Re: Distro kernel patches (was Re: Linux 2.2.18pre4)
Hi, On Wed, Sep 13, David S. Miller wrote: > It's an especially amusing situation especially since no vendor has > shipped a distribution without the raid patches applied to their > kernel for almost 2 years now. You have a very interesting definition of "no vendor". > Later, > David S. Miller -o) Hubert Mantel Goodbye, dots... /\\ _\_v - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Distro kernel patches (was Re: Linux 2.2.18pre4)
Hi, On Wed, Sep 13, David S. Miller wrote: It's an especially amusing situation especially since no vendor has shipped a distribution without the raid patches applied to their kernel for almost 2 years now. You have a very interesting definition of "no vendor". Later, David S. Miller -o) Hubert Mantel Goodbye, dots... /\\ _\_v - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Distro kernel patches (was Re: Linux 2.2.18pre4)
On Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 05:31:17PM -0400, Richard B. Johnson wrote: > On 13 Sep 2000, Ralf Gerbig wrote: > > > * Chip Salzenberg writes: > > > > Hi Chip, > > > > > According to Ralf Gerbig: > > >> but SuSe and I believe RedHat etc. etc. _do_ ship patched kernels. > > > > > You've just made L-K's understatement of the day. > > > > [...] > > > > so I rest my case vs shrink wrap. > > > > Yep. I installed Suse-6.4 on my laptop. Since I needed APM to work, I > recompiled the kernel source that they supplied. First, I just did > `make oldconfig` so I could duplicate the existing kernel. Well. > No such luck. There was no way in hell I could duplicate the kernel > that they supplied, with the sources that they supplied. And there > was no secret 'patch' directory either... I'm not sure (don't have a SuSE box right here) but I think they have separate packages for patched and unpatched kernel sources. I also remember their kernel patches are even separately stored somewhere. -- Andreas E. Bombe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>DSA key 0x04880A44 http://home.pages.de/~andreas.bombe/http://linux1394.sourceforge.net/ - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Distro kernel patches (was Re: Linux 2.2.18pre4)
On Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 05:31:17PM -0400, Richard B. Johnson wrote: On 13 Sep 2000, Ralf Gerbig wrote: * Chip Salzenberg writes: Hi Chip, According to Ralf Gerbig: but SuSe and I believe RedHat etc. etc. _do_ ship patched kernels. You've just made L-K's understatement of the day. [...] so I rest my case vs shrink wrap. Yep. I installed Suse-6.4 on my laptop. Since I needed APM to work, I recompiled the kernel source that they supplied. First, I just did `make oldconfig` so I could duplicate the existing kernel. Well. No such luck. There was no way in hell I could duplicate the kernel that they supplied, with the sources that they supplied. And there was no secret 'patch' directory either... I'm not sure (don't have a SuSE box right here) but I think they have separate packages for patched and unpatched kernel sources. I also remember their kernel patches are even separately stored somewhere. -- Andreas E. Bombe [EMAIL PROTECTED]DSA key 0x04880A44 http://home.pages.de/~andreas.bombe/http://linux1394.sourceforge.net/ - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Distro kernel patches (was Re: Linux 2.2.18pre4)
On Wed, 13 Sep 2000, Chip Salzenberg wrote: > According to Andre Hedrick: > So I've noticed. Do you not believe in its technical future, or are > you just conserving what's left of your free time? I would be attending an ice skating party below before I would see this included, and I am short on time. With the addition of a PPC toy the debugging of a second arch is heavy. And if others arrive it will get worse. Cheers, Andre Hedrick The Linux ATA/IDE guy - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Distro kernel patches (was Re: Linux 2.2.18pre4)
On 13 Sep 2000, Ralf Gerbig wrote: > * Chip Salzenberg writes: > > Hi Chip, > > > According to Ralf Gerbig: > >> but SuSe and I believe RedHat etc. etc. _do_ ship patched kernels. > > > You've just made L-K's understatement of the day. > > [...] > > so I rest my case vs shrink wrap. > Yep. I installed Suse-6.4 on my laptop. Since I needed APM to work, I recompiled the kernel source that they supplied. First, I just did `make oldconfig` so I could duplicate the existing kernel. Well. No such luck. There was no way in hell I could duplicate the kernel that they supplied, with the sources that they supplied. And there was no secret 'patch' directory either... And I thought this was the whole idea of (GPL) [Snipped...] : 3. You may copy and distribute the Program (or a work based on it, under Section 2) in object code or executable form under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above provided that you also do one of the following: a) Accompany it with the complete corresponding machine-readable source code, which must be distributed under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above on a medium customarily used for software interchange; or, But what do I know, I haven't bought any lawyers lately ;~) Cheers, Dick Johnson Penguin : Linux version 2.2.15 on an i686 machine (797.90 BogoMips). "Memory is like gasoline. You use it up when you are running. Of course you get it all back when you reboot..."; Actual explanation obtained from the Micro$oft help desk. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Distro kernel patches (was Re: Linux 2.2.18pre4)
