ti. And, I am not apologizing here, I am a pretty well respected music teacher in the US, European and Asian fixed do is ignorant. Just an aside comment, your code is not creating fixed do. Solfege is for students to learn the syntax of music; tonic - dominant - subdominant relationships, with a movable resting tone within each key or keyality. So, you can have an e based dorian coupled into d major. I think Arnold Schoenberg was pretty strong on this issue. Yes, I know. (But I suspect you meant to say the mixolydian tonic is so,ti,re, while mi,so,ti is Phrygian?) The problem is that there's really a large number of different "solfege" methods, some being considered as "natural" in a couple of countries or by a certain school of theoreticians, and in fact I have to deal with the issue of finding a common ground for students from many different backgrounds quite often, being a theory teacher at a major European music university with a very international student base. For example, I know - do as tonic in major, la in minor (and sometimes re in Dorian etc. in contexts where these modes are important) - lowering notes by "ti->ta", "mi->ma", "la->lo" - lowering notes by "ti->te", "mi->me", "la->le" - lowering notes by "ti->tu", "mi->mu", "la->lu" - do as tonic in every mode (so Dorian becomes, for instance, do-re-mu-fa-so-la-tu-do) - minor using do-re-mi-fa-so-la-ti (yes indeed! I have an older German aural training textbook that does this) and so on, and that's not even talking about the completely different (fixed do) system used, for instance, in France, Italy, Spain, Russia, Romania, China, other movable tonic systems (ja le mi ni ro su wa ja), strange beasts like the one developed by Eitz, and so on. I long ago stopped considering one of these to be the "correct" one. Of course it's true that "movable do" systems lead to a quite different way of thinking about pitch and tonality than "fixed do" systems do, and actually I think I have good reasons to emphasise "movable tonic" systems in my teaching - so we agree here. (And to give another example complicating things further: Jazz musicians often seem to be using a movable do system that is not rooted in the current tonality, but in the current chord; and in doing so, they set "do = root of the current chord". This seems to be helpful for improvising in a certain Chord-related mode in chord scale theory. And in the cases I have seen, they use "-e" for lowering steps chromatically. - If I'm not mistaken, that's the style taught at Berklee College, for instance.) To the point, and it is resolvable by making everything \key "anykey" \major, but, how would we change the code to make \dorian re based, \lydian fa based? I think the proper approach to doing this would be to introduce a new context property: We already have "tonic", but we should also have a "solfeggio-do" giving the pitch of the current do. A possible syntax would be: \key e \dorian \setDo d (and we could also modify \key to do the \setDo step automatically). The problem is that internally, \dorian and \lydian are nothing but a bunch of "alterations": #(display dorian) returns ((0 . 0) (1 . 0) (2 . -1/2) (3 . 0) (4 . 0) (5 . 0) (6 . -1/2)) which just means "third and seventh steps are lowered with respect to the major scale". From this, it's not completely trivial to automatically find the "do" in the system you prefer, so probably the proper route would be to enrich the information encapsuled in the "dorian" variable. This would actually be a change that might be incorporated into LilyPond proper. I'm happy to play around with this if you - as I would understand perfectly well - are not convinced of simply writing "\key d \major" instead of "\key e \dorian" in order to get the syllables the way you want them to be. Lukas
Re: Solfege Syllables Easy Notes
Craig Bakalian writes: > And, I am not apologizing here, I am a pretty well respected music > teacher in the US, European and Asian fixed do is ignorant. Just an > aside comment, your code is not creating fixed do. Where would we Europeans be without having been taught solmisation by Guido from Arizona? -- David Kastrup
Re: Solfege Syllables Easy Notes
Hi Lukas-Fabian,
Thank you for the solution. You are a generous person!
I used to code, about 25 years ago, lol. The scheme code below, or
whatever lilypond uses to extend functionality is confusing to me. But,
I can generalize it. All is great with the code, with one exception;
dorian is re as the resting tone, do does not become the resting tone in
d dorian. So, the tonic in dorian is re,fa,la. The tonic in mixolydian
is mi,so,ti. And, I am not apologizing here, I am a pretty well
respected music teacher in the US, European and Asian fixed do is
ignorant. Just an aside comment, your code is not creating fixed do.
