Re: oldie/newbie convert/fresco question
Hi Jay, Le 02/08/2021 à 15:50, jh a écrit : Hello- Jean, I think you clarified a few things. 1] I don't need online connection, 2] that the Fresco button is merely a GUI, 3] you thought I was using a terminal which I am not so during the ongoing-forever attempt there was no error/message it just ran, Oh, I didn't, telling about the terminal was essentially illustrative (but it could also assist debugging). When you run convert-ly in Frescobaldi, the log from convert-ly is printed. For example, deliberately introducing an infinite loop in the conversion rule for version 2.23.4, I get the log in this screenshot, which shows the conversion is hanging on 2.23.4: So where does it stop for you? Does this happen on all files? If not, could you send an example file where the program never finishes? If it does not print any output at all, something is going wrong with the OS as David mentioned. If there is some kind of output, it could be something else (like, technically speaking, a regular expression with catastrophic backtracking). 4] Fresco does update individual files to newest version but it does not change the format/layout that i am familiar with in 2.18 which is very confusing as all the latest examples of ly questions are totally foreign to me. This is the part that where you ask if documentation should be clearer is a problem. The changes of where information goes after 2.18 made/make little sense to me as the 2.18 ways worked for a very long time and to change them without any ability to understand the why of the change (sometimes that explanation was 'better coding' but since I am not a coder doesn't mean anything/is not an explanation that tells me the how or why; and perhaps means I am not to understand) and after years of using lily it felt like I was going to have to start completely over. Could you give examples? Usually, LilyPond contributors try not to break existing functionality when adding new functionality. Of course, some amount of breakage is occasionally necessary, but convert-ly typically does a good job (ok, you have not been able to run it yet) and the necessary manual changes are few. So the changes are supposed to extend the range of what you can do with LilyPond without hampering your existing uses. When you say "format/layout", do you mean the layout of the code (indentation etc.) or the layout of the printed music? Since 2.18 worked fine starting over seemed/seems not an option. I like many am a working composer. The time I spent learning (still learning) how to use the program to do what I wanted to do took a few years and as I say I am still learning to do it with the older version. To get work done after the pencil work at an instrument it always was more efficient to stay with what I knew, that worked, than to spend time unproductively relearning for the same result. I am going on too long but most of the questions I read about are very very technical and not in my range of needs. So again the urge to change is diminished. Thank you for clarifying the online not online question, I am fearful since I will be using the new version that I will not understand the why or even the how to layout lily that I will be back with absurdly simple questions but also hope this will not be the case. Feel free -- there are no dumb questions on this list! Best, Jean
Re: oldie/newbie convert/fresco question
Hello- Jean, I think you clarified a few things. 1] I don't need online connection, 2] that the Fresco button is merely a GUI, 3] you thought I was using a terminal which I am not so during the ongoing-forever attempt there was no error/message it just ran, 4] Fresco does update individual files to newest version but it does not change the format/layout that i am familiar with in 2.18 which is very confusing as all the latest examples of ly questions are totally foreign to me. This is the part that where you ask if documentation should be clearer is a problem. The changes of where information goes after 2.18 made/make little sense to me as the 2.18 ways worked for a very long time and to change them without any ability to understand the why of the change (sometimes that explanation was 'better coding' but since I am not a coder doesn't mean anything/is not an explanation that tells me the how or why; and perhaps means I am not to understand) and after years of using lily it felt like I was going to have to start completely over. Since 2.18 worked fine starting over seemed/seems not an option. I like many am a working composer. The time I spent learning (still learning) how to use the program to do what I wanted to do took a few years and as I say I am still learning to do it with the older version. To get work done after the pencil work at an instrument it always was more efficient to stay with what I knew, that worked, than to spend time unproductively relearning for the same result. I am going on too long but most of the questions I read