Re: Advice on lightweight laptops for Linux (of course)

[E.S. Rosenberg]

I have an Asus machine, it is now ~4.5 years old, I gave it an SSD
upgrade and replaced the battery last summer (1.5 years ago) and the
only thing really bothering me a bit these days is that I have only
4GB of RAM so with mild worry I ended up enabling swap on my SSD.

By the time the SSD goes I'll probably end up buying a new machine, my
next machine should have at the very least 8 if not 16-32G of RAM, I
expect this machine to last at least until coming summer and I may
even take it all the way to 6 years.
I also expect that people with better/less intense computer haibts
will still be able to get excellent results out of it well after I
retire it from my use (my mother used a P3-600 desktop machine from
2000-2012 thanks to linux and some upgrades, until it finally died).

Regards,
Eliyahu - אליהו

2016-12-27 21:01 GMT+02:00 Dan Yasny :
> The point here is that they sacrifice a lot of the think* series sturdiness
> for the lack of weight and thickness. And you can't upgrade the thing, it's
> all a single block you can't take apart. There's also a problem with later
> kernels getting mces and panics on overheating because of a bug in the way
> the kernel manages pstates - dynamic turbo  mode or whatever intel call it.
> The only way around I found is to disable pstates altogether.
>
> On Dec 27, 2016 1:32 PM, "Michael Shiloh" 
> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks Dan for your perspective. I'm actually going to teaching in Abu
>> Dhabi next September so I'm really glad you brought that up.
>>
>> In general, I've been hearing good things about the current model (4th
>> generation) which I believe came out earlier this year, so I assume
>> your model is something prior. Is that correct? On the other hand, the
>> current model has only been around for a year, so fewer opportunities
>> to fail.
>>
>> Michael
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 26, 2016 at 5:02 PM, Dan Yasny  wrote:
>> > I've been carrying an X1 around for a couple of years now. The battery
>> > life
>> > is great, Fedora support is great, weight and convenience is quite good,
>> > except the keyboard is a bit on the weird side when it comes to the
>> > function
>> > keys and the missing insert key, but I've learned to live with that.
>> >
>> > The downside however is the reliability. In this time I've had the
>> > screen
>> > replaced, the keyboard replaced and the motherboard/cpu/ram/etc (it's
>> > all a
>> > single block) replaced. Each time it takes a week at the lab (I don't
>> > have
>> > the onsite warranty, and I am in Canada, so YMMV). So if you intend to
>> > use
>> > it somewhere where warranty isn't available, or if you intend to use it
>> > longer than the warranty period - stay away. It's expensive enough to be
>> > expected to last, but it's quite flimsy.
>> >
>> > On Mon, Dec 26, 2016 at 6:09 PM, Michael Shiloh
>> >  wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Thanks Eli,
>> >>
>> >> What kind of laptop do you use?
>> >>
>> >> Michael
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Dec 26, 2016 at 2:30 PM, E.S. Rosenberg
>> >>  wrote:
>> >> > Ever since getting my current laptop that weighs ~1.5kg I said I will
>> >> > never get anything heavier again, it's something you can't return
>> >> > from.
>> >> >
>> >> > Thin and light devices (like the X1 and the T460S) tend to not be
>> >> > very
>> >> > upgradeable, it's a price you pay for thin & light... the SSD is most
>> >> > likely upgradeable on any model you choose because so far soldered on
>> >> > SSDs aren't all that common
>> >> >
>> >> > The videos on youtube clearly show that the T460S has at least one
>> >> > SODIMM slot, the X1 does not seem to have it.
>> >> >
>> >> > Regards,
>> >> > Eliyahu - אליהו
>> >> >
>> >> > 2016-12-26 23:37 GMT+02:00 Michael Shiloh
>> >> > :
>> >> >> Hello everyone,
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I hope everyone is enjoying a very happy Chanukah.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> You might recall about a year ago I raised the question of a
>> >> >> powerful
>> >> >> laptop for Linux. I settled on a Thinkpad W541 and I am thrilled
>> >> >> with
>> >> >> it ... except for the weight.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> As I travel more and don't need the power of the W541 all the time,
>> >> >> I'm thinking of a lightweight laptop for daily use.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> It's hard for me to consider anything but Thinkpads: I love the
>> >> >> TrackPoint, the keyboard, the solid feel of the devices, etc. Given
>> >> >> that, the top two contenders are the X1 Carbon and the T460S.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> The X1 is about 2.6 pounds and more expensive than the T460S which
>> >> >> weighs about 3 pounds.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Another big difference is whether the RAM and/or SSD can be upgraded
>> >> >> on the X1 (I've seen equally strong claims that they can and can
>> >> >> not).
>> >> >> Some conversations insist they are soldered in, other say that
>> >> >> perhaps
>> >> >> the RAM can be upgraded by the user but is a non-standard form
>> 

