Re: Israeli ADSL dialers and privacy
On Sat, 14 Oct 2006 00:54:25 +0200 Julian Daich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > El vie, 13-10-2006 a las 22:37 +0200, Micha Feigin escribió: > > On Thu, 12 Oct 2006 09:13:04 +0200 > > Julian Daich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > El jue, 12-10-2006 a las 00:17 +0200, Geoffrey S. Mendelson escribió: > > > > On Wed, Oct 11, 2006 at 11:43:57PM +0200, Julian Daich wrote: > > > > > > > > > This week I have the opportunity to connect a new Linux PC to the > > > > > Internet with Bezeq´s ADSL via an Adtech( or whatever it is called) > > > > > 600 modem/ ruter. I was surprised to find that there are not > > > > > instructions of how to set the ruter, instead they( Bezeq) give you a > > > > > CD with a program for Window to configure a dialer and a booklet of > > > > > how to install and configure that program which in fact is more > > > > > complicate that doing 138.0.0.10 from your browser from any OS and > > > > > set Admin as username and password as I did to configure the ruter. > > > > > After examining the booklet with more detail I found within the > > > > > technical requirements to have an at least 233Mhz which I suspect is > > > > > to much requirement for a simple dialer. I´m trying to understand why > > > > > Bezeq try to force users to use these dialers since it is more > > > > > complicate to users, uses too much computer resources, costs more > > > > > paper and CDs to Bezeq and from the Bezeq side there is not > > > > > difference in resources if it is the modem or the PC what diales. > > > > > > > > By law, BEZEQ can not sell you access to the Internet. All they can > > > > sell you is access to their public data network which uses the ATM > > > > protocol. > > > > > > > > I have been told, but can not verify, that the ATM network realy has no > > > > speed or access limitations, you can open a virtual connection to anyone > > > > that can receive it. > > > > > > > > I do know that at one time, and they may still do, every ISP had a guest > > > > user id that allowed you to access their network without being a > > > > subscriber. The rates were very high, IMHO only usefull if you wanted to > > > > spend a few minutes testing out an ISP or if you wanted to connect to > > > > another ISP to forward that must-go-out email when yours was down. > > > > > > > > What you call a modem is really an ethernet to ATM proctol converter > > > > or packet assembler/disassmbler or PAD. > > > > > > > > Therefore they have to use a VPN aka tunnel to connect you directly with > > > > your ISP. The ISP then can regulate your data rates and access. > > > I understand, and maybe I was not so clear with my posting. My question > > > is why Bezeq gives you a CD with a dialer instead to teach you to > > > configure the VPN which resides inside the little blackbox( aka modem or > > > ruter) which is quite easier and straightforward to do. In fact, at > > > least for the Adtech modem, you do not need the CD program which Bezeq > > > calls¨ dialer¨. Is for what it makes me suspect that maybe this program > > > is more than a dialer. > > > > > > > This way they can give the same instructions to everyone regardless of the > > modem. > > > > It also translates network errors for the help-desk (I once gave them the > > verbal error linux gave me and they were stomped since it was not the numer > > that they use to look up in the book which tells them how to guide you) > > > > > Now it makes sense. > My problem is that when I see those CDs I recall the CDs which come with > every piece of hardware intended for Windows( Lexmark and most webcams > are the champions). These¨ drivers¨ usually installs heavy programs > docked in your system tray with a bunch of security holes, features that > nobody needs and report every single thing that you do to their mother > company. > And if you go in that direction, the recording that plays while you wait tells you to reboot your computer (my gateway is a mac running linux and the fact that it has been up for three months before the error occurred didn't stop them from asking me to do the reboot first and ask question later windows routine). As for the cd, AFAIK they install drivers for "dumb" modems, pppoe drivers or a vpn when needed, configure the windows dialer, completely mess up the explorer settings and possibly install a wrapper that calls the windows dialer. I don't think it installs any spyware, but I may be naive (doesn't look so from the task manager). Except for the vpn and the modem drivers when needed you can set it all up without the cd. The computer requirements are probably to handle the overhead of pppoe along with explorer. The modems as AFAIK mostly have two modes of operation (depending on how smart they are), the usually used ethernet to atm bridge (several methods for that), with a ethernet over usb option for the usb ones, over which you run pppoe or vpn, or a home gateway mode which is aimed at connecting a router behind the modem which does it
Re: Scsi&Sata Inquiry tool for linux
On Friday October 13 2006 15:59, guy keren wrote: > [since you're a top-poster, i'll top-post too ;)] Ugh :[ -- Sincerely Yours, Michael Vasiliev "If in physics there's something you don't understand, you can always hide behind the uncharted depths of nature. You can always blame God. You didn't make it so complex yourself. But if your program doesn't work, there is no one to hide behind. You cannot hide behind an obstinate nature. If it doesn't work, you've messed up." -- Attributed to Edsger Wybe Dijkstra = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Israeli ADSL dialers and privacy
