next smartphone thoughts
It is time to get a new smartphone. so i have to choose one. Some history: for a long time i wanted a GNU/Linux phone, and when the moco arrived, i was happy. While I was thinking of getting a moco, happy about the freedom but not happy about it lagging technology-wise, there was a new better gnu/linux phone - the Nokia N900 This was really good news, the biggest cellular manufacturer - nokia, is thinking open source is the way. So I got myself an N900, and was very happy with it. i compiled a kernel, installed gnu/linux programs on it, and actually used it as a computer. Then nokia abandoned the N900's OS - maemo (when the N900 was around 1 year on the market) , in favor of a new one, called Meego. that was sad for the N900 users as it ment no more support for the N900. But it was not that dire for the open source people, as meego was supposed to be another GNU/Linux open source os. it's like replacing debian with redhat. That is not nice for maemo lovers/users, but it's not like abandoning open source whatsoever. But then nokia decided to abandon meego in favor of windows mobile... this was a major shock. I thought a company like nokia has some unwritten obligation to it's customers - not to abandon their products after such a short time, especially if these products were only half baked to begin with (N900 came with no mms, no videocall, calender not full baked) etc...) awaiting updates to make it fully baked. so i was wrong and felt abandoned twice ... (once for maemo for meego, once for meego for wp7) now for my problem - i need to get a new smartphone (from work), and wanted a gnu/linux one. My options: 1. iphone - not gnu/linux nor open. actually this is the closest as can be in terms of free as speech. 2. symbian - deprecated. should be open somtimes (i wouldn't get my hopes up for nokia promises) 3. webos - gnu/linux but deprecated 4. maemo - gnu/linux but deprecated 5. meego (N9) - though about it, but once bitten from nokia - twice shy. nokia does not even say they expect to continue with meego 6. android - live and kicking, actually the most popular. it is somehow open, and linux kernel. not gnu though. So i have to choose one of these. I thought about android (galaxy s2). but i do not like it that i need to program only in java, and that when i install apps, even simple as clock widget - they require full access to my addressbook, to my setting and to the internet. I would love to block it via other ways (selinux/apparmor/iptables etc...). I miss my linux apps. (can run in any way a gnu/linbux dist under chroot ?) can i write non java apps and give to my friends ? what are your thoughts on the issue ? thanks, erez. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: next smartphone thoughts
Hi, I read your email and I was quite amused how you gave Free to iOS. In what terms is it free? can you get the iOS code under *any* license? no. Can you modify it? no. On the Android side you're yelling it's not GNU. It isn't, but you can get gingerbread code (AOSP) without any issue. No, you don't need to write your application in Java. You can write them in Perl, Shell, whatever, as long as you're installing the needed libraries. I have full Bash, Apache, OpenSSH (server client), PHP and other stuff running just find on my Nook Color, and I'm sure you can do it too on Galaxy S2. As for preventing access from APK to parts of your device, I'm sure that there are applications which can help you limit the access. I haven't played with it before. So my recommendation: Take Galaxy S-2 (or the new LG which is faster then S2, don't remember it's name) and use it. Until you do, install Android SDK on your machine, and use the emulator to run Gingerbread, and play with it, install stuff on it, see how do you feel with the system. Good Luck, Hetz 2011/8/26 Erez D erez0...@gmail.com It is time to get a new smartphone. so i have to choose one. Some history: for a long time i wanted a GNU/Linux phone, and when the moco arrived, i was happy. While I was thinking of getting a moco, happy about the freedom but not happy about it lagging technology-wise, there was a new better gnu/linux phone - the Nokia N900 This was really good news, the biggest cellular manufacturer - nokia, is thinking open source is the way. So I got myself an N900, and was very happy with it. i compiled a kernel, installed gnu/linux programs on it, and actually used it as a computer. Then nokia abandoned the N900's OS - maemo (when the N900 was around 1 year on the market) , in favor of a new one, called Meego. that was sad for the N900 users as it ment no more support for the N900. But it was not that dire for the open source people, as meego was supposed to be another GNU/Linux open source os. it's like replacing debian with redhat. That is not nice for maemo lovers/users, but it's not like abandoning open source whatsoever. But then nokia decided to abandon meego in favor of windows mobile... this was a major shock. I thought a company like nokia has some unwritten obligation to it's customers - not to abandon their products after such a short time, especially if these products were only half baked to begin with (N900 came with no mms, no videocall, calender not full baked) etc...) awaiting updates to make it fully baked. so i was wrong and felt abandoned twice ... (once for maemo for meego, once for meego for wp7) now for my problem - i need to get a new smartphone (from work), and wanted a gnu/linux one. My options: 1. iphone - not gnu/linux nor open. actually this is the closest as can be in terms of free as speech. 