Re: [linux] OCLUG meeting Thursday June 1st 2023

[Tug Williams]

presentation and chat tips uploaded

https://wiki.linux-ottawa.org/doku.php?id=meetingpresentations2023

On 29/05/2023 11:28, Tug Williams wrote:

When: 7pm Thursday June 1st 2023
Where: https://meet.jit.si/oclug_2023-06-01

Check the mailing list for individuals hosting in-person clusters.

Request for volunteers to give talks, short or long, for future 
meetings: If you have a Linux related presentation or demo you'd be 
comfortable sharing with the group, or a discussion topic you wish to 
introduce, then please let us know.


Topics

1. Short presentation, and feedback request from Tug Williams "What 
can go wrong? Linux and the bs wifi driver" - Installing Linux on a 
2013 HP Pavilion x2 and discovering unreliable RTL8723BS driver.


2. Regular lightning / open mic spot. We want to encourage everyone to 
bring up a tip or discussion topic, so we will have a regular spot 
(though last month was fully consumed by a very interesting discussion 
on the Wacom One)




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Fwd: [linux] OCLUG meeting Thursday June 1st 2023

[Tug Williams]

I did send a meeting notice out. I didn't update the website... I will 
do so this afternoon. I didn't realise anyone looked..


Did you not get this email?

Tug

 Forwarded Message 
Subject:[linux] OCLUG meeting Thursday June 1st 2023
Date:   Mon, 29 May 2023 11:28:11 -0400
From:   Tug Williams 
To: linux@linux-ottawa.org 



When: 7pm Thursday June 1st 2023
Where: https://meet.jit.si/oclug_2023-06-01

Check the mailing list for individuals hosting in-person clusters.

Request for volunteers to give talks, short or long, for future 
meetings: If you have a Linux related presentation or demo you'd be 
comfortable sharing with the group, or a discussion topic you wish to 
introduce, then please let us know.


Topics

1. Short presentation, and feedback request from Tug Williams "What can 
go wrong? Linux and the bs wifi driver" - Installing Linux on a 2013 HP 
Pavilion x2 and discovering unreliable RTL8723BS driver.


2. Regular lightning / open mic spot. We want to encourage everyone to 
bring up a tip or discussion topic, so we will have a regular spot 
(though last month was fully consumed by a very interesting discussion 
on the Wacom One)




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[linux] OCLUG meeting Thursday June 1st 2023

[Tug Williams]

When: 7pm Thursday June 1st 2023
Where: https://meet.jit.si/oclug_2023-06-01

Check the mailing list for individuals hosting in-person clusters.

Request for volunteers to give talks, short or long, for future 
meetings: If you have a Linux related presentation or demo you'd be 
comfortable sharing with the group, or a discussion topic you wish to 
introduce, then please let us know.


Topics

1. Short presentation, and feedback request from Tug Williams "What can 
go wrong? Linux and the bs wifi driver" - Installing Linux on a 2013 HP 
Pavilion x2 and discovering unreliable RTL8723BS driver.


2. Regular lightning / open mic spot. We want to encourage everyone to 
bring up a tip or discussion topic, so we will have a regular spot 
(though last month was fully consumed by a very interesting discussion 
on the Wacom One)




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[linux] OCLUG meeting Thursday May 4th 2023

[Tug Williams]

When: 7pm Thursday May 4th 2023
Where: https://meet.jit.si/oclug_2023-05-04

Check the mailing list for individuals hosting in-person clusters.

Request for volunteers to give talks, short or long, for future meetings 
- If you have a Linux related presentation or demo you'd be comfortable 
sharing with the group, or a discussion topic you wish to introduce, 
then please let us know.


The OCLUG legal not-for-profit corporation no longer exists... Long live 
OCLUG!


Topics

1. Talk from Katie McMillan: "The Princess and the Wacom One" (this is 
the talk postponed from last month, due to the ice storm taking Katie 
and her Wacom off-grid)


2. (new) Regular lightning / open mic spot. We want to encourage 
everyone to bring up a tip or discussion topic, so we will have a 
regular spot.


3. Discussion on collaboration with NCF
    1. Who are they, why we donated the corporation's resources to them?
    2. Zimbra ("the leader in open source messaging and collaboration") 
is becoming closed source...
    3. What we can give, what we can get from NCF? eg they use 
deprecated ftp, not ssh


4. Discussion about OCLUG going forward
    1. Meetings
        1. How to evolve our monthly meetings and online presence, both 
of which continue since dissolution.
    2. Create an environment where more people feel free to chip in 
during meetings.

    2. Services
    1. OVH for 18 months, then what? A dude/dudess with a VM?
    2. Multiple offers for help. How and what do we do?
    3. wiki vs static pages? (presentation material, site no longer 
needed for corporation)

    4. mailing list
    3. Rules
    1. Replacement of "onerous by-laws" with some "collegial 
commitments".

    2. Replace "board" with something less formal sounding.



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[linux] Result of the OCLUG motion to dissolve

[Tug Williams]

The numbers were 15 for, 1 against.


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Re: [linux] OCLUG meeting Thursday April 6th 2023

[Tug Williams]

1) What are your reasons for wanting to maintain a Corporation?


2)What would the purpose of a Mastodon account? Would it replace the 
mailing list, or as an additional service that duplicates information on 
the mailing list? Everyone has email, not everyone has mastodon. Email 
has stood the test of time - however flawed.



Would all mastodon posts need to be approved by the board? I doubt this 
group has "one voice" we would all agree on.




On 03/04/2023 10:37, Katherine Mcmillan wrote:

Hello all,

I realize that if I'm going to push for keeping the OCUUG alive, I'm 
going to have to work on a strategy for this.


Between Tug, John, Diane, Jean-Francois, Richard, (sorry, I'm not sure 
who all is currently on the Board for the OLUG), Scott, and me, we 
should have enough people for a full non-profit Board where 
administrative tasks could be doled out in a reasonable way. It sounds 
like Alayne could be a good fit for this as well.


I'd be willing to reach out to another *BSD contact of mine in Ottawa 
who might be open to helping as well.  Please bear in mind that 
although it's a family of systems, as we all know, when you say that 
something is "Linux focussed" there are a whole bunch of great people 
that simply won't participate. There are people in the *BSD community, 
for example, that wear "I Love SystemD" tshirts as a sarcastic joke, 
and the other developers laugh.  However, in my experience, when you 
state that something is "Unix focussed" it doesn't make a whole bunch 
of Linux devs/users get up and leave, or wear sarcastic clothing 
(although sarcastic clothing may be worn for other reasons).


I'm willing to promote the group at the local Universities, at 
relevant conferences (ex. BSDCan), and in other appropriate circles.  
I think we should consider making a Mastodon account for the group on 
here: https://mstdn.ca/home.  I am willing to take that on.


I think that we should keep an eye on who fills this: 
https://bb.wd3.myworkdayjobs.com/en-US/BlackBerry/job/Ottawa-Ontario/Open-Source-Analyst_20211653?source=indeed. 
Keeping in mind that Blackberry is heavily involved in QNX 
development, and are actively trying to liaise with open source 
communities.