El vie, 13-10-2006 a las 22:46 +0200, Micha Feigin escribió: > On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 20:54:23 +0200 > Julian Daich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > The booklet also does not include in its 10 pages alternative > > instructions for whose that run Linux, Mac, have not CD drive or older > > They don't care about linux and mac users, they just tell you to [EMAIL > PROTECTED] off and > that you are on your own. As far as they are concerned they whole world runs > winxp and the rest are not worth bothering with. I noted that. > > > PC that cannot run the dialer. Furthermore, their request of 233MHz of > > minimal CPU speed not seem to be not logical for any firmware of > > software dialer which is supposed to do less work than a old phone > > modem. > > Thats because the windows program uses windows drivers on a machine that runs > windows. It needs to bring up a bunch of windows and such, consume a lot of > memory and cpu power due the additional gui and network libraries etc. > > The blackbox itself probably has the processing power of a spachler (similar > to something like a 286 or a bubble gum), it's running either linux or vxworks > and a tiny http webserver for the settings with no gui, 2MB of flash and 8mb > of > ram if not less. just in case you are interested. > > > Maybe is only a bad after aftertaste of my Windows ages, but I don´t > > trust these CDs. > > > if > > > you give the average user written instructions, they are likely to make > > > a mistake. > > > > > > --guy > > > > > > On Thu, 2006-10-12 at 09:13 +0200, Julian Daich wrote: > > > > El jue, 12-10-2006 a las 00:17 +0200, Geoffrey S. Mendelson escribió: > > > > > On Wed, Oct 11, 2006 at 11:43:57PM +0200, Julian Daich wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > This week I have the opportunity to connect a new Linux PC to the > > > > > > Internet with Bezeq´s ADSL via an Adtech( or whatever it is called) > > > > > > 600 modem/ ruter. I was surprised to find that there are not > > > > > > instructions of how to set the ruter, instead they( Bezeq) give you > > > > > > a > > > > > > CD with a program for Window to configure a dialer and a booklet of > > > > > > how to install and configure that program which in fact is more > > > > > > complicate that doing 138.0.0.10 from your browser from any OS and > > > > > > set Admin as username and password as I did to configure the ruter. > > > > > > After examining the booklet with more detail I found within the > > > > > > technical requirements to have an at least 233Mhz which I suspect is > > > > > > to much requirement for a simple dialer. I´m trying to understand > > > > > > why > > > > > > Bezeq try to force users to use these dialers since it is more > > > > > > complicate to users, uses too much computer resources, costs more > > > > > > paper and CDs to Bezeq and from the Bezeq side there is not > > > > > > difference in resources if it is the modem or the PC what diales. > > > > > > > > > > By law, BEZEQ can not sell you access to the Internet. All they can > > > > > sell you is access to their public data network which uses the ATM > > > > > protocol. > > > > > > > > > > I have been told, but can not verify, that the ATM network realy has > > > > > no > > > > > speed or access limitations, you can open a virtual connection to > > > > > anyone > > > > > that can receive it. > > > > > > > > > > I do know that at one time, and they may still do, every ISP had a > > > > > guest user id that allowed you to access their network without being a > > > > > subscriber. The rates were very high, IMHO only usefull if you wanted > > > > > to spend a few minutes testing out an ISP or if you wanted to connect > > > > > to another ISP to forward that must-go-out email when yours was down. > > > > > > > > > > What you call a modem is really an ethernet to ATM proctol converter > > > > > or packet assembler/disassmbler or PAD. > > > > > > > > > > Therefore they have to use a VPN aka tunnel to connect you directly > > > > > with > > > > > your ISP. The ISP then can regulate your data rates and access. > > > > I understand, and maybe I was not so clear with my posting. My question > > > > is why Bezeq gives you a CD with a dialer instead to teach you to > > > > configure the VPN which resides inside the little blackbox( aka modem or > > > > ruter) which is quite easier and straightforward to do. In fact, at > > > > least for the Adtech modem, you do not need the CD program which Bezeq > > > > calls¨ dialer¨. Is for what it makes me suspect that maybe this program > > > > is more than a dialer. > > > > > > > > J > > > > > > > > > > > > > > HOT uses the same mechanism to connect their customers, but with an > > > > > added twist. Routers made for the U.S. market assume that the > > > > > "gateway" > > > > > is the IP address of both the IP gateway off of the local segment and > > > > > the tunneling host. In Israel they are seperate and most routers sold > > > > > in the U.S. will not work on HOT
Re: Israeli ADSL dialers and privacy
