Re: Teaching

[Knute Snortum]

There's also the site The Mutopia Project
(https://www.mutopiaproject.org/) with a lot of examples of LilyPond
engraving, although a lot of the code is old.

--
Knute Snortum

On Thu, May 13, 2021 at 11:32 AM Guy Stalnaker  wrote:
>
> Calvin - following up on my earlier email - I'm happy to make the LP code 
> available (it's not on CPDL, just the PDF/MID files) if you think it might be 
> of us. Some of it is older code, when I was learning LP, and though I've 
> developed my personal SOP for using LP, I've not gone back to older code to 
> align it when how I use LP now. A long way of saying that some of the code is 
> less elegant and not how I'd write it today after ten years using LP.
>
> Regards.
> --
>
> “Happiness is the meaning and the purpose of life, the whole aim and end of 
> human existence.”
>
> ― Aristotle
>
>
> On Wed, May 12, 2021 at 5:29 PM Calvin Ransom  wrote:
>>
>> Hi everyone,
>> I am a grade 11 student at my high school attempting to teach the junior 
>> band at my school the basics of LilyPond. Each student has a chorale book 
>> and they are each choosing a short chorale from it to engrave. I would like 
>> to show them examples of the immense capabilities LilyPond has. If you have 
>> any examples please email me.
>>
>> Calvin Ransom,
>> Student at Stelly’s Secondary
>> Sent from my iPhone.

Re: Teaching

[Guy Stalnaker]

Calvin - following up on my earlier email - I'm happy to make the LP code
available (it's not on CPDL, just the PDF/MID files) if you think it might
be of us. Some of it is older code, when I was learning LP, and though I've
developed my personal SOP for using LP, I've not gone back to older code to
align it when how I use LP now. A long way of saying that some of the code
is less elegant and not how I'd write it today after ten years using LP.

Regards.
--

“Happiness is the meaning and the purpose of life, the whole aim and end of
human existence.”

― Aristotle


On Wed, May 12, 2021 at 5:29 PM Calvin Ransom 
wrote:

> Hi everyone,
> I am a grade 11 student at my high school attempting to teach the junior
> band at my school the basics of LilyPond. Each student has a chorale book
> and they are each choosing a short chorale from it to engrave. I would like
> to show them examples of the immense capabilities LilyPond has. If you have
> any examples please email me.
>
> Calvin Ransom,
> Student at Stelly’s Secondary
> Sent from my iPhone.
>

Re: Teaching

[Jacques Menu]

Hello Calvin,

The accordion score that DK just posted is an excellent example of what Lily 
can do!

JM

Re: Teaching

[Karlin High]

On 5/12/2021 5:28 PM, Calvin Ransom wrote:

I would like to show them examples of the immense capabilities LilyPond has.


Would any of your class be interested in video scores made with 
LilyPond? I know of 2 different methods for this.


ly2video, by Adam Spiers



MKVIDEO, by Knut Petersen







Here is a video score project I did for "As The Hart," an English 
translation of Palestrina's "Sicut Cervus." There are videos for the 
full score as well as ones for practicing each vocal part.



--
Karlin High
Missouri, USA

Teaching

[Calvin Ransom]

Hi everyone,
I am a grade 11 student at my high school attempting to teach the junior band 
at my school the basics of LilyPond. Each student has a chorale book and they 
are each choosing a short chorale from it to engrave. I would like to show them 
examples of the immense capabilities LilyPond has. If you have any examples 
please email me. 

Calvin Ransom,
Student at Stelly’s Secondary
Sent from my iPhone.

Color parenthesized accidentals with \accidentalStyle teaching

[Paul Morris]

Just in case anyone is wondering, `AccidentalCautionary` is the GROB to 
override to color the parenthesized accidentals you get with 
`\accidentalStyle teaching`.


-Paul


%%%

\version "2.21.0"
\new Staff {
  \key g \major
  \accidentalStyle teaching
  \override AccidentalCautionary.color = #red
  { fis' f' }
}

%%%



___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Unwanted naturals on teaching accidentals style

[francisperea]

Hi Jacques,

Thanks a lot! Worked like a charm!

Totally as I wanted. You save me the day.

Thanks again.



--
View this message in context: 
http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/Unwanted-naturals-on-teaching-accidentals-style-tp184888p184900.html
Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Unwanted naturals on teaching accidentals style

[Jacques Menu]

Hello Francis,

No such problem with 2.19.33. You can switch safely to that version in my 
opinion.

JM

> Le 20 déc. 2015 à 00:41, francisperea <fran...@francisperea.org> a écrit :
> 
> Hi all, I'm just new to Lilypond and impressed with its capabilities.
> 
> One of my first tries with it was a set of scales for my own learning
> changing key every two bars. I wanted to show the accidentals of the key, so
> I used  \accidentalStyle teaching
> 
> The problem is that in the first bar of every key change it only shows the
> key accidentals as I wanted, but in the second bar of every key change a lot
> of unwanted naturals are shown. 
> 
> Any idea of how to get rid of them?
> 
> Thanks a lot in advance.
> 
> PS Here is the code I'm using, in case someone wants to test it.
> 
> \version "2.18.2"
> \language "espanol"
> 
> \header{
>  title = "Ejercicios de escalas mayores"
>  tagline = ""
> }
> 
> \relative {
> \accidentalStyle teaching
> \override AccidentalCautionary.parenthesized = ##f
> 
> \set Staff.printKeyCancellation = ##f
> \override Staff.KeyCancellation.break-visibility = #all-invisible   
> \set Staff.extraNatural = ##f
> 
>  \tempo 4 = 60
> 
> \key sib \major
>  sib8^"Sib" do re mib fa sol la sib
>  la sol fa mib re do sib4
> 
>  \key si \major
>  si8^"Si" dos res mi fas sols las si
>  las sols fas mi res dos si4
> 
>  \key do \major
>  do8^"Do" re mi fa sol la si do
>  si la sol fa mi re do4
> }
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/Unwanted-naturals-on-teaching-accidentals-style-tp184888.html
> Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> 
> ___
> lilypond-user mailing list
> lilypond-user@gnu.org
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user


___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Unwanted naturals on teaching accidentals style

[Jacques Menu]

Hi Francis,

Iour velkom!

