Re: which distribution?
On Sun, 2003-09-21 at 12:28, Shlomo Yona wrote: On Sun, 21 Sep 2003, Uri Sharf wrote: AFAIK SuSE is defiantly the easiest and most mature of the desktop variants. It's only available for purchase, or a some what technical online install from SuSE's site. I would go for this option, if only because the very extensive supplementary documentation that comes with it (3 books in 8.0) and the all 7 discs or so also come on a single DVD. See here for and FTP Install Guide in Hebrew: http://whatsup.org.il/modules.php?name=Reviewsrop=showcontentid=75 What does this supplementary documentation include? What I have is a Reference which covers all the technical issues network, audio, printing etc. and also a separate Linux Basics (Desktops, Shell and YaST ) and Applications Guide (StarOffice, Gimp, Acrobat etc.) Debian is not too difficult to install if you don't mind the non-graphical approach. Bonzai is a good choice which requires some understanding of your system and a rather spartan approach to the whole process, but it does the job. Debian is very easy to maintain as far as getting updated software is concerned, but could be difficult if you are not technical. In certain areas I'm technically capable while in other areas (and setup and installation of Linux software is one of them) I am pretty technically impared. Thanks for the overview of possibilities. I am not sure where each stands regarding ease of installation on the side of the preloaded windows XP with its factory-settings hidden partition New versions of SuSE come with Disk Partitioning tools AFAIK, so that should help you get Windows out of the way cleanly. It might be a separate purchase, not sure. BTW Mandrake has a free solution for repartitioning so even if you don't want to install it it might be useful if you don't already have PartitionMagic and such. Does Suse use URPMI? It uses RPM packages which can be managed out-of-the-box with the all-encompassing YaST, or alternatively apt4rpm. URPMI is Mandrake specific and it falls short of the more advanced apt4rpm, though in Mandrake it is nicely integrated into the system. See more information on available package repositories for SuSE and others, here: http://whatsup.org.il/modules.php?name=Reviewsrop=showcontentid=80 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: which distribution?
On Sun, 2003-09-21 at 12:28, Shlomo Yona wrote: On Sun, 21 Sep 2003, Uri Sharf wrote: AFAIK SuSE is defiantly the easiest and most mature of the desktop variants. It's only available for purchase, or a some what technical online install from SuSE's site. I would go for this option, if only because the very extensive supplementary documentation that comes with it (3 books in 8.0) and the all 7 discs or so also come on a single DVD. See here for and FTP Install Guide in Hebrew: http://whatsup.org.il/modules.php?name=Reviewsrop=showcontentid=75 What does this supplementary documentation include? What I have is a Reference which covers all the technical issues network, audio, printing etc. and also a separate Linux Basics (Desktops, Shell and YaST ) and Applications Guide (StarOffice, Gimp, Acrobat etc.) Debian is not too difficult to install if you don't mind the non-graphical approach. Bonzai is a good choice which requires some understanding of your system and a rather spartan approach to the whole process, but it does the job. Debian is very easy to maintain as far as getting updated software is concerned, but could be difficult if you are not technical. In certain areas I'm technically capable while in other areas (and setup and installation of Linux software is one of them) I am pretty technically impared. Thanks for the overview of possibilities. I am not sure where each stands regarding ease of installation on the side of the preloaded windows XP with its factory-settings hidden partition New versions of SuSE come with Disk Partitioning tools AFAIK, so that should help you get Windows out of the way cleanly. It might be a separate purchase, not sure. BTW Mandrake has a free solution for repartitioning so even if you don't want to install it it might be useful if you don't already have PartitionMagic and such. Does Suse use URPMI? It uses RPM packages which can be managed out-of-the-box with the all-encompassing YaST, or alternatively apt4rpm. URPMI is Mandrake specific and it falls short of the more advanced apt4rpm, though in Mandrake it is nicely integrated into the system. See more information on available package repositories for SuSE and others, here: http://whatsup.org.il/modules.php?name=Reviewsrop=showcontentid=80 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: which distribution?
