Re: [alsa-devel] [BUG] New Kernel Bugs
On 15-11-07 14:00, Jörn Engel wrote: And even without mails being held hostage for weeks, every single moderation mail is annoying. Like the one I'm sure to receive after sending this out. Certainly. Upto this thread I wasn't actually aware the list was doing that. While it might be informative once, getting it each time quickly gets old. Don't know if mailman can do anything like it but I'd suggest anyone running a non-subscriber-moderation list configure it to send such messages at most once a per address or some such. And just disable the message if it cannot do that. Fortunately, alsa-devel is (almost) no longer such a list anyway as it's moving to vger. Hurrah. David -- thanks. Rene. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [alsa-devel] [BUG] New Kernel Bugs
At Thu, 15 Nov 2007 14:17:27 +0100, Olivier Galibert wrote: > > On Thu, Nov 15, 2007 at 06:59:34AM +0100, Rene Herman wrote: > > Totally unrelated indeed so why are spouting crap? If the kohab list has a > > problem take it up with them but keep ALSA out of it. alsa-devel has only > > ever moderated out spam -- nothing else. > > That is incorrect. Hopefully it is the case now though, since my > experience of the subject was years ago. Yeah, it was really years ago that we once switched to the open list. Funny that people never forget such a thing :) Takashi - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [alsa-devel] [BUG] New Kernel Bugs
On Thu, Nov 15, 2007 at 06:59:34AM +0100, Rene Herman wrote: > Totally unrelated indeed so why are spouting crap? If the kohab list has a > problem take it up with them but keep ALSA out of it. alsa-devel has only > ever moderated out spam -- nothing else. That is incorrect. Hopefully it is the case now though, since my experience of the subject was years ago. OG. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [alsa-devel] [BUG] New Kernel Bugs
On Thu, 15 November 2007 13:26:51 +0100, Rene Herman wrote: > > Can you please just shelve this crap? You have a way of knowing that "ALSA > will accept you" and that is knowing or assuming that the ALSA project > doesn't consist of drooling retards. Well, my experience with moderation has been that moderated mails are stuck in some queue for weeks. Two seperate lists, neither of them was alsa. If also is doing a better job, great. But it still has to live with the general reputation of non-subscriber moderation. > When a project list goes to the difficulty of moderating non-subscribers it > has made the explicit choice to _not_ become subscriber only. Then refusing > valid non-subscribers after all makes no sense whatsoever. I'm sorry you > got your feelings hurt by that other list but it was no doubt an accident; > take it up with them. Been there, done that. In spite of people not being drooling retards, the amount of time and effort they invest into either moderation or improving the ruleset is quite limited. Problems persist. And even without mails being held hostage for weeks, every single moderation mail is annoying. Like the one I'm sure to receive after sending this out. Jörn -- Joern's library part 5: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/compression-faq/part2/section-9.html - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [alsa-devel] [BUG] New Kernel Bugs
On 15-11-07 13:02, Bron Gondwana wrote: I get the same information from both project websites: "moderated for non-members, public archives" - no way of knowing that ALSA will accept me informing them of something they would be interested without committing to reading or bit-bucketing their list. Can you please just shelve this crap? You have a way of knowing that "ALSA will accept you" and that is knowing or assuming that the ALSA project doesn't consist of drooling retards. When a project list goes to the difficulty of moderating non-subscribers it has made the explicit choice to _not_ become subscriber only. Then refusing valid non-subscribers after all makes no sense whatsoever. I'm sorry you got your feelings hurt by that other list but it was no doubt an accident; take it up with them. Rene. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [alsa-devel] [BUG] New Kernel Bugs
On Thu, Nov 15, 2007 at 06:59:34AM +0100, Rene Herman wrote: > On 15-11-07 05:16, Bron Gondwana wrote: > >> Totally unrelated - I sent something to the kolab mailing list a couple > > [ ... ] > >> I'm sure if I had something that I considered worth informing the ALSA >> project of, I'd be wary of spending the same effort writing a good post >> knowing it may be dropped in between the by a list moderator just selecing >> all and bouncing them. > > Totally unrelated indeed so why are spouting crap? If the kohab list has a > problem take it up with them but keep ALSA out of it. alsa-devel has only > ever moderated out spam -- nothing else. As an outsider to the list, how do I know what your policy will be other than "I've been rejected out of hand by someone else's list, so my experience is that member only lists aren't willing to listen to something I have to say unless I make the effort to sign up and have yet another folder accumulating unread messages". I don't. Well, ok - maybe I do here since I've let myself be dragged in to the debate. Oops. I get the same information from both project websites: "moderated for non-members, public archives" - no way of knowing that ALSA will accept me informing them of something they would be interested without committing to reading or bit-bucketing their list. The alternative is to subscribe just long enough to send something and then unsubscribe again or cold-email a member and ask them to pass a message along. Or post and hope it doesn't get rejected, not even knowing for a day or so. Bron. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [alsa-devel] [BUG] New Kernel Bugs
