Re: [W2l] Idea: "Welcome to Open Source" instead of "Welcome to Linux" this year
צודק. בכל אופן אני בעד לכלול את המילה "עולם" כי זה מעביר מסר חזק יותר. ~לאון On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 4:20 PM, Shlomi Fish wrote: > On Friday 11 September 2009 14:54:20 Leon Mintz wrote: > > IMHO, we should also pay a careful attention to how the title will sound > in > > Hebrew. > > I suggest: > > ברוכים הבאים לעולם של תוכנה חופשית > > > > Which means "Welcome to the World of Free Software". > > The problem with saying "תוכנה חופשית" is that some people may think it > means > "gratis/costless software" instead of "libre software", even in Hebrew. For > a > discussion see: > > http://shlomif.livejournal.com/52098.html > > I think "ברוכים הבאים לקוד הפתוח" or "ברוכים הבאים לעולם הקוד הפתוח" will > be > better because most people know that "open source" is more than just gratis > software. "open source" is problematic due to: > > http://www.shlomifish.org/philosophy/foss-other-beasts/revision-2/foss-and- > other-beasts/criteria.html#criteria_sourceware > > (short URL - http://shlom.in/sourceware ). > > Regards, > >Shlomi Fish > > > ~ Leon > > > > On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 3:46 AM, Shlomi Fish > wrote: > > > On Friday 11 September 2009 13:26:32 Ohad Lutzky wrote: > > > > I agree. "Welcome to Linux and FOSS" should be the name, and a short > > > > (no more than 20 words) explanation of the name should preclude the > > > > event. > > > > > > "Welcome to FOSS" may have been a name I used out of convenience. We > can > > > call > > > it "Welcome to Open Source" or "Welcome to Open Source Software", etc. > > > Many people have heard about "Open Source". > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > >Shlomi Fish > > > > > > -- > > > - > > > Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/ > > > Freecell Solver - http://fc-solve.berlios.de/ > > > > > > Chuck Norris read the entire English Wikipedia in 24 hours. Twice. > > > ___ > > > W2l mailing list > > > w...@projects.hamakor.org.il > > > http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/w2l > > > > -- > - > Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/ > What Makes Software Apps High Quality - http://shlom.in/sw-quality > > Chuck Norris read the entire English Wikipedia in 24 hours. Twice. > ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: [W2l] Idea: "Welcome to Open Source" instead of "Welcome to Linux" this year
ׁHi Dotan!
On Sunday 13 September 2009 09:43:00 Dotan Cohen wrote:
> > When talking with someone a few days ago, I had a moment of Serendipity
> > (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serendipity ). Why don't we do a
> > "Welcome-to- FOSS" (Free and Open Source Software) this year instead of
> > "Welcome-to-Linux"? We could show people some cool stuff about FOSS in
> > both Linux and Windows:
>
> I think that this is a great idea, in fact I often introduce new users
> to Firefox and occasionally to Open Office as well.
Yes.
>
> > 1. Cross-platform (or even Windows-only) User-oriented FOSS - Firefox,
> > OpenOffice.org, Inkscape, VirtualBox, GIMP, 7-zip, Notepad++, Audacity,
> > various FOSS games, other stuff here -
> > http://wiki.perl.org.il/index.php/FOSS_on_Windows and here -
> > http://www.opensourcewindows.org/
>
> This is a great idea. I must state, however, that in contrast to other
> FOSS applications (such as Firefox, Audacity, and Thunderbird),
> introductions to Open Office and Gimp should start with their
> drawbacks (OOo-MSO compatibility issues, Gimp UI different than
> Photojopa). Once users convince themselves that they can live with the
> drawbacks, they are then ready to accept the benefits. Firefox,
> Thunderbird, and Audacity do not suffer from serious drawbacks so this
> is not really an issue with them.
>
Yes, indeed. I also found Inkscape to be relatively complete and intuitive,
even for me who was used to Corel-Draw. Last time I checked, Corel-Draw didn't
support partial opacity (= "alpha") very well, which Inkscape does very well.
I haven't worked with Adobe Illustrator, or
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macromedia_FreeHand , so I can't compare it to
them.
Dia also has some drawbacks like missing features, or a relatively clunky UI.