2. symbian - deprecated. should be open somtimes (i wouldn't get my hopes up for nokia promises) 3. webos - gnu/linux but deprecated 4. maemo - gnu/linux but deprecated 5. meego (N9) - though about it, but once bitten from nokia - twice shy. nokia does not even say they expect to continue with meego 6. android - live and kicking, actually the most popular. it is somehow open, and linux kernel. not gnu though. So i have to choose one of these. I thought about android (galaxy s2). but i do not like it that i need to program only in java, and that when i install apps, even simple as clock widget - they require full access to my addressbook, to my setting and to the internet. I would love to block it via other ways (selinux/apparmor/iptables etc...). I miss my linux apps. (can run in any way a gnu/linbux dist under chroot ?) can i write non java apps and give to my friends ? what are your thoughts on the issue ? thanks, erez. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il -- *חץ בן חמו חץ-ביז *השכרה ואירוח של שרתים פיזיים מעוניין להשתמש בשרותים שחסומים לגולש הישראלי? Hulu? NetFlix? Pandora? Google Voice? אם כן, היכנס לכאן http://vps.net.bz/?p=406. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: next smartphone thoughts
On Aug 26, 2011, at 1:10 PM, Erez D wrote: 1. iphone - not gnu/linux nor open. actually this is the closest as can be in terms of free as speech. It's also in terms of availabilty and likelyhood of apps. There are a lot more iPhones in the world than any other smart phone, and if you are expecting an app to be developed commercially, it will be there first. It may not matter to you, it might. There are the usual apps that people use, such as a web browser, telnet, ssh, etc. But also a wonderful Hebrew-English (or vice versa) talking dictionary, apps from you kupat cholim and bank, etc. So in terms of use, an iPhone may be the more useful device. It also scales nicely to an iPad, so you can have the same Apps on a more comfortable to see and type platform. Android - live and kicking, actually the most popular. it is somehow open, and linux kernel. not gnu though. Most popular linux, btw, IMHO there are a lot more iPhones. Yes, but how long is google going to be so nice and what will they be adding to promote their main business, advertising? Does it have the apps you want? Will it? What does Google being in competition with all the other Android vendors mean? Will Samung develop their own device and drop android? Samung was a big linux device vendor long before Android. LG? All the other little cell phone companies? So i have to choose one of these. I thought about android (galaxy s2). but i do not like it that i need to program only in java, and that when i install apps, even simple as clock widget - they require full access to my addressbook, to my setting and to the internet. It's too much like an iPhone for my taste. A friend brought one over and I could not tell it from my kids' iPods Touch. Too much copying and not enough inovation. I would love to block it via other ways (selinux/apparmor/iptables etc...). I miss my linux apps. (can run in any way a gnu/linbux dist under chroot ?) can i write non java apps and give to my friends ? what are your thoughts on the issue ? It's no help to you now, but I think the market being narrowed down to iOS and Android is a great thing for the world. There will be a lot of people who can do better and while almost all of them will crash and burn, a few will actually produce something better and people will buy it. Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson, N3OWJ/4X1GM ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: next smartphone thoughts
