Re: [LAD] Whining

[Louigi Verona]

Hey Keith,

Loved your message. First, I can relate. We've all been there: bad morning,
not enough coffee, and then bham! Someone is wrong on the Internet. My
life's story.

Second, the fact that you wrote an email asking why everyone is complaining
about systemd means that your first email to the list was to complain about
the list! And you are asking if you belong? Man, you're now one of us.
Complaining about the list is the secret first step to becoming the list's
veteran, so, welcome!

Finally, I love the elegance of the solution. You've actually broken the
link. We're now talking about something else! Not a single complaint about
systemd in this thread. In fact, I think systemd is the good guy here.

Louigi Verona
https://louigiverona.com/
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Re: [LAD] B.Spacr - New LV2 sound effect plugin

[Louigi Verona]

Folks, this is more than revolutionary. I tried applying B.Space to random
noise and got some cool results.

Here's a soundcloud link. I start with showing the noise, then I apply the
plugin and you can see how the noise changes. Then you can hear me turning
the plugin off and on again.

https://soundcloud.com/louigiverona/bspacr-applied-to-random-noise/s-iE1DDw6eCSy

This is awesome


Louigi Verona
https://louigiverona.com/


On Thu, Apr 1, 2021 at 3:33 PM Hans Wilmers  wrote:

> Enspiring implementation! I am more of a hardware guy, so I ported most
> of what I understood of the sound processing into this little box:
>
>   https://wilmers.no/download/div/dscf3136.jpg
>
> This is a rough-and-ready implementation in pure analog hardware, but
> the results are just fantastic.
>
> / Hans
>
>
>
> On 01/04/2021 10:00, Jeremy Jongepier wrote:
> > On 01-04-2021 09:33, Lorenzo Sutton wrote:
> >> On 01/04/21 00:43, Sven Jaehnichen wrote:
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>> after weeks of hard work I just released the first official version
> >>> of a new sound effect plugin.
> >>>
> >>> B.Spacr is a unique LV2 effect plugin that enables a clear and
> >>> brilliant audibility of your music production.
> >>> B.Spacr is suited for *any* kind of music, including rock, funk, pop,
> >>> rap, and electronic music.
> >>
> >> Wow this is an incredible plug-in!!
> >> So, I will admit I am always a bit hesitant when people say a plugin
> >> is suited for 'any' kind of music, but this is a welcome exception!
> >> I tried it on all of those genres and even others such as the typical
> >> 'classics' (Mozart, Beethoven... Enya), and I was literally blown
> >> away the brilliance, audibility and interoperability of my audio
> >> jumped to unbelievable levels.. I couldn't believe my ears - and wow
> >> the interface and user experience are so clean and intuitive!
> >> :-)
> >
> > Hear hear! Awesome plugin, this is going to be an always on plugin! Hats
> > off for the code also, I've rarely seen such clean, concise code.
> > Sachiko M never sounded so good. Thanks!
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Jeremy
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
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Re: [LAD] B.Spacr - New LV2 sound effect plugin

[Louigi Verona]

Damn, this is awesome. I am now re-rendering all of my droning tunes with
the plugin

Louigi Verona
https://louigiverona.com/


On Thu, Apr 1, 2021 at 10:01 AM Jeremy Jongepier 
wrote:

> On 01-04-2021 09:33, Lorenzo Sutton wrote:
> > On 01/04/21 00:43, Sven Jaehnichen wrote:
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> after weeks of hard work I just released the first official version of
> >> a new sound effect plugin.
> >>
> >> B.Spacr is a unique LV2 effect plugin that enables a clear and
> >> brilliant audibility of your music production.
> >> B.Spacr is suited for *any* kind of music, including rock, funk, pop,
> >> rap, and electronic music.
> >
> > Wow this is an incredible plug-in!!
> > So, I will admit I am always a bit hesitant when people say a plugin is
> > suited for 'any' kind of music, but this is a welcome exception!
> > I tried it on all of those genres and even others such as the typical
> > 'classics' (Mozart, Beethoven... Enya), and I was literally blown
> > away the brilliance, audibility and interoperability of my audio
> > jumped to unbelievable levels.. I couldn't believe my ears - and wow the
> > interface and user experience are so clean and intuitive!
> > :-)
>
> Hear hear! Awesome plugin, this is going to be an always on plugin! Hats
> off for the code also, I've rarely seen such clean, concise code.
> Sachiko M never sounded so good. Thanks!
>
> Best,
>
> Jeremy
>
>
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[LAD] 100% Open Source Music

[Louigi Verona]

Hey everyone!

My music "career" started with mod music. Nope, not the music and fashion
subculture from the late 1950s, but this mod music
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Module_file>, when people used programs
called "trackers" to produce stuff. It was either this or buying expensive
hardware.

Although people associate MOD music scene mostly with chiptunes, it was
much more than that, and has its own pantheon of musical gods
<https://modarchive.org/index.php?request=view_chart=topartists> who
produced tracks ranging from synth pop
<https://modarchive.org/index.php?request=view_by_moduleid=35280> to
jazz
<https://modarchive.org/index.php?request=view_by_moduleid=135135>,
from orchestral
<https://modarchive.org/index.php?request=view_by_moduleid=120901> to
realistic folk instrumentals
<https://modarchive.org/index.php?request=view_by_moduleid=155605>.
Immersed in this music, I severed my link to the mainstream idea of songs
with their standard verse/chorus, and endless drivel about relationships.
That link has not been restored. My mind was opened to music that was so
unlike anything I'd heard before that it felt a bit like walking through
that door in the wall. (Is this H.G. Wells reference
<https://www.encyclopedia.com/education/news-wires-white-papers-and-books/door-wall>
too obscure? :) )

My heroes were Elwood, DRAX, Awesome. Who even knows these names? I once
created a Wikipedia page for Elwood and it stayed up for many years, but
recently I discovered that it was removed. And yet Elwood
<https://modarchive.org/index.php?request=view_artist_modules=69004>
is a legendary musician and producer in the MOD scene, who has inspired and
awed several generations of fellow tracker musicians.

Some names have gotten enough traction to stay on Wikipedia. Purple Motion
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonne_Valtonen> is one clear example.
Several producers, famous today, started out using trackers. Here is
an incomplete
list <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Tracker_musicians>. It mostly
lacks artists who made their names in the tracking scene, but did not
become notable outside of it.



It's been a while since I went on a nostalgia tour, but due to my recent
project of putting out an album of old tunes called "Only Slightly
Embarrassing"
<https://louigiverona.com/?page=projects=music=slightly_embarrassing>,
I decided to cross further into the continent of "back in my days", which
brought me straight to ModArchive <https://modarchive.org/>. Eventually, I
was convinced that I should try making more tracked works, at the very
least because my early works were so shitty that I felt I had to make up
for that.

Long story short, I realized that MOD music is the true Open Source Music.
I mean, think about it. The most widely used software today is GPLed (
OpenMPT <https://openmpt.org/>). The modules you release are open source
too, just like JavaScript. You open your XM or IT file and inspect how the
tune was created. And you learn.

And there is surely stuff to learn. Not all of it is even tracker-specific.
People had no EQs, no compressors, no reverbs. And yet so much of tracked
music sounds just incredible
<https://modarchive.org/index.php?request=view_by_moduleid=134387>.
How did they do it? It turns out, there are ways.

Of course, all of that leads to a bit of self promotion. I would like to
draw your attention to the two tunes that I've written in the past month
with OpenMPT and which you can download and see how they were made. (Or
don't. You can instead explore ModArchive's Top Favorites
<https://modarchive.org/index.php?request=view_top_favourites>.)

   - Lid
   <https://modarchive.org/index.php?request=view_by_moduleid=186854>
   - Twizzy II
   <https://modarchive.org/index.php?request=view_by_moduleid=186855>

You can just use an Online Player to listen to them in a browser, or you
can use almost any modern player to play them. Audacious, VLC, for example.

An interesting thing is that the MOD scene has its own cultural backdrop:
it is primarily melodic oriented, and having melodies means a lot. If you
don't like melodies, you go for trance. I am putting out minimal house,
rominimal even. So, I am sure I will get little love.

But for those of you who enjoy this style of music, I think you might like
these. I am personally very happy with the sound and how both of these
turned out. And yet - no EQing, no nothing. Just volume envelopes, volume
levels and panning work. **a little proud**

It's somehow interesting to me that this is open source minimal house
music. Not a lot of those out there.

p.s.: fuck my tracks, listen to this
<https://modarchive.org/index.php?request=view_by_moduleid=34427>





Louigi Verona
https://louigiverona.com/
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Re: [LAD] BPM and key detection libraries

[Louigi Verona]

Just wanted to thank everyone for the replies, this was very helpful!

Louigi Verona
https://louigiverona.com/


On Thu, Oct 17, 2019 at 9:38 AM David Moreno Montero 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> for a project I used MiniBPM (https://breakfastquay.com/minibpm/) and it
> gave me very good results for beat detection. It's GPL, or small payment
> for commercial use.
>
> As an alternative I used SoundTouch (
> https://gitlab.com/soundtouch/soundtouch/) that also give pitch and tempo
> control, and although the pitch/tempo algorithms are good, the BPM
> detection is way worse than MiniBPM. This one is LGPL.
>
> Regards,
> David.
>
>
> On Thu, 17 Oct 2019 at 05:52, michael noble  wrote:
>
>>   As a case in point, Mixxx uses Vamp:
>> https://www.mixxx.org/wiki/doku.php/developer_guide_analysers
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 17, 2019 at 12:47 PM michael noble  wrote:
>>
>>> You might also look at Aubio: https://github.com/aubio/aubio
>>>
>>> BTW, Vamp has an SDK, so it should be suited to your needs. See here:
>>> https://vamp-plugins.org/develop.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 7:58 PM Louigi Verona 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Plugins are good, but I am more interested in libraries that people can
>>>> use for their projects.
>>>>
>>>> bpm-tools look like what I mean, but they are so old: last release was
>>>> in 2013. Are there any other open source libraries people use?
>>>>
>>>> Louigi Verona
>>>> https://louigiverona.com/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Oct 14, 2019 at 3:06 PM Robin Gareus  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 10/14/19 10:36 AM, Louigi Verona wrote:
>>>>> > Hey everyone!
>>>>> >
>>>>> > What are the bpm and key detection libraries people use for open
>>>>> source
>>>>> > projects? And how good are they?
>>>>>
>>>>> https://vamp-plugins.org/download.html are amazing.
>>>>>
>>>>> You can test for yourself using sonic-visualizer.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers!
>>>>> robin
>>>>> ___
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>>>>> https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
>>>>>
>>>> ___
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>>>>
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>
>
> --
> David Moreno Montero
>
> dmor...@coralbits.com
> +34 658 18 77 17
> [image: Coralbits.com] <http://www.coralbits.com/>
> http://www.coralbits.com
>
>
>
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Re: [LAD] BPM and key detection libraries

[Louigi Verona]

Plugins are good, but I am more interested in libraries that people can use
for their projects.

bpm-tools look like what I mean, but they are so old: last release was in
2013. Are there any other open source libraries people use?

Louigi Verona
https://louigiverona.com/


On Mon, Oct 14, 2019 at 3:06 PM Robin Gareus  wrote:

> On 10/14/19 10:36 AM, Louigi Verona wrote:
> > Hey everyone!
> >
> > What are the bpm and key detection libraries people use for open source
> > projects? And how good are they?
>
> https://vamp-plugins.org/download.html are amazing.
>
> You can test for yourself using sonic-visualizer.
>
>
> Cheers!
> robin
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[LAD] BPM and key detection libraries

[Louigi Verona]

Hey everyone!

What are the bpm and key detection libraries people use for open source
projects? And how good are they?

Does anyone know what Mixxx is using?


Louigi Verona
https://louigiverona.com/
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Re: [LAD] Berlin Linux Audio meeting @ c-base 2019-10-08

[Louigi Verona]

Ah, my dudes, I also cannot join this time.

On Tue, Oct 8, 2019, 02:15 Robin Gareus  wrote:

> On 10/7/19 9:18 PM, Daniel Swärd wrote:
> > Hi all.
> >
> > Tomorrow it's the scheduled meeting at c-base again. I don't know if
> > I'll make it (I've stayed home from work today not feeling great), but
> > maybe Louigi or Robin can gather people?
>
> I'm sorry, but I won't be able to join this time, either.
>
> Cheers!
> robin
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[LAD] A bit of 2013 nostalgia!

[Louigi Verona]

Hey everyone!

I have recovered three tracks that I made during LAC2013. Restored from
their sorry state to something more palatable, these 10 minutes of music
will allow you to join me on this nostalgic journey and reminisce about
times long gone!

https://soundcloud.com/louigiverona/sets/lac2013

On track one you can hear samples taken out of the lecture by Rui on
QStuff, which I recorded with a mic right there and immediately
incorporated into the music.

"You are the user!"

This is true Linux Audio community lore :D



Louigi Verona
https://louigiverona.com/
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Re: [LAD] Resampling: SOX vs FFmpeg

[Louigi Verona]

Yep, I've seen this link. But this basically means it has to be compiled
with SoX, and then this algorithm has to be specifically invoked, right.
But by default it uses its own, I guess. So it still leaves us with a
choice - which algo to use?

David makes a good point from a maintenance POV, I wonder if there is an
argument to be made from a DSP point of view, you know.
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Re: [LAD] Resampling: SOX vs FFmpeg

[Louigi Verona]

Is this so? Or should it be specifically compiled with the SoX library?

Louigi Verona
https://louigiverona.com/


On Thu, May 23, 2019 at 4:39 PM Paul Davis 
wrote:

> The good news is that ffmpeg appears to include the soxr algorithm anyway.
>
> On Thu, May 23, 2019 at 7:58 AM Louigi Verona 
> wrote:
>
>> "In terms of quality for resampling, this is the canonical information
>> source: http://src.infinitewave.ca/;
>>
>> Yep, was looking at that. But would appreciate any additional insight,
>> since I am not entirely sure how to read that. For instance, if I compare
>> SoX to FFmpeg, yes, SoX looks way better in this particular case. Question
>> is - are these meaningful differences?
>>
>> Also, the test goes from 96kHz back to 44.1kHz, and people very rarely
>> upload 96kHz.
>>
>> So, I would mostly be interested in 48->44.1 and 44.1->44.1.
>> Specifically, does anything change in the latter case?
>>
>
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Re: [LAD] Resampling: SOX vs FFmpeg

[Louigi Verona]

"In terms of quality for resampling, this is the canonical information
source: http://src.infinitewave.ca/;

Yep, was looking at that. But would appreciate any additional insight,
since I am not entirely sure how to read that. For instance, if I compare
SoX to FFmpeg, yes, SoX looks way better in this particular case. Question
is - are these meaningful differences?

Also, the test goes from 96kHz back to 44.1kHz, and people very rarely
upload 96kHz.

So, I would mostly be interested in 48->44.1 and 44.1->44.1. Specifically,
does anything change in the latter case?
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[LAD] Resampling: SOX vs FFmpeg

[Louigi Verona]

Hey everyone!

