Re: batching support for transactions
Andreas Dilger wrote:
On Oct 02, 2007 08:57 -0400, Ric Wheeler wrote:
One thing that jumps out is that the way we currently batch synchronous
work loads into transactions does really horrible things to performance
for storage devices which have really low latency.
For example, one a mid-range clariion box, we can use a single thread to
write around 750 (10240 byte) files/sec to a single directory in ext3.
That gives us an average time around 1.3ms per file.
With 2 threads writing to the same directory, we instantly drop down to
234 files/sec.
Is this with HZ=250?
Yes - I assume that with HZ=1000 the batching would start to work again
since the penalty for batching would only be 1ms which would add a 0.3ms
overhead while waiting for some other thread to join.
The culprit seems to be the assumptions in journal_stop() which throw in
a call to schedule_timeout_uninterruptible(1):
pid = current-pid;
if (handle-h_sync journal-j_last_sync_writer != pid) {
journal-j_last_sync_writer = pid;
do {
old_handle_count = transaction-t_handle_count;
schedule_timeout_uninterruptible(1);
} while (old_handle_count != transaction-t_handle_count);
}
It would seem one of the problems is that we shouldn't really be
scheduling for a fixed 1 jiffie timeout, but rather only until the
other threads have a chance to run and join the existing transaction.
This is really very similar to the domain of the IO schedulers - when do
you hold off an IO and/or try to combine it.
It is hard to predict the future need of threads that will be wanting to
do IO, but you can dynamically measure the average time it takes a
transaction to commit.
Would it work to keep this average commit time is less than say 80% of
the timeout? Using the 1000HZ example, 1ms wait for the average commit
time of 1.2 or 1.3 ms?
What seems to be needed here is either a static per file system/storage
device tunable to allow us to change this timeout (maybe with 0
defaulting back to the old reiserfs trick of simply doing a yield()?)
Tunables are to be avoided if possible, since they will usually not be
set except by the .1% of people who actually understand them. Using
yield() seems like the right thing, but Andrew Morton added this code and
my guess would be that yield() doesn't block the first thread long enough
for the second one to get into the transaction (e.g. on an 2-CPU system
with 2 threads, yield() will likely do nothing).
I agree that tunables are a bad thing. It might be nice to dream about
having mkfs do some test timings (issues and time the average
synchronous IOs/sec) and setting this in the superblock.
Andy tried playing with yield() and it did not do well. Note this this
server is a dual CPU box, so your intuition is most likely correct.
The balance is that the batching does work well for normal slow disks,
especially when using the write barriers (giving us an average commit
time closer to 20ms).
or a more dynamic, per device way to keep track of the average time it
takes to commit a transaction to disk. Based on that rate, we could
dynamically adjust our logic to account for lower latency devices.
It makes sense to track not only the time to commit a single synchronous
transaction, but also the time between sync transactions to decide if
the initial transaction should be held to allow later ones.
Yes, that is what I was trying to suggest with the rate. Even if we are
relatively slow, if the IO's are being synched at a low rate, we are
effectively adding a potentially nasty latency for each IO.
That would give us two measurements to track per IO device - average
commit time and this average IO's/sec rate. That seems very doable.
Alternately, it might be possible to check if a new thread is trying to
start a sync handle when the previous one was also synchronous and had
only a single handle in it, then automatically enable the delay in that case.
I am not sure that this avoids the problem with the current defaults at
250HZ where each wait is sufficient to do 3 fully independent
transactions ;-)
ric
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Re: batching support for transactions
On Oct 03, 2007 06:42 -0400, Ric Wheeler wrote: With 2 threads writing to the same directory, we instantly drop down to 234 files/sec. Is this with HZ=250? Yes - I assume that with HZ=1000 the batching would start to work again since the penalty for batching would only be 1ms which would add a 0.3ms overhead while waiting for some other thread to join. This is probably the easiest solution, but at the same time using HZ=1000 adds overhead to the server because of extra interrupts, etc. It would seem one of the problems is that we shouldn't really be scheduling for a fixed 1 jiffie timeout, but rather only until the other threads have a chance to run and join the existing transaction. This is really very similar to the domain of the IO schedulers - when do you hold off an IO and/or try to combine it. I was thinking the same. my guess would be that yield() doesn't block the first thread long enough for the second one to get into the transaction (e.g. on an 2-CPU system with 2 threads, yield() will likely do nothing). Andy tried playing with yield() and it did not do well. Note this this server is a dual CPU box, so your intuition is most likely correct. How many threads did you try? It makes sense to track not only the time to commit a single synchronous transaction, but also the time between sync transactions to decide if the initial transaction should be held to allow later ones. Yes, that is what I was trying to suggest with the rate. Even if we are relatively slow, if the IO's are being synched at a low rate, we are effectively adding a potentially nasty latency for each IO. That would give us two measurements to track per IO device - average commit time and this average IO's/sec rate. That seems very doable. Agreed. Alternately, it might be possible to check if a new thread is trying to start a sync handle when the previous one was also synchronous and had only a single handle in it, then automatically enable the delay in that case. I am not sure that this avoids the problem with the current defaults at 250HZ where each wait is sufficient to do 3 fully independent transactions ;-) I was trying to think if there was some way to non-busy-wait that is less than 1 jiffie. Cheers, Andreas -- Andreas Dilger Principal Software Engineer Cluster File Systems, Inc. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-fsdevel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: batching support for transactions
