Re: [LAD] Is Piperware a successor to Jack/Pulseaudio?
On Sat, 3 Jul 2021, John Murphy wrote: On Wed, 30 Jun 2021 16:11:47 -0700 M. Edward (Ed) Borasky wrote: The biggest issue with Pipewire IMHO is that it does not support Ubuntu 18.04 LTS. That will be a big obstacle to growth until 18.04 is no longer supported, which is still about two years away. I don't know what's involved in doing a backport, but I for one would use Pipewire if it was working on 18.04. I've just seen a response from SOURAV DAS posted on 11 May to: https://ubuntuhandbook.org/index.php/2021/05/install-latest-pipewire-ppa-ubuntu-20-04/ Saying "Hi, the PPA maintainer here. Now added supports for Ubuntu 18.04 also." Linux Mint 20.1 (Ubuntu 20.04) here, so haven't tested it. 18.04 is of interest because... after that Ubuntu drops 32 bit ... everything they could get away with. It is for this reason I have switched at least one of my computers to debian. Not of interest to linux audio in general, except this 32bit laptop did save a recording session when the "recording machine" with win 10 showed up without the proper driver for the interface which worked just fine on this linux box because the interface was usb 2.0. However, to be more inline with the topic: beware that if you wish to use pipewire on ubuntu, the above ppa is required because none of the releases keep up with this quickly changing software. Also, be aware that (last I heard) the ffado backend is not supported. The expectation is that the alsa drivers will just work. If the current kernel will actually load the snd- (mine does not right now), the performance is even worse than usb boxes. So for firewire, jack is still king and usb 2.0 audio can still not match most firewire devices despite their age. With a properly setup pipewire, pipewire should auto bridge to jackd... I have not achieved this yet but I have not had time really either. Getting a boat in the water so the family could spend last week "messing about with boats" has been more important ;) -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Is Piperware a successor to Jack/Pulseaudio?
On 6/30/21 3:58 PM, Robin Gareus wrote: Yes, and ALSA as well to some extent. To applications pipewire looks like a running JACK server, or pulseaudio or like an ALSA device. So existing apps do not have to be changed. When the Jack option is enabled in Pipewire it expects Jack >= 1.9.10 to be installed, despite Pipewire being Jack's successor. Yuri ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Is Piperware a successor to Jack/Pulseaudio?
On 07/07/21 22:37, Fons Adriaensen wrote: On Wed, Jul 07, 2021 at 09:58:52PM +0100, Filipe Coelho wrote: You keep mentioning up that patch, but it only worked for you, it didn't for anyone else. It was used for years on the WFS system in Parma, until I switched to Jack2 in order to have parallel execution, as well as in the production studio of La Casa della Musica, on various systems operated by the univerities of Parma, Bologna, and Pesaro, by the RAI (Italian public radio & TV) and three private Linux-based music studios. None of those reported any problems. So stop spreading plain lies. I don't think it is a lie when nobody else reported it to work. Maybe your changes were in a copy that got reused? I am not doubting that it worked for you. Of course it did. But the patch, when applied, didn't work as for other as it did for you. Maybe something went wrong with the diff procedure.. I don't know now. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Is Piperware a successor to Jack/Pulseaudio?
On Wed, Jul 07, 2021 at 09:58:52PM +0100, Filipe Coelho wrote: > Except your patch was super messy, not formatted correctly and lead to other > issues, as described here: It was indeed a very big one, and fixed several issues: * wrong order of execution of clients, * high order polynomial complexity of several basic operations. This all depended on new data structures, and there was no way to split it up in smaller steps without introducing non-functional intermediates. > You keep mentioning up that patch, but it only worked for you, it didn't for > anyone else. It was used for years on the WFS system in Parma, until I switched to Jack2 in order to have parallel execution, as well as in the production studio of La Casa della Musica, on various systems operated by the univerities of Parma, Bologna, and Pesaro, by the RAI (Italian public radio & TV) and three private Linux-based music studios. None of those reported any problems. So stop spreading plain lies. -- FA ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Is Piperware a successor to Jack/Pulseaudio?
On Wed, 7 Jul 2021, 22:55 Fons Adriaensen, wrote: > On Wed, Jul 07, 2021 at 10:44:23PM +0200, Fons Adriaensen wrote: > > > With jack2 this takes 0.5s to create the clients, and on average 0.1s to > > connect all of them in a chain (15 * 32 connect calls). > > Correction: after removing some print() statements the total connections > time was reduced to 50 ms on average (jack2 of course). > > My script spawns jack_connect 480 times, It's probably going to be faster with an application... I'll try to get some measurements of that later. Wim > Ciao, > > -- > FA > ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Is Piperware a successor to Jack/Pulseaudio?
On 07/07/21 21:44, Fons Adriaensen wrote: On Wed, Jul 07, 2021 at 01:00:21PM +0200, Wim Taymans wrote: Challenge accepted!... I made a little jack client with 32 input and 32 output ports that memcpy the samples. Then I started 16 of those and linked them all in a long chain. Then I linked the input of the chain to a USB mic and the output to another USB card (it needs to do adaptive resampling to keep this going), That takes about 6 seconds to setup on my machine. I run this with a buffer size of 128 samples and 48KHz. ... With jack1 this fails miserably. Reason is probably that jack1 recomputes the graph for each and every connection change, even if the actual client dependencies don't change [1]. ... [1] This was one of the many things that my rejected patch (years ago) actually fixed. IIRC the complexity of jack_connect() in jackd1 is at least O(n^2) if not O(n^3) where n is the number of existing connections - this doesn't scale. Except your patch was super messy, not formatted correctly and lead to other issues, as described here: https://lists.linuxaudio.org/archives/linux-audio-user/2021-February/113821.html and then Rui added a note: https://lists.linuxaudio.org/archives/linux-audio-user/2021-February/113822.html You keep mentioning up that patch, but it only worked for you, it didn't for anyone else. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Is Piperware a successor to Jack/Pulseaudio?
