Re: stacking whole notes of different size

[Marc Hohl]

Hi Harm, hi Stephen,

Am 02.09.2015 um 00:16 schrieb Thomas Morley:
[...]

Hi Marc,

I wrote some test
[...]
I hope it helps a bit, although I've found no convincing general value.
png with your example is attached as well.


thanks a lot for your investigations! Now I have something to work with ...

Do you consider that this is a bug, or are there any design decisions 
that explain this behavior?


Best regards,

Marc


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Re: stacking whole notes of different size

[Marc Hohl]

Hi again,

Am 02.09.2015 um 00:16 schrieb Thomas Morley:


Hi Marc,

I wrote some test

m =
\relative c' {
   c1~ 1~ 2 s2
   \bar "||"
   c1~ 1~ 1
   \bar "||"
   c2~ 2~ 2~ 2~ 2~ 2
   \bar "||"
}

\transpose c c  \m
\transpose c d  \m
\transpose c e  \m
\transpose c f  \m
\transpose c g  \m
\transpose c a  \m
\transpose c b  \m
\transpose c c' \m
\transpose c d' \m
\transpose c e' \m
\transpose c f' \m
\transpose c g' \m


If you compile this with

\paper {
  indent = 0
  ragged-right = ##f
}

then the ties are drawn more evenly. It's interesting to see the changes 
when you comment out the indent line or ragged-right or both.


It looks as if lilypond needs some "space" to draw correct ties.

With ragged-right = ##t and c1~ 1~ 2 s2
you see the difference,
ragged-right = ##f and c1~ 1~ 2 s2 looks good (concerning ties).

Best regards,

Marc

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Re: stacking whole notes of different size

[Stephen MacNeil]

>Yup, creating a new Voice and applying force-hshift works, but the last
>tie looks quite different than the other ones:

Yup it does look different. Using \override Tie.Y-offset = #.3 fixes it a
bit but still ugly.

\shape #'((-0.5 . 0.5) (0 . 0.5) (0.5 . 0.3) (0.5 . 0.5)) Tie

looks better I think.

\version "2.18.2"


\relative c'' {

a2. fis4 | a1 |

<<

{ g1 | fis | e | d~ | d1~ | d1~ |

% if you want the notes joined

2 }

\new Voice \with { fontSize = #-3 } {

\override NoteColumn.force-hshift = #0.35

b'1 | bes! | cis | d~ | d1~ |

%looks ok ...

% \override Tie.Y-offset = #.3

% looks better

\shape #'((-0.5 . 0.5) (0 . 0.5) (0.5 . 0.3) (0.5 . 0.5)) Tie

d1~ |

% only if you want the notes together

\hideNotes d2

}

>>

}



> a2. fis4 | a1 |
   > <<
   >   { \voiceTwo g1 | fis | e | d~ | 1~ | 1~ | 2  }
   >  \new Voice \with { fontSize = #-3 } {
   >  \override NoteColumn.force-hshift = #0.15
   >  \voiceOne b'1 | h! | cis | d~ | 1~ | 1~ | 2
   > }
> >>

> see attached picture.

>Marc

Stephen

On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 1:21 AM, Marc Hohl  wrote:

> Am 31.08.2015 um 19:09 schrieb Stephen MacNeil:
>
>> \override NoteColumn.force-hshift = #.65 works but you would have to
>> create a new voice i believe.
>>
>
> Yup, creating a new Voice and applying force-hshift works, but the last
> tie looks quite different than the other ones:
>
> a2. fis4 | a1 |
>   <<
>  { \voiceTwo g1 | fis | e | d~ | 1~ | 1~ | 2  }
>  \new Voice \with { fontSize = #-3 } {
>   \override NoteColumn.force-hshift = #0.15
>   \voiceOne b'1 | h! | cis | d~ | 1~ | 1~ | 2
>  }
>   >>
>
> see attached picture.
>
> Marc
>
>>
>>
>> Stephen
>>
>>
>
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Re: stacking whole notes of different size

[Stephen MacNeil]

wow Harm that looks really nice.

