Re: Why let people know about your intimate life? beery

[Michael Vasiliev]

On Monday December 31 2007, :) luxuriance wrote:
[spam]
Ugh, sorry for that, people, pressed the "approve" button twice accidentially.

-- 
Sincerely Yours,
Michael Vasiliev

Here lies the body of Jonathan Blake
Stepped on the gas instead of the brake.

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Re: webmail client, NG?

[Tzafrir Cohen]

On Tue, Jan 01, 2008 at 05:28:05PM +0200, Ori Idan wrote:
> I use gmail and like it, I do understand the issues Shlomi complained about
> and thus use also Thunderbird with gmail using as IMAP server, this way I
> have the best of both worlds.

Unless someone sends you a large file. Or the one sending you the email
is on google's blacklist. And such things.

I feel much better being in control of my mail server.

-- 
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Re: webmail client, NG?

[Ori Idan]

I use gmail and like it, I do understand the issues Shlomi complained about
and thus use also Thunderbird with gmail using as IMAP server, this way I
have the best of both worlds.

-- 
Ori Idan


On Jan 1, 2008 5:01 PM, Shlomi Fish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hi Erez!
>
> On Tuesday 01 January 2008, Erez D wrote:
> > shlomi, that was the important things ?
> >
> > what about the fact that google knows everything about you ?
> > if you use it for buying things online, than google has your name,
> adress,
> > id etc ...
> > and google knows also what you are searching for (if you search via
> google)
> > and usually knows what sites you surf to (torrent, porn, hackers etc
> ...)
> > via googleanalytics ...
> > and where you were if you are using google-maps+gps ...
> > and more 
> >
> > i think that is more important than not being able to right click ->
> reply
> > ...
> >
>
> Well, not only did you top-post, but you've diverted the discussion into a
> completely different angle. Possibly a non-sequitur -
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non_sequitur_(logic).
>  I didn't talk about the
> privacy issues involved with Google in general and GMail.com in
> particular.
> As much as I'm aware of this issue, I didn't seem to suffer from it so far
> (as Nadav mentioned) and it is global to all popular web-services in the
> WWW-oriented world. One can take some client-side measures to mitigate
> them,
> but I didn't bother so far.
>
> What I did talk about were usability problems in GMail.com, which cause me
> to
> still prefer KMail. These affect my day to day use of email, and bother me
> or
> make me more content in using the program or service.
>
> If you want to discuss the Google.com privacy issues feel free to do so,
> but I
> won't take any further part in it. These privacy issues don't affect the
> usability of the email service I'm using so I'll keep it as that.
>
> Regards,
>
>Shlomi Fish
>
> >
> > erez..
> >
> > On Jan 1, 2008 1:35 PM, Shlomi Fish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > On Monday 31 December 2007, Danny Lieberman wrote:
> > > > Ira
> > > > Why is gmail annoying you?   I can't believe you want to host your
> own
> > >
> > > mail
> > >
> > > > server - I stopped doing that a year ago and I use Google apps -
> simply
> > > > because the spam filtering is almost perfect and I don't have to
> hassle
> > > > with SA and the rest of the ball of wax.
> > >
> > > Well, I cannot speak for Ira, but I blogged about the problems that
> *I*
> > > found
> > > in gmail here:
> > >
> > > http://shlomif.livejournal.com/46955.html
> > >
> > > This is why I still prefer using KMail on my local machine instead.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > >Shlomi Fish
> > >
> > > > br
> > > > Danny
> > > >
> > > > On 12/31/07, Ira Abramov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > Gmail is starting to annoy me and I'm contemplating folding back
> to
> > >
> > > rely
> > >
> > > > > on my own system only. I'm wondering if anyone knows of a better
> > >
> > > system
> > >
> > > > > than IMP4, maybe one that supports Hebrew better, and maybe has
> some
> > >
> > > of
> > >
> > > > > the cool AJAX gadgetry I'm used to from Gmail?
> > > > >
> > > > > IMP4 is not a bad proggy, I'm just wondering if there's something
> > >
> > > better
> > >
> > > > > out there that I haven't tried or heard of yet, and HAS BEEN
> TESTED
> > > > > by the esteemed users of this group :-)
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > Ira.
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Reporting Live
> > > > > Ira Abramov
> > > > > http://ira.abramov.org/email/
> > > > >
> > > > > =
> > > > > To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
> > > > > the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command
> > > > > echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > -
> > > Shlomi Fish  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Homepage:http://www.shlomifish.org/
> > >
> > > I'm not an actor - I just play one on T.V.
> > >
> > > =
> > > To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
> > > the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command
> > > echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
> --
>
> -
> Shlomi Fish  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Homepage:http://www.shlomifish.org/
>
> I'm not an actor - I just play one on T.V.
>
> =
> To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
> the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command
> echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>