On Wed, Jul 07, 2021 at 10:44:23PM +0200, Fons Adriaensen wrote: > With jack2 this takes 0.5s to create the clients, and on average 0.1s to > connect all of them in a chain (15 * 32 connect calls). Correction: after removing some print() statements the total connections time was reduced to 50 ms on average (jack2 of course). Ciao, -- FA ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Is Piperware a successor to Jack/Pulseaudio?
On Wed, Jul 07, 2021 at 01:00:21PM +0200, Wim Taymans wrote: > Challenge accepted!... I made a little jack client with 32 input and 32 output > ports that memcpy the samples. Then I started 16 of those and linked them > all in a long chain. > > Then I linked the input of the chain to a USB mic and the output to another > USB card (it needs to do adaptive resampling to keep this going), > > That takes about 6 seconds to setup on my machine. I run this with a buffer > size of 128 samples and 48KHz. Tried something similar: 16 instances of JackGainctl (from zita-jacktools) with 32 channels (i.e. 64 ports) each, run from a Python script. With jack2 this takes 0.5s to create the clients, and on average 0.1s to connect all of them in a chain (15 * 32 connect calls). With jack1 this fails miserably. Reason is probably that jack1 recomputes the graph for each and every connection change, even if the actual client dependencies don't change [1]. Plain unpatched kernel, with -p256, no xruns after one hour. > Works okish, some xruns here and there and this is a stock fedora setup > with extra rtprio for the user. No low latency kernel or any tuning. I had to > increase the max fds to 8192. Why on earth do you need that many kernel objects (fds) to synchronise just 16 processes ? Again something doesn't scale here... > This utterly fails with jackd on this system, it doesn't even want > to start all the clients, I'm sure it's something with the config somewhere... See above if you were using jackd1. [1] This was one of the many things that my rejected patch (years ago) actually fixed. IIRC the complexity of jack_connect() in jackd1 is at least O(n^2) if not O(n^3) where n is the number of existing connections - this doesn't scale. Ciao, -- FA ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Is Piperware a successor to Jack/Pulseaudio?
On 7/7/21 9:59 AM, Fernando Lopez-Lezcano wrote: On 7/7/21 4:00 AM, Wim Taymans wrote: ... == install patched rtkit in which priorities and cpu usage limits have been changed to more audio dsp friendly values < NOTE: max realtime priorities in rtkit are hardwired (in the source code!!) and cannot be changed, same for scheduling ring (also hardwired in the source code to SCHED_RR, does not allow use of SCHED_FIFO), so for testing I built a patched rtkit package > BZZT! WRONG!! rtkit can be "configured" by using runtime parameters when started. Sigh, I did not realize that was possible, I should have dived deeper and/or RTFR (the README, no man page). Better than nothing but IMHO not a realistic configuration strategy (in my case it would involve editing the systemd unit that starts the service). -- Fernando ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Is Piperware a successor to Jack/Pulseaudio?
On 7/7/21 4:00 AM, Wim Taymans wrote: On Tue, 6 Jul 2021 at 21:41, Fons Adriaensen wrote: I'll give PW its chance when the developers tell me it's ready for real life. Which will mean a session with around 15 jack clients with a total of 800 or so ports. Should run without hickups while watching a youtube movie and compiling a kernel at the same time (which I can do now without any problem). Challenge accepted!... I made a little jack client with 32 input and 32 output ports that memcpy the samples. Then I started 16 of those and linked them all in a long chain. Then I linked the input of the chain to a USB mic and the output to another USB card (it needs to do adaptive resampling to keep this going), That takes about 6 seconds to setup on my machine. I run this with a buffer size of 128 samples and 48KHz. Then I started firefox and loaded a video. Then I also started compiling all of GStreamer on all cores. Here is the screenshot: https://people.freedesktop.org/~wtay/pw-load.png Works okish, some xruns here and there and this is a stock fedora setup with extra rtprio for the user. No low latency kernel or any tuning. Just to see if it makes a difference xrun-wise you could try rebooting with the "preempt=full" kernel option. Recent Fedora 5.12* kernels are built with HAVE_PREEMPT_DYNAMIC=y so it should be possible to change preemption from "voluntary" (the default in Fedora, pretty lame for audio work) to "full" which is much better - but not as good as an RT patched kernel. < the okish part is, well, not goodish enough because of the xruns, ha ha - but then again when running jackd you may get the same performance, depends on tuning, frames per period or "quantum" size, etc > I had to increase the max fds to 8192. I'm sure you can eliminate more xruns with some tuning. This utterly fails with jackd on this system, it doesn't even want to start all the clients, I'm sure it's something with the config somewhere... This is probably not a representative setup but at 16+ clients and 1024+ ports we're ballpark.. It probably starts to fail more with some real processing. I'll have to re-test, but when I last tested rtprio was not really doing the right thing for me when running pipewire as a jackd replacement (tested using supernova, the DSP multi-core sound synthesis engine of SuperCollider). If anyone cares to read really boring stuff about my tests (Jun 18, so maybe outdated) I am including some stuff I documented at the end of this email... maybe some of this has been fixed (my proposed solution was to drink a lot of wine[*] :-) While testing I found a scalability bug in the feedback loop detection, which should be fixed now. It might explain startup delays with complex projects... Ah, can't