Re: brittenPhrygolydian
On 18.01.2017 23:51, Thomas Morley wrote: Non-default scales are always user defined. How could we predict them? P.e. some FLAT/SHARP-combinations will collide others not... Which is why any automatic approach will have to involve horizontal skylines, as David N. already said. Best, Simon ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: brittenPhrygolydian
Hi Harm, Am 18.01.2017 um 23:51 schrieb Thomas Morley: > The default of zero is perfectly fine for all predefined scales, imho. You are right. I ran your example and withdraw my simple approach. Joram ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: brittenPhrygolydian
2017-01-18 23:00 GMT+01:00 Noeck : > Wouldn't it be an improvement if there was a default padding larger than > 0? Of course, the best option would be some type of kerning which works > between all possible combinations. But something like 0.2 staff spaces > between all accidentals would probably look better than no space at all. > I don't know if that's possible. > > — Joram I disagree. The default of zero is perfectly fine for all predefined scales, imho. A default of even 0.2 would look not tight enough: sz = 0.2 keyPadding = { \override Staff.KeySignature.padding = \sz \override Staff.KeyCancellation.padding = \sz } mus = { \key cis \major cis''1 \key ces \major ces'' } { \keyPadding \mus } \mus Furthermore, collisions only happen for non-default scales, which then could be adjusted via 'padding or 'padding-pairs for the KeySignature. Both are unset per default, which is the right thing. Non-default scales are always user defined. How could we predict them? P.e. some FLAT/SHARP-combinations will collide others not... So the user has to take care of it. Our responsibility should aim at explaining how to do it in an understandable manner. Admittedly the doc-string for 'padding-pairs doesn't seem to fullfill that... Cheers, Harm ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: brittenPhrygolydian
> On 17 Jan 2017, at 22:42, Simon Albrecht wrote: > The question came up about a curious key signature used by Britten, which > indicates only Ab and C#, ... Mode names are listed at [1]. Compute the differences in E12: G Ab B C# D E F G 1 3 2 1 2 1 2 and make search: 1 3 2 1 2 1 2 Mela Ramapriya, Raga Ramamanohari, Romanian Major, Petrushka chord 1. http://www.huygens-fokker.org/docs/modename.html ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: brittenPhrygolydian
Wouldn't it be an improvement if there was a default padding larger than 0? Of course, the best option would be some type of kerning which works between all possible combinations. But something like 0.2 staff spaces between all accidentals would probably look better than no space at all. I don't know if that's possible. — Joram ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: brittenPhrygolydian
On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 10:17 AM, David Nalesnik wrote: > On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 10:00 AM, Kieren MacMillan > wrote: > >> >> I understand that there are a huge number of possible key signatures, but >> can’t the collision in the first example (does it bother anyone else?) be >> "pre-fixed" somehow? >> > > There could be a more sophisticated grading of KeySignature.padding in > lily/key-signature-interface.cc, perhaps based on glyph extent. > Scrap the glyph-extent suggestion. You'd probably need to adjust padding based on certain juxtapositions. Maybe there's something possible with horizontal skylines, but I wouldn't know. DN ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: brittenPhrygolydian
On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 10:00 AM, Kieren MacMillan wrote: > > I understand that there are a huge number of possible key signatures, but > can’t the collision in the first example (does it bother anyone else?) be > "pre-fixed" somehow? > There could be a more sophisticated grading of KeySignature.padding in lily/key-signature-interface.cc, perhaps based on glyph extent. David ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: brittenPhrygolydian
Hi David, > There is no default setting. Padding controls the overall spacing > (with extra space allotted to naturals); you use padding-pairs to > affect certain collocations. Yes. I just think that there should be a better default than the one that was made apparent by Simon’s post yesterday, e.g. %%% SNIPPET BEGINS \version "2.19.54" brittenPhrygolydian = #`((0 . ,NATURAL) (1 . ,FLAT) (2 . ,NATURAL) (3 . ,SHARP) (4 . ,NATURAL) (5 . ,NATURAL) (6 . ,FLAT)) \relative { \key g \brittenPhrygolydian g'4 as b cis d e f g } \relative { \tweak padding-pairs #'((("accidentals.flat" . "accidentals.sharp") . 0.25)) \key g \brittenPhrygolydian g'4 as b cis d e f g }% %% SNIPPET ENDS I understand that there are a huge number of possible key signatures, but can’t the collision in the first example (does it bother anyone else?) be "pre-fixed" somehow? Thanks, Kieren. Kieren MacMillan, composer ‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info ‣ email: i...@kierenmacmillan.info ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: brittenPhrygolydian