about are very very technical and not in my range of needs. So again the urge to change is diminished. Thank you for clarifying the online not online question, I am fearful since I will be using the new version that I will not understand the why or even the how to layout lily that I will be back with absurdly simple questions but also hope this will not be the case. thanks Jay On 2021-08-01 10:28, Jean Abou Samra wrote: Hello Jay, Sorry for the previous message, obviously sent by accident! Le 01/08/2021 à 18:10, jh a écrit : A while back David K kept on trying to get me to update beyond 2.18.2 even though I said I'd failed a number of times and that many of the changes between these versions seem opaque to me. Well, what changes between 2.18 and 2.22 seem opaque to you? If some entries in the Changes document are not understandable by users, that should be fixed. My main text editor has developed a major crash where it freezes everything and the creator is unable to fix it. I have rarely used Frescobaldi because generally everything has worked but when stymied it has helped in the past to find my mistake. So I decided to default to it. Noticed that it has a convert ly tool tried it. Do note that the convert-ly tool is provided by LilyPond and thus dependent on the version of LilyPond. Frescobaldi merely gives you a GUI button to run it. You could also run it using the command line. The Application Usage manual explains how to do this. http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.23/Documentation/usage/invoking-convert_002dly This machine is generally not online; the convert tool ran for 4 hours and nothing changed. I gave in and went online and the tool does work. 1] it seems that this will not work if unconnected to the internet. My notation win10 is not connected for various reasons and just as I have had issues with updating versions to lily I have even connected to the internet am unable to update win10 which is fine- sort of. but 2] if convert ly requires internet connection I'm kind of stuck because win10 did not allow (or didn't tell me how to have two versions of lily on my machine. So I downloaded the current version uninstalled 2.18 and installed the current version 22.something. so Must I be online in order to access my thousand of pieces (my compositions) written in everything from 1.? and 2.18? to get this to work or is there more than another way? convert-ly ships with LilyPond with all conversion rules built in and does not access the Net in any way. The problem must be elsewhere. When you say that convert-ly hung, what did it print on the command line? I'm kind of hoping this is the right place to ask this as it is connected to Frescobaldi but seems to me to be a lily question. Yes, it is the right place. Best regards, Jean
Re: oldie/newbie convert/fresco question
jh writes: > A while back David K kept on trying to get me to update beyond 2.18.2 > even though I said I'd failed a number of times and that many of the > changes between these versions seem opaque to me. > > My main text editor has developed a major crash where it freezes > everything and the creator is unable to fix it. Text editors don't "develop" such things. It sounds like your system is deteriorating, either on the hardware level or because of some updates increasingly having destabilised the overall coherence. Assuming that you are not suffering from malware. > I have rarely used Frescobaldi because generally everything has worked > but when stymied it has helped in the past to find my mistake. > So I decided to default to it. Noticed that it has a convert ly tool > tried it. > This machine is generally not online; the convert tool ran for 4 hours > and nothing changed. I gave in and went online and the tool does > work. > > 1] it seems that this will not work if unconnected to the internet. I am not a regular Frescobaldi user but when I used it, it never required Internet access except possibly for items in the Help menus referencing online manuals and other resources (LSR?). LilyPond itself does not really have any connectivity. If convert-ly gets stuck without Internet access (and runs with it), the most likely reason is that the Python executable it is running on requires such Internet access. And the most likely reason for that is that it or one of the underlying libraries is infected by malware. > My notation win10 is not connected for various reasons and just as I > have had issues with updating versions to lily I have even connected > to the internet am unable to update win10 which is fine- sort of. In the context of this discussion, I cannot rule out that regular win10 here counts as malware in that it may require connectivity for doing something. I don't have relevant experience using win10 so I have no idea whether that could be the case. It's conceivable that your security software refuses to run some software before it had an opportunity to ask the Microsoft databases whether something bad is known about it. > I'm kind of hoping this is the right place to ask this as it is > connected to Frescobaldi but seems to me to be a lily question. I think this is not related to LilyPond, likely at best marginally related to Frescobaldi, and most likely related to your system and possibly its security settings or its affliction by malware. -- David Kastrup