Although, looking at the stats, I'm not sure:




For the record, I am not an applicant for this.

Is anyone on the Illumos mailing lists?

Sincerely,
Katie

*From:* Scott Murphy
*Sent:* Friday, March 31, 2023 17:06
*To:* Katherine Mcmillan
*Cc:* Linux-Ottawa
*Subject:* Re: [linux] OCLUG meeting Thursday April 6th 2023

OCUUG (later Ocbug) was mostly social with occasional technical 
content. I think it started as a technical group and eventually became 
more social, at least that is my memory of it. I was not part of the 
early years.


The old website is still up, sporting my mock license plate: 
http://ocuug.on.ca


I may still have access to modify things, but it was a very long time 
ago and might take me a while to locate the credentials.


Cheers,
Scott
--
Scott Murphy
scott.mur...@arrow-eye.com

On Mar 31, 2023, at 15:30, Katherine Mcmillan  
wrote:


Illumos would be a great one to include too.

-Katie

*From:* Katherine Mcmillan 
*Sent:* 31 March 2023 15:18
*To:* Richard Guy Briggs 
*Cc:* Tug Williams ; Linux-Ottawa 


*Subject:* Re: [linux] OCLUG meeting Thursday April 6th 2023
"OCUNIX"! That's awesome Richard - it wasn't successful? When did it 
stop existing?


Doesn't the OCBUG have the same problem as the OCLUG right now?  
Don't get me wrong, I would go out to a Royal Oak and chat with 
Scott, Ian and others anytime, but it isn't really a formal group.


Sincerely,
Katie

*From:* Richard Guy Briggs 
*Sent:* 31 March 2023 14:20
*To:* Katherine Mcmillan 
*Cc:* Tug Williams ; Linux-Ottawa 


*Subject:* Re: [linux] OCLUG meeting Thursday April 6th 2023
Attention : courriel externe | external email

On 2023-03-31 17:25, Katherine Mcmillan wrote:
> Hi Tug,
>
> Just out of curiousity, has there ever been any discussion about 
forming an "Ottawa Unix User Group"? (although "OUUG" sounds 
terrible, and it can't be "CUUG" because that's already taken - I 
suppose it could be "NCRUUG" or just "CRUUG").  I ask for several 
reasons:


OCUNIX used to exist, so did OCUUG. They effectively became OCBUG.

>   1.  I'm currently on the Board of Directors for EuroBSDCon (a 
*BSD focussed international conference).

>   2.  BSDCan<https://www.bsdcan.org/2023/> is coming up in Ottawa!
>   3.  I recently attended a Calgary Unix User Group (CUUG) meeting 
(thanks all for including me if any of you are on this list!)  Theo 
de Raadt was speaking, and that was really fantastic to witness.  It 
seemed lik

Re: Dissolving OCLUG was Re: [linux] OCLUG meeting Thursday April 6th 2023

[Tug Williams]

Hi Alayne,

Yes, you are on the list of registered voters who supplied their legal 
name and email address before the deadline. We are taking on trust that 
all legal names supplied correspond to the users of the email accounts.


Note the following rule: "85. Error or Omission in Giving Notice. No 
error or omission in giving notice of any Annual or General meeting or 
any adjourned meeting of the members shall invalidate any resolution 
passed or any proceedings taken at that meeting"


My working assumption - without your legal talent, so please advise if I 
have misinterpreted this - is that this means we can proceed with the 
meeting and vote on Thursday 6th April 2023 as planned.


I am also interested in whether you interpret "shall" to be epistemic in 
the first person, and deontic in the second and third person, and how 
that affects your interpretation of the by-laws?


The topic of dissolution has been aired at the past few club meetings, 
but I would be willing to propose to the board that we push out the 
deadline for the vote, if this would help resolve your problems.


Thank you for your invaluable contributions.


On 02/04/2023 17:41, ala...@twobikes.ottawa.on.ca wrote:
If ANYTHING should be done correctly at OCLUG, surely it should be 
dissolving the corporation.


OCLUG BY_LAW No. 1 requires two weeks notice MINIMUM to members of a 
general

meeting which business such as dissolution can be voted on.:

 81. Notice Interval. Notice of the time and place for holding an 
Annual Meeting
or a General Meeting shall be given by sending it to each member and 
to the
auditor fourteen days or more before the date of the meeting. (s. 93 
(1) (a)),

(s. 93 (2)), (s. 129 (1) (i))

In addition, for a special resolution like this, you need to notify 
members - in that notice of meeting - that this resolution will be 
voted on at that meeting.


On Fri, 31 Mar 2023, Tug Williams wrote:

The motion is as follows:

We, the members of the "Ottawa Carleton Linux Users Group" Ontario 
Corporation
number 1476767 are in favour of dissolution of that corporation and 
transfer

of
residual money to the National Capital Freenet.

Procedure:

All members who have responded to the request to provide their legal 
name
before March 27, 2023, are eligible to vote. A ballot will be sent by 
email

from
secret...@linux-ottawa.org to each such person on or before April 6. 
Voting
will close at 11:59pm on April 6th EDT. You may vote before the April 
6th meeting, or wait

for the discussions at that meeting.


Well, I sent in my name on January 23, so I hope I'm counted.

But I think it's highly inappropriate *not* to have sent a reminder a 
week before March 27, so that anyone who missed the email in January 
might be reminded.


I think at a minimum you need to postpone this discussion until after 
April 14, and give people until the end of this week to send in their 
legal names.


Alayne

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[linux] OCLUG meeting Thursday April 6th 2023

[Tug Williams]

When: 7pm Thursday April 6th 2023
Where: https://meet.jit.si/oclug_2023-04-06

Check the mailing list for individuals hosting in-person clusters.

Request for volunteers to give talks, short or long, for future meetings 
- If you have a Linux related presentation or demo you'd be comfortable 
sharing with the group, or a discussion topic you wish to introduce, 
then please let us know.


We have a couple of talks, and a proposed change that needs airing and 
discussing...


_*Topics*_

1) Discussion of the boards proposal to dissolve the OCLUG corporation 
(not the club, just the not-for-profit corporation the board believes 
has outlived is benefit)

2) talk from Katie McMillan: "The Princess and the Wacom One"
3) talk from John Nash: "M1 Macintosh and floating point"

_*Proposal to dissolve corporation*_

Linux-Ottawa members are asked to vote as per instructions below on the 
dissolution of the Ontario not-for-profit corporation "Ottawa Carleton 
Linux Users Group" Ontario Corporation number 1476767.


In that we have not organized events requiring the structure and 
resources of a corporation for some years, the motivations for having a 
corporation no longer apply.


This vote does NOT imply that Linux-Ottawa will not continue. We intend, 
with member support, to continue the electronic mailing list and regular 
virtual and hybrid meetings. However, we have not had anyone step 
forward willing to take on Board responsibilities, and the current Board 
is not in a position to carry out the legally required administrative 
operations. A requirement of dissolution is to transfer resources to an 
organization with similar goals. The National Capital Freenet has 
indicated their willingness to accept a donation. Moreover, they use and 
promote open-source software and have suggested that they would use some 
of the monies to increase such activity. Note that we could assist in 
such work, as some of us are already NCF members and supporters.