JM

> Le 20 déc. 2015 à 12:26, francisperea <fran...@francisperea.org> a écrit :
> 
> Hi Jacques,
> 
> Thanks a lot! Worked like a charm!
> 
> Totally as I wanted. You save me the day.
> 
> Thanks again.
> 
> 
> 
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/Unwanted-naturals-on-teaching-accidentals-style-tp184888p184900.html
> Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> 
> ___
> lilypond-user mailing list
> lilypond-user@gnu.org
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user


___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Unwanted naturals on teaching accidentals style

[francisperea]

Hi all, I'm just new to Lilypond and impressed with its capabilities.

One of my first tries with it was a set of scales for my own learning
changing key every two bars. I wanted to show the accidentals of the key, so
I used  \accidentalStyle teaching

The problem is that in the first bar of every key change it only shows the
key accidentals as I wanted, but in the second bar of every key change a lot
of unwanted naturals are shown. 

Any idea of how to get rid of them?

Thanks a lot in advance.

PS Here is the code I'm using, in case someone wants to test it.

\version "2.18.2"
\language "espanol"

\header{
  title = "Ejercicios de escalas mayores"
  tagline = ""
}

\relative {
 \accidentalStyle teaching
 \override AccidentalCautionary.parenthesized = ##f
 
 \set Staff.printKeyCancellation = ##f
 \override Staff.KeyCancellation.break-visibility = #all-invisible   
 \set Staff.extraNatural = ##f
 
  \tempo 4 = 60
  
 \key sib \major
  sib8^"Sib" do re mib fa sol la sib
  la sol fa mib re do sib4

  \key si \major
  si8^"Si" dos res mi fas sols las si
  las sols fas mi res dos si4
  
  \key do \major
  do8^"Do" re mi fa sol la si do
  si la sol fa mi re do4
}




--
View this message in context: 
http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/Unwanted-naturals-on-teaching-accidentals-style-tp184888.html
Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: manuals page [WAS Re: teaching a university module on

[SoundsFromSound]

Urs Liska wrote
> Am 28.04.2015 um 13:00 schrieb Peter Gentry:
>> That benlemon link is a real lemon - does the purported site actually 
>> exist?
> 
> That's strange - I had actually looked at that page before pasting the 
> URL into the email post.
> 
> Urs
> 
>> regards
>> Peter Gentry**
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> lilypond-user mailing list
>> 

> lilypond-user@

>> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
> 
> 
> ___
> lilypond-user mailing list

> lilypond-user@

> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user


Hi all,

Sorry about this hosting issue, it's been fixed. I was attempting to also
change WordPress themes and that backfired so I tabled that idea for now.
Also, I've had a few roadblocks in my life and work which delayed my new
Lilypond series. But they will be uploaded, for sure. I'm really proud of
them and eager to offer them up to the community. Hope all is well with
everyone,

Ben





-
composer | sound designer 
LilyPond Tutorials (for beginners) --> http://bit.ly/bcl-lilypond
--
View this message in context: 
http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/manuals-page-WAS-Re-teaching-a-university-module-on-tp175558p181997.html
Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

lilypond teaching material

[BB]

Obviously the Lilypond users are overaged?

Is there a kind of "curriculum", eventually with Open Office overhead 
slides ready to use for an introductory training on an adult education 
center (in Germany Volkshochschule (VHS)) available.  May be some 
skilled users ma offer such an itroduction to raise lilyponds 
popularity? Usually there are offered weekend workshops or courses 
regular an evening per week for people in work. Eventually it might be 
used in music education on schools?


Regards

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: lilypond teaching material

[Urs Liska]

Am 16.09.2015 um 11:49 schrieb BB:
> I just read
> http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/learning/entering-input.html
> (again). I find that is a good basis for such an introduction, but I
> think it needs some beef up to become more entertaining than lecturing.
> But I actually do not have an idea how to manage that? In my opinion
> there are much more instructive examples and exercises for reinforcement
> learning needed.
> 
> 

Well, recently I started an initiative for a "book" on LilyPond etc.,
which is located at http://book.openlilylib.org.
It came to a stop because I switched to a new server, but now that I've
(nearly) managed to do that I'll get back to this and will soon ask for
contribution.

One thing I want to have in that collection of resources is an
introduction to the toolchain that is explicitly written from the
perspective of users who are accustomed to Finale and the like.
Something like: "Your are used to have one GUI for entering scores, then
export image files or whatever that you then include in
Word/InDesign/... documents. With LilyPond you will have ... and need
..., and this will work together like ..."