I need advice on resampling.

To give you context, I am working at SoundCloud, and one of the current
projects is to refactor the transcoding pipeline. And proper resampling
tools is a question that keeps coming up.

One of the pipelines takes the uploaded file and transcodes it into an mp3.
The general idea is to convert the original file to wav, resample it to
44100, and then finally convert it to mp3 using LAME.

There are several questions here.

1. Which tool to use for transcoding. Should it be SoX, or FFmpeg, or
something else? A lot of the info out there seems to favor SoX, but a lot
of that info is pretty old.

2. Does it make sense to resample to 44100 or to 48000? If it were opus,
the answer if simple: 48000, because that's what the opus spec actually
recommends. There is no such recommendation for mp3 files. Also, upsampling
is not an innocent procedure and the converter has to be of high quality as
well.


p.s.: the described pipeline is not the only one, the original file is
transcoded into multiple formats, including formats with 48000 sample rate,
but the one I am asking about focuses specifically on producing an mp3.

Louigi Verona
https://louigiverona.com/
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Re: [LAD] LAC steaming to c-base, Berlin

[Louigi Verona]

Do try though!


Louigi Verona
https://louigiverona.com/


On Thu, Mar 21, 2019 at 7:21 PM Will Godfrey 
wrote:

> On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 18:58:04 +0100
> Robin Gareus  wrote:
>
> >Hi all,
> >
> >A group of people who do not attend the Linux Audio Conference in
> >Stanford this year are meeting at c-base.org to participate remotely.
>
> Now I'm doubly frustrated :(
> I'd love to join the group, but the chances of getting travel arrangements
> and
> accommodation in place in time are just about zero.
>
> I'll try, but as they say, don't wait for me :(
>
> --
> Will J Godfrey
> http://www.musically.me.uk
> Say you have a poem and I have a tune.
> Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song.
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[LAD] MIDI 2.0 is coming

[Louigi Verona]

So, they just recently announced that MIDI 2.0 has entered the prototyping
phase. Looks like it's getting serious!

Here is some coverage, for example:
https://djtechtools.com/2019/01/23/midi-2-0-is-coming-prototyping-of-new-generation-of-midi-devices-underway/

What do you guys think? What are the expectations here? Implications for
Linux Audio?



Louigi Verona
https://louigiverona.com/
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Re: [LAD] Open Source Design (paid and pro bono design)

[Louigi Verona]

Interesting that on their goals page they never mention "users" or
"customers". So how are they going to understand what works if users are
never consulted? This could be a mistake that would make the whole
initiative void. Designers should help design the software, but it has to
be based on users feedback, with constant testing and iterations. I don't
see any process there that would actually involve actual users.


Louigi Verona
https://louigiverona.com/


On Thu, Nov 29, 2018 at 4:56 PM Louigi Verona 
wrote:

> This is totally a great initiative! Will definitely read up on their
> activities.
>
>
> Louigi Verona
> https://louigiverona.com/
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 29, 2018 at 4:54 PM David Runge  wrote:
>
>> Hey all,
>>
>> I thought I'd spread the word about Open Source Design [1], which is a
>> community of designers and developers that wants to improve usability of
>> free software (never mind the name, I guess most people are not as
>> strict about it as e.g. Richard Stallman ;-) ).
>>
>> A friend (hey Sam!) made me aware of this recently and I think the
>> community can be a great opportunity to either learn about design or
>> find someone to help your project get a facelift (or a logo, or
>> whatever). This can be done by posting a request for a "job" (paid or
>> unpaid) [2] on their site.
>>
>> Maybe it's of help to anyone here.
>>
>> Best,
>> David
>>
>> [1] https://opensourcedesign.net/
>> [2] https://opensourcedesign.net/jobs/
>>
>> --
>> https://sleepmap.de
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Re: [LAD] Open Source Design (paid and pro bono design)

[Louigi Verona]

This is totally a great initiative! Will definitely read up on their
activities.


Louigi Verona
https://louigiverona.com/


On Thu, Nov 29, 2018 at 4:54 PM David Runge  wrote:

> Hey all,
>
> I thought I'd spread the word about Open Source Design [1], which is a
> community of designers and developers that wants to improve usability of
> free software (never mind the name, I guess most people are not as
> strict about it as e.g. Richard Stallman ;-) ).
>
> A friend (hey Sam!) made me aware of this recently and I think the
> community can be a great opportunity to either learn about design or
> find someone to help your project get a facelift (or a logo, or
> whatever). This can be done by posting a request for a "job" (paid or
> unpaid) [2] on their site.
>
> Maybe it's of help to anyone here.
>
> Best,
> David
>
> [1] https://opensourcedesign.net/
> [2] https://opensourcedesign.net/jobs/
>
> --
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Re: [LAD] LAM

[Louigi Verona]

I think having several options is the best idea. Having a Linux Audio or
smth like that on YouTube, archive.org, a user on Soundcloud.


Louigi Verona
https://louigiverona.com/


On Tue, Nov 20, 2018 at 1:41 PM Spencer Jackson 
wrote:

> I've been happy with Archive.org for hosting the Open Source Musician
> Podcast. We could create a collection there.
>
> _Spencer
>
> On Mon, Nov 19, 2018 at 4:25 PM Will J Godfrey <
> willgodf...@musically.me.uk> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 19 Nov 2018 09:52:31 +0100
>> Louigi Verona  wrote:
>>
>> >Completely agree with Daniel here. And Soundcloud or even a YouTube
>> channel
>> >(or both) are far more accessible to listeners as well.
>> >
>> >Louigi Verona
>> >https://louigiverona.com/
>>
>> Soundcloud no longer has groups, They removed then with no discussion and
>> very
>> little warning a couple of years ago.
>>
>> Youtube is a flytrap and slowly increasing it's use of forced advertising.
>>
>> 'Easier' is not necessarily 'Better' :(
>>
>> --
>> It wasn't me! (Well actually, it probably was)
>>
>> ... the hard part is not dodging what life throws at you,
>> but trying to catch the good bits.
>> ___
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>> https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
>>
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Re: [LAD] LAM

[Louigi Verona]

Install an Ad Blocker, Will. YouTube is definitely more reliable than some
website that will at any time go offline for months, and Linux Audio music
might actually get some exposure.


Louigi Verona
https://louigiverona.com/


On Mon, Nov 19, 2018 at 8:49 PM Will J Godfrey 
wrote:

> On Mon, 19 Nov 2018 09:52:31 +0100
> Louigi Verona  wrote:
>
> >Completely agree with Daniel here. And Soundcloud or even a YouTube
> channel
> >(or both) are far more accessible to listeners as well.
> >
> >Louigi Verona
> >https://louigiverona.com/
>
> Soundcloud no longer has groups, They removed then with no discussion and
> very
> little warning a couple of years ago.
>
> Youtube is a flytrap and slowly increasing it's use of forced advertising.
>
> 'Easier' is not necessarily 'Better' :(
>
> --
> It wasn't me! (Well actually, it probably was)
>
> ... the hard part is not dodging what life throws at you,
> but trying to catch the good bits.
> ___
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> https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
>
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Re: [LAD] LAM

[Louigi Verona]

Completely agree with Daniel here. And Soundcloud or even a YouTube channel
(or both) are far more accessible to listeners as well.

Louigi Verona
https://louigiverona.com/


On Mon, Nov 19, 2018 at 9:50 AM Daniel Swärd  wrote:

> On Sun, 2018-11-18 at 08:22 +, Will Godfrey wrote:
> > Linux Audio Music has been dormant for a very long time, but recently
> > I contacted the the person who hosted and ran it.
> >
> > The reason he closed it was because of a serious vulnerability was
> > discovered in Rails, and he no longer had time to do the necessary
> > upgrades.
> >
> > However, he has told me that he still has the entire database and the
> > code. In his own words:
> > "... would be happy to host and do what I can to facilitate a handoff
> > to someone else who wants to manage it."
> >
> > For anyone who doesn't know, this was a relatively simple and clean
> > site aimed specifically at providing a home for tracks composed with
> > Linux - something rather rare!
>
> I think it would be easier and more manageable to just have a group on
> soundcloud (or similar) where we collect music made in Linux. This
> would remove the obstacle keeping the LAM site down (lack of time to
> keep up with updates/security fixes)...
>
> Cheers
>
> /Daniel
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Re: [LAD] All videos online, website going to read-only mode

[Louigi Verona]

Thank you for your work, guys!

On Sun, Jul 15, 2018 at 10:46 PM, Linux Audio Conference  wrote:

> Dear Linux Audio community,
>
> we're sending this mail to let you know about the availability of the
> remaining videos from LAC2018.
> You can find them on media.ccc.de [1] and on the dedicated event pages
> linked to in the schedule [2].
>
> We hope you had a great time at the conference and if you couldn't be
> there physically,
> this is now the time to have a look at much of what has happened in Berlin
> this year.
>
> In other news, the website [3] is going to read-only mode shortly.
>
> See you at future LACs!
>
>
> [1] https://media.ccc.de/b/conferences/lac/lac18
> [2] https://lac.linuxaudio.org/2018/pages/schedule/
> [3] https://lac.linuxaudio.org/2018/
>
> --
> Linux Audio Conference team
> ___
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> https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
>



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Re: [LAD] The Bay of Atlantis

[Louigi Verona]

No, no, I completely see the similarity! And the dynamics of the tune at
that moment are very similar too!

On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 1:30 AM, Paul Davis <p...@linuxaudiosystems.com>
wrote:

> Thanks. For comparison:  https://youtu.be/jd6XL_IOS3I?t=5m01s and listen
> right around the 5:24 mark
>
> It may sound utterly different to you, but this is what I reminded of by
> those precise moments in your piece (which has much more going for it than
> a nostalgia-reminiscence!)
>
> On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 7:19 PM, Louigi Verona <louigi.ver...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Oh yeah, I understood, I meant exactly the chirping sound at 26.00. I
>> even opened the project in the sequencer and also ran Kluppe and Camel
>> Space to reproduce the sound and make sure I am giving you accurate
>> information.
>>
>> On Sat, Apr 28, 2018, 01:04 Paul Davis <p...@linuxaudiosystems.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I wasn't referring to the arpeggiation (really, in TD's case, it's
>>> actually a 16 or 32 step analog sequencer) but the "chirping" sound right
>>> around 25:53 and becomes more obvious at 26:16  . You also used it around
>>> 14:08. "filter and a sequencer" sounds like a likely explanation.
>>>
>>> Anyway, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7t8eoA_1jQ
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 6:46 PM, Louigi Verona <louigi.ver...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hey everyone!
>>>>
>>>> Thank you for the kind words, I am very happy you are enjoying the
>>>> experience.
>>>>
>>>> Any and all sonic references to Tangerine Dream are always accidental,
>>>> as to this day I never listened to Tangerine Dream, although have skimmed
>>>> through several tunes after being told that some of my tunes that feature
>>>> arpeggiation seem to remind people of Tangerine Dream. Right now quickly
>>>> clicked through Rubicon on YouTube. Arpeggiation part in the end is not
>>>> bad, although a little outdated, I guess.
>>>>
>>>> I think the reason why some of my arpeggiating tunes remind people of
>>>> Tangerine Dream is that setting up an arpeggiating bassline as a backbone
>>>> of a tune and then putting things on top is an extremely simple idea that
>>>> many musicians come up with. As I do have a minialistic approach in my
>>>> music, it is possible that it sounds similar to what they did back in the
>>>> day. Either way, Tangerine Dream has never been part of my musical diet,
>>>> but I don't mind people hearing these unintentional references, this is
>>>> always very interesting.
>>>>
>>>> As to the part at 26 minute, I think this is a pad loop that I played
>>>> through Kluppe sent through a chain of CamelSpace ran though Festige and
>>>> then through Rakarrack, powered by an almost 100% wet signal Long Reverb of
>>>> the reverb module. The "watery" feeling is created by CamelSpace, which
>>>> provides a filter and a sequencer which is capable of gating and changing
>>>> the cutoff frequency value. An incredible VST plugin, although I actually
>>>> rarely use it for ambient.
>>>>
>>>> So, a mix of Linux and VST technology here. But as far as I remember,
>>>> this was probably the only non-Linux piece of tech I've used here.
>>>>
>>>> L.V.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 9:07 PM, Paul Davis <p...@linuxaudiosystems.com
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Love it. Especially love the (possibly accidental) sonic references to
>>>>> Rubicon (Tangerine Dream) e.g. at about the 26 minute mark. What is that?
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Apr 23, 2018 at 5:16 AM, Louigi Verona <
>>>>> louigi.ver...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Announcing a new release of project "droning", tune 281 "The Bay of
>>>>>> Atlantis".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Stream it here:* https://louigi.bandcamp.com/al
>>>>>> bum/281-the-bay-of-atlantis
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Word from the author:*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Extensive work went into this creation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I wanted the tune to create a feeling that this is one solid
>>>>>> composition, not a soundtrack with 

Re: [LAD] The Bay of Atlantis

[Louigi Verona]

Oh yeah, I understood, I meant exactly the chirping sound at 26.00. I even
opened the project in the sequencer and also ran Kluppe and Camel Space to
reproduce the sound and make sure I am giving you accurate information.

On Sat, Apr 28, 2018, 01:04 Paul Davis <p...@linuxaudiosystems.com> wrote:

> I wasn't referring to the arpeggiation (really, in TD's case, it's
> actually a 16 or 32 step analog sequencer) but the "chirping" sound right
> around 25:53 and becomes more obvious at 26:16  . You also used it around
> 14:08. "filter and a sequencer" sounds like a likely explanation.
>
> Anyway, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7t8eoA_1jQ
>
> On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 6:46 PM, Louigi Verona <louigi.ver...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hey everyone!
>>
>> Thank you for the kind words, I am very happy you are enjoying the
>> experience.
>>
>> Any and all sonic references to Tangerine Dream are always accidental, as
>> to this day I never listened to Tangerine Dream, although have skimmed
>> through several tunes after being told that some of my tunes that feature
>> arpeggiation seem to remind people of Tangerine Dream. Right now quickly
>> clicked through Rubicon on YouTube. Arpeggiation part in the end is not
>> bad, although a little outdated, I guess.
>>
>> I think the reason why some of my arpeggiating tunes remind people of
>> Tangerine Dream is that setting up an arpeggiating bassline as a backbone
>> of a tune and then putting things on top is an extremely simple idea that
>> many musicians come up with. As I do have a minialistic approach in my
>> music, it is possible that it sounds similar to what they did back in the
>> day. Either way, Tangerine Dream has never been part of my musical diet,
>> but I don't mind people hearing these unintentional references, this is
>> always very interesting.
>>
>> As to the part at 26 minute, I think this is a pad loop that I played
>> through Kluppe sent through a chain of CamelSpace ran though Festige and
>> then through Rakarrack, powered by an almost 100% wet signal Long Reverb of
>> the reverb module. The "watery" feeling is created by CamelSpace, which
>> provides a filter and a sequencer which is capable of gating and changing
>> the cutoff frequency value. An incredible VST plugin, although I actually
>> rarely use it for ambient.
>>
>> So, a mix of Linux and VST technology here. But as far as I remember,
>> this was probably the only non-Linux piece of tech I've used here.
>>
>> L.V.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 9:07 PM, Paul Davis <p...@linuxaudiosystems.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Love it. Especially love the (possibly accidental) sonic references to
>>> Rubicon (Tangerine Dream) e.g. at about the 26 minute mark. What is that?
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 23, 2018 at 5:16 AM, Louigi Verona <louigi.ver...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Announcing a new release of project "droning", tune 281 "The Bay of
>>>> Atlantis".
>>>>
>>>> *Stream it here:*
>>>> https://louigi.bandcamp.com/album/281-the-bay-of-atlantis
>>>>
>>>> *Word from the author:*
>>>>
>>>> Extensive work went into this creation.
>>>>
>>>> I wanted the tune to create a feeling that this is one solid
>>>> composition, not a soundtrack with distinct segments, but something rather
>>>> like an ocean which is in one instance is calm and in the other - furious.
>>>> But still just one single ocean.
>>>>
>>>> To all of you travelers out there, and to those of us who find visiting
>>>> nonexistent places important.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *Technical specs:* Qtractor, Rakarrack, Carla, Kluppe, seq24 and a
>>>> number of LV2 plugins. Zyn is used, although a number of sounds came from
>>>> other sources.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Louigi Verona
>>>> https://www.patreon.com/droning
>>>> https://louigiverona.com/
>>>>
>>>> ___
>>>> Linux-audio-dev mailing list
>>>> Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org
>>>> https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Louigi Verona
>> https://www.patreon.com/droning
>> https://louigiverona.com/
>>
>
>
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Re: [LAD] The Bay of Atlantis

[Louigi Verona]

Hey everyone!