On Thu, Nov 15, 2007 at 06:59:34AM +0100, Rene Herman wrote: On 15-11-07 05:16, Bron Gondwana wrote: Totally unrelated - I sent something to the kolab mailing list a couple [ ... ] I'm sure if I had something that I considered worth informing the ALSA project of, I'd be wary of spending the same effort writing a good post knowing it may be dropped in between the by a list moderator just selecing all and bouncing them. Totally unrelated indeed so why are spouting crap? If the kohab list has a problem take it up with them but keep ALSA out of it. alsa-devel has only ever moderated out spam -- nothing else. As an outsider to the list, how do I know what your policy will be other than I've been rejected out of hand by someone else's list, so my experience is that member only lists aren't willing to listen to something I have to say unless I make the effort to sign up and have yet another folder accumulating unread messages. I don't. Well, ok - maybe I do here since I've let myself be dragged in to the debate. Oops. I get the same information from both project websites: moderated for non-members, public archives - no way of knowing that ALSA will accept me informing them of something they would be interested without committing to reading or bit-bucketing their list. The alternative is to subscribe just long enough to send something and then unsubscribe again or cold-email a member and ask them to pass a message along. Or post and hope it doesn't get rejected, not even knowing for a day or so. Bron. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [alsa-devel] [BUG] New Kernel Bugs
On 15-11-07 13:02, Bron Gondwana wrote: I get the same information from both project websites: moderated for non-members, public archives - no way of knowing that ALSA will accept me informing them of something they would be interested without committing to reading or bit-bucketing their list. Can you please just shelve this crap? You have a way of knowing that ALSA will accept you and that is knowing or assuming that the ALSA project doesn't consist of drooling retards. When a project list goes to the difficulty of moderating non-subscribers it has made the explicit choice to _not_ become subscriber only. Then refusing valid non-subscribers after all makes no sense whatsoever. I'm sorry you got your feelings hurt by that other list but it was no doubt an accident; take it up with them. Rene. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [alsa-devel] [BUG] New Kernel Bugs
On Thu, 15 November 2007 13:26:51 +0100, Rene Herman wrote: Can you please just shelve this crap? You have a way of knowing that ALSA will accept you and that is knowing or assuming that the ALSA project doesn't consist of drooling retards. Well, my experience with moderation has been that moderated mails are stuck in some queue for weeks. Two seperate lists, neither of them was alsa. If also is doing a better job, great. But it still has to live with the general reputation of non-subscriber moderation. When a project list goes to the difficulty of moderating non-subscribers it has made the explicit choice to _not_ become subscriber only. Then refusing valid non-subscribers after all makes no sense whatsoever. I'm sorry you got your feelings hurt by that other list but it was no doubt an accident; take it up with them. Been there, done that. In spite of people not being drooling retards, the amount of time and effort they invest into either moderation or improving the ruleset is quite limited. Problems persist. And even without mails being held hostage for weeks, every single moderation mail is annoying. Like the one I'm sure to receive after sending this out. Jörn -- Joern's library part 5: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/compression-faq/part2/section-9.html - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [alsa-devel] [BUG] New Kernel Bugs
On Thu, Nov 15, 2007 at 06:59:34AM +0100, Rene Herman wrote: Totally unrelated indeed so why are spouting crap? If the kohab list has a problem take it up with them but keep ALSA out of it. alsa-devel has only ever moderated out spam -- nothing else. That is incorrect. Hopefully it is the case now though, since my experience of the subject was years ago. OG. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [alsa-devel] [BUG] New Kernel Bugs
At Thu, 15 Nov 2007 14:17:27 +0100, Olivier Galibert wrote: On Thu, Nov 15, 2007 at 06:59:34AM +0100, Rene Herman wrote: Totally unrelated indeed so why are spouting crap? If the kohab list has a problem take it up with them but keep ALSA out of it. alsa-devel has only ever moderated out spam -- nothing else. That is incorrect. Hopefully it is the case now though, since my experience of the subject was years ago. Yeah, it was really years ago that we once switched to the open list. Funny that people never forget such a thing :) Takashi - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [alsa-devel] [BUG] New Kernel Bugs