Urs

> 
> On 16.09.2015 11:24, Urs Liska wrote:
>>
>> Am 16.09.2015 um 11:14 schrieb BB:
>>> Obviously the Lilypond users are overaged?
>> I very much hope that our recent "inofficial survey" is biased for
>> whatever reasons. But I admit this impression is very strong.
>>
>>> Is there a kind of "curriculum", eventually with Open Office overhead
>>> slides ready to use for an introductory training on an adult education
>>> center (in Germany Volkshochschule (VHS)) available.
>> Not that I know of, but it's a good idea, and I've had the wish to start
>> compiling such material for quite a long time. Unfortunately that
>> probably won't happen without a concrete opportunity.
>>
>>> May be some
>>> skilled users ma offer such an itroduction to raise lilyponds
>>> popularity? Usually there are offered weekend workshops or courses
>>> regular an evening per week for people in work. Eventually it might be
>>> used in music education on schools?
>> Good idea.
>> I know that in some universities there are people offering LilyPond
>> courses, with mixed result/acceptance. But it definitely should be much
>> more, and I think people should get hooked to text based tools as early
>> as possible, before they are too much tied to their shiny clickediclick
>> tools.
>>
>> Urs
>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> ___
>>> lilypond-user mailing list
>>> lilypond-user@gnu.org
>>> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
>> ___
>> lilypond-user mailing list
>> lilypond-user@gnu.org
>> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
> 
> 
> ___
> lilypond-user mailing list
> lilypond-user@gnu.org
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: lilypond teaching material

[Urs Liska]

Am 16.09.2015 um 11:14 schrieb BB:
> Obviously the Lilypond users are overaged?

I very much hope that our recent "inofficial survey" is biased for
whatever reasons. But I admit this impression is very strong.

> 
> Is there a kind of "curriculum", eventually with Open Office overhead
> slides ready to use for an introductory training on an adult education
> center (in Germany Volkshochschule (VHS)) available.  

Not that I know of, but it's a good idea, and I've had the wish to start
compiling such material for quite a long time. Unfortunately that
probably won't happen without a concrete opportunity.

> May be some
> skilled users ma offer such an itroduction to raise lilyponds
> popularity? Usually there are offered weekend workshops or courses
> regular an evening per week for people in work. Eventually it might be
> used in music education on schools?

Good idea.
I know that in some universities there are people offering LilyPond
courses, with mixed result/acceptance. But it definitely should be much
more, and I think people should get hooked to text based tools as early
as possible, before they are too much tied to their shiny clickediclick
tools.

Urs

> 
> Regards
> 
> ___
> lilypond-user mailing list
> lilypond-user@gnu.org
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: lilypond teaching material

[BB]

I just read
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/learning/entering-input.html
(again). I find that is a good basis for such an introduction, but I 
think it needs some beef up to become more entertaining than lecturing. 
But I actually do not have an idea how to manage that? In my opinion 
there are much more instructive examples and exercises for reinforcement 
learning needed.




On 16.09.2015 11:24, Urs Liska wrote:


Am 16.09.2015 um 11:14 schrieb BB:

Obviously the Lilypond users are overaged?

I very much hope that our recent "inofficial survey" is biased for
whatever reasons. But I admit this impression is very strong.


Is there a kind of "curriculum", eventually with Open Office overhead
slides ready to use for an introductory training on an adult education
center (in Germany Volkshochschule (VHS)) available.

Not that I know of, but it's a good idea, and I've had the wish to start
compiling such material for quite a long time. Unfortunately that
probably won't happen without a concrete opportunity.


May be some
skilled users ma offer such an itroduction to raise lilyponds
popularity? Usually there are offered weekend workshops or courses
regular an evening per week for people in work. Eventually it might be
used in music education on schools?

Good idea.
I know that in some universities there are people offering LilyPond
courses, with mixed result/acceptance. But it definitely should be much
more, and I think people should get hooked to text based tools as early
as possible, before they are too much tied to their shiny clickediclick
tools.

Urs


Regards

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user



___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: lilypond teaching material

[Mats Bengtsson]

Gilles  harfang.homelinux.org> writes:

> 
> On Wed, 16 Sep 2015 13:04:24 +0200, David Kastrup wrote:
> > Gilles  harfang.homelinux.org> writes:
> >
> >> Hello.
> >>
> >> On Wed, 16 Sep 2015 11:49:04 +0200, BB wrote:
> >>> I just read
> >>>
> >>> 
> >>> http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/learning/entering-input.html
> >>> (again). I find that is a good basis for such an introduction,

How about the video tutorials linked from there, see
http://benlemon.me/blog/music/lilypond/operation-lilypond

   /Mats


___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: lilypond teaching material

[Gilles]

Hello.

On Wed, 16 Sep 2015 11:49:04 +0200, BB wrote:

I just read

http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/learning/entering-input.html
(again). I find that is a good basis for such an introduction,


IIRC, someone (among the most prominent current or past developers)
once stated that this first example being compilable by lilypond had
been a big mistake.

Perhaps it was meant to show people that text input is not scary.
But its simplicity is deceitful: no actual score is that simple; even
a monophonic instrument part should not be encoded that way.


but I
think it needs some beef up to become more entertaining than
lecturing. But I actually do not have an idea how to manage that? In
my opinion there are much more instructive examples and exercises for
reinforcement learning needed.


The strategy will probably depend on the target audience and purpose.

IMHO, the starting point should be a real score whose input contains
all the bits that most people would use in the majority of their
projects: score (and MIDI) blocks, header, systems, full score and
instrument parts.