> > 2. Open Source Development with a focus on rapid
> > scripts/GUI-programs/etc. development using
> > Perl/Python/Ruby/etc.[ScriptLang]
> >
> > 3. "Don't be afraid of the command line." - why the UNIX command line can
> > be useful.
>
> No! This should _never_ be in an introduction to anything! _You_ find
> it comfortable, others find it scary. Don't tread here.
Yes you're right. ("Bad Shlomi! No cookie!"). Anyway, we may delay such a
presentation presenting command line opossumness to shortly after the series.
(a la Haifux' "Staying in Linux").
>
> > 4. The Free and Open Source Software philosophy and ideology and its
> > positive implications on FOSS development and the computer and software
> > industry:
> >
> >- http://www.shlomifish.org/philosophy/foss-other-beasts/
> >
> >- http://www.shlomifish.org/philosophy/obj-oss/
> >
> >- Also see the links from there.
> >
> > (Ori would probably be happy to give it.)
>
> Just don't make it a religion and people will be interested.
>
It is a religion:
http://stallman.org/saint.html
Also:
http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/shlomif.html#sf-pm-perl-saints-
instead-of-heroes
(short URL: http://xrl.us/bfkgzn )
> > 5. And naturally and possibly - something about how to try out Linux,
> > possibly using a VirtualBox/etc. VM.
>
> I find that giving them a dual-boot system works better than giving them a
> VM.
Ah, well, it cannot hurt to tell them about the possibility of a VM.
OK, it seems there isn't a consensus about whether to have a Welcome-to-Linux
or Welcome-to-Open-Source . Looking at:
http://welcome.linux.org.il/2008/timetable.html
I think it is showing its age. Even if we do a Welcome-to-Linux, we should
rethink the format.
Regards,
Shlomi Fish
--
-
Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/
Interview with Ben Collins-Sussman - http://shlom.in/sussman
Chuck Norris read the entire English Wikipedia in 24 hours. Twice.
___
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Re: [W2l] Idea: "Welcome to Open Source" instead of "Welcome to Linux" this year
> IMHO, we should also pay a careful attention to how the title will sound in > Hebrew. > I suggest: > ברוכים הבאים לעולם של תוכנה חופשית > In Morphius' voice. -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: [W2l] Idea: "Welcome to Open Source" instead of "Welcome to Linux" this year
> When talking with someone a few days ago, I had a moment of Serendipity (see: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serendipity ). Why don't we do a "Welcome-to- > FOSS" (Free and Open Source Software) this year instead of "Welcome-to-Linux"? > We could show people some cool stuff about FOSS in both Linux and Windows: > I think that this is a great idea, in fact I often introduce new users to Firefox and occasionally to Open Office as well. > 1. Cross-platform (or even Windows-only) User-oriented FOSS - Firefox, > OpenOffice.org, Inkscape, VirtualBox, GIMP, 7-zip, Notepad++, Audacity, > various FOSS games, other stuff here - > http://wiki.perl.org.il/index.php/FOSS_on_Windows and here - > http://www.opensourcewindows.org/ > This is a great idea. I must state, however, that in contrast to other FOSS applications (such as Firefox, Audacity, and Thunderbird), introductions to Open Office and Gimp should start with their drawbacks (OOo-MSO compatibility issues, Gimp UI different than Photojopa). Once users convince themselves that they can live with the drawbacks, they are then ready to accept the benefits. Firefox, Thunderbird, and Audacity do not suffer from serious drawbacks so this is not really an issue with them. > 2. Open Source Development with a focus on rapid scripts/GUI-programs/etc. > development using Perl/Python/Ruby/etc.[ScriptLang] > > 3. "Don't be afraid of the command line." - why the UNIX command line can be > useful. > No! This should _never_ be in an introduction to anything! _You_ find it comfortable, others find it scary. Don't tread here. > 4. The Free and Open Source Software philosophy and ideology and its positive > implications on FOSS development and the computer and software industry: > > - http://www.shlomifish.org/philosophy/foss-other-beasts/ > > - http://www.shlomifish.org/philosophy/obj-oss/ > > - Also see the links from there. > > (Ori would probably be happy to give it.) > Just don't make it a religion and people will be interested. > 5. And naturally and possibly - something about how to try out Linux, possibly > using a VirtualBox/etc. VM. > I find that giving them a dual-boot system works better than giving them a VM. -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Idea: "Welcome to Open Source" instead of "Welcome to Linux" this year