On 15-11-07 14:00, Jörn Engel wrote: And even without mails being held hostage for weeks, every single moderation mail is annoying. Like the one I'm sure to receive after sending this out. Certainly. Upto this thread I wasn't actually aware the list was doing that. While it might be informative once, getting it each time quickly gets old. Don't know if mailman can do anything like it but I'd suggest anyone running a non-subscriber-moderation list configure it to send such messages at most once a time-period per address or some such. And just disable the message if it cannot do that. Fortunately, alsa-devel is (almost) no longer such a list anyway as it's moving to vger. Hurrah. David -- thanks. Rene. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [alsa-devel] [BUG] New Kernel Bugs
On 15-11-07 05:16, Bron Gondwana wrote: Totally unrelated - I sent something to the kolab mailing list a couple [ ... ] I'm sure if I had something that I considered worth informing the ALSA project of, I'd be wary of spending the same effort writing a good post knowing it may be dropped in between the by a list moderator just selecing all and bouncing them. Totally unrelated indeed so why are spouting crap? If the kohab list has a problem take it up with them but keep ALSA out of it. alsa-devel has only ever moderated out spam -- nothing else. ene - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [alsa-devel] [BUG] New Kernel Bugs
On Wed, Nov 14, 2007 at 12:46:24PM +0100, Rene Herman wrote: > On 14-11-07 11:07, David Miller wrote: > > Added Jaroslav and Takashi to the already extensive CC > >> From: Russell King <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>> So, when are you creating a replacement alsa-devel mailing list on >>> vger? That's also subscribers-only. >> The operative term is "alternative" rather than "replacement". >> Perhaps this misunderstanding is what you're so upset about. >> And yes, that alsa list bugs the crap out of me too. I'm more than >> happy to provide an alternative for that one as well. > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] is not subscriber-only. Same as that arm list, > it's _moderated_ for non-subscribers and given that I and other moderators > have been doing our best to moderate quickly (I tend to stay logged in to > the moderation interface all day for example) what specifically bugged the > crap out of you? It's not something a poster needs to concern himself with. Totally unrelated - I sent something to the kolab mailing list a couple of days ago (it's moderated for non subscribers) informing them that I had found the cause of some Cyrus bugs that they had problems with in the past and providing a link to my post to the cyrus list with the patches attached. It sat in the moderation queue and then was rejected with "non subscriber post to subscription only list". Not only was the reponse a day later when I had moved on to other things, but it got me really pissed off that I had put some effort into providing a good quality post that outlined the specific issues and how they applied to their project, and had been summarily dismissed, probably without the effort being put in. There's no way for a non-subscriber to know in advance if the list they are trying to post to will do that to them, completely negating the effort put in to writing something worthwhile to inform that community. It's insular, and it sucks. So yeah, my attitude now is that the Kolab folks can go screw themselves and track down the fix on their own or wait until I've convinced upstream to accept the fixes (likely) and they have moved to the new version (unlikely for a long time, and meanwhile they're missing out on the performance increases that having a more stable skiplist library would give them) I'm sure if I had something that I considered worth informing the ALSA project of, I'd be wary of spending the same effort writing a good post knowing it may be dropped in between the by a list moderator just selecing all and bouncing them. Bron. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [alsa-devel] [BUG] New Kernel Bugs
On 14-11-07 13:01, David Miller wrote: From: David Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 03:56:57 -0800 (PST) The fact that it farts at me every time I post to this thread. See? I got another one and I have received at least 10 of the following over the past 2 days. Nah, in this case you are not even getting them to not being a non-subcriber but due to too many CCs. I got one as well. That just needs to be disabled, does not have anything to do with non-subscribers (and you're in the white list) but is just a retarted bit of list configuration... (no, I can't personally change it, needs Jaroslav Kysela) Rene. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [alsa-devel] [BUG] New Kernel Bugs
