Re: [REPORT] First "glitch1" results, 2.6.21-rc7-git6-CFSv5 + SD 0.46
Con Kolivas wrote: On Friday 27 April 2007 08:00, Bill Davidsen wrote: Ingo Molnar wrote: * Ed Tomlinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: SD 0.46 1-2 FPS cfs v5 nice -19 219-233 FPS cfs v5 nice 0 1000-1996 cfs v5 nice -10 60-65 FPS the problem is, the glxgears portion of this test is an _inverse_ testcase. The reason? glxgears on true 3D hardware will _not_ use X, it will directly use the 3D driver of the kernel. So by renicing X to -19 you give the xterms more chance to show stuff - the performance of the glxgears will 'degrade' - but that is what you asked for: glxgears is 'just another CPU hog' that competes with X, it's not a "true" X client. if you are after glxgears performance in this test then you'll get the best performance out of this by renicing X to +19 or even SCHED_BATCH. Several points on this... First, I don't think this is accelerated in the way you mean, the machine is a test server, with motherboard video using the 945G video driver. Given the limitations of the support in that setup, I don't think it qualified as "true 3D hardware," although I guess I could try using the vesafb version as a test. The 2nd thing I note is that on FC6 this scheduler seems to confuse 'top' to some degree, since the glxgears is shown as taking 51% of the CPU (one core), while the state breakdown shows about 73% in idle, waitio, and int. image attached. top by itself certainly cannot be trusted to give true representation of the cpu usage I'm afraid. It's not as convoluted as, say, trying to track memory usage of an application, but top's resolution being tied to HZ accounting makes it not reliable in that regard. After I upgrade the kernel and cfs to the absolute latest I'll repeat this, as well as test with vesafb, and my planned run under heavy load. I have a problem with your test case Bill. Its behaviour would depend on how gpu bound vs cpu bound vs accelerated vs non-accelerated your graphics card is. I get completely different results to those of the other testers given the different hardware configuration and I don't think my results are valuable. My problem with this testcase is - What would you define as "perfect" behaviour for your test case? It seems far too arbitrary. It was more intended to give an immediate feedback on gross behavior. On some old schedulers (2.4.x) it visibly ran one xterm after the other, while on 2.6.2[01] that behavior is gone and all schedulers give equal time as seen by the eye. Looking at the behavior with line and jump scroll, under load or not, X nice or nasty, allows a quick check on where the bad cases are if any exist. I intended it as a quick way to determine really, visibly, bad scheduling, not a a test for quantifying performance. The fact that fps varies by almost an order of magnitude with some earlier versions of the schedulers is certainly a red flag to me that there's a corner case, and something I care more about than glxgears will be inconsistent as well. Hopefully in that context, as a relatively quick way to try nice and load values, it's a useful tool. -- bill davidsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> CTO TMR Associates, Inc Doing interesting things with small computers since 1979 - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [REPORT] First glitch1 results, 2.6.21-rc7-git6-CFSv5 + SD 0.46
Con Kolivas wrote: On Friday 27 April 2007 08:00, Bill Davidsen wrote: Ingo Molnar wrote: * Ed Tomlinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: SD 0.46 1-2 FPS cfs v5 nice -19 219-233 FPS cfs v5 nice 0 1000-1996 cfs v5 nice -10 60-65 FPS the problem is, the glxgears portion of this test is an _inverse_ testcase. The reason? glxgears on true 3D hardware will _not_ use X, it will directly use the 3D driver of the kernel. So by renicing X to -19 you give the xterms more chance to show stuff - the performance of the glxgears will 'degrade' - but that is what you asked for: glxgears is 'just another CPU hog' that competes with X, it's not a true X client. if you are after glxgears performance in this test then you'll get the best performance out of this by renicing X to +19 or even SCHED_BATCH. Several points on this... First, I don't think this is accelerated in the way you mean, the machine is a test server, with motherboard video using the 