Re: Bezeq's Dropbox imitation

[shimi]

On Mon, Dec 27, 2010 at 4:39 AM, Amos Shapira wrote:

> On 24 December 2010 11:14, shimi  wrote:
> >
> >
> > 2010/12/24 Amos Shapira 
> >>
> >> On 19/12/2010 7:53 PM, "Daniel Feiglin"  wrote:
> >> > (officially) never heard of Linux. Apart from the cost, there is
> the
> >> > very important security attraction - the Bezeq servers for this are
> >> > located in Israel.
> >>
> >> Ha! Read Hetz' blog post about what's stopping anyone on the street from
> >> accessing servers hosted in their "server farm" (short summary: nothing)
> >>
> > Just that Hetz is talking about Bezeq International's farm (Petach Tikva)
> >
> > ... while Bezeq is a different company, which has a state of the art
> > facility, located in Jaffa [1].
> > [1]
> http://www.bezeq.co.il/Business/Data/datacenter/Pages/datacenter.aspx
>
> Thanks for the update.
>
> I still don't see what in that flashy web site (please excuse the pun)
> promises that nobody but authorised personnel will gain access to your
> servers. E.g. See SAS-70 requirements for data centre access control:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAS_70 or maybe better:
> http://sas70.com/sas70_overview.html
>
> The point that I took from Hetz' blog, and I'm saying too, is that the
> organisation can hand wave as much as it like about "secure
> facilities" but if there are no repercussions for its employees
> failing to follow security procedures (like it losing its SAS-70
> certification) then it's meaningless.
>
>
I agree that they're not too verbose on the website.

Personally I wasn't there, but I had a talk with a Bezeq sales rep who
mentioned it as one of their new services.

>From what he said (and this is from memory, so don't trust me on this) -
this is an underground self-sustained facility, with multiple access
controls on the way to the farm itself (biometric and guarded), and the
server themselves are in isolated areas (and anyways, you can get your own
cage that only you can access...). I think MED-1 also has something similar.

This (if true...) is by far better than what I've seen in Bezeqint and 012's
farms, which I was in. Bezeqint used to request an ID - now they don't - I
don't know why. 012 still asked me for ID last time I was there... never
checked Netvision/013.

Anyways, the Bezeq rep invited me to visit and see for myself if I want
(with a notice ahead, of course...). He did note that their prices are
considerably higher than the ones of the ISPs - but you attribute that not
only to the facility cost, but also to the fact, that, after all, this is
still Bezeq. I guess you can ask for a visit too, and get an impression
yourself.

-- Shimi
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Re: Bezeq's Dropbox imitation

[Amos Shapira]

On 24 December 2010 11:14, shimi  wrote:
>
>
> 2010/12/24 Amos Shapira 
>>
>> On 19/12/2010 7:53 PM, "Daniel Feiglin"  wrote:
>> > (officially) never heard of Linux.     Apart from the cost, there is the
>> > very important security attraction - the Bezeq servers for this are
>> > located in Israel.
>>
>> Ha! Read Hetz' blog post about what's stopping anyone on the street from
>> accessing servers hosted in their "server farm" (short summary: nothing)
>>
> Just that Hetz is talking about Bezeq International's farm (Petach Tikva)
>
> ... while Bezeq is a different company, which has a state of the art
> facility, located in Jaffa [1].
> [1] http://www.bezeq.co.il/Business/Data/datacenter/Pages/datacenter.aspx

Thanks for the update.

I still don't see what in that flashy web site (please excuse the pun)
promises that nobody but authorised personnel will gain access to your
servers. E.g. See SAS-70 requirements for data centre access control:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAS_70 or maybe better:
http://sas70.com/sas70_overview.html

The point that I took from Hetz' blog, and I'm saying too, is that the
organisation can hand wave as much as it like about "secure
facilities" but if there are no repercussions for its employees
failing to follow security procedures (like it losing its SAS-70
certification) then it's meaningless.

--Amos

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Re: Bezeq's Dropbox imitation

[shimi]

2010/12/24 Amos Shapira 

>
> On 19/12/2010 7:53 PM, "Daniel Feiglin"  wrote:
> > (officially) never heard of Linux. Apart from the cost, there is the
> > very important security attraction - the Bezeq servers for this are
> > located in Israel.
>
> Ha! Read Hetz' blog post about what's stopping anyone on the street from
> accessing servers hosted in their "server farm" (short summary: nothing)
>
>
>
> Just that Hetz is talking about Bezeq International's farm (Petach Tikva)

... while Bezeq is a different company, which has a state of the art
facility, located in Jaffa [1].

