Re: mixed \time

[Blöchl Bernhard]

Thanks for help! Obviously the correct terms for manual search are 
"unmetered" or "cadencas" ... sorry, I did not know.


If I understand that correctly
\remove "Bar_engraver"
and/or
\remove "Default_bar_line_engraver"
is not enough?

My simple minded interpretation of that \remove something was to switch 
it off to enabling me to set my personal barlines. Seems to be more 
complicated ...


Thanks for help again, regards




Am 12.09.2015 21:05, schrieb David Kastrup:


Blöchl Bernhard  writes:


Am 12.09.2015 20:39, schrieb:


There is nothing "polymetric" at all in that code.  You just have 
two

separate scores, one after the other.

It is not clear what you are trying to achieve here.



I did not claim that to be polyrhythm. Anyway, if you compile the code
you get a couple of double bars in the second half without any logic,
at least for me.


You are removing the Default_bar_line_engraver and not adding any
replacement.


However you name that, I want a double bar between the rising and
descending scales (with different length/rhythms?) and one double bar
at the end.


If you don't want any timing/spacing/subdivision, you can just do
\cadenzaOn instead of meddling with engravers.


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Re: mixed \time

[David Kastrup]

Blöchl Bernhard  writes:

> Thanks for help! Obviously the correct terms for manual search are
> "unmetered" or "cadencas" ... sorry, I did not know.
>
> If I understand that correctly
> \remove "Bar_engraver"
> and/or
> \remove "Default_bar_line_engraver"
> is not enough?

More like too much.

> My simple minded interpretation of that \remove something was to
> switch it off

What is "it"?  Removing an engraver removes functionality.  Some
functionality LilyPond cannot do without.

> to enabling me to set my personal barlines. Seems to be more
> complicated ...

The Internals Reference describes engravers.  The description for
Default_bar_line_engraver does not suggest that removing it would be a
good idea.  It describes several properties you might want to use for
influencing its behavior, though.


2.2.26 Default_bar_line_engraver


This engraver determines what kind of automatic bar lines should be
produced, and sets ‘whichBar’ accordingly.  It should be at the same
level as *note Timing_translator::.

   Properties (read)

 ‘automaticBars’ (boolean)
  If set to false then bar lines will not be printed
  automatically; they must be explicitly created with a ‘\bar’
  command.  Unlike the ‘\cadenzaOn’ keyword, measures are still
  counted.  Bar line generation will resume according to that
  count if this property is unset.

 ‘barAlways’ (boolean)
  If set to true a bar line is drawn after each note.

 ‘defaultBarType’ (string)
  Set the default type of bar line.  See ‘whichBar’ for
  information on available bar types.

  This variable is read by *note
  (lilypond-internals)Timing_translator:: at *note
  (lilypond-internals)Score:: level.

 ‘measureLength’ (moment)
  Length of one measure in the current time signature.

 ‘measurePosition’ (moment)
  How much of the current measure have we had.  This can be set
  manually to create incomplete measures.

 ‘timing’ (boolean)
  Keep administration of measure length, position, bar number,
  etc.?  Switch off for cadenzas.

 ‘whichBar’ (string)
  This property is read to determine what type of bar line to
  create.

  Example:

   \set Staff.whichBar = ".|:"

  This will create a start-repeat bar in this staff only.  Valid
  values are described in ‘scm/bar-line.scm’.

   ‘Default_bar_line_engraver’ is part of the following context(s):
*note Score::.

-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: mixed \time

[Blöchl Bernhard]

Am 10.09.2015 15:33, schrieb Phil Holmes:


I think what you need to look for is "polymetric notation" in the
Notation Reference.

--
Phil Holmes



Indeed my starting point was

In reality I did not mix \time, but changed the code for the question.

The original code was/is

%%%

\version "2.19.0"


#(set-global-staff-size 22)


\layout {

  \context {

\Score

%\remove "Timing_translator"

\remove "Default_bar_line_engraver"

  }

}


  \new Staff {

  %\key c \major

  \relative c'

  {

<>^"penatonic scale"

f4-"f" g4-"g" bes-"bes" c-"c" d-"d" f-"f"

\bar "||"

f-"f"   d-"d" c-"c" bes-"bes" g-"g" f-"f"

\bar "||"

  }

  }





  \new Staff {

   %\key c \major

  \relative c'

  {

<>^"penatonic scale + blue note b5"

f4-"f" g4-"g" b-"b" bes-"bes" c-"c" d-"d" f-"f"

\bar "||"

f-"f"   d-"d" c-"c" b-"b" bes-"bes" g-"g" f-"f"

\bar "||"

  }

  }



I tried different combinations for \layout{} from

did it again, but I always get unwanted double bars.