wait to test with my complex ardour sessions - which were failing to load in a "reasonable" time. -- Fernando [*] actual wine, not the Windows emulator version == some rt priority testing, June 18 2021 ... Several issues... more diving into source code, including supernova... < I did file a ticket with rtkit git about the hardwired limits that do not allow for audio workstation usage, we'll see if I get any answers > This is all in xxx (Fedora 34) == install patched rtkit in which priorities and cpu usage limits have been changed to more audio dsp friendly values < NOTE: max realtime priorities in rtkit are hardwired (in the source code!!) and cannot be changed, same for scheduling ring (also hardwired in the source code to SCHED_RR, does not allow use of SCHED_FIFO), so for testing I built a patched rtkit package > == install the real jack, run jack @ priority 65 - supernova threads: all FF (SCHED_FIFO), all priority 60 which is 5 less than main jackd thread, this is the normal expected behavior when using jackd $ ps -eLo pid,class,rtprio,pri,pcpu,stat,comm --sort -rtprio | grep DSP 1151907 FF 60 100 0.5 SLl+ DSP Thread 0 1151907 FF 60 100 0.0 SLl+ DSP Thread 1 1151907 FF 60 100 0.0 SLl+ DSP Thread 2 == install pipewire-jack, set pipewire to use the rtkit module, set priority for pipewire to be 88, set priority for jack to be 71 (in local account pipewire configuration) - supernova threads: not what it should be, first thread is the right priority but wrong scheduling class (SCHED_RR which is hardwired in rtkit), second and third are the right scheduling class (SCHED_FIFO) but wrong priority. I don't know how this is happening (some clues at the end of the email). $ ps -eLo pid,class,rtprio,pri,pcpu,stat,comm --sort -rtprio | grep DSP 1152815 RR 71 111 0.5 SLl+ DSP Thread 0 1152815 FF 20 60 0.0 SLl+ DSP Thread 1 1152815 FF 20 60 0.0 SLl+ DSP Thread 2 supernova complains on startup: Warning: cannot raise thread priority - pipewire threads: running at the right priority and scheduling class (which is hardwired in rtkit) $ ps -eLo pid,class,rtprio,pri,pcpu,stat,comm --sort
Re: [LAD] Is Piperware a successor to Jack/Pulseaudio?
On Wed, 7 Jul 2021 at 14:05, Filipe Coelho wrote: > > On 07/07/21 12:37, Robin Gareus wrote: > > On 7/7/21 1:00 PM, Wim Taymans wrote: > >> This utterly fails with jackd on this system, it doesn't even want > >> to start all the clients, I'm sure it's something with the config > >> somewhere... > > jack has a port-limit (IIRC 256 by default). It is not dynamic and > > unbound for performance reasons. > I got the same script working on JACK2 (minus the youtube video), I needed to increase mlock limits. JackLinuxFutex uses MAP_LOCKED, which can fail when there is too much locked already. JACK2 takes about the same amount of time to create the clients and set up the links and uses about the same amount of DSP (-+25%) as PipeWire. Wim ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Is Piperware a successor to Jack/Pulseaudio?
On 07/07/21 12:37, Robin Gareus wrote: On 7/7/21 1:00 PM, Wim Taymans wrote: This utterly fails with jackd on this system, it doesn't even want to start all the clients, I'm sure it's something with the config somewhere... jack has a port-limit (IIRC 256 by default). It is not dynamic and unbound for performance reasons. This limit was bumped in v1.9.15 to 256 clients and 2048 ports. See https://jackaudio.org/news/2020/10/15/jack2-v1915-release-and-current-status.html These can still be changed at compile time, as always. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Is Piperware a successor to Jack/Pulseaudio?
On 7/7/21 1:00 PM, Wim Taymans wrote: > This utterly fails with jackd on this system, it doesn't even want > to start all the clients, I'm sure it's something with the config somewhere... jack has a port-limit (IIRC 256 by default). It is not dynamic and unbound for performance reasons. try: jackd --port-max 1024 -d alsa ... -- robin OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Is Piperware a successor to Jack/Pulseaudio?
On Tue, 6 Jul 2021 at 21:41, Fons Adriaensen wrote: > > > I'll give PW its chance when the developers tell me it's ready for > real life. Which will mean a session with around 15 jack clients > with a total of 800 or so ports. Should run without hickups while > watching a youtube movie and compiling a kernel at the same time > (which I can do now without any problem). Challenge accepted!... I made a little jack client with 32 input and 32 output ports that memcpy the samples. Then I started 16 of those and linked them all in a long chain. Then I linked the input of the chain to a USB mic and the output to another USB card (it needs to do adaptive resampling to keep this going), That takes about 6 seconds to setup on my machine. I run this with a buffer size of 128 samples and 48KHz. Then I started firefox and loaded a video. Then I also started compiling all of GStreamer on all cores. Here is the screenshot: https://people.freedesktop.org/~wtay/pw-load.png Works okish, some xruns here and there and this is a stock fedora setup with extra rtprio for the user. No low latency kernel or any tuning. I had to increase the max fds to 8192. I'm sure you can eliminate more xruns with some tuning. This utterly fails with jackd on this system, it doesn't even want to start all the clients, I'm sure it's something with the config somewhere... This is probably not a representative setup but at 16+ clients and 1024+ ports we're ballpark.. It probably starts to fail more with some real processing. While testing I found a scalability bug in the feedback loop detection, which should be fixed now. It might explain startup delays with complex projects... Wim > > Ciao, > > -- > FA > > > ___ > Linux-audio-dev mailing list > Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org > https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Is Piperware a successor to Jack/Pulseaudio?