Hey, Kieren! On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 7:33 AM, Kieren MacMillan-2 [via Lilypond] < ml-node+s1069038n199307...@n5.nabble.com> wrote: > Hi Simon (et al.), > > >> And LilyPond just has a fabulous, simple, and proper solution: > > > > Which is, by the way, also very well documented. > > But, apparently not well defaulted. ;) > > Where does one find the KeySignature.padding-pairs defaults? I did a file > search inside the Contents folder of my Lilypond application (Mac OS X) for > an explicit setting, but couldn’t find it. I thought it would be in > define-grobs, but wasn’t there. > >From what I can gather, the default is to gracefully fail (i.e., fall back to 'padding, but add a little extra space for naturals) when the user hasn't provided anything. Implementation details are found in lily/key-signature-interface.cc. HTH, Abraham -- View this message in context: http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/brittenPhrygolydian-tp199292p199309.html Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Fwd: brittenPhrygolydian
Oops. Now replying to list: -- Forwarded message -- From: David Nalesnik Date: Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 9:41 AM Subject: Re: brittenPhrygolydian To: Kieren MacMillan On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 8:31 AM, Kieren MacMillan wrote: > Hi Simon (et al.), > >>> And LilyPond just has a fabulous, simple, and proper solution: >> >> Which is, by the way, also very well documented. > > But, apparently not well defaulted. ;) > > Where does one find the KeySignature.padding-pairs defaults? I did a file > search inside the Contents folder of my Lilypond application (Mac OS X) for > an explicit setting, but couldn’t find it. I thought it would be in > define-grobs, but wasn’t there. There is no default setting. Padding controls the overall spacing (with extra space allotted to naturals); you use padding-pairs to affect certain collocations. Here's an example of usages (input/regression/key-signature-padding.ly): \header { texidoc = "With the @code{padding-pairs} property, distances between individual key signature items can be adjusted." } \version "2.19.7" { \override Staff.KeySignature.padding-pairs = #'((("accidentals.flat" . "accidentals.sharp.slashslash.stemstemstem") . 0.5)) \set Staff.keyAlterations = #`((4 . ,FLAT) (6 . ,THREE-Q-SHARP) (2 . ,SEMI-FLAT)) e2 } HTH, David ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: brittenPhrygolydian
Hi Simon (et al.), >> And LilyPond just has a fabulous, simple, and proper solution: > > Which is, by the way, also very well documented. But, apparently not well defaulted. ;) Where does one find the KeySignature.padding-pairs defaults? I did a file search inside the Contents folder of my Lilypond application (Mac OS X) for an explicit setting, but couldn’t find it. I thought it would be in define-grobs, but wasn’t there. Thanks, Kieren. Kieren MacMillan, composer ‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info ‣ email: i...@kierenmacmillan.info ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: brittenPhrygolydian
On 17.01.2017 22:42, Simon Albrecht wrote: Hello everybody, this is a big thank you and a shout of joy over having LilyPond! The question came up about a curious key signature used by Britten, which indicates only Ab and C#, and how to replicate this in Sibelius. Which involves a fake clef, lots of manual work, and hidden accidentals for correct playback. And LilyPond just has a fabulous, simple, and proper solution: Which is, by the way, also very well documented. % \version "2.19.53" brittenPhrygolydian = #`((0 . ,NATURAL) (1 . ,FLAT) (2 . ,NATURAL) (3 . ,SHARP) (4 . ,NATURAL) (5 . ,NATURAL) (6 . ,FLAT)) \relative { \key g \brittenPhrygolydian g'4 as b cis d e f g } % Yeah! Best, Simon ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
brittenPhrygolydian
Hello everybody, this is a big thank you and a shout of joy over having LilyPond! The question came up about a curious key signature used by Britten, which indicates only Ab and C#, and how to replicate this in Sibelius. Which involves a fake clef, lots of manual work, and hidden accidentals for correct playback. And LilyPond just has a fabulous, simple, and proper solution: % \version "2.19.53" brittenPhrygolydian = #`((0 . ,NATURAL) (1 . ,FLAT) (2 . ,NATURAL) (3 . ,SHARP) (4 . ,NATURAL) (5 . ,NATURAL) (6 . ,FLAT)) \relative { \key g \brittenPhrygolydian g'4 as b cis d e f g } % Yeah! Best, Simon ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user