Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
Sorry, sorry. The lists are open. Please tell us if mailman still bothers. On Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 03:46:53PM -0400, Martin K. Petersen wrote: > > "Jens" == Jens Axboe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Jens> First one gets a mail saying that the mail sent is queued for > Jens> moderator approval, since I'm not on the list. Then later a > Jens> second mail arrives, saying the mail has been rejected by the > Jens> moderator. > > Yep. Same here. Latest and greatest... > > ---8<--- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Your message to linux-lvm awaits moderator approval > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 22:02:40 +0200 > > Your mail to 'linux-lvm' with the subject > > Re: [linux-lvm] *** ANNOUNCEMENT *** LVM 0.9.1 Beta 7 available at > www.sistina.com > > Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval. > ---8<--- > > Now, I held my breath until the following day... > > ---8<--- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Request to mailing list linux-lvm rejected > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 17:32:36 +0200 > > Your request to the linux-lvm mailing list > > Posting of your message titled "Re: [linux-lvm] *** ANNOUNCEMENT > *** LVM 0.9.1 Beta 7 available at www.sistina.com" > > has been rejected by the list moderator. The moderator gave the > following reason for rejecting your request: > > "Non-members are not allowed to post messages to this list." > ---8<--- > > Since there is such a long delay between the two mails, it's obvious > that there is human intervention involved. And when an on-topic mail > is rejected by the moderator, well... go figure. > > And this isn't the first time this has happened to me and several > others. By far... > > -- > Martin K. Petersen, Principal Linux Consultant, Linuxcare, Inc. > [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.linuxcare.com/ > SGI XFS for Linux Developer, http://oss.sgi.com/projects/xfs/ > > - > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in > the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html > Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/ -- Regards, Heinz-- The LVM Guy -- *** Software bugs are stupid. Nevertheless it needs not so stupid people to solve them *** =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Heinz Mauelshagen Sistina Software Inc. Senior Consultant/Developer Am Sonnenhang 11 56242 Marienrachdorf Germany [EMAIL PROTECTED] +49 2626 141200 FAX 924446 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
On Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 03:35:43PM -0300, Rik van Riel wrote: > On Thu, 19 Apr 2001, AJ Lewis wrote: > > > It is unfortunate that this could not have been resolved in a more mature > > manner. Saying "I don't like the way somebody is doing something. I won't > > bother to talk to them about it, I'll just flame them and try to undermine > > their work." is not acceptable. It would have been nice if you'd actually > > tried to work this out instead of handling it this way. > > We tried, but the last time we had something to say about your > code the message wasn't allowed on your list. As mentioned in other mails multiple times: The reject answer contained information about how to become a subscriber. Our list admin just hated spam and now he has pain in the neck ;-))) The lists at sistina.com are completely open now anyway :) > > Now that the code is in the kernel, we are of the opinion that > it is no longer acceptable to censor messages when they are too > critical about the LVM source code. This is completely misleading! There has *never* been censoring in place! It was just rejects for mail from non subscribers who actually could subscribe in a seconds effort. So please let us stop claiming wrong things here. Thanks! > This beast is in the kernel, > now we'd better be allowed to talk about the source code and > maintain the thing. Yes, yes, yes!!! Thanks for all your future appreciated patch and advice input in advance. > > regards, > > Rik > -- > Linux MM bugzilla: http://linux-mm.org/bugzilla.shtml > > Virtual memory is like a game you can't win; > However, without VM there's truly nothing to lose... > > http://www.surriel.com/ > http://www.conectiva.com/ http://distro.conectiva.com/ > > - > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in > the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html > Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/ -- Regards, Heinz-- The LVM Guy -- *** Software bugs are stupid. Nevertheless it needs not so stupid people to solve them *** =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Heinz Mauelshagen Sistina Software Inc. Senior Consultant/Developer Am Sonnenhang 11 56242 Marienrachdorf Germany [EMAIL PROTECTED] +49 2626 141200 FAX 924446 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
On Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 08:48:19PM +0200, Jens Axboe wrote: > On Thu, Apr 19 2001, AJ Lewis wrote: > > It is unfortunate that this could not have been resolved in a more mature > > manner. Saying "I don't like the way somebody is doing something. I won't > > bother to talk to them about it, I'll just flame them and try to undermine > > their work." is not acceptable. It would have been nice if you'd actually > > tried to work this out instead of handling it this way. > > LVM concerns us all now that it is not just an addon, but actually a > part of the kernel. As I stated before: there's many more people with lots of expertise *now* and we appreciate that! > Rejecting mails and reports from users and > developers who just might be able to lend you a hand fixing bugs, is not > just counter productive it's downright rude! As our (former) list maintainer Ben Lutgens stated: The rejetc answer contained information how to subscribe to the list which is a seconds deal ;-) Anyway: all LVM related lists at sistina.com are now completely open! People already send hints to spam filters; thank you guys! > > Besides, I didn't think the posting was flame material at all. If > nothing else, it's a wake up call. We take it like this and we take it serious that you got annoyed, no matter what the actual reason is. I think the facts that the sistina.com lists are open to everybody now *and* that we will release policies to allow write access to our CVS repository for major contributors *and* that we'll have a set of (small) patches in the next couple of days to get vanilla updated will help a lot. Thanks for the wake up call ;-) and all your support! > > -- > Jens Axboe > > - > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in > the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html > Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/ -- Regards, Heinz-- The LVM Guy -- *** Software bugs are stupid. Nevertheless it needs not so stupid people to solve them *** =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Heinz Mauelshagen Sistina Software Inc. Senior Consultant/Developer Am Sonnenhang 11 56242 Marienrachdorf Germany [EMAIL PROTECTED] +49 2626 141200 FAX 924446 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
On Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 08:48:19PM +0200, Jens Axboe wrote: On Thu, Apr 19 2001, AJ Lewis wrote: It is unfortunate that this could not have been resolved in a more mature manner. Saying I don't like the way somebody is doing something. I won't bother to talk to them about it, I'll just flame them and try to undermine their work. is not acceptable. It would have been nice if you'd actually tried to work this out instead of handling it this way. LVM concerns us all now that it is not just an addon, but actually a part of the kernel. As I stated before: there's many more people with lots of expertise *now* and we appreciate that! Rejecting mails and reports from users and developers who just might be able to lend you a hand fixing bugs, is not just counter productive it's downright rude! As our (former) list maintainer Ben Lutgens stated: The rejetc answer contained information how to subscribe to the list which is a seconds deal ;-) Anyway: all LVM related lists at sistina.com are now completely open! People already send hints to spam filters; thank you guys! Besides, I didn't think the posting was flame material at all. If nothing else, it's a wake up call. We take it like this and we take it serious that you got annoyed, no matter what the actual reason is. I think the facts that the sistina.com lists are open to everybody now *and* that we will release policies to allow write access to our CVS repository for major contributors *and* that we'll have a set of (small) patches in the next couple of days to get vanilla updated will help a lot. Thanks for the wake up call ;-) and all your support! -- Jens Axboe - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/ -- Regards, Heinz-- The LVM Guy -- *** Software bugs are stupid. Nevertheless it needs not so stupid people to solve them *** =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Heinz Mauelshagen Sistina Software Inc. Senior Consultant/Developer Am Sonnenhang 11 56242 Marienrachdorf Germany [EMAIL PROTECTED] +49 2626 141200 FAX 924446 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
Sorry, sorry. The lists are open. Please tell us if mailman still bothers. On Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 03:46:53PM -0400, Martin K. Petersen wrote: Jens == Jens Axboe [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Jens First one gets a mail saying that the mail sent is queued for Jens moderator approval, since I'm not on the list. Then later a Jens second mail arrives, saying the mail has been rejected by the Jens moderator. Yep. Same here. Latest and greatest... ---8--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Your message to linux-lvm awaits moderator approval To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 22:02:40 +0200 Your mail to 'linux-lvm' with the subject Re: [linux-lvm] *** ANNOUNCEMENT *** LVM 0.9.1 Beta 7 available at www.sistina.com Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval. ---8--- Now, I held my breath until the following day... ---8--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Request to mailing list linux-lvm rejected To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 17:32:36 +0200 Your request to the linux-lvm mailing list Posting of your message titled Re: [linux-lvm] *** ANNOUNCEMENT *** LVM 0.9.1 Beta 7 available at www.sistina.com has been rejected by the list moderator. The moderator gave the following reason for rejecting your request: Non-members are not allowed to post messages to this list. ---8--- Since there is such a long delay between the two mails, it's obvious that there is human intervention involved. And when an on-topic mail is rejected by the moderator, well... go figure. And this isn't the first time this has happened to me and several others. By far... -- Martin K. Petersen, Principal Linux Consultant, Linuxcare, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.linuxcare.com/ SGI XFS for Linux Developer, http://oss.sgi.com/projects/xfs/ - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/ -- Regards, Heinz-- The LVM Guy -- *** Software bugs are stupid. Nevertheless it needs not so stupid people to solve them *** =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Heinz Mauelshagen Sistina Software Inc. Senior Consultant/Developer Am Sonnenhang 11 56242 Marienrachdorf Germany [EMAIL PROTECTED] +49 2626 141200 FAX 924446 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
On Fri, Apr 20, 2001 at 08:25:15PM +0200, Jens Axboe wrote: > On Fri, Apr 20 2001, Alan Cox wrote: > > > We will announce when they are available ASAP and would appreciate if > > > people like Alan Cox, Andrea Arcangeli and Andreas Dilger > > > could check them *before* we start submitting them to Linus. > > > > I'll be glad to help look over them. > > Same here, the important thing is that we actually get this patch flow > going. And hopefully in the future as well :) Thanks and yep. We learned that leasson now. Hopefully ;-) > > -- > Jens Axboe -- Regards, Heinz-- The LVM Guy -- *** Software bugs are stupid. Nevertheless it needs not so stupid people to solve them *** =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Heinz Mauelshagen Sistina Software Inc. Senior Consultant/Developer Am Sonnenhang 11 56242 Marienrachdorf Germany [EMAIL PROTECTED] +49 2626 141200 FAX 924446 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
On Fri, Apr 20, 2001 at 07:04:21PM +0100, Alan Cox wrote: > > We will announce when they are available ASAP and would appreciate if > > people like Alan Cox, Andrea Arcangeli and Andreas Dilger > > could check them *before* we start submitting them to Linus. > > I'll be glad to help look over them. Thanks Alan :-) -- Regards, Heinz-- The LVM Guy -- *** Software bugs are stupid. Nevertheless it needs not so stupid people to solve them *** =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Heinz Mauelshagen Sistina Software Inc. Senior Consultant/Developer Am Sonnenhang 11 56242 Marienrachdorf Germany [EMAIL PROTECTED] +49 2626 141200 FAX 924446 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