El vie, 13-10-2006 a las 22:37 +0200, Micha Feigin escribió: > On Thu, 12 Oct 2006 09:13:04 +0200 > Julian Daich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > El jue, 12-10-2006 a las 00:17 +0200, Geoffrey S. Mendelson escribió: > > > On Wed, Oct 11, 2006 at 11:43:57PM +0200, Julian Daich wrote: > > > > > > > This week I have the opportunity to connect a new Linux PC to the > > > > Internet with Bezeq´s ADSL via an Adtech( or whatever it is called) 600 > > > > modem/ ruter. I was surprised to find that there are not instructions of > > > > how to set the ruter, instead they( Bezeq) give you a CD with a program > > > > for Window to configure a dialer and a booklet of how to install and > > > > configure that program which in fact is more complicate that doing > > > > 138.0.0.10 from your browser from any OS and set Admin as username and > > > > password as I did to configure the ruter. After examining the booklet > > > > with more detail I found within the technical requirements to have an at > > > > least 233Mhz which I suspect is to much requirement for a simple dialer. > > > > I´m trying to understand why Bezeq try to force users to use these > > > > dialers since it is more complicate to users, uses too much computer > > > > resources, costs more paper and CDs to Bezeq and from the Bezeq side > > > > there is not difference in resources if it is the modem or the PC what > > > > diales. > > > > > > By law, BEZEQ can not sell you access to the Internet. All they can sell > > > you > > > is access to their public data network which uses the ATM protocol. > > > > > > I have been told, but can not verify, that the ATM network realy has no > > > speed or access limitations, you can open a virtual connection to anyone > > > that can receive it. > > > > > > I do know that at one time, and they may still do, every ISP had a guest > > > user id that allowed you to access their network without being a > > > subscriber. The rates were very high, IMHO only usefull if you wanted to > > > spend a few minutes testing out an ISP or if you wanted to connect to > > > another ISP to forward that must-go-out email when yours was down. > > > > > > What you call a modem is really an ethernet to ATM proctol converter > > > or packet assembler/disassmbler or PAD. > > > > > > Therefore they have to use a VPN aka tunnel to connect you directly with > > > your ISP. The ISP then can regulate your data rates and access. > > I understand, and maybe I was not so clear with my posting. My question > > is why Bezeq gives you a CD with a dialer instead to teach you to > > configure the VPN which resides inside the little blackbox( aka modem or > > ruter) which is quite easier and straightforward to do. In fact, at > > least for the Adtech modem, you do not need the CD program which Bezeq > > calls¨ dialer¨. Is for what it makes me suspect that maybe this program > > is more than a dialer. > > > > This way they can give the same instructions to everyone regardless of the > modem. > > It also translates network errors for the help-desk (I once gave them the > verbal error linux gave me and they were stomped since it was not the numer > that they use to look up in the book which tells them how to guide you) > > Now it makes sense. My problem is that when I see those CDs I recall the CDs which come with every piece of hardware intended for Windows( Lexmark and most webcams are the champions). These¨ drivers¨ usually installs heavy programs docked in your system tray with a bunch of security holes, features that nobody needs and report every single thing that you do to their mother company. > > J > > > > > > > > HOT uses the same mechanism to connect their customers, but with an added > > > twist. Routers made for the U.S. market assume that the "gateway" is the > > > IP address of both the IP gateway off of the local segment and the > > > tunneling > > > host. In Israel they are seperate and most routers sold in the U.S. will > > > not > > > work on HOT's network. > > > > > > There is a way around it, since HOT's network is IP over token ring, they > > > can set up your connection so that all packets from your cable modem > > > go to your ISP, allowing you a direct DHCP connection. Some ISPs do it, > > > some won't, some charge for it, all require you to talk to many customer > > > service people before you find one that understands what you want. :-) > > > > > > In the rest of the world, the company that sells you your xDSL service > > > is also your ISP, so a VPN/tunnel is not needed. > > > > > > Geoff. > > To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL > PROTECTED] with > the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command > echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] > -- Julian Daich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the comm
Re: Scsi&Sata Inquiry tool for linux
i'm afraid that a simple "scsi rescan" will not work - there's no such thing in kernel 2.4 (neither in kernel 2.6, before 2.6.12). we had to work for a while in order to get a rescan to work, and even then it's not a general-purpose solution. --guy On Fri, 2006-10-13 at 20:47 +0200, Jacob Broido wrote: > Good idea, > Also, if I remmeber correctly sg3utils allows to issue a SCSI RESCAN, > which I can use to overcome the 'linux kernel not being aware of new > LUNs' issue. > > > 2.6.x really made things sane in this area. > > > > > On 10/13/06, guy keren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > [since you're a top-poster, i'll top-post too ;)] > > in kernel 2.4, for SCSI disks, there is support for at most 16 > * 16 = > 256 devices. there are 16 major numbers (listed in the > kernel's > documentation), and for each of them, there are minors 0, 16, > 32, 48 > that are used for the devices (the minors in between are used > for > partitions, which you don't seem to care about). you could > then run a > loop that scans the list of combinations, and check whether > each of them > exists. if so - they are disks - use the standard tools to get > their > info. to get vendor + model - use the sg_inq utility from > sg3utils - it > should be available for kernel 2.4 too. note that this might > also > include usb mass-storage devices (disk-on-key, cameras...), > since they > are exposed as scsi disks. > > you could also look in /proc/scsi/devices for the available > SCSI LUNs > (this will include tapes too). > > i imagine you could do a similar thing with IDE and SATA > disks. > > also note that if a new LUN is added to the network, the linux > kernel > will NOT notice it. i don't know if it matters to you, but > just FYI. > > --guy > > On Thu, 