Thank you for the kind words, I am very happy you are enjoying the
experience.

Any and all sonic references to Tangerine Dream are always accidental, as
to this day I never listened to Tangerine Dream, although have skimmed
through several tunes after being told that some of my tunes that feature
arpeggiation seem to remind people of Tangerine Dream. Right now quickly
clicked through Rubicon on YouTube. Arpeggiation part in the end is not
bad, although a little outdated, I guess.

I think the reason why some of my arpeggiating tunes remind people of
Tangerine Dream is that setting up an arpeggiating bassline as a backbone
of a tune and then putting things on top is an extremely simple idea that
many musicians come up with. As I do have a minialistic approach in my
music, it is possible that it sounds similar to what they did back in the
day. Either way, Tangerine Dream has never been part of my musical diet,
but I don't mind people hearing these unintentional references, this is
always very interesting.

As to the part at 26 minute, I think this is a pad loop that I played
through Kluppe sent through a chain of CamelSpace ran though Festige and
then through Rakarrack, powered by an almost 100% wet signal Long Reverb of
the reverb module. The "watery" feeling is created by CamelSpace, which
provides a filter and a sequencer which is capable of gating and changing
the cutoff frequency value. An incredible VST plugin, although I actually
rarely use it for ambient.

So, a mix of Linux and VST technology here. But as far as I remember, this
was probably the only non-Linux piece of tech I've used here.

L.V.



On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 9:07 PM, Paul Davis <p...@linuxaudiosystems.com>
wrote:

> Love it. Especially love the (possibly accidental) sonic references to
> Rubicon (Tangerine Dream) e.g. at about the 26 minute mark. What is that?
>
> On Mon, Apr 23, 2018 at 5:16 AM, Louigi Verona <louigi.ver...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Announcing a new release of project "droning", tune 281 "The Bay of
>> Atlantis".
>>
>> *Stream it here:* https://louigi.bandcamp.com/al
>> bum/281-the-bay-of-atlantis
>>
>> *Word from the author:*
>>
>> Extensive work went into this creation.
>>
>> I wanted the tune to create a feeling that this is one solid composition,
>> not a soundtrack with distinct segments, but something rather like an ocean
>> which is in one instance is calm and in the other - furious. But still just
>> one single ocean.
>>
>> To all of you travelers out there, and to those of us who find visiting
>> nonexistent places important.
>>
>>
>> *Technical specs:* Qtractor, Rakarrack, Carla, Kluppe, seq24 and a
>> number of LV2 plugins. Zyn is used, although a number of sounds came from
>> other sources.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Louigi Verona
>> https://www.patreon.com/droning
>> https://louigiverona.com/
>>
>> ___
>> Linux-audio-dev mailing list
>> Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org
>> https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
>>
>>
>


-- 
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https://www.patreon.com/droning
https://louigiverona.com/
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[LAD] The Bay of Atlantis

[Louigi Verona]

Announcing a new release of project "droning", tune 281 "The Bay of
Atlantis".

*Stream it here:* https://louigi.bandcamp.com/album/281-the-bay-of-atlantis

*Word from the author:*

Extensive work went into this creation.

I wanted the tune to create a feeling that this is one solid composition,
not a soundtrack with distinct segments, but something rather like an ocean
which is in one instance is calm and in the other - furious. But still just
one single ocean.

To all of you travelers out there, and to those of us who find visiting
nonexistent places important.


*Technical specs:* Qtractor, Rakarrack, Carla, Kluppe, seq24 and a number
of LV2 plugins. Zyn is used, although a number of sounds came from other
sources.


-- 
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https://www.patreon.com/droning
https://louigiverona.com/
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Re: [LAD] Meeting at c-base the 3rd of January

[Louigi Verona]

I'll plan to be there

On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 9:57 AM, Daniel Swärd <ex...@kth.se> wrote:

> Hi.
>
> Tomorrow it's the monthly meeting at c-base again. I'll be in the c-base
> mainhall from 20:00.
>
> Things to discuss: Linux Audio Conference @ c-base
>
> Cheers.
>
> /Daniel
> ___
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> https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
>



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https://louigiverona.com/
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Re: [LAD] Forgive me, for I have sinned, or: toss your Macintosh, as fast and wide as you can.

[Louigi Verona]

This is a good point, Fons.

On Windows it is typical to bundle a program with stable libraries and
dependencies. Is this strategy thinkable on FLOSS systems?
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Re: [LAD] Forgive me, for I have sinned, or: toss your Macintosh, as fast and wide as you can.

[Louigi Verona]

I can see what you are saying, Paul. That your typical bug is not as
extensive as a lock-out of the whole machine. I still don't feel that it is
fair to then conclude that Macs should not be used (at all).

It is also possible that different systems will have different "typical
complete system breakdown" problems, which will make them not so easy to
compare. For instance, I buy an "Ubuntu-certified" machine. I come home and
try to install Ubuntu on it. It turns out, Wi-Fi does not work, because
this "certified" laptop requires special wifi drivers that Ubuntu does not
have. Where do you get the necessary wi-fi drivers? Of course, on the
Internet.

So, my computer sat there for a day like a brick, until I could come to my
office and connect through Ethernet.

Or, Ubuntu Karmic came with no Ethernet at all. And when I went to Ubuntu
IRC to ask what's up, one of the developers said "Who uses wired internet
these days anyway?" To my knowledge this was never fixed.

Additionally, Karmic had a video graphics problem and many users, including
myself, would have their system randomly freeze up, with all work lost.

So, I would say that these kind of experiences might also evoke a very
emotional response, especially when you loose your work, etc.

Is it comparable to what happened on a Mac? It could be. I do know that
Macs typically do not lock out people. I have many-many friends who are
using Macs for years and they have not had this problem.



To Thorsten:

*I have to note you have no statistics, either, but of course that doesn't
stop you. It's as if you would ask for a level of sobriety, factuality and
precision that you yourself refuse to offer, while pretending otherwise.*

Your rebuke would be fair, but I don't think I ever pretended I had
statistics at hand?

I did offer a thought that if there is a customer relationship, then the
software developer has more incentives and even obligations to make sure
that critical errors do not happen. I do see that in the areas I am
interested in this rule seems to work - I have mentioned video editors.

It would actually be interesting to get some sort of stats there. OpenShot
is universally known to be extremely volatile, for example. Each time I
tried it - it crashes within 5-10 mins of usage. I tried many versions,
including OpenShot 2. And then there is Windows Movie Maker, which reliably
does not crash.

But then the fact that we don't have stats for open source products
reliability kind of hints to the fact that no QA is done anyway. Commercial
companies typically have good stats on how reliable the program is. Because
QA is done and statistics are collected. So, FLOSS might frequently be at a
disadvantage.

I think that these considerations might be a good basis of saying that
reliability is not the result of releasing a program under GPL. This alone
will not magically produce more reliability. Testing, QA does. It's as
simple as that.


" Anyway, ignoring the mood set with hyperbole like "... for I have
sinned", going all pseudo-analytical instead, is rather tone-deaf."

Yeah, maybe. I feel strongly about this. I might have chosen to just shut
up, which is the course of action I typically take anyway. But on the other
hand, I think that this discussion is quite contained and we all try to be
polite and considerate.

I definitely am far from being always careful and non-emotional, although I
am trying to follow this path as much as possible!

















On Tue, Dec 5, 2017 at 6:30 PM, Paul Davis <p...@linuxaudiosystems.com>
wrote:

>
>
> On Tue, Dec 5, 2017 at 11:21 AM, Louigi Verona <louigi.ver...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I have reacted to the initial post because a person was claiming that
>> because *a problem* on a Mac happened - that means that everything which is
>> a Mac is now a problem. I have responded that this does not sound very
>> reasonable and that I can talk about *a problem* I had with Linux and apply
>> the same logic.
>>
>
> ​That's not really a fair summary. The *problem* which occured on a Mac
> potentially involved a complete lockout of the entire machine, for all
> time.​ It wasn't a bug in piece of software, it wasn't a crash during a
> live performance. It was the successful operation of a feature designed to
> take away all control of the machine from the person using it.
>
> It's entirely reasonably to say that you don't mind this feature, and
> consider its existence to be a net positive rather than a net negative.
>
> But you can't draw equivalence between this behaviour and some arbitrary
> "problem" on any other system.
>
> Exception: if it could be shown that Joern's experience was the result of
> a bug OR was easily reversible, then this would put the experience back
> into the same realm as other arbitrary system-specific "prob

Re: [LAD] Forgive me, for I have sinned, or: toss your Macintosh, as fast and wide as you can.

[Louigi Verona]

Microsoft and Apple are not the only examples of proprietary software, sir.
And proprietary software developer is not necessarily a "corporation".

In the end, it should not be a discussion of opinions (I agree with Louigi,
I don't agree with Louigi), it should be a discussion with facts and
statistics.

There are areas of floss vs proprietary where stability and reliability are
more or less the same. There are areas where proprietary clearly wins
(video editors would be an obvious example). Maybe there are cases where
floss is better that proprietary counterparts, although I have not seen a
class of such examples.


I have reacted to the initial post because a person was claiming that
because *a problem* on a Mac happened - that means that everything which is
a Mac is now a problem. I have responded that this does not sound very
reasonable and that I can talk about *a problem* I had with Linux and apply
the same logic.

I think this rebuke was appropriate. Making sweeping generalizations about
all Macs or about all proprietary software (or about floss, for that
matter) based on isolated incidents is not an approach that will deliver an
objective overview of the situation in the world of software.


And, if I want to be pedantic, the initial post is an off-topic post
anyway. It has little to do with LAU or LAD.






On Tue, Dec 5, 2017 at 4:13 PM, A. P. Garcia <a.phillip.gar...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> On Mon, Dec 4, 2017 at 6:46 AM, Louigi Verona <louigi.ver...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > I would argue that when there is no customer relationship, updates can be
> > more lax. I mean, I am working in the software industry. When someone is
> > paying you and you know they are using your system for actual results,
> you
> > are very careful with your updates.
>
> nope nope nope. I work in IT, and we got burned one too many times by
> applying patches on Microsoft's patch Tuesday, so we moved our patch
> night back a week. Let other people be Redmond's guinea pigs.
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>



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Re: [LAD] Forgive me, for I have sinned, or: toss your Macintosh, as fast and wide as you can.

[Louigi Verona]

I would argue that when there is no customer relationship, updates can be
more lax. I mean, I am working in the software industry. When someone is
paying you and you know they are using your system for actual results, you
are very careful with your updates.

On Mon, Dec 4, 2017 at 1:40 PM, Neil C Smith <neilcsmith@googlemail.com>
wrote:

>
> On Mon, Dec 4, 2017 at 12:31 PM Louigi Verona <louigi.ver...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> In my experience, an update can easily kill your system - and that
>> happened to me more than once.
>>
>
> Yes, and that happens everywhere, not specific to FLOSS.  This is about
> triaging when and which updates you apply to a working system.  And
> something for developer to keep in mind too - separation of concerns for
> security fixes, bug fixes and features.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Neil
> --
> Neil C Smith
> Artist & Technologist
> www.neilcsmith.net
>
> Praxis LIVE - hybrid visual IDE for creative coding - www.praxislive.org
>



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Re: [LAD] Forgive me, for I have sinned, or: toss your Macintosh, as fast and wide as you can.

[Louigi Verona]

In my experience, an update can easily kill your system - and that happened
to me more than once. And since I am not a customer, developers on the
other end must not worry about what happens. I mean, nobody owes the user
anything. "Fix it yourself, man". And it's fair.

On Mon, Dec 4, 2017 at 1:28 PM, Neil C Smith <neilcsmith@googlemail.com>
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Mon, Dec 4, 2017 at 12:12 PM Louigi Verona <louigi.ver...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Nothing in the concept of FLOSS promises floss software to actually be
>> more high quality or more stable. All it guarantees is that you can
>> distribute it and modify. So why would it magically be more stable than
>> proprietary?
>>
>
> No, I get you're serious - more amused by how different your experience is
> to my own - I'm sure I can crash a Mac by looking at them. ;-)  I'm not
> necessarily saying that there aren't problems, but that it's far less
> likely in my experience that a FLOSS system that's working solidly one day
> will behave differently the next.
>
> But actually there is something in FLOSS that I think does sometimes make
> for more stable software, if less featured - there's no money to be made in
> fixing bugs.
>
> Mind you, my usual response to anyone asking me why I work with FLOSS is
> that I got fed up of paying for software that doesn't work properly - we've
> got all our own shit that doesn't work properly, but at least I don't feel
> like I've been screwed over. ;-)
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Neil
> --
> Neil C Smith
> Artist & Technologist
> www.neilcsmith.net
>
> Praxis LIVE - hybrid visual IDE for creative coding - www.praxislive.org
>



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Re: [LAD] Forgive me, for I have sinned, or: toss your Macintosh, as fast and wide as you can.

[Louigi Verona]

I am very serious, Neil. I am glad that your personal experience is
different. You were able to build a system that works well for you. As a
person who works a lot with multimedia, I can tell you that a proprietary
video editor will be in most cases much more stable than a floss one. And
why shouldn't it? Teams are working on it 40 hours every week, all year
round.

Nothing in the concept of FLOSS promises floss software to actually be more
high quality or more stable. All it guarantees is that you can distribute
it and modify. So why would it magically be more stable than proprietary?