A composer/publisher will not be scared that a work needs to have
some kind of organization/layout.

Some people will be afraid (i.e. won't be interested) by text input
whatever advantage list you will throw at them.
Those should be taught how to use a [FLOSS GUI] that depends on
LilyPond for its rendering.


Best regards,
Gilles


On 16.09.2015 11:24, Urs Liska wrote:


Am 16.09.2015 um 11:14 schrieb BB:

Obviously the Lilypond users are overaged?

I very much hope that our recent "inofficial survey" is biased for
whatever reasons. But I admit this impression is very strong.

Is there a kind of "curriculum", eventually with Open Office 
overhead
slides ready to use for an introductory training on an adult 
education

center (in Germany Volkshochschule (VHS)) available.
Not that I know of, but it's a good idea, and I've had the wish to 
start

compiling such material for quite a long time. Unfortunately that
probably won't happen without a concrete opportunity.


May be some
skilled users ma offer such an itroduction to raise lilyponds
popularity? Usually there are offered weekend workshops or courses
regular an evening per week for people in work. Eventually it might 
be

used in music education on schools?

Good idea.
I know that in some universities there are people offering LilyPond
courses, with mixed result/acceptance. But it definitely should be 
much
more, and I think people should get hooked to text based tools as 
early
as possible, before they are too much tied to their shiny 
clickediclick

tools.

Urs


Regards




___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: lilypond teaching material

[Gilles]

On Wed, 16 Sep 2015 13:04:24 +0200, David Kastrup wrote:

Gilles  writes:


Hello.

On Wed, 16 Sep 2015 11:49:04 +0200, BB wrote:

I just read


http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/learning/entering-input.html
(again). I find that is a good basis for such an introduction,


IIRC, someone (among the most prominent current or past developers)
once stated that this first example being compilable by lilypond had
been a big mistake.


Well, I think it should specify a note duration for the first note.
Other than that, I find nothing wrong with it.


Perhaps it was meant to show people that text input is not scary.
But its simplicity is deceitful: no actual score is that simple; 
even

a monophonic instrument part should not be encoded that way.


Hacking down some melody tends to be rather similar to that.  Many 
tunes
in abc format look pretty much like that and transfer reasonably well 
to

LilyPond input of that complexity.


Would someone switch to lilypond just for this kind of work?

I did not to argue in that direction (lesser complex scores), but even 
so:

where is the title of the tune? ;-)

Gilles


___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: lilypond teaching material

[David Kastrup]

Gilles  writes:

> Hello.
>
> On Wed, 16 Sep 2015 11:49:04 +0200, BB wrote:
>> I just read
>>
>> http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/learning/entering-input.html
>> (again). I find that is a good basis for such an introduction,
>
> IIRC, someone (among the most prominent current or past developers)
> once stated that this first example being compilable by lilypond had
> been a big mistake.

Well, I think it should specify a note duration for the first note.
Other than that, I find nothing wrong with it.

> Perhaps it was meant to show people that text input is not scary.
> But its simplicity is deceitful: no actual score is that simple; even
> a monophonic instrument part should not be encoded that way.

Hacking down some melody tends to be rather similar to that.  Many tunes
in abc format look pretty much like that and transfer reasonably well to
LilyPond input of that complexity.

-- 
David Kastrup

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: lilypond teaching material

[Michael Rivers]

Yes, that was my first thought too. Those video tutorials are quite nice.



--
View this message in context: 
http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/lilypond-teaching-material-tp181185p181226.html
Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: lilypond teaching material

[Karen S. Billings]

I definitely agree - the videos are extremely helpful!

Karen

> On Sep 16, 2015, at 10:24 AM, Michael Rivers <michaeljriv...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Yes, that was my first thought too. Those video tutorials are quite nice.
> 
> 
> 
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/lilypond-teaching-material-tp181185p181226.html
> Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> 
> ___
> lilypond-user mailing list
> lilypond-user@gnu.org
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: lilypond teaching material

[Andrew Bernard]

Hi Gilles,

It’s in the line of what is called a ‘Hello World’ program in computing. It’s 
the bare minimum that compiles and runs and outputs something absolutely 
minimal, and establishes that all your machinery is up and running and that you 
can go on from there. In this respect, it’s a perfectly good example, and 
useful for people starting. You have to start somewhere, and presenting a 
complete lilypond score skeleton with all its complexities can come later.


Andrew





On 16/09/2015, 20:57, "Gilles" 
 wrote:

>Hello.
>
>On Wed, 16 Sep 2015 11:49:04 +0200, BB wrote:
>> I just read
>> 
>> http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/learning/entering-input.html
>> (again). I find that is a good basis for such an introduction,
>
>IIRC, someone (among the most prominent current or past developers)
>once stated that this first example being compilable by lilypond had
>been a big mistake.
>
>Perhaps it was meant to show people that text input is not scary.
>But its simplicity is deceitful: no actual score is that simple; even
>a monophonic instrument part should not be encoded that way.
>
>>


___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: manuals page [WAS Re: teaching a university module on engraving with lilypond]

[Federico Bruni]

Added
https://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=4382


2015-04-27 20:44 GMT+02:00 Carl Sorensen c_soren...@byu.edu:

 On 4/27/15 10:47 AM, Federico Bruni fedel...@gmail.com wrote:

 2015-04-27 17:25 GMT+02:00 Kevin Barry barr...@gmail.com:
 
 - I'd rather use a conversational approach instead of unordered lists:
 Please be aware that LilyPond is a text-based(link) music engraver and
 read the FAQ(link) before You can see LilyPond in action in the
 following video tutorials made by Ben Lemon... (a small iframe of youtube
 video would be great). Then explain that the first manual to be read
 should be Learning and Usage, followed by Notation.