On Wed, 7 Jul 2021 09:31:10 +0200
Fons Adriaensen wrote:
>On Tue, Jul 06, 2021 at 03:54:22PM -0700, Fernando Lopez-Lezcano wrote:
>
>> Yes, yes, agreed. And most of the time you cannot remove stuff, and that is
>> by design.
>
>That has been my impression as well.
>
>> I long for simple text configuration files, you change it, restart whatever
>> it is if it is not dynamic, and it works! (or not :-)
>
>Same here.
>
>> Maybe this is just confirmation that I am old now, ha ha.
>
>Then we both are :-)
{raises hand} :)
>> What distro are you using these days?
>
>I have been using Archlinux for around 10 years.
>Now evaluating Artix, which is Arch without systemd.
>
>Ciao,
Devuan here - except a still working eeepc900 on debian squeeze.
--
Will J Godfrey
https://willgodfrey.bandcamp.com/
http://yoshimi.github.io
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Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song.
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Re: [LAD] Is Piperware a successor to Jack/Pulseaudio?
On Tue, Jul 06, 2021 at 03:54:22PM -0700, Fernando Lopez-Lezcano wrote: > Yes, yes, agreed. And most of the time you cannot remove stuff, and that is > by design. That has been my impression as well. > I long for simple text configuration files, you change it, restart whatever > it is if it is not dynamic, and it works! (or not :-) Same here. > Maybe this is just confirmation that I am old now, ha ha. Then we both are :-) > What distro are you using these days? I have been using Archlinux for around 10 years. Now evaluating Artix, which is Arch without systemd. Ciao, -- FA ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Is Piperware a successor to Jack/Pulseaudio?
On 7/6/21 12:41 PM, Fons Adriaensen wrote: On Tue, Jul 06, 2021 at 12:37:55PM +0100, Will Godfrey wrote: At one time you added things that you wanted. These days you have to remove what you don't want - but might not even know was there until it interferes with what you want to do. This is *exactly* what I profoundly hate about the way Linux and in particular systemd based distros are going. After every update you have to scan a zillion places to check if anything has been added that needs to be opted-out. If that is possible at all. Yes, yes, agreed. And most of the time you cannot remove stuff, and that is by design. Plus it is more and more difficult to find _where_ things are configured, and how. Sometimes it is explained, but it is pages and pages of "stuff" and after a bit I just give up. I long for simple text configuration files, you change it, restart whatever it is if it is not dynamic, and it works! (or not :-) Maybe this is just confirmation that I am old now, ha ha. I originally moved over to Linux to avoid this sort of thing. Indeed. And that becomes more and more difficult. I don't want to add to the systemd bashing chorus here - I originally liked the idea of a simple and dependable process/service supervisor. But there's one thing that the systemd advocates never made very clear, and that is that the main reason why systemd was created was to make Linux more 'corporate friendly'. < I read somewhere it was for embedded systems or something like that > In other words, to take away control from the end user, whose only remaining freedom is to opt-out, with all the work and effort that takes, of what is dictated by some central administration. And of course the distro maintainers like it, as it gives them the same power. I'll give PW its chance when the developers tell me it's ready for real life. Which will mean a session with around 15 jack clients with a total of 800 or so ports. Should run without hickups while watching a youtube movie and compiling a kernel at the same time (which I can do now without any problem). Then don't try PW yet :-) Big ardour sessions (34 3rd order tracks) would just hang in there forever until I just killed ardour (no patience, I know). I suspect (no proof) that new port creation is really slow compared to the real jackd. What distro are you using these days? -- Fernando ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Is Piperware a successor to Jack/Pulseaudio?
New problem. I run jack_capture, at certain times, via cron. Can run the script manually and it works fine, but just doesn't start from the cronjob. I have no idea why. Same story with arecord and pw-record (which has no -d duration). Script works fine from command line, but no joy from the crontab (the thing I do at the same time on the next line, works). It's a head scratcher. Something I'm missing, but it's definitely staying, even if I have to set my alarm clock to remind me to run my script. -- John. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Is Piperware a successor to Jack/Pulseaudio?
On Tue, Jul 06, 2021 at 12:37:55PM +0100, Will Godfrey wrote: > At one time you added things that you wanted. These days you have to remove > what you don't want - but might not even know was there until it interferes > with what you want to do. This is *exactly* what I profoundly hate about the way Linux and in particular systemd based distros are going. After every update you have to scan a zillion places to check if anything has been added that needs to be opted-out. If that is possible at all. > I originally moved over to Linux to avoid this sort of thing. Indeed. And that becomes more and more difficult. I don't want to add to the systemd bashing chorus here - I originally liked the idea of a simple and dependable process/service supervisor. But there's one thing that the systemd advocates never made very clear, and that is that the main reason why systemd was created was to make Linux more 'corporate friendly'. In other words, to take away control from the end user, whose only remaining freedom is to opt-out, with all the work and effort that takes, of what is dictated by some central administration. And of course the distro maintainers like it, as it gives them the same power. I'll give PW its chance when the developers tell me it's ready for real life. Which will mean a session with around 15 jack clients with a total of 800 or so ports. Should run without hickups while watching a youtube movie and compiling a kernel at the same time (which I can do now without any problem). Ciao, -- FA ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Is Piperware a successor to Jack/Pulseaudio?