On Sun, Sep 21, 2003 at 01:28:21PM +0300, Shlomo Yona wrote: On Sun, 21 Sep 2003, Uri Sharf wrote: AFAIK SuSE is defiantly the easiest and most mature of the desktop variants. It's only available for purchase, or a some what technical online install from SuSE's site. After having played with SuSE's server version at work a bit I'll just remark that SuSE has its own quirks and insanities. Does Suse use URPMI? No. Nither SuSE nor RedHat come with urpmi or apt4rpm built-in. You can install apt4rpm for both but if you have some not freely-distributable packages, they won't be in any repository. Unlike up2date and red-carpet (which some versions of SuSE may include) urpmi and apt allow you to easily add your own sources. Be that some remote software locations or packages locations, or even your own custom packages. -- Tzafrir Cohen +---+ http://www.technion.ac.il/~tzafrir/ |vim is a mutt's best friend| mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] +---+ = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
which distribution?
Hello, I want to install some GNU/Linux distribution on a new IBM Thinkpad T40. So far I've heard (runors) that one of the following distributions should be best for me: Debian Mandrake RedHat Suse Debian will probably not be an option unless I find someone to hold my hand during installation and configuration. For some reason it seems intimidating to me. I am a very capable users but I'm not up to date with new updates, security and other patches and software-hardware compatibility issues so I fear that the extra freedom in debian might be an obstacle for me. I would like to ba proven wrong, though... Mandrake and redhat seem appealing, but I have no idea which one of them has the more rich stable package now (in terms of kernel, GUI and hardware related updates). I checked their sites and could not understand which one has the best blend of software which will enable operation of the laptop with Linux on the first try. I also heard that Suse linux installes perfectly with my kind of a laptop, but as rumors are -- this is just a rumor. I did not actually see anyone who have done that and was able to use the laptop's features from the beginning. I am also considerin buying a distribution (with CDs and all) just to be sure I have CDs with everything needed (I am not expected to have easy access to internet soon, so it seems like a safe thing to do in order not to get stuck). Still -- I am not sure I understand what I benefit from this besides having the CDs and a month or two or email/phone support (which I am not sure will be helpful). Any input will be useful. Thanks. -- Shlomo Yona [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://cs.haifa.ac.il/~shlomo/ = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: which distribution?
Shlomo Yona wrote: Hello, I want to install some GNU/Linux distribution on a new IBM Thinkpad T40. So far I've heard (runors) that one of the following distributions should be best for me: Debian Mandrake RedHat Suse Debian will probably not be an option unless I find someone to hold my hand during installation and configuration. For some reason it seems intimidating to me. I am a very capable users but I'm not up to date with new updates, security and other patches and software-hardware compatibility issues so I fear that the extra freedom in debian might be an obstacle for me. I would like to ba proven wrong, though... If you want Debian with a nice installer, check Libranet (www.libranet.com). Mandrake and redhat seem appealing, but I have no idea which one of them has the more rich stable package now (in terms of kernel, GUI and hardware related updates). I checked their sites and could not understand which one has the best blend of software which will enable operation of the laptop with Linux on the first try. I find Mandrake more appealing for the less technical user, maily due to the Drakconf utility. It makes post installation life much easier. urpmi also makes installation and dependency checking much easier, both from the internet and localy. I also heard that Suse linux installes perfectly with my kind of a laptop, but as rumors are -- this is just a rumor. I did not actually see anyone who have done that and was able to use the laptop's features from the beginning. Check http://www.linux.org/hardware/laptop.html and http://www.linux-laptop.net. See what other people installed on the same model you have. I am also considerin buying a distribution (with CDs and all) just to be sure I have CDs with everything needed (I am not expected to have easy access to internet soon, so it seems like a safe thing to do in order not to get stuck). With SuSE, you really have no other option. They do not provide ISO images of their system. Still -- I am not sure I understand what I benefit from this besides having the CDs and a month or two or email/phone support (which I am not sure will be helpful). Check the sites. Most commercial distibutions will offer: 1. e-mail support 2. Software updates (Redhat and SuSE) 3. Access to on-line suppport (Mandrake) 4. Some commercial software (such as crossover office, BRU, etc). Any input will be useful. Thanks. -- = Gil Freund Sysnet consulting - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.sysnet.co.il voice: +972-52-676906 Fax: +972-8-9356026 = = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: which distribution?