On Mon, Dec 4, 2017 at 1:09 PM, Neil C Smith <neilcsmith@googlemail.com>
wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, Dec 4, 2017 at 10:52 AM Louigi Verona <louigi.ver...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> And in my experience, proprietary systems are generally much more stable
>> than floss, and are less likely to fail suddenly and without warning.
>>
>
> ha ha ha ha ha ha ha  oh, wait .. you're serious?! ;-)
>
> There's a reason I use FLOSS, and it's because my personal experience is
> absolutely the opposite of this.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Neil
> --
> Neil C Smith
> Artist & Technologist
> www.neilcsmith.net
>
> Praxis LIVE - hybrid visual IDE for creative coding - www.praxislive.org
>



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Re: [LAD] Forgive me, for I have sinned, or: toss your Macintosh, as fast and wide as you can.

[Louigi Verona]

Proprietary software does not automatically mean vendor lock-in. A function
to block stolen laptops has nothing to do with vendor lock-in. It is a
useful feature that, frankly, I would love to have on Linux as well.

But also no, I did not compare free software and vendor lock-in. I compared
the problems generated by both of these situations. And that if on the
basis of a problem with proprietary software the OP seemed to be ok with
saying "don't" to the whole proprietary system (that works very-very well
99.9% of the time), then consistently applied such an approach should lead
him to say "no" to all of Linux as well.



On Mon, Dec 4, 2017 at 1:01 PM, David Runge <d...@sleepmap.de> wrote:

> On 2017-12-04 11:52:30 (+0100), Louigi Verona wrote:
> > You realize, of course, that this is probably a bug and that this was not
> > intended by Apple? You should also understand that millions of people are
> > using Macs everyday and their data doesn't get lost, right?
> Probably.
>
> But do you really want to compare vendor lock-in with your personal
> problems with free software?
> Apples and oranges.
>
> > Because, if not, I can supply many-many stories where I would loose data
> > because of stupid Linux machines, lose gigs because suddenly the music
> > software wouldn't start, although it did just yesterday. There are enough
> > problems that stem from software not having an owner that from it "being
> > controlled" by someone else. And then after bashing Linux, I can finish
> my
> > email with a dramatic "don't".
> >
> > Any system can fail, and it is never at the right time. And in my
> > experience, proprietary systems are generally much more stable than
> floss,
> > and are less likely to fail suddenly and without warning.
> >
> > For instance, when preparing for the Sonoj convention, I had Carla start
> > crashing on me and I could not complete music examples. I eventually had
> to
> > revert to FLStudio to make them.
> >
> > At the Sonoj Convention, 10 minutes before my dj set, Mixxx has deleted
> all
> > of my tracks library and I had to frantically search for a fix. I found a
> > workaround, but could not include a couple of new tunes into the set.
> >
> > Did I write a post blaming floss for that? No.
> Software has bugs. Your setup might as well.
> I had Ardour crash on me during a performance. Shit happens. I still use
> it ;-)
>
>
> Best,
> David
>
> --
> https://sleepmap.de
>



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Re: [LAD] Forgive me, for I have sinned, or: toss your Macintosh, as fast and wide as you can.

[Louigi Verona]

You realize, of course, that this is probably a bug and that this was not
intended by Apple? You should also understand that millions of people are
using Macs everyday and their data doesn't get lost, right?

Because, if not, I can supply many-many stories where I would loose data
because of stupid Linux machines, lose gigs because suddenly the music
software wouldn't start, although it did just yesterday. There are enough
problems that stem from software not having an owner that from it "being
controlled" by someone else. And then after bashing Linux, I can finish my
email with a dramatic "don't".

Any system can fail, and it is never at the right time. And in my
experience, proprietary systems are generally much more stable than floss,
and are less likely to fail suddenly and without warning.

For instance, when preparing for the Sonoj convention, I had Carla start
crashing on me and I could not complete music examples. I eventually had to
revert to FLStudio to make them.

At the Sonoj Convention, 10 minutes before my dj set, Mixxx has deleted all
of my tracks library and I had to frantically search for a fix. I found a
workaround, but could not include a couple of new tunes into the set.

Did I write a post blaming floss for that? No.






On Mon, Dec 4, 2017 at 11:40 AM, Albert Graef <aggr...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Dec 4, 2017 at 10:37 AM, Jörn Nettingsmeier <
> netti...@stackingdwarves.net> wrote:
>
>> Long story short: don't.
>
>
> Holy cow.
>
> I like funny war stories like these. Of course it's only funny if you're
> not bitten yourself. :( I feel with you.
>
> At least you got a 2013 MB which is still half-decent hardware compared to
> the fancy shiny thingies they sell for premium prices these days. Where you
> can gain root without a password and need a USB-C dongle of substantial
> size to connect to just about *any* kind of useful, non-snowflake
> peripheral. Well, at least it connects to your power supply, isn't that
> great? :)
>
> Take care,
> Albert
>
> --
> Dr. Albert Gr"af
> Computer Music Research Group, JGU Mainz, Germany
> Email:  aggr...@gmail.com
> WWW:https://plus.google.com/+AlbertGraef
>
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Re: [LAD] https for linuxaudio.org

[Louigi Verona]

I will joke carelessly about security all I want, sir. Why? Because jokes
are fun.

Having said that, I can vouch for the let's encrypt tool. Used it myself,
very easy to set up.

On Nov 22, 2017 10:23, "Gordonjcp"  wrote:

> On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 11:01:07AM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > As a user of Arch and various music related apps, please, please,
> > please!
> >
> > I can report that Let's Encrypt is very easy to use. The cli tool
> > certbot handles things very nicely, and the docs are easy to follow.
> > This should not be hard to implement.
>
> I'm using Let's Encrypt on https://rangerovers.pub and it's been pretty
> hassle-free.  I had minor issues at the start because some people were
> visiting from the old domain name, but nothing insurmountable.
>
> If you have anything where you accept user input on your website (the
> obvious case being a username and password, but even a search box) then
> you should absolutely be using HTTPS, right now.
>
> --
> Gordonjcp
>
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Re: [LAD] https for linuxaudio.org

[Louigi Verona]

Yeah, more security and privacy, because Linux Audio packages are
constantly attacked by enemies :D

On Nov 21, 2017 06:44, "Ralf Mardorf"  wrote:

> On Tue, 21 Nov 2017 02:54:14 +0100, David Runge wrote:
> >Would it be possible to implement letsencrypt for linuxaudio.org and
> >all of its subdomains?
> >This would greatly improve the security of the packages hosted there
> >(or rather their transfer from the server to the build machine) and
> >help for said packages not to be dropped, as more and more distros try
> >to switch to more reliable and authenticatable (is that a word?)
> >upstreams.
>
> Hi,
>
> for security reasons developers should consider to provide signed
> checksums, as fortunately e.g.
> https://www.kernel.org/category/signatures.html does. This was
> discussed at e.g. Arch general.
>
> >Additionally, there is the benefit of raising privacy for users of all
> >things hosted on linuxaudio.org.
>
> Not that much, since even when additionally using TOR, privacy isn't
> ensured without exceptions,
> https://www.torproject.org/docs/faq.html.en#AttacksOnOnionRouting .
>
> Regards,
> Ralf
>
> --
> $ pacman -Q linux{,-rt{,-cornflower,-pussytoes}}|awk '{print $2}'
> 4.14-2
> 4.13.13_rt5-1
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[LAD] Music for programming

[Louigi Verona]

Hey everyone!

I have created a YouTube channel where I am creating playlists of ambient
music. As many of you have told me that they enjoy listening to "droning"
and other of my ambient creations during work, I have created "Music for
programming" mixes.

Some of them might feature just one tune, some feature several tunes.

Take your pick - and subscribe!

The Ambient Channel
<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_niY_HzHQVRtjZLRHNyQfA>





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Re: [LAD] LAC2017 Photos

[Louigi Verona]

Rui, your photos made me regret even more that I was not there :)

On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 9:21 PM, Marc Groenewegen <marc.din...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Thanks for the lousy photos Rui! ;-) They're a great overview, as always.
>
> Marc
>
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Re: [LAD] youtube blocks LAC 2017 May 18 AM

[Louigi Verona]

Really great job on the streaming and the IRC. Those of us present at LAC
virtually really had a blast!

On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 3:04 PM, Thomas Cipierre <thomas.cipie...@hotmail.fr
> wrote:

> Dear LAC2017,
>
> I’m part of the LAC2017 committee, and was nearly all the time involved in
> the IRC #LAC2017 freenode channel as tcUJM (except one chairing session).
>
> For those who were there, I already replied that there was actually a real
> copyright problem, since Thierry indeed used copyrighted material during
> his talk. However, he has the right to do so, having all the documents
> needed on INA (standing for Institut National de l’Audiovisuel – which
> could be translated to Audiovisual National Institute) material, so we are
> currently solving this problem.
>
> Philippe, our LAC streaming technician is working onto this – but he needs
> some more time to edit videos, since he is needed on a lot of other
> projects in our university.
>
> We are sorry for the temporary side-effect on Harry’s brilliant talk.
>
> Thanks to all of you, I was thrilled being involved in this LAC and
> meeting several of you. I definitely look forward to seeing you again on
> forums, mailing lists and in future projects.
>
> All the best,
>
> Thomas CIPIERRE
> Phd. Student at Jean Monnet University (Saint-Étienne)
>
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Re: [LAD] youtube blocks LAC 2017 May 18 AM

[Louigi Verona]

YouTube does act on specific right holders complaints. I know this as a
fact. You can go to any video and complain. Many YT vbloggers, including
quite prominent ones, complain.

Explanation from the Nostalgia Critic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVqFAMOtwaI

On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 11:22 AM, IOhannes m zmoelnig <zmoel...@iem.at>
wrote:

> On 2017-05-21 20:50, Louigi Verona wrote:
> > No, I mean there seems to be an owner of the content (an Institute) that
> is
> > claiming copyright. But I am not sure how this works. YT will have
> specific
> > phrases for specific block reasons.
>
> i don't think so.
> usually youtube does not act on specific claims by the copyright
> holders, but rather proactively searches for potential copyright
> violations (via "Content ID") and blocks the content until any issues
> are sorted out.
>
> i've had videos of 14 year old pianists playing beethoven being blocked,
> because ContentID thought that that was actually a recording by Yehudi
> Menuhin. (sometimes they *are* right though)
>
>
> fgasmdr
> IOhannes
>
>
>
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Re: [LAD] youtube blocks LAC 2017 May 18 AM

[Louigi Verona]

"This video contains content from INA - Institut National de l'Audiovisuel,
who has blocked it on copyright grounds."

So I believe this was a complaint.

Which is interesting. You started the thread by blaming a "crappy company",
but it turns out the complaint was filed by a National Institute. But
Google gets the blame :)

While in IRC, I actually heard someone mentioned copyrighted material in
the stream.

It is a pity that they did not contact LAC organizers to resolve the matter
and just used YouTube tools for that. But then each one of us would feel
differently when it is their content being used without permission.

I do hope this matter gets resolved.







On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 8:50 PM, Louigi Verona <louigi.ver...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> No, I mean there seems to be an owner of the content (an Institute) that
> is claiming copyright. But I am not sure how this works. YT will have
> specific phrases for specific block reasons.
>
> On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 8:48 PM, Cedric Roux <s...@free.fr> wrote:
>
>> it's to inform people from LAC who may want to
>> act on it (contact youtube, put the videos somewhere
>> else)
>>
>> On 05/21/2017 08:47 PM, Louigi Verona wrote:
>>
>>> Is this an actual complaint?
>>>
>>> On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 8:46 PM, Cedric Roux <s...@free.fr
>>> <mailto:s...@free.fr>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Oh my, I forgot the URL:
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1IzbVBSBZ4
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1IzbVBSBZ4>
>>>
>>> On 05/21/2017 08:42 PM, Louigi Verona wrote:
>>>
>>> Hey Cedric!
>>>
>>> Any other details, apart from the rant at Google and the world?
>>> :)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 6:54 PM, Cedric Roux <s...@free.fr
>>> <mailto:s...@free.fr>
>>> <mailto:s...@free.fr <mailto:s...@free.fr>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> To whom it may concern...
>>>
>>> That's what happens when you use crappy service
>>> by crappy private company obsessed by crappy copyrights.
>>>
>>> crap world
>>> ___
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>>> Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org
>>> <mailto:Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org>
>>>         <mailto:Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org
>>> <mailto:Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org>>
>>> http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
>>> <http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev>
>>> <http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
>>> <http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Louigi Verona
>>> https://www.patreon.com/droning <https://www.patreon.com/droning
>>> >
>>> https://louigiverona.com/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Louigi Verona
>>> https://www.patreon.com/droning
>>> https://louigiverona.com/
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Louigi Verona
> https://www.patreon.com/droning
> https://louigiverona.com/
>



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Re: [LAD] youtube blocks LAC 2017 May 18 AM

[Louigi Verona]

No, I mean there seems to be an owner of the content (an Institute) that is
claiming copyright. But I am not sure how this works. YT will have specific
phrases for specific block reasons.

On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 8:48 PM, Cedric Roux <s...@free.fr> wrote:

> it's to inform people from LAC who may want to
> act on it (contact youtube, put the videos somewhere
> else)
>
> On 05/21/2017 08:47 PM, Louigi Verona wrote:
>
>> Is this an actual complaint?
>>
>> On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 8:46 PM, Cedric Roux <s...@free.fr
>> <mailto:s...@free.fr>> wrote:
>>
>> Oh my, I forgot the URL:
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1IzbVBSBZ4
>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1IzbVBSBZ4>
>>
>> On 05/21/2017 08:42 PM, Louigi Verona wrote:
>>
>> Hey Cedric!
>>
>> Any other details, apart from the rant at Google and the world? :)
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 6:54 PM, Cedric Roux <s...@free.fr
>> <mailto:s...@free.fr>
>> <mailto:s...@free.fr <mailto:s...@free.fr>>> wrote:
>>
>> To whom it may concern...
>>
>> That's what happens when you use crappy service
>> by crappy private company obsessed by crappy copyrights.
>>
>> crap world
>> ___
>> Linux-audio-dev mailing list
>> Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org
>> <mailto:Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org>
>> <mailto:Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org
>> <mailto:Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org>>
>> http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
>> <http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev>
>> <http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
>> <http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Louigi Verona
>> https://www.patreon.com/droning <https://www.patreon.com/droning>
>> https://louigiverona.com/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Louigi Verona
>> https://www.patreon.com/droning
>> https://louigiverona.com/
>>
>
>


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Re: [LAD] youtube blocks LAC 2017 May 18 AM

[Louigi Verona]

Is this an actual complaint?