Re: Advice on lightweight laptops for Linux (of course)

[Dan Yasny]

The point here is that they sacrifice a lot of the think* series sturdiness
for the lack of weight and thickness. And you can't upgrade the thing, it's
all a single block you can't take apart. There's also a problem with later
kernels getting mces and panics on overheating because of a bug in the way
the kernel manages pstates - dynamic turbo  mode or whatever intel call it.
The only way around I found is to disable pstates altogether.

On Dec 27, 2016 1:32 PM, "Michael Shiloh" 
wrote:

> Thanks Dan for your perspective. I'm actually going to teaching in Abu
> Dhabi next September so I'm really glad you brought that up.
>
> In general, I've been hearing good things about the current model (4th
> generation) which I believe came out earlier this year, so I assume
> your model is something prior. Is that correct? On the other hand, the
> current model has only been around for a year, so fewer opportunities
> to fail.
>
> Michael
>
> On Mon, Dec 26, 2016 at 5:02 PM, Dan Yasny  wrote:
> > I've been carrying an X1 around for a couple of years now. The battery
> life
> > is great, Fedora support is great, weight and convenience is quite good,
> > except the keyboard is a bit on the weird side when it comes to the
> function
> > keys and the missing insert key, but I've learned to live with that.
> >
> > The downside however is the reliability. In this time I've had the screen
> > replaced, the keyboard replaced and the motherboard/cpu/ram/etc (it's
> all a
> > single block) replaced. Each time it takes a week at the lab (I don't
> have
> > the onsite warranty, and I am in Canada, so YMMV). So if you intend to
> use
> > it somewhere where warranty isn't available, or if you intend to use it
> > longer than the warranty period - stay away. It's expensive enough to be
> > expected to last, but it's quite flimsy.
> >
> > On Mon, Dec 26, 2016 at 6:09 PM, Michael Shiloh
> >  wrote:
> >>
> >> Thanks Eli,
> >>
> >> What kind of laptop do you use?
> >>
> >> Michael
> >>
> >> On Mon, Dec 26, 2016 at 2:30 PM, E.S. Rosenberg
> >>  wrote:
> >> > Ever since getting my current laptop that weighs ~1.5kg I said I will
> >> > never get anything heavier again, it's something you can't return
> >> > from.
> >> >
> >> > Thin and light devices (like the X1 and the T460S) tend to not be very
> >> > upgradeable, it's a price you pay for thin & light... the SSD is most
> >> > likely upgradeable on any model you choose because so far soldered on
> >> > SSDs aren't all that common
> >> >
> >> > The videos on youtube clearly show that the T460S has at least one
> >> > SODIMM slot, the X1 does not seem to have it.
> >> >
> >> > Regards,
> >> > Eliyahu - אליהו
> >> >
> >> > 2016-12-26 23:37 GMT+02:00 Michael Shiloh <
> michaelshiloh1...@gmail.com>:
> >> >> Hello everyone,
> >> >>
> >> >> I hope everyone is enjoying a very happy Chanukah.
> >> >>
> >> >> You might recall about a year ago I raised the question of a powerful
> >> >> laptop for Linux. I settled on a Thinkpad W541 and I am thrilled with
> >> >> it ... except for the weight.
> >> >>
> >> >> As I travel more and don't need the power of the W541 all the time,
> >> >> I'm thinking of a lightweight laptop for daily use.
> >> >>
> >> >> It's hard for me to consider anything but Thinkpads: I love the
> >> >> TrackPoint, the keyboard, the solid feel of the devices, etc. Given
> >> >> that, the top two contenders are the X1 Carbon and the T460S.
> >> >>
> >> >> The X1 is about 2.6 pounds and more expensive than the T460S which
> >> >> weighs about 3 pounds.
> >> >>
> >> >> Another big difference is whether the RAM and/or SSD can be upgraded
> >> >> on the X1 (I've seen equally strong claims that they can and can
> not).
> >> >> Some conversations insist they are soldered in, other say that
> perhaps
> >> >> the RAM can be upgraded by the user but is a non-standard form factor
> >> >> that can only be purchased from Lenovo.
> >> >>
> >> >> I think for the extra .4 pounds I'm willing to go with the better
> >> >> price of the T460S, especially if upgrading RAM and SSD is not
> >> >> possible on the X1 (I usually purchase from Lenovo with less storage
> >> >> and upgrade on my own).
> >> >>
> >> >> Any thoughts or advice?
> >> >>
> >> >> ___
> >> >> Linux-il mailing list
> >> >> Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
> >> >> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Linux-il mailing list
> >> Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
> >> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
> >
> >
>
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Re: Advice on lightweight laptops for Linux (of course)