AFAIK SuSE is defiantly the easiest and most mature of the desktop variants. It's only available for purchase, or a some what technical online install from SuSE's site. I would go for this option, if only because the very extensive supplementary documentation that comes with it (3 books in 8.0) and the all 7 discs or so also come on a single DVD. See here for and FTP Install Guide in Hebrew: http://whatsup.org.il/modules.php?name=Reviewsrop=showcontentid=75 Debian is not too difficult to install if you don't mind the non-graphical approach. Bonzai is a good choice which requires some understanding of your system and a rather spartan approach to the whole process, but it does the job. Debian is very easy to maintain as far as getting updated software is concerned, but could be difficult if you are not technical. See: http://whatsup.org.il/article.php?sid=1377 So if not pure Debian you can still enjoy it using Knoppix (KDE), Morphix (any Desktop) or Gnoppix (GNOME) instaed. All 3 are bootable Live Linux CD's which let you easily install to your hard disk if you want to. See: http://whatsup.org.il/article.php?sid=1558 Debian's users forums are available at: http://debian.org.il On Sun, 2003-09-21 at 09:40, Shlomo Yona wrote: Hello, I want to install some GNU/Linux distribution on a new IBM Thinkpad T40. So far I've heard (runors) that one of the following distributions should be best for me: Debian Mandrake RedHat Suse Debian will probably not be an option unless I find someone to hold my hand during installation and configuration. For some reason it seems intimidating to me. I am a very capable users but I'm not up to date with new updates, security and other patches and software-hardware compatibility issues so I fear that the extra freedom in debian might be an obstacle for me. I would like to ba proven wrong, though... Mandrake and redhat seem appealing, but I have no idea which one of them has the more rich stable package now (in terms of kernel, GUI and hardware related updates). I checked their sites and could not understand which one has the best blend of software which will enable operation of the laptop with Linux on the first try. I also heard that Suse linux installes perfectly with my kind of a laptop, but as rumors are -- this is just a rumor. I did not actually see anyone who have done that and was able to use the laptop's features from the beginning. I am also considerin buying a distribution (with CDs and all) just to be sure I have CDs with everything needed (I am not expected to have easy access to internet soon, so it seems like a safe thing to do in order not to get stuck). Still -- I am not sure I understand what I benefit from this besides having the CDs and a month or two or email/phone support (which I am not sure will be helpful). Any input will be useful. Thanks. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: which distribution?
On Sun, 21 Sep 2003, Uri Sharf wrote: AFAIK SuSE is defiantly the easiest and most mature of the desktop variants. It's only available for purchase, or a some what technical online install from SuSE's site. I would go for this option, if only because the very extensive supplementary documentation that comes with it (3 books in 8.0) and the all 7 discs or so also come on a single DVD. See here for and FTP Install Guide in Hebrew: http://whatsup.org.il/modules.php?name=Reviewsrop=showcontentid=75 What does this supplementary documentation include? Debian is not too difficult to install if you don't mind the non-graphical approach. Bonzai is a good choice which requires some understanding of your system and a rather spartan approach to the whole process, but it does the job. Debian is very easy to maintain as far as getting updated software is concerned, but could be difficult if you are not technical. In certain areas I'm technically capable while in other areas (and setup and installation of Linux software is one of them) I am pretty technically impared. Thanks for the overview of possibilities. I am not sure where each stands regarding ease of installation on the side of the preloaded windows XP with its factory-settings hidden partition Does Suse use URPMI? -- Shlomo Yona [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://cs.haifa.ac.il/~shlomo/ = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: which distribution?