 I think that such an approach could be helpful.

 But Notation shouldn't be read.  It should only be referenced.  And I
 think we should make that clear whenever we talk about it.

 Thanks,

 Carl


___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

manuals page [WAS Re: teaching a university module on

[Peter Gentry]

That benlemon link is a real lemon - does the purported site actually exist?
 

regards 
Peter Gentry 

 
___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: manuals page [WAS Re: teaching a university module on

[Federico Bruni]

2015-04-28 13:00 GMT+02:00 Peter Gentry peter.gen...@sunscales.co.uk:

 That benlemon link is a real lemon - does the purported site actually
 exist?


domain is renewed:

Domain Name:BENLEMON.ME
Domain Create Date:06-Apr-2013 21:39:21 UTC
Domain Last Updated Date:07-Apr-2015 02:42:27 UTC
Domain Expiration Date:06-Apr-2016 21:39:21 UTC

Perhaps some problems with the hosting service?

Anyway, we'd rather link to youtube? (or this would be not allowed by GNU
policy?)
https://www.youtube.com/user/SoundsFromSound/playlists
___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: manuals page [WAS Re: teaching a university module on

[Urs Liska]

Am 28.04.2015 um 13:00 schrieb Peter Gentry:
That benlemon link is a real lemon - does the purported site actually 
exist?


That's strange - I had actually looked at that page before pasting the 
URL into the email post.


Urs


regards
Peter Gentry**



___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user


___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

RE: manuals page [WAS Re: teaching a university module on

[Peter Gentry]

 
Ah yes I have seen Benjamins videos before. I think they are an excellent 
introduction to Lilypond with Frescobaldi and have been
eagerly waiting for the promised advanced ones.


  _  

From: Federico Bruni [mailto:fedel...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2015 12:07 PM
To: Peter Gentry; Benjamin CL
Cc: lilypond-user Mailinglist
Subject: Re: manuals page [WAS Re: teaching a university module on


2015-04-28 13:00 GMT+02:00 Peter Gentry peter.gen...@sunscales.co.uk:


That benlemon link is a real lemon - does the purported site actually exist?


domain is renewed:

Domain Name:BENLEMON.ME
Domain Create Date:06-Apr-2013 21:39:21 UTC
Domain Last Updated Date:07-Apr-2015 02:42:27 UTC
Domain Expiration Date:06-Apr-2016 21:39:21 UTC


Perhaps some problems with the hosting service?


Anyway, we'd rather link to youtube? (or this would be not allowed by GNU 
policy?)
https://www.youtube.com/user/SoundsFromSound/playlists




___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: teaching a university module on engraving with lilypond

[Paul Morris]

Dear Kevin,

 On Apr 27, 2015, at 10:18 AM, Kevin Barry barr...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 The scope of the course will be to teach some of the finer points of 
 engraving (Gould is the module reference text) and then get them to produce 
 their own editions of out-of-copyright scores which we will then try to 
 upload to mutopia (and perhaps imslp, but I haven't looked into that).


This sounds fantastic, congrats!  If you are looking for scores to work on you 
might start here:

https://github.com/MutopiaProject/MutopiaProject/issues/355

These are scores that are popular on IMSLP (in terms of downloads) but aren’t 
(yet) available on mutopia.  And there may be more where those came from if you 
inquire on the mutopia mailing list.

All the best,
-Paul___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

teaching a university module on engraving with lilypond

[Kevin Barry]

Dear All,

Three recent threads (are we the future, mutopia, and new users' feelings
about the docs) have prompted me to start a new one rather than write
separate replies to each. Apologies in advance for the length, but I would
be very grateful for some replies.

I am very happy to say that a module I offered at the university where I
teach, on preparing scores with lilypond, has been taken up by the students
(whether the course runs or not is their choice so I consider it a
democratic victory!), and will run for twelve weeks this forthcoming
October-December. I will have about ten sophister B.A. students (music
students at the end of their degrees).

The scope of the course will be to teach some of the finer points of
engraving (Gould is the module reference text) and then get them to produce
their own editions of out-of-copyright scores which we will then try to
upload to mutopia (and perhaps imslp, but I haven't looked into that).

So a few things:

1. I'm viewing this as an opportunity to `turn' a few of our students (who
mostly seem to use pirated copies of Sibelius). I haven't researched the
module yet but I hope that I will have some exemplary scores to show off
LilyPond when the time comes around. The only commercially available one
that I am aware of is Urs and Janek's Fried songbook. (By the way, I read
in another thread that they sold framed A3 pages from it - are they still
doing that? I would love one) If anyone can point me in the direction of
more LilyPond-engraved material that would be great.

2. There seems to be a consensus among a small group here that LilyPond's
default output isn't really publishing standard. I've never engraved a full
score with it (I do examples and diagrams for my own work or the work of
other academics), so I've never really bumped up against this issue. Can
anyone list the things that they routinely improve? I know Kieran and some
others proposed creating some stylesheets to help in this area (and
somewhere I have a very nice engraving of the first page of Beethoven's Op.
10 sonatas) - was there any progress with that?