Assuming the vote is positive, an agent will be engaged to handle the 
technical details. One such agency has indicated willingness, with a fee 
under $400.


Note that there is no Plan B unless some members step up with a viable 
plan that can get majority member approval in a recorded vote.


The motion is as follows:

We, the members of the "Ottawa Carleton Linux Users Group" Ontario 
Corporation number 1476767 are in favour of dissolution of that 
corporation and transfer of residual money to the National Capital Freenet.


Procedure:

All members who have responded to the request to provide their legal 
name before March 27, 2023, are eligible to vote. A ballot will be sent 
by email from secret...@linux-ottawa.org to each such person on or 
before April 6. Voting will close at 11:59pm on April 6th EDT. You may 
vote before the April 6th meeting, or wait for the discussions at that 
meeting.

Re: [linux] Presentation file for tonight

[Tug Williams]

It has already been uploaded to the wiki.

https://wiki.linux-ottawa.org/doku.php?id=meetingpresentations2023

On 02/03/2023 14:42, James wrote:

Can you upload it somewhere else?
I use mediafire.
I can put it on mine if you want to email it to me.

Mar. 2, 2023 10:57:21 Jean-Francois Messier :


I want to send this file (http or otherwise) so that it can be copied to the 
linux-ottawa.org web site. Can someone tell me how to proceed ? I just don't 
want to overload everyone by sending it to the list.

Thanks :-)


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[linux] OCLUG meeting Thursday March 2nd 2023

[Tug Williams]

When: 7pm Thursday March 2nd 2023
Where: https://meet.jit.si/oclug_2023-03-02_reMarkable

Check the mailing list for individuals hosting in person clusters.

This month Jean-Francois gives a presentation on reMarkable2 on linux, 
the (alleged) "next-generation paper tablet"


The standard request for volunteers to give talks, short or long, for 
future meetings - If you have a presentation or demo you'd be 
comfortable sharing with the group, or a discussion topic you wish to 
introduce, then please let us know.


In addition to Jean-Francois's presentation, if time allows, I will 
continue the partially covered discussion topic about security.


I had prepared a brief introduction to my questions, with a view to 
steering this discussion last month, but decided to let it evolve 
naturally. I will attempt a more focussed approach this month, and the 
group can decide which approach is preferred.


Privacy, Secrecy, Security, and Accessibility
- Privacy - initiated by a couple of emails about this club's privacy rules.
- Privacy vs Secrecy - something we do, but don't talk about, vs 
something we don't want people to know we do.

- Privacy vs Security - moral intent vs technical competence
- Security vs Accessibility - PGP on your phone, medical records on the 
internet.


Also, in response to suggestions for an fixed meeting link, the (perhaps 
invalid) historical reason for this is to reduce the risk of unwanted 
intrusion in our online meetings. This point also belongs to this 
discussion on security.


See you on Thursday

Tug


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[linux] OCLUG meeting this week - Thursday Feb 2nd 2023

[Tug Williams]

Good morning everyone,

When: 7pm Thursday Feb 2nd 2023
Where: https://meet.jit.si/oclug_2023-02-02_Wiz2MQTT_and_other_topics

This month we have an introduction to Dmitriy's new open source project 
Wiz2MQTT, which he offered to talk about at very short notice, so thank you!


I keep meaning to ask for volunteers to give talks, short or long, but 
usually remember a week before a meeting, so now I'm putting out a 
request for future meetings. If you have a presentation or demo you'd be 
comfortable sharing with the club, or a discussion topic you wish 
introduce, then please let us know.


In addition to Dmitriy's presentation, if time allows, I have a couple 
of discussion topics, which I've not prepared enough for a talk.


Topics to mull over, and I look forward to others knowing more about 
than I do!


_*Privacy, Secrecy, Security, and Accessibility*_
- Privacy - initiated by a couple of emails about this club's privacy rules.
- Privacy vs Secrecy - something we do, but don't talk about, vs 
something we don't want people to know we do.

- Privacy vs Security - moral intent vs technical competence
- Security vs Accessibility - PGP on your phone, medical records on the 
internet.


_*ChatGPT*_
If ChatGPT can pass exams for MBAs (says more about MBAs or ChatGPT?), 
then what are the implications for /publicly available knowledge/ based 
work sectors?

    - Lawyers, where arcane inflexible wording is required.
    - Open Source software, if you can just ask "Hey ChatGPT, write me 
closed source code to replace libsomething".
    - Family doctors, where symptoms lead to tests, which lead to 
diagnosis, which lead to treatment options.


Until Thursday

Tug

Re: [linux] Housekeeping (privacy policy)

[Tug Williams]

As this was also cced to the public list, I will address it publicly.

On 23/01/2023 19:33, Ian wrote:



P.S.  I too could not find the privacy policy or the (reasonable) 
requirement to provide legal names for the purpose of being added to 
the voting list in the online bylaws.  And I have seen no reply email 
addressing the missing privacy policy.  It wouldn't need to be fancy, 
but it sounds like a good idea to have one.


https://wiki.linux-ottawa.org/doku.php?id=bylaws

(and yes, I noticed that the certificate expired today)

Regarding the privacy policy. There was only one expression of interest 
relating to the privacy policy, from an ex board member who knows the 
policy as well as I do. I assumed everyone else was comfortable.


 If someone wants to propose a formal privacy policy, then please do.

Tug




On 2022-12-19 11:21, Brett Delmage wrote:

On Mon, 19 Dec 2022, Secretary wrote:

please reply to this email (sent from secret...@linux-ottawa.org) 
stating your legal name, so we can fulfil this corporate obligation.


What is OCLUG's privacy policy?

I do not see it online anywhere.


OCLUG board

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Re: [linux] SPF hard pass for Ian

[Tug Williams]

Ian,

The secretary account gets forwarded to both John and me, but it also 
sits in the secretary account on the server. I have noticed that a few 
messages that arrive in the secretary account don't make it on to my 
gmail account. The vast majority do arrive. That said, I process them 
from the secretary account on the server anyway, so this is not causing 
a material problem, beyond the annoyance and anxiety it creates.


It is also surprising (to me, who is not an email expert) that the alias 
is leaking the forward addresses...


Your email was received by the secretary account, and you have been 
added to the list.


Tug

On 23/01/2023 19:50, Ian wrote:

Hi All,

Does anyone at OCLUG get my emails?  Or is it just Tug that has a 
gmail account and is the only one not to get them (which would be bad 
because he's the secretary and he's the one I sent my legal name to.)


What did my ISP (teksavvy.com) ever do to Google??  Or maybe it was 
one bad actor signed up with teksavvy that spoiled it for the rest of us.


Cheers, Ian M.

=

This is the mail system at host mail.linux-ottawa.org.

I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not
be delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached below.

For further assistance, please send mail to postmaster.

If you do so, please include this problem report. You can
delete your own text from the attached returned message.