Stephen
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Re: stacking whole notes of different size

[Thomas Morley]

2015-09-01 7:21 GMT+02:00 Marc Hohl :
> Am 31.08.2015 um 19:09 schrieb Stephen MacNeil:
>>
>> \override NoteColumn.force-hshift = #.65 works but you would have to
>> create a new voice i believe.
>
>
> Yup, creating a new Voice and applying force-hshift works, but the last
> tie looks quite different than the other ones:
>
> a2. fis4 | a1 |
>   <<
>  { \voiceTwo g1 | fis | e | d~ | 1~ | 1~ | 2  }
>  \new Voice \with { fontSize = #-3 } {
>   \override NoteColumn.force-hshift = #0.15
>   \voiceOne b'1 | h! | cis | d~ | 1~ | 1~ | 2
>  }
>   >>
>
> see attached picture.
>
> Marc
>>
>>
>>
>> Stephen
>>
>
>
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>

Hi Marc,

I wrote some test

m =
\relative c' {
  c1~ 1~ 2 s2
  \bar "||"
  c1~ 1~ 1
  \bar "||"
  c2~ 2~ 2~ 2~ 2~ 2
  \bar "||"
}

\transpose c c  \m
\transpose c d  \m
\transpose c e  \m
\transpose c f  \m
\transpose c g  \m
\transpose c a  \m
\transpose c b  \m
\transpose c c' \m
\transpose c d' \m
\transpose c e' \m
\transpose c f' \m
\transpose c g' \m

looks like the Ties are different only, if a whole note and one of a
different value are involved _and_ if they are on a staff-line.
With \voiceOne/Two Ties at the bottom and top-lines are affected as well.
The test-code above does not contain this, you may want to play around
with voiceXxx, though.
png attached.

I've found the `intra-space-threshold' form `Tie.details' can be
tweaked to improve the situation:


\version "2.19.25"

#(define (tie-tweak intra-space-threshold-value)
"
 Set @code{intra-space-threshold} of @code{tie}'s @code{details}-property to
 @var{intra-space-threshold-value}.
 Apply it only if the tied note is on a line.
 Limitation: works for default five-line-staff only.
"
  (lambda (grob)
(let* ((right-bound (ly:spanner-bound grob RIGHT))
   (staff-pos (ly:grob-property right-bound 'staff-position)))
;; apply it only if the right-bound is on a line!!
(if (member staff-pos '(-4 -2 0 2 4)) ;; works only for default-staff-symbol
(begin
  ;; for testing, set color:
  ;(ly:grob-set-property! right-bound 'color red)
  (ly:grob-set-nested-property! grob
'(details intra-space-threshold)
intra-space-threshold-value))) ;; default 1.25
)))


%% TEST-EXAMPLES


m =
\relative c' {
  c1~ 1~ 2 s2
  \bar "||"
  c1~ 1~ 1
  \bar "||"
  c2~ 2~ 2~ 2~ 2~ 2
  \bar "||"
}

\layout { \override Tie.after-line-breaking = #(tie-tweak 0.25) }

\transpose c c  \m
\transpose c d  \m
\transpose c e  \m
\transpose c f  \m
\transpose c g  \m
\transpose c a  \m
\transpose c b  \m
\transpose c c' \m
\transpose c d' \m
\transpose c e' \m
\transpose c f' \m
\transpose c g' \m


%% Your EXAMPLE


\relative c'' {
  a2. fis4 | a1 |
  <<
 { \voiceTwo g1 | fis | e | d~ | 1~ | 1~ | 2  }
 \new Voice
 \with {
   fontSize = #-3
   \override Tie.after-line-breaking = #(tie-tweak 10.25)
 }
 {
  \override NoteColumn.force-hshift = #0.15
  \voiceOne bes'1 | b! | cis | d~ | 1~ | 1~ | 2
 }
  >>
}



I hope it helps a bit, although I've found no convincing general value.
png with your example is attached as well.


Cheers,
 Harm
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Re: stacking whole notes of different size

[Marc Hohl]

Am 31.08.2015 um 15:41 schrieb Simon Albrecht:

Hello Marc,

this is a known issue: see
.