Re: oldie/newbie convert/fresco question
Hello Jay, Sorry for the previous message, obviously sent by accident! Le 01/08/2021 à 18:10, jh a écrit : A while back David K kept on trying to get me to update beyond 2.18.2 even though I said I'd failed a number of times and that many of the changes between these versions seem opaque to me. Well, what changes between 2.18 and 2.22 seem opaque to you? If some entries in the Changes document are not understandable by users, that should be fixed. My main text editor has developed a major crash where it freezes everything and the creator is unable to fix it. I have rarely used Frescobaldi because generally everything has worked but when stymied it has helped in the past to find my mistake. So I decided to default to it. Noticed that it has a convert ly tool tried it. Do note that the convert-ly tool is provided by LilyPond and thus dependent on the version of LilyPond. Frescobaldi merely gives you a GUI button to run it. You could also run it using the command line. The Application Usage manual explains how to do this. http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.23/Documentation/usage/invoking-convert_002dly This machine is generally not online; the convert tool ran for 4 hours and nothing changed. I gave in and went online and the tool does work. 1] it seems that this will not work if unconnected to the internet. My notation win10 is not connected for various reasons and just as I have had issues with updating versions to lily I have even connected to the internet am unable to update win10 which is fine- sort of. but 2] if convert ly requires internet connection I'm kind of stuck because win10 did not allow (or didn't tell me how to have two versions of lily on my machine. So I downloaded the current version uninstalled 2.18 and installed the current version 22.something. so Must I be online in order to access my thousand of pieces (my compositions) written in everything from 1.? and 2.18? to get this to work or is there more than another way? convert-ly ships with LilyPond with all conversion rules built in and does not access the Net in any way. The problem must be elsewhere. When you say that convert-ly hung, what did it print on the command line? I'm kind of hoping this is the right place to ask this as it is connected to Frescobaldi but seems to me to be a lily question. Yes, it is the right place. Best regards, Jean
oldie/newbie convert/fresco question
A while back David K kept on trying to get me to update beyond 2.18.2 even though I said I'd failed a number of times and that many of the changes between these versions seem opaque to me. My main text editor has developed a major crash where it freezes everything and the creator is unable to fix it. I have rarely used Frescobaldi because generally everything has worked but when stymied it has helped in the past to find my mistake. So I decided to default to it. Noticed that it has a convert ly tool tried it. This machine is generally not online; the convert tool ran for 4 hours and nothing changed. I gave in and went online and the tool does work. 1] it seems that this will not work if unconnected to the internet. My notation win10 is not connected for various reasons and just as I have had issues with updating versions to lily I have even connected to the internet am unable to update win10 which is fine- sort of. but 2] if convert ly requires internet connection I'm kind of stuck because win10 did not allow (or didn't tell me how to have two versions of lily on my machine. So I downloaded the current version uninstalled 2.18 and installed the current version 22.something. so Must I be online in order to access my thousand of pieces (my compositions) written in everything from 1.? and 2.18? to get this to work or is there more than another way? I'm kind of hoping this is the right place to ask this as it is connected to Frescobaldi but seems to me to be a lily question. Thanks Jay -- Thank you Sound & Silence Beginning May 1, 2021 a new address; 1814 Lake Washington Blvd. So., Seattle, Wa. 98144 _206-328-7694 or messages at 206-308-8189_ www.soundand.com and an online short (45 minute) concert of new material on Wayward in Limbo https://www.waywardmusic.org/?p=6082 I am looking for 2-3 dancers various abilities/disciplines for a piece Called The Box it was scheduled for November but we know how that has gone. However I am interested in making videos of the moves and having dancers work on them and the music before we can get into the same room... Paid rehearsals and the door divided evenly by participants. Spread the word please.