   The mail system

  (expanded from): 
host
    gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com[142.250.149.26] said: 550-5.7.26 The 
MAIL FROM
    domain [teksavvy.com] has an SPF record with a hard 550-5.7.26 
fail policy

    (-all) but it fails to pass SPF checks with the ip: 550-5.7.26
    [142.44.247.35]. To best protect our users from spam and phishing,
    550-5.7.26 the message has been blocked. Please visit 550-5.7.26
    https://support.google.com/mail/answer/81126#authentication for 
more 550
    5.7.26 information. 
l184-20020a4a7bc100b0050d96627f7fsi554664ooc.5 -

    gsmtp (in reply to end of DATA command)

=


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[linux] Meeting Thursday 5th January 2023, 7pm

[Tug Williams]

*Date/Time: *Thursday January 5th 2023 at 7pm

*Format:*
1. Online over Jitsi https://meet.jit.si/oclug-2023-01-05-opensource
2. Check mailing list for in-person clusters being hosted by members.

*Program:*John Nash, discusses experience of using Open Source, followed 
by a general discussion about benefits, and problems of open source.


Note: If there are any problems with the link, check this mailing list 
or https://wiki.linux-ottawa.org/doku.php on the day of the meeting.

[linux] Linux-Ottawa - December 1st Meeting

[Tug Williams]

*Date/Time: *Thursday December 1st 2022 at 7pm

*Format:*
1. Online over Jitsi https://meet.jit.si/oclug-2022-12-01-gentoo
2. Check mailing list for in-person clusters being hosted by members.

*Program:*Tug Williams - The Joy of Gentoo. Introduction into why to 
like Gentoo Linux, followed by general discussion about different 
approaches for distros.


Note: If there are any problems with the link, check this mailing list 
or https://wiki.linux-ottawa.org/doku.php on the day of the meeting.

Re: Fwd: Fwd: [linux] I don't have a mobile device. / querying email working

[Tug Williams]

I assumed "don't show your own message" is a deliberate feature, are 
there objections to this?


Like you, I created a second account to see if my messages arrive, and 
they do. Which seems to defeat the point of the feature.


Both your messages came through.

Tug

On 06/11/2022 08:51, nashjc-ncf wrote:


I sent this a while ago and other msgs have shown up.

We've had some email woes with the list, so this is checking if things 
are working
by sending from different email in case it is "sender doesn't see own 
msgs".


JN


 Forwarded Message 
Subject: Re: [linux] I don't have a mobile device.
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2022 07:48:52 -0500
From: J C Nash 
To: Nicholas Savage , Rick Leir 
, Richard Guy Briggs 

CC: linux@linux-ottawa.org 

FWIW, I discovered that having an old Win7 "product key" (the bunch of 
5 character codes) allows a
"legal" (I won't pretend that is not a Microsoft promoted idea) Win10 
iso to be installed. I do it
as a VM to have Windows-only tools e.g., downloading books from public 
library since Adobe stopped
development of Adobe Digital Editions for Linux at V1.72, and 
libraries require more recent versions.


There is a way to get e-books converted to a Linux-readable format, 
but it is messy.


JN

On 2022-11-06 07:33, Nicholas Savage wrote:
I prepare taxes for myself and five or six other people every year (I 
was an accountant in a former life). I use StudioTax in a Windows VM 
to do it. I wish there was a better solution, but that's mostly on 
the CRA requiring their verification of software first.


As a sidenote, my work computer where I do both developer-related 
things and finance-related things is a Linux host with a Windows VM, 
and I find it works very well.


On Sun, Nov 6, 2022, at 07:03, Rick Leir wrote:

RGB, team:

While on the topic of uncommon equipment choices, ...

I do have a mobile device. But I don't have a working machine with
Microsoft's OS on it.

What do you run your tax preparation app on? Ufile and such only 
work on

Microsoft's OS. Run it in a VM?

Run Ufile / TurboTax in Wine?

Do it on a paper form?

Or the worst choice: at a web site?

cheers -- Rick

On 2022-11-02 08:31, Richard Guy Briggs wrote:

On 2022-11-02 06:35, Tug Williams wrote:

On 01/11/2022 22:06, Richard Guy Briggs wrote:

On 2022-11-01 16:29, Tug Williams wrote:
No-one has arranged a physical meeting, so the meeting will be 
on jitsi

only.

Ok, I'll propose to meet at the Royal Oak.  I'll suggest the
Wellington/Hinton location because there seem to be more people 
in the
west end.  (I can see a Royal Oak from my home office here, but 
I'm east

of parliament...)

That said, if anyone wishes to arrange a physical get together 
with others,
then they can do that, and join the rest of us on the jitsi 
meeting.

I won't have any mobile device with me.

RGB: Just to be unambiguous here. Are you saying
a) you're leaving your phone at home? or

I don't have a mobile device.

b) that when you booked the venue, you were unable to ascertain 
whether
there was a usable internet connection for connecting to a jitsi 
meeting? or

No idea.


c) you won't be joining the jitsi meeting? or
*I* can't join any online meeting because I don't have a mobile 
device.



d) something else I have not been able to imagine?
I am hoping others are also craving some in-person interaction and 
will

join me at this venue.  I'll aim for 18:30.  If they happen to have a
mobile device and can join the jitsi meeting, then we will join the 
rest

online.


Bottom line, should our assumption be that we cannot rely on your
contributing to a jitsi discussion about CentOS?
I will if someone else with a mobile device shows up and chooses to 
join

the jitsi discussion.

This follows the previous discussion ideas about alternating online 
and

in-person meetings.  I can't imagine that I'm the only one in this
position.  The dynamics are different in person, and I am seeking that
type of interaction because we haven't had that for 2.5 years.

Katie: Will you be joining the jitsi meeting to contribute your 
piece? This

is so I know how much needs doing to prepare back up topics, JIC.

Thanks

Tug


The link will follow, before Thursday's meeting.

Tug

On 01/11/2022 16:26, Dmitriy Korovkin wrote:

I would prefer virtual meeting. Much more convenient.
/Dmitriy

On Tue, 1 Nov, 2022 at 4:03 PM, Ian E. Gorman 
 wrote:

Will the Thursday??meeting be entirely on Jitsi?

On Tue, Nov 1, 2022 at 12:39 PM Katherine Mcmillan 


wrote:

 Hi Richard,

 I would love to hear about your thoughts/experiences on 
this!


 Sincerely,
 Katie

 


 *From:* Richard Guy Briggs 
 *Sent:* Tuesday, November 1, 2022 12:35:26 PM
 *To:* Tug Williams 
 *Cc:* Katherine Mcmillan ;
 linux@linux-ottawa.org ; 
Jean-Francois

 Messier 
 *Subject:* Re: [linux] Meeting tonight
 Atten

Re: [linux] Follow up on last night's Twitter / Mastodon talk

[Tug Williams]

On 04/11/2022 15:24, Richard Guy Briggs wrote:

Bitcoin or dollars are only valuable because enough people think they
are.  Gold does have other uses.


Bitcoin are valuable only because enough people think they are.

Dollars have value because millions of legal contracts require people to 
pay or receive them in lieu of goods or services, so their value is 
real, backed by the goods and services of our complex society. Dollars 
are an IOU from society. When was the last time you were able to barter 
a few lines of code for your weekly groceries?


