subject:"\[RFD\] Documentation\/HOWTO translated into Japanese"

Re: [RFD] Documentation/HOWTO translated into Japanese

2007-07-03 Thread Rob Landley

Following up on this thread (and various OLS hall conversations).  I'm 
interested in linking to documentation translations from 
http://kernel.org/doc, and it seems to me that the best thing I can do for 
Japanese is just link to http://www.linux.or.jp/JF/index.html and let them 
handle the Japanese translations.

For one thing, the documents discussed in this thread are already up there, 
and unlike me they can _read_ them and see if they're out of date or not.

Just FYI.

Rob
-- 
"One of my most productive days was throwing away 1000 lines of code."
  - Ken Thompson.
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Re: [RFD] Documentation/HOWTO translated into Japanese

2007-07-03 Thread Rob Landley

Following up on this thread (and various OLS hall conversations).  I'm 
interested in linking to documentation translations from 
http://kernel.org/doc, and it seems to me that the best thing I can do for 
Japanese is just link to http://www.linux.or.jp/JF/index.html and let them 
handle the Japanese translations.

For one thing, the documents discussed in this thread are already up there, 
and unlike me they can _read_ them and see if they're out of date or not.

Just FYI.

Rob
-- 
One of my most productive days was throwing away 1000 lines of code.
  - Ken Thompson.
-
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Re: [RFD] Documentation/HOWTO translated into Japanese

2007-06-14 Thread Kyle Moffett


On Jun 11, 2007, at 13:38:10, Tony Luck wrote:
I'd rather have a single file, marked "Japanese" (in Japanese),  
that had pointers to current translations. These will always be at  
least as current as whatever we have in the tree, if not more so.  
Especially when someone is trying to figure out how to work based  
on the year-old kernel their embedded vendor gave them.


Knowing whether a translation is current or not would be useful ...  
perhaps the translated files could include the GIT blob SHA1 of the  
version they were translated from (and some human readable version  
string too :-) This would allow someone reading the documentation  
to know whether is really was current.  If it isn't, it provides an  
easy path to see what changed in the source document since the  
translation was made. This same diff should lighten the load for  
people maintaining the translation.


Well, actually, if you're going that route then extend GIT to have  
support for "related" files.  Essentially you should be able to add  
metadata to a git tree which says: "files $SHA1-$PATH1, $SHA2-$PATH2,  
[...], are related".  Then there would be a "git list-related"  
command with a "--mismatch" option which would list paths for which  
$SHA1 doesn't correspond to $PATH1 or $SHA2 doesn't correspond to  
$PATH2, etc.  Some clever updating of related-status during commit/ 
clone/pull/etc could store information in the index about whether or  
not any given file is up-to-date with respect to its co-related files.


For translations, when the English version of a document is updated  
it will automatically result in a "mismatch", allowing translators to  
do a simple git-diff and see what happened.  Likewise, if the  
Japanese document is updated without changing the relationship then  
it might mean that somebody should see what changed and update the  
English version as well.  If you determine that the change was  
irrelevant for the other language (spelling/grammar fixes, etc), then  
you just update the relationship and commit that change.


It would probably be pretty trivial to implement a prototype using a  
'.gitrelated' file in the root of the git tree, although better  
integration with the index would really speed handling with lots of  
related files; instead of linear searching just iterate over the  
prepared-during-checkout "out-of-date" list.


Cheers,
Kyle Moffett

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Re: [RFD] Documentation/HOWTO translated into Japanese

2007-06-14 Thread Kyle Moffett


On Jun 11, 2007, at 13:38:10, Tony Luck wrote:
I'd rather have a single file, marked Japanese (in Japanese),  
that had pointers to current translations. These will always be at  
least as current as whatever we have in the tree, if not more so.  
Especially when someone is trying to figure out how to work based  
on the year-old kernel their embedded vendor gave them.


Knowing whether a translation is current or not would be useful ...  
perhaps the translated files could include the GIT blob SHA1 of the  
version they were translated from (and some human readable version  
string too :-) This would allow someone reading the documentation  
to know whether is really was current.  If it isn't, it provides an  
easy path to see what changed in the source document since the  
translation was made. This same diff should lighten the load for  
people maintaining the translation.


Well, actually, if you're going that route then extend GIT to have  
support for related files.  Essentially you should be able to add  
metadata to a git tree which says: files $SHA1-$PATH1, $SHA2-$PATH2,  
[...], are related.  Then there would be a git list-related  
command with a --mismatch option which would list paths for which  
$SHA1 doesn't correspond to $PATH1 or $SHA2 doesn't correspond to  
$PATH2, etc.  Some clever updating of related-status during commit/ 
clone/pull/etc could store information in the index about whether or  
not any given file is up-to-date with respect to its co-related files.


For translations, when the English version of a document is updated  
it will automatically result in a mismatch, allowing translators to  
do a simple git-diff and see what happened.  Likewise, if the  
Japanese document is updated without changing the relationship then  
it might mean that somebody should see what changed and update the  
English version as well.  If you determine that the change was  
irrelevant for the other language (spelling/grammar fixes, etc), then  
you just update the relationship and commit that change.


It would probably be pretty trivial to implement a prototype using a  
'.gitrelated' file in the root of the git tree, although better  
integration with the index would really speed handling with lots of  
related files; instead of linear searching just iterate over the  
prepared-during-checkout out-of-date list.


Cheers,
Kyle Moffett

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Re: [RFD] Documentation/HOWTO translated into Japanese

2007-06-13 Thread Pavel Machek

Hi!

> > Plus, I'm not even sure if we have enough space. There are lots of
> > languages.
> 
> "space"?  Since when are we running out of space?  The kernel is "only"
> growing at 10% a year and is a mere 8.1 million lines or so.  We have
> plenty of space on the mirrors to take up :)

On mirrors, maybe. But I have 9+ copies on local notebook, and that
beast is out of space all the time :-).
Pavel
-- 
(english) http://www.livejournal.com/~pavelmachek
(cesky, pictures) 
http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pavel/picture/horses/blog.html
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Re: [RFD] Documentation/HOWTO translated into Japanese

2007-06-13 Thread Greg KH

On Wed, Jun 13, 2007 at 02:18:18PM +, Pavel Machek wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> > Yes, but this file, and the stable-api-nonsense.txt files are there to
> > help people understand both the kernel's philosophy, as well as
> > encourage them to help contribute.
> > 
> > That is totally different from internationalizing the internal kernel
> > messages (which, btw, some people are working on...)  That I would not
> > agree to as it's just too hard to keep up with and would be pointless in
> > a way.
> > 
> > So I really do want to see a translated copy of the HOWTO,
> > stable-api-nonsense.txt, and possibly a few other files in the main
> > kernel tree (SubmittingPatches, CodingStyle, and SubmittingDrivers might
> > all be good canidates for this.)  These files change relativly
> > infrequently (the HOWTO file has had only 7 changes in 1 and 1/2 years,
> > and they were very minor ones) and should be easy for the translators to
> > keep up with.
> 
> But what is the point of having them in tree?

Wider exposure.  It will greatly increase the "google-juice" of it and
helps out when pointing people at the needed information.

> Plus, I'm not even sure if we have enough space. There are lots of
> languages.

"space"?  Since when are we running out of space?  The kernel is "only"
growing at 10% a year and is a mere 8.1 million lines or so.  We have
plenty of space on the mirrors to take up :)

thanks,

greg k-h
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Re: [RFD] Documentation/HOWTO translated into Japanese

2007-06-13 Thread Pavel Machek

Hi!

> Yes, but this file, and the stable-api-nonsense.txt files are there to
> help people understand both the kernel's philosophy, as well as
> encourage them to help contribute.
> 
> That is totally different from internationalizing the internal kernel
> messages (which, btw, some people are working on...)  That I would not
> agree to as it's just too hard to keep up with and would be pointless in
> a way.
> 
> So I really do want to see a translated copy of the HOWTO,
> stable-api-nonsense.txt, and possibly a few other files in the main
> kernel tree (SubmittingPatches, CodingStyle, and SubmittingDrivers might
> all be good canidates for this.)  These files change relativly
> infrequently (the HOWTO file has had only 7 changes in 1 and 1/2 years,
> and they were very minor ones) and should be easy for the translators to
> keep up with.

But what is the point of having them in tree?

- regular review process does not work for them.

- regular release process does not work for them; translations want
release few days after -stable is released.

- kernel contributors will _not_ be able to fix them when they change
the original.

Plus, I'm not even sure if we have enough space. There are lots of
languages.
Pavel
-- 
(english) http://www.livejournal.com/~pavelmachek
(cesky, pictures) 
http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pavel/picture/horses/blog.html
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Re: [RFD] Documentation/HOWTO translated into Japanese

2007-06-13 Thread Pavel Machek

Hi!

 Yes, but this file, and the stable-api-nonsense.txt files are there to
 help people understand both the kernel's philosophy, as well as
 encourage them to help contribute.
 
 That is totally different from internationalizing the internal kernel
 messages (which, btw, some people are working on...)  That I would not
 agree to as it's just too hard to keep up with and would be pointless in
 a way.
 
 So I really do want to see a translated copy of the HOWTO,
 stable-api-nonsense.txt, and possibly a few other files in the main
 kernel tree (SubmittingPatches, CodingStyle, and SubmittingDrivers might
 all be good canidates for this.)  These files change relativly
 infrequently (the HOWTO file has had only 7 changes in 1 and 1/2 years,
 and they were very minor ones) and should be easy for the translators to
 keep up with.

But what is the point of having them in tree?

- regular review process does not work for them.

- regular release process does not work for them; translations want
release few days after -stable is released.

- kernel contributors will _not_ be able to fix them when they change
the original.

Plus, I'm not even sure if we have enough space. There are lots of
languages.
Pavel
-- 
(english) http://www.livejournal.com/~pavelmachek
(cesky, pictures) 
http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pavel/picture/horses/blog.html
-
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in
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Re: [RFD] Documentation/HOWTO translated into Japanese

2007-06-13 Thread Greg KH

On Wed, Jun 13, 2007 at 02:18:18PM +, Pavel Machek wrote:
 Hi!
 
  Yes, but this file, and the stable-api-nonsense.txt files are there to
  help people understand both the kernel's philosophy, as well as
  encourage them to help contribute.
  
  That is totally different from internationalizing the internal kernel
  messages (which, btw, some people are working on...)  That I would not
  agree to as it's just too hard to keep up with and would be pointless in
  a way.
  
  So I really do want to see a translated copy of the HOWTO,
  stable-api-nonsense.txt, and possibly a few other files in the main
  kernel tree (SubmittingPatches, CodingStyle, and SubmittingDrivers might
  all be good canidates for this.)  These files change relativly
  infrequently (the HOWTO file has had only 7 changes in 1 and 1/2 years,
  and they were very minor ones) and should be easy for the translators to
  keep up with.
 
 But what is the point of having them in tree?

Wider exposure.  It will greatly increase the google-juice of it and
helps out when pointing people at the needed information.

 Plus, I'm not even sure if we have enough space. There are lots of
 languages.

space?  Since when are we running out of space?  The kernel is only
growing at 10% a year and is a mere 8.1 million lines or so.  We have
plenty of space on the mirrors to take up :)

thanks,

greg k-h
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Re: [RFD] Documentation/HOWTO translated into Japanese

2007-06-13 Thread Pavel Machek

Hi!

  Plus, I'm not even sure if we have enough space. There are lots of
  languages.
 
 space?  Since when are we running out of space?  The kernel is only
 growing at 10% a year and is a mere 8.1 million lines or so.  We have
 plenty of space on the mirrors to take up :)

On mirrors, maybe. But I have 9+ copies on local notebook, and that
beast is out of space all the time :-).
Pavel
-- 
(english) http://www.livejournal.com/~pavelmachek
(cesky, pictures) 
http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pavel/picture/horses/blog.html
-
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Re: [RFD] Documentation/HOWTO translated into Japanese

2007-06-12 Thread IKEDA Munehiro


Junio C Hamano wrote:

Tsugikazu Shibata <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:



On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 23:07:59 -0700, gregkh wrote:
...


So, Tsugikazu, care to resend this file as a patch that I can apply to
the Documentation directory of the kernel tree?  I think it would be
good to have there.


Here is a patch of Japanese translated HOWTO.
Thank you very much for lots of comment and suggestions.>all
Bellow is what I have done:

- Added Hiroyuki's comment with my own modifications as top notes.
- Character encoding is UTF-8



Oops?  I still see iso-2022-jp...


Definitely.  Ha ha ha.

Well, I re-made the patch and post instead of Tsugikazu Shibata.
The containt is perfectly same as the former patch except for its 
encoding which is now truely UTF-8.

(Actually, I fixed one broken line for only patching problem)

Thanks Junio for the pointing out and the good tool. ;-)

--
IKEDA, Munehiro
>From a42bd921c7595c6bdbfb650e474a2564ca5db762 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: Tsugikazu Shibata <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 17:16:12 +0900
Subject: [PATCH] add japanese howto

Signed-off-by: Tsugikazu Shibata <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
---
 Documentation/ja_JP/HOWTO |  650 +
 1 files changed, 650 insertions(+), 0 deletions(-)

diff --git a/Documentation/ja_JP/HOWTO b/Documentation/ja_JP/HOWTO
new file mode 100644
index 000..b2446a0
--- /dev/null
+++ b/Documentation/ja_JP/HOWTO
@@ -0,0 +1,650 @@
+NOTE:
+This is Japanese translated version of "Documentation/HOWTO".
+This one is maintained by Tsugikazu Shibata <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
+and JF Project team .
+If you find difference with original file or problem in translation,
+please contact maintainer of this file or JF project.
+
+Please also note that purpose of this file is easier to read for non
+English natives and not to be intended to fork. So, if you have any
+comments or updates of this file, please try to update Original(English)
+file at first.
+
+Last Updated: 2007/06/04
+==
+ããã¯ã
+linux-2.6.21/Documentation/HOWTO
+ã®åè¨³ã§ãã
+
+ç¿»è¨³å£ä½ï¼ JF ããã¸ã§ã¯ã < http://www.linux.or.jp/JF/ >
+ç¿»è¨³æ¥ï¼ 2007/06/04
+ç¿»è¨³èï¼ Tsugikazu Shibata 
+æ ¡æ£èï¼ æ¾åãã 
+ å°æ éå¸ãã (Masanori Kobayasi) 
+ æ¦äºä¼¸åããã
+ ããããã (Seiji Kaneko) 
+ éå£ãã (Kenji Noguchi) 
+ æ²³åãã (Takayoshi Kochi) 
+ å²©æ¬ãã (iwamoto) 
+==
+
+Linux ã«ã¼ãã«éçºã®ããæ¹
+---
+
+ããã¯ä¸ã®ãããã¯( Linux 
ã«ã¼ãã«éçºã®ããæ¹)ã®éè¦ãªäºæãç¶²ç¾ãã
+ããã¥ã¡ã³ãã§ããããã«ã¯ Linux 
ã«ã¼ãã«éçºèã«ãªãããã®æ¹æ³ã¨
+Linux 
ã«ã¼ãã«éçºã³ãã¥ããã£ã¨å±ã«æ´»åããããæ¹ãå¦ã¶æ¹æ³ãå«ã¾ãã¦
+ãã¾ããã«ã¼ãã«ããã°ã©ãã³ã°ã«é¢ããæè¡çãªé ç®ã«é¢ãããã¨ã¯ä½ãå«
+ããªãããã«ãã¦ãã¾ãããã«ã¼ãã«éçºèã¨ãªãããã®æ£ããæ¹åã«åãã
+æå©ãã«ãªãã¾ãã
+
+ããããã®ããã¥ã¡ã³ãã®ã©ãããå¤ããªã£ã¦ããå ´åã«ã¯ããã®ããã¥ã¡ã³
+ãã®æå¾ã«ãªã¹ãããã¡ã³ããã¼ã«ããããéã£ã¦ãã ããã
+
+ã¯ããã«
+-
+
+ããªãã¯ãLinux 
ã«ã¼ãã«ã®éçºèã«ãªãæ¹æ³ãå¦ã³ããã®ã§ããããï¼ãã
+ãã¨ãããªãã¯ä¸å¸ããããã®ããã¤ã¹ã® Linux 
ãã©ã¤ããæ¸ãããã«ãã¨
+è¨ããã¦ããã®ã§ããããï¼ã
+ãã®ææ¸ã®ç®çã¯ãããªããè¸ãã¹ãæé ã¨ãã³ãã¥ããã£ã¨ä¸ç·ã«ãã¾ãå
+ããã³ããæ¸ãä¸ããã¨ã§ãããªããç¥ãã¹ãå¨ã¦ã®ãã¨ãæãããã¨ã§ãã
+ã¾ãããã®ã³ãã¥ããã£ããªãä»ãã¾ãã¾ãã£ã¦ããã®ãã¨ããçç±ã®ä¸é¨ã
+èª¬æãããã¨è©¦ã¿ã¦ãã¾ãã
+
+ã«ã¼ãã«ã¯ 
å°éã®ã¢ã¼ããã¯ãã£ä¾åé¨åãã¢ã»ã³ããªè¨èªã§æ¸ããã¦ãã
+ä»¥å¤ã¯å¤§é¨åã¯ C 
è¨èªã§æ¸ããã¦ãã¾ããCè¨èªãããçè§£ãã¦ãããã¨ã¯ã«ã¼
+ãã«éçºèã«ã¯å¿è¦ã§ããã¢ã¼ããã¯ãã£åãã®ä½ã¬ãã«é¨åã®éçºãããã®
+ã§ãªããã°ã(ã©ããªã¢ã¼ããã¯ãã£ã§ã)ã¢ã»ã³ããª(è¨³æ³¨:
 è¨èª)ã¯å¿è¦ãã
+ã¾ãããä»¥ä¸ã®æ¬ã¯ãC 
è¨èªã®ååãªç¥èãä½å¹´ãã®çµé¨ã«åã£ã¦ä»£ãããã®
+ã§ã¯ããã¾ããããå°ãªãã¨ããªãã¡ã¬ã³ã¹ã¨ãã¦ã¯ããæ¬ã§ãã
+ - "The C Programming Language" by Kernighan and Ritchie [Prentice Hall]
+ -ãããã°ã©ãã³ã°è¨èªï¼£ç¬¬2çã(B.W. ã«ã¼ããã³/D.M. 
ãªããã¼è ç³ç°æ´ä¹è¨³) [å±ç«åºç]
+ - "Practical C Programming" by Steve Oualline [O'Reilly]
+ - ãCå®è·µããã°ã©ãã³ã°ç¬¬3çã(Steve Ouallineè 
ææåº·å¸ç£è¨³ è°·å£åè¨³)

Re: [RFD] Documentation/HOWTO translated into Japanese

2007-06-12 Thread Junio C Hamano

Tsugikazu Shibata <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 23:07:59 -0700, gregkh wrote:
> ...
>> So, Tsugikazu, care to resend this file as a patch that I can apply to
>> the Documentation directory of the kernel tree?  I think it would be
>> good to have there.
>
> Here is a patch of Japanese translated HOWTO.
> Thank you very much for lots of comment and suggestions.>all
> Bellow is what I have done:
>
> - Added Hiroyuki's comment with my own modifications as top notes.
> - Character encoding is UTF-8

Oops?  I still see iso-2022-jp...

> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=iso-2022-jp
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Content-Disposition: inline; filename="add-japanese-howto.patch"


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Re: [RFD] Documentation/HOWTO translated into Japanese

2007-06-12 Thread Junio C Hamano

Tsugikazu Shibata [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 23:07:59 -0700, gregkh wrote:
 ...
 So, Tsugikazu, care to resend this file as a patch that I can apply to
 the Documentation directory of the kernel tree?  I think it would be
 good to have there.

 Here is a patch of Japanese translated HOWTO.
 Thank you very much for lots of comment and suggestions.all
 Bellow is what I have done:

 - Added Hiroyuki's comment with my own modifications as top notes.
 - Character encoding is UTF-8

Oops?  I still see iso-2022-jp...

 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=iso-2022-jp
 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
 Content-Disposition: inline; filename=add-japanese-howto.patch


-
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in
the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/

Re: [RFD] Documentation/HOWTO translated into Japanese

2007-06-12 Thread IKEDA Munehiro


Junio C Hamano wrote:

Tsugikazu Shibata [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:



On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 23:07:59 -0700, gregkh wrote:
...


So, Tsugikazu, care to resend this file as a patch that I can apply to
the Documentation directory of the kernel tree?  I think it would be
good to have there.


Here is a patch of Japanese translated HOWTO.
Thank you very much for lots of comment and suggestions.all
Bellow is what I have done:

- Added Hiroyuki's comment with my own modifications as top notes.
- Character encoding is UTF-8



Oops?  I still see iso-2022-jp...


Definitely.  Ha ha ha.

Well, I re-made the patch and post instead of Tsugikazu Shibata.
The containt is perfectly same as the former patch except for its 
encoding which is now truely UTF-8.

(Actually, I fixed one broken line for only patching problem)

Thanks Junio for the pointing out and the good tool. ;-)

--
IKEDA, Munehiro
From a42bd921c7595c6bdbfb650e474a2564ca5db762 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: Tsugikazu Shibata [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 17:16:12 +0900
Subject: [PATCH] add japanese howto

Signed-off-by: Tsugikazu Shibata [EMAIL PROTECTED]
---
 Documentation/ja_JP/HOWTO |  650 +
 1 files changed, 650 insertions(+), 0 deletions(-)

diff --git a/Documentation/ja_JP/HOWTO b/Documentation/ja_JP/HOWTO
new file mode 100644
index 000..b2446a0
--- /dev/null
+++ b/Documentation/ja_JP/HOWTO
@@ -0,0 +1,650 @@
+NOTE:
+This is Japanese translated version of Documentation/HOWTO.
+This one is maintained by Tsugikazu Shibata [EMAIL PROTECTED]
+and JF Project team www.linux.or.jp/JF.
+If you find difference with original file or problem in translation,
+please contact maintainer of this file or JF project.
+
+Please also note that purpose of this file is easier to read for non
+English natives and not to be intended to fork. So, if you have any
+comments or updates of this file, please try to update Original(English)
+file at first.
+
+Last Updated: 2007/06/04
+==
+ããã¯ã
+linux-2.6.21/Documentation/HOWTO
+ã®åè¨³ã§ãã
+
+ç¿»è¨³å£ä½ï¼ JF ããã¸ã§ã¯ã  http://www.linux.or.jp/JF/ 
+ç¿»è¨³æ¥ï¼ 2007/06/04
+ç¿»è¨³èï¼ Tsugikazu Shibata tshibata at ab dot jp dot nec dot com
+æ ¡æ£èï¼ æ¾åãã nbh--mats at nifty dot com
+ å°æ éå¸ãã (Masanori Kobayasi) zap03216 at nifty dot ne dot 
jp
+ æ¦äºä¼¸åãããtakei at webmasters dot gr dot jp
+ ããããã (Seiji Kaneko) skaneko at a2 dot mbn dot or dot jp
+ éå£ãã (Kenji Noguchi) tokyo246 at gmail dot com
+ æ²³åãã (Takayoshi Kochi) t-kochi at bq dot jp dot nec dot com
+ å²©æ¬ãã (iwamoto) iwamoto.kn at ncos dot nec dot co dot jp
+==
+
+Linux ã«ã¼ãã«éçºã®ããæ¹
+---
+
+ããã¯ä¸ã®ãããã¯( Linux 
ã«ã¼ãã«éçºã®ããæ¹)ã®éè¦ãªäºæãç¶²ç¾ãã
+ããã¥ã¡ã³ãã§ããããã«ã¯ Linux 
ã«ã¼ãã«éçºèã«ãªãããã®æ¹æ³ã¨
+Linux 
ã«ã¼ãã«éçºã³ãã¥ããã£ã¨å±ã«æ´»åããããæ¹ãå¦ã¶æ¹æ³ãå«ã¾ãã¦
+ãã¾ããã«ã¼ãã«ããã°ã©ãã³ã°ã«é¢ããæè¡çãªé ç®ã«é¢ãããã¨ã¯ä½ãå«
+ããªãããã«ãã¦ãã¾ãããã«ã¼ãã«éçºèã¨ãªãããã®æ£ããæ¹åã«åãã
+æå©ãã«ãªãã¾ãã
+
+ããããã®ããã¥ã¡ã³ãã®ã©ãããå¤ããªã£ã¦ããå ´åã«ã¯ããã®ããã¥ã¡ã³
+ãã®æå¾ã«ãªã¹ãããã¡ã³ããã¼ã«ããããéã£ã¦ãã ããã
+
+ã¯ããã«
+-
+
+ããªãã¯ãLinux 
ã«ã¼ãã«ã®éçºèã«ãªãæ¹æ³ãå¦ã³ããã®ã§ããããï¼ãã
+ãã¨ãããªãã¯ä¸å¸ããããã®ããã¤ã¹ã® Linux 
ãã©ã¤ããæ¸ãããã«ãã¨
+è¨ããã¦ããã®ã§ããããï¼ã
+ãã®ææ¸ã®ç®çã¯ãããªããè¸ãã¹ãæé ã¨ãã³ãã¥ããã£ã¨ä¸ç·ã«ãã¾ãå
+ããã³ããæ¸ãä¸ããã¨ã§ãããªããç¥ãã¹ãå¨ã¦ã®ãã¨ãæãããã¨ã§ãã
+ã¾ãããã®ã³ãã¥ããã£ããªãä»ãã¾ãã¾ãã£ã¦ããã®ãã¨ããçç±ã®ä¸é¨ã
+èª¬æãããã¨è©¦ã¿ã¦ãã¾ãã
+
+ã«ã¼ãã«ã¯ 
å°éã®ã¢ã¼ããã¯ãã£ä¾åé¨åãã¢ã»ã³ããªè¨èªã§æ¸ããã¦ãã
+ä»¥å¤ã¯å¤§é¨åã¯ C 
è¨èªã§æ¸ããã¦ãã¾ããCè¨èªãããçè§£ãã¦ãããã¨ã¯ã«ã¼
+ãã«éçºèã«ã¯å¿è¦ã§ããã¢ã¼ããã¯ãã£åãã®ä½ã¬ãã«é¨åã®éçºãããã®
+ã§ãªããã°ã(ã©ããªã¢ã¼ããã¯ãã£ã§ã)ã¢ã»ã³ããª(è¨³æ³¨:
 è¨èª)ã¯å¿è¦ãã
+ã¾ãããä»¥ä¸ã®æ¬ã¯ãC 
è¨èªã®ååãªç¥èãä½å¹´ãã®çµé¨ã«åã£ã¦ä»£ãããã®
+ã§ã¯ããã¾ããããå°ãªãã¨ããªãã¡ã¬ã³ã¹ã¨ãã¦ã¯ããæ¬ã§ãã
+ - The C Programming Language by Kernighan and Ritchie [Prentice Hall]
+

Re: [RFD] Documentation/HOWTO translated into Japanese

2007-06-11 Thread IKEDA Munehiro


Tsugikazu Shibata wrote:

Here is a patch of Japanese translated HOWTO.
Thank you very much for lots of comment and suggestions.>all
Bellow is what I have done:

- Added Hiroyuki's comment with my own modifications as top notes.
- Character encoding is UTF-8
- The file is put in Documentation/ja_JP
- The patch is attached, not inlined because of MUA will sometimes
  force change the character encoding. Sorry.

I think We may need to discuss with JF team about much better JF
headers (written in Japanese) later.


And next, this is a patch-form Japanese translation of 
stable_api_nonsense.txt.

Current temporary state is same as Tsugikazu Shibata's made.

My former post was translation of 2.6.19 but this is of 2.6.22-rc4.
I modified translation along with the change at 2.6.20, which is the
latest version.
(And corrected typo of "volatile".  Thanks Alistair!)


--
IKEDA, Munehiro

>From 99e9f85036418b0f30825f4635bb224b592be57c Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: IKEDA, Munehiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 09:46:04 +0900
Subject: [PATCH] add Japanese translated stable_api_nonsense.txt

This is first trial to merge translated documentations into the mainline.
The directory where the file is should be discussed.
---
 Documentation/ja_JP/stable_api_nonsense.txt |  263 +++
 1 files changed, 263 insertions(+), 0 deletions(-)

diff --git a/Documentation/ja_JP/stable_api_nonsense.txt 
b/Documentation/ja_JP/stable_api_nonsense.txt
new file mode 100644
index 000..0b130e8
--- /dev/null
+++ b/Documentation/ja_JP/stable_api_nonsense.txt
@@ -0,0 +1,263 @@
+NOTE:
+This is a Japanese translated version of
+"Documentation/stable_api_nonsense.txt".
+This one is maintained by
+IKEDA, Munehiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
+and JF Project team .
+If you find difference with original file or problem in translation,
+please contact the maintainer of this file or JF project.
+
+Please also note that purpose of this file is easier to read for non
+English natives and not to be intended to fork. So, if you have any
+comments or updates of this file, please try to update
+Original(English) file at first.
+
+==
+ããã¯ã
+linux-2.6.22-rc4/Documentation/stable_api_nonsense.txt ã®åè¨³
+ã§ãã
+ç¿»è¨³å£ä½ï¼ JF ããã¸ã§ã¯ã < http://www.linux.or.jp/JF/ >
+ç¿»è¨³æ¥ ï¼ 2007/06/11
+åèä½è: Greg Kroah-Hartman < greg at kroah dot com >
+ç¿»è¨³è ï¼ æ± ç° å®åº < m-ikeda at ds dot jp dot nec dot com >
+æ ¡æ£è ï¼ Masanori Kobayashi ãã < zap03216 at nifty dot ne dot jp >
+  Seiji Kaneko ãã < skaneko at a2 dot mbn dot or dot jp >
+==
+
+
+
+Linux ã«ã¼ãã«ã®ãã©ã¤ãã¤ã³ã¿ã¼ãã§ã¼ã¹
+ï¼ããªãã®è³ªåãã¹ã¦ã«å¯¾ããåçã¨ãã®ä»è«¸ãï¼
+
+Greg Kroah-Hartman 
+
+
+ãã®ææ¸ã¯ããªã Linux 
ã§ã¯ãã¤ããªã«ã¼ãã«ã¤ã³ã¿ã¼ãã§ã¼ã¹ãå®ç¾©
+ããã¦ããªãã®ããã¾ãã¯ãªãä¸å¤ã®ã«ã¼ãã«ã¤ã³ã¿ã¼ãã§ã¼ã¹ãæããª
+ãã®ããã¨ãããã¨ãèª¬æããããã«æ¸ããããããã§ã®è©±é¡ã¯ãã«ã¼ã
+ã«åé¨ã®ãã¤ã³ã¿ã¼ãã§ã¼ã¹ã«ã¤ãã¦ã§ãããã¦ã¼ã¶ã¼ç©ºéã¨ã®ã¤ã³ã¿ã¼
+ãã§ã¼ã¹ã§ã¯ãªããã¨ãçè§£ãã¦ã»ãããã«ã¼ãã«ã¨ã¦ã¼ã¶ã¼ç©ºéã¨ã®ã¤
+ã³ã¿ã¼ãã§ã¼ã¹ã¨ã¯ã¢ããªã±ã¼ã·ã§ã³ããã°ã©ã ãä½¿ç¨ãããã®ã§ããã
+ã¤ã¾ãã·ã¹ãã ã³ã¼ã«ã®ã¤ã³ã¿ã¼ãã§ã¼ã¹ãããã«å½ãããããã¯ä»ã¾ã§
+é·ãã«æ¸¡ãããã¤ä»å¾ããã¾ããããä¸å¤ã§ãããç§ã¯ç¢ºã
 0.9 ãä½ã
+ããåã®ã«ã¼ãã«ãä½¿ã£ã¦ãã«ãããå¤ãããã°ã©ã ãæã£ã¦ããããã
+ãã¯ææ°ã® 2.6 
ã«ã¼ãã«ã§ããã¡ãã¨åä½ãããã¦ã¼ã¶ã¼ç©ºéã¨ã®ã¤ã³
+ã¿ã¼ãã§ã¼ã¹ã¯ãã¦ã¼ã¶ã¼ã¨ã¢ããªã±ã¼ã·ã§ã³ããã°ã©ããä¸å¤æ§ãä¿¡é ¼
+ãã¦ãããã®ã®ä¸ã¤ã§ããã
+
+
+è¦æ¨
+
+
+ããªãã¯ä¸å¤ã®ã«ã¼ãã«ã¤ã³ã¿ã¼ãã§ã¼ã¹ãå¿è¦ã ã¨èãã¦ãããããã
+ãªãããå®éã®ã¨ããã¯ããã§ã¯ãªããããªãã¯å¿è¦ã¨ãã¦ãããã®ãå
+ãã£ã¦ããªããããªããå¿è¦ã¨ãã¦ãããã®ã¯å®å®ãã¦åä½ãããã©ã¤ã
+ã§ãããããã¯ãã©ã¤ããã¡ã¤ã³ã®ã«ã¼ãã«ããªã¼ã«å«ã¾ããå ´åã®ã¿å¾
+ããã¨ãã§ããããã©ã¤ããã¡ã¤ã³ã®ã«ã¼ãã«ããªã¼ã«å«ã¾ãã¦ããã¨ã
+ä»ã«ãå¤ãã®è¯ããã¨ããããããã¯ãLinux 
ãããå¼·åºã§ãå®å®ãªãæ
+çãããªãã¬ã¼ãã£ã³ã°ã·ã¹ãã ã«ãããã¨ãã§ããã¨ãããã¨ã ããã
+ãããããããããªãã Linux ãä½¿ãçç±ã®ã¯ãã ã
+
+
+ã¯ããã«
+
+
+ã«ã¼ãã«åé¨ã®ã¤ã³ã¿ã¼ãã§ã¼ã¹å¤æ´ãå¿éããªããã°ãªããªããã©ã¤ã
+ãæ¸ããããªã©ã¨ããã®ã¯ãå¤ããèã

Re: [RFD] Documentation/HOWTO translated into Japanese

2007-06-11 Thread Tsugikazu Shibata

On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 23:07:59 -0700, gregkh wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 10, 2007 at 07:56:52PM +0200, Matthias Schniedermeyer wrote:
> >  Greg KH wrote:
> > > On Sun, Jun 10, 2007 at 02:24:51PM +0200, Jesper Juhl wrote:
> > >>  Since the common language of most kernel contributors is english I
> > >>  personally feel that we should stick to just that one language in the
> > >>  tree and then perhaps keep translations on a website somewhere. So the
> > >>  authoritative docs stay in the tree, in english, so that as many
> > >>  contributors as possible can read and update them. It would then be a
> > >>  seperate project to generate translations and keep them updated
> > >>  according to what's in the tree.  Perhaps we could get the kernel.org
> > >>  people to create an official space for that and then place a pointer
> > >>  to that site in Documentation/ somewhere.
> > > No, I think the translated files should be in the tree proper, we have
> > > the space :)
> > 
> >  Frankly i don't see the difference between this and the annual reoccurring 
> >  "why can't the kernel messages be localized" discussion.
> >  (Which is a little overdue, but maybe this replaces it this time.)
> 
> It is _vastly_ different.
> 
> >  I could see the point in ONE "HOWTO" file per language to get people 
> >  started, but everything else is a pointless exercise.
> >  A developer/bug-reporter has to be able to express him-/herself in English 
> >  and understand English, otherwise you can not accomplish very much.
> 
> Yes, but this file, and the stable-api-nonsense.txt files are there to
> help people understand both the kernel's philosophy, as well as
> encourage them to help contribute.
> 
> That is totally different from internationalizing the internal kernel
> messages (which, btw, some people are working on...)  That I would not
> agree to as it's just too hard to keep up with and would be pointless in
> a way.
> 
> So I really do want to see a translated copy of the HOWTO,
> stable-api-nonsense.txt, and possibly a few other files in the main
> kernel tree (SubmittingPatches, CodingStyle, and SubmittingDrivers might
> all be good canidates for this.)  These files change relativly
> infrequently (the HOWTO file has had only 7 changes in 1 and 1/2 years,
> and they were very minor ones) and should be easy for the translators to
> keep up with.
> 
> So, Tsugikazu, care to resend this file as a patch that I can apply to
> the Documentation directory of the kernel tree?  I think it would be
> good to have there.