I expect one double bar in the middle and one at the end.


Regards

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Re: mixed \time

[Blöchl Bernhard]

I did not claim that to be polyrhythm. Anyway, if you compile the code 
you get a couple of double bars in the second half without any logic, at 
least for me.


However you name that, I want a double bar between the rising and 
descending scales (with different length/rhythms?) and one double bar at 
the end.


Regards

Am 12.09.2015 20:39, schrieb David Kastrup:

Blöchl Bernhard  writes:


Am 10.09.2015 15:33, schrieb Phil Holmes:


I think what you need to look for is "polymetric notation" in the
Notation Reference.

--
Phil Holmes



Indeed my starting point was

In reality I did not mix \time, but changed the code for the question.

The original code was/is

%%%

\version "2.19.0"


[...]

There is nothing "polymetric" at all in that code.  You just have two
separate scores, one after the other.

It is not clear what you are trying to achieve here.


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Re: mixed \time

[David Kastrup]

Blöchl Bernhard  writes:

> Am 10.09.2015 15:33, schrieb Phil Holmes:
>> 
>> I think what you need to look for is "polymetric notation" in the
>> Notation Reference.
>>
>> --
>> Phil Holmes
>>
>
> Indeed my starting point was
> 
> In reality I did not mix \time, but changed the code for the question.
>
> The original code was/is
>
> %%%
>
> \version "2.19.0"

[...]

There is nothing "polymetric" at all in that code.  You just have two
separate scores, one after the other.

It is not clear what you are trying to achieve here.

-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: mixed \time

[David Kastrup]

Blöchl Bernhard  writes:

>> Am 12.09.2015 20:39, schrieb:

>>> There is nothing "polymetric" at all in that code.  You just have two
>>> separate scores, one after the other.
>>>
>>> It is not clear what you are trying to achieve here.
>
>
> I did not claim that to be polyrhythm. Anyway, if you compile the code
> you get a couple of double bars in the second half without any logic,
> at least for me.

You are removing the Default_bar_line_engraver and not adding any
replacement.

> However you name that, I want a double bar between the rising and
> descending scales (with different length/rhythms?) and one double bar
> at the end.

If you don't want any timing/spacing/subdivision, you can just do
\cadenzaOn instead of meddling with engravers.

-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: mixed \time

[BB]

Indeed my starting point was
 
<%3CURL:http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/notation/displaying-rhythms#polymetric-notation%3E>

In reality I did not mix \time, but changed the code for the question.

The original code was/is

%%%

\version "2.19.0"

#(set-global-staff-size 22)

\layout {

\context {

\Score

%\remove "Timing_translator"

\remove "Default_bar_line_engraver"

}

}

\new Staff {

%\key c \major

\relative c'

{

<>^"penatonic scale"

f4-"f" g4-"g" bes-"bes" c-"c" d-"d" f-"f"

\bar "||"

f-"f" d-"d" c-"c" bes-"bes" g-"g" f-"f"

\bar "||"

}

}

\new Staff {

%\key c \major

\relative c'

{

<>^"penatonic scale + blue note b5"

f4-"f" g4-"g" b-"b" bes-"bes" c-"c" d-"d" f-"f"

\bar "||"

f-"f" d-"d" c-"c" b-"b" bes-"bes" g-"g" f-"f"

\bar "||"

}

} 

I tried different combinations for \layout{} from 
 
<%3CURL:http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/notation/displaying-rhythms#polymetric-notation%3E> 
did it again, but I always get unwanted double bars.


I expect one double bar in the middle and one at the end.

Regards



On 10.09.2015 15:28, David Kastrup wrote:

BB  writes:


I tried sommething strange. I tried to mix tempo 4/4 and 6/8 in one
score. I had no success as only the last defined tempo will be used.

LilyPond comes with a manual, and polymetric notation is dealt with
exactly where you'd expect it to be.





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Re: mixed \time

[David Kastrup]

BB  writes:

> I tried sommething strange. I tried to mix tempo 4/4 and 6/8 in one
> score. I had no success as only the last defined tempo will be used.

LilyPond comes with a manual, and polymetric notation is dealt with
exactly where you'd expect it to be.