On 08/26/2011 02:10 PM, Erez D wrote: It is time to get a new smartphone. so i have to choose one. [snip] and wanted a gnu/linux one. My options: 1. iphone - not gnu/linux nor open. actually this is the closest as can be in terms of free as speech. What. 2. symbian - deprecated. should be open somtimes (i wouldn't get my hopes up for nokia promises) No, I have one. As long as you shell out $$$ for apps, it works. That is, for a while, until the certs expire. Development is not intuitive, cumbersome, unsupported, undocumented and currently just plain out impossible, as nokia dropped and privately archived all support sites and the development platform does not work at anything but WinXP. 3. webos - gnu/linux but deprecated Seems to be in Gone status, and changing hands, any attempt to run it now is pure necrophilia. 4. maemo - gnu/linux but deprecated Still going, albeit somewhat slow. An advantage is that you already have the knowledge and experience. And some of the specs and drivers are already there in the open. 5. meego (N9) - though about it, but once bitten from nokia - twice shy. nokia does not even say they expect to continue with meego Not on the market yet.^W^W^W^W^WJust announced, ergo buggy. NO KEYBOARD. Say you've bricked your phone or locked it down. How are you going to bring it back without a keyboard? Personally, I don't like either wiping off fingerprints or when a on-screen keyboard obscures the most of, already scarce, available surface. So, it's an option, as long as the company would like to open its chest of secrets. However, I would strongly consider the silently announced brother phone N950 instead if I were you. 6. android - live and kicking, actually the most popular. it is somehow open, and linux kernel. not gnu though. As much as I like Google for being the best among the worst, as a security person, I cannot hope but comment that, sadly, it has a long-running record of negligence or, rather, lack of foresight for the privacy and security of both its customers and users. As a very closed company, the policy of rewarding the researchers and silently closing down vulnerabilities instead of releasing public advisories really does no justice to its public image. Someone has to understand that a situation where people are paid for their silence and every unchecked privacy issue turns into a scandal is not the way to go. Especially for the company that would like to see its services to be an integral part of our lives. Better security practices have to be implemented both in production and in development. That also applies to the mobile market, even in the greater sense. As for the OS, AFAIK, the base system is available freely. However, when being stripped of the closed-source code, the device and OS lose most of their appeal. It does not attract the same kind of developers that made a half-made and quickly abandoned Nokia N900 so good, eventually. -- MichaelV ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: next smartphone thoughts
On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 01:10:09PM +0300, Erez D wrote: So I got myself an N900, and was very happy with it. i compiled a kernel, installed gnu/linux programs on it, and actually used it as a computer. Then nokia abandoned the N900's OS - maemo (when the N900 was around 1 year on the market) , in favor of a new one, called Meego. that was sad for the N900 users as it ment no more support for the N900. This is not exactly true. While Nokia does not support it anymore, there is a fairly decent community support. Which means: not the next phone to buy at this point, but don't give up on it if you already have one. But it was not that dire for the open source people, as meego was supposed to be another GNU/Linux open source os. it's like replacing debian with redhat. That is not nice for maemo lovers/users, but it's not like abandoning open source whatsoever. But then nokia decided to abandon meego in favor of windows mobile... this was a major shock. I thought a company like nokia has some unwritten obligation to it's customers - not to abandon their products after such a short time, especially if these products were only half baked to begin with (N900 came with no mms, no videocall, calender not full baked) etc...) awaiting updates to make it fully baked. so i was wrong and felt abandoned twice ... (once for maemo for meego, once for meego for wp7) now for my problem - i need to get a new smartphone (from work), and wanted a gnu/linux one. My options: 1. iphone - not gnu/linux nor open. actually this is the closest as can be in terms of free as speech. 2. symbian - deprecated. should be open somtimes (i wouldn't get my hopes up for nokia promises) Nokia opened, and then closed it. There was never any developer's phone available for developers to hack on the released Symbian code. 3. webos - gnu/linux but deprecated Dead? 4. maemo - gnu/linux but deprecated 5. meego (N9) - though about it, but once bitten from nokia - twice shy. nokia does not even say they expect to continue with meego The N9 is not exactly Meego. It's actually Maemo6 (something in between Maemo and Meego). I'm not aware of any Meego phone available (besides the N900, if you brite-force it). 6. android - live and kicking, actually the most popular. it is somehow open, and linux kernel. not gnu though. Linux, but not GNU/Linux (completely different userland). -- Tzafrir Cohen | tzaf...@jabber.org | VIM is http://tzafrir.org.il || a Mutt's tzaf...@cohens.org.il || best tzaf...@debian.org|| friend ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