On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 12:19 PM, Shlomi Fish wrote: > Hi all! > > When talking with someone a few days ago, I had a moment of Serendipity (see: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serendipity ). Why don't we do a "Welcome-to- > FOSS" (Free and Open Source Software) this year instead of "Welcome-to-Linux"? I don't think people will need our help to enter themselves to free software on Windows, while they do need our help to get around in Linux. Giving them recommendations on free software for windows is something we can do on our website, and don't need actual lectures. Kaplan ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: [W2l] Idea: "Welcome to Open Source" instead of "Welcome to Linux" this year
On Friday 11 September 2009 14:54:20 Leon Mintz wrote: > IMHO, we should also pay a careful attention to how the title will sound in > Hebrew. > I suggest: > ברוכים הבאים לעולם של תוכנה חופשית > Which means "Welcome to the World of Free Software". The problem with saying "תוכנה חופשית" is that some people may think it means "gratis/costless software" instead of "libre software", even in Hebrew. For a discussion see: http://shlomif.livejournal.com/52098.html I think "ברוכים הבאים לקוד הפתוח" or "ברוכים הבאים לעולם הקוד הפתוח" will be better because most people know that "open source" is more than just gratis software. "open source" is problematic due to: http://www.shlomifish.org/philosophy/foss-other-beasts/revision-2/foss-and- other-beasts/criteria.html#criteria_sourceware (short URL - http://shlom.in/sourceware ). Regards, Shlomi Fish > ~ Leon > > On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 3:46 AM, Shlomi Fish wrote: > > On Friday 11 September 2009 13:26:32 Ohad Lutzky wrote: > > > I agree. "Welcome to Linux and FOSS" should be the name, and a short > > > (no more than 20 words) explanation of the name should preclude the > > > event. > > > > "Welcome to FOSS" may have been a name I used out of convenience. We can > > call > > it "Welcome to Open Source" or "Welcome to Open Source Software", etc. > > Many people have heard about "Open Source". > > > > Regards, > > > >Shlomi Fish > > > > -- > > - > > Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/ > > Freecell Solver - http://fc-solve.berlios.de/ > > > > Chuck Norris read the entire English Wikipedia in 24 hours. Twice. > > ___ > > W2l mailing list > > w...@projects.hamakor.org.il > > http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/w2l > -- - Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/ What Makes Software Apps High Quality - http://shlom.in/sw-quality Chuck Norris read the entire English Wikipedia in 24 hours. Twice. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: [Haifux] Idea: "Welcome to Open Source" instead of "Welcome to Linux" this year
On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 01:26:32PM +0300, Ohad Lutzky wrote: > I agree. "Welcome to Linux and FOSS" should be the name, and a short (no > more than 20 words) explanation of the name should preclude the event. Now try pronouncing that :-) It's not that short. -- Tzafrir Cohen | tzaf...@jabber.org | VIM is http://tzafrir.org.il || a Mutt's tzaf...@cohens.org.il || best ICQ# 16849754 || friend ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Idea: "Welcome to Open Source" instead of "Welcome to Linux" this year
On Friday 11 September 2009 13:26:32 Ohad Lutzky wrote: > I agree. "Welcome to Linux and FOSS" should be the name, and a short (no > more than 20 words) explanation of the name should preclude the event. > "Welcome to FOSS" may have been a name I used out of convenience. We can call it "Welcome to Open Source" or "Welcome to Open Source Software", etc. Many people have heard about "Open Source". Regards, Shlomi Fish -- - Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/ Freecell Solver - http://fc-solve.berlios.de/ Chuck Norris read the entire English Wikipedia in 24 hours. Twice. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Idea: "Welcome to Open Source" instead of "Welcome to Linux" this year
I think we should keep it welcome to Linux as people already know firefox and some of them know Open Office. We should introduce Linux. If we make it welcome to FOSS we actually encourage people to keep on using proprietary software (windows). -- Ori Idan On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 12:47 PM, geoffrey mendelson < geoffreymendel...