3. Since I will, in effect, be creating a tutorial for new LilyPond users,
perhaps I could encourage some collaboration here, and make the results
freely available. MuseScore has an excellent series of tutorial videos, for
example. I'm not necessarily saying that format would be best for LilyPond,
but I do think there is room in the ecosystem for a tutorial in addition to
the (excellent) learning manual, which I paid a considerable price in terms
of time for not reading more thoroughly the first time around...

Thanks for reading,
Kevin
___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: teaching a university module on engraving with lilypond

[Carl Sorensen]

On 4/27/15 7:18 AM, Kevin Barry barr...@gmail.com wrote:


3. Since I will, in effect, be creating a tutorial for new LilyPond
users, perhaps I could encourage some collaboration here, and make the
results freely available. MuseScore has an excellent series of tutorial
videos, for example. I'm not necessarily saying that format would be best
for LilyPond, but I do think there is room in the ecosystem for a
tutorial in addition to the (excellent) learning manual, which I paid a
considerable price in terms of time for not reading more thoroughly the
first time around...


Given the fact that you paid a price for not reading the Learning Manual
more thoroughly, would it not make sense to use the Learning Manual as
your text for the module?  If there are problems with the Learning Manual,
let's fix them.  If there are optional tutorials that you want to have
as part of your module that can be worked on independently after working
through the core part of the Learning Manual, I think we could add them.

Thanks,

Carl


___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: teaching a university module on engraving with lilypond

[Urs Liska]

Hi Kevin,

Am 27.04.2015 um 16:18 schrieb Kevin Barry:

Dear All,

Three recent threads (are we the future, mutopia, and new users' 
feelings about the docs) have prompted me to start a new one rather 
than write separate replies to each. Apologies in advance for the 
length, but I would be very grateful for some replies.


I am very happy to say that a module I offered at the university where 
I teach, on preparing scores with lilypond, has been taken up by the 
students (whether the course runs or not is their choice so I consider 
it a democratic victory!), and will run for twelve weeks this 
forthcoming October-December. I will have about ten sophister B.A. 
students (music students at the end of their degrees).




Congratulations!

The scope of the course will be to teach some of the finer points of 
engraving (Gould is the module reference text) and then get them to 
produce their own editions of out-of-copyright scores which we will 
then try to upload to mutopia (and perhaps imslp, but I haven't looked 
into that).


So a few things:

1. I'm viewing this as an opportunity to `turn' a few of our students 
(who mostly seem to use pirated copies of Sibelius). I haven't 
researched the module yet but I hope that I will have some exemplary 
scores to show off LilyPond when the time comes around. The only 
commercially available one that I am aware of is Urs and Janek's Fried 
songbook. (By the way, I read in another thread that they sold framed 
A3 pages from it - are they still doing that? I would love one) If 
anyone can point me in the direction of more LilyPond-engraved 
material that would be great.


What I know from the community is
https://edition-kainhofer.com/de/ and
http://www.xn--schne-noten-tfb.de/

The framed A3 pages were an item in our (failed) crowdfunding initiative 
to make the edition free. As nobody took that one we didn't actually 
produce one, so nothing is in stock. However, one could always think 
about that.




2. There seems to be a consensus among a small group here that 
LilyPond's default output isn't really publishing standard.


Definitely not. But I don't think *any* notation program does that. IMO 
LilyPond's default output is much closer to publishing standard than 
Finale's or Sibelius' (I don't know about Amadeus or SCORE).


But there are two different things to this topic: The overall layout and 
appearance and the detail engraving issues.
The latter is the question of how many items you have to touch and fix 
to get the details to your publication standards, the former the issue 
of global settings.


I've never engraved a full score with it (I do examples and diagrams 
for my own work or the work of other academics), so I've never really 
bumped up against this issue. Can anyone list the things that they 
routinely improve? I know Kieran and some others proposed creating 
some stylesheets to help in this area (and somewhere I have a very 
nice engraving of the first page of Beethoven's Op. 10 sonatas) - was 
there any progress with that?


Partially.
There is at least the place ready for it in openLilyLib, and some 
thought has been given about a possible interface and code design - but 
not too much. This is blocked by my work on font selection. I've 
written about my progress on a font selection interface in this post: 
http://lilypondblog.org/2015/03/managing-alternative-fonts-with-lilypond/
But while continuing my work on that track I realized that some if not 
most of the work should go into LilyPond itself. So currently I'm 
preparing a patch that will significantly simplify and enhance the 
possibilities to switch text and music fonts in LilyPond. Only when 
that's ready and through I will continue with the stylesheets library 
(not only because of the time but of course because that relies on the 
font interface).


I think when the time is ready I'll ask for some discussion here.



3. Since I will, in effect, be creating a tutorial for new LilyPond 
users, perhaps I could encourage some collaboration here, and make the 
results freely available. MuseScore has an excellent series of 
tutorial videos, for example.


You know http://benlemon.me/blog/music/lilypond/operation-lilypond
?

I'm not necessarily saying that format would be best for LilyPond, but 
I do think there is room in the ecosystem for a tutorial in addition 
to the (excellent) learning manual, which I paid a considerable price 
in terms of time for not reading more thoroughly the first time around...


Definitely. If someone takes responsibility for this it would be great.

Urs



Thanks for reading,
Kevin


___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user


___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: teaching a university module on engraving with lilypond

[Kevin Barry]

On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 4:07 PM, Carl Sorensen c_soren...@byu.edu wrote:

 Given the fact that you paid a price for not reading the Learning Manual
 more thoroughly, would it not make sense to use the Learning Manual as
 your text for the module?  If there are problems with the Learning Manual,
 let's fix them.  If there are optional tutorials that you want to have
 as part of your module that can be worked on independently after working
 through the core part of the Learning Manual, I think we could add them.