-- Shimi

[1] http://www.bezeq.co.il/Business/Data/datacenter/Pages/datacenter.aspx
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Re: Bezeq's Dropbox imitation

[Amos Shapira]

On 19/12/2010 7:53 PM, "Daniel Feiglin"  wrote:
> (officially) never heard of Linux. Apart from the cost, there is the
> very important security attraction - the Bezeq servers for this are
> located in Israel.

Ha! Read Hetz' blog post about what's stopping anyone on the street from
accessing servers hosted in their "server farm" (short summary: nothing)

--Amos
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Re: Bezeq's Dropbox imitation

[geoffrey mendelson]

On Dec 21, 2010, at 9:57 AM, Daniel Feiglin wrote:


 Does anyone
remember the Internet problems around 11/09/2001? (Incidentally I  
could

level the same objection to international web based mail accounts like
gmail, But that's another story.)



I'd worry more about the internet outages when Pakistan tried to block  
YouTube and took down a large portion of the Internet. Or the  
outage(s) when a ship in the Med dropped anchor in the wrong place and  
cut the fiber optic cables to everyone except Israel. We still had  
lots of bandwidth to the rest of the world, but no one was letting us  
use it.


Or the days when every time someone picked up the phone and received  
or made a call outside of the Israel, the internet lines lost 8k bits  
per second throughput. One ISP claimed to have the biggest bandwidth  
to the US, what they did not mention is that it was shared with their  
large telephone business which had priority. Even that was not enough,  
I remember in 2001 when you could not get an ISDN call to the UK at  
3pm on a weekday.


The problem is that while there are multiple points of entry into  
Israel from outside, they probably could be counted on the fingers of  
one hand.


My experience has been that having two separate  lines with 2 distinct  
ISPs does not significantly increase the reliability rate beyond local  
connections. If my connections to my ISPs are working I have the same  
successes or problems getting to a site (or a country) over both of  
them.


What it does REDUCE is the situation when one line into my home from  
the outside world is down. It's become almost impossible to tell with  
the aDSL line now that NGN has replaced it here. The aDSL line I have  
no longer goes from me to the local phone switch, it goes less than  
100 meters to a box which is connected via fiber optic to the phone  
switch. So it is always up, no matter what connectivity it has beyond  
my street.



Geoff.
--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson,  N3OWJ/4X1GM
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to misquote it.









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Re: Bezeq's Dropbox imitation

[Daniel Feiglin]

On 12/19/2010 10:47 AM, Daniel Feiglin wrote:
> Hello folks!
>
> Bezeq is offering a "Dropbox" imitation for very reasonable fees: NIS 1
> /Gb for oa 10 or 20 Gb package. The first two Gb are free (like
> Dropbox). Of course their technicians only support Windows and have
> (officially) never heard of Linux. Apart from the cost, there is the
> very important security attraction - the Bezeq servers for this are
> located in Israel.
>
> Has anyone on the list succeeded in using Linux opposite this service,
> perhaps by hacking kdropbox or something similar?
>
> What parameters should I request to "concoct" something myself (Oy vay!
> I haven't done socket programming since 2000)?
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Daniel
>
>
>   
Further to all this  from the point of view of a "user" (Read:
chimpanzee with two left thumbs) there does not appear to be a way to
use the Bezeq service with Linux.

In the meantime I've done a bit of other checking: On an annual basis,
the cost per Gb using Drobbox as against Bezeq is considerably lower.
Dropbox is about 60% of Bezeq ... but of course, your data is really "in
the cloud". If Obama or some other international twit decides he doesn't
like us, we could find ourselves with a messy outage. Does anyone
remember the Internet problems around 11/09/2001? (Incidentally I could
level the same objection to international web based mail accounts like
gmail, But that's another story.)

For the time being ... I dunno.

Daniel

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Re: Bezeq's Dropbox imitation

[Tzadik Vanderhoof]

LOL that is going straight on my status :)

2010/12/20 Elazar Leibovich 

> In the git sense, the porcelain is the nice GUI, and the plumbing are the
> processes which does the job underneath.
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 2:17 PM, Dotan Cohen  wrote:
>
>> 2010/12/19 Elazar Leibovich :
>> > The actual synchronization client is propriety, the only thing which is
>> open
>> > source is the nautilus porcelain.
>> >
>>
>> אתה בטוח שהתכוונת לחרסינה?‏
>>
>> --
>> Dotan Cohen
>>
>> http://gibberish.co.il
>> http://what-is-what.com
>>
>
>
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Re: Bezeq's Dropbox imitation

[Elazar Leibovich]

In the git sense, the porcelain is the nice GUI, and the plumbing are the
processes which does the job underneath.