Solfege is for students to learn the syntax of music; tonic - dominant -
subdominant relationships, with a movable resting tone within each key
or keyality. So, you can have an e based dorian coupled into d major.
I think Arnold Schoenberg was pretty strong on this issue.
To the point, and it is resolvable by making everything \key "anykey"
\major, but, how would we change the code to make \dorian re based,
\lydian fa based?
And the modulations to fis and bes is excellent!
Thanks again!
On 10/8/22 4:01 AM, Lukas-Fabian Moser wrote:
#(define solfeggio-list (list "do" "re" "mi" "fa" "so" "la" "ti"))
#(define sharp-vowel #\i)
#(define flat-vowel #\e)
Solfeggio_engraver =
#(lambda (context)
(make-engraver
(acknowledgers
((note-head-interface engraver grob source-engraver)
(let* (
(tonic-pitch (ly:context-property context 'tonic))
(tonic-name (ly:pitch-notename tonic-pitch))
(grob-pitch
(ly:event-property (event-cause grob) 'pitch))
(delta (ly:pitch-diff grob-pitch tonic-pitch))
(syllable
; use string-copy because of later in-place modification
(string-copy
(list-ref solfeggio-list (ly:pitch-notename delta)
(case (ly:pitch-alteration delta)
((0) (noop))
((1/2) (string-set! syllable 1 sharp-vowel))
((-1/2) (string-set! syllable 1 flat-vowel))
(else (string-set! syllable 1 #\?)))
(ly:grob-set-property! grob 'note-names (make-vector 7
syllable)))
#(set-global-staff-size 26)
\layout {
ragged-right = ##t
\context {
\Voice
\consists \Solfeggio_engraver
}
}
\relative c' {
\easyHeadsOn
c4 d e f
g4 a b c
c b bes a
fis g as g
\break
\key a \major
a,4 b cis d
e4 fis gis a \break
\key d \dorian
d,4 e f g
a4 b c d
}
Re: Solfege Syllables Easy Notes
Hi,
Am 08.10.22 um 02:36 schrieb Valentin Petzel:
note that easy notes heads will make use of the note heads note-names property
if set. This allows us to make an arbitrary NoteHead use arbitrary names.
So to achieve what you intend to do you could simply rewrite the key music
function to also override this property on a Staff level (key affects the whole
staff) as you can see in the appended file.
A different option would be to write an engraver that acknowledges NoteHeads,
derives the tonic from the context and sets the note-names property.
... which probably is the "cleaner" solution, as it does not require
re-defining standard functions.
One can take the example engraver given in
https://lilypond.org/doc/v2.23/Documentation/notation/note-heads#easy-notation-note-heads
as a basis:
\version "2.23.6"
#(define solfeggio-list (list "do" "re" "mi" "fa" "so" "la" "ti"))
#(define sharp-vowel #\i)
#(define flat-vowel #\e)
Solfeggio_engraver =
#(lambda (context)
(make-engraver
(acknowledgers
((note-head-interface engraver grob source-engraver)
(let* (
(tonic-pitch (ly:context-property context 'tonic))
(tonic-name (ly:pitch-notename tonic-pitch))
(grob-pitch
(ly:event-property (event-cause grob) 'pitch))
(delta (ly:pitch-diff grob-pitch tonic-pitch))
(syllable
; use string-copy because of later in-place modification
(string-copy
(list-ref solfeggio-list (ly:pitch-notename delta)
(case (ly:pitch-alteration delta)
((0) (noop))
((1/2) (string-set! syllable 1 sharp-vowel))
((-1/2) (string-set! syllable 1 flat-vowel))
(else (string-set! syllable 1 #\?)))
(ly:grob-set-property! grob 'note-names (make-vector 7 syllable)))
#(set-global-staff-size 26)
\layout {
ragged-right = ##t
\context {
\Voice
\consists \Solfeggio_engraver
}
}
\relative c' {
\easyHeadsOn
c4 d e f
g4 a b c
c b bes a
fis g as g
\break
\key a \major
a,4 b cis d
e4 fis gis a \break
\key d \dorian
d,4 e f g
a4 b c d
}
This uses "do" for the tonic (and -i for raised and -e for flat notes),
regardless of the mode (major/minor etc.)