On Fri, Apr 20, 2001 at 07:04:21PM +0100, Alan Cox wrote: We will announce when they are available ASAP and would appreciate if people like Alan Cox, Andrea Arcangeli and Andreas Dilger could check them *before* we start submitting them to Linus. I'll be glad to help look over them. Thanks Alan :-) -- Regards, Heinz-- The LVM Guy -- *** Software bugs are stupid. Nevertheless it needs not so stupid people to solve them *** =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Heinz Mauelshagen Sistina Software Inc. Senior Consultant/Developer Am Sonnenhang 11 56242 Marienrachdorf Germany [EMAIL PROTECTED] +49 2626 141200 FAX 924446 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
On Fri, Apr 20, 2001 at 08:25:15PM +0200, Jens Axboe wrote: On Fri, Apr 20 2001, Alan Cox wrote: We will announce when they are available ASAP and would appreciate if people like Alan Cox, Andrea Arcangeli and Andreas Dilger could check them *before* we start submitting them to Linus. I'll be glad to help look over them. Same here, the important thing is that we actually get this patch flow going. And hopefully in the future as well :) Thanks and yep. We learned that leasson now. Hopefully ;-) -- Jens Axboe -- Regards, Heinz-- The LVM Guy -- *** Software bugs are stupid. Nevertheless it needs not so stupid people to solve them *** =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Heinz Mauelshagen Sistina Software Inc. Senior Consultant/Developer Am Sonnenhang 11 56242 Marienrachdorf Germany [EMAIL PROTECTED] +49 2626 141200 FAX 924446 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
On Sat, 21 Apr 2001, Matti Aarnio wrote: > If you are PERL speaker (or can at least comprehend perl's > m(atch) expressions), here is URL to info about it, plus > the actual live running filter-set: > > http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html > > Go to the end of the page, and you see link for the actual > filter code used at the VGER's Majordomo. To get the filter set used by NL.linux.org: cvs -d :pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/home/CVS login password: cvs cvs -d :pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/home/CVS checkout spamfilter You can also use the regexps and the script in this CVS tree to build your own majordomo.cf automatically whenever new regexps get added. regards, Rik -- Virtual memory is like a game you can't win; However, without VM there's truly nothing to lose... http://www.surriel.com/ http://www.conectiva.com/ http://distro.conectiva.com.br/ - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
On Sat, 21 Apr 2001, Matti Aarnio wrote: If you are PERL speaker (or can at least comprehend perl's m(atch) expressions), here is URL to info about it, plus the actual live running filter-set: http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Go to the end of the page, and you see link for the actual filter code used at the VGER's Majordomo. To get the filter set used by NL.linux.org: cvs -d :pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/home/CVS login password: cvs cvs -d :pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/home/CVS checkout spamfilter You can also use the regexps and the script in this CVS tree to build your own majordomo.cf automatically whenever new regexps get added. regards, Rik -- Virtual memory is like a game you can't win; However, without VM there's truly nothing to lose... http://www.surriel.com/ http://www.conectiva.com/ http://distro.conectiva.com.br/ - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
On Fri, Apr 20, 2001 at 08:36:37AM -0400, Doug McNaught wrote: [ not much at all spams at linux-kernel ... ] > > That's partly because davem and Matti are rabid anti-spam weasels and > very good at it. ;) There are all kinds of filters (including > content-based ones) on l-k, otherwise we'd be inundated in processed > pork... > I would say it is SOLELY because we are quite good at it. Some insidious small surprises get thru every now and then, and we really can't block them all without endangering the freedom of dogfight (in between on-topic things) at the list. If you are PERL speaker (or can at least comprehend perl's m(atch) expressions), here is URL to info about it, plus the actual live running filter-set: http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Go to the end of the page, and you see link for the actual filter code used at the VGER's Majordomo. I can only hope that when a legitimate posting goes to list-owner approval, the list-owner would either approve the thing, or inform the message originator that they had used tabooed expressions, and should avoid it in the future to get thru. (I get a lot of junk, linux-kernel-owner gets A LOT MORE ...) > -Doug /Matti Aarnio - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
On Fri, Apr 20 2001, Alan Cox wrote: > > We will announce when they are available ASAP and would appreciate if > > people like Alan Cox, Andrea Arcangeli and Andreas Dilger > > could check them *before* we start submitting them to Linus. > > I'll be glad to help look over them. Same here, the important thing is that we actually get this patch flow going. And hopefully in the future as well :) -- Jens Axboe - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
> We will announce when they are available ASAP and would appreciate if > people like Alan Cox, Andrea Arcangeli and Andreas Dilger > could check them *before* we start submitting them to Linus. I'll be glad to help look over them. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [linux-lvm] Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
Previously Heinz J. Mauelshagen wrote: > Linux LVM is a Sistina GPL project and there's no danger at all > that we want to change its GPL nature! I think the general sentiment is that LVM is a Linux project, currently being managed by Sistina. Also, since you have merged patches from other you no longer can change the license since Sistina is not the sole copyright holder. Wichert. -- / Generally uninteresting signature - ignore at your convenience \ | [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.liacs.nl/~wichert/ | | 1024D/2FA3BC2D 576E 100B 518D 2F16 36B0 2805 3CB8 9250 2FA3 BC2D | - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
