John Crook (Was re: Voice split across staves?)

2015-09-09 Thread Joel C. Salomon 
On 09/08/2015 05:35 PM, Simon Albrecht wrote:
> Am 08.09.2015 um 22:47 schrieb Joel C. Salomon:
>> I’m trying to re-create John Crook’s original score to Peter Pan (yes,
>> it’s in the public domain)
> 
> Just a sidenote: I tried to find this John Crook or any detail about his
> life on the web and he seems to be famously obscure – there’s no
> information at all! except that he wrote this Peter Pan music, which was
> published in 1905 . Astounding! Do you
> know anything more?

He was apparently somewhat known in his own lifetime; there’s a short
biography at .
WorldCat ()
references a good number of his works in libraries, but I’ve hardly come
across any recordings of any of this. (There is a CD available, “100
Years of Peter Pan” whose first few tracks include Crook’s music. But
that’s not much.)

The version you pointed to is quite a bit longer than the one on Google
Books, and includes several more songs & lyrics. Thank you for that; I’d
seen reference to this longer version and thought I’d need to find it in
dead-tree form in some library. (I’ve also come across mention of an
80-page instrumental score, but I don’t know if that was ever published.)

It’s beautiful music, and ought not to be forgotten.

—Joel Salomon

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Re: Voice split across staves?

2015-09-09 Thread Joel C. Salomon 
On 09/08/2015 11:34 PM, Keith OHara wrote:
> Your second setting, using two Voices in the upper staff, with output
> that matches the printed score, is the way to go.
> 
> What you think of as one logical voice, the one with the chords, is
> split across the pianists two hands.  Piano music always prints this
> in a way that looks like separate voices, so it is best to use separate
> LilyPond Voice contexts.   If you join the chord across the staves,
> the reader will think it is a recommendation to play the chord with a
> single hand, which is not the best way to perform this piece.

Thank you: that explains a lot.

—Joel

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Re: Voice split across staves?

2015-09-08 Thread Keith OHara 
Joel C. Salomon  gmail.com> writes:

> my specific
> question is how best to show what seems to be a voice split across
> staves.  The following example should show what I mean: I’ve set the
> piece’s first bar twice, the first time as seems logical to me, the
> second time as it appears in the printed score:
> 

Your second setting, using two Voices in the upper staff, with output
that matches the printed score, is the way to go.

What you think of as one logical voice, the one with the chords, is
split across the pianists two hands.  Piano music always prints this
in a way that looks like separate voices, so it is best to use separate
LilyPond Voice contexts.   If you join the chord across the staves,
the reader will think it is a recommendation to play the chord with a
single hand, which is not the best way to perform this piece.
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Re: Voice split across staves?

2015-09-08 Thread Simon Albrecht 

Am 08.09.2015 um 22:47 schrieb Joel C. Salomon:

I’m trying to re-create John Crook’s original score to Peter Pan (yes,
it’s in the public domain)


Just a sidenote: I tried to find this John Crook or any detail about his 
life on the web and he seems to be famously obscure – there’s no 
information at all! except that he wrote this Peter Pan music, which was 
published in 1905 
. 
Astounding! Do you know anything more?


Yours, Simon

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RE: Voice split across staves?

2015-09-08 Thread Mark Stephen Mrotek 
Joel:

Does this work for you? (see attachment)

Mafrk

-Original Message-
From: lilypond-user-bounces+carsonmark=ca.rr@gnu.org 
[mailto:lilypond-user-bounces+carsonmark=ca.rr@gnu.org] On Behalf Of Joel 
C. Salomon
Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2015 1:48 PM
To: LilyPond Users 
Subject: Voice split across staves?

I’m trying to re-create John Crook’s original score to Peter Pan (yes, it’s in 
the public domain) for the Mutopia project, and I’m finding that my lack of 
musical education is getting in the way.

I’m trying to set “Pipe with the Ostrich”, as visible at 
<https://books.google.com/books?id=J-wQYAAJ&pg=PT43>; my current effort is 
at 
<https://github.com/jcsalomon/MutopiaProject/blob/peterpan/ftp/CrookJ/PeterPan/PP06_Pipe_with_the_Ostrich/PP06_Pipe_with_the_Ostrich.ly>.

While critiques of my Lilypond style are also welcome, my specific question is 
how best to show what seems to be a voice split across staves.  The following 
example should show what I mean: I’ve set the piece’s first bar twice, the 
first time as seems logical to me, the second time as it appears in the printed 
score:

\version "2.18.2"
\language "english"
global = {
  \key d \major
  \time 2/4
}

upperStaff = \relative c'' {
  d8. e16 d8  b8  |
<< { \voiceOne
  d8. e16 d8  b8  |
} \new Voice { \voiceTwo
  fs4 fs8 fs  |
} >>
}

lowerStaff = \relative c {
  4 q8  q   |
  4 q8  q   |
}

\score {
  \context PianoStaff <<
\new Staff = "upper" { \clef treble \global \upperStaff }
\new Staff = "lower" { \clef bass \global \lowerStaff }
  >>
  \layout{ }
  \midi { }
}

The “Cross-staff stems” section in the documentation shows a way to draw the 
chords so they cross the gap, but remain connected. One one hand, this is 
different from the printed source; on the other hand, this might be better 
style. On the gripping hand, I can’t see how to apply the sample code to music 
organized as I’ve been doing it.

Could somebody please point me in the right direction?