-- 
ספרים וסיפורים שכתבתי: http://www.thestories.org

RE: webmail client, NG?

[Gilboa Davara]

On Tue, 2008-01-01 at 17:40 +0200, Moshe Leibovitch wrote:
> Compare the terms and conditions regarding privacy.
> In a very fragile nut shell:
> 
> You  get only snail mail spam from your credit card company and even that is
> not targeted.
> Your ISP is not allowed to spy on you, at least not in Israel and not
> without a warrant.
> Your voice services providers are under heavy redgulations too.
> 
> Google has none ( well, almost), you are actually allowing them to do
> whatever they want,
> without telling you.
> 
> Anyway, as Nadav said, just use encryption.
> 
> 
> Unless of course you are wearing your tin foil hat:)
> 
> Moish
> e?

Because we are not meant to read messages backwards...!
> Why?
>> top-posting!
>>> Please stop
 of God
> For the love


- Gilboa



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RE: webmail client, NG?

[Moshe Leibovitch]

Compare the terms and conditions regarding privacy.
In a very fragile nut shell:

You  get only snail mail spam from your credit card company and even that is
not targeted.
Your ISP is not allowed to spy on you, at least not in Israel and not
without a warrant.
Your voice services providers are under heavy redgulations too.

Google has none ( well, almost), you are actually allowing them to do
whatever they want,
without telling you.

Anyway, as Nadav said, just use encryption.


Unless of course you are wearing your tin foil hat:)

Moish



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Nadav Har'El
Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 4:14 PM
To: Erez D
Cc: IGLU Mailing list
Subject: Re: webmail client, NG?


On Tue, Jan 01, 2008, Erez D wrote about "Re: webmail client, NG?":
> what about the fact that google knows everything about you ?

How is this any different from the fact that my ISP "knows" everything about
what I surf (much more than Google, by the way)? That my credit card company
and bank "know" everything I buy? That my phone company "knows" everything I
speak on the phone?

At some point, you simply have to assume that "knowing" and "abusing" is not
the same thing. Google can abuse the content of your mail, just like your
phone company can abuse the content of your phone calls. But both companies
have a clean track record (existed for several years with several million
users and have abused none of them), so isn't it sensible that they won't
screw with you?

In any case, for content which is really secret, you shouldn't trust Google,
your ISP or anybody - just use client-side cryptography. If you get an
encrypted mail to gmail, there is no way for Google to read it, even though
they have the encrypted content. A "secret" site would be using SSL, prevent
nasties like your ISP, phone compnay, or Google from sniffing the
connection.


--
Nadav Har'El|  Tuesday, Jan  1 2008, 23 Tevet
5768
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
|-
Phone +972-523-790466, ICQ 13349191 |My typos are intentional copyright
traps.
http://nadav.harel.org.il   |

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Re: webmail client, NG?

[Shlomi Fish]

Hi Erez!