Andreas Dilger wrote: On Oct 03, 2007 06:42 -0400, Ric Wheeler wrote: With 2 threads writing to the same directory, we instantly drop down to 234 files/sec. Is this with HZ=250? Yes - I assume that with HZ=1000 the batching would start to work again since the penalty for batching would only be 1ms which would add a 0.3ms overhead while waiting for some other thread to join. This is probably the easiest solution, but at the same time using HZ=1000 adds overhead to the server because of extra interrupts, etc. We will do some testing with this in the next day or so. It would seem one of the problems is that we shouldn't really be scheduling for a fixed 1 jiffie timeout, but rather only until the other threads have a chance to run and join the existing transaction. This is really very similar to the domain of the IO schedulers - when do you hold off an IO and/or try to combine it. I was thinking the same. my guess would be that yield() doesn't block the first thread long enough for the second one to get into the transaction (e.g. on an 2-CPU system with 2 threads, yield() will likely do nothing). Andy tried playing with yield() and it did not do well. Note this this server is a dual CPU box, so your intuition is most likely correct. How many threads did you try? Andy's tested 1, 2, 4, 8, 20 and 40 threads. Once we review the test and his patch, we can post the summary data. It makes sense to track not only the time to commit a single synchronous transaction, but also the time between sync transactions to decide if the initial transaction should be held to allow later ones. Yes, that is what I was trying to suggest with the rate. Even if we are relatively slow, if the IO's are being synched at a low rate, we are effectively adding a potentially nasty latency for each IO. That would give us two measurements to track per IO device - average commit time and this average IO's/sec rate. That seems very doable. Agreed. This would also seem to be code that would be good to share between all of the file systems for their transaction bundling. Alternately, it might be possible to check if a new thread is trying to start a sync handle when the previous one was also synchronous and had only a single handle in it, then automatically enable the delay in that case. I am not sure that this avoids the problem with the current defaults at 250HZ where each wait is sufficient to do 3 fully independent transactions ;-) I was trying to think if there was some way to non-busy-wait that is less than 1 jiffie. One other technique would be to use async IO, which could push the batching of the fsync's up to application space. For example, send down a sequence of async fsync requests for a series of files and then poll for completion once you have launched them. ric - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-fsdevel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
batching support for transactions
After several years of helping tune file systems for normal (ATA/S-ATA)
drives, we have been doing some performance work on ext3 reiserfs on
disk arrays.
One thing that jumps out is that the way we currently batch synchronous
work loads into transactions does really horrible things to performance
for storage devices which have really low latency.
For example, one a mid-range clariion box, we can use a single thread to
write around 750 (10240 byte) files/sec to a single directory in ext3.
That gives us an average time around 1.3ms per file.
With 2 threads writing to the same directory, we instantly drop down to
234 files/sec.
The culprit seems to be the assumptions in journal_stop() which throw in
a call to schedule_timeout_uninterruptible(1):
/*
* Implement synchronous transaction batching. If the handle
* was synchronous, don't force a commit immediately. Let's
* yield and let another thread piggyback onto this transaction.
* Keep doing that while new threads continue to arrive.
* It doesn't cost much - we're about to run a commit and sleep
* on IO anyway. Speeds up many-threaded, many-dir operations
* by 30x or more...
*
* But don't do this if this process was the most recent one to
* perform a synchronous write. We do this to detect the case
where a
* single process is doing a stream of sync writes. No point
in waiting
* for joiners in that case.
*/
pid = current-pid;
if (handle-h_sync journal-j_last_sync_writer != pid) {
journal-j_last_sync_writer = pid;
do {
old_handle_count = transaction-t_handle_count;
schedule_timeout_uninterruptible(1);
} while (old_handle_count != transaction-t_handle_count);
}
reiserfs and ext4 have similar if not exactly the same logic.
What seems to be needed here is either a static per file system/storage
device tunable to allow us to change this timeout (maybe with 0
defaulting back to the old reiserfs trick of simply doing a yield()?) or
a more dynamic, per device way to keep track of the average time it
takes to commit a transaction to disk. Based on that rate, we could
dynamically adjust our logic to account for lower latency devices.
A couple of last thoughts. One, if for some reason you don't have a low
latency storage array handy and want to test this for yourselves, you
can test the worst case by using a ram disk.
The test we used was fs_mark with 10240 bytes files, writing to one
shared directory with varying the numbers of threads from 1 up to 40. In
the ext3 case, it takes 8 concurrent threads to catch up to the single
thread writing case.
We are continuing to play with the code and try out some ideas, but I
wanted to bounce this off the broader list to see if this makes sense...
ric
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