On 14-11-07 12:56, David Miller wrote: From: Rene Herman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 12:46:24 +0100 [EMAIL PROTECTED] is not subscriber-only. Same as that arm list, it's _moderated_ for non-subscribers and given that I and other moderators have been doing our best to moderate quickly (I tend to stay logged in to the moderation interface all day for example) what specifically bugged the crap out of you? It's not something a poster needs to concern himself with. The fact that it farts at me every time I post to this thread. That's rude and annoying. It certainly is. I only experienced that now due to the "too many recipients to message" moderation notice that I got from my own message. Jaroslav -- please disable that junk or if possible, make it a "at most once per address per month" thing or somesuch. This is complete crap. Also for alsa-devel the moderators tend to add any valid non-subcribers to a whitelist after landing in the queue the first time meaning even a delay is just a one-time thing normally. So what's the trouble? Basically, noone need even notice... That sucks for new people taking part in the conversation. There is no reason for moderation at all, it isn't necessary for spam prevention and it does nothing but annoy new posters and make work for the moderator. Yes there is. It's necessary for lists that do not have the human and other resouces behind it that vger does. alsa-devel was drowning in spam and dying as a result back when it was at sourceforge. Upon moving, my preference was to ask the lists to be hosted at vger but given that (it seems) Jaroslav wanted to keep them locally, moderation was very necessary. I moderate out quite a bit of spam every day. vger is doing an amazing job at spam filtering -- if it's an option to move to vger, than sure, no need. But otherwise, the "no need" needs a list admin with enough bandwidth and skill. As to the "new people": it's not optimal, but (upto this thread I'll admit -- I woke up to a huge number of posts in the queue) it's not been a _real_ problem. alsa-devel is not high-volume enough for it to be. Rene. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [alsa-devel] [BUG] New Kernel Bugs
From: David Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 03:56:57 -0800 (PST) > The fact that it farts at me every time I post to this thread. See? I got another one and I have received at least 10 of the following over the past 2 days. That's rediculious. And because a human adds the whitelist this is always going to happen to someone when they start posting to the alsa list for the first time. /me gets ready for the 11th copy in response to this one... Subject: Your message to Alsa-devel awaits moderator approval From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 12:57:06 +0100 Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your mail to 'Alsa-devel' with the subject Re: [alsa-devel] [BUG] New Kernel Bugs Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval. The reason it is being held: Too many recipients to the message Either the message will get posted to the list, or you will receive notification of the moderator's decision. If you would like to cancel this posting, please visit the following URL: http://mailman.alsa-project.org/mailman/confirm/alsa-devel/12dd3bd077bbf9cd142f214beae6d22ae43b53aa - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [alsa-devel] [BUG] New Kernel Bugs
From: Rene Herman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 12:46:24 +0100 > [EMAIL PROTECTED] is not subscriber-only. Same as that arm list, > it's _moderated_ for non-subscribers and given that I and other moderators > have been doing our best to moderate quickly (I tend to stay logged in to > the moderation interface all day for example) what specifically bugged the > crap out of you? It's not something a poster needs to concern himself with. The fact that it farts at me every time I post to this thread. That's rude and annoying. > Also for alsa-devel the moderators tend to add any valid non-subcribers to > a whitelist after landing in the queue the first time meaning even a delay > is just a one-time thing normally. So what's the trouble? Basically, noone > need even notice... That sucks for new people taking part in the conversation. There is no reason for moderation at all, it isn't necessary for spam prevention and it does nothing but annoy new posters and make work for the moderator. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [alsa-devel] [BUG] New Kernel Bugs
On 14-11-07 11:07, David Miller wrote: Added Jaroslav and Takashi to the already extensive CC From: Russell King <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> So, when are you creating a replacement alsa-devel mailing list on vger? That's also subscribers-only. The operative term is "alternative" rather than "replacement". Perhaps this misunderstanding is what you're so upset about. And yes, that alsa list bugs the crap out of me too. I'm more than happy to provide an alternative for that one as well. [EMAIL PROTECTED] is not subscriber-only. Same as that arm list, it's _moderated_ for non-subscribers and given that I and other moderators have been doing our best to moderate quickly (I tend to stay logged in to the moderation interface all day for example) what specifically bugged the crap out of you? It's not something a poster needs to concern himself with. Also for alsa-devel the moderators tend to add any valid non-subcribers to a whitelist after landing in the queue the first time meaning even a delay is just a one-time thing normally. So what's the trouble? Basically, noone need even notice... In fact, *poof*, there it is, [EMAIL PROTECTED] is there and available for anyone who wants to use it. Not that I think that moving alsa-devel over to vger wouldn't be a good idea mind you; when the list moved from sourceforge, asking you to host it was my preferred option. I do somewhat suspect that Jaroslav would like to keep the alsa-devel@ name (and I'd like to ask you to then also host alsa-user@) and would then rewrite mail to those lists @alsa-project.org to vger. But what is the problem you speak of with the alsa-devel list? While I would not mind loosing it, moderation hasn't been overly laborious and I'm not aware of any serious problems. Rene. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [alsa-devel] [BUG] New Kernel Bugs