* Chip Salzenberg writes: Hi Chip, > According to Ralf Gerbig: >> but SuSe and I believe RedHat etc. etc. _do_ ship patched kernels. > You've just made L-K's understatement of the day. [...] so I rest my case vs shrink wrap. OTOH one of the first things I do after trying a new distribution is to replace the kernel by the latest and greatest, at least for the box at home and mine at work. I think I know what I am doing, or suffer otherwise. Those who want to upgrade their kernels have a choice between vendor suplied rpms, debs, tar.gz´s or the one and only from [ftp|http]//ftp.**.kernel.org. If they choose the latter, I would presume they are able to patch that one to their liking. OK I confess I usually chicken out and wait for those who_really_ know what they are doing, to supply their patches to the mainstream kernel. What I am trying to say is that I am perfectly happy to wait until the maintainers integrate the code into the mainstream kernel. Ralf -- P: Linus Torvalds patch-2.2.4 -S: Buried alive in diapers +S: Buried alive in reporters - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Distro kernel patches (was Re: Linux 2.2.18pre4)
> > Solve that and the tool back compatibility problem for the cases in > > question in a way Ingo is happy with and Raid 0.90 can go in. Simple > > as that. > > Apply the RAID 0.90 patch and make Ingo (or someone else) > maintain a patch which backs it out. 2.2 out of the box has to stay back compatible. Period - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Distro kernel patches (was Re: Linux 2.2.18pre4)
On Wed, 13 Sep 2000, Alan Cox wrote: > > [1] I understand the RAID issue with disk format compatibility, which > > makes the current RAID patch unacceptable for official 2.2 usage. > > I just wish somebody would *solve* that issue.[2] > Solve that and the tool back compatibility problem for the cases in > question in a way Ingo is happy with and Raid 0.90 can go in. Simple > as that. Easy. Apply the RAID 0.90 patch and make Ingo (or someone else) maintain a patch which backs it out. That would, I think, keep a vast majority of RAID users happy, while offering compatibility for the few users of the legacy code. Matthew. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Distro kernel patches (was Re: Linux 2.2.18pre4)
On Wed, 13 Sep 2000, Chip Salzenberg wrote: > that reducing it isn't worthwhile. The more de facto standard patches > (*cough* NFS RAID[1] HedrickIDE *ahem*) can get into the 2.2 tree, the > easier it will be for everyone to stay up to date, and the less effort > will be wasted on basically clerical patch maintenance work. Thanks Chip but the backporting to 2.2 has been terminated. I stopped at 2.2.18-3 and would have stopped at 2.2.15-pre7 if someone had not taken the time to do it for me. Cheers, Andre Hedrick The Linux ATA/IDE guy - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Distro kernel patches (was Re: Linux 2.2.18pre4)
> [1] I understand the RAID issue with disk format compatibility, which > makes the current RAID patch unacceptable for official 2.2 usage. > I just wish somebody would *solve* that issue.[2] > [2] Having complained about a problem, have I just volunteered myself > to solve it? (HHOS) Solve that and the tool back compatibility problem for the cases in question in a way Ingo is happy with and Raid 0.90 can go in. Simple as that. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Distro kernel patches (was Re: Linux 2.2.18pre4)
Date:Wed, 13 Sep 2000 06:08:04 -0700 From: Chip Salzenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [1] I understand the RAID issue with disk format compatibility, which makes the current RAID patch unacceptable for official 2.2 usage. I just wish somebody would *solve* that issue.[2] [2] Having complained about a problem, have I just volunteered myself to solve it? (HHOS) It's an especially amusing situation especially since no vendor has shipped a distribution without the raid patches applied to their kernel for almost 2 years now. I'd say at least 9 out of 10 people using raid, are using the raid patches. In fact you could almost consider it a bug that stock 2.2.x kernels are not on-disk compatible with 9 out of 10 raid installations out there :-) Later, David S. Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Distro kernel patches (was Re: Linux 2.2.18pre4)
According to Ralf Gerbig: > but SuSe and I believe RedHat etc. etc. _do_ ship patched kernels. You've just made L-K's understatement of the day. VA has always shipped a patched kernel. As of a few weeks ago, I'm VA's new kernel coordinator. We're not quite done with the current internal development cycle for a new kernel; but already we've applied to our kernel tree about a dozen major patches and over fifty minor ones. And that's on top of 2.2.18pre, into which Alan had already merged USB, AGP, and DRM (Thanks, Alan!!!). People who run big systems and big applications need these patches: 2.4 isn't ready for production use, stock 2.2 can't make full use of modern hardware, and the world is moving at Internet time. And VA's patching habits are the rule, not the exception. Andrea makes SuSE's kernel, and anyone who's scanned people/andrea on kernel.org knows how many patches he uses. (I greatly appreciate Andrea's patch archive, BTW. It's a great place to get major patches reconciled with each other.) And Red Hat's kernel, last I looked, had over 150 patches on top of 2.2.14. On the other hand, just because patching is inevitable doesn't mean that reducing it isn't worthwhile. The more de facto standard patches (*cough* NFS RAID[1] HedrickIDE *ahem*) can get into the 2.2 tree, the easier it will be for everyone to stay up to date, and the less effort will be wasted on basically clerical patch maintenance work. [1] I understand the RAID issue with disk format compatibility, which makes the current RAID patch unacceptable for official 2.2 usage. I just wish somebody would *solve* that issue.[2] [2] Having complained about a problem, have I just volunteered myself to solve it? (HHOS) -- Chip Salzenberg - a.k.a. - <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> "I wanted to play hopscotch with the impenetrable mystery of existence, but he stepped in a wormhole and had to go in early." // MST3K - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Distro kernel patches (was Re: Linux 2.2.18pre4)