On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 8:46 PM, Cedric Roux <s...@free.fr> wrote:

> Oh my, I forgot the URL:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1IzbVBSBZ4
>
> On 05/21/2017 08:42 PM, Louigi Verona wrote:
>
>> Hey Cedric!
>>
>> Any other details, apart from the rant at Google and the world? :)
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 6:54 PM, Cedric Roux <s...@free.fr
>> <mailto:s...@free.fr>> wrote:
>>
>> To whom it may concern...
>>
>> That's what happens when you use crappy service
>> by crappy private company obsessed by crappy copyrights.
>>
>> crap world
>> ___
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>> Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org
>> <mailto:Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org>
>> http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
>> <http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Louigi Verona
>> https://www.patreon.com/droning
>> https://louigiverona.com/
>>
>
>


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Re: [LAD] youtube blocks LAC 2017 May 18 AM

[Louigi Verona]

Hey Cedric!

Any other details, apart from the rant at Google and the world? :)



On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 6:54 PM, Cedric Roux <s...@free.fr> wrote:

> To whom it may concern...
>
> That's what happens when you use crappy service
> by crappy private company obsessed by crappy copyrights.
>
> crap world
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Re: [LAD] aBLETON lINK

[Louigi Verona]

Paul, not to derail the conversation, but can you give us a little detail
on what kind of problems happen in scenarios outside of the desktop
environment? I am just curious.

On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 5:52 PM, Markus Seeber <
markus.see...@spectralbird.de> wrote:

> On 09/23/2016 05:13 PM, Paul Davis wrote:
> > The last time I was working with such a person was deeply illustrative: a
> > small technology company doing audio on raspberry pi and beagle boards.
> > Using JACK. Having an insanely hard time even getting it work. Even with
> me
> > sitting in with them. Their experience is common. Maybe even the norm. We
> > never targetted JACK for such uses (focusing on desktop scenarios).
> > Developers think it is cool, was developed on the same OS as they are
> > running their new embedded platforms - awesome! Except ... not so much.
> >
> Exactly what I have experienced. It is all well for prototypes and for
> testing out stuff,
> but when things become serious, it all falls apart and people may notice,
> that jack is not even a good fit for their usecase which may be better fit
> by a small custom application.
>
> Also people have a hard time understanding even the "basic" concepts,
> for various reasons.
>
> I have seen someone trying to build a simple processing chain for
> streaming audio
> and setting up a proprietary application as a JACK client.
> That was interesting to watch. It took quite some time for him to learn
> how to even build, install and use JACK
> in a meaningful way, even with me providing some help. In the end it
> worked out for testing
> and evaluation purposes but I'd never seriously consider that ready for
> production usage.
>
> This may sound harsh, but this stuff is simply not a nice choice for
> mainstream production use
> and so are many things in the LAU universe.
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Re: [LAD] aBLETON lINK

[Louigi Verona]

"IMO anyone who doesn't know about JACK and claims to be a professional
audio developer has dubious credentials."

I think this is an unfounded statement. Many professional audio developers
work on Windows with ASIO
and are both professional and some of them definitely unaware of JACK.

"Keep in mind that they have explicitly stated that Ableton Live will NEVER
run on Linux."

Can you please link to this statement?



On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 1:00 PM, Patrick Shirkey <pshir...@boosthardware.com
> wrote:

>
> > On Thu, 2016-09-22 at 19:58 +0200, Robin Gareus wrote:
> >> That's pretty cool IMHO and I wish more companies would do that!
> >>
> >> Also coming up with a protocol is the easier part. Documenting it,
> >> pushing it out to users, gaining traction in the industry etc is the
> >> hard part.
> >
> > I agree with this. This thread has been a little bit agressive and I
> > don't really understand why.
> >
> > From my point of view, integration with AL will probably have
> > interesting side effects among all musical applications. Imagine
> > jam/performance sessions with musicians combining many different DAWs
> > and loopers running on multiple platforms.
> >
> > The whole point of such a protocol as they've developed it is to
> > increase creativity and to open up possibilities for collaboration and
> > new musical ideas. Isn't that one of the reasons we like to hangout on
> > mailing lists like this one?
> >
>
> Some us us disagree that this IS the "whole point" of Link.
>
> IMO anyone who doesn't know about JACK and claims to be a professional
> audio developer has dubious credentials. In addition there are other
> existing API's as Tito has explained that predate Link.
>
> Given the fractured history that Ableton has with Open Source development
> and Linux support it should not come as a surprise to anyone on this list
> that there is some disagreement over the validity of their release process
> / marketing campaign.
>
> I suppose that their marketing department has decided that Linux
> Developers/Users don't represent a big enough share of the market to
> justify committing more resources to the platform.
>
> However JACK also runs on the other two main platforms so what is their
> rational behind completely ignoring it altogether while committing
> resources to creating a competing API?
>
> Keep in mind that they have explicitly stated that Ableton Live will NEVER
> run on Linux. It seems a bit hypocritical to me that highly regarded
> people from this community are proposing to add support for the new
> protocol and at the same time questioning why there is (still) antagonism
> towards Ableton.
>
> Other proprietary companies have no problems releasing their software to
> run on Linux. For example Flame (Autodesk) runs perfectly fine on Linux as
> does Vmware, Oracle, etc...  Even the Tesla cars are running Linux for
> their multimedia systems.  Steam has their own Linux Distribution. It's
> not like it there is no precedence for Ableton to release a binary only
> Linux port.  More so if they genuinely want Linux Audio Developers to
> support their profit margins and integrate our software/platform with
> their product(s) at our expense/time/resources.
>
> Of course everyone is free to do what they want but don't try to pretend
> that it's a shock that some of us are not enthused about this new product.
> That comes across as lack of insight or outright BS.
>
>
>
> --
> Patrick Shirkey
> Boost Hardware Ltd
>
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Re: [LAD] aBLETON lINK

[Louigi Verona]

Thanks, Paul and Rui, very interesting info.

On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 5:08 PM, Paul Davis <p...@linuxaudiosystems.com>
wrote:

>
>
> On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 10:03 AM, Rui Nuno Capela <rn...@rncbc.org> wrote:
>
>>  [... ]
>> just my 2eur.
>>
>
> with real world exchange rates based on expertise and wisdom, i'd say
> that's about US$1M's worth of insight.
>
>
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Re: [LAD] [LAU] [LAC-team] After LAC is before LAC

[Louigi Verona]

Not too early to hang around ;)

On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 10:35 PM, Albert Graef <aggr...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 10:05 PM, Louigi Verona <louigi.ver...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Just to make sure, I have created an IRC channel #lac2017, so join in!
>
>
> A bit early, I'd say. ;-) But I'm in touch with Laurent Pottier (from JMU)
> and Yann Orlarey (from Grame) on this, so expect Laurent's proposal on
> lac-team soon.
>
> Albert
>
> --
> Dr. Albert Gr"af
> Computer Music Research Group, JGU Mainz, Germany
> Email:  aggr...@gmail.com
> WWW:https://plus.google.com/+AlbertGraef
>



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Re: [LAD] [LAU] [LAC-team] After LAC is before LAC

[Louigi Verona]

Hey everyone!

Just to make sure, I have created an IRC channel #lac2017, so join in!

On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 9:37 PM, Frank Neumann <beachn...@web.de> wrote:

>
> Hi all,
>
> > miniLAC 2016 @ Berlin is history, so start looking forward to LAC 2017 @
> > St. Etienne! :)
>
> Am I late for the party? I sure am! But anyway I'd like to share a few
> pictures
> I took during miniLAC2016 in Berlin, find them here:
> http://linuxaudio.de/miniLAC2016/
> (I also added these to the http://minilac.linuxaudio.org/index.php/Photos
> Wiki page).
>
> As others said before, big kudos to dave, riot, excds and all the other
> folks for pulling
> this off in spite of scarce resources. I really enjoyed it, and it was
> feeling good
> to see "the posse" again :-).
>
> Phew..still in time before the Wiki gets archived :-).
>
> Greetings,
> Frank
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Re: [LAD] [LAU] LAC is dead! Long live miniLAC!

[Louigi Verona]

Hello David!

Thank you very much for your announcement!

Because for many people it means arranging transport and housing, can you
say how certain these plans are? For instance, I see no announcement on
c-base website anywhere about this.

I know organizing is a super tough thing, just want to make sure there is
no misunderstanding and this announcement
should be considered a formal invitation to the event.



Sincerely,
Louigi.






On Wed, Feb 3, 2016 at 9:04 PM, David Runge <d...@sleepmap.de> wrote:

> Hello Linux Audio Community!
>
> This is the announcement you have been waiting for.
>
> We've come to the conclusion that doing a full LAC at the announced date is
> impossible, as our sponsoring setup didn't work out, therefore we have
> decided
> to go ahead with a miniLAC instead.
>
> Since we have already planned a lot of stuff, we thought it would be a
> shame to
> let all the work go to waste, so we asked a few people whether they'd be
> interested in a more compact and reduced conference program.
>
> What we can currently offer with the resources available are:
>   * a lecture track
>   * workshop tracks (one of which will use the c-base soundlab)
>   * live audio sessions
>   * hacking sessions
>   * tours around interesting berlin places
>   * linux audio nights
>
> This  miniature version of a Linux Audio Conference is still planned to
> take
> place during the (kind of) announced date: 8.-10. April 2016.  The
> location is
> now set:
> c-base, the spacestation below Berlin Mitte (http://c-base.org)
>
> Our plan is to start off on Friday with a meet-and-greet evening at c-base,
> where we will have an open stage for anyone who wants to connect their
> devices.
>
> Since we don't have the originally intended resources, we will have to
> limit
> attendance to around 150 participants.
>
> Additionally, if there is interest for this (especially for people arriving
> earlier), we'll try to organize optional visits to other Berlin locations
> on
> Friday 8. April.
>
> Please create an account on our wiki, to be able to set things up with us:
> http://frab.linuxaudio.org (will later move on to
> http://minilac.linuxaudio.org).
> The wiki is still a work in progress, but should feature all necessary
> information by the end of the week.
>
> To satisfy your academic paper skills, we intend to support another crew
> that
> could organize a second conference part at the FrosCon 2016
> (http://www.froscon.de/), which is happening in Bonn 20th and 21st of
> August.
> Here is a link to our issue concerning this topic on Github:
> https://github.com/linux-audio-berlin/LAC16/issues/30
>
> We hope to see you at the miniLAC16!
>
> Cheers,
> miniLAC16 Orga team
>
>
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Re: [LAD] User eXperience in Linux Audio

[Louigi Verona]

-audio-dev

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Re: [LAD] User eXperience in Linux Audio

[Louigi Verona]

Sure. This was only an example. It could have been any other feature or GUI
element.

On Wed, Apr 22, 2015 at 3:43 PM, Paul Davis p...@linuxaudiosystems.com
wrote:



 On Wed, Apr 22, 2015 at 6:05 AM, Louigi Verona louigi.ver...@gmail.com
 wrote:


 Linux Audio packages are plagued by reasons that are relevant to the
 developer, but which should be irrelevant to the user.
 I don't care if dev thinks knobs are a bad idea, I want a knob and not a
 text field, because it is easier to use on stage.
 I don't care if dev has a technical reason to have a text field instead
 of a knob. I need a knob, because it is easier to use on stage.


 Just one little note here. Back in 2001, I read an article in the US
 Keyboard magazine that made a strong case for stopping the use of
 skuomorphic GUIs (knobs etc) for a variety of reasons. It wasn't written by
 a software developer, but a musician. He was bemoaning how limited GUIs for
 audio software were because of their attempt to present things that look
 like hardware controls.

 So mileage may vary here. There are users with very different workflows,
 ideas, needs and backgrounds, and some of them don't want knobs. They could
 of course be a tiny minority and developers might be better off ignoring
 them. But it isn't true that text fields = developer centric, knobs =
 user centric.





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Re: [LAD] User eXperience in Linux Audio

[Louigi Verona]

)

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Re: [LAD] [LAU] lac2015 photo gallery videos

[Louigi Verona]

Pity I could not go this year, but I see you guys had a great time!

On Tue, Apr 14, 2015 at 10:52 AM, Rui Nuno Capela rui.cap...@gmail.com
wrote:

 hi all,

 every year the post-lac nostalgic syndrome gets its toll...

 all the photos taken by this lousy photo-shooter of yours during the
 lac2015@jgu-mainz are now online:
   http://www.rncbc.org/lac2015

 the even lousier videos taken from some of the linux sound night live acts
 are also delivered unedited and online:
   http://www.youtube.com/user/rncbchannel

 enjoy
 --
 rncbc aka. Rui Nuno Capela
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Re: [LAD] [LAU] zitaretuner

[Louigi Verona]

Even if someone some day writes a
perfectly working version lv2 version of at1 they won't even bother
to try it.

Not necessarily true.

On Sat, Oct 11, 2014 at 11:09 PM, Fons Adriaensen f...@linuxaudio.org
wrote:

 On Sat, Oct 11, 2014 at 08:08:10PM +0200, Jeremy Jongepier wrote:

  You can partly blame me, I initially packaged this plugin for KXStudio
  which made it more accessible for users. I should have a) checked the
  source better and b) tested the resulting binary better as it doesn't
  remotely do the job the way Zita-AT1 does. Partial comfort might be that
  others probably recognized the flaws too and the package didn't survive
  time. I'll see what I can do to have the remaining packages and source
  code removed.

 OK, thanks.

 What remains (and I don't blame you for that), is a bunch of users
 believing that zita-*** is crap. Even if someone some day writes a
 perfectly working version lv2 version of at1 they won't even bother
 to try it.

  As for the violation of the license, don't give in to the Jeff Glatt's
  of this world.

 I won't. Judging from hist posts on LM he must be a complete idiot.

 Ciao,

 --
 FA

 A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia.
 It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris
 and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow)

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Re: [LAD] [LAU] Linux Audio Conference 2015?

[Louigi Verona]

Great news!

On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 1:26 PM, Giso Grimm gg3...@vegri.net wrote:

 On 07/10/14 12:20, Albert Graef wrote:
  Our beloved Linux Audio Conference (LAC) will take place at the
 
Johannes Gutenberg University (JGU) in Mainz (Germany)
 
from Thu, April 9 to Sun, April 12 2015
 

 Thanks a lot! This is good news!


 Giso
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Re: [LAD] Experience driven design and Linux Audio

[Louigi Verona]

Discussion often focuses on thinking for the user or about users that
don't want to learn.

I don't think that this is what the guy in the video was talking about. And
this is certainly not what I mean when talking about usability of Linux
software.

Experience-driven design, as I understood him, is about convenience and
being able to make a tool that is easy to use. But easy to use does not
mean dumb usage. It rather means pleasant to use.

There is a huge difference between having options in a text file that you
have to edit or having them in a GUI. And the difference is not in having
to learn - most users know how to edit a text file. The difference is in
convenience. There is an inherent difference between going to a folder,
locating a config text file and editing it and just seeing all options laid
out in a GUI, right within the program.

GUI does not have to dumb you down. It economizes your time and effort by
showing you all the options and letting you tweak them more quickly and get
the information from your options in a more pleasant way. Having a GUI does
not mean reducing your options.

*---*

As an example, when I need to write using a text field the amount of delay
in milliseconds, this is not advanced. This just takes up my time,
because I need to figure out the amount of ms required for my bpm and then
input numbers into the field with a keyboard.