Regarding gold, though it can be misplaced, it cannot be destroyed, at 
least not by you or me.


But I think we're drifting further and further away from Twitter / 
Mastodon here...



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Re: [linux] Follow up on last night's Twitter / Mastodon talk

[Tug Williams]

https://wiki.linux-ottawa.org/doku.php?id=meetingpresentations2022


or you can go straight to the mastodon's mouth... 
https://docs.joinmastodon.org/



I'd recommend the mastodon's mouth.


Tug


On 04/11/2022 11:26, Katherine Mcmillan wrote:

Hi Tug,

Thank you very much for your presentation and for this follow-up - I 
found it fascinating.  I am interested in finding ways to leverage 
Mastodon; I like the whole "fediverse" concept.  Would you be able to 
share the slide with me where you broke down "federated" vs. 
"distributed" vs. "centralized"?


If you have a couple of free minutes, I recommend checking out the 
song "Carmen" by Stromae.


I agree that charging for the "blue ticks" makes them totally pointless.

Do you think we should make a Mastodon for the OCLUG? Should we offer 
to make one for Twitter itself (does anyone here have a Twitter and 
can send Elon a message)?


Cheers,
Katie


--------
*From:* Tug Williams 
*Sent:* 04 November 2022 10:05
*To:* linux@linux-ottawa.org 
*Subject:* [linux] Follow up on last night's Twitter / Mastodon talk
Attention : courriel externe | external email

I heard an interesting item on the radio this morning, relating to the
pending firing of lots of Twitter staff. There was an interview with a
journalist (with a Twitter blue tick), who said she'd not be paying for
the blue tick, because if it can be purchased, then it loses it's
meaning of proving trustworthiness.

Tug


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[linux] Follow up on last night's Twitter / Mastodon talk

[Tug Williams]

I heard an interesting item on the radio this morning, relating to the 
pending firing of lots of Twitter staff. There was an interview with a 
journalist (with a Twitter blue tick), who said she'd not be paying for 
the blue tick, because if it can be purchased, then it loses it's 
meaning of proving trustworthiness.


Tug


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[linux] Big thanks to Scott for fixing the mailing list!

[Tug Williams]

One thing that I realised with this week's flurry of emails, is that my 
emails are getting through to the mailing list again.


I wanted to thank Scott (Murphy) for spending time to resolve whatever 
the problem was with the SPF records. It seems to have resolved the 
issue for me, at least.


If anyone is still receiving error messages about messages not being 
deliverable though the mailing list, please email directly, otherwise we 
will assume all is working correctly again.


Thanks again Scott maybe a talkette about it sometime?

Tug


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[linux] Meeting 7pm Thursday 3rd November

[Tug Williams]

I've updated the wiki with tonight's meeting agenda
    https://wiki.linux-ottawa.org/doku.php

And if clicking on the link it too much for you, the link to the jitsi 
meeting is

https://meet.jit.si/oclug-2022-11-03-random-assortment

See you tonight

Tug


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Re: [linux] Meeting Thursday night (edited to be factually correct)

[Tug Williams]

Yes there will, once it is clear what the topics will be... I have some 
(partially prepared) back up plans, to add to a CentOS discussion. Worst 
case, I can always share my Joy of Gentoo, which would fit into a 
"distro" theme...


If anyone else has a topic they'd like to talk about, then let me know, 
and I'll give you priority :)


I will clarify tomorrow, but there will be an online meeting, and 
hopefully RGB will be able to connect and join his remote friends.


Tug

On 02/11/2022 15:10, Ian wrote:

Hi all,

Ian MacWilliam here.  Here being Perth.  I really appreciate the 
ability to remotely join in without having to drive in and try to find 
parking, the building, the room, etc.  It's been a long time since any 
of my kids attended Ottawa U and much has changed, not to mention 
Ottawa construction (or the price of gas).


So, will the linux-ottawa.org website be updated with a meeting 
announcement and jitsi link?


Thanks,

Ian M.

P.S.  While you are not on your smart phone, I suggest reading 
something by Jaron Lanier.  He is very interesting. 
http://www.jaronlanier.com/




On 2022-11-02 14:43, Richard Guy Briggs wrote:

On 2022-11-02 18:39, Katherine Mcmillan wrote:

Hm..seems pretty smart to me.
Would be interested in your thoughts on the Pine64 project, but 
that's probably a conversation better had at a user group meeting.

I am aware of it.  I may be in the market around retirement when travel
is likely to become a more serious occupation.


-Katie

From: Richard Guy Briggs 
Sent: 02 November 2022 14:34
To: Katherine Mcmillan 
Cc: Linux-Ottawa 
Subject: Re: [linux] Meeting Thursday night (edited to be factually 
correct)


Attention : courriel externe | external email

On 2022-11-02 17:37, Katherine Mcmillan wrote:

Richard - you don't even have a pager?

No.  I remember pretty clearly in 1995 riding my Miyata 1000LT west on
Baseline at Prince of Wales thinking how it would be pretty cool to be
able to call one of my friends at that point.  As with most of my
consumer purchases, I waited a week for a "sober second thought", 
and by

the end of that week I concluded there was no good reason anyone needed
to get a hold of me that urgently.  Once smart phones came out in the
mid-2000s and the way people were using them, I confirmed my initial
decision not to join that culture.  I prefer to be "fully present" in
public.

I've worked at a couple of hospitals, and whenever I still see 
those things, they remind me of better days (of course, they're 
usually on doctors).


-Katie


From: Richard Guy Briggs 
Sent: 02 November 2022 13:31
To: Brett Delmage 
Cc: linux@linux-ottawa.org 
Subject: Re: [linux] Meeting Thursday night (edited to be factually 
correct)


Attention : courriel externe | external email

On 2022-11-02 11:44, Brett Delmage wrote:

On Wed, 2 Nov 2022, Richard Guy Briggs wrote:

The dynamics are different in person, and I am seeking that
type of interaction because we haven't had that for 2.5 years.

...


Is this a OCLUG meeting or a Beer SIG?

"yes".

"In person" is not the same as maskless. People can have perfectly 
valuable
and enjoyable social interactions while still respectfully wearing 
masks, as

has been established the past two years.
They are even better when food is shared.  The Linux Plumbers 
Conference

and Linux Security Summit we attended in September in Dublin
demonstrated that very clearly.

But not in a bar this week. Such a choice, especially without 
concern and
action to involve virtual participants who may be the most 
isolated, is

exclusionary at the least, IMO.

*I* don't have a mobile device, but I'm not adverse to having someone
with such a device join us and connect to the virtual meeting.


Ottawa has its most COVID-19 hospitalizations in 9 months
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/covid19-ottawa-current-cases-status-november-2022-1.6636608 


I've been following the poop-meter regularly for more than two years:
 https://613covid.ca/wastewater/

Mine is a personal choice.  I am comfortable with my informed risk
taking into account vaccine status and previous exposure and the 
risk to

other household members.

I'm not a member of TUPOC (they are currently hanging out at the
public archives and national library...).

   slainte mhath, RGB

   slainte mhath, RGB

   slainte mhath, RGB
--
Richard Guy Briggs   --  ~\    -- ~\ 
 --  \___   o \@ @    Ride yer 
bike!