On 7/4/21 6:25 PM, Robin Gareus wrote: On 7/4/21 6:35 PM, John Murphy wrote: On Wed, 30 Jun 2021 15:48:31 -0700 Yuri wrote: [...] Does anybody have experience using it? https://pipewire.org/ Yes. I've used it for a whole day now, on Linux Mint 20.1 Ulyssa base (Ubuntu 20.04 focal). Everything seems to just work. Yes, the project is making huge progress. Also thanks to the many early adopters filing helpful issue reports. Wim and his team address them at incredible speed. If you use it, be prepared to live on the bleeding edge, e.g. until last week pipewire didn't set realtime permissions correctly, and the week before had a crashing bug with Ardour querying ports when 3rd party apps are involved. Fixed now. Hmmm, yes, realtime is fixed now?? (it was returning hardwired priorities (!) and was generally a mess). But part of the problem is rtkit itself which will not let you do what you need to do if you know what you are doing. Maybe now not using rtkit works fine. I did a quick test last week and the results with ardour were bad (up to date Fedora 34), for a complex session it would hang forever or crash. And I have seen a big difference when using jacktrip - pipewire triggers long dropouts when new clients connect, jackd is fine. So I suspect it has (had?) long delays when compared to jackd when reordering the graph when new clients connect or new ports get created. I still have to try to debug this to get more data, time time time... So update early, update often Yup... (but so far for production I have to use jackd) -- Fernando ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Is Piperware a successor to Jack/Pulseaudio?
On Tue, 6 Jul 2021 15:27:53 +0100 I wrote: > I may have to do one of those. I think James Szinger's prediction [1] > is accurate, although, while I am confused I am not yet "wailing". > Now wailing with joy having found a workaround. Simply need to send 'play' to jack_transport after any 'locate'. Strange, but true. -- John. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Is Piperware a successor to Jack/Pulseaudio?
On Mon, 5 Jul 2021 03:25:09 +0200 Robin Gareus wrote: > On 7/4/21 6:35 PM, John Murphy wrote: > > On Wed, 30 Jun 2021 15:48:31 -0700 Yuri wrote: > > [...] > >> Does anybody have experience using it? > >> > >> https://pipewire.org/ > > > > Yes. I've used it for a whole day now, on Linux Mint 20.1 Ulyssa base > > (Ubuntu 20.04 focal). Everything seems to just work. > > > Yes, the project is making huge progress. Also thanks to the many early > adopters filing helpful issue reports. Wim and his team address them at > incredible speed. I may have to do one of those. I think James Szinger's prediction [1] is accurate, although, while I am confused I am not yet "wailing". He says the proposal "does not mention any native tools.", by which he may mean the jack-tools package itself, which is the source of my partially working jack_transport (I use it most days via a QProcess). > If you use it, be prepared to live on the bleeding edge, e.g. until last > week pipewire didn't set realtime permissions correctly, and the week > before had a crashing bug with Ardour querying ports when 3rd party apps > are involved. Fixed now. > > So update early, update often I think I read that the PPA is updated every fifteen days, so I'll be a bit behind the sharpest edge. [1] https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/de...@lists.fedoraproject.org/message/WFRFNYK7IPGJPOE7WILUPGNFXIXV4GTL/ -- John. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Is Piperware a successor to Jack/Pulseaudio?
On Tue, 6 Jul 2021 12:42:06 +0200 Fons Adriaensen wrote: >On Tue, Jul 06, 2021 at 12:05:00PM +0200, Wim Taymans wrote: > >> The pipewire daemon is meant to be small and modular. You could run >> a custom version of that with only what you want. It could possibly be >> smaller than jack. > >Systemd started off like that as well... and now it has its tentacles >everywhere, and has become a nightmare to configure and for security. > >Some questions: > >* Will PW run without systemd, polkit, dbus ? >* Will it have a configuration that is fully controlled by the > end user, centralised in one place, and that is protected from > modification by just dropping files in some ***.d ? > >> Is it more complicated? probably.. mostly the memory management and >> abstractions of the processing nodes. > >> All of the desktop stuff (pulse-server) and autoconnect things >> (session-manager) are in separate processes that you don't need to run >> if you don't want to. > >If this is going the work the same way as systemd I fear it will be >glorious pain to for the end used to remain in control. Feature creep is my greatest concern. I consider myself moderately technical competent, but struggle with a lot of this stuff. The average user has no hope. At one time you added things that you wanted. These days you have to remove what you don't want - but might not even know was there until it interferes with what you want to do. I originally moved over to Linux to avoid this sort of thing. -- Will J Godfrey https://willgodfrey.bandcamp.com/ http://yoshimi.github.io Say you have a poem and I have a tune. Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Is Piperware a successor to Jack/Pulseaudio?
On Tue, Jul 06, 2021 at 12:05:00PM +0200, Wim Taymans wrote: > The pipewire daemon is meant to be small and modular. You could run > a custom version of that with only what you want. It could possibly be > smaller than jack. Systemd started off like that as well... and now it has its tentacles everywhere, and has become a nightmare to configure and for security. Some questions: * Will PW run without systemd, polkit, dbus ? * Will it have a configuration that is fully controlled by the end user, centralised in one place, and that is protected from modification by just dropping files in some ***.d ? > Is it more complicated? probably.. mostly the memory management and > abstractions of the processing nodes. > All of the desktop stuff (pulse-server) and autoconnect things > (session-manager) are in separate processes that you don't need to run > if you don't want to. If this is going the work the same way as systemd I fear it will be glorious pain to for the end used to remain in control. -- FA ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Is Piperware a successor to Jack/Pulseaudio?