-- 
David Kastrup

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mixed \time

[BB]

I tried sommething strange. I tried to mix tempo 4/4 and 6/8 in one 
score. I had no success as only the last defined tempo will be used.


Regards

%%%

\version "2.19.0"

#(set-global-staff-size 23)

first= \relative c' {

\time 4/4

\key d \major

d4 e f fis a b d r8 a4 bes b d e g r4 a8 b c cis e f a r8

\break

}

second = \relative c' {

\time 6/8

\key c \major

f,4-"f" g4-"g" bes-"bes" c-"c" d-"d" f-"f" g-"g" bes-"bes" c-"c" d-"d" 
f-"f" g-"g" bes-"bes" a b c cis e r8


}

\score {

<<

\new Staff { \first }

\new TabStaff {

<>^"1st guitar"

\tabFullNotation

\transpose c c,

\first

}

\new Staff { \second }

\new TabStaff {

<>^"2nd guitar"

\tabFullNotation

\second

%\pentatonic-DGA

}

>>

}

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Re: mixed \time

[Phil Holmes]

I think what you need to look for is "polymetric notation" in the Notation 
Reference.

--
Phil Holmes


  - Original Message - 
  From: BB 
  To: lilypond-user@gnu.org 
  Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2015 2:09 PM
  Subject: mixed \time


  I tried sommething strange. I tried to mix tempo 4/4 and 6/8 in one score. I 
had no success as only the last defined tempo will be used. 

  Regards 

  %%% 


  \version "2.19.0"


  #(set-global-staff-size 23) 


  first= \relative c' {

  \time 4/4 

  \key d \major

  d4 e f fis a b d r8 a4 bes b d e g r4 a8 b c cis e f a r8

  \break

  }


  second = \relative c' {

  \time 6/8

  \key c \major

  f,4-"f" g4-"g" bes-"bes" c-"c" d-"d" f-"f" g-"g" bes-"bes" c-"c" d-"d" f-"f" 
g-"g" bes-"bes" a b c cis e r8

  }


  \score {

  <<

  \new Staff { \first }

  \new TabStaff {

  <>^"1st guitar" 

  \tabFullNotation

  \transpose c c,

  \first

  }


  \new Staff { \second }

  \new TabStaff {

  <>^"2nd guitar" 

  \tabFullNotation

  \second

  %\pentatonic-DGA

  }

  >>

  }



--


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Re: Mixed Time Signatures: Non regular alternantion between 5/8 and 8/8

[Reinhold Kainhofer]

Am Sonntag, 22. August 2010, um 11:40:14 schrieb David Bobroff:
   On 8/22/2010 9:32 AM, fauban wrote:
  Dear Lilypond community:
  I am typesetting a piece in two sections:
  The first one consists of 5/8 and 8/8 bars. Their alternaton does not
  follow any pattern.
  Then, the next section is always in 9/8.
  
  How can I engrave one of those mixed time signatures (that is, 5/8 8/8)?
  (Here is an example from Wikipedia:
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_signature#Mixed_meters , you must
  scroll down a bit, until you see the 3/4 6/8 signature).
  
  Thank you very much!
 
 Are you sure that you want to display a 5/8 8/8 time signature?  In the
 example you linked to the mix is 6/8 3/4 which are simply two different
 ways of organizing the same time value in each measure.  You're talking
 about 5/8 and 8/8 which are not interchangeable time values.  Assuming
 that in your mixed 5/8 8/8 section the 8th note pulse remains constant
 it would be misleading, confusing and annoying to read.  I would
 recommend changing the time signature when it is appropriate to do so.

Actually, for 20th-century music it's no uncommon to have alternating time 
signatures. I have a score of the Psalmenproprium by Haselböck (Verlag 
Doblinger), which very frequently has time signatures like 3/4 4/4 or even 
2/4 3/4 3/8 5/8 (yes, four different values!). There is no regularity in the 
order and length that the different meters appear in the score. 

The main problem for lilypond is not the display, since the stencil can be 
easily overridden, but rather the automatic barline feature, which needs to 
know how long a particular measure needs to be. With those alternating time 
signatures, all you know is that the measure should have a length that is in 
the list of given fractions, but you don't know which.

Cheers,
Reinhold


-- 
--
Reinhold Kainhofer, reinh...@kainhofer.com, http://reinhold.kainhofer.com/
 * Financial  Actuarial Math., Vienna Univ. of Technology, Austria
 * http://www.fam.tuwien.ac.at/, DVR: 0005886
 * LilyPond, Music typesetting, http://www.lilypond.org

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