Ottawa, ON, CANADA  --  Lo_>__M__\\/\%__\\/\%
Vote! -- 
_GTVS6#790__(*)__(*)(*)(*)_


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Re: [linux] Meeting Thursday night (edited to be factually correct)

[Tug Williams]

On 01/11/2022 22:06, Richard Guy Briggs wrote:

On 2022-11-01 16:29, Tug Williams wrote:

No-one has arranged a physical meeting, so the meeting will be on jitsi
only.

Ok, I'll propose to meet at the Royal Oak.  I'll suggest the
Wellington/Hinton location because there seem to be more people in the
west end.  (I can see a Royal Oak from my home office here, but I'm east
of parliament...)


That said, if anyone wishes to arrange a physical get together with others,
then they can do that, and join the rest of us on the jitsi meeting.

I won't have any mobile device with me.


RGB: Just to be unambiguous here. Are you saying
a) you're leaving your phone at home? or
b) that when you booked the venue, you were unable to ascertain whether 
there was a usable internet connection for connecting to a jitsi meeting? or

c) you won't be joining the jitsi meeting? or
d) something else I have not been able to imagine?

Bottom line, should our assumption be that we cannot rely on your 
contributing to a jitsi discussion about CentOS?


Katie: Will you be joining the jitsi meeting to contribute your piece? 
This is so I know how much needs doing to prepare back up topics, JIC.


Thanks

Tug





The link will follow, before Thursday's meeting.

Tug

On 01/11/2022 16:26, Dmitriy Korovkin wrote:

I would prefer virtual meeting. Much more convenient.
/Dmitriy

On Tue, 1 Nov, 2022 at 4:03 PM, Ian E. Gorman  wrote:

Will the Thursday??meeting be entirely on Jitsi?

On Tue, Nov 1, 2022 at 12:39 PM Katherine Mcmillan 
wrote:

Hi Richard,

I would love to hear about your thoughts/experiences on this!

Sincerely,
Katie


*From:* Richard Guy Briggs 
*Sent:* Tuesday, November 1, 2022 12:35:26 PM
*To:* Tug Williams 
*Cc:* Katherine Mcmillan ;
linux@linux-ottawa.org ; Jean-Francois
Messier 
*Subject:* Re: [linux] Meeting tonight
Attention : courriel externe | external email

On 2022-11-01 12:12, Tug Williams wrote:
> Katie,
>
> I'd be interested to know what you're referring to, as I'm not
a CentOS
> person... I could google, but I'd also be happy to hear on
Thursday :)

As an employee of the organization responsible for that disto, I may
have some opinions about the subject...?? ;-) It was a bit messy...

> I also have a few discussion topics related to Dr Chen's talk.
I have
> written a few notes, but nothing as concrete as "a talk".
>
>
> My 3 sub-topics (follow up questions from his the talk) relate to
>
> - open data formats (I have opinions)
> - data security (I have questions)
> - who pays the ferryman? (I have opinions and questions)
>
>
> Unrelatedley - I also did some initial investigation into
Mastodon as an
> open source replacement for Twitter, which could lead to an
interesting
> discussion. Maybe others have more experience. Alas I didn't
get as far as
> successfully installing a server.
>
>
> So if there is interest, I think we have enough material for a
few jitsi
> based discussions on Thursday.
>
>
> Tug
>
>
>
> On 01/11/2022 11:50, Katherine Mcmillan wrote:
> >Hi Jean-Francois,
> >
> >I am happy to attend a meeting on Thursday.?? I regret missing
last
> >month's meeting as Home Assistant and home automation are really
> >interesting to me, however, I was unexpectedly detained.
> >
> >I would love to know about everyone's experiences around the
changes to
> >CentOS 7/8.?? Personally, those affected my thesis work - I'd
like to know
> >how/if they affected others and what others did.?? I'd be
happy to explain
> >the changes I'm talking about, if needed.
> >
> >Sincerely,
> >Katie
>
>
> >*From:* Jean-Francois Messier 
> >*Sent:* 01 November 2022 11:45
> >*To:* linux@linux-ottawa.org 
> >*Subject:* Re: [linux] Meeting tonight
> >*Attention : courriel externe | external email*
> >Yeah, actually, this is not tonight, but Thursday night. I stand
> >corrected.
> >
> >
> >On 2022-11-01T11:36:26.000-04:00, Jean-Francois Messier

> >wrote:
> >
> >?? Do we have any topic, location, hours for tonight meeting ?
> >
> >?? Thanks :-)
> >
> >?? JF Messier (j...@messier.ca <mailto:j...@messier.ca
<mailto:j...@messier.ca>>)
> >
> >

?? slainte 

Re: [linux] Meeting tonight

[Tug Williams]

Katie,


I'd be interested to know what you're referring to, as I'm not a CentOS 
person... I could google, but I'd also be happy to hear on Thursday :)



I also have a few discussion topics related to Dr Chen's talk. I have 
written a few notes, but nothing as concrete as "a talk".



My 3 sub-topics (follow up questions from his the talk) relate to

- open data formats (I have opinions)
- data security (I have questions)
- who pays the ferryman? (I have opinions and questions)


Unrelatedley - I also did some initial investigation into Mastodon as an 
open source replacement for Twitter, which could lead to an interesting 
discussion. Maybe others have more experience. Alas I didn't get as far 
as successfully installing a server.



So if there is interest, I think we have enough material for a few jitsi 
based discussions on Thursday.



Tug



On 01/11/2022 11:50, Katherine Mcmillan wrote:

Hi Jean-Francois,

I am happy to attend a meeting on Thursday.  I regret missing last 
month's meeting as Home Assistant and home automation are really 
interesting to me, however, I was unexpectedly detained.


I would love to know about everyone's experiences around the changes 
to CentOS 7/8.  Personally, those affected my thesis work - I'd like 
to know how/if they affected others and what others did.  I'd be happy 
to explain the changes I'm talking about, if needed.


Sincerely,
Katie

*From:* Jean-Francois Messier 
*Sent:* 01 November 2022 11:45
*To:* linux@linux-ottawa.org 
*Subject:* Re: [linux] Meeting tonight
*Attention : courriel externe | external email*
Yeah, actually, this is not tonight, but Thursday night. I stand 
corrected.



On 2022-11-01T11:36:26.000-04:00, Jean-Francois Messier 
 wrote:


Do we have any topic, location, hours for tonight meeting ?

Thanks :-)

JF Messier (j...@messier.ca )

Re: [linux] Systemd vs Devuan

[Tug Williams]

On 19/07/2021 18:02, fz wrote:


What do I *actually* need systemd for???


There are plenty of flavours of linux which don't use systemd, so you 
don't *need* it.


Some applications are written that assume systemd is on your system. So 
to use these, you need to implement parts of the systemd API to handle 
those dependencies, without implementing everything.


For example Gentoo's elogind, which is "the systemd project's logind, 
extracted to a standalone package. It's designed for users who prefer a 
non-systemd init system, but still want to use popular software such as 
KDE/Wayland or GNOME that otherwise hard-depends on systemd."