2006-10-12 at 11:46 +0200, Jacob Broido wrote: > > Hey, > > as mentioned by Amos, there is a tool called lshal, which > works in > > 2.6.x , not sure about 2.4.x - (Any comments on this?) > > lshal is much more usefull than lspci and it provides more > details > > info. > > > > The missing information from lshal is the disk size. This > can be > > easily extracted using blockdev --size . > == > > blockdev returned by lshal. > > > > 2.4.x indeed seems like a problem at the moment. > > > > > > > > On 10/12/06, Oleg Goldshmidt < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > "Jacob Broido" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > > > Hey, > > > > > > > > > > > > I've been looking for some time for a way to list > all > > scsi,sata,ide devices > > > that are currently 'seen' by the linux host. > > > > > > > > > > > > The tool should do the following: > > > > > > 1) Find all HBAs in the host. > > > > > > 2)Query each HBA (should be HBA agnostic) > > > > > > 3) Query each device returned by HBA query, and > extract the > > following: > > > size,type,vendor > > > > With 2.6 some (most?) of what you want can be done > by quering > > and > > manipulating sysfs, e.g., > > > > echo "- - -" > /sys/class/scsi_host/host[N]/scan > > > > will do a SCSI bus scan. With 2.4 things are more > difficult, > > and there > > are tools that work for different HBAs, e.g., > scsi-qlascan for > > QLogic > > etc. Unless your device is exposed (by the driver) > in sysfs > > you will > > probably need a vendor-specific tool. > > > > Also, does "lspci -vvv" or similar give you anything > that you > > can use? > > > > If you find anything generic, a useful script or set > of > > scripts for > > 2.6, do let me know. > > > > -- > > Oleg Goldshmidt | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | > > http://www.goldshmidt.org > > > > > > > > -- > > Not gonna be king of the world if you're slave to the grind > > - Skid Row > > > > > -- > Not gonna be king of the world if you're slave to the g
Re: irc client
On Tuesday 03 October 2006 11:10, Erez D wrote: > hi > > i'm looking for an irc client to install on my linux box (rhel 4.4 x86_64) > > i found rpms of both ircII and bitchX, which was very old > i even tried to rpmbuild the from src-rpm, but had failed > > any idea ? > just need a text base irc client ! The fact an IRC client is old doesn't mean that it is bad. IRC clients, especially the text based ones, are not seing much development. I am using BitchX, from: ircii-pana-1.1-final.tar.gz. It works perfectly. --Ariel -- Ariel Biener e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] PGP: http://www.tau.ac.il/~ariel/pgp.html = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Israeli ADSL dialers and privacy
On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 20:54:23 +0200 Julian Daich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > El vie, 13-10-2006 a las 16:01 +0200, guy keren escribió: > > from customer support point of view, it is easier to give people CDs > > that they just need to install, then give them written instructions. > The provided written instructions of how to run and configure the CD are > not simpler than open your browser and type 138.0.0.10 in the address Most people are more scared of typing something like 138.0.0.10 into the browser and filling out the form then following the instruction for the windows program. > bar. The booklet also does not include in its 10 pages alternative > instructions for whose that run Linux, Mac, have not CD drive or older They don't care about linux and mac users, they just tell you to [EMAIL PROTECTED] off and that you are on your own. As far as they are concerned they whole world runs winxp and the rest are not worth bothering with. > PC that cannot run the dialer. Furthermore, their request of 233MHz of > minimal CPU speed not seem to be not logical for any firmware of > software dialer which is supposed to do less work than a old phone > modem. Thats because the windows program uses windows drivers on a machine that runs windows. It needs to bring up a bunch of windows and such, consume a lot of memory and cpu power due the additional gui and network libraries etc. The blackbox itself probably has the processing power of a spachler (similar to something like a 286 or a bubble gum), it's running either linux or vxworks and a tiny http webserver for the settings with no gui, 2MB of flash and 8mb of ram if not less. just in case you are interested. > Maybe is only a bad after aftertaste of my Windows ages, but I don´t > trust these CDs. > > if > > you give the average user written instructions, they are likely to make > > a mistake. > > > > --guy > > > > On Thu, 2006-10-12 at 09:13 +0200, Julian Daich wrote: > > > El jue, 12-10-2006 a las 00:17 +0200, Geoffrey S. Mendelson escribió: > > > > On Wed, Oct 11, 2006 at 11:43:57PM +0200, Julian Daich wrote: > > > > > > > > > This week I have the opportunity to connect a new Linux PC to the > > > > > Internet with Bezeq´s ADSL via an Adtech( or whatever it is called) > > > > > 600 modem/ ruter. I was surprised to find that there are not > > > > > instructions of how to set the ruter, instead they( Bezeq) give you a > > > > > CD with a program for Window to configure a dialer and a booklet of > > > > > how to install and configure that program which in fact is more > > > > > complicate that doing 138.0.0.10 from your browser from any OS and > > > > > set Admin as username and password as I did to configure the ruter. > > > > > After examining the booklet with more detail I found within the > > > > > technical requirements to have an at least 233Mhz which I suspect is > > > > > to much requirement for a simple dialer. I´m trying to understand why > > > > > Bezeq try to force users to use these dialers