Re: [OT]Linus trademarks Linux?!!
Linus Torvalds wrote: Gaah. I don't tend to bother about slashdot, because quite frankly, the whole _point_ of slashdot is to have this big public wanking session with people getting together and making their own "insightful" comment on any random topic, whether they know anything about it or not. Thanks Sire! No more confusion, now. Regards DD Linus - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [OT]Linus trademarks Linux?!!
Linus Torvalds wrote: Gaah. I don't tend to bother about slashdot, because quite frankly, the whole _point_ of slashdot is to have this big public wanking session with people getting together and making their own insightful comment on any random topic, whether they know anything about it or not. Thanks Sire! No more confusion, now. Regards DD Linus - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [OT]Linus trademarks Linux?!!
On Sun, 2005-08-21 at 11:09 -0600, Alejandro Bonilla Beeche wrote: > On Sat, 2005-08-20 at 17:42 -0700, Linus Torvalds wrote: > > So to answer a particular question that came up here on Linux-kernel: > > "Does the linuxjournal.com pay $5000?". > Linus, > > Thanks for the answer and your time. I just kind of freaked out with my > newbie understandment and my linuxwireless.org... ;-) > > dammed those websites who confused me. They don't call it "net of a thousand lies" for nothing. -- Alan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [OT]Linus trademarks Linux?!!
On Sun, 2005-08-21 at 11:09 -0600, Alejandro Bonilla Beeche wrote: On Sat, 2005-08-20 at 17:42 -0700, Linus Torvalds wrote: So to answer a particular question that came up here on Linux-kernel: Does the linuxjournal.com pay $5000?. Linus, Thanks for the answer and your time. I just kind of freaked out with my newbie understandment and my linuxwireless.org... ;-) dammed those websites who confused me. They don't call it net of a thousand lies for nothing. -- Alan [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [OT]Linus trademarks Linux?!!
Gaah. I don't tend to bother about slashdot, because quite frankly, the
whole _point_ of slashdot is to have this big public wanking session with
people getting together and making their own "insightful" comment on any
random topic, whether they know anything about it or not.
[ And don't get me wrong - I follow slashdot too, exactly because it's fun
to see people argue. I'm not complaining ;]
And I don't tend to worry about the Inquirer and the Register, because
both of them are all about being rough and saying things in ways that
might not be acceptable in other places, and that's what makes them fun to
read. So when they then write something nasty about Linux (or me), hey, it
goes with the territory.
But I was really hoping this particular wanking session wouldn't overflow
into Linux-kernel.
Anyway, the posting Jesper points to is a fine one. Partly to show that
this trademark thing sure as hell isn't anything new, and partly because
the rules really haven't changed.
So let's repeat that link again, just as background,
http://boudicca.tux.org/hypermail/linux-kernel/2000week04/0654.html
and then people should think a bit (and maybe research) what a trademark
really means.
A trademark exists to set up some rules about using a "mark" (name, logo,
you name it) in trade. The people who pay to license (or get a unique
trademark of their own) a certain name do so because they care about that
particular name. People who don't care, don't pay. It's really that easy.
It's about getting legal protection for a particular name.
For example, this means that a _user_ would never pay a single cent over a
trademark. I don't know why/how the Inq even came to that "companies to
pay for using free software" idea. It shows a total lack of understanding
about what a trademark is in the first place.
Now, a company that has a company name usually _does_ want to protect
their name. Not always, but it's kind of embarrassing (and easily an
expensive and big bother) if somebody else trademarks that name, and then
sends a cease-and-desist order to you and forces you to switch to
something else.
So you'll find that most commerical entities protect their name some way,
regardless of _what_ that name is. For example, let's say that you called
your company or distribution "Lipro", then you'd like to trademark that.
Goodie. It's pretty expensive, but most companies feel that it's more than
worth it to know that you've got exclusive rights to that name, and nobody
else can force you to change,
So the first point here is that regardless of you call your Linux
distribution "Linux Something" or something totally different, you'll want
to protect that name if you are serious about making a big commercial
distribution. Exactly because you do _not_ want to be in the situation
that somebody else hijacks your name from you.
Now, you can do that protection two different ways: you can make up a
unique name of your own ("Red Hat" or "Linspire" or "Debian" or whatever),
and trademark that. Then the trademark office keeps track of things, and
guarantees that there are no clashes (within your business area).
Or, alternatively, you can ask somebody else who already has a unique name
if they might "sublicense" their name in combination with something else.
In the case of "Linux", that name is already guaranteed unique by the
trademark office, so let's say that you felt that you wanted to have a
unique name that contained that, you'd approach LMI and say "I want to
call my magazine LinuxJournal, can you write up paperwork that makes sure
that nobody else can do so"?
And let's repeat: somebody who doesn't want to _protect_ that name would
never do this. You can call anything "MyLinux", but the downside is that
you may have somebody else who _did_ protect himself come along and send
you a cease-and-desist letter. Or, if the name ends up showing up in a
trademark search that LMI needs to do every once in a while just to
protect the trademark (another legal requirement for trademarks), LMI
itself might have to send you a cease-and-desist-or-sublicense it letter.