Or eudev, which is "Gentoo's fork of udev, systemd's device file manager 
for the Linux kernel. It manages device nodes in /dev and handles all 
user space actions when adding or removing devices."


Whether this is good, pointless, doomed or something else, I don't know. 
I just use the "disable systemd" bit of Gentoo and forget about it.


My resistance is because I like the "do one thing and do it well" 
philosophy, and feel less comfortable with the "let me do everything for 
you, and then make everyone else do it my way too, 'cos I'm me" philosophy.


https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Gentoo_Without_systemd

Tug


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Re: [linux] CentOS alternatives: Devuan

[Tug Williams]

As does Gentoo. It provides profiles with and without systemd. Your choice.

On 14/07/2021 11:21, J C Nash wrote:

FWIW, I MX/Antix also avoid systemd.


MX Linux ships with systemd present but disabled by default. The MX Linux team 
strongly urges users to remain with this configuration which uses sysvinit 
instead. This page simply provides information for those interested in the 
question.


JN

On 2021-07-14 11:16 a.m., fz wrote:

Hey, I'm a serial lurker on OCLUG or whatever it's called these days.

I recently climbed out from under systemd  and have found Devuan to be the 
current sweet spot for people who like
autonomy, yet have access to the large GNU ecosystem. I'm talking server side, 
but I know a guy running it on the
desktop too. It's basically Debian, without systemd. (install Debian, then run 
a few scripts, found on the Devuan.org
website, which rip out systemd and put in eudev. Then point to the Devuan 
repositories and install whatever).

I used to run Ubuntu everywhere/desktop/server, I'm an applications programmer, 
but then for various reasons got my
fingers into more system level activities and realized the hot mess of systemd 
was blocking me, and nearly
incomprehensible, closely followed by all the rest of the commercialization of 
Ubuntu. So I moved to Debian, then on my
friend's suggestion tried Devuan, to find it highly compatible, but I still had 
my hands on the steering wheel to do
what I wanted.

Currently I'm configuring a webserver with nginx/maria/php etc all the open/non 
proprietary stuff on Devuan in the cloud
(digital ocean) and ... it works. Just compare a list of running services on 
whatever you're using to Devuan, and draw
your own conclusions.

Imho, you get all the benefits without all the strings attached of the big 
players deciding what you need and how you
should use it. I've used CentOS before to setup an IBM qRadar installation, and 
... it was nightmarish, just like all
things IBM. Again, IMHO, if you don't really NEED the compatibility to, who 
knows what, your clients, or your own legacy
data/systems, why would you want all the bloat and worse, the uncertainty that 
IBM, Poettering, or others just decide to
go a new horrible commercial way next year? Gnome 3 anyone? Did anyone really 
want systemd?

It's happening a lot lately.


On 2021-07-14 10:49 a.m., Michael P. Soulier wrote:

Debian works fine for me. :)

Mike

On 2021-07-14 10:19 a.m., Alan McKay wrote:

Picking up this old thread ... was just looking at a bunch of things
and as much as I dislike Oracle (and what they did to Sun) I have to
say this is a pretty compelling story for anyone looking for an
alternative to CentOS now that "Stream" has been announced

https://linux.oracle.com/switch/centos/



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Re: [linux] possible race condition in makefile with multiple dependencies?

[Tug Williams]

On 03/06/2021 10:38, Michael P. Soulier wrote:

On 2021-06-03 10:22 a.m., Dianne Skoll wrote:

Shouldn't be.  My understanding (which may be wrong) is that make
calculates the dependency graph first, not in parallel.  Then it
executes as many parallel tasks as the -j option asks for, or that
make sense... whichever is smaller.  Since the dependency graph is a
DAG, make should, in theory, be smart enough to see that two
dependencies depend on the same node and run only one job to build the
depended-upon node.

I routinely use "make -j `nproc`" and have never run into any issues.


Good to know. Does anyone have a solution for make across multiple 
machines, perhaps using ssh?


distccd

On Gentoo you configure your preferred "-j" value in 
/etc/portage/make.conf. It will compile that number files in parallel. 
distcc will allow that work to be shared across multiple machines - and 
cross compile for different architectures if required.


Some gentoo packages need to be forced to build with -j1 if
a) it needs hideous amounts of RAM
b) some just need it (I assume some of these race conditions)

Tug



Mike

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Re: [linux] anywhere in town to get solar chargers with USB ports

[Tug Williams]

Canadian tire usually has all the stuff you can get away with...

"small devices" I charge through the cigarette lighter in the car.


I've only ever needed a full blown development laptop. My off-grid 
development environment is now Pi4 + solar panels + 12V Deep cycle 
battery + 12V to USB converter (+ USB Y cable).


In the past I used the following setup to run a laptop off grid. I 
needed the battery as either the solar charger, or the 12V to AC/USB 
converter wouldn't engage with just the solar panel connected.


panel + charger to charge a 12V battery (Coleman 40W comes with all the 
bits)

a 12V to AC/USB converter
a 12V battery

Tug


On 13/11/2020 05:12, Robert P. J. Day wrote:

   will be off the grid later this month for a few days and want to be
able to charge some small USB devices ... everything at best buy is
"available online" only, is there anywhere in town that actually has
small solar chargers on the shelves?

rday

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Re: [linux] AGM -- NOW!

[Tug Williams]

Alas we were unable to get a quorum tonight.

Please keep an eye out for future announcements, for we will need to 
have an AGM at some point.


Thank you to those who turned out.

Regards

Tug (and the rest of the board)

On 2020-04-09 19:13, J C Nash wrote:

Right now the Linux-Ottawa AGM is in progress on Slack at

https://app.slack.com/client/T1B1YN3J6/C1B1DJ7M4

JN

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Re: [linux] Thinking of giving away some Git courses/seminars to promote my classes

[Tug Williams]

I had understood that next week's discussion would be more aimed at top 
down pragmatic use of git in the real world - hopefully based on the 
"tools should make life easier, not inflict pain" principal.


We had a bottom up talk a while back. I think Ian gave it?

Tug

On 2019-10-29 11:49, J C Nash wrote:

I have more of my own stuff on Gitlab. However, I'm interested in learning a bit
more about using git effectively in collaboration with others no matter which 
platform
(or their own site) they are using. The git paradigm is not trivial. For those 
of us
who use it sporadically there is some "relearning" each time. Recently I found 
I failed
to get a pull request to work properly. Still not sure why. I suspect there's 
other
members who are not power users of git who can benefit from some helpful cheat 
notes
and diagrams, as well as an overview of the web interface.

JN


On 2019-10-29 10:22 a.m., Rick Leir wrote:

Hi John and Robert
There might be time for a Github vs Gitlab chat. Several notable projects went 
to Gitlab, possibly due to a long
standing antipathy to Microsoft. I am at Github myself.
Cheers
Rick

On October 29, 2019 10:07:57 AM EDT, J C Nash  wrote:

 I suspect Scott will get this via the list, but just in case ...

 Probably worth a little coordination so we have a smooth meeting.