The learning manual will be a core part of the module of course, but I
don't expect it to take much time to get through (I will have 22 hours of
contact during the module). In general I would like to focus on practical
work first, and explain the theory later.

You know http://benlemon.me/blog/music/lilypond/operation-lilypond
 ?


No I didn't know about this, and thank you for linking it. I will take a
good look.

Kevin
___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

manuals page [WAS Re: teaching a university module on engraving with lilypond]

[Federico Bruni]

2015-04-27 17:25 GMT+02:00 Kevin Barry barr...@gmail.com:


 You know http://benlemon.me/blog/music/lilypond/operation-lilypond
 ?


 No I didn't know about this, and thank you for linking it. I will take a
 good look.


This is listed here under Other material:
http://www.lilypond.org/website/manuals.html

Kevin probably missed it because he doesn't check that page often. But
anyway it's not that easy to spot.
I took a few seconds to look at that page with critical eyes and found that
it could be improved a lot. As is, it's a kind of strict list which doesn't
really guide a new user through the manuals.

I wonder if Urs already started some work in this area, but I know he has
more compelling tasks at the moment.

Some thoughts:

- remove Regular use vs Infrequent use sections
- move FAQ and Video tutorials in the Introduction section, which could be
renamed to First steps or New users or Introduction for new users
- I'd rather use a conversational approach instead of unordered lists:
Please be aware that LilyPond is a text-based(link) music engraver and
read the FAQ(link) before You can see LilyPond in action in the
following video tutorials made by Ben Lemon... (a small iframe of youtube
video would be great). Then explain that the first manual to be read should
be Learning and Usage, followed by Notation.
- All other manuals are for regular or advanced users.
- I would put a list of all the manuals at the end (or on the right column)
and the Manual formats section could be an introduction to this list.

So a possible layout could be a 2 column page: on the left two sections
(New users, Advanced users) and on the right the manual list.
___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: manuals page [WAS Re: teaching a university module on engraving with lilypond]

[Carl Sorensen]

On 4/27/15 10:47 AM, Federico Bruni fedel...@gmail.com wrote:

2015-04-27 17:25 GMT+02:00 Kevin Barry barr...@gmail.com:

- I'd rather use a conversational approach instead of unordered lists:
Please be aware that LilyPond is a text-based(link) music engraver and
read the FAQ(link) before You can see LilyPond in action in the
following video tutorials made by Ben Lemon... (a small iframe of youtube
video would be great). Then explain that the first manual to be read
should be Learning and Usage, followed by Notation.

I think that such an approach could be helpful.

But Notation shouldn't be read.  It should only be referenced.  And I
think we should make that clear whenever we talk about it.

Thanks,

Carl


___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Extra naturals in accidental-style teaching?

[Ariel Barton]

Thank you!

I think that what I want is not the forget style, but to have Lilypond
typeset everything in C major/A minor. I'd still sort of like to print
the true key signature; do you know if there's a way to print the D major
keysignature while it's in C? (\key d \major \key c \major produces an
error message unless I put something between the two key changes, \key d
\major s1 \key c \major makes my measure count off and also prints a
bunch of courtesy accidentals at the key change to C major; there
might be something I can do involving the sharp=postitions setting for
the key-signature-interface but I can't really figure out how Lilypond
wants me to phrase that.)

Thanks,
Ariel

Paul Morris wrote

 Hi Ariel,  It seems that these cautionary natural signs appear any time a
 given note occurs again, if it is not immediately following the same
note.

 \version 2.18.2
 \new Staff {
   \accidentalStyle teaching
   \key c \major
   \relative f' {
   c8 d c d e e f e f e e d c c d e
   }
 }

 This may be a bug. The docs say cautionary accidentals are added for all
 sharp or flat tones specified by the key signature, except if the note is
 immediately repeated.[1]  So I think these cautionary _natural_ signs
 shouldn't be shown at all?

 [1]

http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/notation/displaying-pitches#automatic-accidentals

 As a work-around you would have to manually hide each of these unwanted
 accidentals, but it would probably be easier at that point to use modern
 style and manually force the natural signs to appear, by adding a ! after
 the note like this: c!  Or maybe a different style (like forget ?) would
be
 close enough to what you want?

 HTH,
 -Paul
___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Extra naturals in accidental-style teaching?

[Paul Morris]

Ariel Barton wrote
 I think that what I want is not the forget style, but to have Lilypond
 typeset everything in C major/A minor. I'd still sort of like to print
 the true key signature; do you know if there's a way to print the D major
 keysignature while it's in C? 

See the following which does what you describe.  The \omit line inserts but
does not display a grace note between the two key signatures, and the
\override line prevents the key cancellation from being shown.  

\version 2.18.0

\relative f' {
  \key g \major
  \omit \grace s8
  \override Staff.KeyCancellation.stencil = ##f
  \key c \major
  c8 cis d dis e f fis g gis a ais b c
}

One problem is that if you want the g key signature to be shown at the
beginning of each line, as is customary, then you would need to do something
like this at the beginning of each line (ugh).  So it's not really a good
solution.  Another possibility might be to replace the c major stencil, but
that will not really be any better I don't think...