One can, of course, argue, that you can learn the formula, but this is
arbitrary. As Harry very correctly pointed out, this has little to do with
composing.

If instead of inputting numbers I get a knob - this is better. But if I get
a knob that will tweak delay time in actual bpm-multiple values - this will
be much more pleasant. Not because I am not able to learn, but because
this helps me get my task done faster.

One can, of course, argue that having ms allows you more functionality
and this is where the argument often lies - that Linux software allows you
more options. But in my view the price of implementing those options (and
not implementing easy to use GUI) far outweighs the actual need of those
options. How many times in your life have you needed to set delay time to
like 123.7863218 ms or other weird time?

---

So I think a developer should ask himself - would he want his software to
look better and to have a GUI that would help users get things done faster
and in a more pleasant manner? If yes, but he has no time - sure, it is
clear. If no - then this is a different position altogether. And this then
has nothing to do with learning or dumb users.



Louigi.




On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 5:20 PM, Paul Davis p...@linuxaudiosystems.com
wrote:



 On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 9:01 AM, Florian Paul Schmidt mista.ta...@gmx.net
 wrote:


 The important point was though that left to their own devices the
 non-enthusiasts will be slaughtered by the software they use and maybe
 we have a responsibility to protect them from themselves.


 slaughter is perhaps a strong term.

 perhaps a more nuanced description might run something like this (taking a
 little inspiration from the video):

 creating and maintaining **consumer** software with a very good user
 experience is expensive (relative to other tasks that people do) and takes
 a significant amount of time. therefore the creation and maintainance of
 this sort of software requires resources that are not clearly available to
 most open source efforts. the proprietary software that manages to do this
 is influenced at some level by where its creators and maintainers get their
 income from, and the development of the free model used in particular by
 google points in a direction where the software must allow/empower/enable
 behaviour by the software developers that are not in the users' best
 interest (e.g. selling data about the users).


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Re: [LAD] Experience driven design and Linux Audio

[Louigi Verona]

Hey Paul,

I agree with most of what you say, you are correct in pointing out that the
situation is more nuanced.

until you need to use a delay to compensate for a block size delay that
you known in samples :)

Wanted to comment on this. Right. You might want to do that. But, as I
said, the price of this one very rarely required feature, in my opinion, is
too high. Or else delay plugin was generally understood to be a very
different tool on Linux in general. In fact, most LADSPA delay plugins use
ms. There is an obvious cultural disconnect here :)

the cost is that (a) the user learns very little about the underlying
concepts of the application (b) you must hide a set of options that would
just confuse first time usage but that may be critical one month in (I've
watched my son face this curve with garageband, which is partly why he no
longer uses it and is on Live instead).

Point taken. However, I would like my point to be underlined as well - I am
saying that even in an application that has a steep learning curve there
are ways to do it even harder or more pleasant. I mean, Zyn has lots of
options. They could've been just a text file.



Also, I would like to say this - bottom line is that most apps on Linux are
not known for ease of use. And that has a systematic cause, no doubt about
it. In my view the cause is that this is mostly software done for oneself
rather than for the audience. Additionally, GUI takes a lot of time to
develop and Linux hobbyists are generally developers, not designers. That's
it, really.




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Re: [LAD] Experience driven design and Linux Audio

[Louigi Verona]

I thought the 'trickle down technology' analogy was a little questionable,
but I find a lot in his talk that resonates with me as a user.

I would like to react, but I will probably record a podcast lil later.

On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 10:10 PM, Fons Adriaensen f...@linuxaudio.org
wrote:

 On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 02:58:23PM +0100, Harry van Haaren wrote:

  Should we improve experience for users?
  Should we design experience driven open software?
  Should we forward the UX of Linux Audio to the age of experiences?

 Well, I watched the video until the end, and the only way to
 avoid this having been a waste of my time seems to react to
 it. Balkan's talk itself is an example of 'experience driven
 design'. It goes down easily as it should according to his
 own theories, but once you start thinking a bit about what
 he says you discover it's only a thin layer of sugar around
 nothing. Take the way he compares 'trickle down ecomony'
 with 'trickle down technology'. A vague similarity that is
 supposed to imply something. But does it ? If there is
 really any meaning to this I must be too stupid to grok it.

 There is actually a similarity, but not the one he intended,
 between a trickle down economy and the type of world he seems
 to dream about: one consisting of a majority of dumb 'users'
 and an elite of CEO's having great 'design' ideas (remember,
 design has to be driven from the top), and in between a third
 layer, just above the unwashed masses of users, of 'developers
 who need to be just smart enough to realise the bright ideas
 of their CEO.

 That division may even de facto exist, I'm not going to
 dispute that. But I'm not going to help make it worse, and
 I'll add why: there's one significant difference between
 the users who expect everything (including thinking) to be
 done for them, and those who are prepared to learn: the
 latter will say 'thank you'.


 --
 FA

 A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia.
 It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris
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Re: [LAD] lac2014 photo gallery

[Louigi Verona]

I loved photo with Jeremy, where he is standing in the street. Beautiful
portrait!


On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 12:40 AM, Cedric Roux s...@free.fr wrote:

 On 05/06/2014 06:46 PM, Rui Nuno Capela wrote:

 howdy,

 still playing catch-up with the post-lac traumatic syndrome...

 all those unedited photos that were taken by me during the
 lac2014@zkm-karlsruhe, are now online:
http://www.rncbc.org/lac2014

 i suck at photography and it shows :)

 cheers


 http://www.rncbc.org/lac2014/thumb/medium/P1060311.JPG

 I don't understand the DrumGizmo team... with so many arms
 you don't need a drum machine!

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Re: [LAD] Releasing source code is not enough, I think...

[Louigi Verona]

I kinda knew this would turn into an ideological debate.

As a user and not a developer, I would like to point out that the problem
with compilation is not that it is not rocket science, but that it is a
tedious process that not all users want to go through even if they know how
to do it.

Back in my days of being new to GNU/Linux I compiled a lot of software and
even when being keenly interested in doing that I remember being very
frustrated as I can rarely recall an occasion when it just worked.

That means that if you do not have all the tools and dependencies, you know
as a fact that installing this application will take unpredictable amount
of time. Once it'll take you 2 minutes, another it can take up to a day,
which had happened to me.
Which is why I personally rely more on ppa's nowadays as I am a little bit
tired of compiling things. There are some programs that I never could
compile at all, for one reason or another.

So, this has very little to do with learning or intelligence. This has to
do with priorities. If a person's priority is to develop and not use, then
sure. If a person's main goal is to use GNU/Linux software, then his
priority would be to get it running, not dive each time into the
intricacies of how things work on code level.

Not to mention, fellas, that there is not much learning value in compiling
anyway. I mean, sometimes you just don't have all the dependencies and
after you go through the trouble of getting almost all of it, some library
requires you to have a different kernel version and there's that.

And in conclusion, I'd like to note that Filipe's suggestion is just that.
If you do not agree - you won't use his methods and will continue to
release sources. Those who agree will try out his way. So I see no problem
here.

L.V.
*http://www.louigiverona.ru/ http://www.louigiverona.ru/*
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Re: [LAD] OT: Bitwig beta for Linux reviewed

[Louigi Verona]

LMMS can be used to make any type of music, I do not see anything in the
software that limits it to either techno or just playing around. I have
made several genres with it and people like those tunes and don't find them
to be just playing around. LMMS has got automation of any parameter,
great piano roll. It's only serious problem is that it supports only LADSPA
plugins and doing music without being able to add more sophisticated things
like good reverb and other effects is uninspiring.
You might not like UI, sure, but please don't say that LMMS (or FL Studio
for that matter) is only good for techno, because this is a ridiculous
accusation, really.

Giada is a dj tool. I mentioned it only to explain that loop sync is
possible on Linux easily.

I tried EnergyXT, I did not like it at all, very raw software, I am
surprised anyone dares to ask money for it. However, to be fair, I tried
the demo version only.

Will Bitwig be released? Will it be satisfactory? I don't know. But I just
object to you saying that there is any special hype and that people are
saying Bitwig will solve all problems.
On Mar 9, 2013 8:05 PM, Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote:

 On Sat, 2013-03-09 at 07:56 +0300, Louigi Verona wrote:
  Giada plays fine in sync. So does lmms. Test it yourself. I don't
  think an all-in-one sequencer needs to use jack transport.

 Correct, an all-in-one solution, sequencer + hard disk recorder doesn't
 need jack-transport, but so I can't use Qtractor + Ardour 2 together.
 Ardor 3 doesn't fit to my needs. I never tested Giada, it doesn't look
 very promising, but I tested LMMS. LMMS is completely unusable for my
 needs. Personally I don't know any musician using such software on any
 OS, I know this kind of thing from techno consumers, who play a little
 bit with their laptops.

  As for muting individual clips, a little weird requirement, IMHO. In
  fl studio you also can't mute individual clips and I don't ever
  remember needing that in all the 15 years I've done music.

 It's a very important feature available by all Cubase versions for the
 Atari (and for Windows) I know.

  Bitwig looks like a normal sequencer, which looks like smth special
  only in comparison to what we don't have on linux . I did not have
  YouTube blocked and I saw the demo. It looks what you would expect
  from a project that was done commercially, I see nothing that would
  suggest it is claimed it solves 'all the problems'. It solves many
  problems for ppl like me who just want an all-in-one sequencer, where
  the project is saved not by scripts, but by pressing one button.

 Did you test energyXT? I never tested it, but years ago I heard that
 people like it. Perhaps it already does provide what you want.

  So to me your criticism looks like pointing out the lack of some weird
  feature you personally want and which none of the software I know on
  windows even has, and concluding bitwig is a myth.

 No, regarding to the mute-able tracks, Bitwig perhaps does provide them.
 I'm missing it for the FLOSS Linux software I'm using.

 I'm just sceptic about the hype of Bitwig. At the moment it's not
 available and we read the report, it has got technical issues. VST and
 AU seems to be the dominating plugin protocols. What is about LADSPA and
 DSSI?

 I don't understand the Jack related thing. Isn't it possible to use the
 ALSA backend? The author has written about a different audio binding,
 than Ardour does use.

 Do you believe that they will fix all bugs soon? Do you believe that you
 can sync it with another Bitwig perfectly by a network? Don't you want
 to have LADSPA and DSSI support? I don't need VST and AU support, I'm
 only using LV2, LADSPA and DSSI plugins.

 I suspect you prefer a studio in the box, instead of hardware equipment?
 There is so much talk about plugins, but I'm missing features to control
 hardware gear with a sequencer. With the Atari I edited sounds by SysEx
 editors included to Cubase in real-time, for the Roland MT-32 (not a
 toy, if you can use it as real pseudo analog synth) and Oberheim
 Matrix-1000.

 As an Ubuntu and Arch user, I'm also very sceptic about the idea to
 provide Ubuntu packages or an USB stick solution only. On Ubuntu Studio
 lists all kinds of rumors about Ubuntu's future are discussed. At the
 moment the situation for Ubuntu already is borderline.

 Regards,
 Ralf

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Re: [LAD] OT: Bitwig beta for Linux reviewed

[Louigi Verona]

I don't use LMMS to produce dronings. All-in-one sequencers are good for
grid-based music, sure. But grid-based music is not just techno, almost
every type of music except ambient is grid-based.

On Saturday, March 9, 2013, Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote:
 On Sat, 2013-03-09 at 21:40 +0300, Louigi Verona wrote:
 LMMS can be used to make any type of music, I do not see anything in
 the software that limits it to either techno or just playing around. I
 have made several genres with it and people like those tunes and don't
 find them to be just playing around. LMMS has got automation of any
 parameter, great piano roll. It's only serious problem is that it
 supports only LADSPA plugins and doing music without being able to add
 more sophisticated things like good reverb and other effects is
 uninspiring.

 To make recordings such as your Dronings would be more work for me when
 using software like LMMS, instead of software such as Qtractor and I
 guess I'm not an exception.
 They enforce a very unusual workflow. IMO there's a reason that
 Rosegarden, Ardour, Qtractor, Cubase, Logic etc. pp. have another
 design.

 I'm still limited with IOs, because my RME card is bad supported by
 Linux, but I already can loop in a reverb, so if it should be possible
 to add external gear, I don't care about software reverbs. I only used
 software reverbs, when I had no IOs to loop in a reverb.

 It's possible to make good music with a spoon, but more pleasant to
 play a grand piano instead of a spoon.

 I tried EnergyXT, I did not like it at all, very raw software, I am
 surprised anyone dares to ask money for it. However, to be fair, I
 tried the demo version only.

 Until now I didn't test it myself, because I don't like demo versions.
 Usually demo versions can't be used to make real test productions. I'm
 not interested to install a hacked version and I only knew one person
 living far away, who used it and perhaps still does use it.

 Other proprietary software doesn't need demo versions, because many
 people do use it, it's not hard to get a chance to test such software,
 but energyXT isn't Pro Tools or Steinberg, so I expect a full version
 for test purpose.

 Will Bitwig be released?

 Resp. when will it be released and really provide all it's advantages
 and how much will it be?

 I guess that Ardour, Rosegarden, Qtrator and Muse are the workstations
 that are interesting for me. When I was younger I made 24/7 music, today
 I don't touch an instrument for month, so I'm not in a hurry. If I
 should change my mind and become a musician again, I might use something
 Microsoft based or no computer. While I prefer Qtractor and Ardour 2, I
 don't exclude Ardour 3, Rosegarden and Muse, they are close to my needs
 too.

 Regards,
 Ralf

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Re: [LAD] Bitwig beta for Linux reviewed

[Louigi Verona]

Ralf, what do you mean Linux can't do loop and play? I have no problem
muting individual loops in kluppe or giada or sooperlooper.
On Mar 8, 2013 5:32 PM, Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote:

 On Fri, 2013-03-08 at 10:57 +0100, Thijs van severen wrote:
 
 
  2013/3/8 Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net
  On Wed, 2013-03-06 at 14:27 +0100, Adrian Knoth wrote:
   On 03/06/2013 01:05 PM, Dave Phillips wrote:
  
   Hi!
  
   
 
 http://www.linux-community.de/Internal/Artikel/Print-Artikel/LinuxUser/2013/01/Bitwig-Professionelle-Musik-Workstation-fuer-Linux
   
   
Excellent review, in German only, with some enticing
  screenshots.
  
   Well, it's still vaporware. For how long are we already
  waiting for
   Lightworks' Linux release? Exactly.
 
 
  It's odd hype only!
 
  2 Cents,
  Ralf
 
 
  fyi: i'm beta testing Lightworks on linux and it very real
  but it's a free world, so you are of course free to ignore this
  fact  ;-P

 I'm interested but where can I get a copy to test it myself? If I should
 like it, when can I buy it and how much will it be?

 Since we already have a long waiting list of interested beta
 testers, we are no longer accepting new beta requests. If you
 would like to receive Bitwig news, please sign up for our
 newsletter. - http://www.bitwig.com/bitwig-studio

 Btw. not easy to read, since the fonts are small dark grey on
 black

 I even couldn't watch the YouTube link that was posted some time ago,
 since this wasn't available in Germany.