945G video driver. Given the limitations of the support in that setup, I don't think it qualified as true 3D hardware, although I guess I could try using the vesafb version as a test. The 2nd thing I note is that on FC6 this scheduler seems to confuse 'top' to some degree, since the glxgears is shown as taking 51% of the CPU (one core), while the state breakdown shows about 73% in idle, waitio, and int. image attached. top by itself certainly cannot be trusted to give true representation of the cpu usage I'm afraid. It's not as convoluted as, say, trying to track memory usage of an application, but top's resolution being tied to HZ accounting makes it not reliable in that regard. After I upgrade the kernel and cfs to the absolute latest I'll repeat this, as well as test with vesafb, and my planned run under heavy load. I have a problem with your test case Bill. Its behaviour would depend on how gpu bound vs cpu bound vs accelerated vs non-accelerated your graphics card is. I get completely different results to those of the other testers given the different hardware configuration and I don't think my results are valuable. My problem with this testcase is - What would you define as perfect behaviour for your test case? It seems far too arbitrary. It was more intended to give an immediate feedback on gross behavior. On some old schedulers (2.4.x) it visibly ran one xterm after the other, while on 2.6.2[01] that behavior is gone and all schedulers give equal time as seen by the eye. Looking at the behavior with line and jump scroll, under load or not, X nice or nasty, allows a quick check on where the bad cases are if any exist. I intended it as a quick way to determine really, visibly, bad scheduling, not a a test for quantifying performance. The fact that fps varies by almost an order of magnitude with some earlier versions of the schedulers is certainly a red flag to me that there's a corner case, and something I care more about than glxgears will be inconsistent as well. Hopefully in that context, as a relatively quick way to try nice and load values, it's a useful tool. -- bill davidsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] CTO TMR Associates, Inc Doing interesting things with small computers since 1979 - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [REPORT] First "glitch1" results, 2.6.21-rc7-git6-CFSv5 + SD 0.46
On Thursday 26 April 2007 18:56, Con Kolivas wrote: > On Friday 27 April 2007 08:00, Bill Davidsen wrote: > > Ingo Molnar wrote: > > > * Ed Tomlinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >>> SD 0.46 1-2 FPS > > >>> cfs v5 nice -19 219-233 FPS > > >>> cfs v5 nice 0 1000-1996 > > >> > > >>cfs v5 nice -10 60-65 FPS > > > > > > the problem is, the glxgears portion of this test is an _inverse_ > > > testcase. > > > > > > The reason? glxgears on true 3D hardware will _not_ use X, it will > > > directly use the 3D driver of the kernel. So by renicing X to -19 you > > > give the xterms more chance to show stuff - the performance of the > > > glxgears will 'degrade' - but that is what you asked for: glxgears is > > > 'just another CPU hog' that competes with X, it's not a "true" X client. > > > > > > if you are after glxgears performance in this test then you'll get the > > > best performance out of this by renicing X to +19 or even SCHED_BATCH. > > > > Several points on this... > > > > First, I don't think this is accelerated in the way you mean, the > > machine is a test server, with motherboard video using the 945G video > > driver. Given the limitations of the support in that setup, I don't > > think it qualified as "true 3D hardware," although I guess I could try > > using the vesafb version as a test. > > > > The 2nd thing I note is that on FC6 this scheduler seems to confuse > > 'top' to some degree, since the glxgears is shown as taking 51% of the > > CPU (one core), while the state breakdown shows about 73% in idle, > > waitio, and int. image attached. > > top by itself certainly cannot be trusted to give true representation of the > cpu usage I'm afraid. It's not as convoluted as, say, trying to track memory > usage of an application, but top's resolution being tied to HZ accounting > makes it not reliable in that regard. > > > > After I upgrade the kernel and cfs to the absolute latest I'll repeat > > this, as well as test with vesafb, and my planned run