[Michael Shiloh]

Thanks Dan for your perspective. I'm actually going to teaching in Abu
Dhabi next September so I'm really glad you brought that up.

In general, I've been hearing good things about the current model (4th
generation) which I believe came out earlier this year, so I assume
your model is something prior. Is that correct? On the other hand, the
current model has only been around for a year, so fewer opportunities
to fail.

Michael

On Mon, Dec 26, 2016 at 5:02 PM, Dan Yasny  wrote:
> I've been carrying an X1 around for a couple of years now. The battery life
> is great, Fedora support is great, weight and convenience is quite good,
> except the keyboard is a bit on the weird side when it comes to the function
> keys and the missing insert key, but I've learned to live with that.
>
> The downside however is the reliability. In this time I've had the screen
> replaced, the keyboard replaced and the motherboard/cpu/ram/etc (it's all a
> single block) replaced. Each time it takes a week at the lab (I don't have
> the onsite warranty, and I am in Canada, so YMMV). So if you intend to use
> it somewhere where warranty isn't available, or if you intend to use it
> longer than the warranty period - stay away. It's expensive enough to be
> expected to last, but it's quite flimsy.
>
> On Mon, Dec 26, 2016 at 6:09 PM, Michael Shiloh
>  wrote:
>>
>> Thanks Eli,
>>
>> What kind of laptop do you use?
>>
>> Michael
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 26, 2016 at 2:30 PM, E.S. Rosenberg
>>  wrote:
>> > Ever since getting my current laptop that weighs ~1.5kg I said I will
>> > never get anything heavier again, it's something you can't return
>> > from.
>> >
>> > Thin and light devices (like the X1 and the T460S) tend to not be very
>> > upgradeable, it's a price you pay for thin & light... the SSD is most
>> > likely upgradeable on any model you choose because so far soldered on
>> > SSDs aren't all that common
>> >
>> > The videos on youtube clearly show that the T460S has at least one
>> > SODIMM slot, the X1 does not seem to have it.
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > Eliyahu - אליהו
>> >
>> > 2016-12-26 23:37 GMT+02:00 Michael Shiloh :
>> >> Hello everyone,
>> >>
>> >> I hope everyone is enjoying a very happy Chanukah.
>> >>
>> >> You might recall about a year ago I raised the question of a powerful
>> >> laptop for Linux. I settled on a Thinkpad W541 and I am thrilled with
>> >> it ... except for the weight.
>> >>
>> >> As I travel more and don't need the power of the W541 all the time,
>> >> I'm thinking of a lightweight laptop for daily use.
>> >>
>> >> It's hard for me to consider anything but Thinkpads: I love the
>> >> TrackPoint, the keyboard, the solid feel of the devices, etc. Given
>> >> that, the top two contenders are the X1 Carbon and the T460S.
>> >>
>> >> The X1 is about 2.6 pounds and more expensive than the T460S which
>> >> weighs about 3 pounds.
>> >>
>> >> Another big difference is whether the RAM and/or SSD can be upgraded
>> >> on the X1 (I've seen equally strong claims that they can and can not).
>> >> Some conversations insist they are soldered in, other say that perhaps
>> >> the RAM can be upgraded by the user but is a non-standard form factor
>> >> that can only be purchased from Lenovo.
>> >>
>> >> I think for the extra .4 pounds I'm willing to go with the better
>> >> price of the T460S, especially if upgrading RAM and SSD is not
>> >> possible on the X1 (I usually purchase from Lenovo with less storage
>> >> and upgrade on my own).
>> >>
>> >> Any thoughts or advice?
>> >>
>> >> ___
>> >> Linux-il mailing list
>> >> Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
>> >> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>
>> ___
>> Linux-il mailing list
>> Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
>