On Sun, 2003-09-21 at 12:28, Shlomo Yona wrote: On Sun, 21 Sep 2003, Uri Sharf wrote: AFAIK SuSE is defiantly the easiest and most mature of the desktop variants. It's only available for purchase, or a some what technical online install from SuSE's site. I would go for this option, if only because the very extensive supplementary documentation that comes with it (3 books in 8.0) and the all 7 discs or so also come on a single DVD. See here for and FTP Install Guide in Hebrew: http://whatsup.org.il/modules.php?name=Reviewsrop=showcontentid=75 What does this supplementary documentation include? What I have is a Reference which covers all the technical issues network, audio, printing etc. and also a separate Linux Basics (Desktops, Shell and YaST ) and Applications Guide (StarOffice, Gimp, Acrobat etc.) Debian is not too difficult to install if you don't mind the non-graphical approach. Bonzai is a good choice which requires some understanding of your system and a rather spartan approach to the whole process, but it does the job. Debian is very easy to maintain as far as getting updated software is concerned, but could be difficult if you are not technical. In certain areas I'm technically capable while in other areas (and setup and installation of Linux software is one of them) I am pretty technically impared. Thanks for the overview of possibilities. I am not sure where each stands regarding ease of installation on the side of the preloaded windows XP with its factory-settings hidden partition New versions of SuSE come with Disk Partitioning tools AFAIK, so that should help you get Windows out of the way cleanly. It might be a separate purchase, not sure. BTW Mandrake has a free solution for repartitioning so even if you don't want to install it it might be useful if you don't already have PartitionMagic and such. Does Suse use URPMI? It uses RPM packages which can be managed out-of-the-box with the all-encompassing YaST, or alternatively apt4rpm. URPMI is Mandrake specific and it falls short of the more advanced apt4rpm, though in Mandrake it is nicely integrated into the system. See more information on available package repositories for SuSE and others, here: http://whatsup.org.il/modules.php?name=Reviewsrop=showcontentid=80 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Which distribution
Hello, Let me start by stating that I do not want to start a flame war here, arguing which distribution is better. Instead, I am looking for opinions and backed up answers. I have bought a new Athlon computer and I am not sure which distribution should I install - RedHat 6.1 (or 6.2 for that matter) or Mandrake 7.0 (I have outrulled the rest of the existing distributions out of various reasons). These are the factors that I find most important in the distribution I am looking for: 1. basic security of the distribution, default security settings and so forth. For example, I know that Mandrake let's you choose the security level of the of the OS during installation. 2. How fast does the manufacturer issues patches to security expolits from the moment they have become publicly known. 3. This is specific to Mandrake - I know that Mandrake optimize their packages for Pentium (they claim up to 30% speed ups). Will these optimized packages cause any problems when executed on an AMD Athlon cpu? Thanks in advance, Yosi __ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Which distribution
Hi Yosi, Yosi wrote: Hello, Let me start by stating that I do not want to start a flame war here, arguing which distribution is better. Instead, I am looking for opinions and backed up answers. I have bought a new Athlon computer and I am not sure which distribution should I install - RedHat 6.1 (or 6.2 for that matter) or Mandrake 7.0 (I have outrulled the rest of the existing distributions out of various reasons). These are the factors that I find most important in the distribution I am looking for: 1. basic security of the distribution, default security settings and so forth. For example, I know that Mandrake let's you choose the security level of the of the OS during installation. Mandrake in this issue is "better" then Redhat. Why "better"? cause what you do automatically with Mandrake, you can do manually with Redhat. 2. How fast does the manufacturer issues patches to security expolits from the moment they have become publicly known. This one shouldn't be matter to you. If you install Mandrake and Redhat issues a security fix - You can safely install the RPM from Redhat on your mandrake. I tried that and it worked. 3. This is specific to Mandrake - I know that Mandrake optimize their packages for Pentium (they claim up to 30% speed ups). Will these optimized packages cause any problems when executed on an AMD Athlon cpu? Don't think you will enjoy the speed enhancment - unless you want to compile manually every package with the latest GCC (which I'm not sure it got any optimizations for K7) Thanks Hetz Thanks in advance, Yosi __ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Which distribution