Having just a couple of days of vacation I got informed today that a number of people got pissed off and decided to open a new Linux LVM mailing list <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>. Facts people complained about included: 1. people got dropped from the list 2. messages bouncing 3. lack of (small) LVM patches to the Linux kernel 4. submitted patches being ignored WRT points 1 and 2: --- our Linux LVM mailing list <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> is now completely open in order to avoid such kind of problems in the future. We apologize for any kind of trouble this caused in the past! We kindly ask everybody to stay at <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> or to join it in order to avoid a mailing list split. Thanks a lot! WRT point 3: we will regard the Linus kernel as *the* repository for LVM driver changes rather than our public CVS repository from now on! In order to ease this migration we are working to create a bunch of small patches to submit them to the comunity. We will announce when they are available ASAP and would appreciate if people like Alan Cox, Andrea Arcangeli and Andreas Dilger could check them *before* we start submitting them to Linus. Thanks a lot in advance for your support. WRT point 4: a lot of patches send in by the comunity have been included in the actual LVM source. We appreciate all your valuable related work! Nevertheless about 30 patches which would have changed too much have been postponed for LVM 1.1 *because* we are in a feature freeze since a couple of weeks heading to a production stable LVM 1.0. The submitters have been informed about this fact. We will make these postponed patches accessable to everybody and will discuss the status of future patches in the public on the list from now on in order to avoid any further lack of information here. None of the patches which showed up on the lvm mailing lists have been discarded without notice! General statement: -- Linux LVM is a Sistina GPL project and there's no danger at all that we want to change its GPL nature! We apologize for any inconveniences and kindly ask everybody to continue to help us making a better Linux LVM. -- Regards, Heinz-- The LVM Guy -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Heinz Mauelshagen Sistina Software Inc. Senior Consultant/Developer Am Sonnenhang 11 56242 Marienrachdorf Germany [EMAIL PROTECTED] +49 2626 141200 FAX 924446 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
Miles Lane <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Gosh, this seems like a bit of a red herring, IMHO. Do you think the > LKML gets a "lot" of spam? Or, how about the linux-usb-devel or > linux-hotplug-devel lists? None of these lists are moderated and the > occasional spam gets sent to them, but I haven't noticed there being > enough spam to hinder the usefulness of these lists. That's partly because davem and Matti are rabid anti-spam weasels and very good at it. ;) There are all kinds of filters (including content-based ones) on l-k, otherwise we'd be inundated in processed pork... -Doug -- The rain man gave me two cures; he said jump right in, The first was Texas medicine--the second was just railroad gin, And like a fool I mixed them, and it strangled up my mind, Now people just get uglier, and I got no sense of time... --Dylan - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [linux-lvm] Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
On Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 04:09:32PM -0400, Jeff Garzik wrote: > AJ Lewis wrote: > > Ok, the issue here is that we're trying to get a release out and so anything > > that majorly changes the code is getting shunted aside for the moment. It > > would be stupid to just add everything that comes in on the ML without > > review. Linus does the exact same thing. I've said this before to you > > Andreas, but apparently you feel that you should have final say on whether > > your patches go in or not. > > > As far as getting patches into the stock kernel, we've been sending patches > > to Linus for over a month now, and none of them have made it in. Maybe > > someone has some pointers on how we get our code past his filters. > > Read Documentation/SubmittingPatches, and also listen to kernel hackers > who know the block layer and want to fix lvm. OK, we're in the process of splitting the big patch up into nice clean small patches to go to Linus. Hopefully this should be done today, or very shortly at least. patrick - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
> Hmm...i guess there is a communication issue here. It sounds like the > message that our ML server was sending was misleading. We were not > rejecting mail because of content. The ML server was rejecting it because > the address was not subscribed. Our idea was that we don't want spam. > If it's completely unmoderated, then we will get a *lot* of spam. I do not think there is a miscommunication here. First, someone gets an e-mail saying that your message "waits for moderator's approval". Then you get a message saying that your "message was rejected by the moderator because you are not subscribed to the list". Mind it, those were bug reports, not spam. I took your beta code, tested it, saw real bugs and problems and wrote bug reports BECAUSE YOU INCOURAGE PEOPLE TO DO SO AND GIVE THOSE EMAILS IN THE DOCUMENTATION!!! There is no place in the source tree docs that say the list is moderated. It it had said so, I would have not wasted my time. I felt really pissed off for waisting my time. BTW, other e-mails given in the documentation just bounce. If you do not want people sending bug reports, update your documentation. It is not polite to make people waste their time! -- Constantine Gavrilov Linux Leader Optibase Ltd 7 Shenkar St, Herzliya 46120, Israel Phone: (972-9)-970-9140 Fax: (972-9)-958-6099 - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [linux-lvm] Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
Luca Berra wrote: > we have some serous problems here. [...] > a better lvm (still buggy according to many kernel hackers, but better still), > which does not get into the kernel for communication reasons. (Alan can you help? > there is a lot of stuff that goes in -ac before going to mainstream) I do not think this is a communication problem at all, but a clear lack of understanding (perhaps willful) on the part of the "LVM maintainers" about how to get things into the kernel. linux/Documentation/SubmittingPatches exist to bonk people on the head if they are screwing up, and it sounds like such is occurring now. Quite simply, 1) Split up your patches. How many times does it have to be said? Think ONE CHANGE, ONE PATCH. Big patches full of tons of disparate changes are impossible to review. 2) (parroting Linus) Open source is about lack of control, not hoarding code and lording over it. That's why Linus will take a patch from Jens or another knowledgeable person who says "this LVM code is broken, -here- is a fix." -- regardless of who the "official" maintainer of the code is listed as... [Luca, this is not directed at you, I just used this message as an opportunity to spout :)] -- Jeff Garzik | "The universe is like a safe to which there is a Building 1024 | combination -- but the combination is locked up MandrakeSoft | in the safe."-- Peter DeVries - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [linux-lvm] Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