Here is a patch of Japanese translated HOWTO.
Thank you very much for lots of comment and suggestions.>all
Bellow is what I have done:

- Added Hiroyuki's comment with my own modifications as top notes.
- Character encoding is UTF-8
- The file is put in Documentation/ja_JP
- The patch is attached, not inlined because of MUA will sometimes
  force change the character encoding. Sorry.

I think We may need to discuss with JF team about much better JF
headers (written in Japanese) later.

Thanks,
Tsugikazu Shibata
Signed-off-by: Tsugikazu Shibata <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

diff -uNpr linux-2.6.22-rc4.orig/Documentation/ja_JP/HOWTO 
linux-2.6.22-rc4/Documentation/ja_JP/HOWTO 
--- linux-2.6.22-rc4.orig/Documentation/ja_JP/HOWTO 1970-01-01 
09:00:00.0 +0900
+++ linux-2.6.22-rc4/Documentation/ja_JP/HOWTO  2007-06-12 09:35:50.0 
+0900
@@ -0,0 +1,650 @@
+NOTE:
+This is Japanese translated version of "Documentation/HOWTO".
+This one is maintained by Tsugikazu Shibata <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
+and JF Project team .
+If you find difference with original file or problem in translation,
+please contact maintainer of this file or JF project.
+
+Please also note that purpose of this file is easier to read for non
+English natives and not to be intended to fork. So, if you have any
+comments or updates of this file, please try to update Original(English)
+file at first.
+
+Last Updated: 2007/06/04
+==
+これは、
Signed-off-by: Tsugikazu Shibata <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

+linux-2.6.21/Documentation/HOWTO
+の和訳です。
+
+翻訳団体： JF プロジェクト < http://www.linux.or.jp/JF/ >
+翻訳日： 2007/06/04
+翻訳者： Tsugikazu Shibata 
+校正者： 松倉さん 
+ 小林 雅典さん (Masanori Kobayasi) 
+ 武井伸光さん、
+ かねこさん (Seiji Kaneko) 
+ 野口さん (Kenji Noguchi) 
+ 河内さん (Takayoshi Kochi) 
+ 岩本さん (iwamoto) 
+==
+
+Linux カーネル開発のやり方
+---
+
+これは上のトピック( Linux カーネル開発のやり方)の重要な事柄を網羅した
+ドキュメントです。ここには Linux カーネル開発者になるための方法と
+Linux カーネル開発コミュニティと共に活動するやり方を学ぶ方法が含まれて
+います。カーネルプログラミングに関する技術的な項目に関することは何も含
+めないようにしていますが、カーネル開発者となるための正しい方向に向かう
+手助けになります。
+
+もし、このドキュメントのどこかが古くなっていた場合には、このドキュメン
+トの最後にリストしたメンテナーにパッチを送ってください。
+
+はじめに
+-
+
+あなたは　Linux カーネルの開発者になる方法を学びたいのでしょうか？　そ
+れともあなたは上司から「このデバイスの Linux ドライバを書くように」と
+言われているのでしょうか？　
+この文書の目的は、あなたが踏むべき手順と、コミュニティと一緒にうまく働
+くヒントを書き下すことで、あなたが知るべき全てのことを教えることです。
+また、このコミュニティがなぜ今うまくまわっているのかという理由の一部も
+説明しようと試みています。
+
+カーネルは

Re: [RFD] Documentation/HOWTO translated into Japanese

2007-06-11 Thread Tony Luck


I'd rather have a single file, marked "Japanese" (in Japanese), that
had pointers to current translations. These will always be at least as
current as whatever we have in the tree, if not more so. Especially
when someone is trying to figure out how to work based on the year-old
kernel their embedded vendor gave them.


Knowing whether a translation is current or not would be useful ... perhaps
the translated files could include the GIT blob SHA1 of the version they
were translated from (and some human readable version string too :-)
This would allow someone reading the documentation to know whether
is really was current.  If it isn't, it provides an easy path to see what
changed in the source document since the translation was made. This
same diff should lighten the load for people maintaining the translation.

-Tony
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Re: [RFD] Documentation/HOWTO translated into Japanese

2007-06-11 Thread Matt Mackall

On Sun, Jun 10, 2007 at 11:07:59PM -0700, Greg KH wrote:
> So, Tsugikazu, care to resend this file as a patch that I can apply to
> the Documentation directory of the kernel tree?  I think it would be
> good to have there.

I'd rather have a single file, marked "Japanese" (in Japanese), that
had pointers to current translations. These will always be at least as
current as whatever we have in the tree, if not more so. Especially
when someone is trying to figure out how to work based on the year-old
kernel their embedded vendor gave them.

Further, it might be good for someone to be the "Japanese maintainer".
This person's job would be to accept patches from non-English-speaking
contributors, translate their commit messages and comments, then
forward them to the appropriate places (Andrew, subsystem maintainers,
LKML, etc.). They should also distill and translate feedback.

-- 
Mathematics is the supreme nostalgia of our time.
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Re: [RFD] Documentation/HOWTO translated into Japanese

2007-06-11 Thread Rene Herman


On 06/11/2007 01:28 PM, KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki wrote:


Rene Herman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Please don't say that -- I perfectly understood what you were saying and as 
such it was of perfect use. There's a large number of non-native English 
speakers around the Linux kernel and noone is expected to write flawless 
English (that's including native speakers in fact).


Getting a native speaker to clean up grammer and spelling is fine ofcourse 
as it's makes for a lower effort read for many others but please don't say


Case in point -- s/it's/it/

that something which isn't flawlessly spelled is of no use. As long as the 
content is clear, it's of great use!



Thank you.

But I know my grammar-check skill is not so good. I should make it better.
I always thank all commenters who fix my sentences.


It used to be customary at least on usenet to add "(sp?)" to a word you 
weren't certain about but it never worked for me. When I indicated I wanted 
to be acked/naked like that I really did but it was always just ignored. 
That in itself is enough indication of how deeply people care about spelling 
in technical content...


Rene.
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Re: [RFD] Documentation/HOWTO translated into Japanese

2007-06-11 Thread KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki

On Mon, 11 Jun 2007 13:16:56 +0200
Rene Herman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


> > Oh, sorry. I know I have language problem for years. 
> > My doc itself is of-no-use, I know. They will write their own by themselves.
> 
> Please don't say that -- I perfectly understood what you were saying and as 
> such it was of perfect use. There's a large number of non-native English 
> speakers around the Linux kernel and noone is expected to write flawless 
> English (that's including native speakers in fact).
> 
> Getting a native speaker to clean up grammer and spelling is fine ofcourse 
> as it's makes for a lower effort read for many others but please don't say 
> that something which isn't flawlessly spelled is of no use. As long as the 
> content is clear, it's of great use!
> 
Thank you.

But I know my grammar-check skill is not so good. I should make it better.
I always thank all commenters who fix my sentences.

Regards,
-Kame

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Re: [RFD] Documentation/HOWTO translated into Japanese

2007-06-11 Thread Rene Herman


On 06/11/2007 12:46 PM, KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki wrote:


"Qi Yong" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


On 11/06/07, KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Hi, thank you for your work. I was impressed.

BTW, how about adding following lines (both in Japanese and English) ?
==
This is translated "HOWTO" documentation. Original "HOWTO" is maintaind by
Greg Kroah-Hartman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> and linux kernal mailing list.
And this one is maintained by Tsugikazu Shibata <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
and JF Projet . Because original HOWTO documentation itself
is being updated day and night, this file may contain old sentences. Please 
contact
JF project if you find problems in translation.

It is guaranteed that this file is just a translation and doesn't contains any

There are language problems, like s/contains/contain/. The author
please try fixing them at the fist place instead of adding jobs to
janitors.

Oh, sorry. I know I have language problem for years. 
My doc itself is of-no-use, I know. They will write their own by themselves.


Please don't say that -- I perfectly understood what you were saying and as 
such it was of perfect use. There's a large number of non-native English 
speakers around the Linux kernel and noone is expected to write flawless 
English (that's including native speakers in fact).


Getting a native speaker to clean up grammer and spelling is fine ofcourse 
as it's makes for a lower effort read for many others but please don't say 
that something which isn't flawlessly spelled is of no use. As long as the 
content is clear, it's of great use!


Rene.

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Re: [RFD] Documentation/HOWTO translated into Japanese

2007-06-11 Thread KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki

On Mon, 11 Jun 2007 18:21:30 +0800
"Qi Yong" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On 11/06/07, KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Hi, thank you for your work. I was impressed.
> >
> > BTW, how about adding following lines (both in Japanese and English) ?
> > ==
> > This is translated "HOWTO" documentation. Original "HOWTO" is maintaind by
> > Greg Kroah-Hartman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> and linux kernal mailing list.
> > And this one is maintained by Tsugikazu Shibata <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > and JF Projet . Because original HOWTO documentation 
> > itself
> > is being updated day and night, this file may contain old sentences. Please 
> > contact
> > JF project if you find problems in translation.
> >
> > It is guaranteed that this file is just a translation and doesn't contains 
> > any
> 
> There are language problems, like s/contains/contain/. The author
> please try fixing them at the fist place instead of adding jobs to
> janitors.
> 
Oh, sorry. I know I have language problem for years. 
My doc itself is of-no-use, I know. They will write their own by themselves.

-Kame

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Re: [RFD] Documentation/HOWTO translated into Japanese

2007-06-11 Thread Qi Yong


On 11/06/07, KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Hi, thank you for your work. I was impressed.

BTW, how about adding following lines (both in Japanese and English) ?
==
This is translated "HOWTO" documentation. Original "HOWTO" is maintaind by
Greg Kroah-Hartman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> and linux kernal mailing list.
And this one is maintained by Tsugikazu Shibata <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
and JF Projet . Because original HOWTO documentation itself
is being updated day and night, this file may contain old sentences. Please 
contact
JF project if you find problems in translation.

It is guaranteed that this file is just a translation and doesn't contains any


There are language problems, like s/contains/contain/. The author
please try fixing them at the fist place instead of adding jobs to
janitors.


additional information, sentences. If you want to update "HOWTO", please update
English version first. Don't fork from original if you update this file.

Last Updated: 2007/06/04  Version: 2.6.21
==

not worth writing ?

-Kame


--
Qi Yong
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Re: [RFD] Documentation/HOWTO translated into Japanese

2007-06-11 Thread Hiro Yoshioka

Hi,

Shibata san's contribution was really great. I was impressed too.

I think the important point is that Shibata san let the
linux kernel community knows the translation work has been done
and ask the feedback.

I think this two way communication is very important.

On 6/11/07, Greg KH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

On Mon, Jun 11, 2007 at 11:55:57AM +0900, KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki wrote:
>
> Hi, thank you for your work. I was impressed.
>
> BTW, how about adding following lines (both in Japanese and English) ?
> ==
> This is translated "HOWTO" documentation. Original "HOWTO" is maintaind by
> Greg Kroah-Hartman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> and linux kernal mailing list.
> And this one is maintained by Tsugikazu Shibata <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> and JF Projet . Because original HOWTO documentation 
itself
> is being updated day and night, this file may contain old sentences. Please 
contact
> JF project if you find problems in translation.
>
> It is guaranteed that this file is just a translation and doesn't contains any
> additional information, sentences. If you want to update "HOWTO", please 
update
> English version first. Don't fork from original if you update this file.
>
> Last Updated: 2007/06/04  Version: 2.6.21
> ==
>
> not worth writing ?

That sounds fine with me, and would be good to have.  I also have no
problem also CC:ing anyone who wants to translate this file with patches
that happen to modify the originals.  That way they can easily keep up
with the minor number of changes that happen over time.

I think that some members of YLUG (Yokohama Linux Users Group)
may help to review the translations. :-)

Regards,
 Hiro
--
Hiro Yoshioka
mailto:hyoshiok at miraclelinux.com
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Re: [RFD] Documentation/HOWTO translated into Japanese

2007-06-11 Thread Matthias Schniedermeyer

Greg KH wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 10, 2007 at 07:56:52PM +0200, Matthias Schniedermeyer wrote:
>>  Greg KH wrote:
>>  I could see the point in ONE "HOWTO" file per language to get people 
>>  started, but everything else is a pointless exercise.
>>  A developer/bug-reporter has to be able to express him-/herself in English 
>>  and understand English, otherwise you can not accomplish very much.
> 
> Yes, but this file, and the stable-api-nonsense.txt files are there to
> help people understand both the kernel's philosophy, as well as
> encourage them to help contribute.

This was the part that i understood wrong.
I thought the point was a translation of Documentation/*.

A concur that translating this small set of files could be helpful.




-- 
Real Programmers consider "what you see is what you get" to be just as
bad a concept in Text Editors as it is in women. No, the Real Programmer
wants a "you asked for it, you got it" text editor -- complicated,
cryptic, powerful, unforgiving, dangerous.

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Re: [RFD] Documentation/HOWTO translated into Japanese

2007-06-11 Thread Greg KH

On Sun, Jun 10, 2007 at 07:56:52PM +0200, Matthias Schniedermeyer wrote:
>  Greg KH wrote:
> > On Sun, Jun 10, 2007 at 02:24:51PM +0200, Jesper Juhl wrote:
> >>  Since the common language of most kernel contributors is english I
> >>  personally feel that we should stick to just that one language in the
> >>  tree and then perhaps keep translations on a website somewhere. So the
> >>  authoritative docs stay in the tree, in english, so that as many
> >>  contributors as possible can read and update them. It would then be a
> >>  seperate project to generate translations and keep them updated
> >>  according to what's in the tree.  Perhaps we could get the kernel.org
> >>  people to create an official space for that and then place a pointer
> >>  to that site in Documentation/ somewhere.
> > No, I think the translated files should be in the tree proper, we have
> > the space :)
> 
>  Frankly i don't see the difference between this and the annual reoccurring 
>  "why can't the kernel messages be localized" discussion.
>  (Which is a little overdue, but maybe this replaces it this time.)

It is _vastly_ different.

>  I could see the point in ONE "HOWTO" file per language to get people 
>  started, but everything else is a pointless exercise.
>  A developer/bug-reporter has to be able to express him-/herself in English 
>  and understand English, otherwise you can not accomplish very much.

Yes, but this file, and the stable-api-nonsense.txt files are there to
help people understand both the kernel's philosophy, as well as
encourage them to help contribute.

That is totally different from internationalizing the internal kernel
messages (which, btw, some people are working on...)  That I would not
agree to as it's just too hard to keep up with and would be pointless in
a way.