On Tuesday 01 January 2008, Erez D wrote:
> shlomi, that was the important things ?
>
> what about the fact that google knows everything about you ?
> if you use it for buying things online, than google has your name, adress,
> id etc ...
> and google knows also what you are searching for (if you search via google)
> and usually knows what sites you surf to (torrent, porn, hackers etc ...)
> via googleanalytics ...
> and where you were if you are using google-maps+gps ...
> and more 
>
> i think that is more important than not being able to right click -> reply
> ...
>

Well, not only did you top-post, but you've diverted the discussion into a 
completely different angle. Possibly a non-sequitur - 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non_sequitur_(logic) . I didn't talk about the 
privacy issues involved with Google in general and GMail.com in particular. 
As much as I'm aware of this issue, I didn't seem to suffer from it so far 
(as Nadav mentioned) and it is global to all popular web-services in the 
WWW-oriented world. One can take some client-side measures to mitigate them, 
but I didn't bother so far.

What I did talk about were usability problems in GMail.com, which cause me to 
still prefer KMail. These affect my day to day use of email, and bother me or 
make me more content in using the program or service.

If you want to discuss the Google.com privacy issues feel free to do so, but I 
won't take any further part in it. These privacy issues don't affect the 
usability of the email service I'm using so I'll keep it as that. 

Regards,

Shlomi Fish

>
> erez..
>
> On Jan 1, 2008 1:35 PM, Shlomi Fish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Monday 31 December 2007, Danny Lieberman wrote:
> > > Ira
> > > Why is gmail annoying you?   I can't believe you want to host your own
> >
> > mail
> >
> > > server - I stopped doing that a year ago and I use Google apps - simply
> > > because the spam filtering is almost perfect and I don't have to hassle
> > > with SA and the rest of the ball of wax.
> >
> > Well, I cannot speak for Ira, but I blogged about the problems that *I*
> > found
> > in gmail here:
> >
> > http://shlomif.livejournal.com/46955.html
> >
> > This is why I still prefer using KMail on my local machine instead.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> >Shlomi Fish
> >
> > > br
> > > Danny
> > >
> > > On 12/31/07, Ira Abramov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > Gmail is starting to annoy me and I'm contemplating folding back to
> >
> > rely
> >
> > > > on my own system only. I'm wondering if anyone knows of a better
> >
> > system
> >
> > > > than IMP4, maybe one that supports Hebrew better, and maybe has some
> >
> > of
> >
> > > > the cool AJAX gadgetry I'm used to from Gmail?
> > > >
> > > > IMP4 is not a bad proggy, I'm just wondering if there's something
> >
> > better
> >
> > > > out there that I haven't tried or heard of yet, and HAS BEEN TESTED
> > > > by the esteemed users of this group :-)
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Ira.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Reporting Live
> > > > Ira Abramov
> > > > http://ira.abramov.org/email/
> > > >
> > > > =
> > > > To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
> > > > the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command
> > > > echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > --
> >
> > -
> > Shlomi Fish  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Homepage:http://www.shlomifish.org/
> >
> > I'm not an actor - I just play one on T.V.
> >
> > =
> > To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
> > the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command
> > echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]



-- 

-
Shlomi Fish  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage:http://www.shlomifish.org/

I'm not an actor - I just play one on T.V.

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subscribe

[Israel David]

Is there a course for sysadmin for Debian

[Ehud Karni]

My daughter boyfriend is working for small Internet company. Part of
his job is system administrating of the Linux server (Debian). He
wants to learn more about it, He does not need the certification,
but prefers a class (with a teacher), something like the RHCE for
Red Hat. So, is there such a class in Israel for Debian ?

Ehud.


--
 Ehud Karni   Tel: +972-3-7966-561  /"\
 Mivtach - Simon  Fax: +972-3-7966-667  \ /  ASCII Ribbon Campaign
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Re: webmail client, NG?

[Nadav Har'El]

On Tue, Jan 01, 2008, Erez D wrote about "Re: webmail client, NG?":
> what about the fact that google knows everything about you ?

How is this any different from the fact that my ISP "knows" everything about
what I surf (much more than Google, by the way)? That my credit card company
and bank "know" everything I buy? That my phone company "knows" everything I
speak on the phone?

At some point, you simply have to assume that "knowing" and "abusing" is not
the same thing. Google can abuse the content of your mail, just like your
phone company can abuse the content of your phone calls. But both companies
have a clean track record (existed for several years with several million
users and have abused none of them), so isn't it sensible that they won't
screw with you?