Fuck! I hate these things early in the morning. what gets me extremely pissed in the whole business is that i don't believe that splitting the mailing list is the solution to LVM problems. Escpecially since we have a number of lusers of lwm at the time being. I believe sistina is mostly at fault there, not for the mailing list issue (i really don't believe people getting kicked out, while the moderation messages are probably due to mailman braindamage) but for political reasons (stop making it look as a sistina-only project, it pisses everyone) we have some serous problems here. an lvm in the kernel which is badly broken(tm) a better lvm (still buggy according to many kernel hackers, but better still), which does not get into the kernel for communication reasons. (Alan can you help? there is a lot of stuff that goes in -ac before going to mainstream) A development model where only sistina people have access to cvs. This is bad, has the only effect of pissing off people like Andreas which has been feeding patches and good ideas for many months now, besides it leads to people having their own lvm tree, so everybody is testing their development version, which has nothing to do with the version in the goddamned kernel. now what i propose is (some has already been said): lets's vote for which mailing list we want to keep (and everybody accept the result) open the goddam cvs to hackers that request access to it, you can use different branches and do code freezes with cvs, so it won't hurt releases schedules. try to ship the most evident bugfixes from cvs to linus, please all long-time kernel hakcers who got involved in this help do this. open up also the decision process (IOP 11 in beta5 and IOP 10 back in beta6 could not have happened if somebody eles knew about the IOP change.) Regards, L. (Sorry for the big CC list, but i dunno who is subscribed to what anymore) -- Luca Berra -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Communication Media & Services S.r.l. /"\ \ / ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN XAGAINST HTML MAIL / \ - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [linux-lvm] Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
Fuck! I hate these things early in the morning. what gets me extremely pissed in the whole business is that i don't believe that splitting the mailing list is the solution to LVM problems. Escpecially since we have a number of lusers of lwm at the time being. I believe sistina is mostly at fault there, not for the mailing list issue (i really don't believe people getting kicked out, while the moderation messages are probably due to mailman braindamage) but for political reasons (stop making it look as a sistina-only project, it pisses everyone) we have some serous problems here. an lvm in the kernel which is badly broken(tm) a better lvm (still buggy according to many kernel hackers, but better still), which does not get into the kernel for communication reasons. (Alan can you help? there is a lot of stuff that goes in -ac before going to mainstream) A development model where only sistina people have access to cvs. This is bad, has the only effect of pissing off people like Andreas which has been feeding patches and good ideas for many months now, besides it leads to people having their own lvm tree, so everybody is testing their development version, which has nothing to do with the version in the goddamned kernel. now what i propose is (some has already been said): lets's vote for which mailing list we want to keep (and everybody accept the result) open the goddam cvs to hackers that request access to it, you can use different branches and do code freezes with cvs, so it won't hurt releases schedules. try to ship the most evident bugfixes from cvs to linus, please all long-time kernel hakcers who got involved in this help do this. open up also the decision process (IOP 11 in beta5 and IOP 10 back in beta6 could not have happened if somebody eles knew about the IOP change.) Regards, L. (Sorry for the big CC list, but i dunno who is subscribed to what anymore) -- Luca Berra -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Communication Media Services S.r.l. /"\ \ / ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN XAGAINST HTML MAIL / \ - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [linux-lvm] Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
Luca Berra wrote: we have some serous problems here. [...] a better lvm (still buggy according to many kernel hackers, but better still), which does not get into the kernel for communication reasons. (Alan can you help? there is a lot of stuff that goes in -ac before going to mainstream) I do not think this is a communication problem at all, but a clear lack of understanding (perhaps willful) on the part of the "LVM maintainers" about how to get things into the kernel. linux/Documentation/SubmittingPatches exist to bonk people on the head if they are screwing up, and it sounds like such is occurring now. Quite simply, 1) Split up your patches. How many times does it have to be said? Think ONE CHANGE, ONE PATCH. Big patches full of tons of disparate changes are impossible to review. 2) (parroting Linus) Open source is about lack of control, not hoarding code and lording over it. That's why Linus will take a patch from Jens or another knowledgeable person who says "this LVM code is broken, -here- is a fix." -- regardless of who the "official" maintainer of the code is listed as... [Luca, this is not directed at you, I just used this message as an opportunity to spout :)] -- Jeff Garzik | "The universe is like a safe to which there is a Building 1024 | combination -- but the combination is locked up MandrakeSoft | in the safe."-- Peter DeVries - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
Hmm...i guess there is a communication issue here. It sounds like the message that our ML server was sending was misleading. We were not rejecting mail because of content. The ML server was rejecting it because the address was not subscribed. Our idea was that we don't want spam. If it's completely unmoderated, then we will get a *lot* of spam. I do not think there is a miscommunication here. First, someone gets an e-mail saying that your message "waits for moderator's approval". Then you get a message saying that your "message was rejected by the moderator because you are not subscribed to the list". Mind it, those were bug reports, not spam. I took your beta code, tested it, saw real bugs and problems and wrote bug reports BECAUSE YOU INCOURAGE PEOPLE TO DO SO AND GIVE THOSE EMAILS IN THE DOCUMENTATION!!! There is no place in the source tree docs that say the list is moderated. It it had said so, I would have not wasted my time. I felt really pissed off for waisting my time. BTW, other e-mails given in the documentation just bounce. If you do not want people sending bug reports, update your documentation. It is not polite to make people waste their time! -- Constantine Gavrilov Linux Leader Optibase Ltd 7 Shenkar St, Herzliya 46120, Israel Phone: (972-9)-970-9140 Fax: (972-9)-958-6099 - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [linux-lvm] Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
On Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 04:09:32PM -0400, Jeff Garzik wrote: AJ Lewis wrote: Ok, the issue here is that we're trying to get a release out and so anything that majorly changes the code is getting shunted aside for the moment. It would be stupid to just add everything that comes in on the ML without review. Linus does the exact same thing. I've said this before to you Andreas, but apparently you feel that you should have final say on whether your patches go in or not. As far as getting patches into the stock kernel, we've been sending patches to Linus for over a month now, and none of them have made it in. Maybe someone has some pointers on how we get our code past his filters. Read Documentation/SubmittingPatches, and also listen to kernel hackers who know the block layer and want to fix lvm. OK, we're in the process of splitting the big patch up into nice clean small patches to go to Linus. Hopefully this should be done today, or very shortly at least. patrick - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
Miles Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Gosh, this seems like a bit of a red herring, IMHO. Do you think the LKML gets a "lot" of spam? Or, how about the linux-usb-devel or linux-hotplug-devel lists? None of these lists are moderated and the occasional spam gets sent to them, but I haven't noticed there being enough spam to hinder the usefulness of these lists. That's partly because davem and Matti are rabid anti-spam weasels and very good at it. ;) There are all kinds of filters (including content-based ones) on l-k, otherwise we'd be inundated in processed pork... -Doug -- The rain man gave me two cures; he said jump right in, The first was Texas medicine--the second was just railroad gin, And like a fool I mixed them, and it strangled up my mind, Now people just get uglier, and I got no sense of time... --Dylan - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
Having just a couple of days of vacation I got informed today that a number of people got pissed off and decided to open a new Linux LVM mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED]. Facts people complained about included: 1. people got dropped from the list 2. messages bouncing 3. lack of (small) LVM patches to the Linux kernel 4. submitted patches being ignored WRT points 1 and 2: --- our Linux LVM mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] is now completely open in order to avoid such kind of problems in the future. We apologize for any kind of trouble this caused in the past! We kindly ask everybody to stay at [EMAIL PROTECTED] or to join it in order to avoid a mailing list split. Thanks a lot! WRT point 3: we will regard the Linus kernel as *the* repository for LVM driver changes rather than our public CVS repository from now on! In order to ease this migration we are working to create a bunch of small patches to submit them to the comunity. We will announce when they are available ASAP and would appreciate if people like Alan Cox, Andrea Arcangeli and Andreas Dilger could check them *before* we start submitting them to Linus. Thanks a lot in advance for your support. WRT point 4: a lot of patches send in by the comunity have been included in the actual LVM source. We appreciate all your valuable related work! Nevertheless about 30 patches which would have changed too much have been postponed for LVM 1.1 *because* we are in a feature freeze since a couple of weeks heading to a production stable LVM 1.0. The submitters have been informed about this fact. We will make these postponed patches accessable to everybody and will discuss the status of future patches in the public on the list from now on in order to avoid any further lack of information here. None of the patches which showed up on the lvm mailing lists have been discarded without notice! General statement: -- Linux LVM is a Sistina GPL project and there's no danger at all that we want to change its GPL nature! We apologize for any inconveniences and kindly ask everybody to continue to help us making a better Linux LVM. -- Regards, Heinz-- The LVM Guy -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Heinz Mauelshagen Sistina Software Inc. Senior Consultant/Developer Am Sonnenhang 11 56242 Marienrachdorf Germany [EMAIL PROTECTED] +49 2626 141200 FAX 924446 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [linux-lvm] Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
Previously Heinz J. Mauelshagen wrote: Linux LVM is a Sistina GPL project and there's no danger at all that we want to change its GPL nature! I think the general sentiment is that LVM is a Linux project, currently being managed by Sistina. Also, since you have merged patches from other you no longer can change the license since Sistina is not the sole copyright holder. Wichert. -- / Generally uninteresting signature - ignore at your convenience \ | [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.liacs.nl/~wichert/ | | 1024D/2FA3BC2D 576E 100B 518D 2F16 36B0 2805 3CB8 9250 2FA3 BC2D | - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
We will announce when they are available ASAP and would appreciate if people like Alan Cox, Andrea Arcangeli and Andreas Dilger could check them *before* we start submitting them to Linus. I'll be glad to help look over them. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
On Fri, Apr 20 2001, Alan Cox wrote: We will announce when they are available ASAP and would appreciate if people like Alan Cox, Andrea Arcangeli and Andreas Dilger could check them *before* we start submitting them to Linus. I'll be glad to help look over them. Same here, the important thing is that we actually get this patch flow going. And hopefully in the future as well :) -- Jens Axboe - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