Ok, so I managed to shift the upper note heads by using extra-offset:

< g \tweak font-size #-3 \tweak Accidental.font-size #-3 \tweak 
extra-offset #'(-0.25 . 0) b > |
< fis \tweak font-size #-3 \tweak Accidental.font-size #-3 \tweak 
extra-offset #'(-0.25 . 0) h! > |

< e \tweak font-size #-3 \tweak extra-offset #'(-0.25 . 0) cis' > |
< d \tweak font-size #-3 \tweak extra-offset #'(-0.25 . 0) d' >~) | 
1~ | 1~ | < d \tweak font-size #-3 d' >2


One problem remains: the upper ties are drawn as if the notes weren't 
shifted. How can I access the upper ties for reformatting? Is there a 
way to apply the shift amount to all control points simultaneously?


(I tried shifting the smaller notes by \tweak X-offset #-0.25 first, but 
that does not seem to have any effect.)


TIA,

Marc



Yours, Simon

Am 31.08.2015 um 14:15 schrieb Marc Hohl:

Hello list,

I have songs for single voice and wanted to include an optional higher
voice for those singers that are able to each the notes and are capable
of doing a second voice.

Since the doubled part is just at the end of a song, I did not want to
fiddle with a separate voice and wrote chords instead like this:

< e \tweak font-size #-3 g >

Now I have a question about the alignment of the note heads. In the
cases where a visible stem is present, the note heads are aligned to the
stem, which is ok.

When I stack whole notes, the note heads are also right aligned, which
looks kind of strange, see the attached picture.

I did not find any suitable example in Gould, so I wanted to ask here:
is the graphical output ok, or should the smaller notes be centered over
the main voice? If yes, is there a automatic way to do this, or do I
have to \tweak the note head position manually by some trial-and-error?

Thanks in advance,

Marc


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Re: stacking whole notes of different size

[Simon Albrecht]

Am 31.08.2015 um 18:22 schrieb Marc Hohl:

Am 31.08.2015 um 15:41 schrieb Simon Albrecht:

Hello Marc,

this is a known issue: see
.


Ok, so I managed to shift the upper note heads by using extra-offset:

< g \tweak font-size #-3 \tweak Accidental.font-size #-3 \tweak 
extra-offset #'(-0.25 . 0) b > |
< fis \tweak font-size #-3 \tweak Accidental.font-size #-3 \tweak 
extra-offset #'(-0.25 . 0) h! > |

< e \tweak font-size #-3 \tweak extra-offset #'(-0.25 . 0) cis' > |
< d \tweak font-size #-3 \tweak extra-offset #'(-0.25 . 0) d' >~) 
| 1~ | 1~ | < d \tweak font-size #-3 d' >2


One problem remains: the upper ties are drawn as if the notes weren't 
shifted. How can I access the upper ties for reformatting? Is there a 
way to apply the shift amount to all control points simultaneously?
You could try the \shiftII function from openlilylib – or, if you use 
extra-offset anyway, apply that to the ties also.




(I tried shifting the smaller notes by \tweak X-offset #-0.25 first, 
but that does not seem to have any effect.)

Yes, because NoteColumn interferes.

Yours, Simon

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Re: stacking whole notes of different size

[Stephen MacNeil]

\override NoteColumn.force-hshift = #.65 works but you would have to create
a new voice i believe.


Stephen
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Re: stacking whole notes of different size

[Marc Hohl]

Am 31.08.2015 um 19:09 schrieb Stephen MacNeil:

\override NoteColumn.force-hshift = #.65 works but you would have to
create a new voice i believe.


Yup, creating a new Voice and applying force-hshift works, but the last
tie looks quite different than the other ones:

a2. fis4 | a1 |
  <<
 { \voiceTwo g1 | fis | e | d~ | 1~ | 1~ | 2  }
 \new Voice \with { fontSize = #-3 } {
  \override NoteColumn.force-hshift = #0.15
  \voiceOne b'1 | h! | cis | d~ | 1~ | 1~ | 2
 }
  >>

see attached picture.