So I really do want to see a translated copy of the HOWTO,
stable-api-nonsense.txt, and possibly a few other files in the main
kernel tree (SubmittingPatches, CodingStyle, and SubmittingDrivers might
all be good canidates for this.)  These files change relativly
infrequently (the HOWTO file has had only 7 changes in 1 and 1/2 years,
and they were very minor ones) and should be easy for the translators to
keep up with.

So, Tsugikazu, care to resend this file as a patch that I can apply to
the Documentation directory of the kernel tree?  I think it would be
good to have there.

thanks,

greg k-h
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Re: [RFD] Documentation/HOWTO translated into Japanese

2007-06-11 Thread Greg KH

On Mon, Jun 11, 2007 at 11:55:57AM +0900, KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki wrote:
> 
> Hi, thank you for your work. I was impressed.
> 
> BTW, how about adding following lines (both in Japanese and English) ?
> ==
> This is translated "HOWTO" documentation. Original "HOWTO" is maintaind by 
> Greg Kroah-Hartman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> and linux kernal mailing list.
> And this one is maintained by Tsugikazu Shibata <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> and JF Projet . Because original HOWTO documentation 
> itself
> is being updated day and night, this file may contain old sentences. Please 
> contact
> JF project if you find problems in translation.
> 
> It is guaranteed that this file is just a translation and doesn't contains any
> additional information, sentences. If you want to update "HOWTO", please 
> update
> English version first. Don't fork from original if you update this file.
> 
> Last Updated: 2007/06/04  Version: 2.6.21
> ==
> 
> not worth writing ?

That sounds fine with me, and would be good to have.  I also have no
problem also CC:ing anyone who wants to translate this file with patches
that happen to modify the originals.  That way they can easily keep up
with the minor number of changes that happen over time.

thanks,

greg k-h
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Re: [RFD] Documentation/HOWTO translated into Japanese

2007-06-11 Thread Greg KH

On Sun, Jun 10, 2007 at 07:56:52PM +0200, Matthias Schniedermeyer wrote:
  Greg KH wrote:
  On Sun, Jun 10, 2007 at 02:24:51PM +0200, Jesper Juhl wrote:
   Since the common language of most kernel contributors is english I
   personally feel that we should stick to just that one language in the
   tree and then perhaps keep translations on a website somewhere. So the
   authoritative docs stay in the tree, in english, so that as many
   contributors as possible can read and update them. It would then be a
   seperate project to generate translations and keep them updated
   according to what's in the tree.  Perhaps we could get the kernel.org
   people to create an official space for that and then place a pointer
   to that site in Documentation/ somewhere.
  No, I think the translated files should be in the tree proper, we have
  the space :)
 
  Frankly i don't see the difference between this and the annual reoccurring 
  why can't the kernel messages be localized discussion.
  (Which is a little overdue, but maybe this replaces it this time.)

It is _vastly_ different.

  I could see the point in ONE HOWTO file per language to get people 
  started, but everything else is a pointless exercise.
  A developer/bug-reporter has to be able to express him-/herself in English 
  and understand English, otherwise you can not accomplish very much.

Yes, but this file, and the stable-api-nonsense.txt files are there to
help people understand both the kernel's philosophy, as well as
encourage them to help contribute.

That is totally different from internationalizing the internal kernel
messages (which, btw, some people are working on...)  That I would not
agree to as it's just too hard to keep up with and would be pointless in
a way.

So I really do want to see a translated copy of the HOWTO,
stable-api-nonsense.txt, and possibly a few other files in the main
kernel tree (SubmittingPatches, CodingStyle, and SubmittingDrivers might
all be good canidates for this.)  These files change relativly
infrequently (the HOWTO file has had only 7 changes in 1 and 1/2 years,
and they were very minor ones) and should be easy for the translators to
keep up with.

So, Tsugikazu, care to resend this file as a patch that I can apply to
the Documentation directory of the kernel tree?  I think it would be
good to have there.

thanks,

greg k-h
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Re: [RFD] Documentation/HOWTO translated into Japanese

2007-06-11 Thread Greg KH

On Mon, Jun 11, 2007 at 11:55:57AM +0900, KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki wrote:
 
 Hi, thank you for your work. I was impressed.
 
 BTW, how about adding following lines (both in Japanese and English) ?
 ==
 This is translated HOWTO documentation. Original HOWTO is maintaind by 
 Greg Kroah-Hartman [EMAIL PROTECTED] and linux kernal mailing list.
 And this one is maintained by Tsugikazu Shibata [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 and JF Projet www.linux.or.jp/JF. Because original HOWTO documentation 
 itself
 is being updated day and night, this file may contain old sentences. Please 
 contact
 JF project if you find problems in translation.
 
 It is guaranteed that this file is just a translation and doesn't contains any
 additional information, sentences. If you want to update HOWTO, please 
 update
 English version first. Don't fork from original if you update this file.
 
 Last Updated: 2007/06/04  Version: 2.6.21
 ==
 
 not worth writing ?

That sounds fine with me, and would be good to have.  I also have no
problem also CC:ing anyone who wants to translate this file with patches
that happen to modify the originals.  That way they can easily keep up
with the minor number of changes that happen over time.

thanks,

greg k-h
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Re: [RFD] Documentation/HOWTO translated into Japanese

2007-06-11 Thread Matthias Schniedermeyer

Greg KH wrote:
 On Sun, Jun 10, 2007 at 07:56:52PM +0200, Matthias Schniedermeyer wrote:
  Greg KH wrote:
  I could see the point in ONE HOWTO file per language to get people 
  started, but everything else is a pointless exercise.
  A developer/bug-reporter has to be able to express him-/herself in English 
  and understand English, otherwise you can not accomplish very much.
 
 Yes, but this file, and the stable-api-nonsense.txt files are there to
 help people understand both the kernel's philosophy, as well as
 encourage them to help contribute.

This was the part that i understood wrong.
I thought the point was a translation of Documentation/*.

A concur that translating this small set of files could be helpful.




-- 
Real Programmers consider what you see is what you get to be just as
bad a concept in Text Editors as it is in women. No, the Real Programmer
wants a you asked for it, you got it text editor -- complicated,
cryptic, powerful, unforgiving, dangerous.

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Re: [RFD] Documentation/HOWTO translated into Japanese

2007-06-11 Thread Hiro Yoshioka


Hi,

Shibata san's contribution was really great. I was impressed too.

I think the important point is that Shibata san let the
linux kernel community knows the translation work has been done
and ask the feedback.

I think this two way communication is very important.

On 6/11/07, Greg KH [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

On Mon, Jun 11, 2007 at 11:55:57AM +0900, KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki wrote:

 Hi, thank you for your work. I was impressed.

 BTW, how about adding following lines (both in Japanese and English) ?
 ==
 This is translated HOWTO documentation. Original HOWTO is maintaind by
 Greg Kroah-Hartman [EMAIL PROTECTED] and linux kernal mailing list.
 And this one is maintained by Tsugikazu Shibata [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 and JF Projet www.linux.or.jp/JF. Because original HOWTO documentation 
itself
 is being updated day and night, this file may contain old sentences. Please 
contact
 JF project if you find problems in translation.

 It is guaranteed that this file is just a translation and doesn't contains any
 additional information, sentences. If you want to update HOWTO, please 
update
 English version first. Don't fork from original if you update this file.

 Last Updated: 2007/06/04  Version: 2.6.21
 ==

 not worth writing ?

That sounds fine with me, and would be good to have.  I also have no
problem also CC:ing anyone who wants to translate this file with patches
that happen to modify the originals.  That way they can easily keep up
with the minor number of changes that happen over time.


I think that some members of YLUG (Yokohama Linux Users Group)
may help to review the translations. :-)

Regards,
 Hiro
--
Hiro Yoshioka
mailto:hyoshiok at miraclelinux.com
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Re: [RFD] Documentation/HOWTO translated into Japanese

2007-06-11 Thread Qi Yong


On 11/06/07, KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Hi, thank you for your work. I was impressed.

BTW, how about adding following lines (both in Japanese and English) ?
==
This is translated HOWTO documentation. Original HOWTO is maintaind by
Greg Kroah-Hartman [EMAIL PROTECTED] and linux kernal mailing list.
And this one is maintained by Tsugikazu Shibata [EMAIL PROTECTED]
and JF Projet www.linux.or.jp/JF. Because original HOWTO documentation itself
is being updated day and night, this file may contain old sentences. Please 
contact
JF project if you find problems in translation.

It is guaranteed that this file is just a translation and doesn't contains any


There are language problems, like s/contains/contain/. The author
please try fixing them at the fist place instead of adding jobs to
janitors.


additional information, sentences. If you want to update HOWTO, please update
English version first. Don't fork from original if you update this file.

Last Updated: 2007/06/04  Version: 2.6.21
==

not worth writing ?

-Kame


--
Qi Yong
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Re: [RFD] Documentation/HOWTO translated into Japanese

2007-06-11 Thread KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki

On Mon, 11 Jun 2007 18:21:30 +0800
Qi Yong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On 11/06/07, KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  Hi, thank you for your work. I was impressed.
 
  BTW, how about adding following lines (both in Japanese and English) ?
  ==
  This is translated HOWTO documentation. Original HOWTO is maintaind by
  Greg Kroah-Hartman [EMAIL PROTECTED] and linux kernal mailing list.
  And this one is maintained by Tsugikazu Shibata [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  and JF Projet www.linux.or.jp/JF. Because original HOWTO documentation 
  itself
  is being updated day and night, this file may contain old sentences. Please 
  contact
  JF project if you find problems in translation.
 
  It is guaranteed that this file is just a translation and doesn't contains 
  any
 
 There are language problems, like s/contains/contain/. The author
 please try fixing them at the fist place instead of adding jobs to
 janitors.
 
Oh, sorry. I know I have language problem for years. 
My doc itself is of-no-use, I know. They will write their own by themselves.

-Kame

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Re: [RFD] Documentation/HOWTO translated into Japanese

2007-06-11 Thread Rene Herman


On 06/11/2007 12:46 PM, KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki wrote:


Qi Yong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


On 11/06/07, KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Hi, thank you for your work. I was impressed.

BTW, how about adding following lines (both in Japanese and English) ?
==
This is translated HOWTO documentation. Original HOWTO is maintaind by
Greg Kroah-Hartman [EMAIL PROTECTED] and linux kernal mailing list.
And this one is maintained by Tsugikazu Shibata [EMAIL PROTECTED]
and JF Projet www.linux.or.jp/JF. Because original HOWTO documentation itself
is being updated day and night, this file may contain old sentences. Please 
contact
JF project if you find problems in translation.

It is guaranteed that this file is just a translation and doesn't contains any

There are language problems, like s/contains/contain/. The author
please try fixing them at the fist place instead of adding jobs to
janitors.

Oh, sorry. I know I have language problem for years. 
My doc itself is of-no-use, I know. They will write their own by themselves.


Please don't say that -- I perfectly understood what you were saying and as 
such it was of perfect use. There's a large number of non-native English 
speakers around the Linux kernel and noone is expected to write flawless 
English (that's including native speakers in fact).


Getting a native speaker to clean up grammer and spelling is fine ofcourse 
as it's makes for a lower effort read for many others but please don't say 
that something which isn't flawlessly spelled is of no use. As long as the 
content is clear, it's of great use!


Rene.

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Re: [RFD] Documentation/HOWTO translated into Japanese

2007-06-11 Thread KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki

On Mon, 11 Jun 2007 13:16:56 +0200
Rene Herman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


  Oh, sorry. I know I have language problem for years. 
  My doc itself is of-no-use, I know. They will write their own by themselves.
 
 Please don't say that -- I perfectly understood what you were saying and as 
 such it was of perfect use. There's a large number of non-native English 
 speakers around the Linux kernel and noone is expected to write flawless 
 English (that's including native speakers in fact).
 
 Getting a native speaker to clean up grammer and spelling is fine ofcourse 
 as it's makes for a lower effort read for many others but please don't say 
 that something which isn't flawlessly spelled is of no use. As long as the 
 content is clear, it's of great use!
 
Thank you.

But I know my grammar-check skill is not so good. I should make it better.
I always thank all commenters who fix my sentences.

Regards,
-Kame

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Re: [RFD] Documentation/HOWTO translated into Japanese

2007-06-11 Thread Rene Herman


On 06/11/2007 01:28 PM, KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki wrote:


Rene Herman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Please don't say that -- I perfectly understood what you were saying and as 
such it was of perfect use. There's a large number of non-native English 
speakers around the Linux kernel and noone is expected to write flawless 
English (that's including native speakers in fact).


Getting a native speaker to clean up grammer and spelling is fine ofcourse 
as it's makes for a lower effort read for many others but please don't say


Case in point -- s/it's/it/

that something which isn't flawlessly spelled is of no use. As long as the 
content is clear, it's of great use!



Thank you.

But I know my grammar-check skill is not so good. I should make it better.
I always thank all commenters who fix my sentences.


It used to be customary at least on usenet to add (sp?) to a word you 
weren't certain about but it never worked for me. When I indicated I wanted 
to be acked/naked like that I really did but it was always just ignored. 
That in itself is enough indication of how deeply people care about spelling 
in technical content...


Rene.
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Re: [RFD] Documentation/HOWTO translated into Japanese

2007-06-11 Thread Matt Mackall

On Sun, Jun 10, 2007 at 11:07:59PM -0700, Greg KH wrote:
 So, Tsugikazu, care to resend this file as a patch that I can apply to
 the Documentation directory of the kernel tree?  I think it would be
 good to have there.

I'd rather have a single file, marked Japanese (in Japanese), that
had pointers to current translations. These will always be at least as
current as whatever we have in the tree, if not more so. Especially
when someone is trying to figure out how to work based on the year-old
kernel their embedded vendor gave them.

Further, it might be good for someone to be the Japanese maintainer.
This person's job would be to accept patches from non-English-speaking
contributors, translate their commit messages and comments, then
forward them to the appropriate places (Andrew, subsystem maintainers,
LKML, etc.). They should also distill and translate feedback.

-- 
Mathematics is the supreme nostalgia of our time.
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Re: [RFD] Documentation/HOWTO translated into Japanese

2007-06-11 Thread Tony Luck


I'd rather have a single file, marked Japanese (in Japanese), that
had pointers to current translations. These will always be at least as
current as whatever we have in the tree, if not more so. Especially
when someone is trying to figure out how to work based on the year-old
kernel their embedded vendor gave them.


Knowing whether a translation is current or not would be useful ... perhaps
the translated files could include the GIT blob SHA1 of the version they
were translated from (and some human readable version string too :-)
This would allow someone reading the documentation to know whether
is really was current.  If it isn't, it provides an easy path to see what
changed in the source document since the translation was made. This
same diff should lighten the load for people maintaining the translation.

-Tony
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Re: [RFD] Documentation/HOWTO translated into Japanese

2007-06-11 Thread Tsugikazu Shibata

On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 23:07:59 -0700, gregkh wrote:
 On Sun, Jun 10, 2007 at 07:56:52PM +0200, Matthias Schniedermeyer wrote:
   Greg KH wrote:
   On Sun, Jun 10, 2007 at 02:24:51PM +0200, Jesper Juhl wrote:
Since the common language of most kernel contributors is english I
personally feel that we should stick to just that one language in the
tree and then perhaps keep translations on a website somewhere. So the
authoritative docs stay in the tree, in english, so that as many
contributors as possible can read and update them. It would then be a
seperate project to generate translations and keep them updated
according to what's in the tree.  Perhaps we could get the kernel.org
people to create an official space for that and then place a pointer
to that site in Documentation/ somewhere.
   No, I think the translated files should be in the tree proper, we have
   the space :)
  
   Frankly i don't see the difference between this and the annual reoccurring 
   why can't the kernel messages be localized discussion.
   (Which is a little overdue, but maybe this replaces it this time.)
 
 It is _vastly_ different.
 
   I could see the point in ONE HOWTO file per language to get people 
   started, but everything else is a pointless exercise.
   A developer/bug-reporter has to be able to express him-/herself in English 
   and understand English, otherwise you can not accomplish very much.
 
 Yes, but this file, and the stable-api-nonsense.txt files are there to
 help people understand both the kernel's philosophy, as well as
 encourage them to help contribute.
 
 That is totally different from internationalizing the internal kernel
 messages (which, btw, some people are working on...)  That I would not
 agree to as it's just too hard to keep up with and would be pointless in
 a way.
 
 So I really do want to see a translated copy of the HOWTO,
 stable-api-nonsense.txt, and possibly a few other files in the main
 kernel tree (SubmittingPatches, CodingStyle, and SubmittingDrivers might
 all be good canidates for this.)  These files change relativly
 infrequently (the HOWTO file has had only 7 changes in 1 and 1/2 years,
 and they were very minor ones) and should be easy for the translators to
 keep up with.
 
 So, Tsugikazu, care to resend this file as a patch that I can apply to
 the Documentation directory of the kernel tree?  I think it would be
 good to have there.