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Re: Advice on lightweight laptops for Linux (of course)

[Meir Michanie]

I bought a DELL inspiron 7559 with the hybrid graphic card. It is the worst
laptop I ever had, All distros have issues with it. I wanted the laptop to
use the GPU and therefore preferred to use the nvidia driver.
Battery life sucks. keyboard seems to be fragile. Stay away from Dell at
least from the 7559.

On Tue, 27 Dec 2016 at 14:04 Rabin Yasharzadehe  wrote:

> My 2c for this discussion is ,
>
> *STAY AWAY FROM HYBRID DISPLAYS !!! (aka Optimus or any other
> implementation) *
>
> The current state is disaster, with some minimal support.
> Only recently Fedora (25) took it as priority to support hybrid graphics
> cards out of the box (in Gnome3 only).
> and even then only with nouveau driver.
>
> Stick with Intel !
>
> Also check for multi display support with Linux when using a Dockstation.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Rabin
>
> On 26 December 2016 at 23:37, Michael Shiloh 
> wrote:
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> I hope everyone is enjoying a very happy Chanukah.
>
> You might recall about a year ago I raised the question of a powerful
> laptop for Linux. I settled on a Thinkpad W541 and I am thrilled with
> it ... except for the weight.
>
> As I travel more and don't need the power of the W541 all the time,
> I'm thinking of a lightweight laptop for daily use.
>
> It's hard for me to consider anything but Thinkpads: I love the
> TrackPoint, the keyboard, the solid feel of the devices, etc. Given
> that, the top two contenders are the X1 Carbon and the T460S.
>
> The X1 is about 2.6 pounds and more expensive than the T460S which
> weighs about 3 pounds.
>
> Another big difference is whether the RAM and/or SSD can be upgraded
> on the X1 (I've seen equally strong claims that they can and can not).
> Some conversations insist they are soldered in, other say that perhaps
> the RAM can be upgraded by the user but is a non-standard form factor
> that can only be purchased from Lenovo.
>
> I think for the extra .4 pounds I'm willing to go with the better
> price of the T460S, especially if upgrading RAM and SSD is not
> possible on the X1 (I usually purchase from Lenovo with less storage
> and upgrade on my own).
>
> Any thoughts or advice?
>
> ___
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
>
> ___
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
-- 
Meir Michanie
RIUNX - Open source solutions
http://www.riunx.com
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Re: Advice on lightweight laptops for Linux (of course)

[Rabin Yasharzadehe]

My 2c for this discussion is ,

*STAY AWAY FROM HYBRID DISPLAYS !!! (aka Optimus or any other
implementation) *

The current state is disaster, with some minimal support.
Only recently Fedora (25) took it as priority to support hybrid graphics
cards out of the box (in Gnome3 only).
and even then only with nouveau driver.

Stick with Intel !

Also check for multi display support with Linux when using a Dockstation.






--
Rabin

On 26 December 2016 at 23:37, Michael Shiloh 
wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> I hope everyone is enjoying a very happy Chanukah.
>
> You might recall about a year ago I raised the question of a powerful
> laptop for Linux. I settled on a Thinkpad W541 and I am thrilled with
> it ... except for the weight.
>
> As I travel more and don't need the power of the W541 all the time,
> I'm thinking of a lightweight laptop for daily use.
>
> It's hard for me to consider anything but Thinkpads: I love the
> TrackPoint, the keyboard, the solid feel of the devices, etc. Given
> that, the top two contenders are the X1 Carbon and the T460S.
>
> The X1 is about 2.6 pounds and more expensive than the T460S which
> weighs about 3 pounds.
>
> Another big difference is whether the RAM and/or SSD can be upgraded
> on the X1 (I've seen equally strong claims that they can and can not).
> Some conversations insist they are soldered in, other say that perhaps
> the RAM can be upgraded by the user but is a non-standard form factor
> that can only be purchased from Lenovo.
>
> I think for the extra .4 pounds I'm willing to go with the better
> price of the T460S, especially if upgrading RAM and SSD is not
> possible on the X1 (I usually purchase from Lenovo with less storage
> and upgrade on my own).
>
> Any thoughts or advice?
>
> ___
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
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Re: Advice on lightweight laptops for Linux (of course)