 I read thousands of times that it should be a very good native Linux
 application, but than I always read that not all plugin formats are
 supported, that audio binding should be less good than for other Linux
 apps, such as Ardour. Now it's written that there are technical issues,
 but not what kind of issues, just that those issues will be fixed, as
 soon as it will be released.

 Simple question: Will it be released this year, next year, in 5 or in 10
 years?

 I suspect in 10 years Ardour, Qtractor, Rosegarden and other apps, will
 have made progress too.

 At the moment all I read about Bitwig only is hype!

 Regards,
 Ralf

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Re: [LAD] OT: Bitwig beta for Linux reviewed

[Louigi Verona]

Giada plays fine in sync. So does lmms. Test it yourself. I don't think an
all-in-one sequencer needs to use jack transport.

As for muting individual clips, a little weird requirement, IMHO. In fl
studio you also can't mute individual clips and I don't ever remember
needing that in all the 15 years I've done music.

Bitwig looks like a normal sequencer, which looks like smth special only in
comparison to what we don't have on linux . I did not have YouTube blocked
and I saw the demo. It looks what you would expect from a project that was
done commercially, I see nothing that would suggest it is claimed it solves
'all the problems'. It solves many problems for ppl like me who just want
an all-in-one sequencer, where the project is saved not by scripts, but by
pressing one button.

So to me your criticism looks like pointing out the lack of some weird
feature you personally want and which none of the software I know on
windows even has, and concluding bitwig is a myth.
On Mar 9, 2013 12:32 AM, Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote:

 On Fri, 2013-03-08 at 22:14 +0300, Louigi Verona wrote:
  Ralf, what do you mean Linux can't do loop and play? I have no problem
  muting individual loops in kluppe or giada or sooperlooper.

 Hi Louigi,

 for Qtractor I e.g. experienced that when I play a part of a song as
 loop, that hardware synth, software synth and audio after a few minutes
 are completely out of sync, when using Qtractor. As we all know, jack
 transport can't do loop play. Qtractor and Rosegarden can't mute
 individual clips, it's only possible to mute tracks, perhaps it can be
 automated, but for easily arranging a song it's better to be able to
 mute and unmute clips by click. You can't see the difference between
 clips with own data files and clips that share the data file with other
 clips for Qtractor (for Cubase such clips are called ghosts and they
 are shadowed). IIRC Muse can mute individual clips, but Muse never was
 able to run on my machine. I tested it for different distros, in
 different years.
 The way recording is handled, when recording in loop play, is not that
 manifold as for old proprietary sequencers.

 However, we can use those FLOSS Linux apps, but just a few people can
 test Bitwig.

 Regards,
 Ralf

 @ the topic:
 We already have some software that does run on Linux and I'm sceptic to
 read that Bitwig should provide all kinds of features we are missing for
 Linux at the moment or missing for any OS at the moment. A tester wrote
 that there are technical issues, that VST and AU are supported and the
 audio binding should be less good, than it should be for Ardour. Bitwig
 should be an native Linux app, but seemingly it isn't.

 Bitwig quasi should be what many people, including me, are waiting for.
 But I don't trust those folks, they already made that much noise, I only
 know from Gates, Apple and Zuckerberg, when they present something that
 is ready for the market. I'm seemingly not the only one who is sceptic,
 when taking a look at the graphic design of Bitwig.

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Re: [LAD] [LAU] Linux audio articles in LWN

[Louigi Verona]

Very well written stuff! Great, great stuff.

L.V.
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Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?

[Louigi Verona]

On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 2:29 AM, John Rigg lad...@jrigg.co.uk wrote:



 To be fair I wasn't really slagging off Windows and Mac users. Most pro
 audio
 engineers are using those after all. I'm just bemused by the attitude that
 audio processing tools should be anything more than that. Pretty pictures
 and dumbed down control ranges don't help me make better mixes, they just
 get in my way.



But why instantly dumbed down? Or are the generic LADSPA controls so
intellectual?
I think beautifully down interface adds to the inspiration as opposed to
stuff
that all looks like coding examples.



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Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?

[Louigi Verona]

Right, I hear you John. But I did look at pro mastering software on
Windows, I don't
remember any unnecessary restrictions.
My message would that I oppose this sort of a sweeping judgment of a whole
audio platform.
There might be some concrete examples, sure, but if you mean that in
general all or most
software on Windows is restricted in such a manner, I personally would want
some proof.

For instance, what restrictions of that sort can you name in iZotope Ozone?

L.V.
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Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?

[Louigi Verona]

By the way, to once again put up a little defense of people on Windows and
Mac, I advice everyone to watch a masterclass with Ritchie Hawtin, a
popular minimal house producer and dj. It is available on YouTube and he
speaks about how he is using a modular software and hardware setup by using
MIDI and OSC to create a complicated audio and video setup. It is amazing
and it shows that many people on Mac and Win are experimenting and even
writing their own software for themselves, like Richie Hawtin and his team.
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Re: [LAD] [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?

[Louigi Verona]

Hey Dave,

let me give you my opinion.

Too many distros - don't see it as a problem
Too many audio-optimized distros - don't see it as a problem
Not enough native plugins, esp. instruments. - agree, big problem, would
not speak of instruments only, effects as well
Inconsistent support for VST/VSTi plugins. - don't see it as a problem if
we go for our own standard
Too many unstable/unfinished applications. - agree
Too many  standards (esp. wrt plugins). - agree
Poor external/internal session management. - agree
Poor support for certain modes of composition (think Ableton Live). - agree
Lack of support for contemporary hardware. - probably, although I have no
data as to how big the problem is
Confusion re: desktops, and GUI toolkits. - i am confused as to why that
would be a problem with linux audio
Too difficult to set up audio system. - don't agree
JACK is a pain. - don't agree
Too much conflict/fragmentation within the development community. - don't
see it as a problem

I would have to comment more on the latter. I don't think it is bad or
unavoidable to have fragmentation and conflict. This is natural for most
human interaction. The problem, in my view, is that there are so few
developers (compared to, say, Windows Audio). And because there are so few
devs, fragmentation becomes a problem, since each developer is then just a
one man project with a small audience.

Cheers!



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Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?

[Louigi Verona]

1.) What else can I do, as a developer, to make users feel more involved?

Hey Davin!
One of the most responsive devs are those that
a. respond quickly
b. actively develop their software
c. integrate suggestions quickly

In Linux Audio excellent response I get from Rui on his Qtractor and on
Giada.

All in all, it is always best when software is developed actively. Real
problems arise,
when development slows down or comes to a halt.

Louigi.
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Re: [LAD] [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?

[Louigi Verona]

Devin wrote:


*1.) Developer releases software.
2.) Users download software.
3.) Users don't give feedback, or give very little feedback, on software.
4.) Developer doesn't continue to develop software because (s)he's
unmotivated to continue due to a perceived lack of community interest
and/or because his/her requirements for the software are satisfied.
5.) Bit-rot ensues.*


This is very interesting because it displays that Linux, as a hobbyist
operating system, has a very different motivational set. While on Windows
developers won't typically start writing software unless they have
researched the market and are sure it will be used, on Linux a developer
usually writes software for himself.

In fact, I think even bigger software, like Qtractor, is written as a hobby
(Rui, correct me if I am wrong).

In other words, software on Linux is usually developer-driven, not
user-driven. And this constructs a totally different community and attitude
and method of communication. Linux, at its core, is an operating system for
developers, for people who want to write their own stuff.

To rephrase it, I would also say that Linux Audio as an environment lacks
competition. You don't have to worry your software is out of date or that
someone else introduced a new feature. What is seen as duplicating features
by many is really a mechanism for quality and innovation. Here, on Linux,
there is no such thing as market competition. And thus - no natural
selection of software, so to speak.

L.V.
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Re: [LAD] [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?

[Louigi Verona]

On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 12:12 AM, Paul Davis p...@linuxaudiosystems.comwrote:




 On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 2:26 PM, Louigi Verona louigi.ver...@gmail.comwrote:

  Here, on Linux, there is no such thing as market competition. And thus -
 no natural selection of software, so to speak.


 if and when bitwig is released for linux, i suspect this will not be the
 case anymore.




Right, but question is - will the hobbyist software community be willing to
enter into a competition of that sort? Real competition will be when
several commercial enterprises compete, not when a commercial, well-funded
project competes with what people do in their free time.

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Re: [LAD] Highlife LV2

[Louigi Verona]

No worries, I did install 12.04 finally. Would be happy to be a tester
later on!

On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 8:00 PM, Filipe Lopes fal...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 8:34 AM, Louigi Verona louigi.ver...@gmail.comwrote:

 Hey guys!

 I am trying out Highlife LV2, got it from here:
 http://distrho.sourceforge.net/ports.php
 In my case it does not display in Carla (external GUI looks like a small
 box). Displays fine as a standalone and as LV2 in Qtractor, but when I
 click Import File - nothing happens.

 Problem is that I am still on Ubuntu 10.04 and desperately don't want to
 upgrade since most things I need work and I enjoy this version very much.
 Is there anything I can do to make Highlife work?



 Hi Louigi, I maintain the DISTRHO project.

 The highlife plugin has a few issues, a big one is that wav import is
 broken (mp3 works fine though).
 I didn't had time to fix it in the last release pack, and right now I'm
 busy preparing the next KXStudio and Cadence beta1 release.

 I plan to work more on those plugins in 2013. I'll be glad to have you as
 a tester by then.


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Re: [LAD] ANN: CMKeyboard

[Louigi Verona]

Hey Patrick!
In what way would you say this is different from JACK Keyboard?
On Dec 9, 2012 7:28 PM, Patrick Shirkey pshir...@boosthardware.com
wrote:

 Announcing CMKeyboard - Clutter MIDI Keyboard

 http://djcj.org/cmkeyboard

 CMKeyboard is a 128 note ALSA MIDI virtual piano keyboard spanning from
 C-1 to G9 written in python3 and taking advantage of the latest Clutter
 (1.12.2) features to enable scrolling and opengl goodness. It is a stand
 alone program which can also be embedded into other python3 applications
 as a class library. It uses code from the very handy pyclutter-widgets
 project for the rounded rectangles of the key buttons.

 The code demonstrates use of Clutter.ScrollActor(), GtkClutter.Embed(),
 layering of multiple clutter actors, handling of events including:
 button-press-event  key-press-event.

 Suggestions for features and improvements welcome.


 Enjoy!


 --
 Patrick Shirkey
 Boost Hardware Ltd
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Re: [LAD] [LAU] Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?

[Louigi Verona]

Speaking of hardware drivers, long time ago I wrote this article on
E-MU 0404 USB:
http://www.louigiverona.ru/?page=projectss=writingst=linuxa=linux_emu0404usb

For a long time it was my mostly read article. Some people theorized
that it is possible to make the soundcard working, but my tests have
concluded
that it is surely impossible without voodoo spells.

Is there any system solution to these kind of things, when the specs are
available,
but nobody cares?

L.V.
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Re: [LAD] E-MU 0404 USB [was :Re: [LAU] Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?]

[Louigi Verona]

I am absolutely ready to give feedback. The guy that I contacted wanted
money, not feedback.

On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 11:26 PM, Patrick Shirkey 
pshir...@boosthardware.com wrote:


 On Fri, October 12, 2012 12:31 am, Louigi Verona wrote:
  Speaking of hardware drivers, long time ago I wrote this article on
  E-MU 0404 USB:
 
 http://www.louigiverona.ru/?page=projectss=writingst=linuxa=linux_emu0404usb
 
  For a long time it was my mostly read article. Some people theorized
  that it is possible to make the soundcard working, but my tests have
  concluded
  that it is surely impossible without voodoo spells.
 
  Is there any system solution to these kind of things, when the specs are
  available,
  but nobody cares?
 

 In this situation you will make progress by joining the alsa-devel mailing
 list and offering to Q/A, debug and report back on results of any code
 updates. If you are prepared to put in some effort it will not take too
 long to make some real progress.

 For driver development on new alsa drivers you have to be prepared to be
 actively involved. You can't expect the alsa developers to make updates if
 no one is giving them any useful feedback. Otherwise you could offer to
 send the device to someone on the list and have them work on it. But that
 takes out all the fun of the Q/A process and you'll probably get better
 results if you have two people debugging and testing than one.



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Re: [LAD] [LAU] Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?

[Louigi Verona]

Sure, John.
I did not try to organize this. It might be possible, of course, in theory.

And maybe it is one of the solutions - to have a place (possibly like
kickstarter)
where we can organize driver jobs. I don't know how realistic this is
though, but
could be worth a try.

On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 11:11 PM, John Rigg lad...@jrigg.co.uk wrote:

 On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 05:31:19PM +0400, Louigi Verona wrote:
  Speaking of hardware drivers, long time ago I wrote this article on
  E-MU 0404 USB:
 
 http://www.louigiverona.ru/?page=projectss=writingst=linuxa=linux_emu0404usb
 
  For a long time it was my mostly read article. Some people theorized
  that it is possible to make the soundcard working, but my tests have
  concluded
  that it is surely impossible without voodoo spells.
 
  Is there any system solution to these kind of things, when the specs are
  available,
  but nobody cares?

 If it's a popular device shouldn't it be possible to organise the
 programming
 equivalent of a group buy and get interested users to pay someone who
 knows
 the necessary voodoo to get it working?

 It might not be a case of nobody cares, but that nobody can afford to
 drop
 their paid work for long enough to look at the problem.

 John

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[LAD] Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?

[Louigi Verona]

Hey fellas!

Would like to present an article I've written. Mostly wrote it to start a
conversation and hear what others have to say on the subject.

http://www.louigiverona.ru/?page=projectss=writingst=linuxa=linux_progress

You can comment here or on my textboard (which does not require
registration).


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Re: [LAD] [LAU] Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?

[Louigi Verona]

Hey Dan!

Saving projects is only tricky if you use the modular approach versus
instrument plugins hence this isn't really a problem for A3 and qtractor.

True, but since there are very few plugins, most power of Linux Audio today
is not in its plugin collection ;)

On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 2:09 PM, Dan MacDonald allc...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi LV!

 Nice and interesting write up of your experiences and opinions there. I
 agree with most all of it except:

 Saving projects is still a huge problem. In addition to LADISH we do now
 have NSM, the Non-Session Manager, which seems like a workable solution, so
 we'll see how this works out in the long run.
 LMMS seems to be the only game in town for those who want to save full
 projects by just clicking Save and not having to install and configure a
 session manager. I must admit, by the way, that I have not followed LMMS
 recently.

 Saving projects is only tricky if you use the modular approach versus
 instrument plugins hence this isn't really a problem for A3 and qtractor.
 Aside from LMMS, MusE and sunvox have a few integrated instruments so they
 don't have this problem either (if you stick to the built-in synths for
 Muse only - sunvox doesn't handle plugins) and pretty soon MusE should gain
 native VST support to further improve this situation.