On Tue, Jul 06, 2021 at 10:04:28AM +0100, Will Godfrey wrote: > What on earth has this got to do with systemd? Although I > suppose I shouldn't be surprised with it coming from redhat. I've started moving away from systemd on all systems. Not finished yet but getting close. Had a look at the PW docs, and really didn't like what I saw. The thing looks horribly complicated, lots of abstraction for its own sake, and dependencies all over the place (dbus, polkit, systemd,...) On a more fundamental level, I don't want the 'desktop' and 'pro' audio systems to be unified. It would be even worse than having all those pesty autoconnecting Jack apps. And for the 'pro' side, I'd prefer something as simple and autonomous as possible. Ciao, -- FA ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Is Piperware a successor to Jack/Pulseaudio?
On Tue, 6 Jul 2021 10:51:17 +0200 Dominique Michel wrote: > For pipewire, as >systemd is an optional run time depend Why? What on earth has this got to do with systemd? Although I suppose I shouldn't be surprised with it coming from redhat. -- Will J Godfrey https://willgodfrey.bandcamp.com/ http://yoshimi.github.io Say you have a poem and I have a tune. Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Is Piperware a successor to Jack/Pulseaudio?
Le Thu, 1 Jul 2021 18:57:59 -0400, bill-auger a écrit : > On Thu, 1 Jul 2021 07:01:31 +0100 Keith wrote: > > > The biggest issue with Pipewire IMHO is that it does not support > > > Ubuntu 18.04 LTS. > > > > I would suggest you have that round the wrong way: Ubuntu 18.04 > > doesn't support Pipewire. This is a Ubuntu problem, not a Pipewire > > one. If it matters to an 18.04 user, they do have the option of > > upgrading to 20.04. Distros do what they can. If your favourite software is not included, you can contribute to it by at least making a bug report asking for its addition. > the pipewire devs are the ones who had the option to decide > which distros it may be compatible with - obviously, ubuntu18 > was not one that "mattered" to them - but no project is obligated > to support any specific distro, so there is no fault there either Software developers make software, not distribution. They like when a distribution support their software, but they are not responsible for that. Also, if a given software builds and works on a given distribution, as example the distro(s) of the dev(s), it should work with all other distributions where the dependencies are satisfied. For pipewire, as systemd is an optional run time depend, it should builds and works on all distributions providing alsa, dbus, python and meson, which must be something like all not very old distributions. So again, if your favourite distro did not include pipewire, you can consider to contribute to it, or for an outdated distribution, to one of its external repository or overlay. Cheers, Dominique ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Is Piperware a successor to Jack/Pulseaudio?
On 7/4/21 6:35 PM, John Murphy wrote: > On Wed, 30 Jun 2021 15:48:31 -0700 Yuri wrote: > [...] >> Does anybody have experience using it? >> >> https://pipewire.org/ > > Yes. I've used it for a whole day now, on Linux Mint 20.1 Ulyssa base > (Ubuntu 20.04 focal). Everything seems to just work. Yes, the project is making huge progress. Also thanks to the many early adopters filing helpful issue reports. Wim and his team address them at incredible speed. If you use it, be prepared to live on the bleeding edge, e.g. until last week pipewire didn't set realtime permissions correctly, and the week before had a crashing bug with Ardour querying ports when 3rd party apps are involved. Fixed now. So update early, update often -- robin OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Is Piperware a successor to Jack/Pulseaudio?
On Thu, Jul 01, 2021 at 06:57:59PM -0400, bill-auger wrote: > On Thu, 1 Jul 2021 07:01:31 +0100 Keith wrote: > > the distro is not at fault for "failing" to support something, > which did not exist, or was very immature, or proprietary, when > the dirsto was released > The distro is at fault for not packaging it. > the pipewire devs are the ones who had the option to decide > which distros it may be compatible with - obviously, ubuntu18 > was not one that "mattered" to them - but no project is obligated > to support any specific distro, so there is no fault there either Is there anything that prevents you from compiling and building pipewire on 18.04? If not, then it is a distro problem. They have not packaged pipewire for 18.04, and they probably won't package it since 18.04 is a stable release so major new changes won't be made. It would be possible to add it in as a backport, that could optionally be added. -- Gordonjcp ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Is Piperware a successor to Jack/Pulseaudio?
A few weeks ago, before my Ubuntu Studio 20.04 + KX Studio beastie died -- it was an 11-year-old laptop that finally got knocked off of a table -- I tried Pipewire and completely messed up the system. Prior to that I had Cadence nicely integrating ALSA, PulseAudio, and JACK. At least, it seemed to be okay. I'm not much of an expert, but it was really easy to route various sources and sinks with Catia and Claudia, from within the Cadence "Tools" tab. Now I've got a brand new System76 running Pop!_OS. I've added some of the Ubuntu Studio and KX Studio applications to it, but I've been afraid to try Pipewire again. I haven't even managed to get Cadence working like I had previously. So, is there a "For Dummies" guide that would apply to Pop!_OS? ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Is Piperware a successor to Jack/Pulseaudio?
On Wed, 30 Jun 2021 15:48:31 -0700 Yuri wrote: [...] > Does anybody have experience using it? > > https://pipewire.org/ Yes. I've used it for a whole day now, on Linux Mint 20.1 Ulyssa base (Ubuntu 20.04 focal). Everything seems to just work. The only thing I had to set was the Profile for the CM106 Like sound device I use, in PaVuCtl to Digital Stereo Duplex (IEC958). One small problem for me is that jack_transport locate doesn't work, but I expect it will soon. May be related to Jackdbus support which is "very tedious to implement" Wim Taymans said. https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/pipewire/pipewire/-/issues/819 -- John. More diplodocus than diplomatic. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Is Piperware a successor to Jack/Pulseaudio?