under heavy load. > > I have a problem with your test case Bill. Its behaviour would depend on how > gpu bound vs cpu bound vs accelerated vs non-accelerated your graphics card > is. I get completely different results to those of the other testers given > the different hardware configuration and I don't think my results are > valuable. My problem with this testcase is - What would you define > as "perfect" behaviour for your test case? It seems far too arbitrary. Con, One thing I did not mention in all this is that renicing the glxgears process to -10 gets SD to give about 1000FPS, indeed you get most of this performance at -5 too. All in all SD does a very good job here. Get well soon! Ed - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [REPORT] First "glitch1" results, 2.6.21-rc7-git6-CFSv5 + SD 0.46
On Friday 27 April 2007 08:00, Bill Davidsen wrote: > Ingo Molnar wrote: > > * Ed Tomlinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >>> SD 0.46 1-2 FPS > >>> cfs v5 nice -19 219-233 FPS > >>> cfs v5 nice 0 1000-1996 > >> > >>cfs v5 nice -10 60-65 FPS > > > > the problem is, the glxgears portion of this test is an _inverse_ > > testcase. > > > > The reason? glxgears on true 3D hardware will _not_ use X, it will > > directly use the 3D driver of the kernel. So by renicing X to -19 you > > give the xterms more chance to show stuff - the performance of the > > glxgears will 'degrade' - but that is what you asked for: glxgears is > > 'just another CPU hog' that competes with X, it's not a "true" X client. > > > > if you are after glxgears performance in this test then you'll get the > > best performance out of this by renicing X to +19 or even SCHED_BATCH. > > Several points on this... > > First, I don't think this is accelerated in the way you mean, the > machine is a test server, with motherboard video using the 945G video > driver. Given the limitations of the support in that setup, I don't > think it qualified as "true 3D hardware," although I guess I could try > using the vesafb version as a test. > > The 2nd thing I note is that on FC6 this scheduler seems to confuse > 'top' to some degree, since the glxgears is shown as taking 51% of the > CPU (one core), while the state breakdown shows about 73% in idle, > waitio, and int. image attached. top by itself certainly cannot be trusted to give true representation of the cpu usage I'm afraid. It's not as convoluted as, say, trying to track memory usage of an application, but top's resolution being tied to HZ accounting makes it not reliable in that regard. > > After I upgrade the kernel and cfs to the absolute latest I'll repeat > this, as well as test with vesafb, and my planned run under heavy load. I have a problem with your test case Bill. Its behaviour would depend on how gpu bound vs cpu bound vs accelerated vs non-accelerated your graphics card is. I get completely different results to those of the other testers given the different hardware configuration and I don't think my results are valuable. My problem with this testcase is - What would you define as "perfect" behaviour for your test case? It seems far too arbitrary. -- -ck - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [REPORT] First glitch1 results, 2.6.21-rc7-git6-CFSv5 + SD 0.46
On Friday 27 April 2007 08:00, Bill Davidsen wrote: Ingo Molnar wrote: * Ed Tomlinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: SD 0.46 1-2 FPS cfs v5 nice -19 219-233 FPS cfs v5 nice 0 1000-1996 cfs v5 nice -10 60-65 FPS the problem is, the glxgears portion of this test is an _inverse_ testcase. The reason? glxgears on true 3D hardware will _not_ use X, it will directly use the 3D driver of the kernel. So by renicing X to -19 you give the xterms more chance to show stuff - the performance of the glxgears will 'degrade' - but that is what you asked for: glxgears is 'just another CPU hog' that competes with X, it's not a true X client. if you are after glxgears performance in this test then you'll get the best performance out of this by renicing X to +19 or even SCHED_BATCH. Several points on this... First, I don't think this is accelerated in the way you mean, the machine is a test server, with motherboard video using the 945G video driver. Given the limitations of the support in that setup, I don't think it qualified as true 3D hardware, although I guess I could try using the vesafb