Here is a patch of Japanese translated HOWTO.
Thank you very much for lots of comment and suggestions.all
Bellow is what I have done:

- Added Hiroyuki's comment with my own modifications as top notes.
- Character encoding is UTF-8
- The file is put in Documentation/ja_JP
- The patch is attached, not inlined because of MUA will sometimes
  force change the character encoding. Sorry.

I think We may need to discuss with JF team about much better JF
headers (written in Japanese) later.

Thanks,
Tsugikazu Shibata
Signed-off-by: Tsugikazu Shibata [EMAIL PROTECTED]

diff -uNpr linux-2.6.22-rc4.orig/Documentation/ja_JP/HOWTO 
linux-2.6.22-rc4/Documentation/ja_JP/HOWTO 
--- linux-2.6.22-rc4.orig/Documentation/ja_JP/HOWTO 1970-01-01 
09:00:00.0 +0900
+++ linux-2.6.22-rc4/Documentation/ja_JP/HOWTO  2007-06-12 09:35:50.0 
+0900
@@ -0,0 +1,650 @@
+NOTE:
+This is Japanese translated version of Documentation/HOWTO.
+This one is maintained by Tsugikazu Shibata [EMAIL PROTECTED]
+and JF Project team www.linux.or.jp/JF.
+If you find difference with original file or problem in translation,
+please contact maintainer of this file or JF project.
+
+Please also note that purpose of this file is easier to read for non
+English natives and not to be intended to fork. So, if you have any
+comments or updates of this file, please try to update Original(English)
+file at first.
+
+Last Updated: 2007/06/04
+==
+これは、
Signed-off-by: Tsugikazu Shibata [EMAIL PROTECTED]

+linux-2.6.21/Documentation/HOWTO
+の和訳です。
+
+翻訳団体： JF プロジェクト  http://www.linux.or.jp/JF/ 
+翻訳日： 2007/06/04
+翻訳者： Tsugikazu Shibata tshibata at ab dot jp dot nec dot com
+校正者： 松倉さん nbh--mats at nifty dot com
+ 小林 雅典さん (Masanori Kobayasi) zap03216 at nifty dot ne dot jp
+ 武井伸光さん、takei at webmasters dot gr dot jp
+ かねこさん (Seiji Kaneko) skaneko at a2 dot mbn dot or dot jp
+ 野口さん (Kenji Noguchi) tokyo246 at gmail dot com
+ 河内さん (Takayoshi Kochi) t-kochi at bq dot jp dot nec dot com
+ 岩本さん (iwamoto) iwamoto.kn at ncos dot nec dot co dot jp
+==
+
+Linux カーネル開発のやり方
+---
+
+これは上のトピック( Linux カーネル開発のやり方)の重要な事柄を網羅した
+ドキュメントです。ここには Linux カーネル開発者になるための方法と
+Linux カーネル開発コミュニティと共に活動するやり方を学ぶ方法が含まれて
+います。カーネルプログラミングに関する技術的な項目に関することは何も含
+めないようにしていますが、カーネル開発者となるための正しい方向に向かう
+手助けになります。
+
+もし、このドキュメントのどこかが古くなっていた場合には、このドキュメン
+トの最後にリストしたメンテナーにパッチを送ってください。
+
+はじめに
+-
+
+あなたは　Linux カーネルの開発者になる方法を学びたいのでしょうか？　そ
+れともあなたは上司から「このデバイスの Linux

Re: [RFD] Documentation/HOWTO translated into Japanese

2007-06-11 Thread IKEDA Munehiro


Tsugikazu Shibata wrote:

Here is a patch of Japanese translated HOWTO.
Thank you very much for lots of comment and suggestions.all
Bellow is what I have done:

- Added Hiroyuki's comment with my own modifications as top notes.
- Character encoding is UTF-8
- The file is put in Documentation/ja_JP
- The patch is attached, not inlined because of MUA will sometimes
  force change the character encoding. Sorry.

I think We may need to discuss with JF team about much better JF
headers (written in Japanese) later.


And next, this is a patch-form Japanese translation of 
stable_api_nonsense.txt.

Current temporary state is same as Tsugikazu Shibata's made.

My former post was translation of 2.6.19 but this is of 2.6.22-rc4.
I modified translation along with the change at 2.6.20, which is the
latest version.
(And corrected typo of volatile.  Thanks Alistair!)


--
IKEDA, Munehiro

From 99e9f85036418b0f30825f4635bb224b592be57c Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: IKEDA, Munehiro [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 09:46:04 +0900
Subject: [PATCH] add Japanese translated stable_api_nonsense.txt

This is first trial to merge translated documentations into the mainline.
The directory where the file is should be discussed.
---
 Documentation/ja_JP/stable_api_nonsense.txt |  263 +++
 1 files changed, 263 insertions(+), 0 deletions(-)

diff --git a/Documentation/ja_JP/stable_api_nonsense.txt 
b/Documentation/ja_JP/stable_api_nonsense.txt
new file mode 100644
index 000..0b130e8
--- /dev/null
+++ b/Documentation/ja_JP/stable_api_nonsense.txt
@@ -0,0 +1,263 @@
+NOTE:
+This is a Japanese translated version of
+Documentation/stable_api_nonsense.txt.
+This one is maintained by
+IKEDA, Munehiro [EMAIL PROTECTED]
+and JF Project team http://www.linux.or.jp/JF/.
+If you find difference with original file or problem in translation,
+please contact the maintainer of this file or JF project.
+
+Please also note that purpose of this file is easier to read for non
+English natives and not to be intended to fork. So, if you have any
+comments or updates of this file, please try to update
+Original(English) file at first.
+
+==
+ããã¯ã
+linux-2.6.22-rc4/Documentation/stable_api_nonsense.txt ã®åè¨³
+ã§ãã
+ç¿»è¨³å£ä½ï¼ JF ããã¸ã§ã¯ã  http://www.linux.or.jp/JF/ 
+ç¿»è¨³æ¥ ï¼ 2007/06/11
+åèä½è: Greg Kroah-Hartman  greg at kroah dot com 
+ç¿»è¨³è ï¼ æ± ç° å®åº  m-ikeda at ds dot jp dot nec dot com 
+æ ¡æ£è ï¼ Masanori Kobayashi ãã  zap03216 at nifty dot ne dot jp 
+  Seiji Kaneko ãã  skaneko at a2 dot mbn dot or dot jp 
+==
+
+
+
+Linux ã«ã¼ãã«ã®ãã©ã¤ãã¤ã³ã¿ã¼ãã§ã¼ã¹
+ï¼ããªãã®è³ªåãã¹ã¦ã«å¯¾ããåçã¨ãã®ä»è«¸ãï¼
+
+Greg Kroah-Hartman greg at kroah dot com
+
+
+ãã®ææ¸ã¯ããªã Linux 
ã§ã¯ãã¤ããªã«ã¼ãã«ã¤ã³ã¿ã¼ãã§ã¼ã¹ãå®ç¾©
+ããã¦ããªãã®ããã¾ãã¯ãªãä¸å¤ã®ã«ã¼ãã«ã¤ã³ã¿ã¼ãã§ã¼ã¹ãæããª
+ãã®ããã¨ãããã¨ãèª¬æããããã«æ¸ããããããã§ã®è©±é¡ã¯ãã«ã¼ã
+ã«åé¨ã®ãã¤ã³ã¿ã¼ãã§ã¼ã¹ã«ã¤ãã¦ã§ãããã¦ã¼ã¶ã¼ç©ºéã¨ã®ã¤ã³ã¿ã¼
+ãã§ã¼ã¹ã§ã¯ãªããã¨ãçè§£ãã¦ã»ãããã«ã¼ãã«ã¨ã¦ã¼ã¶ã¼ç©ºéã¨ã®ã¤
+ã³ã¿ã¼ãã§ã¼ã¹ã¨ã¯ã¢ããªã±ã¼ã·ã§ã³ããã°ã©ã ãä½¿ç¨ãããã®ã§ããã
+ã¤ã¾ãã·ã¹ãã ã³ã¼ã«ã®ã¤ã³ã¿ã¼ãã§ã¼ã¹ãããã«å½ãããããã¯ä»ã¾ã§
+é·ãã«æ¸¡ãããã¤ä»å¾ããã¾ããããä¸å¤ã§ãããç§ã¯ç¢ºã
 0.9 ãä½ã
+ããåã®ã«ã¼ãã«ãä½¿ã£ã¦ãã«ãããå¤ãããã°ã©ã ãæã£ã¦ããããã
+ãã¯ææ°ã® 2.6 
ã«ã¼ãã«ã§ããã¡ãã¨åä½ãããã¦ã¼ã¶ã¼ç©ºéã¨ã®ã¤ã³
+ã¿ã¼ãã§ã¼ã¹ã¯ãã¦ã¼ã¶ã¼ã¨ã¢ããªã±ã¼ã·ã§ã³ããã°ã©ããä¸å¤æ§ãä¿¡é ¼
+ãã¦ãããã®ã®ä¸ã¤ã§ããã
+
+
+è¦æ¨
+
+
+ããªãã¯ä¸å¤ã®ã«ã¼ãã«ã¤ã³ã¿ã¼ãã§ã¼ã¹ãå¿è¦ã ã¨èãã¦ãããããã
+ãªãããå®éã®ã¨ããã¯ããã§ã¯ãªããããªãã¯å¿è¦ã¨ãã¦ãããã®ãå
+ãã£ã¦ããªããããªããå¿è¦ã¨ãã¦ãããã®ã¯å®å®ãã¦åä½ãããã©ã¤ã
+ã§ãããããã¯ãã©ã¤ããã¡ã¤ã³ã®ã«ã¼ãã«ããªã¼ã«å«ã¾ããå ´åã®ã¿å¾
+ããã¨ãã§ããããã©ã¤ããã¡ã¤ã³ã®ã«ã¼ãã«ããªã¼ã«å«ã¾ãã¦ããã¨ã
+ä»ã«ãå¤ãã®è¯ããã¨ããããããã¯ãLinux 
ãããå¼·åºã§ãå®å®ãªãæ
+çãããªãã¬ã¼ãã£ã³ã°ã·ã¹ãã ã«ãããã¨ãã§ããã¨ãããã¨ã ããã
+ãããããããããªãã Linux ãä½¿ãçç±ã®ã¯ãã ã
+
+
+ã¯ããã«
+
+
+ã«ã¼ãã«åé¨ã®ã¤ã³ã¿ã¼ãã§ã¼ã¹å¤æ´ãå¿éããªããã°ãªããªããã©ã¤ã
+ãæ¸ããããªã©ã¨ããã®ã¯ãå¤ããèã

Re: [RFD] Documentation/HOWTO translated into Japanese

2007-06-10 Thread KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki


Hi, thank you for your work. I was impressed.

BTW, how about adding following lines (both in Japanese and English) ?
==
This is translated "HOWTO" documentation. Original "HOWTO" is maintaind by 
Greg Kroah-Hartman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> and linux kernal mailing list.
And this one is maintained by Tsugikazu Shibata <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
and JF Projet . Because original HOWTO documentation itself
is being updated day and night, this file may contain old sentences. Please 
contact
JF project if you find problems in translation.

It is guaranteed that this file is just a translation and doesn't contains any
additional information, sentences. If you want to update "HOWTO", please update
English version first. Don't fork from original if you update this file.

Last Updated: 2007/06/04  Version: 2.6.21
==

not worth writing ?

-Kame





On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 20:48:45 +0900 (JST)
Tsugikazu Shibata <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> - Below lines are Japanese Translation of "HOWTO" -
> 
> Signed-off-by: Tsugikazu Shibata <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> ---
> ==
> これは、
> linux-2.6.21/Documentation/HOWTO
> の和訳です。
> 
> 翻訳団体： JF プロジェクト < http://www.linux.or.jp/JF/ >
> 翻訳日： 2007/06/04
> 翻訳者： Tsugikazu Shibata 
> 校正者： 松倉さん 
>  小林 雅典さん (Masanori Kobayasi) 
>  武井伸光さん、
>  かねこさん (Seiji Kaneko) 
>  野口さん (Kenji Noguchi) 
>  河内さん (Takayoshi Kochi) 
>  岩本さん (iwamoto) 
> ==
> 
> Linux カーネル開発のやり方
> ---
> 
> これは上のトピック( Linux カーネル開発のやり方)の重要な事柄を網羅した
> ドキュメントです。ここには Linux カーネル開発者になるための方法と
> Linux カーネル開発コミュニティと共に活動するやり方を学ぶ方法が含まれて
> います。カーネルプログラミングに関する技術的な項目に関することは何も含
> めないようにしていますが、カーネル開発者となるための正しい方向に向かう
> 手助けになります。
> 
> もし、このドキュメントのどこかが古くなっていた場合には、このドキュメン
> トの最後にリストしたメンテナーにパッチを送ってください。
> 
> はじめに
> -
> 
> あなたは　Linux カーネルの開発者になる方法を学びたいのでしょうか？　そ
> れともあなたは上司から「このデバイスの Linux ドライバを書くように」と
> 言われているのでしょうか？　
> この文書の目的は、あなたが踏むべき手順と、コミュニティと一緒にうまく働
> くヒントを書き下すことで、あなたが知るべき全てのことを教えることです。
> また、このコミュニティがなぜ今うまくまわっているのかという理由の一部も
> 説明しようと試みています。
> 
> カーネルは 少量のアーキテクチャ依存部分がアセンブリ言語で書かれている
> 以外は大部分は C 言語で書かれています。C言語をよく理解していることはカー
> ネル開発者には必要です。アーキテクチャ向けの低レベル部分の開発をするの
> でなければ、(どんなアーキテクチャでも)アセンブリ(訳注: 言語)は必要あり
> ません。以下の本は、C 言語の十分な知識や何年もの経験に取って代わるもの
> ではありませんが、少なくともリファレンスとしてはいい本です。
>  - "The C Programming Language" by Kernighan and Ritchie [Prentice Hall]
>  -『プログラミング言語Ｃ第2版』(B.W. カーニハン/D.M. リッチー著 石田晴久訳) [共立出版]
>  - "Practical C Programming" by Steve Oualline [O'Reilly]
>  - 『C実践プログラミング第3版』(Steve Oualline著 望月康司監訳 谷口功訳) [オライリージャパン]
>  - "C:  A Reference Manual" by Harbison and Steele [Prentice Hall]
>  - 『新・詳説 C 言語 H リファレンス』
>(サミュエル P ハービソン/ガイ L スティール共著 斉藤 信男監訳)[ソフトバンク]
> 
> カーネルは GNU C と GNU ツールチェインを使って書かれています。カーネル
> は ISO C89 仕様に準拠して書く一方で、標準には無い言語拡張を多く使って
> います。カーネルは標準 C ライブラリとは関係がないといった、C 言語フリー
> スタンディング環境です。そのため、C の標準で使えないものもあります。任
> 意の long long の除算や浮動小数点は使えません。
> ときどき、カーネルがツールチェインや C 言語拡張に置いている前提がどう
> なっているのかわかりにくいことがあり、また、残念なことに決定的なリファ
> レンスは存在しません。情報を得るには、gcc の info ページ( info gcc )を
> みてください。
> 
> あなたは既存の開発コミュニティと一緒に作業する方法を学ぼうとしているこ
> とに留意してください。そのコミュニティは、コーディング、スタイル、
> 開発手順について高度な標準を持つ、多様な人の集まりです。
> 地理的に分散した大規模なチームに対してもっともうまくいくとわかったこと
> をベースにしながら、これらの標準は長い時間をかけて築かれてきました。
> これらはきちんと文書化されていますから、事前にこれらの標準についてでき
> るだけたくさん学んでください。また皆があなたやあなたの会社のやり方に合わ
> せてくれると思わないでください。
> 
> 法的問題
> 
> 
> Linux カーネルのソースコードは GPL ライセンスの下でリリースされていま
> す。ライセンスの詳細については、ソースツリーのメインディレクトリに存在
> する、COPYING のファイルをみてください。もしライセンスについてさらに質
> 問があれば、Linux Kernel メーリングリストに質問するのではなく、どうぞ
> 法律家に相談してください。メーリングリストの人達は法律家ではなく、法的
> 問題については彼らの声明はあてにするべきではありません。
> 
> GPL に関する共通の質問や回答については、以下を参照してください。
>   http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html
> 
> ドキュメント
> 
> 
> Linux カーネルソースツリーは幅広い範囲のドキュメントを含んでおり、それ
> らはカーネルコミュニティと会話する方法を学ぶのに非常に貴重なものです。
> 新しい機能がカーネルに追加される場合、その機能の使い方について説明した
> 新しいドキュメントファイルも追加することを勧めます。
> カーネルの変更が、カーネルがユーザ空間に公開しているインターフェイスの
> 変更を引き起こす場合、その変更を説明するマニュアルページのパッチや情報
> をマニュアルページのメンテナ [EMAIL PROTECTED] に送ることを勧めます。
> 
> 以下はカーネルソースツリーに含まれている読んでおくべきファイルの一覧で
> す-
> 
>   README
> このファイルは Linuxカーネルの簡単な背景とカーネルを設定(訳注
> configure )し、生成(訳注 build )するために必要なことは何かが書かれ
> ています。カーネルに関して初めての人はここからスタートするとよいで
> しょう。
> 
>   Documentation/Changes
>  このファイルはカーネルをうまく生成(訳注 build )し、走らせるのに最
>  小限のレベルで必要な数々のソフトウェアパッケージの一覧を示してい
>  ます。
> 
>   Documentation/CodingStyle
> これは Linux カーネルのコーディングスタイルと背景にある理由を記述
> しています。全ての新しいコードはこのドキュメントにあるガイドライン
> に従っていることを期待されています。大部分のメンテナーはこれらのルー
> ルに従っているものだけを受け付け、多くの人は正しいスタイルのコード
> だけをレビューします。
> 
>   Documentation/SubmittingPatches
>   Documentation/SubmittingDrivers
>  これらのファイルには、どうやってうまくパッチを作って投稿するかに
>  ついて非常に詳しく書かれており、以下を含みます(これだけに限らない
>  けれども)
> - Email に含むこと
> - Email の形式
> - だれに送るか
>  これらのルールに従えばうまくいくことを保証することではありません
>  が (すべてのパッチは内容とスタイルについて精査を受けるので)、
>  ルールに従わなければ間違いなくうまくいかないでしょう。
>  この他にパッチを作る方法についてのよくできた記述は-
> 
>   "The Perfect Patch"
>

Re: [RFD] Documentation/HOWTO translated into Japanese

2007-06-10 Thread Adrian Bunk

On Sun, Jun 10, 2007 at 06:46:17PM +0200, Jan Engelhardt wrote:
> 
> On Jun 11 2007 01:34, Tsugikazu Shibata wrote:
> >
> >We are usually using ISO-2022-JP for email exchange and if anyone
> >would comment on my document,
> 
> well I can't! Not sure if this is a flaw in pine, but all I get is
> [hexcode][hexcode][hexcode] and a bit of 7bit throughout.
> EUC-JP and UTF-8 are no problem though. *shrug*

It's correctly displayed with alpine 0.99 - you might consider upgrading?