—Joel C. Salomon

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\version "2.18.2"
\language "english"
global = {
  \key d \major
  \time 2/4
}

upperStaff = \relative c'' {
  << { d8. e16 d8 b8 | d8. e16 d8 b8 } \\
 { fs4 fs8 fs fs4 fs8 fs } >>
}

lowerStaff = \relative c {
  4 q8  q   |
  4 q8  q   |
}

\score {
  \context PianoStaff <<
\new Staff = "upper" { \clef treble \global \upperStaff }
\new Staff = "lower" { \clef bass \global \lowerStaff }
  >>
  \layout{ }
  \midi { }
}
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Re: Voice split across staves?

2015-09-08 Thread Simon Albrecht 

Hello Joel,

Am 08.09.2015 um 22:47 schrieb Joel C. Salomon:

I’m trying to re-create John Crook’s original score to Peter Pan (yes,
it’s in the public domain) for the Mutopia project, and I’m finding that
my lack of musical education is getting in the way.

I’m trying to set “Pipe with the Ostrich”, as visible at
<https://books.google.com/books?id=J-wQYAAJ&pg=PT43>; my current
effort is at
<https://github.com/jcsalomon/MutopiaProject/blob/peterpan/ftp/CrookJ/PeterPan/PP06_Pipe_with_the_Ostrich/PP06_Pipe_with_the_Ostrich.ly>.

While critiques of my Lilypond style are also welcome,


LilyPond coding style is still very much a matter of personal 
preference. There are some suggestions in 
<http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/usage/general-suggestions>, 
and some conventions, which partly you seem to know:

– one bar per line
– extra blank lines every n bars
– bar number comments
– { … } and similar should either go on one line or be
{
  …
}
– &c.
One thing can also be said quite definitely: Use \new if a context 
doesn’t exist yet and \context only to reference contexts which already 
exist. (Maybe others will come and contradict decisively… however I 
think this is a quite reasonable convention.)
And there is one inofficial standard: the ‘format’ function of 
python-ly, used in Frescobaldi <http://frescobaldi.org>, which I do 
recommend.
[For Scheme code there is a quite official coding style, which is quite 
(though not completely) well-defined and generally used: 
<http://community.schemewiki.org/?scheme-style>. Although you don’t 
happen to make notable use of Scheme code.]


Considering your particular file, I wouldn’t like the excess (if I may 
say so) use of whitespace. I don’t go any further than

{
  g8 a b a  b c d c
  b16 a g a  b a b c   d8 16 c  b8 16 a
}
normally. I find that more readable. But, as I said: that’s highly 
personal, and unfortunately we’re nowhere near any consensus which would 
allow everybody to read someone else’s code without getting a headache :-/.



  my specific
question is how best to show what seems to be a voice split across
staves.


Well, LilyPond’s rather strict logics (currently?) prevent such a thing 
like splitting a voice across staves. You’ll need separate voices, and 
\crossStaff – of which you are already aware – provides a facility to 
draw a stem across staves under standard circumstances (no force-hshift, 
same \voiceXXX, …).



The “Cross-staff stems” section in the documentation shows a way to draw
the chords so they cross the gap, but remain connected. One one hand,
this is different from the printed source; on the other hand, this might
be better style. On the gripping hand, I can’t see how to apply the
sample code to music organized as I’ve been doing it.

Could somebody please point me in the right direction?


See attached. I just adapted all of your code to my personal coding 
style, just as a suggestion so you can see what is possible.


Yours, Simon
\version "2.18.2"
\language "english"

global = {
  \key d \major
  \time 2/4
}

upperStaff = \relative {
  d''8. e16  d8 b8 |
  <<
{
  \voiceOne d8. e16  d8 b8 |
}
\new Voice \crossStaff {
  \voiceTwo \autoBeamOff fs='4 fs8 fs |
}
  >>
}

lowerStaff = \relative {
  4 q8 q |
  4 q8 q |
}

\score {
  \new PianoStaff \with { \consists #Span_stem_engraver } <<
\new Staff = "upper" { \clef treble \global \upperStaff }
\new Staff = "lower" { \clef bass \global \lowerStaff }
  >>
  \layout{ }
  \midi { }
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Voice split across staves?

2015-09-08 Thread Joel C. Salomon 
I’m trying to re-create John Crook’s original score to Peter Pan (yes,
it’s in the public domain) for the Mutopia project, and I’m finding that
my lack of musical education is getting in the way.

I’m trying to set “Pipe with the Ostrich”, as visible at
<https://books.google.com/books?id=J-wQYAAJ&pg=PT43>; my current
effort is at
<https://github.com/jcsalomon/MutopiaProject/blob/peterpan/ftp/CrookJ/PeterPan/PP06_Pipe_with_the_Ostrich/PP06_Pipe_with_the_Ostrich.ly>.

While critiques of my Lilypond style are also welcome, my specific
question is how best to show what seems to be a voice split across
staves.  The following example should show what I mean: I’ve set the
piece’s first bar twice, the first time as seems logical to me, the
second time as it appears in the printed score:

\version "2.18.2"
\language "english"
global = {
  \key d \major
  \time 2/4
}

upperStaff = \relative c'' {
  d8. e16 d8  b8  |
<< { \voiceOne
  d8. e16 d8  b8  |
} \new Voice { \voiceTwo
  fs4 fs8 fs  |
} >>
}

lowerStaff = \relative c {
  4 q8  q   |
  4 q8  q   |
}

\score {
  \context PianoStaff <<
\new Staff = "upper" { \clef treble \global \upperStaff }
\new Staff = "lower" { \clef bass \global \lowerStaff }
  >>
  \layout{ }
  \midi { }
}

The “Cross-staff stems” section in the documentation shows a way to draw
the chords so they cross the gap, but remain connected. One one hand,
this is different from the printed source; on the other hand, this might
be better style. On the gripping hand, I can’t see how to apply the
sample code to music organized as I’ve been doing it.

Could somebody please point me in the right direction?

—Joel C. Salomon

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