At which point you either rename it to something else, or you sublicense
it. See? It's all about whether _you_ need the protection or not, not
about whether LMI wants the money or not.
As to the "cease-and-desist or sublicense the mark" letters, they are
sadly directly brought on by the requirements of maintaining a trademark.
If you have a trademark, you have to police it, which means that you have
to do trademark searches to see who uses it in a commercial setting, and
make sure that they use it properly.
So to answer a particular question that came up here on Linux-kernel:
"Does the linuxjournal.com pay $5000?".
First off, I don't know where the $5000 came from - it's different for
different classes of people. Secondly, LinuxJournal was one of the
companies that raised the money to get the "Linux" trademark in the first
place!
Re: [OT]Linus trademarks Linux?!!
On 8/20/05, Alejandro Bonilla Beeche <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Fri, 2005-08-19 at 22:13 -0700, alan wrote: > > On Sat, 20 Aug 2005, Kernel Hacker wrote: > > > > > Friend, > > > What fact is behind this article > > > http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=25529. > > > > The article is also wrong. > > > > Try this one instead... > > > > http://os.newsforge.com/os/05/08/19/1842249.shtml?tid=2=138 > > OK, now I would like to see a more official statement about this. Does > the linuxjournal.com pay $5000? > > If I ever do something commercial with linuxwireless.org, I will need to > pay $5000? > > Linus? > Linux being a registered trademark is old news. Linus clarified the whole "Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds" thing back in 2000 in a lengthy email to LKML. He explained both why Linux was registered as a trademark, why he has to enforce/police it to keep it, and what the groundrules regarding its use are (and don't worry, it's all quite sensible). You can find the email here : http://boudicca.tux.org/hypermail/linux-kernel/2000week04/0654.html -- Jesper Juhl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Don't top-post http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/T/top-post.html Plain text mails only, please http://www.expita.com/nomime.html - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [OT]Linus trademarks Linux?!!
On Sat, 2005-08-20 at 11:06 +0400, Alexey Dobriyan wrote: > On Sat, Aug 20, 2005 at 12:45:46AM -0600, Alejandro Bonilla Beeche wrote: > > OK, now I would like to see a more official statement about this. Does > > the linuxjournal.com pay $5000? > > Counting someone else money? I'm not counting anyone's money. Is an example. (But Now I know they don't need to) > > > If I ever do something commercial with linuxwireless.org, I will need to > > pay $5000? > > Go to their website and ask. They have a "Contact Us" form. Please, stop > Cc'ing linux-kernel. Sorry, I did not start the thread and I have all the info under this URL http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20050816092029989 .Alejandro Done - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [OT]Linus trademarks Linux?!!
On Fri, 2005-08-19 at 22:13 -0700, alan wrote: > On Sat, 20 Aug 2005, Kernel Hacker wrote: > > > Friend, > > What fact is behind this article > > http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=25529. > > The article is also wrong. > > Try this one instead... > > http://os.newsforge.com/os/05/08/19/1842249.shtml?tid=2=138 OK, now I would like to see a more official statement about this. Does the linuxjournal.com pay $5000? If I ever do something commercial with linuxwireless.org, I will need to pay $5000? Linus? .Alejandro - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [OT]Linus trademarks Linux?!!
On Sat, 20 Aug 2005, Kernel Hacker wrote: > Friend, > What fact is behind this article > http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=25529. The article is also wrong. Try this one instead... http://os.newsforge.com/os/05/08/19/1842249.shtml?tid=2=138 -- Q: Why do programmers confuse Halloween and Christmas? A: Because OCT 31 == DEC 25. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [OT]Linus trademarks Linux?!!
On Sat, 20 Aug 2005, Kernel Hacker wrote: Friend, What fact is behind this article http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=25529. The article is also wrong. Try this one instead... http://os.newsforge.com/os/05/08/19/1842249.shtml?tid=2tid=138 -- Q: Why do programmers confuse Halloween and Christmas? A: Because OCT 31 == DEC 25. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [OT]Linus trademarks Linux?!!
On Fri, 2005-08-19 at 22:13 -0700, alan wrote: On Sat, 20 Aug 2005, Kernel Hacker wrote: Friend, What fact is behind this article http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=25529. The article is also wrong. Try this one instead... http://os.newsforge.com/os/05/08/19/1842249.shtml?tid=2tid=138 OK, now I would like to see a more official statement about this. Does the linuxjournal.com pay $5000? If I ever do something commercial with linuxwireless.org, I will need to pay $5000? Linus? .Alejandro - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [OT]Linus trademarks Linux?!!
On Sat, 2005-08-20 at 11:06 +0400, Alexey Dobriyan wrote: On Sat, Aug 20, 2005 at 12:45:46AM -0600, Alejandro Bonilla Beeche wrote: OK, now I would like to see a more official statement about this. Does the linuxjournal.com pay $5000? Counting someone else money? I'm not counting anyone's money. Is an example. (But Now I know they don't need to) If I ever do something commercial with linuxwireless.org, I will need to pay $5000? Go to their website and ask. They have a Contact Us form. Please, stop Cc'ing linux-kernel. Sorry, I did not start the thread and I have all the info under this URL http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20050816092029989 .Alejandro Done - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [OT]Linus trademarks Linux?!!