On Fri, Apr 20, 2001 at 08:36:37AM -0400, Doug McNaught wrote: [ not much at all spams at linux-kernel ... ] That's partly because davem and Matti are rabid anti-spam weasels and very good at it. ;) There are all kinds of filters (including content-based ones) on l-k, otherwise we'd be inundated in processed pork... I would say it is SOLELY because we are quite good at it. Some insidious small surprises get thru every now and then, and we really can't block them all without endangering the freedom of dogfight (in between on-topic things) at the list. If you are PERL speaker (or can at least comprehend perl's m(atch) expressions), here is URL to info about it, plus the actual live running filter-set: http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Go to the end of the page, and you see link for the actual filter code used at the VGER's Majordomo. I can only hope that when a legitimate posting goes to list-owner approval, the list-owner would either approve the thing, or inform the message originator that they had used tabooed expressions, and should avoid it in the future to get thru. (I get a lot of junk, linux-kernel-owner gets A LOT MORE ...) -Doug /Matti Aarnio - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
Dear Sistina: I know very little about LVM, but from watching earlier projects in the same situation you're in now, the path you need to follow seems clear: Stop using CVS internally for development. It makes checking in changes without submitting them to Linus too easy. To get sync'd back up, *start with the standard kernel*, and start generating clean, human-understandable patches one at a time that bring it up to where you want. Once you've achieved that, have your programmers generate patches rather than checking in to CVS, and feed the patches to Linus at the same time you hand them out to your other programmers. Individual programmers may need to do more testing this way, but c'est la vie. This is the only way to achieve union with the standard kernel. So many projects have failed to learn this lesson... ignore it at your peril. - Dan - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [linux-lvm] Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
On Thu, 19 Apr 2001, Andreas Dilger wrote: > went in, but not other stuff. Also, it doesn't appear that any of the > LVM changes are making it into the stock kernel, which is basically a > recepie for disaster. agreed... after the problematic inclusion of 0.9 into the kernel i asked on sistina LVM list whether they could try to be a bit more proactive about feeding patches on to linus, to make life easier for LVM users - they had fixes for the problems of 0.9 but never, and still to this day have not, fed the code on. Still to this day, nothing from them but announcements on l-k of various betas. AFAIK all the patches for LVM submitted to linus since 0.8 went in have been from core linux developers (Andrea, Jens, etc.), not sistina. shame... their LVM is really nice to use. Just frustrating that they do want to feed the code on... more frustrating still when you consider the lobbying that went on to try persuade l-k that LVM should go in. > Cheers, Andreas obHiddenCode: lm-sensors... used to use this a long time ago. regards, -- Paul Jakma [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] PGP5 key: http://www.clubi.ie/jakma/publickey.txt --- Fortune: Happiness is twin floppies. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [linux-lvm] Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
AJ writes: > Ok, the issue here is that we're trying to get a release out and so anything > that majorly changes the code is getting shunted aside for the moment. Actually, the whole idea of "trying to get a release out" is part of the problem. If patches were included into CVS and sent sent to Linus as they arrived we wouldn't be in this situation. My take on this is that holding back legitimate patches "to get the release out" ends up accumulating so many changes that it is impossible to sync up later. The Linux kernel is a successful project because Linus generally accepts everything that is a bug fix or code cleanup (features are another matter, but very little if any of the patches I send you are "features"). > It would be stupid to just add everything that comes in on the ML without > review. Linus does the exact same thing. Yes, it would be stupid to "just accept everything" that is sent to the mailing list, but really, I've done a pretty good job of submitting patches in small, self-contained pieces IMHO (even if it happens that I send a lot of such patches at one time). I mean the code has to be cleaned up at some time, so we may as well do it sooner rather than later. > I've said this before to you Andreas, but apparently you feel that you > should have final say on whether your patches go in or not. Well, I would hope that given the fact I've been working on LVM considerably longer than anyone else at Sistina (excluding Heinz) that you might just trust my judgement a bit more. I'm _trying_ to contribute to LVM, and do so in easy-to-digest pieces, but given that it is hard to get patches into CVS, and my codebase is increasingly divergent from your CVS tree. I have better ways to spend my time than going through 10,000 lines of diff and guessing which parts are new, and which parts have been held of "for the next release". The EVMS code is starting out clean, and I hope I can help keep it that way. > As far as getting patches into the stock kernel, we've been sending patches > to Linus for over a month now, and none of them have made it in. Maybe > someone has some pointers on how we get our code past his filters. That's because the "release" patches are too huge now. If it were up to me, and I've asked you a couple of times on this, I would have already sent a whole bunch of bug fixes to Linus as small, self-contained patches. However, I held back because you asked me not to send patches to Linus directly. Cheers, Andreas -- Andreas Dilger \ "If a man ate a pound of pasta and a pound of antipasto, \ would they cancel out, leaving him still hungry?" http://www-mddsp.enel.ucalgary.ca/People/adilger/ -- Dogbert - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [linux-lvm] Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