since it is more > > > > > complicate to users, uses too much computer resources, costs more > > > > > paper and CDs to Bezeq and from the Bezeq side there is not > > > > > difference in resources if it is the modem or the PC what diales. > > > > > > > > By law, BEZEQ can not sell you access to the Internet. All they can > > > > sell you is access to their public data network which uses the ATM > > > > protocol. > > > > > > > > I have been told, but can not verify, that the ATM network realy has no > > > > speed or access limitations, you can open a virtual connection to anyone > > > > that can receive it. > > > > > > > > I do know that at one time, and they may still do, every ISP had a > > > > guest user id that allowed you to access their network without being a > > > > subscriber. The rates were very high, IMHO only usefull if you wanted > > > > to spend a few minutes testing out an ISP or if you wanted to connect > > > > to another ISP to forward that must-go-out email when yours was down. > > > > > > > > What you call a modem is really an ethernet to ATM proctol converter > > > > or packet assembler/disassmbler or PAD. > > > > > > > > Therefore they have to use a VPN aka tunnel to connect you directly with > > > > your ISP. The ISP then can regulate your data rates and access. > > > I understand, and maybe I was not so clear with my posting. My question > > > is why Bezeq gives you a CD with a dialer instead to teach you to > > > configure the VPN which resides inside the little blackbox( aka modem or > > > ruter) which is quite easier and straightforward to do. In fact, at > > > least for the Adtech modem, you do not need the CD program which Bezeq > > > calls¨ dialer¨. Is for what it makes me suspect that maybe this program > > > is more than a dialer. > > > > > > J > > > > > > > > > > > HOT uses the same mechanism to connect their customers, but with an > > > > added twist. Routers made for the U.S. market assume that the "gateway
Re: Israeli ADSL dialers and privacy
On Thu, 12 Oct 2006 09:13:04 +0200 Julian Daich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > El jue, 12-10-2006 a las 00:17 +0200, Geoffrey S. Mendelson escribió: > > On Wed, Oct 11, 2006 at 11:43:57PM +0200, Julian Daich wrote: > > > > > This week I have the opportunity to connect a new Linux PC to the > > > Internet with Bezeq´s ADSL via an Adtech( or whatever it is called) 600 > > > modem/ ruter. I was surprised to find that there are not instructions of > > > how to set the ruter, instead they( Bezeq) give you a CD with a program > > > for Window to configure a dialer and a booklet of how to install and > > > configure that program which in fact is more complicate that doing > > > 138.0.0.10 from your browser from any OS and set Admin as username and > > > password as I did to configure the ruter. After examining the booklet > > > with more detail I found within the technical requirements to have an at > > > least 233Mhz which I suspect is to much requirement for a simple dialer. > > > I´m trying to understand why Bezeq try to force users to use these > > > dialers since it is more complicate to users, uses too much computer > > > resources, costs more paper and CDs to Bezeq and from the Bezeq side > > > there is not difference in resources if it is the modem or the PC what > > > diales. > > > > By law, BEZEQ can not sell you access to the Internet. All they can sell you > > is access to their public data network which uses the ATM protocol. > > > > I have been told, but can not verify, that the ATM network realy has no > > speed or access limitations, you can open a virtual connection to anyone > > that can receive it. > > > > I do know that at one time, and they may still do, every ISP had a guest > > user id that allowed you to access their network without being a > > subscriber. The rates were very high, IMHO only usefull if you wanted to > > spend a few minutes testing out an ISP or if you wanted to connect to > > another ISP to forward that must-go-out email when yours was down. > > > > What you call a modem is really an ethernet to ATM proctol converter > > or packet assembler/disassmbler or PAD. > > > > Therefore they have to use a VPN aka tunnel to connect you directly with > > your ISP. The ISP then can regulate your data rates and access. > I understand, and maybe I was not so clear with my posting. My question > is why Bezeq gives you a CD with a dialer instead to teach you to > configure the VPN which resides inside the little blackbox( aka modem or > ruter) which is quite easier and straightforward to do. In fact, at > least for the Adtech modem, you do not need the CD program which Bezeq > calls¨ dialer¨. Is for what it makes me suspect that maybe this program > is more than a dialer. > This way they can give the same instructions to everyone regardless of the modem. It also translates network errors for the help-desk (I once gave them the verbal error linux gave me and they were stomped since it was not the numer that they use to look up in the book which tells them how to guide you) > J > > > > > HOT uses the same mechanism to connect their customers, but with an added > > twist. Routers made for the U.S. market assume that the "gateway" is the > > IP address of both the IP gateway off of the local segment and the tunneling > > host. In Israel they are seperate and most routers sold in the U.S. will not > > work on HOT's network. > > > > There is a way around it, since HOT's network is IP over token ring, they > > can set up your connection so that all packets from your cable modem > > go to your ISP, allowing you a direct DHCP connection. Some ISPs do it, > > some won't, some charge for it, all require you to talk to many customer > > service people before you find one that understands what you want. :-) > > > > In the rest of the world, the company that sells you your xDSL service > > is also your ISP, so a VPN/tunnel is not needed. > > > > Geoff. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Israeli ADSL dialers and privacy