version as a test. The 2nd thing I note is that on FC6 this scheduler seems to confuse 'top' to some degree, since the glxgears is shown as taking 51% of the CPU (one core), while the state breakdown shows about 73% in idle, waitio, and int. image attached. top by itself certainly cannot be trusted to give true representation of the cpu usage I'm afraid. It's not as convoluted as, say, trying to track memory usage of an application, but top's resolution being tied to HZ accounting makes it not reliable in that regard. After I upgrade the kernel and cfs to the absolute latest I'll repeat this, as well as test with vesafb, and my planned run under heavy load. I have a problem with your test case Bill. Its behaviour would depend on how gpu bound vs cpu bound vs accelerated vs non-accelerated your graphics card is. I get completely different results to those of the other testers given the different hardware configuration and I don't think my results are valuable. My problem with this testcase is - What would you define as perfect behaviour for your test case? It seems far too arbitrary. -- -ck - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [REPORT] First glitch1 results, 2.6.21-rc7-git6-CFSv5 + SD 0.46
On Thursday 26 April 2007 18:56, Con Kolivas wrote: On Friday 27 April 2007 08:00, Bill Davidsen wrote: Ingo Molnar wrote: * Ed Tomlinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: SD 0.46 1-2 FPS cfs v5 nice -19 219-233 FPS cfs v5 nice 0 1000-1996 cfs v5 nice -10 60-65 FPS the problem is, the glxgears portion of this test is an _inverse_ testcase. The reason? glxgears on true 3D hardware will _not_ use X, it will directly use the 3D driver of the kernel. So by renicing X to -19 you give the xterms more chance to show stuff - the performance of the glxgears will 'degrade' - but that is what you asked for: glxgears is 'just another CPU hog' that competes with X, it's not a true X client. if you are after glxgears performance in this test then you'll get the best performance out of this by renicing X to +19 or even SCHED_BATCH. Several points on this... First, I don't think this is accelerated in the way you mean, the machine is a test server, with motherboard video using the 945G video driver. Given the limitations of the support in that setup, I don't think it qualified as true 3D hardware, although I guess I could try using the vesafb version as a test. The 2nd thing I note is that on FC6 this scheduler seems to confuse 'top' to some degree, since the glxgears is shown as taking 51% of the CPU (one core), while the state breakdown shows about 73% in idle, waitio, and int. image attached. top by itself certainly cannot be trusted to give true representation of the cpu usage I'm afraid. It's not as convoluted as, say, trying to track memory usage of an application, but top's resolution being tied to HZ accounting makes it not reliable in that regard. After I upgrade the kernel and cfs to the absolute latest I'll repeat this, as well as test with vesafb, and my planned run under heavy load. I have a problem with your test case Bill. Its behaviour would depend on how gpu bound vs cpu bound vs accelerated vs non-accelerated your graphics card is. I get completely different results to those of the other testers given the different hardware configuration and I don't think my results are valuable. My problem with this testcase is - What would you define as perfect behaviour for your test case? It seems far too arbitrary. Con, One thing I did not mention in all this is that renicing the glxgears process to -10 gets SD to give about 1000FPS, indeed you get most of this performance at -5 too. All in all SD does a very good job here. Get well soon! Ed - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [REPORT] First "glitch1" results, 2.6.21-rc7-git6-CFSv5 + SD 0.46
* Ed Tomlinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > SD 0.46 1-2 FPS > > cfs v5 nice -19 219-233 FPS > > cfs v5 nice 0 1000-1996 >cfs v5 nice -10 60-65 FPS the problem is, the glxgears portion of this test is an _inverse_ testcase. The reason? glxgears on true 3D hardware will _not_ use X, it will directly use the 3D driver of the kernel. So by renicing X to -19 you give the xterms more chance to show stuff - the performance of the glxgears will 'degrade' - but that is what you asked for: glxgears is 'just another CPU hog' that competes with X, it's not a "true" X client. if you are after glxgears performance in this test then you'll get the best performance out of this by renicing X to +19 or even SCHED_BATCH. Ingo - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [REPORT] First glitch1 results, 2.6.21-rc7-git6-CFSv5 + SD 0.46