For la-based minor, one would need to take a different approach:
Currently LilyPond (to my knowledge) only saves the tonic in the context
(and a list of alterations). I have been thinking for a while that \key
should store more explicit information in the context.
Lukas
Re: Solfege Syllables Easy Notes
Hello Craig,
note that easy notes heads will make use of the note heads note-names property
if set. This allows us to make an arbitrary NoteHead use arbitrary names.
So to achieve what you intend to do you could simply rewrite the key music
function to also override this property on a Staff level (key affects the whole
staff) as you can see in the appended file.
A different option would be to write an engraver that acknowledges NoteHeads,
derives the tonic from the context and sets the note-names property.
Cheers,
Valentin
Am Samstag, 8. Oktober 2022, 01:27:53 CEST schrieb Craig Bakalian:
> Hi Karlin,
>
> No, that's the issue. It would be a \markup of do, re, mi, fa, so, la,
> and ti in each note head according to whatever key is declared. So, in
> D major, where ever there is a d, d', or d, the syllable do would be in
> the note head, where ever there is an a, a''', or a,,, it would be so,
> ect...
>
> I guess the code would need to know what \key was declared.
>
> But, nothing to observe out there that I know of. I am being creative,
> imaginative, or inventive.
>
> Craig Bakalian
>
> On 10/7/22 3:42 PM, Karlin High wrote:
> > On 10/7/2022 2:35 PM, Craig Bakalian wrote:
> >> Is there a way to get solfege syllables into the easy note system?
> >
> > Probably, although I expect you will have to further define the result
> > you want. Is there an example of such a product anywhere the community
> > could observe, either online or posted attachment?
#(define solfeggio-list (list "do" "re" "mi" "fa" "so" "la" "ti"))
% adapted from ly/music-functions-init.ly
key =
#(define-music-function (tonic pitch-alist)
((ly:pitch? '()) (number-pair-list? '()))
(_i "Set key to @var{tonic} and scale @var{pitch-alist}.
If both are null, just generate @code{KeyChangeEvent}.")
#{
\override Staff.NoteHead.note-names = #(list->vector (append (list-tail solfeggio-list (- 7 (ly:pitch-notename tonic)))
(list-head solfeggio-list (- 7 (ly:pitch-notename tonic)
#(cond ((null? tonic) (make-music 'KeyChangeEvent))
((null? pitch-alist)
(ly:parser-error (G_ "second argument must be pitch list")
(*location*))
(make-music 'SequentialMusic 'void #t))
(else
(ly:music-transpose
(make-music 'KeyChangeEvent
'tonic (ly:make-pitch 0 0 0)
'pitch-alist pitch-alist)
tonic)))
#})
\layout {
\override Staff.NoteHead.note-names = #(list->vector solfeggio-list)
}
{
\time 8/4
\easyHeadsOn
c' d' e' f' g' a' b' c''
\key d\major
cis' d' e' fis' g' a' b' cis''
\key e\major
cis' dis' e' fis' gis' a' b' cis''
}
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Re: Solfege Syllables Easy Notes
Hi Karlin, No, that's the issue. It would be a \markup of do, re, mi, fa, so, la, and ti in each note head according to whatever key is declared. So, in D major, where ever there is a d, d', or d, the syllable do would be in the note head, where ever there is an a, a''', or a,,, it would be so, ect... I guess the code would need to know what \key was declared. But, nothing to observe out there that I know of. I am being creative, imaginative, or inventive. Craig Bakalian On 10/7/22 3:42 PM, Karlin High wrote: On 10/7/2022 2:35 PM, Craig Bakalian wrote: Is there a way to get solfege syllables into the easy note system? Probably, although I expect you will have to further define the result you want. Is there an example of such a product anywhere the community could observe, either online or posted attachment?
Re: Solfege Syllables Easy Notes
On 10/7/2022 2:35 PM, Craig Bakalian wrote: Is there a way to get solfege syllables into the easy note system? Probably, although I expect you will have to further define the result you want. Is there an example of such a product anywhere the community could observe, either online or posted attachment? -- Karlin High Missouri, USA
Solfege Syllables Easy Notes
Hi All, Is there a way to get solfege syllables into the easy note system? Thanks Craig Bakalian