[1] I understand the RAID issue with disk format compatibility, which makes the current RAID patch unacceptable for official 2.2 usage. I just wish somebody would *solve* that issue.[2] [2] Having complained about a problem, have I just volunteered myself to solve it? (HHOS) Solve that and the tool back compatibility problem for the cases in question in a way Ingo is happy with and Raid 0.90 can go in. Simple as that. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Distro kernel patches (was Re: Linux 2.2.18pre4)
On Wed, 13 Sep 2000, Alan Cox wrote: [1] I understand the RAID issue with disk format compatibility, which makes the current RAID patch unacceptable for official 2.2 usage. I just wish somebody would *solve* that issue.[2] Solve that and the tool back compatibility problem for the cases in question in a way Ingo is happy with and Raid 0.90 can go in. Simple as that. Easy. Apply the RAID 0.90 patch and make Ingo (or someone else) maintain a patch which backs it out. That would, I think, keep a vast majority of RAID users happy, while offering compatibility for the few users of the legacy code. Matthew. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Distro kernel patches (was Re: Linux 2.2.18pre4)
* Chip Salzenberg writes: Hi Chip, According to Ralf Gerbig: but SuSe and I believe RedHat etc. etc. _do_ ship patched kernels. You've just made L-K's understatement of the day. [...] so I rest my case vs shrink wrap. OTOH one of the first things I do after trying a new distribution is to replace the kernel by the latest and greatest, at least for the box at home and mine at work. I think I know what I am doing, or suffer otherwise. Those who want to upgrade their kernels have a choice between vendor suplied rpms, debs, tar.gz´s or the one and only from [ftp|http]//ftp.**.kernel.org. If they choose the latter, I would presume they are able to patch that one to their liking. OK I confess I usually chicken out and wait for those who_really_ know what they are doing, to supply their patches to the mainstream kernel. What I am trying to say is that I am perfectly happy to wait until the maintainers integrate the code into the mainstream kernel. Ralf -- P: Linus Torvalds patch-2.2.4 -S: Buried alive in diapers +S: Buried alive in reporters - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Distro kernel patches (was Re: Linux 2.2.18pre4)
On 13 Sep 2000, Ralf Gerbig wrote: * Chip Salzenberg writes: Hi Chip, According to Ralf Gerbig: but SuSe and I believe RedHat etc. etc. _do_ ship patched kernels. You've just made L-K's understatement of the day. [...] so I rest my case vs shrink wrap. Yep. I installed Suse-6.4 on my laptop. Since I needed APM to work, I recompiled the kernel source that they supplied. First, I just did `make oldconfig` so I could duplicate the existing kernel. Well. No such luck. There was no way in hell I could duplicate the kernel that they supplied, with the sources that they supplied. And there was no secret 'patch' directory either... And I thought this was the whole idea of (GPL) [Snipped...] : 3. You may copy and distribute the Program (or a work based on it, under Section 2) in object code or executable form under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above provided that you also do one of the following: a) Accompany it with the complete corresponding machine-readable source code, which must be distributed under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above on a medium customarily used for software interchange; or, But what do I know, I haven't bought any lawyers lately ;~) Cheers, Dick Johnson Penguin : Linux version 2.2.15 on an i686 machine (797.90 BogoMips). "Memory is like gasoline. You use it up when you are running. Of course you get it all back when you reboot..."; Actual explanation obtained from the Micro$oft help desk. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Distro kernel patches (was Re: Linux 2.2.18pre4)
On Wed, 13 Sep 2000, Chip Salzenberg wrote: According to Andre Hedrick: So I've noticed. Do you not believe in its technical future, or are you just conserving what's left of your free time? I would be attending an ice skating party below before I would see this included, and I am short on time. With the addition of a PPC toy the debugging of a second arch is heavy. And if others arrive it will get worse. Cheers, Andre Hedrick The Linux ATA/IDE guy - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Distro kernel patches (was Re: Linux 2.2.18pre4)
Date:Wed, 13 Sep 2000 06:08:04 -0700 From: Chip Salzenberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] [1] I understand the RAID issue with disk format compatibility, which makes the current RAID patch unacceptable for official 2.2 usage. I just wish somebody would *solve* that issue.[2] [2] Having complained about a problem, have I just volunteered myself to solve it? (HHOS) It's an especially amusing situation especially since no vendor has shipped a distribution without the raid patches applied to their kernel for almost 2 years now. I'd say at least 9 out of 10 people using raid, are using the raid patches. In fact you could almost consider it a bug that stock 2.2.x kernels are not on-disk compatible with 9 out of 10 raid installations out there :-) Later, David S. Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