On 8/20/05, Alejandro Bonilla Beeche [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 2005-08-19 at 22:13 -0700, alan wrote: On Sat, 20 Aug 2005, Kernel Hacker wrote: Friend, What fact is behind this article http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=25529. The article is also wrong. Try this one instead... http://os.newsforge.com/os/05/08/19/1842249.shtml?tid=2tid=138 OK, now I would like to see a more official statement about this. Does the linuxjournal.com pay $5000? If I ever do something commercial with linuxwireless.org, I will need to pay $5000? Linus? Linux being a registered trademark is old news. Linus clarified the whole Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds thing back in 2000 in a lengthy email to LKML. He explained both why Linux was registered as a trademark, why he has to enforce/police it to keep it, and what the groundrules regarding its use are (and don't worry, it's all quite sensible). You can find the email here : http://boudicca.tux.org/hypermail/linux-kernel/2000week04/0654.html -- Jesper Juhl [EMAIL PROTECTED] Don't top-post http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/T/top-post.html Plain text mails only, please http://www.expita.com/nomime.html - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [OT]Linus trademarks Linux?!!
Gaah. I don't tend to bother about slashdot, because quite frankly, the whole _point_ of slashdot is to have this big public wanking session with people getting together and making their own insightful comment on any random topic, whether they know anything about it or not. [ And don't get me wrong - I follow slashdot too, exactly because it's fun to see people argue. I'm not complaining ;] And I don't tend to worry about the Inquirer and the Register, because both of them are all about being rough and saying things in ways that might not be acceptable in other places, and that's what makes them fun to read. So when they then write something nasty about Linux (or me), hey, it goes with the territory. But I was really hoping this particular wanking session wouldn't overflow into Linux-kernel. Anyway, the posting Jesper points to is a fine one. Partly to show that this trademark thing sure as hell isn't anything new, and partly because the rules really haven't changed. So let's repeat that link again, just as background, http://boudicca.tux.org/hypermail/linux-kernel/2000week04/0654.html and then people should think a bit (and maybe research) what a trademark really means. A trademark exists to set up some rules about using a mark (name, logo, you name it) in trade. The people who pay to license (or get a unique trademark of their own) a certain name do so because they care about that particular name. People who don't care, don't pay. It's really that easy. It's about getting legal protection for a particular name. For example, this means that a _user_ would never pay a single cent over a trademark. I don't know why/how the Inq even came to that companies to pay for using free software idea. It shows a total lack of understanding about what a trademark is in the first place. Now, a company that has a company name usually _does_ want to protect their name. Not always, but it's kind of embarrassing (and easily an expensive and big bother) if somebody else trademarks that name, and then sends a cease-and-desist order to you and forces you to switch to something else. So you'll find that most commerical entities protect their name some way, regardless of _what_ that name is. For example, let's say that you called your company or distribution Lipro, then you'd like to trademark that. Goodie. It's pretty expensive, but most companies feel that it's more than worth it to know that you've got exclusive rights to that name, and nobody else can force you to change, So the first point here is that regardless of you call your Linux distribution Linux Something or something totally different, you'll want to protect that name if you are serious about making a big commercial distribution. Exactly because you do _not_ want to be in the situation that somebody else hijacks your name from you. Now, you can do that protection two different ways: you can make up a unique name of your own (Red Hat or Linspire or Debian or whatever), and trademark that. Then the trademark office keeps track of things, and guarantees that there are no clashes (within your business area). Or, alternatively, you can ask somebody else who already has a unique name if they might sublicense their name in combination with something else. In the case of Linux, that name is already guaranteed unique by the trademark office, so let's say that you felt that you wanted to have a unique name that contained that, you'd approach LMI and say I want to call my magazine LinuxJournal, can you write up paperwork that makes sure that nobody else can do so? And let's repeat: somebody who doesn't want to _protect_ that name would never do this. You can call anything MyLinux, but the downside is that you may have somebody else who _did_ protect himself come along and send you a cease-and-desist letter. Or, if the name ends up showing up in a trademark search that LMI needs to do every once in a while just to protect the trademark (another legal requirement for trademarks), LMI itself might have to send you a cease-and-desist-or-sublicense it letter. At which point you either rename it to something else, or you sublicense it. See? It's all about whether _you_ need the protection or not, not about whether LMI wants the money or not. As to the cease-and-desist or sublicense the mark letters, they are sadly directly brought on by the requirements of maintaining a trademark. If you have a trademark, you have to police it, which means that you have to do trademark searches to see who uses it in a commercial setting, and make sure that they use it properly. So to answer a particular question that came up here on Linux-kernel: Does the linuxjournal.com pay $5000?. First off, I don't know where the $5000 came from - it's different for different classes of people. Secondly, LinuxJournal was one of the companies that raised the money to get the Linux trademark in the first place! As a result, they don't pay a