On 14-11-07 11:07, David Miller wrote: Added Jaroslav and Takashi to the already extensive CC From: Russell King [EMAIL PROTECTED] So, when are you creating a replacement alsa-devel mailing list on vger? That's also subscribers-only. The operative term is alternative rather than replacement. Perhaps this misunderstanding is what you're so upset about. And yes, that alsa list bugs the crap out of me too. I'm more than happy to provide an alternative for that one as well. [EMAIL PROTECTED] is not subscriber-only. Same as that arm list, it's _moderated_ for non-subscribers and given that I and other moderators have been doing our best to moderate quickly (I tend to stay logged in to the moderation interface all day for example) what specifically bugged the crap out of you? It's not something a poster needs to concern himself with. Also for alsa-devel the moderators tend to add any valid non-subcribers to a whitelist after landing in the queue the first time meaning even a delay is just a one-time thing normally. So what's the trouble? Basically, noone need even notice... In fact, *poof*, there it is, [EMAIL PROTECTED] is there and available for anyone who wants to use it. Not that I think that moving alsa-devel over to vger wouldn't be a good idea mind you; when the list moved from sourceforge, asking you to host it was my preferred option. I do somewhat suspect that Jaroslav would like to keep the alsa-devel@ name (and I'd like to ask you to then also host alsa-user@) and would then rewrite mail to those lists @alsa-project.org to vger. But what is the problem you speak of with the alsa-devel list? While I would not mind loosing it, moderation hasn't been overly laborious and I'm not aware of any serious problems. Rene. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [alsa-devel] [BUG] New Kernel Bugs
From: Rene Herman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 12:46:24 +0100 [EMAIL PROTECTED] is not subscriber-only. Same as that arm list, it's _moderated_ for non-subscribers and given that I and other moderators have been doing our best to moderate quickly (I tend to stay logged in to the moderation interface all day for example) what specifically bugged the crap out of you? It's not something a poster needs to concern himself with. The fact that it farts at me every time I post to this thread. That's rude and annoying. Also for alsa-devel the moderators tend to add any valid non-subcribers to a whitelist after landing in the queue the first time meaning even a delay is just a one-time thing normally. So what's the trouble? Basically, noone need even notice... That sucks for new people taking part in the conversation. There is no reason for moderation at all, it isn't necessary for spam prevention and it does nothing but annoy new posters and make work for the moderator. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [alsa-devel] [BUG] New Kernel Bugs
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 03:56:57 -0800 (PST) The fact that it farts at me every time I post to this thread. See? I got another one and I have received at least 10 of the following over the past 2 days. That's rediculious. And because a human adds the whitelist this is always going to happen to someone when they start posting to the alsa list for the first time. /me gets ready for the 11th copy in response to this one... Subject: Your message to Alsa-devel awaits moderator approval From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 12:57:06 +0100 Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your mail to 'Alsa-devel' with the subject Re: [alsa-devel] [BUG] New Kernel Bugs Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval. The reason it is being held: Too many recipients to the message Either the message will get posted to the list, or you will receive notification of the moderator's decision. If you would like to cancel this posting, please visit the following URL: http://mailman.alsa-project.org/mailman/confirm/alsa-devel/12dd3bd077bbf9cd142f214beae6d22ae43b53aa - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [alsa-devel] [BUG] New Kernel Bugs