>   Jan

cu
Adrian

-- 

   "Is there not promise of rain?" Ling Tan asked suddenly out
of the darkness. There had been need of rain for many days.
   "Only a promise," Lao Er said.
   Pearl S. Buck - Dragon Seed

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Re: [RFD] Documentation/HOWTO translated into Japanese

2007-06-10 Thread Matt Mackall

On Sun, Jun 10, 2007 at 08:48:45PM +0900, Tsugikazu Shibata wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I am posting Documentation/HOWTO which is translated into Japanese at
> bottom of this email.
> This document had been reviewed by JF project which has long history
> to translate documents into Japanese. (not only kernel but also FAQs).
> For JF, please see : http://www.linux.or.jp/JF/index.html
> Please also note that the page is written in Japanese, but you can see
> a lot of results there.
> 
> Actually, this is my first trial to post Japanese translated document
> and here are some points I decided ;
> 
> - Character encoding is ISO-2022-JP, which is normally used for email
>   using Japanese.
> - Added "Singed-off-by" line
> - Left the JF header strings which include translator/reviewer's name
> - Non-patch format, simple text
> 
> I would be happy if I could get your comments and suggestions.
> Though I know there are several issues to merge it, I want to have 
> discussions with you to accomplish it.
> 
> This email comes from strong recommendation from Greg K-H when he came
> to Tokyo two weeks ago. Thanks >Greg

This is a great idea, thanks.

What I'm not clear on is where this is intended to go?

The below isn't a patch, so if it's intended to live on a website
rather than in the kernel tarball, great. We probably want a link from
the in-kernel HOWTO to that website.

If it is intended to live in the kernel tarball, I'm not sure that's a
good idea. There are a number of languages we could consider
translating these and other documents into.

-- 
Mathematics is the supreme nostalgia of our time.
-
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Re: [RFD] Documentation/HOWTO translated into Japanese

2007-06-10 Thread Matthias Schniedermeyer


Greg KH wrote:

On Sun, Jun 10, 2007 at 02:24:51PM +0200, Jesper Juhl wrote:

 Since the common language of most kernel contributors is english I
 personally feel that we should stick to just that one language in the
 tree and then perhaps keep translations on a website somewhere. So the
 authoritative docs stay in the tree, in english, so that as many
 contributors as possible can read and update them. It would then be a
 seperate project to generate translations and keep them updated
 according to what's in the tree.  Perhaps we could get the kernel.org
 people to create an official space for that and then place a pointer
 to that site in Documentation/ somewhere.


No, I think the translated files should be in the tree proper, we have
the space :)


Frankly i don't see the difference between this and the annual reoccurring "why 
can't the kernel messages be localized" discussion.
(Which is a little overdue, but maybe this replaces it this time.)

I could see the point in ONE "HOWTO" file per language to get people started, 
but everything else is a pointless exercise.
A developer/bug-reporter has to be able to express him-/herself in English and 
understand English, otherwise you can not accomplish very much.

All the points of the localized-messages discussion:
- You have to have a common language, otherwise you can't communicate.
- The translation will per definition be out of sync
- Translations tend to introduce (translation-)errors
- ...
also apply here.

A little anecdote:
Very Long ago (last millennium i think) SuSE defaulted to a german translated 
kernel for one release of their distribution. (And optionally for a few more)
But even though i'm german i couldn't understand a single word.


And here is the FAQ-Entry about the annually reoccurring discussion:
http://www.tux.org/lkml/#s9-16





Bis denn

--
Real Programmers consider "what you see is what you get" to be just as
bad a concept in Text Editors as it is in women. No, the Real Programmer
wants a "you asked for it, you got it" text editor -- complicated,
cryptic, powerful, unforgiving, dangerous.

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Re: [RFD] Documentation/HOWTO translated into Japanese

2007-06-10 Thread Jan Engelhardt

On Jun 11 2007 01:34, Tsugikazu Shibata wrote:
>
>We are usually using ISO-2022-JP for email exchange and if anyone
>would comment on my document,

well I can't! Not sure if this is a flaw in pine, but all I get is
[hexcode][hexcode][hexcode] and a bit of 7bit throughout.
EUC-JP and UTF-8 are no problem though. *shrug*

Jan
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Re: [RFD] Documentation/HOWTO translated into Japanese

2007-06-10 Thread Tsugikazu Shibata

On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 09:22:21 -0700, gregkh wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 10, 2007 at 02:24:51PM +0200, Jesper Juhl wrote:
> >  On 10/06/07, Tsugikazu Shibata <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> > > Actually, this is my first trial to post Japanese translated document
> > > and here are some points I decided ;
> > >
> > > - Character encoding is ISO-2022-JP, which is normally used for email
> > >   using Japanese.
> > 
> >  I think there's consensus that documents in the kernel source should
> >  be either plain ASCII or UTF-8 (doesn't UTF-8 work for japanese?).
> 
> Is it hard to convert it to UTF-8?

NO, it's easy.

iconv -f ISO-2022-JP -t UTF-8 outfile

We are usually using ISO-2022-JP for email exchange and if anyone
would comment on my document, this is better I believe.
For documentation purpose, I agree with UTF-8.

Thanks,
Tsugikazu Shibata
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Re: [RFD] Documentation/HOWTO translated into Japanese

2007-06-10 Thread Greg KH

On Sun, Jun 10, 2007 at 02:24:51PM +0200, Jesper Juhl wrote:
>  On 10/06/07, Tsugikazu Shibata <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I am posting Documentation/HOWTO which is translated into Japanese at
> > bottom of this email.

Great, thanks for posting this and doing the work.

> > This document had been reviewed by JF project which has long history
> > to translate documents into Japanese. (not only kernel but also FAQs).
> > For JF, please see : http://www.linux.or.jp/JF/index.html
> > Please also note that the page is written in Japanese, but you can see
> > a lot of results there.
> >
> > Actually, this is my first trial to post Japanese translated document
> > and here are some points I decided ;
> >
> > - Character encoding is ISO-2022-JP, which is normally used for email
> >   using Japanese.
> 
>  I think there's consensus that documents in the kernel source should
>  be either plain ASCII or UTF-8 (doesn't UTF-8 work for japanese?).

Is it hard to convert it to UTF-8?

> > - Added "Singed-off-by" line
> > - Left the JF header strings which include translator/reviewer's name
> > - Non-patch format, simple text
> >
> > I would be happy if I could get your comments and suggestions.
> > Though I know there are several issues to merge it, I want to have
> > discussions with you to accomplish it.
> >
> > This email comes from strong recommendation from Greg K-H when he came
> > to Tokyo two weeks ago. Thanks >Greg
> >
> > - Below lines are Japanese Translation of "HOWTO" -
> >
> > Signed-off-by: Tsugikazu Shibata <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > ---
> 
>  Unfortunately I don't speak japanese so I can't say anything about the
>  translation at all, but I do have some other comments/questions.
> 
>  If we start adding translated versions of documentation to the kernel
>  source how should we organize the documents? Should each language get
>  a sepperate directory in Documentation/ - like Documentation/JP/,
>  Documentation/EN/, Documentation/DA/ etc?
> 
>  With multiple translated versions of the documentation in the tree,
>  don't we run the risk that the translations will quickly become
>  outdated since most people updating the documentation won't be able to
>  update the translations?

That's up to the people maintaining the translations to do.

>  Since the common language of most kernel contributors is english I
>  personally feel that we should stick to just that one language in the
>  tree and then perhaps keep translations on a website somewhere. So the
>  authoritative docs stay in the tree, in english, so that as many
>  contributors as possible can read and update them. It would then be a
>  seperate project to generate translations and keep them updated
>  according to what's in the tree.  Perhaps we could get the kernel.org
>  people to create an official space for that and then place a pointer
>  to that site in Documentation/ somewhere.

No, I think the translated files should be in the tree proper, we have
the space :)

thanks,

greg k-h
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Re: [RFD] Documentation/HOWTO translated into Japanese

2007-06-10 Thread IKEDA Munehiro


Jesper Juhl wrote:

- Character encoding is ISO-2022-JP, which is normally used for email
  using Japanese.



I think there's consensus that documents in the kernel source should
be either plain ASCII or UTF-8 (doesn't UTF-8 work for japanese?).


Oh really?
UTF-8 works even for Japanese.  Thank you and Jan for the suggestion.


If we start adding translated versions of documentation to the kernel
source how should we organize the documents? Should each language get
a sepperate directory in Documentation/ - like Documentation/JP/,
Documentation/EN/, Documentation/DA/ etc?

With multiple translated versions of the documentation in the tree,
don't we run the risk that the translations will quickly become
outdated since most people updating the documentation won't be able to
update the translations?

Since the common language of most kernel contributors is english I
personally feel that we should stick to just that one language in the
tree and then perhaps keep translations on a website somewhere. So the
authoritative docs stay in the tree, in english, so that as many
contributors as possible can read and update them. It would then be a
seperate project to generate translations and keep them updated
according to what's in the tree.  Perhaps we could get the kernel.org
people to create an official space for that and then place a pointer
to that site in Documentation/ somewhere.


Yes, that's the point.

At least for Japanese, there is a great activity "JF" as Tsugikazu 
Shibata mentioned.  It is a separate project from the tree, and it often 
happens that some documentations are outdated.  If we could merge them, 
they could be kept up-to-date IMHO.

But, on the other hand, it is fact that kernel tar ball would bloat.

Your opinion above as "creating official space in kernel.org and putting 
pointer in Documentation" seems good for me.


Hmm...

--
IKEDA, Munehiro

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Re: [RFD] Documentation/HOWTO translated into Japanese

2007-06-10 Thread Jan Engelhardt


On Jun 10 2007 14:24, Jesper Juhl wrote:
>
> If we start adding translated versions of documentation to the kernel
> source how should we organize the documents? Should each language get
> a sepperate directory in Documentation/ - like Documentation/JP/,
> Documentation/EN/, Documentation/DA/ etc?

I'd prefer the 'standardized' "ja_JP", "en_US", "de_DE", "nb_NO", etc.
as names.

> With multiple translated versions of the documentation in the tree,
> don't we run the risk that the translations will quickly become
> outdated since most people updating the documentation won't be able to
> update the translations?

What's more, the kernel tarball grows and grows :(



Jan
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Re: [RFD] Documentation/HOWTO translated into Japanese

2007-06-10 Thread Jesper Juhl


On 10/06/07, Tsugikazu Shibata <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Hi all,

I am posting Documentation/HOWTO which is translated into Japanese at
bottom of this email.


Good job. I'm sure a lot of japanese people will appreciate that.


This document had been reviewed by JF project which has long history
to translate documents into Japanese. (not only kernel but also FAQs).
For JF, please see : http://www.linux.or.jp/JF/index.html
Please also note that the page is written in Japanese, but you can see
a lot of results there.

Actually, this is my first trial to post Japanese translated document
and here are some points I decided ;

- Character encoding is ISO-2022-JP, which is normally used for email
  using Japanese.


I think there's consensus that documents in the kernel source should
be either plain ASCII or UTF-8 (doesn't UTF-8 work for japanese?).


- Added "Singed-off-by" line
- Left the JF header strings which include translator/reviewer's name
- Non-patch format, simple text

I would be happy if I could get your comments and suggestions.
Though I know there are several issues to merge it, I want to have
discussions with you to accomplish it.

This email comes from strong recommendation from Greg K-H when he came
to Tokyo two weeks ago. Thanks >Greg

- Below lines are Japanese Translation of "HOWTO" -

Signed-off-by: Tsugikazu Shibata <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
---


Unfortunately I don't speak japanese so I can't say anything about the
translation at all, but I do have some other comments/questions.

If we start adding translated versions of documentation to the kernel
source how should we organize the documents? Should each language get
a sepperate directory in Documentation/ - like Documentation/JP/,
Documentation/EN/, Documentation/DA/ etc?

With multiple translated versions of the documentation in the tree,
don't we run the risk that the translations will quickly become
outdated since most people updating the documentation won't be able to
update the translations?

Since the common language of most kernel contributors is english I
personally feel that we should stick to just that one language in the
tree and then perhaps keep translations on a website somewhere. So the
authoritative docs stay in the tree, in english, so that as many
contributors as possible can read and update them. It would then be a
seperate project to generate translations and keep them updated
according to what's in the tree.  Perhaps we could get the kernel.org
people to create an official space for that and then place a pointer
to that site in Documentation/ somewhere.


--
Jesper Juhl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Don't top-post  http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/T/top-post.html
Plain text mails only, please  http://www.expita.com/nomime.html
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[RFD] Documentation/HOWTO translated into Japanese

2007-06-10 Thread Tsugikazu Shibata

Hi all,

I am posting Documentation/HOWTO which is translated into Japanese at
bottom of this email.
This document had been reviewed by JF project which has long history
to translate documents into Japanese. (not only kernel but also FAQs).
For JF, please see : http://www.linux.or.jp/JF/index.html
Please also note that the page is written in Japanese, but you can see
a lot of results there.

Actually, this is my first trial to post Japanese translated document
and here are some points I decided ;

- Character encoding is ISO-2022-JP, which is normally used for email
  using Japanese.
- Added "Singed-off-by" line
- Left the JF header strings which include translator/reviewer's name
- Non-patch format, simple text

I would be happy if I could get your comments and suggestions.
Though I know there are several issues to merge it, I want to have 
discussions with you to accomplish it.