On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 2:17 PM, Dotan Cohen  wrote:

> 2010/12/19 Elazar Leibovich :
> > The actual synchronization client is propriety, the only thing which is
> open
> > source is the nautilus porcelain.
> >
>
> אתה בטוח שהתכוונת לחרסינה?‏
>
> --
> Dotan Cohen
>
> http://gibberish.co.il
> http://what-is-what.com
>
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Re: Bezeq's Dropbox imitation

[Tzadik Vanderhoof]

I think you answered your own question :)

On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 8:57 AM, Tzafrir Cohen wrote:

> On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 07:39:21AM -0500, Tzadik Vanderhoof wrote:
> > Dropbox has versioning, including "undelete"
>
> Make it 'remote SSH account, GIT and Cron'.
>
> --
> Tzafrir Cohen | tzaf...@jabber.org | VIM is
> http://tzafrir.org.il || a Mutt's
> tzaf...@cohens.org.il ||  best
> tzaf...@debian.org|| friend
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Re: Bezeq's Dropbox imitation

[Tzafrir Cohen]

On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 07:39:21AM -0500, Tzadik Vanderhoof wrote:
> Dropbox has versioning, including "undelete"

Make it 'remote SSH account, GIT and Cron'.

-- 
Tzafrir Cohen | tzaf...@jabber.org | VIM is
http://tzafrir.org.il || a Mutt's
tzaf...@cohens.org.il ||  best
tzaf...@debian.org|| friend

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Re: Bezeq's Dropbox imitation

[Tzadik Vanderhoof]

Dropbox has versioning, including "undelete"

On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 5:36 AM, Dotan Cohen  wrote:

> 2010/12/19 Ori Idan >:
> > DropBox has client and a daemon. The client is open source but as much as
> I
> > know the daemon is not.
> >
>
> Maybe this should be a new thread, but what does DropBox offer that a
> remote SSH account, Rsync and Cron don't? No troll, I'd really like to
> know.
>
>
> --
> Dotan Cohen
>
> http://gibberish.co.il
> http://what-is-what.com
>
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Re: Bezeq's Dropbox imitation

[Dotan Cohen]

2010/12/19 Elazar Leibovich :
> The actual synchronization client is propriety, the only thing which is open
> source is the nautilus porcelain.
>

אתה בטוח שהתכוונת לחרסינה?‏

-- 
Dotan Cohen

http://gibberish.co.il
http://what-is-what.com

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Re: Bezeq's Dropbox imitation

[Elazar Leibovich]

Quoting from http://www.dropbox.com/downloading?os=lnx

How does it work?
>
> The installer will perform the following actions:
>
>- Install the open-source Dropbox plug-in for the Nautilus File 
> Manager
>- Adds Dropbox to your default repository for automatic upgrades.
>- Downloads and installs the Dropbox binary.
>
> The actual synchronization client is propriety, the only thing which is
open source is the nautilus porcelain.

On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 12:00 PM, Shachar Shemesh wrote:

> On 19/12/10 11:15, Justin wrote:
>
>> Ubuntu has their own dropbox clone.  If I'm going to support a company...
>> I'd rather it's Canonical than Bezeq.
>>
>>  ֹI'll just mention that the DropBox client for Linux is open source (as
> opposed to their client for Windows and Mac).
>
> Shachar
>
> --
> Shachar Shemesh
> Lingnu Open Source Consulting Ltd.
> http://www.lingnu.com
>
>
>
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Re: Bezeq's Dropbox imitation

[Ori Idan]

I think you can achieve the same functionality using rsync and cron, however
what they offer is a daemon that looks for changes in a specific directory
and synchronizes the directory to the remote server. I think they also offer
the possibility of sharing a subdirectory (under that dropbox directory)
with anyone else that has a dropbox account.

I have used dropbox in the past, I am now using a similar service from
Canonical named Ubuntu one that comes default with Ubuntu desktop.

-- 
Ori Idan


On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 12:36 PM, Dotan Cohen  wrote:

> 2010/12/19 Ori Idan :
> > DropBox has client and a daemon. The client is open source but as much as
> I
> > know the daemon is not.
> >
>
> Maybe this should be a new thread, but what does DropBox offer that a
> remote SSH account, Rsync and Cron don't? No troll, I'd really like to
> know.
>
>
> --
> Dotan Cohen
>
> http://gibberish.co.il
> http://what-is-what.com
>
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Re: Bezeq's Dropbox imitation

[Dotan Cohen]

2010/12/19 Ori Idan :
> DropBox has client and a daemon. The client is open source but as much as I
> know the daemon is not.
>

Maybe this should be a new thread, but what does DropBox offer that a
remote SSH account, Rsync and Cron don't? No troll, I'd really like to
know.