Marc



Stephen



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Re: stacking whole notes of different size

[Marc Hohl]

Am 31.08.2015 um 18:50 schrieb Simon Albrecht:

Am 31.08.2015 um 18:22 schrieb Marc Hohl:

Am 31.08.2015 um 15:41 schrieb Simon Albrecht:

Hello Marc,

this is a known issue: see
.


Ok, so I managed to shift the upper note heads by using extra-offset:

[...]

One problem remains: the upper ties are drawn as if the notes weren't
shifted. How can I access the upper ties for reformatting? Is there a
way to apply the shift amount to all control points simultaneously?

You could try the \shiftII function from openlilylib – or, if you use
extra-offset anyway, apply that to the ties also.


But how can I apply extra-offset to the upper ties only? I see no 
straightforward way to do this ...







(I tried shifting the smaller notes by \tweak X-offset #-0.25 first,
but that does not seem to have any effect.)

Yes, because NoteColumn interferes.


I see.

Cheers,

Marc


Yours, Simon




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stacking whole notes of different size

[Marc Hohl]

Hello list,

I have songs for single voice and wanted to include an optional higher
voice for those singers that are able to each the notes and are capable
of doing a second voice.

Since the doubled part is just at the end of a song, I did not want to
fiddle with a separate voice and wrote chords instead like this:

< e \tweak font-size #-3 g >

Now I have a question about the alignment of the note heads. In the
cases where a visible stem is present, the note heads are aligned to the
stem, which is ok.

When I stack whole notes, the note heads are also right aligned, which 
looks kind of strange, see the attached picture.


I did not find any suitable example in Gould, so I wanted to ask here:
is the graphical output ok, or should the smaller notes be centered over
the main voice? If yes, is there a automatic way to do this, or do I
have to \tweak the note head position manually by some trial-and-error?

Thanks in advance,

Marc
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Re: stacking whole notes of different size

[Simon Albrecht]

Hello Marc,

this is a known issue: see 
.


Yours, Simon

Am 31.08.2015 um 14:15 schrieb Marc Hohl:

Hello list,

I have songs for single voice and wanted to include an optional higher
voice for those singers that are able to each the notes and are capable
of doing a second voice.

Since the doubled part is just at the end of a song, I did not want to
fiddle with a separate voice and wrote chords instead like this:

< e \tweak font-size #-3 g >

Now I have a question about the alignment of the note heads. In the
cases where a visible stem is present, the note heads are aligned to the
stem, which is ok.

When I stack whole notes, the note heads are also right aligned, which 
looks kind of strange, see the attached picture.


I did not find any suitable example in Gould, so I wanted to ask here:
is the graphical output ok, or should the smaller notes be centered over
the main voice? If yes, is there a automatic way to do this, or do I
have to \tweak the note head position manually by some trial-and-error?

Thanks in advance,

Marc


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Re: stacking whole notes of different size

[Marc Hohl]

Hello Simon,

Am 31.08.2015 um 15:41 schrieb Simon Albrecht:

Hello Marc,

this is a known issue: see
.


Ah, thanks – I wasn't aware of that being in the issues list already.
So I have to tweak the note head position manually.

Cheers,

Marc



Yours, Simon

Am 31.08.2015 um 14:15 schrieb Marc Hohl:

Hello list,

I have songs for single voice and wanted to include an optional higher
voice for those singers that are able to each the notes and are capable
of doing a second voice.

Since the doubled part is just at the end of a song, I did not want to
fiddle with a separate voice and wrote chords instead like this:

< e \tweak font-size #-3 g >

Now I have a question about the alignment of the note heads. In the
cases where a visible stem is present, the note heads are aligned to the
stem, which is ok.

When I stack whole notes, the note heads are also right aligned, which
looks kind of strange, see the attached picture.

I did not find any suitable example in Gould, so I wanted to ask here:
is the graphical output ok, or should the smaller notes be centered over
the main voice? If yes, is there a automatic way to do this, or do I
have to \tweak the note head position manually by some trial-and-error?

Thanks in advance,

Marc


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