 Your article has reminded me of my one and only JACK complaint/ feature
 (yep - just one!!!) request which I filed a couple of years ago now but is
 still to be addressed:

 http://trac.jackaudio.org/ticket/202

 I'm surprised others haven't been asking for more descriptive 'device
 busy' error messages from JACK as for many years this has been my only
 issue with JACK - it doesn't start and you don't know what process is
 preventing it doing so. Quite often I'll not bother doing the detective
 work and just reboot but that is hardly ideal so I think this small
 addition would make JACK (and qjackctl) and as a result Linux audio much
 more user friendly.

 Your thoughts Mr Davis?

 On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 9:24 AM, Louigi Verona louigi.ver...@gmail.comwrote:

 Hey fellas!

 Would like to present an article I've written. Mostly wrote it to start a
 conversation and hear what others have to say on the subject.


 http://www.louigiverona.ru/?page=projectss=writingst=linuxa=linux_progress

 You can comment here or on my textboard (which does not require
 registration).


 --
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Re: [LAD] [LAU] Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?

[Louigi Verona]

Hello Ben!

I'd like to answer your question: Is OSX/Win Audio moving _backward_?

In the most general sense my answer would be a no.
It is like being in a process of building a house and looking at your
neighbour who has already built a house and saying - hm, his building
process seems to be going backward. But I think it is more accurate to say
that his building process simply stopped, because the house is already
complete.

Since day one I have always underlined that I do not think Linux can
technically compete with Windows and Mac OS in that many things.
Freedom is what gives Linux its benefits. But technical superiority is
questionable. It strongly depends on what distro you use, what you do with
it, etc. And even if in theory it can be shown that Windows and Mac OS are
in many ways technically inferior, the number of users hammering at it
surely made it work - not in theory, but in practice.

Windows Audio, as opposed to Linux Audio, has all pieces in place - it has
sequencers, it has tens of thousands of plugins, hundreds of them high
quality, it has software for djs and live performers, just like Linux it
has all sorts of very cool experimental applications, which continue to be
developed and absolutely no problems with hardware.
Mac OSX is even better in the realm of audio. I have many friends who are
professional musicians and who use Mac, I've performed with them and I have
seen great things that Mac Audio can do - it is incredible.

And now, when these platforms have everything a modern musician requires
and, while there is always room for improvement and new ideas, there are
hardly any pressing needs, they can experiment with Metro, with small
screens and with anything they want. They are on a firm base and if needed,
all of it can be expanded to anything you want.

This is my opinion.
Why we stick with Linux? Each has his reasons. Linux is free. Linux surely
has some unique workflows, possibilities and apps.
But to me the problem is that I can do great ambient on Linux, but I have a
difficult time putting together anything else. Doing a house tune, which is
a pleasure on Windows, is a very difficult thing on Linux, I've written
about it many times.
So my dream is to see Linux fulfil the need of a non-experimental
electronic musician.


On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 4:33 PM, Ben Loftis b...@harrisonconsoles.comwrote:


 I'd pose a different question:

 Is OSX/Win Audio moving _backward_?

 If OSX continues to move towards iOS, and Win continues to move towards
 Metro,  and Thunderbolt stalls, and screens get smaller, and expansion
 ports get scarcer, then Linux might become the de-facto pro multimedia
 platform simply because the other choices have become too dumbed down.

 Of course _most_ users will be happy with the ease and power of the tools
 that will be available on iOS/Metro.  And _most_ users is where the money
 is, so Apple/Microsoft are chasing the right users.  But there will be some
 serious users that need a powerful production system with big screens and
 big peripherals,  and for these users, Linux might become the standard.

 -Ben




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Re: [LAD] Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?

[Louigi Verona]

I'm surprised you didn't mention Luppp, libmapper, or the resurgence of
ZynAddSubFX developement.

Don't be - it is impossible to mention everything :)
But this is why I want to hear what other people say - crowd source
approach ;)

On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 10:04 PM, J. Liles malnour...@gmail.com wrote:



 On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 1:24 AM, Louigi Verona louigi.ver...@gmail.comwrote:

 Hey fellas!

 Would like to present an article I've written. Mostly wrote it to start a
 conversation and hear what others have to say on the subject.


 http://www.louigiverona.ru/?page=projectss=writingst=linuxa=linux_progress

 You can comment here or on my textboard (which does not require
 registration).


 Seems like a pretty negative outlook overall. Progress has definitely been
 slower than many of us would like, but that's understandable considering
 that most Linux Audio programs are maintained by single developers (with
 lots of other projects) or small groups. I'm surprised you didn't mention
 Luppp, libmapper, or the resurgence of ZynAddSubFX developement. I think
 the KXStudio project represents a *huge* amount of progress as far as
 integration and user experience goes.

 My personal frustration with Linux Audio is mainly focused on the
 seemlingly iron-clad (but flawed) JACK API. We've needed the ability to
 rename clients and have ports with arbitrary event payloads (to allow MIDI,
 OSC, or whatever other streams to be managed via the JACK connection graph
 and frame clock) for years. And, even though many proposals have been made
 and patches submitted, it doesn't look like the JACK API is ever going to
 be improved--which doesn't speak well at all for the future of modular
 audio on Linux (such improvements are unnecessary for monolithic
 applications such as Ardour since they duplicate all this functionality
 internally) . If an API is going to be fixed and rigid, it must also be
 extensible (like LV2).

 Still, I remain committed to improving Linux Audio and generally
 optimistic about the future.




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Re: [LAD] [LAU] Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?

[Louigi Verona]

@Patrick:

The problem with that approach is that it tends to feed the negative
attitude towards Linux and that is exactly what the competition want.

There is no competition, Patrick. Windows Audio does not compete with
Linux Audio. Only if in our minds. And thus they do not want anything.

There is no Windows Audio community, there is a Linux Audio community.
We try to compete with them. They do not compete with us.

Also, talking positive will not solve things. I see little value in
promoting Linux Audio,
for instance, for my electronic musician friends - I have to honestly tell
them that
making the kind of music they do is not easy on Linux. I like it and I am
doing it,
but I would not advertise Linux Audio as comparable to Windows Audio since
it is
simply not true.
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Re: [LAD] [LAU] Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?

[Louigi Verona]

I'm not talking about Linux Multimedia for amateur users or even
necessarily for artists/producers. I'm talking about businesses that use
Linux as their revenue generating platform.

Fair enough. I have no idea about businesses.

Don't you mean that because insert favorite application/plugin is not
ported they will have to learn how to do something differently and that is
too much to ask?

No, not really.
This is a topic which I have raised many times. I can point you to a couple
of my articles I wrote on the topic, namely these two:

http://www.louigiverona.ru/?page=projectss=writingst=linuxa=linux_types
http://www.louigiverona.ru/?page=projectss=writingst=linuxa=linux_modular
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[LAD] AudioGL

[Louigi Verona]

Hello fellas!

You probably bumped into one or two videos of AudioGL, a sort of modular
DAW (http://youtu.be/bCC9uHHAEuA).

Of course, none of us knows whether the video is actually true, whether it
is as as smooth as it appears to be,
whether it really does work that well as seen in the demo.

However, assuming that it is, it does display a rather robust music
production environment.

I have two questions.

1. How is it possible that such complex functionality seems to run that
smoothly? Or does it look more complex than it really is? The GUI seems
very responsive and animated.
2. The project seems to be developed just by one person, yet it looks like
a very functional music sequencer. Am I missing something here or is it a
matter of personal talent and commitment?


Cheers!


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Re: [LAD] [ann] out now petri-foo 0.1.85 / NSM

[Louigi Verona]

Is JACKSession really dead?

And fellas, to a non-coder, can you explain why isn't session handling done
through JACK, which seems like a logical thing to do?

L.V.
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Re: [LAD] The Influence of the Actor Model (Praxis architecture 101)

[Louigi Verona]

If you mean a separate thread for GUI, this is still not there,
unfortunately.
Any GUI computing disrupts sound, which is why I am using Pd only as
a midi sequencer for most of the time. This is very unfortunate. If the
authors
of Pd finally implement threading, it would be a big event.
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Re: [LAD] The Influence of the Actor Model (Praxis architecture 101)

[Louigi Verona]

I must admit I did not get all the technical details, but the general idea
sounds nice.
I do have Praxis installed but with so much game creation I am a little bit
out of touch with
live music right now! Plan to get back to it in autumn and then I hope to
study Praxis in greater
detail.

Btw, what is your opinion of Pure Data?

Louigi.
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Re: [LAD] [LAU] [Android|OT?] CamSynth - Just an experiment

[Louigi Verona]

It's beyond the pale that we today have all the communication technology
Gene Roddenberry (August 19, 1921 – October 24, 1991) just could dream
about, but the way it could be used today is weak.

+1000.

I would not say I am against Twitter, rather against all those patents and
copyrights that
just keep us in the dark ages of digital technology.
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Re: [LAD] [Android|OT?] CamSynth - Just an experiment

[Louigi Verona]

Wow, sounds interesting - as if it gives voice to what you see around! Can
you share an audio example please?

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Re: [LAD] Petri-Foo 0.1.4 now released

[Louigi Verona]

Hello James!
Sorry for late answer, did not have time to sit down and build new version.
Thank you very much for fixing, works wonderfully!
Already using it to make music!
Will file some suggestions later on some of the minor things which might
benefit even more ease of use.
Louigi.
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Re: [LAD] [LAU] [ANN] Praxis LIVE build:120620

[Louigi Verona]

Hello!
This is the first time I tried this out. Looked at several examples. Very
interesting!

Does anyone use it on the list for live performances?

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Re: [LAD] midi and audio connections apps output

[Louigi Verona]

Ah, thanks for clearing this up for me. I loaded a simple session and it
had numbers 1 and 2 only which I took simply for port numbers.

On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 3:01 PM, Adrian Knoth a...@drcomp.erfurt.thur.dewrote:

 On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 02:47:11PM +0400, Louigi Verona wrote:

 Please keep LAD at least CC'ed.

 [jack_lsp -c]
  However, this command seems to give the list of available ports. It does
  not show which ones are connected.

 It does show the connections, that's why jack_lsp -h says

   -c, --connections List connections to/from each port

 $ jack_lsp -c
 [..]
 system:capture_34
 system:capture_35
 system:capture_36
 system:playback_1
   PulseAudio JACK Sink:front-left
   MPlayer [9864]:out_0
 system:playback_2
   PulseAudio JACK Sink:front-right
   MPlayer [9864]:out_1
 system:playback_3
 system:playback_4
 system:playback_5
 [..]

 Obviously, MPlayer [9864]:out_0 and PulseAudio JACK Sink:front-left
 are both connected to system:playback_1, likewise for
 system:playback_2.

 In contrast, system:playback_{3,4,5..} are not connected.



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[LAD] midi and audio connections apps output

[Louigi Verona]

Hey guys!

I was wondering if JACK, QJackCtl or Patchage or any other programs that
manage audio and midi connections in JACK can output a list of connections
they currently make in text format?
The idea is that when scripting, you would use things like:

jack_disconnect rakarrack-01:out_1 system:playback_1
jack_disconnect rakarrack-01:out_2 system:playback_2

jack_connect specimen:out_left rakarrack:in_1
jack_connect specimen:out_right rakarrack:in_2

It would be pretty cool if when using Patchage you could, for instance, ask
it to output a similar connections list that you would copy and put in your
script.

I do notice though, that it probably would not output disconnect messages,
but only connect ones. But this is still help.

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Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files

[Louigi Verona]

Guys, I read about JACK Session, tried it out. It does seem very capable.
And if more apps add support (which, as people say in this discussion, is
not that difficult), wouldn't JACK Session be a good, stable way to restore
sessions? After all, JACK is a basic thing for Linux Audio and adding
support for all its features, including Session, would just become part of
the default routine. Am I missing something here?

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Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files

[Louigi Verona]

Guys, is there any info on JACK Session state? What apps are supported? How
to use?

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Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files

[Louigi Verona]

From my user perspective - I use samples extensively, however I care very
little about exporting projects.
I do care about preserving them, but I have a special folder called
Sessions where I save projects from all audio apps. Add my sample library
to that and I can preserve everything.



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Re: [LAD] Non Session Management

[Louigi Verona]

my 2 cents from user perspective: I know where I save my files, I know
where my sample collections are. i know that if i delete my sample
collection, sessions won't load. i don't need any program to tell me
that.

in fact, in using FL Studio or Cubase or LMMS you have the same
situation. a project can use same files as another project and if you
damage those files - well, sorry.

I do not see any reason for complications in session manager design. i
agree with david, all of this is unnecessary and only will make NSM a
session manager developers would be reluctant to adopt.

louigi verona.

On 3/29/12, rosea.grammostola rosea.grammost...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 03/24/2012 11:09 PM, Fons Adriaensen wrote:


 3. Clearly defining the way an app should behave w.r.t. its
 File menu entries (when managed). This is quite intrusive
 to existing clients, but it is IMHO absolutley essential.
 Kudos to the designer(s) for the having the courage to do
 this instead of allowing application developers to take
 the 'least effort' way (which would of course be better
 marketing, but invite later misery).

 How easy or how difficult is it compared to JackSession for example, to
 add NSM support to an application?

 Is it possible to have NSM and JackSession support in one application?

 Regards,

 \r
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Re: [LAD] Non Session Management

[Louigi Verona]

Hey!

I would like to ask. I did see a demonstration and it looks really nice.
However, am I right in understanding that currently only several apps are
really supported? And if this is true - is there an option of adding
support for more apps?



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Re: [LAD] Non Session Management

[Louigi Verona]

more easy to add apps without session support into the session

How is that done?

On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 7:15 PM, rosea.grammostola 
rosea.grammost...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 03/26/2012 05:51 PM, Louigi Verona wrote:

 Hey!

 I would like to ask. I did see a demonstration and it looks really nice.
 However, am I right in understanding that currently only several apps
 are really supported? And if this is true - is there an option of adding
 support for more apps?


 The API is explained on this website: http://non.tuxfamily.org/nsm/**
 API.html http://non.tuxfamily.org/nsm/API.html

 Developers can build patches for their software to support NSM, as they
 can do for JS and Ladish. At the moment only non-daw, non-seq, non-mixer
 and yoshimi (patch available).

 Atm their are more applications with JS support (Ladish supports ladi, JS
 and NSM): 
 http://tangostudio.tuxfamily.**org/en/packages/unstablehttp://tangostudio.tuxfamily.org/en/packages/unstable
 But the development of JackSession API has more or less stopped because of
 the fact that Torben has no time for Linuxaudio atm. Also it's not
 realistic to expect many efforts from Paul in this area.

 Moreover, NSM seems to have features JS lacks, but which could be a plus
 when it comes to workflow (stop session, copy session, more easy to add
 apps without session support into the session, possible to add apps without
 JACK support to the session).
 Also some people (Fons, Liles, Nedko) think that JS has it's limitations
 and therefore they don't support it (Fons, Liles). NSM could gain wider
 support probably.

 At first sight, NSM looks to me more promising then JS does, e.g. it has
 more chance to become really useful and to get broad support in the
 community (from the 'modular diehards'). But this is just a personal
 feeling/ thought. If this is really the case, depends on the view of the
 LAD community.

 \r




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