On Wed, 11 Oct 2006 23:43:57 +0200 Julian Daich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi all, > > This week I have the opportunity to connect a new Linux PC to the > Internet with Bezeq´s ADSL via an Adtech( or whatever it is called) 600 > modem/ ruter. I was surprised to find that there are not instructions of > how to set the ruter, instead they( Bezeq) give you a CD with a program > for Window to configure a dialer and a booklet of how to install and > configure that program which in fact is more complicate that doing > 138.0.0.10 from your browser from any OS and set Admin as username and > password as I did to configure the ruter. After examining the booklet > with more detail I found within the technical requirements to have an at > least 233Mhz which I suspect is to much requirement for a simple dialer. > I´m trying to understand why Bezeq try to force users to use these > dialers since it is more complicate to users, uses too much computer It's usually less complicated to users since the dialer they supply already includes the settings (except username and password), the technician who installs the network for you (and usually doesn't know much) doesn't have to know the modem, the process is mostly the same for "dumb" or at least "dumber" modems, they can delegate the setup work to the isp, ignore calls by linux and mac users, have network errors with numbers that they can look up in the book to guide and probably due to being Conservative. I don't think vpn is the reason since up till two weeks ago when I still used bezeq and not hot (just moved), I used pppoe and not vpn and unlike cable where you can listen on your neighbors, since you have your own line to the atm router and your vpn/vcn define where you are calling and from where. It's more of an easier management for barely trained help desk people. > resources, costs more paper and CDs to Bezeq and from the Bezeq side > there is not difference in resources if it is the modem or the PC what > diales. Is there maybe an additional factor that I´m not considering > which can concern security or privacy issues? Are these dialers free of > spyware? > To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Israeli ADSL dialers and privacy
El vie, 13-10-2006 a las 16:01 +0200, guy keren escribió: > from customer support point of view, it is easier to give people CDs > that they just need to install, then give them written instructions. The provided written instructions of how to run and configure the CD are not simpler than open your browser and type 138.0.0.10 in the address bar. The booklet also does not include in its 10 pages alternative instructions for whose that run Linux, Mac, have not CD drive or older PC that cannot run the dialer. Furthermore, their request of 233MHz of minimal CPU speed not seem to be not logical for any firmware of software dialer which is supposed to do less work than a old phone modem. Maybe is only a bad after aftertaste of my Windows ages, but I don´t trust these CDs. > if > you give the average user written instructions, they are likely to make > a mistake. > > --guy > > On Thu, 2006-10-12 at 09:13 +0200, Julian Daich wrote: > > El jue, 12-10-2006 a las 00:17 +0200, Geoffrey S. Mendelson escribió: > > > On Wed, Oct 11, 2006 at 11:43:57PM +0200, Julian Daich wrote: > > > > > > > This week I have the opportunity to connect a new Linux PC to the > > > > Internet with Bezeq´s ADSL via an Adtech( or whatever it is called) 600 > > > > modem/ ruter. I was surprised to find that there are not instructions of > > > > how to set the ruter, instead they( Bezeq) give you a CD with a program > > > > for Window to configure a dialer and a booklet of how to install and > > > > configure that program which in fact is more complicate that doing > > > > 138.0.0.10 from your browser from any OS and set Admin as username and > > > > password as I did to configure the ruter. After examining the booklet > > > > with more detail I found within the technical requirements to have an at > > > > least 233Mhz which I suspect is to much requirement for a simple dialer. > > > > I´m trying to understand why Bezeq try to force users to use these > > > > dialers since it is more complicate to users, uses too much computer > > > > resources, costs more paper and CDs to Bezeq and from the Bezeq side > > > > there is not difference in resources if it is the modem or the PC what > > > > diales. > > > > > > By law, BEZEQ can not sell you access to the Internet. All they can sell > > > you > > > is access to their public data network which uses the ATM protocol. > > > > > > I have been told, but can not verify, that the ATM network realy has no > > > speed or access limitations, you can open a virtual connection to anyone > > > that can receive it. > > > > > > I do know that at one time, and they may still do, every ISP had a guest > > > user > > > id that allowed you to access their network without being a subscriber. > > > The rates were very high, IMHO only usefull if you wanted to spend a > > > few minutes testing out an ISP or if you wanted to connect to another ISP > > > to forward that must-go-out email when yours was down. > > > > > > What you call a modem is really an ethernet to ATM proctol converter > > > or packet assembler/disassmbler or PAD. > > > > > > Therefore they have to use a VPN aka tunnel to connect you directly with > > > your ISP. The ISP then can regulate your data rates and access. > > I understand, and maybe I was not so clear with my posting. My question > > is why Bezeq gives you