Cool! I'll check it out! On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 6:12 PM John Murphy wrote: > > On Wed, 30 Jun 2021 16:11:47 -0700 M. Edward (Ed) Borasky wrote: > > > The biggest issue with Pipewire IMHO is that it does not support > > Ubuntu 18.04 LTS. That will be a big obstacle to growth until 18.04 is > > no longer supported, which is still about two years away. I don't know > > what's involved in doing a backport, but I for one would use Pipewire > > if it was working on 18.04. > > I've just seen a response from SOURAV DAS posted on 11 May to: > > https://ubuntuhandbook.org/index.php/2021/05/install-latest-pipewire-ppa-ubuntu-20-04/ > > Saying "Hi, the PPA maintainer here. Now added supports for Ubuntu > 18.04 also." > > Linux Mint 20.1 (Ubuntu 20.04) here, so haven't tested it. > > -- > John. > It's better to be an outlier than an out and out liar. > ___ > Linux-audio-dev mailing list > Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org > https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev -- Borasky Research Journal https://www.znmeb.mobi Markovs of the world, unite! You have nothing to lose but your chains! ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Is Piperware a successor to Jack/Pulseaudio?
On Wed, 30 Jun 2021 16:11:47 -0700 M. Edward (Ed) Borasky wrote: > The biggest issue with Pipewire IMHO is that it does not support > Ubuntu 18.04 LTS. That will be a big obstacle to growth until 18.04 is > no longer supported, which is still about two years away. I don't know > what's involved in doing a backport, but I for one would use Pipewire > if it was working on 18.04. I've just seen a response from SOURAV DAS posted on 11 May to: https://ubuntuhandbook.org/index.php/2021/05/install-latest-pipewire-ppa-ubuntu-20-04/ Saying "Hi, the PPA maintainer here. Now added supports for Ubuntu 18.04 also." Linux Mint 20.1 (Ubuntu 20.04) here, so haven't tested it. -- John. It's better to be an outlier than an out and out liar. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Is Piperware a successor to Jack/Pulseaudio?
On 7/2/21 1:32 AM, M. Edward (Ed) Borasky wrote: The particular incident that relates to Pipewire arose from the latter category - I saw some interesting writing about Pipewire and wanted to experiment with it on the NVIDIA Jetsons. They ship with an NVIDIA-supported operating system called Linux for Tegra (L4T), which is arm64 Ubuntu 18.04 LTS "Bionic Beaver" with some modifications and enhancements for the hardware platform. When I downloaded Pipewire and tried to install it from source, it did not build because some libraries on 18.04 are too old. I assume the Jetsons are not your everyday machines, probably even headless. I would argue that the main reason to run pipewire is seamless integration of pro-audio needs with pulseaudio convenience on your everyday office machine. So if you "just" want to integrate the jetsons into you audio production workflow, install jack and zita-njbridge and never look back. Also makes for a lot more deterministic system. As to backporting: that is a burden on the developers that takes resources away from developing. Pipewire is a fast-moving, very new project. You are on a customized embedded (and thus a little slower moving) platform. That is a problem, but if you want to combine embedded with cutting edge, you have to find a platform where the vendor tracks the latest stuff. The only community big enough to warrant that expense right now and deliver something close to "latest" is the Raspberry Pi, and, to a lesser degree, Armbian-supported boards. I know it doesn't help you, but I guess it's a fact of life. -- Jörn Nettingsmeier Tuinbouwstraat 180, 1097 ZB Amsterdam, Nederland Tel. +49 177 7937487 Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio), Tonmeister VDT http://stackingdwarves.net ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Is Piperware a successor to Jack/Pulseaudio?
Let me say a bit more about my situation. I run a mix of Windows 10/11 (including Windows Subsystem for Linux) and Linux audio software. Some is proprietary with a corporate support model, some is bundled with hardware (NVIDIA Jetsons and Bela) and supported by the hardware vendor, and some is open source projects, either my own or publicly accessible in more recent versions than what's on the distro. The particular incident that relates to Pipewire arose from the latter category - I saw some interesting writing about Pipewire and wanted to experiment with it on the NVIDIA Jetsons. They ship with an NVIDIA-supported operating system called Linux for Tegra (L4T), which is arm64 Ubuntu 18.04 LTS "Bionic Beaver" with some modifications and enhancements for the hardware platform. When I downloaded Pipewire and tried to install it from source, it did not build because some libraries on 18.04 are too old. In this case I do *not* have the option to upgrade to 20.04 until NVIDIA gets around to upgrading L4T to 20.04, which seems like a major problem in the making for all of their other users who've built on 18.04. I'm guessing it would also be a major problem for Pipewire to backport to the 18.04 libraries - they may depend on functionality not present.But if they could backport it, I'd certainly test it if it offers something better than JACK on the hardware. On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 4:03 PM bill-auger wrote: > > On Thu, 1 Jul 2021 07:01:31 +0100 Keith wrote: > > > The biggest issue with Pipewire IMHO is that it does not support > > > Ubuntu 18.04 LTS. > > > > I would suggest you have that round the wrong way: Ubuntu 18.04 doesn't > > support Pipewire. This is a Ubuntu problem, not a Pipewire one. If it > > matters to an 18.04 user, they do have the option of upgrading to 20.04. > > i would suggest that edward had the rational perspective > > the distro is not at fault for "failing" to support something, > which did not exist, or was very immature, or proprietary, when > the dirsto was released > > the pipewire devs are the ones who had the option to decide > which distros it may be compatible with - obviously, ubuntu18 > was not one that "mattered" to them - but no project is obligated > to support any specific distro, so there is no fault there either > > i do not see any "problem" for anyone (yet) - use pipewire if > you want to - switch distros if you must - but ... if good 'ol > (lean and mean) JACK does not remain as an option, for those who > do not need pipewire's extra bells-and-whistles, that could be a > problem > ___ > Linux-audio-dev mailing list > Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org > https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev -- Borasky Research Journal https://www.znmeb.mobi Markovs of the world, unite! You have nothing to lose but your chains! ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Is Piperware a successor to Jack/Pulseaudio?