-Paul



--
View this message in context: 
http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/Extra-naturals-in-accidental-style-teaching-tp161142p161319.html
Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Extra naturals in accidental-style teaching?

[Ariel Barton]

Hello,

I am trying to use the accidental style teaching to make my music a
little easier to use. The problem is, teaching produces a whole lot of
superfluous natural signs that aren't really helpful; they just clutter up
the page. (They don't seem to follow any particular rules, either; they
seem to be distributed at random.) Can you tell me how to get rid of them
(while keeping the courtesy sharps and flats)?

Thank you,
Ariel Barton

(Here is an example: note that the first song is in C major with no
accidentals and I still have a lot of random natural signs.)

\version 2.18.2
\language english
\layout {
\context {
\Staff
#(set-accidental-style 'teaching)
 }
}
\relative c'{
\key c \major \time 2/4
e8 g g g | g a g f | e g g g | g a g f | e g d f | e g d f |
e4 d | c2 |
}
\relative c' {
\key e \minor \partial 4
b4 | g' g fs fs | g8 g4. e2 | b4 b4 ds8 ds4.   | e2. b4 |
g' g fs fs | g8 g4. e2 | b4 b4 ds8 ds4.| e1 |
e8 e4.~ e2 | a4 a2.| b4. (as8) b4. as8 | b4 b8(a?) g
(e4.) |
g4 e2 (g4) | e8(d) b2. | b4 b4 ds8 ds4.| e2.
}
___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Extra naturals in accidental-style teaching?

[Paul Morris]

Ariel Barton wrote
 I am trying to use the accidental style teaching to make my music a
 little easier to use. The problem is, teaching produces a whole lot of
 superfluous natural signs that aren't really helpful; they just clutter up
 the page. (They don't seem to follow any particular rules, either; they
 seem to be distributed at random.) 

Hi Ariel,  It seems that these cautionary natural signs appear any time a
given note occurs again, if it is not immediately following the same note.  

\version 2.18.2
\new Staff {
  \accidentalStyle teaching
  \key c \major
  \relative f' {
  c8 d c d e e f e f e e d c c d e
  }
}

This may be a bug. The docs say cautionary accidentals are added for all
sharp or flat tones specified by the key signature, except if the note is
immediately repeated.[1]  So I think these cautionary _natural_ signs
shouldn't be shown at all?

[1]
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/notation/displaying-pitches#automatic-accidentals

As a work-around you would have to manually hide each of these unwanted
accidentals, but it would probably be easier at that point to use modern
style and manually force the natural signs to appear, by adding a ! after
the note like this: c!  Or maybe a different style (like forget ?) would be
close enough to what you want?

HTH,
-Paul



--
View this message in context: 
http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/Extra-naturals-in-accidental-style-teaching-tp161142p161165.html
Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Extra naturals in accidental-style teaching?

[Keith OHara]

Paul Morris paul at paulwmorris.com writes:

 Ariel Barton wrote
  I am trying to use the accidental style teaching to make my music a
  little easier to use. The problem is, teaching produces a whole lot of
  superfluous natural signs that aren't really helpful; they just clutter up
  the page. (They don't seem to follow any particular rules, either; they
  seem to be distributed at random.) 
 

 This may be a bug. 

Yes. Version 2.14 of LilyPond printed reminders for only sharps and flats.
I put https://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=3894
on the bug list.  
This is something that can be fixed without recompiling LilyPond, so any
one of a number of people here might follow that link to the change in code
that changed behavior, figure out what was intended, and a way to do
it with the desired output.



___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Website harmony teaching

[Valentin Villenave]

2008/9/15 Han-Wen Nienhuys [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 -- Forwarded message --
 From: Ron [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: Sun, Sep 14, 2008 at 7:43 PM
 Subject: Fwd: Website harmony teaching
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Can Lilypond be of help for a set up of Java music notation on a website to 
 interact with users?

Greetings,

there are several systems that allow to do so, but you need to know
that a) lilypond-based web applications are still at a very early
stage, b) you will need a (powerful) dedicated server to host your
lilypond application, and c) no LilyPond-oriented Java applet has been
developed so far.

Perhaps the best way to allow your users to enter LilyPond syntax and
see an image of their score in return is to use a CMS plugin; there
are several solutions out there (a wordpress plugin, a mediaWiki
plugin and a SPIP plugin), but none of these is really simple to set
up.

Good luck!

Cheers,
Valentin


___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Website harmony teaching

[Kieren MacMillan]

Hi Mike/Ron:

The least we can do perhaps is sometime get together for a coffee  
or beer
(preferably beer) and look at the options - tons of places around  
there are wireless hot spots.


See you at the Duke of York?  =)
Kieren.


___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Fwd: Website harmony teaching

[Han-Wen Nienhuys]

-- Forwarded message --
From: Ron [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun, Sep 14, 2008 at 7:43 PM
Subject: Fwd: Website harmony teaching
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]




Begin forwarded message:

 From: Ron [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: September 14, 2008 3:38:08 PM PDT
 To: lilypond-user@gnu.org
 Subject: Website harmony teaching

 Hello,

 I wish to start giving online music theory and harmony lessons for RCM exam 
 preparation in Canada. I wish to set up a website where the students and I 
 can interact in music notation online.

 Can Lilypond be of help for a set up of Java music notation on a website to 
 interact with users?


 Regards,

 Ron Linnebach
 Music teacher
 (604) 542-7155




-- 
Han-Wen Nienhuys - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.xs4all.nl/~hanwen


___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user