In any case, for content which is really secret, you shouldn't trust Google,
your ISP or anybody - just use client-side cryptography. If you get an
encrypted mail to gmail, there is no way for Google to read it, even though
they have the encrypted content. A "secret" site would be using SSL, prevent
nasties like your ISP, phone compnay, or Google from sniffing the connection.


-- 
Nadav Har'El|  Tuesday, Jan  1 2008, 23 Tevet 5768
[EMAIL PROTECTED] |-
Phone +972-523-790466, ICQ 13349191 |My typos are intentional copyright traps.
http://nadav.harel.org.il   |

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Re: webmail client, NG?

[Erez D]

shlomi, that was the important things ?

what about the fact that google knows everything about you ?
if you use it for buying things online, than google has your name, adress,
id etc ...
and google knows also what you are searching for (if you search via google)
and usually knows what sites you surf to (torrent, porn, hackers etc ...)
via googleanalytics ...
and where you were if you are using google-maps+gps ...
and more 

i think that is more important than not being able to right click -> reply
...


erez..

On Jan 1, 2008 1:35 PM, Shlomi Fish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Monday 31 December 2007, Danny Lieberman wrote:
> > Ira
> > Why is gmail annoying you?   I can't believe you want to host your own
> mail
> > server - I stopped doing that a year ago and I use Google apps - simply
> > because the spam filtering is almost perfect and I don't have to hassle
> > with SA and the rest of the ball of wax.
>
> Well, I cannot speak for Ira, but I blogged about the problems that *I*
> found
> in gmail here:
>
> http://shlomif.livejournal.com/46955.html
>
> This is why I still prefer using KMail on my local machine instead.
>
> Regards,
>
>Shlomi Fish
>
> > br
> > Danny
> >
> > On 12/31/07, Ira Abramov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Gmail is starting to annoy me and I'm contemplating folding back to
> rely
> > > on my own system only. I'm wondering if anyone knows of a better
> system
> > > than IMP4, maybe one that supports Hebrew better, and maybe has some
> of
> > > the cool AJAX gadgetry I'm used to from Gmail?
> > >
> > > IMP4 is not a bad proggy, I'm just wondering if there's something
> better
> > > out there that I haven't tried or heard of yet, and HAS BEEN TESTED by
> > > the esteemed users of this group :-)
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Ira.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Reporting Live
> > > Ira Abramov
> > > http://ira.abramov.org/email/
> > >
> > > =
> > > To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
> > > the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command
> > > echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
> --
>
> -
> Shlomi Fish  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Homepage:http://www.shlomifish.org/
>
> I'm not an actor - I just play one on T.V.
>
> =
> To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
> the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command
> echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>

Re: webmail client, NG?

[Shlomi Fish]

On Monday 31 December 2007, Danny Lieberman wrote:
> Ira
> Why is gmail annoying you?   I can't believe you want to host your own mail
> server - I stopped doing that a year ago and I use Google apps - simply
> because the spam filtering is almost perfect and I don't have to hassle
> with SA and the rest of the ball of wax.

Well, I cannot speak for Ira, but I blogged about the problems that *I* found 
in gmail here:

http://shlomif.livejournal.com/46955.html

This is why I still prefer using KMail on my local machine instead.

Regards,

Shlomi Fish

> br
> Danny
>
> On 12/31/07, Ira Abramov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Gmail is starting to annoy me and I'm contemplating folding back to rely
> > on my own system only. I'm wondering if anyone knows of a better system
> > than IMP4, maybe one that supports Hebrew better, and maybe has some of
> > the cool AJAX gadgetry I'm used to from Gmail?
> >
> > IMP4 is not a bad proggy, I'm just wondering if there's something better
> > out there that I haven't tried or heard of yet, and HAS BEEN TESTED by
> > the esteemed users of this group :-)
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Ira.
> >
> > --
> > Reporting Live
> > Ira Abramov
> > http://ira.abramov.org/email/
> >
> > =
> > To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
> > the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command
> > echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]



-- 

-
Shlomi Fish  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage:http://www.shlomifish.org/

I'm not an actor - I just play one on T.V.

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