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> So what do you think? Am I crazy or am I on to something? Two people I >> talked >> with liked the idea, and a different one had some doubts. >> > > I think as long as you present it in a positive way, i.e. the benefits of > FOSS and the FOSS philosophy, without getting into a FOSS/non FOSS debate, > and the benefits of using FOSS without denigrating non FOSS software, etc. > > I think you will find that people are much more familar with FOSS than you > think. For example, it seems that all the public schools in Jerusalem use > FireFox and many use OO, without any fanfare, articles in Ynet, etc, it > "just happened". The State of Israel paid to localize the Windows version of > OO, and a lot of people use it without even knowing that it is FOSS, and so > on. > > I think that anything beyond that should be a talk on its own. There is no > reason to get the average person confused with CLI's, VMS, etc. > > Geoff. > -- > geoffrey mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM > Jerusalem Israel geoffreymendel...@gmail.com > > > > > > > ___ > Linux-il mailing list > Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il > http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il > ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Idea: "Welcome to Open Source" instead of "Welcome to Linux" this year
So what do you think? Am I crazy or am I on to something? Two people I talked with liked the idea, and a different one had some doubts. I think as long as you present it in a positive way, i.e. the benefits of FOSS and the FOSS philosophy, without getting into a FOSS/non FOSS debate, and the benefits of using FOSS without denigrating non FOSS software, etc. I think you will find that people are much more familar with FOSS than you think. For example, it seems that all the public schools in Jerusalem use FireFox and many use OO, without any fanfare, articles in Ynet, etc, it "just happened". The State of Israel paid to localize the Windows version of OO, and a lot of people use it without even knowing that it is FOSS, and so on. I think that anything beyond that should be a talk on its own. There is no reason to get the average person confused with CLI's, VMS, etc. Geoff. -- geoffrey mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM Jerusalem Israel geoffreymendel...@gmail.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Idea: "Welcome to Open Source" instead of "Welcome to Linux" this year
Hi all! When talking with someone a few days ago, I had a moment of Serendipity (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serendipity ). Why don't we do a "Welcome-to- FOSS" (Free and Open Source Software) this year instead of "Welcome-to-Linux"? We could show people some cool stuff about FOSS in both Linux and Windows: 1. Cross-platform (or even Windows-only) User-oriented FOSS - Firefox, OpenOffice.org, Inkscape, VirtualBox, GIMP, 7-zip, Notepad++, Audacity, various FOSS games, other stuff here - http://wiki.perl.org.il/index.php/FOSS_on_Windows and here - http://www.opensourcewindows.org/ 2. Open Source Development with a focus on rapid scripts/GUI-programs/etc. development using Perl/Python/Ruby/etc.[ScriptLang] 3. "Don't be afraid of the command line." - why the UNIX command line can be useful. 4. The Free and Open Source Software philosophy and ideology and its positive implications on FOSS development and the computer and software industry: - http://www.shlomifish.org/philosophy/foss-other-beasts/ - http://www.shlomifish.org/philosophy/obj-oss/ - Also see the links from there. (Ori would probably be happy to give it.) 5. And naturally and possibly - something about how to try out Linux, possibly using a VirtualBox/etc. VM. -- I think that now FOSS is more ubiquitous and mainstream than just on alternative, fully open-source, operating systems such as Linux. One should also remember that the main issue at hand is not Linux vs. Windows but rather the freedom of software and its open nature. Porting to Windows is no different from porting one's software to proprietary UNIXes such as Mac OS X, AIX, HP/UX or Solaris before it became OpenSolaris. [Windows] So what do you think? Am I crazy or am I on to something? Two people I talked with liked the idea, and a different one had some doubts. Regards, Shlomi Fish Footnotes: -- [ScriptLang] - we can have a colour of the bikeshed argument of which agile language to teach later on, but ultimately it's up to who volunteers to prepare the slides and present the presentation. [Windows] - Windows is indeed less compatible to Linux than other UNIXes, but: 1. There are many incompatibilities between the different UNIXes. 2. There are some operating systems that are still being used (such as HP's VMS) which are even harder to port to than Windows. 3. "Reality to be conquered must be obeyed." -- - Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/ First stop for Perl beginners - http://perl-begin.org/ Chuck Norris read the entire English Wikipedia in 24 hours. Twice. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