-- 
Dotan Cohen

http://gibberish.co.il
http://what-is-what.com

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Re: Bezeq's Dropbox imitation

[Ori Idan]

DropBox has client and a daemon. The client is open source but as much as I
know the daemon is not.

-- 
Ori Idan


On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 12:00 PM, Shachar Shemesh wrote:

> On 19/12/10 11:15, Justin wrote:
>
>> Ubuntu has their own dropbox clone.  If I'm going to support a company...
>> I'd rather it's Canonical than Bezeq.
>>
>>  ֹI'll just mention that the DropBox client for Linux is open source (as
> opposed to their client for Windows and Mac).
>
> Shachar
>
> --
> Shachar Shemesh
> Lingnu Open Source Consulting Ltd.
> http://www.lingnu.com
>
>
>
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Re: Bezeq's Dropbox imitation

[Shachar Shemesh]

On 19/12/10 11:15, Justin wrote:
Ubuntu has their own dropbox clone.  If I'm going to support a 
company... I'd rather it's Canonical than Bezeq.


ֹI'll just mention that the DropBox client for Linux is open source (as 
opposed to their client for Windows and Mac).


Shachar

--
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Lingnu Open Source Consulting Ltd.
http://www.lingnu.com


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Re: Bezeq's Dropbox imitation

[Dotan Cohen]

On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 11:15, Justin  wrote:
> Ubuntu has their own dropbox clone.  If I'm going to support a company...
> I'd rather it's Canonical than Bezeq.
>

Canonical already realizes that Linux support is important. Bezeq yet
doesn't, that is why we have to ask them to support desktop Linux. The
more we ask now, the less we will have to fight later (when their
shiney new XYZ-technology modems don't support Linux, for instance).


-- 
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http://gibberish.co.il
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Re: Bezeq's Dropbox imitation

[Justin]

Ubuntu has their own dropbox clone.  If I'm going to support a company...
I'd rather it's Canonical than Bezeq.



On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 11:09 AM, Dotan Cohen  wrote:

> 2010/12/19 Daniel Feiglin :
> > Hello folks!
> >
> > Bezeq is offering a "Dropbox" imitation for very reasonable fees: NIS 1
> > /Gb for oa 10 or 20 Gb package. The first two Gb are free (like
> > Dropbox). Of course their technicians only support Windows and have
> > (officially) never heard of Linux. Apart from the cost, there is the
> > very important security attraction - the Bezeq servers for this are
> > located in Israel.
> >
> > Has anyone on the list succeeded in using Linux opposite this service,
> > perhaps by hacking kdropbox or something similar?
> >
> > What parameters should I request to "concoct" something myself (Oy vay!
> > I haven't done socket programming since 2000)?
> >
>
> Just plainly request Linux support as if it were the most natural
> thing in the world. I'll do the same this evening.
>
>
>
> --
> Dotan Cohen
>
> http://gibberish.co.il
> http://what-is-what.com
>
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Re: Bezeq's Dropbox imitation

[Dotan Cohen]

2010/12/19 Daniel Feiglin :
> Hello folks!
>
> Bezeq is offering a "Dropbox" imitation for very reasonable fees: NIS 1
> /Gb for oa 10 or 20 Gb package. The first two Gb are free (like
> Dropbox). Of course their technicians only support Windows and have
> (officially) never heard of Linux.     Apart from the cost, there is the
> very important security attraction - the Bezeq servers for this are
> located in Israel.
>
> Has anyone on the list succeeded in using Linux opposite this service,
> perhaps by hacking kdropbox or something similar?
>
> What parameters should I request to "concoct" something myself (Oy vay!
> I haven't done socket programming since 2000)?
>

Just plainly request Linux support as if it were the most natural
thing in the world. I'll do the same this evening.



-- 
Dotan Cohen

http://gibberish.co.il
http://what-is-what.com

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Bezeq's Dropbox imitation

[Daniel Feiglin]

Hello folks!

Bezeq is offering a "Dropbox" imitation for very reasonable fees: NIS 1
/Gb for oa 10 or 20 Gb package. The first two Gb are free (like
Dropbox). Of course their technicians only support Windows and have
(officially) never heard of Linux. Apart from the cost, there is the
very important security attraction - the Bezeq servers for this are
located in Israel.

Has anyone on the list succeeded in using Linux opposite this service,
perhaps by hacking kdropbox or something similar?

What parameters should I request to "concoct" something myself (Oy vay!
I haven't done socket programming since 2000)?

Regards,


Daniel


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