This email comes from strong recommendation from Greg K-H when he came
to Tokyo two weeks ago. Thanks >Greg

- Below lines are Japanese Translation of "HOWTO" -

Signed-off-by: Tsugikazu Shibata <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
---
==
これは、
linux-2.6.21/Documentation/HOWTO
の和訳です。

翻訳団体： JF プロジェクト < http://www.linux.or.jp/JF/ >
翻訳日： 2007/06/04
翻訳者： Tsugikazu Shibata 
校正者： 松倉さん 
 小林 雅典さん (Masanori Kobayasi) 
 武井伸光さん、
 かねこさん (Seiji Kaneko) 
 野口さん (Kenji Noguchi) 
 河内さん (Takayoshi Kochi) 
 岩本さん (iwamoto) 
==

Linux カーネル開発のやり方
---

これは上のトピック( Linux カーネル開発のやり方)の重要な事柄を網羅した
ドキュメントです。ここには Linux カーネル開発者になるための方法と
Linux カーネル開発コミュニティと共に活動するやり方を学ぶ方法が含まれて
います。カーネルプログラミングに関する技術的な項目に関することは何も含
めないようにしていますが、カーネル開発者となるための正しい方向に向かう
手助けになります。

もし、このドキュメントのどこかが古くなっていた場合には、このドキュメン
トの最後にリストしたメンテナーにパッチを送ってください。

はじめに
-

あなたは　Linux カーネルの開発者になる方法を学びたいのでしょうか？　そ
れともあなたは上司から「このデバイスの Linux ドライバを書くように」と
言われているのでしょうか？　
この文書の目的は、あなたが踏むべき手順と、コミュニティと一緒にうまく働
くヒントを書き下すことで、あなたが知るべき全てのことを教えることです。
また、このコミュニティがなぜ今うまくまわっているのかという理由の一部も
説明しようと試みています。

カーネルは 少量のアーキテクチャ依存部分がアセンブリ言語で書かれている
以外は大部分は C 言語で書かれています。C言語をよく理解していることはカー
ネル開発者には必要です。アーキテクチャ向けの低レベル部分の開発をするの
でなければ、(どんなアーキテクチャでも)アセンブリ(訳注: 言語)は必要あり
ません。以下の本は、C 言語の十分な知識や何年もの経験に取って代わるもの
ではありませんが、少なくともリファレンスとしてはいい本です。
 - "The C Programming Language" by Kernighan and Ritchie [Prentice Hall]
 -『プログラミング言語Ｃ第2版』(B.W. カーニハン/D.M. リッチー著 石田晴久訳) [共立出版]
 - "Practical C Programming" by Steve Oualline [O'Reilly]
 - 『C実践プログラミング第3版』(Steve Oualline著 望月康司監訳 谷口功訳) [オライリージャパン]
 - "C:  A Reference Manual" by Harbison and Steele [Prentice Hall]
 - 『新・詳説 C 言語 H リファレンス』
   (サミュエル P ハービソン/ガイ L スティール共著 斉藤 信男監訳)[ソフトバンク]

カーネルは GNU C と GNU ツールチェインを使って書かれています。カーネル
は ISO C89 仕様に準拠して書く一方で、標準には無い言語拡張を多く使って
います。カーネルは標準 C ライブラリとは関係がないといった、C 言語フリー
スタンディング環境です。そのため、C の標準で使えないものもあります。任
意の long long の除算や浮動小数点は使えません。
ときどき、カーネルがツールチェインや C 言語拡張に置いている前提がどう
なっているのかわかりにくいことがあり、また、残念なことに決定的なリファ
レンスは存在しません。情報を得るには、gcc の info ページ( info gcc )を
みてください。

あなたは既存の開発コミュニティと一緒に作業する方法を学ぼうとしているこ
とに留意してください。そのコミュニティは、コーディング、スタイル、
開発手順について高度な標準を持つ、多様な人の集まりです。
地理的に分散した大規模なチームに対してもっともうまくいくとわかったこと
をベースにしながら、これらの標準は長い時間をかけて築かれてきました。
これらはきちんと文書化されていますから、事前にこれらの標準についてでき
るだけたくさん学んでください。また皆があなたやあなたの会社のやり方に合わ
せてくれると思わないでください。

法的問題


Linux カーネルのソースコードは GPL ライセンスの下でリリースされていま
す。ライセンスの詳細については、ソースツリーのメインディレクトリに存在
する、COPYING のファイルをみてください。もしライセンスについてさらに質
問があれば、Linux Kernel メーリングリストに質問するのではなく、どうぞ
法律家に相談してください。メーリングリストの人達は法律家ではなく、法的
問題については彼らの声明はあてにするべきではありません。

GPL に関する共通の質問や回答については、以下を参照してください。
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html

ドキュメント


Linux カーネルソースツリーは幅広い範囲のドキュメントを含んでおり、それ
らはカーネルコミュニティと会話する方法を学ぶのに非常に貴重なものです。
新しい機能がカーネルに追加される場合、その機能の使い方について説明した
新しいドキュメントファイルも追加することを勧めます。
カーネルの変更が、カーネルがユーザ空間に公開しているインターフェイスの
変更を引き起こす場合、その変更を説明するマニュアルページのパッチや情報
をマニュアルページのメンテナ [EMAIL PROTECTED] に送ることを勧めます。

以下はカーネルソースツリーに含まれている読んでおくべきファイルの一覧で
す-

  README
このファイルは Linuxカーネルの簡単な背景とカーネルを設定(訳注
configure )し、生成(訳注 build )するために必要なことは何かが書かれ
ています。カーネルに関して初めての人はここからスタートするとよいで
しょう。

  Documentation/Changes
 このファイルはカーネルをうまく生成(訳注 build )し、走らせるのに最
 小限のレベルで必要な数々のソフトウェアパッケージの一覧を示してい
 ます。

  Documentation/CodingStyle
これは Linux カーネルのコーディングスタイルと背景にある理由を記述
しています。全ての新しいコードはこのドキュメントにあるガイドライン
に従っていることを期待されています。大部分のメンテナーはこれらのルー
ルに従っているものだけを受け付け、多くの人は正しいスタイルのコード
だけをレビューします。

  Documentation/SubmittingPatches
  Documentation/SubmittingDrivers
 これらのファイルには、どうやってうまくパッチを作って投稿するかに
 ついて非常に詳しく書かれており、以下を含みます(これだけに限らない
 けれども)
- Email に含むこと
- Email の形式
- だれに送るか
 これらのルールに従えばうまくいくことを保証することではありません
 が (すべてのパッチは内容とスタイルについて精査を受けるので)、
 ルールに従わなければ間違いなくうまくいかないでしょう。
 この他にパッチを作る方法についてのよくできた記述は-

"The Perfect Patch"
http://www.zip.com.au/~akpm/linux/patches/stuff/tpp.txt
"Linux kernel patch submission format"
http://linux.yyz.us/patch-format.html

  Documentation/stable_api_nonsense.txt
 このファイルはカーネルの中に不変のAPIを持たないことにした意識的な

[RFD] Documentation/HOWTO translated into Japanese

2007-06-10 Thread Tsugikazu Shibata

Hi all,

I am posting Documentation/HOWTO which is translated into Japanese at
bottom of this email.
This document had been reviewed by JF project which has long history
to translate documents into Japanese. (not only kernel but also FAQs).
For JF, please see : http://www.linux.or.jp/JF/index.html
Please also note that the page is written in Japanese, but you can see
a lot of results there.

Actually, this is my first trial to post Japanese translated document
and here are some points I decided ;

- Character encoding is ISO-2022-JP, which is normally used for email
  using Japanese.
- Added Singed-off-by line
- Left the JF header strings which include translator/reviewer's name
- Non-patch format, simple text

I would be happy if I could get your comments and suggestions.
Though I know there are several issues to merge it, I want to have 
discussions with you to accomplish it.

This email comes from strong recommendation from Greg K-H when he came
to Tokyo two weeks ago. Thanks Greg

- Below lines are Japanese Translation of HOWTO -

Signed-off-by: Tsugikazu Shibata [EMAIL PROTECTED]
---
==
これは、
linux-2.6.21/Documentation/HOWTO
の和訳です。

翻訳団体： JF プロジェクト  http://www.linux.or.jp/JF/ 
翻訳日： 2007/06/04
翻訳者： Tsugikazu Shibata tshibata at ab dot jp dot nec dot com
校正者： 松倉さん nbh--mats at nifty dot com
 小林 雅典さん (Masanori Kobayasi) zap03216 at nifty dot ne dot jp
 武井伸光さん、takei at webmasters dot gr dot jp
 かねこさん (Seiji Kaneko) skaneko at a2 dot mbn dot or dot jp
 野口さん (Kenji Noguchi) tokyo246 at gmail dot com
 河内さん (Takayoshi Kochi) t-kochi at bq dot jp dot nec dot com
 岩本さん (iwamoto) iwamoto.kn at ncos dot nec dot co dot jp
==

Linux カーネル開発のやり方
---

これは上のトピック( Linux カーネル開発のやり方)の重要な事柄を網羅した
ドキュメントです。ここには Linux カーネル開発者になるための方法と
Linux カーネル開発コミュニティと共に活動するやり方を学ぶ方法が含まれて
います。カーネルプログラミングに関する技術的な項目に関することは何も含
めないようにしていますが、カーネル開発者となるための正しい方向に向かう
手助けになります。

もし、このドキュメントのどこかが古くなっていた場合には、このドキュメン
トの最後にリストしたメンテナーにパッチを送ってください。

はじめに
-

あなたは　Linux カーネルの開発者になる方法を学びたいのでしょうか？　そ
れともあなたは上司から「このデバイスの Linux ドライバを書くように」と
言われているのでしょうか？　
この文書の目的は、あなたが踏むべき手順と、コミュニティと一緒にうまく働
くヒントを書き下すことで、あなたが知るべき全てのことを教えることです。
また、このコミュニティがなぜ今うまくまわっているのかという理由の一部も
説明しようと試みています。

カーネルは 少量のアーキテクチャ依存部分がアセンブリ言語で書かれている
以外は大部分は C 言語で書かれています。C言語をよく理解していることはカー
ネル開発者には必要です。アーキテクチャ向けの低レベル部分の開発をするの
でなければ、(どんなアーキテクチャでも)アセンブリ(訳注: 言語)は必要あり
ません。以下の本は、C 言語の十分な知識や何年もの経験に取って代わるもの
ではありませんが、少なくともリファレンスとしてはいい本です。
 - The C Programming Language by Kernighan and Ritchie [Prentice Hall]
 -『プログラミング言語Ｃ第2版』(B.W. カーニハン/D.M. リッチー著 石田晴久訳) [共立出版]
 - Practical C Programming by Steve Oualline [O'Reilly]
 - 『C実践プログラミング第3版』(Steve Oualline著 望月康司監訳 谷口功訳) [オライリージャパン]
 - C:  A Reference Manual by Harbison and Steele [Prentice Hall]
 - 『新・詳説 C 言語 HS リファレンス』
   (サミュエル P ハービソン/ガイ L スティール共著 斉藤 信男監訳)[ソフトバンク]

カーネルは GNU C と GNU ツールチェインを使って書かれています。カーネル
は ISO C89 仕様に準拠して書く一方で、標準には無い言語拡張を多く使って
います。カーネルは標準 C ライブラリとは関係がないといった、C 言語フリー
スタンディング環境です。そのため、C の標準で使えないものもあります。任
意の long long の除算や浮動小数点は使えません。
ときどき、カーネルがツールチェインや C 言語拡張に置いている前提がどう
なっているのかわかりにくいことがあり、また、残念なことに決定的なリファ
レンスは存在しません。情報を得るには、gcc の info ページ( info gcc )を
みてください。

あなたは既存の開発コミュニティと一緒に作業する方法を学ぼうとしているこ
とに留意してください。そのコミュニティは、コーディング、スタイル、
開発手順について高度な標準を持つ、多様な人の集まりです。
地理的に分散した大規模なチームに対してもっともうまくいくとわかったこと
をベースにしながら、これらの標準は長い時間をかけて築かれてきました。
これらはきちんと文書化されていますから、事前にこれらの標準についてでき
るだけたくさん学んでください。また皆があなたやあなたの会社のやり方に合わ
せてくれると思わないでください。

法的問題


Linux カーネルのソースコードは GPL ライセンスの下でリリースされていま
す。ライセンスの詳細については、ソースツリーのメインディレクトリに存在
する、COPYING のファイルをみてください。もしライセンスについてさらに質
問があれば、Linux Kernel メーリングリストに質問するのではなく、どうぞ
法律家に相談してください。メーリングリストの人達は法律家ではなく、法的
問題については彼らの声明はあてにするべきではありません。

GPL に関する共通の質問や回答については、以下を参照してください。
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html

ドキュメント


Linux カーネルソースツリーは幅広い範囲のドキュメントを含んでおり、それ
らはカーネルコミュニティと会話する方法を学ぶのに非常に貴重なものです。
新しい機能がカーネルに追加される場合、その機能の使い方について説明した
新しいドキュメントファイルも追加することを勧めます。
カーネルの変更が、カーネルがユーザ空間に公開しているインターフェイスの
変更を引き起こす場合、その変更を説明するマニュアルページのパッチや情報
をマニュアルページのメンテナ [EMAIL PROTECTED] に送ることを勧めます。

以下はカーネルソースツリーに含まれている読んでおくべきファイルの一覧で
す-

  README
このファイルは Linuxカーネルの簡単な背景とカーネルを設定(訳注
configure )し、生成(訳注 build )するために必要なことは何かが書かれ
ています。カーネルに関して初めての人はここからスタートするとよいで
しょう。

  Documentation/Changes
 このファイルはカーネルをうまく生成(訳注 build )し、走らせるのに最
 小限のレベルで必要な数々のソフトウェアパッケージの一覧を示してい
 ます。

  Documentation/CodingStyle
これは Linux カーネルのコーディングスタイルと背景にある理由を記述
しています。全ての新しいコードはこのドキュメントにあるガイドライン
に従っていることを期待されています。大部分のメンテナーはこれらのルー
ルに従っているものだけを受け付け、多くの人は正しいスタイルのコード
だけをレビューします。

  Documentation/SubmittingPatches
  Documentation/SubmittingDrivers
 これらのファイルには、どうやってうまくパッチを作って投稿するかに
 ついて非常に詳しく書かれており、以下を含みます(これだけに限らない
 けれども)
- Email に含むこと
- Email の形式
- だれに送るか
 これらのルールに従えばうまくいくことを保証することではありません
 が (すべてのパッチは内容とスタイルについて精査を受けるので)、
 ルールに従わなければ間違いなくうまくいかないでしょう。
 この他にパッチを作る方法についてのよくできた記述は-

The Perfect Patch

Re: [RFD] Documentation/HOWTO translated into Japanese

2007-06-10 Thread Jesper Juhl


On 10/06/07, Tsugikazu Shibata [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Hi all,

I am posting Documentation/HOWTO which is translated into Japanese at
bottom of this email.


Good job. I'm sure a lot of japanese people will appreciate that.


This document had been reviewed by JF project which has long history
to translate documents into Japanese. (not only kernel but also FAQs).
For JF, please see : http://www.linux.or.jp/JF/index.html
Please also note that the page is written in Japanese, but you can see
a lot of results there.

Actually, this is my first trial to post Japanese translated document
and here are some points I decided ;

- Character encoding is ISO-2022-JP, which is normally used for email
  using Japanese.


I think there's consensus that documents in the kernel source should
be either plain ASCII or UTF-8 (doesn't UTF-8 work for japanese?).


- Added Singed-off-by line
- Left the JF header strings which include translator/reviewer's name
- Non-patch format, simple text

I would be happy if I could get your comments and suggestions.
Though I know there are several issues to merge it, I want to have
discussions with you to accomplish it.

This email comes from strong recommendation from Greg K-H when he came
to Tokyo two weeks ago. Thanks Greg

- Below lines are Japanese Translation of HOWTO -

Signed-off-by: Tsugikazu Shibata [EMAIL PROTECTED]
---


Unfortunately I don't speak japanese so I can't say anything about the
translation at all, but I do have some other comments/questions.

If we start adding translated versions of documentation to the kernel
source how should we organize the documents? Should each language get
a sepperate directory in Documentation/ - like Documentation/JP/,
Documentation/EN/, Documentation/DA/ etc?

With multiple translated versions of the documentation in the tree,
don't we run the risk that the translations will quickly become
outdated since most people updating the documentation won't be able to
update the translations?

Since the common language of most kernel contributors is english I
personally feel that we should stick to just that one language in the
tree and then perhaps keep translations on a website somewhere. So the
authoritative docs stay in the tree, in english, so that as many
contributors as possible can read and update them. It would then be a
seperate project to generate translations and keep them updated
according to what's in the tree.  Perhaps we could get the kernel.org
people to create an official space for that and then place a pointer
to that site in Documentation/ somewhere.


--
Jesper Juhl [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Don't top-post  http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/T/top-post.html
Plain text mails only, please  http://www.expita.com/nomime.html
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Re: [RFD] Documentation/HOWTO translated into Japanese

2007-06-10 Thread Jan Engelhardt


On Jun 10 2007 14:24, Jesper Juhl wrote:

 If we start adding translated versions of documentation to the kernel
 source how should we organize the documents? Should each language get
 a sepperate directory in Documentation/ - like Documentation/JP/,
 Documentation/EN/, Documentation/DA/ etc?

I'd prefer the 'standardized' ja_JP, en_US, de_DE, nb_NO, etc.
as names.

 With multiple translated versions of the documentation in the tree,
 don't we run the risk that the translations will quickly become
 outdated since most people updating the documentation won't be able to
 update the translations?

What's more, the kernel tarball grows and grows :(



Jan
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Re: [RFD] Documentation/HOWTO translated into Japanese

2007-06-10 Thread IKEDA Munehiro


Jesper Juhl wrote:

- Character encoding is ISO-2022-JP, which is normally used for email
  using Japanese.



I think there's consensus that documents in the kernel source should
be either plain ASCII or UTF-8 (doesn't UTF-8 work for japanese?).


Oh really?
UTF-8 works even for Japanese.  Thank you and Jan for the suggestion.


If we start adding translated versions of documentation to the kernel
source how should we organize the documents? Should each language get
a sepperate directory in Documentation/ - like Documentation/JP/,
Documentation/EN/, Documentation/DA/ etc?

With multiple translated versions of the documentation in the tree,
don't we run the risk that the translations will quickly become
outdated since most people updating the documentation won't be able to
update the translations?