a CD with a dialer instead to teach you to > > configure the VPN which resides inside the little blackbox( aka modem or > > ruter) which is quite easier and straightforward to do. In fact, at > > least for the Adtech modem, you do not need the CD program which Bezeq > > calls¨ dialer¨. Is for what it makes me suspect that maybe this program > > is more than a dialer. > > > > J > > > > > > > > HOT uses the same mechanism to connect their customers, but with an added > > > twist. Routers made for the U.S. market assume that the "gateway" is the > > > IP address of both the IP gateway off of the local segment and the > > > tunneling > > > host. In Israel they are seperate and most routers sold in the U.S. will > > > not > > > work on HOT's network. > > > > > > There is a way around it, since HOT's network is IP over token ring, they > > > can set up your connection so that all packets from your cable modem > > > go to your ISP, allowing you a direct DHCP connection. Some ISPs do it, > > > some won't, some charge for it, all require you to talk to many customer > > > service people before you find one that understands what you want. :-) > > > > > > In the rest of the world, the company that sells you your xDSL service > > > is also your ISP, so a VPN/tunnel is not needed. > > > > > > Geoff. > > > = > To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with > the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command > echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] > -- Julian Daich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ==
Re: Scsi&Sata Inquiry tool for linux
Good idea,Also, if I remmeber correctly sg3utils allows to issue a SCSI RESCAN, which I can use to overcome the 'linux kernel not being aware of new LUNs' issue.2.6.x really made things sane in this area. On 10/13/06, guy keren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: [since you're a top-poster, i'll top-post too ;)]in kernel 2.4, for SCSI disks, there is support for at most 16 * 16 =256 devices. there are 16 major numbers (listed in the kernel'sdocumentation), and for each of them, there are minors 0, 16, 32, 48 that are used for the devices (the minors in between are used forpartitions, which you don't seem to care about). you could then run aloop that scans the list of combinations, and check whether each of them exists. if so - they are disks - use the standard tools to get theirinfo. to get vendor + model - use the sg_inq utility from sg3utils - itshould be available for kernel 2.4 too. note that this might alsoinclude usb mass-storage devices (disk-on-key, cameras...), since they are exposed as scsi disks.you could also look in /proc/scsi/devices for the available SCSI LUNs(this will include tapes too).i imagine you could do a similar thing with IDE and SATA disks.also note that if a new LUN is added to the network, the linux kernel will NOT notice it. i don't know if it matters to you, but just FYI.--guyOn Thu, 2006-10-12 at 11:46 +0200, Jacob Broido wrote:> Hey,> as mentioned by Amos, there is a tool called lshal, which works in > 2.6.x , not sure about 2.4.x - (Any comments on this?)> lshal is much more usefull than lspci and it provides more details> info.>> The missing information from lshal is the disk size. This can be > easily extracted using blockdev --size . ==> blockdev returned by lshal.>> 2.4.x indeed seems like a problem at the moment. On 10/12/06, Oleg Goldshmidt < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:> "Jacob Broido" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:>> > Hey, > >> >> >> > I've been looking for some time for a way to list all> scsi,sata,ide devices> > that are currently 'seen' by the linux host. > >> >> >> > The tool should do the following:> >> > 1) Find all HBAs in the host.> >> > 2)Query each HBA (should be HBA agnostic) > >> > 3) Query each device returned by HBA query, and extract the> following:> > size,type,vendor>> With 2.6 some (most?) of what you want can be done by quering > and> manipulating sysfs, e.g.,>> echo "- - -" > /sys/class/scsi_host/host[N]/scan>> will do a SCSI bus scan. With 2.4 things are more difficult, > and there> are tools that work for different HBAs, e.g., scsi-qlascan for> QLogic> etc. Unless your device is exposed (by the driver) in sysfs> you will > probably need a vendor-specific tool.>> Also, does "lspci -vvv" or similar give you anything that you> can use?>> If you find anything generic, a useful script or set of > scripts for> 2.6, do let me know.>> --> Oleg Goldshmidt | [EMAIL PROTECTED] |> http://www.goldshmidt.org --> Not gonna be king of the world if you're slave to the grind> - Skid Row-- Not gonna be king of the world if you're slave to the grind - Skid Row
Re: Israeli ADSL dialers and privacy
from customer support point of view, it is easier to give people CDs that they just need to install, then give them written instructions. if you give the average user written instructions, they are likely to make a mistake. --guy On Thu, 2006-10-12 at 09:13 +0200, Julian Daich wrote: > El jue, 12-10-2006 a las 00:17 +0200, Geoffrey S. Mendelson escribió: > > On Wed, Oct 11, 2006 at 11:43:57PM +0200, Julian Daich wrote: > > > > > This week I have the opportunity to connect a new Linux PC to the > > > Internet with Bezeq´s ADSL via an Adtech( or whatever it is called) 600 > > > modem/ ruter. I was surprised to find that there are not instructions of > > > how to set the ruter, instead they( Bezeq) give you a CD with a program > > > for Window to configure a dialer and a booklet of how to install and > > > configure that program which in fact is more complicate that doing > > > 138.0.0.10 from your browser from any OS and set Admin as username and > > > password as I did to configure the ruter. After examining the booklet > > > with more detail I found within the technical requirements to have an at > > > least 233Mhz which I suspect is to much requirement for a simple dialer. > > > I´m trying to understand why Bezeq try to force users to use these > > > dialers since it is more complicate to users, uses too much computer > > > resources, costs more paper and CDs to Bezeq and from the Bezeq side > > > there is not difference in resources if it is the modem or the PC what > > > diales. > > > > By law, BEZEQ can not sell you access to the Internet. All they can sell you > > is access to their public data network which uses the ATM protocol. > > > > I have been told, but can not verify, that the ATM network realy has no > > speed or access limitations, you can open a virtual connection to anyone > > that can receive it. > > > > I do know that at one time, and they may still do, every ISP had a guest > > user > > id that allowed you to access their network without being a subscriber. > > The rates were very high, IMHO only usefull if you wanted to spend a > > few minutes testing out an ISP or if you wanted to connect to another ISP > > to forward that must-go-out email when yours was down. > > > > What you call a modem is really an ethernet to ATM proctol converter > > or packet assembler/disassmbler or PAD. > > > > Therefore they have to use a VPN aka tunnel to connect you directly with > > your ISP. The ISP then can regulate your data rates and access. > I understand, and maybe I was not so clear with my posting. My question > is why Bezeq gives you a CD with a dialer instead to teach you to > configure the VPN which resides inside the little blackbox( aka modem or > ruter) which is quite easier and straightforward to do. In fact, at > least for the Adtech modem, you do not need the CD program which Bezeq > calls¨ dialer¨. Is for what it makes me suspect that maybe this program > is more than a dialer. > > J > > > > > HOT uses the same mechanism to connect their customers, but with an added > > twist. Routers made for the U.S. market assume that the "gateway" is the > > IP address of both the IP gateway off of the local segment and the tunneling > > host. In Israel they are seperate and most routers sold in the U.S. will not > > work on HOT's network. > > > > There is a way around it, since HOT's network is IP over token ring, they > > can set up your connection so that all packets from your cable modem > > go to your ISP, allowing you a direct DHCP connection. Some ISPs do it, > > some won't, some charge for it, all require you to talk to many customer > > service people before you find one that understands what you want. :-) > > > > In the rest of the world, the company that sells you your xDSL service > > is also your ISP, so a VPN/tunnel is not needed. > > > > Geoff. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Scsi&Sata Inquiry tool for linux
[since you're a top-poster, i'll top-post too ;)] in kernel 2.4, for SCSI disks, there is support for at most 16 * 16 = 256 devices. there are 16 major numbers (listed in the kernel's documentation), and for each of them, there are minors 0, 16, 32, 48 that are used for the devices (the minors in between are used for partitions, which you don't seem to care about). you could then run a loop that scans the list of combinations, and check whether each of them exists. if so - they are disks - use the standard tools to get their info. to get vendor + model - use the sg_inq utility from sg3utils - it should be available for kernel 2.4 too. note that this might also include usb mass-storage devices (disk-on-key, cameras...), since they are exposed as scsi disks. you could also look in /proc/scsi/devices for the available SCSI LUNs (this will include tapes too). i imagine you could do a similar thing with IDE and SATA disks. also note that if a new LUN is added to the network, the linux kernel will NOT notice it. i don't know if it matters to you, but just FYI. --guy On Thu, 2006-10-12 at 11:46 +0200, Jacob Broido wrote: > Hey, > as mentioned by Amos, there is a tool called lshal, which works in > 2.6.x , not sure about 2.4.x - (Any comments on this?) > lshal is much more usefull than lspci and it provides more details > info. > > The missing information from lshal is the disk size. This can be > easily extracted using blockdev --size . == > blockdev returned by lshal. > > 2.4.x indeed seems like a problem at the moment. > > > > On 10/12/06, Oleg Goldshmidt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > "Jacob Broido" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > Hey, > > > > > > > > I've been looking for some time for a way to list all > scsi,sata,ide devices > > that are currently 'seen' by the linux host. > > > > > > > > The tool should do the following: > > > > 1) Find all HBAs in the host. > > > > 2)Query each HBA (should be HBA agnostic) > > > > 3) Query each device returned by HBA query, and extract the > following: > > size,type,vendor > > With 2.6 some (most?) of what you want can be done by quering > and > manipulating sysfs, e.g., > > echo "- - -" > /sys/class/scsi_host/host[N]/scan > > will do a SCSI bus scan. With 2.4 things are more difficult, > and there > are tools that work for different HBAs, e.g., scsi-qlascan for > QLogic > etc. Unless your device is exposed (by the driver) in sysfs > you will > probably need a vendor-specific tool. > > Also, does "lspci -vvv" or similar give you anything that you > can use? > > If you find anything generic, a useful script or set of > scripts for > 2.6, do let me know. > > -- > Oleg Goldshmidt | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | > http://www.goldshmidt.org > > > > -- > Not gonna be king of the world if you're slave to the grind > - Skid Row = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