[Shay Gover]

My favorite lightweight DEs are:
1) LxQT: really lightweight (system requirement is 128MB RAM) but some
features are missing.
2) Mate or Xfce: Require 512MB of RAM but have all the features.

As for distros, I suggest arch or debian-unstable. They don't install
anything extra (i.e. If you didn't install it, it's probably not there :) )

Shay Gover

On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 3:02 AM, Dan Yasny  wrote:

> I've been carrying an X1 around for a couple of years now. The battery
> life is great, Fedora support is great, weight and convenience is quite
> good, except the keyboard is a bit on the weird side when it comes to the
> function keys and the missing insert key, but I've learned to live with
> that.
>
> The downside however is the reliability. In this time I've had the screen
> replaced, the keyboard replaced and the motherboard/cpu/ram/etc (it's all a
> single block) replaced. Each time it takes a week at the lab (I don't have
> the onsite warranty, and I am in Canada, so YMMV). So if you intend to use
> it somewhere where warranty isn't available, or if you intend to use it
> longer than the warranty period - stay away. It's expensive enough to be
> expected to last, but it's quite flimsy.
>
> On Mon, Dec 26, 2016 at 6:09 PM, Michael Shiloh <
> michaelshiloh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Thanks Eli,
>>
>> What kind of laptop do you use?
>>
>> Michael
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 26, 2016 at 2:30 PM, E.S. Rosenberg
>>  wrote:
>> > Ever since getting my current laptop that weighs ~1.5kg I said I will
>> > never get anything heavier again, it's something you can't return
>> > from.
>> >
>> > Thin and light devices (like the X1 and the T460S) tend to not be very
>> > upgradeable, it's a price you pay for thin & light... the SSD is most
>> > likely upgradeable on any model you choose because so far soldered on
>> > SSDs aren't all that common
>> >
>> > The videos on youtube clearly show that the T460S has at least one
>> > SODIMM slot, the X1 does not seem to have it.
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > Eliyahu - אליהו
>> >
>> > 2016-12-26 23:37 GMT+02:00 Michael Shiloh > >:
>> >> Hello everyone,
>> >>
>> >> I hope everyone is enjoying a very happy Chanukah.
>> >>
>> >> You might recall about a year ago I raised the question of a powerful
>> >> laptop for Linux. I settled on a Thinkpad W541 and I am thrilled with
>> >> it ... except for the weight.
>> >>
>> >> As I travel more and don't need the power of the W541 all the time,
>> >> I'm thinking of a lightweight laptop for daily use.
>> >>
>> >> It's hard for me to consider anything but Thinkpads: I love the
>> >> TrackPoint, the keyboard, the solid feel of the devices, etc. Given
>> >> that, the top two contenders are the X1 Carbon and the T460S.
>> >>
>> >> The X1 is about 2.6 pounds and more expensive than the T460S which
>> >> weighs about 3 pounds.
>> >>
>> >> Another big difference is whether the RAM and/or SSD can be upgraded
>> >> on the X1 (I've seen equally strong claims that they can and can not).
>> >> Some conversations insist they are soldered in, other say that perhaps
>> >> the RAM can be upgraded by the user but is a non-standard form factor
>> >> that can only be purchased from Lenovo.
>> >>
>> >> I think for the extra .4 pounds I'm willing to go with the better
>> >> price of the T460S, especially if upgrading RAM and SSD is not
>> >> possible on the X1 (I usually purchase from Lenovo with less storage
>> >> and upgrade on my own).
>> >>
>> >> Any thoughts or advice?
>> >>
>> >> ___
>> >> Linux-il mailing list
>> >> Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
>> >> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>
>> ___
>> Linux-il mailing list
>> Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>
>
>
> ___
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>
>
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