Since the common language of most kernel contributors is english I
personally feel that we should stick to just that one language in the
tree and then perhaps keep translations on a website somewhere. So the
authoritative docs stay in the tree, in english, so that as many
contributors as possible can read and update them. It would then be a
seperate project to generate translations and keep them updated
according to what's in the tree.  Perhaps we could get the kernel.org
people to create an official space for that and then place a pointer
to that site in Documentation/ somewhere.


Yes, that's the point.

At least for Japanese, there is a great activity JF as Tsugikazu 
Shibata mentioned.  It is a separate project from the tree, and it often 
happens that some documentations are outdated.  If we could merge them, 
they could be kept up-to-date IMHO.

But, on the other hand, it is fact that kernel tar ball would bloat.

Your opinion above as creating official space in kernel.org and putting 
pointer in Documentation seems good for me.


Hmm...

--
IKEDA, Munehiro

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Re: [RFD] Documentation/HOWTO translated into Japanese

2007-06-10 Thread Greg KH

On Sun, Jun 10, 2007 at 02:24:51PM +0200, Jesper Juhl wrote:
  On 10/06/07, Tsugikazu Shibata [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Hi all,
 
  I am posting Documentation/HOWTO which is translated into Japanese at
  bottom of this email.

Great, thanks for posting this and doing the work.

  This document had been reviewed by JF project which has long history
  to translate documents into Japanese. (not only kernel but also FAQs).
  For JF, please see : http://www.linux.or.jp/JF/index.html
  Please also note that the page is written in Japanese, but you can see
  a lot of results there.
 
  Actually, this is my first trial to post Japanese translated document
  and here are some points I decided ;
 
  - Character encoding is ISO-2022-JP, which is normally used for email
using Japanese.
 
  I think there's consensus that documents in the kernel source should
  be either plain ASCII or UTF-8 (doesn't UTF-8 work for japanese?).

Is it hard to convert it to UTF-8?

  - Added Singed-off-by line
  - Left the JF header strings which include translator/reviewer's name
  - Non-patch format, simple text
 
  I would be happy if I could get your comments and suggestions.
  Though I know there are several issues to merge it, I want to have
  discussions with you to accomplish it.
 
  This email comes from strong recommendation from Greg K-H when he came
  to Tokyo two weeks ago. Thanks Greg
 
  - Below lines are Japanese Translation of HOWTO -
 
  Signed-off-by: Tsugikazu Shibata [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  ---
 
  Unfortunately I don't speak japanese so I can't say anything about the
  translation at all, but I do have some other comments/questions.
 
  If we start adding translated versions of documentation to the kernel
  source how should we organize the documents? Should each language get
  a sepperate directory in Documentation/ - like Documentation/JP/,
  Documentation/EN/, Documentation/DA/ etc?
 
  With multiple translated versions of the documentation in the tree,
  don't we run the risk that the translations will quickly become
  outdated since most people updating the documentation won't be able to
  update the translations?

That's up to the people maintaining the translations to do.

  Since the common language of most kernel contributors is english I
  personally feel that we should stick to just that one language in the
  tree and then perhaps keep translations on a website somewhere. So the
  authoritative docs stay in the tree, in english, so that as many
  contributors as possible can read and update them. It would then be a
  seperate project to generate translations and keep them updated
  according to what's in the tree.  Perhaps we could get the kernel.org
  people to create an official space for that and then place a pointer
  to that site in Documentation/ somewhere.

No, I think the translated files should be in the tree proper, we have
the space :)

thanks,

greg k-h
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Re: [RFD] Documentation/HOWTO translated into Japanese

2007-06-10 Thread Tsugikazu Shibata

On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 09:22:21 -0700, gregkh wrote:
 On Sun, Jun 10, 2007 at 02:24:51PM +0200, Jesper Juhl wrote:
   On 10/06/07, Tsugikazu Shibata [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

   Actually, this is my first trial to post Japanese translated document
   and here are some points I decided ;
  
   - Character encoding is ISO-2022-JP, which is normally used for email
 using Japanese.
  
   I think there's consensus that documents in the kernel source should
   be either plain ASCII or UTF-8 (doesn't UTF-8 work for japanese?).
 
 Is it hard to convert it to UTF-8?

NO, it's easy.

iconv -f ISO-2022-JP -t UTF-8 infile outfile

We are usually using ISO-2022-JP for email exchange and if anyone
would comment on my document, this is better I believe.
For documentation purpose, I agree with UTF-8.

Thanks,
Tsugikazu Shibata
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Re: [RFD] Documentation/HOWTO translated into Japanese

2007-06-10 Thread Jan Engelhardt


On Jun 11 2007 01:34, Tsugikazu Shibata wrote:

We are usually using ISO-2022-JP for email exchange and if anyone
would comment on my document,

well I can't! Not sure if this is a flaw in pine, but all I get is
[hexcode][hexcode][hexcode] and a bit of 7bit throughout.
EUC-JP and UTF-8 are no problem though. *shrug*



Jan
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Re: [RFD] Documentation/HOWTO translated into Japanese

2007-06-10 Thread Matthias Schniedermeyer


Greg KH wrote:

On Sun, Jun 10, 2007 at 02:24:51PM +0200, Jesper Juhl wrote:

 Since the common language of most kernel contributors is english I
 personally feel that we should stick to just that one language in the
 tree and then perhaps keep translations on a website somewhere. So the
 authoritative docs stay in the tree, in english, so that as many
 contributors as possible can read and update them. It would then be a
 seperate project to generate translations and keep them updated
 according to what's in the tree.  Perhaps we could get the kernel.org
 people to create an official space for that and then place a pointer
 to that site in Documentation/ somewhere.


No, I think the translated files should be in the tree proper, we have
the space :)


Frankly i don't see the difference between this and the annual reoccurring why 
can't the kernel messages be localized discussion.
(Which is a little overdue, but maybe this replaces it this time.)

I could see the point in ONE HOWTO file per language to get people started, 
but everything else is a pointless exercise.
A developer/bug-reporter has to be able to express him-/herself in English and 
understand English, otherwise you can not accomplish very much.

All the points of the localized-messages discussion:
- You have to have a common language, otherwise you can't communicate.
- The translation will per definition be out of sync
- Translations tend to introduce (translation-)errors
- ...
also apply here.

A little anecdote:
Very Long ago (last millennium i think) SuSE defaulted to a german translated 
kernel for one release of their distribution. (And optionally for a few more)
But even though i'm german i couldn't understand a single word.


And here is the FAQ-Entry about the annually reoccurring discussion:
http://www.tux.org/lkml/#s9-16





Bis denn

--
Real Programmers consider what you see is what you get to be just as
bad a concept in Text Editors as it is in women. No, the Real Programmer
wants a you asked for it, you got it text editor -- complicated,
cryptic, powerful, unforgiving, dangerous.

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Re: [RFD] Documentation/HOWTO translated into Japanese

2007-06-10 Thread Matt Mackall

On Sun, Jun 10, 2007 at 08:48:45PM +0900, Tsugikazu Shibata wrote:
 Hi all,
 
 I am posting Documentation/HOWTO which is translated into Japanese at
 bottom of this email.
 This document had been reviewed by JF project which has long history
 to translate documents into Japanese. (not only kernel but also FAQs).
 For JF, please see : http://www.linux.or.jp/JF/index.html
 Please also note that the page is written in Japanese, but you can see
 a lot of results there.
 
 Actually, this is my first trial to post Japanese translated document
 and here are some points I decided ;
 
 - Character encoding is ISO-2022-JP, which is normally used for email
   using Japanese.
 - Added Singed-off-by line
 - Left the JF header strings which include translator/reviewer's name
 - Non-patch format, simple text
 
 I would be happy if I could get your comments and suggestions.
 Though I know there are several issues to merge it, I want to have 
 discussions with you to accomplish it.
 
 This email comes from strong recommendation from Greg K-H when he came
 to Tokyo two weeks ago. Thanks Greg

This is a great idea, thanks.

What I'm not clear on is where this is intended to go?

The below isn't a patch, so if it's intended to live on a website
rather than in the kernel tarball, great. We probably want a link from
the in-kernel HOWTO to that website.

If it is intended to live in the kernel tarball, I'm not sure that's a
good idea. There are a number of languages we could consider
translating these and other documents into.

-- 
Mathematics is the supreme nostalgia of our time.
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Re: [RFD] Documentation/HOWTO translated into Japanese

2007-06-10 Thread Adrian Bunk

On Sun, Jun 10, 2007 at 06:46:17PM +0200, Jan Engelhardt wrote:
 
 On Jun 11 2007 01:34, Tsugikazu Shibata wrote:
 
 We are usually using ISO-2022-JP for email exchange and if anyone
 would comment on my document,
 
 well I can't! Not sure if this is a flaw in pine, but all I get is
 [hexcode][hexcode][hexcode] and a bit of 7bit throughout.
 EUC-JP and UTF-8 are no problem though. *shrug*

It's correctly displayed with alpine 0.99 - you might consider upgrading?

   Jan

cu
Adrian

-- 

   Is there not promise of rain? Ling Tan asked suddenly out
of the darkness. There had been need of rain for many days.
   Only a promise, Lao Er said.
   Pearl S. Buck - Dragon Seed

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Re: [RFD] Documentation/HOWTO translated into Japanese

2007-06-10 Thread KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki


Hi, thank you for your work. I was impressed.

BTW, how about adding following lines (both in Japanese and English) ?
==
This is translated HOWTO documentation. Original HOWTO is maintaind by 
Greg Kroah-Hartman [EMAIL PROTECTED] and linux kernal mailing list.
And this one is maintained by Tsugikazu Shibata [EMAIL PROTECTED]
and JF Projet www.linux.or.jp/JF. Because original HOWTO documentation itself
is being updated day and night, this file may contain old sentences. Please 
contact
JF project if you find problems in translation.

It is guaranteed that this file is just a translation and doesn't contains any
additional information, sentences. If you want to update HOWTO, please update
English version first. Don't fork from original if you update this file.

Last Updated: 2007/06/04  Version: 2.6.21
==

not worth writing ?

-Kame





On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 20:48:45 +0900 (JST)
Tsugikazu Shibata [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 - Below lines are Japanese Translation of HOWTO -
 
 Signed-off-by: Tsugikazu Shibata [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ---
 ==
 これは、
 linux-2.6.21/Documentation/HOWTO
 の和訳です。
 
 翻訳団体： JF プロジェクト  http://www.linux.or.jp/JF/ 
 翻訳日： 2007/06/04
 翻訳者： Tsugikazu Shibata tshibata at ab dot jp dot nec dot com
 校正者： 松倉さん nbh--mats at nifty dot com
  小林 雅典さん (Masanori Kobayasi) zap03216 at nifty dot ne dot jp
  武井伸光さん、takei at webmasters dot gr dot jp
  かねこさん (Seiji Kaneko) skaneko at a2 dot mbn dot or dot jp
  野口さん (Kenji Noguchi) tokyo246 at gmail dot com
  河内さん (Takayoshi Kochi) t-kochi at bq dot jp dot nec dot com
  岩本さん (iwamoto) iwamoto.kn at ncos dot nec dot co dot jp
 ==
 
 Linux カーネル開発のやり方
 ---
 
 これは上のトピック( Linux カーネル開発のやり方)の重要な事柄を網羅した
 ドキュメントです。ここには Linux カーネル開発者になるための方法と
 Linux カーネル開発コミュニティと共に活動するやり方を学ぶ方法が含まれて
 います。カーネルプログラミングに関する技術的な項目に関することは何も含
 めないようにしていますが、カーネル開発者となるための正しい方向に向かう
 手助けになります。
 
 もし、このドキュメントのどこかが古くなっていた場合には、このドキュメン
 トの最後にリストしたメンテナーにパッチを送ってください。
 
 はじめに
 -
 
 あなたは　Linux カーネルの開発者になる方法を学びたいのでしょうか？　そ
 れともあなたは上司から「このデバイスの Linux ドライバを書くように」と
 言われているのでしょうか？　
 この文書の目的は、あなたが踏むべき手順と、コミュニティと一緒にうまく働
 くヒントを書き下すことで、あなたが知るべき全てのことを教えることです。
 また、このコミュニティがなぜ今うまくまわっているのかという理由の一部も
 説明しようと試みています。
 
 カーネルは 少量のアーキテクチャ依存部分がアセンブリ言語で書かれている
 以外は大部分は C 言語で書かれています。C言語をよく理解していることはカー
 ネル開発者には必要です。アーキテクチャ向けの低レベル部分の開発をするの
 でなければ、(どんなアーキテクチャでも)アセンブリ(訳注: 言語)は必要あり
 ません。以下の本は、C 言語の十分な知識や何年もの経験に取って代わるもの
 ではありませんが、少なくともリファレンスとしてはいい本です。
  - The C Programming Language by Kernighan and Ritchie [Prentice Hall]
  -『プログラミング言語Ｃ第2版』(B.W. カーニハン/D.M. リッチー著 石田晴久訳) [共立出版]
  - Practical C Programming by Steve Oualline [O'Reilly]
  - 『C実践プログラミング第3版』(Steve Oualline著 望月康司監訳 谷口功訳) [オライリージャパン]
  - C:  A Reference Manual by Harbison and Steele [Prentice Hall]
  - 『新・詳説 C 言語 HS リファレンス』
(サミュエル P ハービソン/ガイ L スティール共著 斉藤 信男監訳)[ソフトバンク]
 
 カーネルは GNU C と GNU ツールチェインを使って書かれています。カーネル
 は ISO C89 仕様に準拠して書く一方で、標準には無い言語拡張を多く使って
 います。カーネルは標準 C ライブラリとは関係がないといった、C 言語フリー
 スタンディング環境です。そのため、C の標準で使えないものもあります。任
 意の long long の除算や浮動小数点は使えません。
 ときどき、カーネルがツールチェインや C 言語拡張に置いている前提がどう
 なっているのかわかりにくいことがあり、また、残念なことに決定的なリファ
 レンスは存在しません。情報を得るには、gcc の info ページ( info gcc )を
 みてください。
 
 あなたは既存の開発コミュニティと一緒に作業する方法を学ぼうとしているこ
 とに留意してください。そのコミュニティは、コーディング、スタイル、
 開発手順について高度な標準を持つ、多様な人の集まりです。
 地理的に分散した大規模なチームに対してもっともうまくいくとわかったこと
 をベースにしながら、これらの標準は長い時間をかけて築かれてきました。
 これらはきちんと文書化されていますから、事前にこれらの標準についてでき
 るだけたくさん学んでください。また皆があなたやあなたの会社のやり方に合わ
 せてくれると思わないでください。
 
 法的問題
 
 
 Linux カーネルのソースコードは GPL ライセンスの下でリリースされていま
 す。ライセンスの詳細については、ソースツリーのメインディレクトリに存在
 する、COPYING のファイルをみてください。もしライセンスについてさらに質
 問があれば、Linux Kernel メーリングリストに質問するのではなく、どうぞ
 法律家に相談してください。メーリングリストの人達は法律家ではなく、法的
 問題については彼らの声明はあてにするべきではありません。
 
 GPL に関する共通の質問や回答については、以下を参照してください。
   http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html
 
 ドキュメント
 
 
 Linux カーネルソースツリーは幅広い範囲のドキュメントを含んでおり、それ
 らはカーネルコミュニティと会話する方法を学ぶのに非常に貴重なものです。
 新しい機能がカーネルに追加される場合、その機能の使い方について説明した
 新しいドキュメントファイルも追加することを勧めます。
 カーネルの変更が、カーネルがユーザ空間に公開しているインターフェイスの
 変更を引き起こす場合、その変更を説明するマニュアルページのパッチや情報
 をマニュアルページのメンテナ [EMAIL PROTECTED] に送ることを勧めます。
 
 以下はカーネルソースツリーに含まれている読んでおくべきファイルの一覧で
 す-
 
   README
 このファイルは Linuxカーネルの簡単な背景とカーネルを設定(訳注
 configure )し、生成(訳注 build )するために必要なことは何かが書かれ
 ています。カーネルに関して初めての人はここからスタートするとよいで
 しょう。
 
   Documentation/Changes
  このファイルはカーネルをうまく生成(訳注 build )し、走らせるのに最
  小限のレベルで必要な数々のソフトウェアパッケージの一覧を示してい
  ます。
 
   Documentation/CodingStyle
 これは Linux カーネルのコーディングスタイルと背景にある理由を記述
 しています。全ての新しいコードはこのドキュメントにあるガイドライン
 に従っていることを期待されています。大部分のメンテナーはこれらのルー
 ルに従っているものだけを受け付け、多くの人は正しいスタイルのコード
 だけをレビューします。
 
   Documentation/SubmittingPatches
   Documentation/SubmittingDrivers
  これらのファイルには、どうやってうまくパッチを作って投稿するかに
  ついて非常に詳しく書かれており、以下を含みます(これだけに限らない
  けれども)
 - Email に含むこと
 - Email の形式
 - だれに送るか
  これらのルールに従えばうまくいくことを保証することではありません
  が (すべてのパッチは内容とスタイルについて精査を受けるので)、
  ルールに従わなければ間違いなくうまくいかないでしょう。

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