 Thanks, JN

 On 2019-10-29 10:06 a.m., Robert P. J. Day wrote:

 On Tue, 29 Oct 2019, J C Nash wrote:

 A discussion of using git (in particular on github) is one of the
 items for next week's meeting. I suggested it after realizing that 
I
 didn't manage a change properly with an R package I'm developing
 with a colleague I've never met but have been sharing development
 with for the last couple of years.

 Your input would be most welcome.


 well, if there's an open speaking slot, i can present what i was
 thinking of as a 35-40 minute "brown bag" lunchtime seminar. it's a
 little bit techie -- it explains the structure of Git's object store
 and how Git actually stores history using a combination of blobs,
 trees, commits and tags.

 if people are interested, i can give that one.

 rday


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--
Sorry for being brief. Alternate email is rickleir at yahoo dot com

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Re: [linux] Update: One speaker unavailable tonight

[tug williams]

So, my short talk turned into a long talk. An enjoyable evening with a
great group of people.

Thank you to all for the constructive and helpful feedback.

Tug

On 07/02/2019 10:21, Scott Murphy wrote:
> Our main talk speaker is in Toronto and will not be able to speak tonight. We 
> will reschedule him for next month with Brenda’s presentation. 
>
> So we have an open topic session as well as Tug’s short talk. If anyone has 
> something they would like to present, here is a golden opportunity.
>
>
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Re: [linux] Camerata: better than meetups, and FLOSS

[Tug Williams]

Rob,

(take 2 after problems with the list)

I realised that the link was about Opera (the performance art) and not
Opera (the browser).

If by "over use of polyphony" I should understand that software is
generally unintelligible, as it's hacked at by multiple people without a
clear or consistent vision, and seldom actually fixed? Then we're on the
same page :)

As everyone is different, I think it is hard to come up with rules for a
team until you know who is in the team. What skills, and abilities
individuals have, how they communicate, how they hold mental models etc

You seem to be proposing a solution, but I don't understand the problems
(or which bits of the, somewhat all-over-the-place, original article
implied)

a) What goal do you want a team to achieve?
b) What do you see is wrong with current team process?

If we're paid to go into an office, we theoretically succumb to the will
of the paymaster for a), though my observations over the years are that
no-one is 100% committed to the official goals. Even if those goals are
fully comprehended, or indeed defined or knowable.

Until time is spend time with a team, fixes cannot be proposed - though
I have my suspicions as to what things are typically broken in most teams.

Tug
On 06/29/18 06:57, Rob Echlin wrote:
> Hi
> Camerata is a name for a group of people with shared goals, working
> together to help each other with a common goal, such as to improve
> something.
> They generally get together in real life, not just online.
> They may also help each other to get better at the skills needed for
> the thing they are working on together.
>
> Like a meetup, but with more interaction.
> Like a hackathon, but with more interaction.
>
> I think such a group could be supported by online software, and could
> be an online group, as well as IRL.
>
> More about the camerata idea, in an article on Medium called The
> origins of Opera and the Future of Programming
> .
>
> For each group in the system, there would be one or more sets of
> related articles, possibly called a book.
> Each article would have one author, with the ability to allow one
> other person at a time to edit it instead of them.
> Articles would be private or public.
> There would be discussion streams for each article, for each book, for
> the group as a whole.
> I would expect date and conversation access, like a mail list archive,
> as well as the long stream.
>
> Each group would have 0 or more offline meetup groups, with scheduled
> meetings and locations, descriptions of the event - speakers, topics.
>
> OK, there's more.
> There would not be one site, but loads, like Mastadon.
> Each site would have a streaming list of recent articles, tailored to
> the logged-in viewer like Medium. In other words, based on your
> preferences and history of what you veiwed, groups you subscribed to.
> You can subscrbe to groups as a reader, separately from joining as a
> member/author.
>
> There would be a stream of articles from other sites.
> You would click on that link in the summary in the stream, and read
> the article on it's home site, probably.
> You can comment on articles, comments are threaded so you can have
> conversations.
> Comments on one article are one of the discussion streams for that
> article.
>
> Each group would have a stream of it's own articles.
> Each group would also have a list of the bookshelves.
> Each book would have an heirarchical toc, like a book or magazine.
> Maybe there could be a mindmap view?
> You can view/read the book as a whole, with ability to jump around in
> it to other articles.
>
> I think I have too many features in this software already. 
>
> There could be presentations in the book as well.
>
> WYSIWYG editor, plus ReST source editor.
>
> I will post more details in a GitLab repo later this weekend.
>
> Any comments?
> Know of any open source software that is close to (parts of) this,
> that I could fork, or just learn from?
>
> All my very best,
> Rob
>
> -- Rob Echlin, B. Eng. 613-266-8311 -  Ottawa, Canada
> - https://linkedin.com/in/robechlin
> - https://medium.com/@rechlin 

Re: [linux] displaying action of subversion that has been called from a script

[tug williams]

1) would 'svn info' give you sufficient information?

Path: .
Working Copy Root Path: /home/BLAH/BLAH
URL: svn://SERVER/BLAH
Relative URL: ^/
Repository Root: svn://SERVER/BLAH
Repository UUID: BLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAH
Revision: 1489
Node Kind: directory
Schedule: normal
Last Changed Author: BLAH
Last Changed Rev: 1489
Last Changed Date: 2018-05-27 09:40:12 -0400 (Sun, 27 May 2018)


2) you can also see the history of checkins with 'svn log'

this will show the last 3 events

svn log -l 3

r1489 | BLAH | 2018-05-27 09:40:12 -0400 (Sun, 27 May 2018) | 1 line

useful comment

r1488 | BLAH | 2018-05-26 21:13:40 -0400 (Sat, 26 May 2018) | 1 line

another useful comment

r1487 | BLAH | 2018-05-26 09:03:19 -0400 (Sat, 26 May 2018) | 1 line


3) Also repeating 'svn up' after running your app would reduce the
chance of conflicts, ie
svn up
genealogyK
svn up
svn commit

4) finally 'svn status -q' will return nothing if everything is fine, or
report issues if not.

On 27/05/18 13:20, J C Nash wrote:
> Somehow I think this should be easy, but my efforts so far have not been 
> successful.
> I must be missing something obvious.
>
> I'm wanting to share edits of genealogy files with my wife on several 
> computers. (I can
> give some chapter and verse on what we tried for genealogy software at a 
> meeting sometime.
> We settled on GenealogyJ for now.)
>
> The important data collection is a GEDCOM file and a directory tree of image 
> files, and
> I put this on a server which runs svn and ssh. Mary can doubleclick on the 
> GEDCOM in
> a file manager (Double Commander or Caja or ...) to initiate my script (call 
> it genj),
> which is important, since she doesn't much like command-line, and often gets 
> into the
> wrong directory in a terminal. The script then has the general form
>
>   svn up
>
>   genealogyJ
>
>   svn commit
>
> Now the glitchy bit. I want to see what subversion is doing i.e., did it get 
> an
> update, and is there any conflict i.e., have we been editing at the same time?
> Also did the commit complete OK?
>
> I currently have zenity displaying a message, but it only says what is being
> attempted.
>
> Cheers, JN
>
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>


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