On 14-11-07 12:56, David Miller wrote: From: Rene Herman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 12:46:24 +0100 [EMAIL PROTECTED] is not subscriber-only. Same as that arm list, it's _moderated_ for non-subscribers and given that I and other moderators have been doing our best to moderate quickly (I tend to stay logged in to the moderation interface all day for example) what specifically bugged the crap out of you? It's not something a poster needs to concern himself with. The fact that it farts at me every time I post to this thread. That's rude and annoying. It certainly is. I only experienced that now due to the too many recipients to message moderation notice that I got from my own message. Jaroslav -- please disable that junk or if possible, make it a at most once per address per month thing or somesuch. This is complete crap. Also for alsa-devel the moderators tend to add any valid non-subcribers to a whitelist after landing in the queue the first time meaning even a delay is just a one-time thing normally. So what's the trouble? Basically, noone need even notice... That sucks for new people taking part in the conversation. There is no reason for moderation at all, it isn't necessary for spam prevention and it does nothing but annoy new posters and make work for the moderator. Yes there is. It's necessary for lists that do not have the human and other resouces behind it that vger does. alsa-devel was drowning in spam and dying as a result back when it was at sourceforge. Upon moving, my preference was to ask the lists to be hosted at vger but given that (it seems) Jaroslav wanted to keep them locally, moderation was very necessary. I moderate out quite a bit of spam every day. vger is doing an amazing job at spam filtering -- if it's an option to move to vger, than sure, no need. But otherwise, the no need needs a list admin with enough bandwidth and skill. As to the new people: it's not optimal, but (upto this thread I'll admit -- I woke up to a huge number of posts in the queue) it's not been a _real_ problem. alsa-devel is not high-volume enough for it to be. Rene. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [alsa-devel] [BUG] New Kernel Bugs
On 14-11-07 13:01, David Miller wrote: From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 03:56:57 -0800 (PST) The fact that it farts at me every time I post to this thread. See? I got another one and I have received at least 10 of the following over the past 2 days. Nah, in this case you are not even getting them to not being a non-subcriber but due to too many CCs. I got one as well. That just needs to be disabled, does not have anything to do with non-subscribers (and you're in the white list) but is just a retarted bit of list configuration... (no, I can't personally change it, needs Jaroslav Kysela) Rene. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [alsa-devel] [BUG] New Kernel Bugs
On Wed, Nov 14, 2007 at 12:46:24PM +0100, Rene Herman wrote: On 14-11-07 11:07, David Miller wrote: Added Jaroslav and Takashi to the already extensive CC From: Russell King [EMAIL PROTECTED] So, when are you creating a replacement alsa-devel mailing list on vger? That's also subscribers-only. The operative term is alternative rather than replacement. Perhaps this misunderstanding is what you're so upset about. And yes, that alsa list bugs the crap out of me too. I'm more than happy to provide an alternative for that one as well. [EMAIL PROTECTED] is not subscriber-only. Same as that arm list, it's _moderated_ for non-subscribers and given that I and other moderators have been doing our best to moderate quickly (I tend to stay logged in to the moderation interface all day for example) what specifically bugged the crap out of you? It's not something a poster needs to concern himself with. Totally unrelated - I sent something to the kolab mailing list a couple of days ago (it's moderated for non subscribers) informing them that I had found the cause of some Cyrus bugs that they had problems with in the past and providing a link to my post to the cyrus list with the patches attached. It sat in the moderation queue and then was rejected with non subscriber post to subscription only list. Not only was the reponse a day later when I had moved on to other things, but it got me really pissed off that I had put some effort into providing a good quality post that outlined the specific issues and how they applied to their project, and had been summarily dismissed, probably without the effort being put in. There's no way for a non-subscriber to know in advance if the list they are trying to post to will do that to them, completely negating the effort put in to writing something worthwhile to inform that community. It's insular, and it sucks. So yeah, my attitude now is that the Kolab folks can go screw themselves and track down the fix on their own or wait until I've convinced upstream to accept the fixes (likely) and they have moved to the new version (unlikely for a long time, and meanwhile they're missing out on the performance increases that having a more stable skiplist library would give them) I'm sure if I had something that I considered worth informing the ALSA project of, I'd be wary of spending the same effort writing a good post knowing it may be dropped in between the by a list moderator just selecing all and bouncing them. Bron. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [alsa-devel] [BUG] New Kernel Bugs
On 15-11-07 05:16, Bron Gondwana wrote: Totally unrelated - I sent something to the kolab mailing list a couple [ ... ] I'm sure if I had something that I considered worth informing the ALSA project of, I'd be wary of spending the same effort writing a good post knowing it may be dropped in between the by a list moderator just selecing all and bouncing them. Totally unrelated indeed so why are spouting crap? If the kohab list has a problem take it up with them but keep ALSA out of it. alsa-devel has only ever moderated out spam -- nothing else. ene - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
