Re: [LAD] zita-ajbridge and aloop
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 2013-07-15 13:46, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote: Did you use hw:Loopback,1 doh! this is basically the answer i was looking for. thanks a lot! what are the requirements for an application to use zita-ajbridge? so now that it is basically running, i'm having troubles to make it run on the target hardware. when running zita-a2j resp. -j2a in verbose mode, i understand that the 1st number (the loop error) should be as close to zero as possible. in practice they are varying wildly betweeen +16 and -10. how bad is this? more troubling however, is that whenever i start an alsa application (e.g. alsa_delay), one or both zita-*2* applications complain with: Detected excessive timing errors, waiting 15 seconds. This may happen with current Jack1 after freewheeling. (btw, i'm using robin's jackd2-1.9.10+nobus+20130114gite4730c6c-NMU1) after 15 or so seconds the waiting application recovers, only to hick-up again after some seconds (see end of email). even while the i'm running the programs as follows: jackd -dalsa -dhw:0,0 -r44100 -p1024 -n2 zita-j2a -v -d hw:Loopback,0,1 -c2 -r44100 -Q16 -p2048 -n2 zita-a2j -v -d hw:Loopback,0,0 -c2 -r44100 -Q16 -p2048 -n2 alsa_delay hw:Loopback,1,0 hw:Loopback,1,1 44100 2048 2 uname -a shows: Linux WandBoard3 3.0.35-wand6.2 #1 SMP PREEMPT Wed Jul 17 10:21:20 CEST 2013 armv7l GNU/Linux top doesn't show anything unusual: 20 0 4636 2344 2108 S 19.2 0.7 0:51.59 alsa_delay 20 0 86272 80m 79m S 9.1 24.9 0:12.38 zita-j2a 20 0 86272 80m 79m S 6.8 24.9 0:09.94 zita-a2j 20 0 92864 87m 80m S 2.9 27.0 0:05.00 jackd finally: i'm wondering a bit on how to choose proper values for period-size and fragement size. that is: should zita-*a* period/nfrags match those of jack and/or those of alsa_delay? fgmasdr IOhannes typical output of zita-a2j; -9.554 1.58 -0.009 1.39 -10.560 1.43 9.244 1.30 0.138 0.43 3.434 0.68 21.940 0.999898 16.323 0.999789 Detected excessive timing errors, waiting 15 seconds. This may happen with current Jack1 after freewheeling. Starting synchronisation. -8.978 1.002152 -12.058 1.004386 -8.960 1.006809 14.445 1.16 -5.345 1.003726 6.023 1.002011 4.334 0.10 -7.868 1.003941 13.211 0.998161 -0.939 0.999894 -10.023 1.003701 11.972 0.998262 -4.587 1.000754 -0.417 1.001475 7.652 0.997528 -11.767 1.002691 19.205 1.002144 Detected excessive timing errors, waiting 15 seconds. This may happen with current Jack1 after freewheeling. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Icedove - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlHmtmEACgkQkX2Xpv6ydvR+GgCg4FGr63v9RqGI1sEuoEk1g8GR 4dAAn3AooFsJkt3rR1FP91r3RtXpeV7R =+j4n -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] zita-ajbridge and aloop
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 2013-07-17 17:21, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote: i'm running the programs as follows: jackd -dalsa -dhw:0,0 -r44100 -p1024 -n2 ah, and btw, the audio-device is a no-name USB-soundcard, hooked to the USB-3 port. $ lsusb Bus 001 Device 002: ID 08a8:0016 Andrea Electronics -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Icedove - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlHmuEUACgkQkX2Xpv6ydvQmTwCdEYvVzskfRH16vsphylXvzYTI yvUAnRdAui8XPFTYXJ/LJqNcgA9mXhhf =Sd5G -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] zita-ajbridge and aloop
On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 05:21:12PM +0200, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote: when running zita-a2j resp. -j2a in verbose mode, i understand that the 1st number (the loop error) should be as close to zero as possible. in practice they are varying wildly betweeen +16 and -10. how bad is this? It's not that bad, it just indicates that there is some timing jitter. This can happen for a variety of reasons, see below. more troubling however, is that whenever i start an alsa application (e.g. alsa_delay), one or both zita-*2* applications complain with: Detected excessive timing errors, waiting 15 seconds. This may happen with current Jack1 after freewheeling. You could try playing with the value in jclient.cc, line 437 to avoid this. Note that the delay error value printed by -v is averaged over 1/4 second, while the one tested is not. (btw, i'm using robin's jackd2-1.9.10+nobus+20130114gite4730c6c-NMU1) after 15 or so seconds the waiting application recovers, only to hick-up again after some seconds (see end of email). i'm running the programs as follows: jackd -dalsa -dhw:0,0 -r44100 -p1024 -n2 zita-j2a -v -d hw:Loopback,0,1 -c2 -r44100 -Q16 -p2048 -n2 zita-a2j -v -d hw:Loopback,0,0 -c2 -r44100 -Q16 -p2048 -n2 alsa_delay hw:Loopback,1,0 hw:Loopback,1,1 44100 2048 2 This is really a combination of all possible worst-case scenarios. * Does your HW have a high resolution timer that Jack can use for its microseconds timer ? If not there will be trouble. * Same for the aloop device. It emulates a HW device at some configured sample rate, and therefore depends on an accurate timer in order to do this without loads of jitter. * I have *no* idea of the correct implementation of the DLL used in Jack2, but zita-ajbridge does critically depend on it. * For anything USB, 44.1 kHz is really asking for trouble. With 48 kHz you have at least a a simpler relation to the USB interrupt rate of 1 kHz, and if that doesn't help using -n 3 probably will. I don't know 'Andrea Electronics'... * Keep in mind that zita-ajbridge was not designed to be used this way. Its primary use is to add an additional (decent) soundcard to Jack, and I have my doubts about aloop. finally: i'm wondering a bit on how to choose proper values for period-size and fragement size. that is: should zita-*a* period/nfrags match those of jack and/or those of alsa_delay? For Jack vs. zita-*2* there are no restrictions. In normal use (that is adding a real sound card to Jack), you would make the period size of zita-*2* shorter than the one used by Jack (unless that is already quite small) to avoid additional latency. I don't know how having different period sizes on both ends of an aloop would affect it. Ciao, -- FA A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia. It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow) ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] zita-ajbridge and aloop
Le Thu, 11 Jul 2013 14:52:28 -1000, Joel Roth jo...@pobox.com a écrit : Dominique Michel wrote: Le Thu, 11 Jul 2013 15:59:09 +0200, IOhannes m zmoelnig zmoel...@iem.at a écrit : -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 hi all, (apologies if this is the wrong mailing list, but i'm currently only subscribed to LAD and not LAU. anyhow:) i'm having serious troubles using zita-ajbridge with alsa loopback devices. my basic requirement is, to allow *any* ALSA-only application to be jackified. i'm on debian, and my current tests are done on i386 resp. x86_64, but my target platform is armel (wandboard solo, powered by a single-core ARM cortex-A9) the basic problem i'm facing is, that i don't get much output. occasionally i do get output (e.g. with mplayer) so here's what i did: # modprobe snd-aloop (with all the default parameters) which gives me: $ cat /proc/asound/cards 0 [Generic]: HDA-Intel - HD-Audio Generic HD-Audio Generic at 0xf0244000 irq 43 1 [SB ]: HDA-Intel - HDA ATI SB HDA ATI SB at 0xf024 irq 16 2 [Loopback ]: Loopback - Loopback Loopback 1 You can setup /etc/modules.d/alsa.conf, or whatever file used by Debian to configure the ALSA driver, to define the Loopback as card 0. That way, all the ALSA program will access the loopback by default. Of course, jackd must be running all the time for that to be useful. Will pulseaudio accept the loopback device defined as card 0? It would be nice to have a bone to throw to pulseaudio. More and more of my distribution's packages seem to depend on it, including that for a widely used video-conferencing client. I don't know. pulseaudio is not installed into my system. I don't want polkit, so I removed the whole of gnome :P) But I think it should work, pulseaudio have both a jack sink that can output directly to jack, and an alsa sink that can output to alsa. Joel Dominique -- We have the heroes we deserve. -- We have the heroes we deserve. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] zita-ajbridge and aloop
On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 03:59:09PM +0200, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:
i'm having serious troubles using zita-ajbridge with alsa loopback
devices.
my basic requirement is, to allow *any* ALSA-only application to be
jackified.
The normal way to do that would be the ALSA's pcm.jack device.
In your $HOME/.asoundrc:
pcm.!default {
type plug
slave { pcm jack }
}
pcm.jack {
type jack
playback_ports {
0 zita-mu1:in_4.L
1 zita-mu1:in_4.R
}
capture_ports {
0 system:capture_1
1 system:capture_2
}
}
There are two problems with this:
* The .asoundrc specifies the Jack ports it will connect to
instead of those it creates.
* Not all apps will find the device because
- they don't use the 'default' device, and
- they expect a hw: device, and pcm.jack isn't one.
But it works well with mplayer, firefox, chromium and maybe others.