* Ed Tomlinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: SD 0.46 1-2 FPS cfs v5 nice -19 219-233 FPS cfs v5 nice 0 1000-1996 cfs v5 nice -10 60-65 FPS the problem is, the glxgears portion of this test is an _inverse_ testcase. The reason? glxgears on true 3D hardware will _not_ use X, it will directly use the 3D driver of the kernel. So by renicing X to -19 you give the xterms more chance to show stuff - the performance of the glxgears will 'degrade' - but that is what you asked for: glxgears is 'just another CPU hog' that competes with X, it's not a true X client. if you are after glxgears performance in this test then you'll get the best performance out of this by renicing X to +19 or even SCHED_BATCH. Ingo - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [REPORT] First "glitch1" results, 2.6.21-rc7-git6-CFSv5 + SD 0.46
On Monday 23 April 2007 19:45, Ed Tomlinson wrote: > On Monday 23 April 2007 17:57, Bill Davidsen wrote: > > I am not sure a binary attachment will go thru, I will move to the web > > ste if not. > > I did a quick try of this script here. > > With SD 0.46 with X at nice 0 I was getting 1-2 frames per second. I decided > to try cfs v5. > The option disable auto renicing did not work so many threads other than X > are now at -19... > > SD 0.46 1-2 FPS > cfs v5 nice -19 219-233 FPS > cfs v5 nice 0 1000-1996 cfs v5 nice -10 60-65 FPS > > Looks like, in this case, nice -19 for X is NOT a good idea. > > Kernel is 2.6.20.7 (gentoo) UP amd64 with HZ 300 voluntary prempt (a fully > premptable kernel eventually > locks up switching between 32 and 64 apps) Thanks Ed - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [REPORT] First "glitch1" results, 2.6.21-rc7-git6-CFSv5 + SD 0.46
On Monday 23 April 2007 17:57, Bill Davidsen wrote: > I am not sure a binary attachment will go thru, I will move to the web > ste if not. I did a quick try of this script here. With SD 0.46 with X at nice 0 I was getting 1-2 frames per second. I decided to try cfs v5. The option disable auto renicing did not work so many threads other than X are now at -19... SD 0.46 1-2 FPS cfs v5 nice -19 219-233 FPS cfs v5 nice 0 1000-1996 Looks like, in this case, nice -19 for X is NOT a good idea. Kernel is 2.6.20.7 (gentoo) UP amd64 with HZ 300 voluntary prempt (a fully premptable kernel eventually locks up switching between 32 and 64 apps) Thanks, Ed Tomlinson - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [REPORT] First glitch1 results, 2.6.21-rc7-git6-CFSv5 + SD 0.46
On Monday 23 April 2007 17:57, Bill Davidsen wrote: I am not sure a binary attachment will go thru, I will move to the web ste if not. I did a quick try of this script here. With SD 0.46 with X at nice 0 I was getting 1-2 frames per second. I decided to try cfs v5. The option disable auto renicing did not work so many threads other than X are now at -19... SD 0.46 1-2 FPS cfs v5 nice -19 219-233 FPS cfs v5 nice 0 1000-1996 Looks like, in this case, nice -19 for X is NOT a good idea. Kernel is 2.6.20.7 (gentoo) UP amd64 with HZ 300 voluntary prempt (a fully premptable kernel eventually locks up switching between 32 and 64 apps) Thanks, Ed Tomlinson - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [REPORT] First glitch1 results, 2.6.21-rc7-git6-CFSv5 + SD 0.46
On Monday 23 April 2007 19:45, Ed Tomlinson wrote: On Monday 23 April 2007 17:57, Bill Davidsen wrote: I am not sure a binary attachment will go thru, I will move to the web ste if not. I did a quick try of this script here. With SD 0.46 with X at nice 0 I was getting 1-2 frames per second. I decided to try cfs v5. The option disable auto renicing did not work so many threads other than X are now at -19... SD 0.46 1-2 FPS cfs v5 nice -19 219-233 FPS cfs v5 nice 0 1000-1996 cfs v5 nice -10 60-65 FPS Looks like, in this case, nice -19 for X is NOT a good idea. Kernel is 2.6.20.7 (gentoo) UP amd64 with HZ 300 voluntary prempt (a fully premptable kernel eventually locks up switching between 32 and 64 apps) Thanks Ed - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