On Thu, 1 Jul 2021 07:01:31 +0100 Keith wrote: > > The biggest issue with Pipewire IMHO is that it does not support > > Ubuntu 18.04 LTS. > > I would suggest you have that round the wrong way: Ubuntu 18.04 doesn't > support Pipewire. This is a Ubuntu problem, not a Pipewire one. If it > matters to an 18.04 user, they do have the option of upgrading to 20.04. i would suggest that edward had the rational perspective the distro is not at fault for "failing" to support something, which did not exist, or was very immature, or proprietary, when the dirsto was released the pipewire devs are the ones who had the option to decide which distros it may be compatible with - obviously, ubuntu18 was not one that "mattered" to them - but no project is obligated to support any specific distro, so there is no fault there either i do not see any "problem" for anyone (yet) - use pipewire if you want to - switch distros if you must - but ... if good 'ol (lean and mean) JACK does not remain as an option, for those who do not need pipewire's extra bells-and-whistles, that could be a problem ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Is Piperware a successor to Jack/Pulseaudio?
On Thu, 1 Jul 2021 07:01:31 +0100 Keith Edmunds wrote: >> The biggest issue with Pipewire IMHO is that it does not support >> Ubuntu 18.04 LTS. > >I would suggest you have that round the wrong way: Ubuntu 18.04 doesn't >support Pipewire. This is a Ubuntu problem, not a Pipewire one. If it >matters to an 18.04 user, they do have the option of upgrading to 20.04. Is pipewire runnable on the raspberry Pi? Anyone tried it? -- Will J Godfrey https://willgodfrey.bandcamp.com/ http://yoshimi.github.io Say you have a poem and I have a tune. Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Is Piperware a successor to Jack/Pulseaudio?
> The biggest issue with Pipewire IMHO is that it does not support > Ubuntu 18.04 LTS. I would suggest you have that round the wrong way: Ubuntu 18.04 doesn't support Pipewire. This is a Ubuntu problem, not a Pipewire one. If it matters to an 18.04 user, they do have the option of upgrading to 20.04. -- Great music, chat and even some wit. Join me every Friday evening at 8pm for Keith's Music Box: Follow: https://www.facebook.com/KMBEngland On Friday go to: https://www.mixcloud.com/live/KeithsMusicBox/ ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Is Piperware a successor to Jack/Pulseaudio?
The biggest issue with Pipewire IMHO is that it does not support Ubuntu 18.04 LTS. That will be a big obstacle to growth until 18.04 is no longer supported, which is still about two years away. I don't know what's involved in doing a backport, but I for one would use Pipewire if it was working on 18.04. On Wed, Jun 30, 2021 at 3:59 PM Robin Gareus wrote: > > On 7/1/21 12:48 AM, Yuri wrote: > > Somebody said on GitHub that "Pipewire is the soon to be successor to > > Jack/Pulseaudio". > > > Yes, and ALSA as well to some extent. To applications pipewire looks > like a running JACK server, or pulseaudio or like an ALSA device. So > existing apps do not have to be changed. > > Search this list archives from 2018. There was a discussion of the > framework. > > > Is Pipewire viewed like this by the wider community? Does anybody have > > experience using it? > > > > Yes, all Fedora 34 users, and some Arch'ers too. It comes up regularly > on the Ardour forum in recent months, top 3: [1,2,3]. > > There are still a few rough edges, but it matures quickly. > > -- > robin > > [1] > https://discourse.ardour.org/t/has-anyone-experimented-with-pipewire-yet/104933 > [2] > https://discourse.ardour.org/t/solved-is-there-a-simple-definitive-answer-to-getting-pipewire-fedora-34-to-play-nice/106059 > [3] https://discourse.ardour.org/t/god-save-pipewire/105691 > > ___ > Linux-audio-dev mailing list > Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org > https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev -- Borasky Research Journal https://www.znmeb.mobi Markovs of the world, unite! You have nothing to lose but your chains! ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Is Piperware a successor to Jack/Pulseaudio?
On 7/1/21 12:48 AM, Yuri wrote: > Somebody said on GitHub that "Pipewire is the soon to be successor to > Jack/Pulseaudio". Yes, and ALSA as well to some extent. To applications pipewire looks like a running JACK server, or pulseaudio or like an ALSA device. So existing apps do not have to be changed. Search this list archives from 2018. There was a discussion of the framework. > Is Pipewire viewed like this by the wider community? Does anybody have > experience using it? > Yes, all Fedora 34 users, and some Arch'ers too. It comes up regularly on the Ardour forum in recent months, top 3: [1,2,3]. There are still a few rough edges, but it matures quickly. -- robin [1] https://discourse.ardour.org/t/has-anyone-experimented-with-pipewire-yet/104933 [2] https://discourse.ardour.org/t/solved-is-there-a-simple-definitive-answer-to-getting-pipewire-fedora-34-to-play-nice/106059 [3] https://discourse.ardour.org/t/god-save-pipewire/105691 OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