$ zita-a2j -v -d hw:Loopback,0 -L
...
ok, so i stop mplayer, and start some other application e.g. Pd (what
else). hooking it up to the loopback device, i start my testpatch:
silence :-(
Did you use
hw:Loopback,1
(i.e. the 'other side' of hw:Loopback,0') for Pd ? Works here, but you
need
-alsaadd hw:Loopback,1
in order to find it in Pd's list of devices (which is utterly broken).
ok, so mabye Pd is broken, i try some zita app, e.g. zita_delay (from
libzita-alsa-pcmi)
...
$ alsa_delay hw:Loopback,0 hw:Loopback,0 48000 1024 2
...
not very surprisingly, it doesn't detect any input signal (zita-j2a is
not running), but i also don't hear any output signal.
See above.
To run alsa_delay you could try:
zita-a2j -d hw:Loopback,0,0
zita-j2a -d hw:Loopback,0,1
alsa_delay hw:Loopback,1,0 hw:Loopback,1,1 48000 256 2
which works nicely here (after connecting the Jack ports).
currently the *only* application that i can convince to use
zita-ajbridge seems to be mplayer, and only in S16_LE mode.
what are the requirements for an application to use zita-ajbridge?
Wrong question.
zita-a2j and zita-j2a are *not* ALSA devices to be used by an
application - rather the inverse: they are applications that
use an ALSA device (which should be a hw: one). It's aloop which
presents itselfs as a device, tries to masquerade as a real hw:
device but doesn't exactly behave as one.
Ciao,
--
FA
A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia.
It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris
and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow)
___
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Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org
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Re: [LAD] zita-ajbridge and aloop
Le Thu, 11 Jul 2013 15:59:09 +0200, IOhannes m zmoelnig zmoel...@iem.at a écrit : -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 hi all, (apologies if this is the wrong mailing list, but i'm currently only subscribed to LAD and not LAU. anyhow:) i'm having serious troubles using zita-ajbridge with alsa loopback devices. my basic requirement is, to allow *any* ALSA-only application to be jackified. i'm on debian, and my current tests are done on i386 resp. x86_64, but my target platform is armel (wandboard solo, powered by a single-core ARM cortex-A9) the basic problem i'm facing is, that i don't get much output. occasionally i do get output (e.g. with mplayer) so here's what i did: # modprobe snd-aloop (with all the default parameters) which gives me: $ cat /proc/asound/cards 0 [Generic]: HDA-Intel - HD-Audio Generic HD-Audio Generic at 0xf0244000 irq 43 1 [SB ]: HDA-Intel - HDA ATI SB HDA ATI SB at 0xf024 irq 16 2 [Loopback ]: Loopback - Loopback Loopback 1 You can setup /etc/modules.d/alsa.conf, or whatever file used by Debian to configure the ALSA driver, to define the Loopback as card 0. That way, all the ALSA program will access the loopback by default. Of course, jackd must be running all the time for that to be useful. Dominique -- We have the heroes we deserve. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] zita-ajbridge and aloop
Dominique Michel wrote: Le Thu, 11 Jul 2013 15:59:09 +0200, IOhannes m zmoelnig zmoel...@iem.at a écrit : -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 hi all, (apologies if this is the wrong mailing list, but i'm currently only subscribed to LAD and not LAU. anyhow:) i'm having serious troubles using zita-ajbridge with alsa loopback devices. my basic requirement is, to allow *any* ALSA-only application to be jackified. i'm on debian, and my current tests are done on i386 resp. x86_64, but my target platform is armel (wandboard solo, powered by a single-core ARM cortex-A9) the basic problem i'm facing is, that i don't get much output. occasionally i do get output (e.g. with mplayer) so here's what i did: # modprobe snd-aloop (with all the default parameters) which gives me: $ cat /proc/asound/cards 0 [Generic]: HDA-Intel - HD-Audio Generic HD-Audio Generic at 0xf0244000 irq 43 1 [SB ]: HDA-Intel - HDA ATI SB HDA ATI SB at 0xf024 irq 16 2 [Loopback ]: Loopback - Loopback Loopback 1 You can setup /etc/modules.d/alsa.conf, or whatever file used by Debian to configure the ALSA driver, to define the Loopback as card 0. That way, all the ALSA program will access the loopback by default. Of course, jackd must be running all the time for that to be useful. Will pulseaudio accept the loopback device defined as card 0? It would be nice to have a bone to throw to pulseaudio. More and more of my distribution's packages seem to depend on it, including that for a widely used video-conferencing client. Joel Dominique -- We have the heroes we deserve. -- Joel Roth ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