On Sun, 05 Mar 2000, "Yosi" wrote: Hello, Let me start by stating that I do not want to start a flame war here, arguing which distribution is better. Instead, I am looking for opinions and backed up answers. I have bought a new Athlon computer and I am not sure which distribution should I install - RedHat 6.1 (or 6.2 for that matter) or Mandrake 7.0 (I have outrulled the rest of the existing distributions out of various reasons). What do you wnat to do with the machine? It may affect distribution selection as well. These are the factors that I find most important in the distribution I am looking for: 1. basic security of the distribution, default security settings and so forth. For example, I know that Mandrake let's you choose the security level of the of the OS during installation. Mandrake claims they can audit security level of distribution up to "very secure" (does not approach to ABC scheme, but their 7-th level of security _sounds_ reasonable. _sounds_. I did not used this myself, the reason to this can lead to flame war, so I am omitting it) It can be nice to have such an audition. However, think about two important factors: Holes which are not covered by their security auditor are dangerous, and If the security auditor is compromised It is important to remember, that security can not be achieved by choosing a right distribution, but rather by comitting yourself to the routine work of wtching out the holes yourself. Or using the answer I omitted due to high risk of flames. It seems that Mandrake can be more crackable than RedHat, just because from the cracker's point of view Mandrake is the known foe. On the other way, RedHat security is very strange, somewhere zero, somewhere high. May be the right answer would be choosing Mandrake, and mending it up to desired level of security by hand. 2. How fast does the manufacturer issues patches to security exploits from the moment they have become publicly known. I have no information about RedHat or Mandrake. Baicly you do not wait for manufacturer to issue a patch, but you look for it somewhere else. 3. This is specific to Mandrake - I know that Mandrake optimize their packages for Pentium (they claim up to 30% speed ups). Will these optimized packages cause any problems when executed on an AMD Athlon cpu? A strange question. It will run more slowly than on processor which was the target during compilation. Basicly, you can recompile entire distro with your specific optimisations (I did it on my choise of Linux distro, where it is trivial.) K7 binary compatible with P5MMX. Pipelining is different, so the heuristics which are good for P5MMX instruction set probably will flush the i/d-cache on K7. So it will run slowly. But problems? Sure you will have, no-one had cancelled the Murphy law. But there are not any problems you can face just because MMX instructions were issued here and there. -- Cheers, Omer Mussaev / tel 051308214 / http://www.linuxlizard.de/omer finger for [ address | phones | public key ] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Which distribution
O and I am not sure which distribution should I install - RedHat 6.1 O (or 6.2 for that matter) or Mandrake 7.0 (I have outrulled the rest O of the existing distributions out of various reasons). I've just installed Mandrake 7 and I have to report it's rather nice. Installation procedure is very nice and intuitive (it allows you to return to some points back and generally behaved almost like I thought it should), and install is cleaner than RH's. Only strange thing I observed that it somehow messed up X install (it was a laptop), and I spent some 20 minutes trying to get working config, then returned to defaults - and X worked with them. Strange thing is that installer test didn't work, while real X did, but I don't feel too bad about it - it would be worse other way :) Yet another strange thing - it managed to strip Windows installation without asking me how much I want for Linux. And it chose reasonable values (I've checked afterwards), though I wouldn't partition disk exactly this way. But for the beginner it's nice feature - it doesn't ask "hard" questions. O It seems that Mandrake can be more crackable than RedHat, just because from O the cracker's point of view Mandrake is the known foe. On the other way, O RedHat security is very strange, somewhere zero, somewhere high. May be the O right answer would be choosing Mandrake, and mending it up to desired level O of security by hand. I observed that Mandrake installs less trash than RH and default configuration is more clean (no various rlogin's enabled by default). I don't know was it because of level of security (I chose "medium"), good defaults or some button that I've checked and forgot about it :) -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-3-9316425/\ JRRT LotR. http://sharat.co.il/frodo/ whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Which distribution
On Mon, 6 Mar 2000, Omer wrote: On Sun, 05 Mar 2000, "Yosi" wrote: 2. How fast does the manufacturer issues patches to security exploits from the moment they have become publicly known. I have no information about RedHat or Mandrake. Baicly you do not wait for manufacturer to issue a patch, but you look for it somewhere else. Is it just me or has the mandrake-security list been inactive for the last couple of monthes? At least in the case of userhelper, which was an easy-to-exploit local root compormise, it was not fixed immeditely. In fact - it was never fixed in 6.1 (AFAIK), although IIRC I checked mandrake 7.0 and the old exploit did not work. I did not bother checking much further. On my system I enbded up installing the fix that redhat issued. And anyway - I failed to find archives of that list. 3. This is specific to Mandrake - I know that Mandrake optimize their packages for Pentium (they claim up to 30% speed ups). Will these optimized packages cause any problems when executed on an AMD Athlon cpu? On my computer (PII 350) I haven't noticed any big difference when I switched from red-hat 5.2 to mandrake 6.0, but I didn't do any serious benchmarking to check this. A strange question. It will run more slowly than on processor which was the target during compilation. Basicly, you can recompile entire distro with your specific optimisations (I did it on my choise of Linux distro, where it is trivial.) On red-hat, mandrake, and the rest of the rpm gang you can (at least theoretically) fetch the source rpms for all of your stuff and rppm --rebuild them. Practically I have not yet heard of anyone who did this for an entire system. -- Tzafrir Cohen mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.technion.ac.il/~tzafrir = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