Alan Cox wrote: >>As far as getting patches into the stock kernel, we've been sending patches >>to Linus for over a month now, and none of them have made it in. Maybe >>someone has some pointers on how we get our code past his filters. >> > > Has it occured to you that some of this might be because the code does stuff > like hide flags in the low bits of addresses and do unchecked kmallocs ? > Things people have tried to send patches for .. > > The best way to get stuff to Linus is to feed him changes one at a time and > make them all clean and clearly correct. When I have a big set of changes I > normally start by feeding Linus all the 'fluff' - spelling checks and small > warning fixes. After that its normally easy to pick out changes one at a time > and feed them on. > > Given 500 lines of mixed up diff it is very hard to verify the correctness of > anything. The IrDA folks have had a similar struggle. AJ, perhaps it would be helpful for you to read the discussion that took place regarding getting a bunch of IrDA code merged into the 2.4 tree: http://www.pasta.cs.uit.no/pipermail/linux-irda/2000-November/001923.html Dag Brattli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> eventually had a discussion with Linus and hashed out what he needed to do to get Linus to accept his big patch. It all worked out very well, IIRC. Miles - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [linux-lvm] Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
Hi AJ, On Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 02:40:15PM -0500, AJ Lewis wrote: > The list is now open. I've talked to our admin and he's opening it up. > Send me e-mail if it doesn't work, 'cause something else is broken. to me it looks like your reactions are too late. I suggest you Sistina people accept the fact the there is an open list (better) managed by somebody else now and you all move there and use this as a forum for your discussions from now on. Just send the new list admin a list with your people to be subscribed ... and I can not imagine they will refuse to help you. (Otherwise they would be as closed-minded as you were.) Maintaining a project which got integrated into the kernel and forms a critical part of it (if there are bugs) is not an easy thing to do, and you should expect controversary discussions. On the one hand you want to fix things and introduce small and large improvements, on the other hand you don't want to take risks. Just get used to it. You'll always have a newer version to test than the one in the kernel. However, it works best if you try to submit your changes as often as possible. Of course I know, this is close to impossible when you have to redesign stuff and have to wait for stabilization ... Good luck! -- Kurt Garloff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Eindhoven, NL GPG key: See mail header, key servers Linux kernel development SuSE GmbH, Nuernberg, FRG SCSI, Security PGP signature
Re: [linux-lvm] Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
On Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 04:09:32PM -0400, Jeff Garzik wrote: > AJ Lewis wrote: > > Ok, the issue here is that we're trying to get a release out and so anything > > that majorly changes the code is getting shunted aside for the moment. It > > would be stupid to just add everything that comes in on the ML without > > review. Linus does the exact same thing. I've said this before to you > > Andreas, but apparently you feel that you should have final say on whether > > your patches go in or not. > > > As far as getting patches into the stock kernel, we've been sending patches > > to Linus for over a month now, and none of them have made it in. Maybe > > someone has some pointers on how we get our code past his filters. > > Read Documentation/SubmittingPatches, and also listen to kernel hackers > who know the block layer and want to fix lvm. > > And I wonder, if kernel hackers are saying lvm is broken... why do you > want to freeze it and ship it in that state? Hmm...perhaps I didn't make myself clear. AFAIK Heinz is not putting cosmetic changes into the CVS. The team should be putting fixes in. If they aren't it's because they are dealing with backlog. As far as the smaller patches go. I know. We're working on it; really we are. Regards, -- AJ Lewis Sistina Software Inc. Voice: 612-379-3951 1313 5th St SE, Suite 111 Fax:612-379-3952 Minneapolis, MN 55414 E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.sistina.com Current GPG fingerprint = 3B5F 6011 5216 76A5 2F6B 52A0 941E 1261 0029 2648 Get my key at: http://www.sistina.com/~lewis/gpgkey (Unfortunately, the PKS-type keyservers do not work with multiple sub-keys) -Begin Obligatory Humorous Quote There's nary an animal alive that can outrun a greased Scotsman. - Groundskeeper Willie -End Obligatory Humorous Quote-- PGP signature
Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
AJ Lewis wrote: > On Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 08:02:50PM +0100, Alan Cox wrote: > >>Well their approach to patches that fix bugs is to reject emails. They've done >>that to stuff I've reported any many others. So there is a problem. And its >>kind of hard to discuss a problem when you are being moderated out of existance. >> > > Hmm...i guess there is a communication issue here. It sounds like the > message that our ML server was sending was misleading. We were not > rejecting mail because of content. The ML server was rejecting it because > the address was not subscribed. Our idea was that we don't want spam. > If it's completely unmoderated, then we will get a *lot* of spam. Gosh, this seems like a bit of a red herring, IMHO. Do you think the LKML gets a "lot" of spam? Or, how about the linux-usb-devel or linux-hotplug-devel lists? None of these lists are moderated and the occasional spam gets sent to them, but I haven't noticed there being enough spam to hinder the usefulness of these lists. Miles - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [linux-lvm] Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
AJ Lewis wrote: > Ok, the issue here is that we're trying to get a release out and so anything > that majorly changes the code is getting shunted aside for the moment. It > would be stupid to just add everything that comes in on the ML without > review. Linus does the exact same thing. I've said this before to you > Andreas, but apparently you feel that you should have final say on whether > your patches go in or not. > As far as getting patches into the stock kernel, we've been sending patches > to Linus for over a month now, and none of them have made it in. Maybe > someone has some pointers on how we get our code past his filters. Read Documentation/SubmittingPatches, and also listen to kernel hackers who know the block layer and want to fix lvm. And I wonder, if kernel hackers are saying lvm is broken... why do you want to freeze it and ship it in that state? -- Jeff Garzik | "The universe is like a safe to which there is a Building 1024 | combination -- but the combination is locked up MandrakeSoft | in the safe."-- Peter DeVries - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [linux-lvm] Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
> As far as getting patches into the stock kernel, we've been sending patches > to Linus for over a month now, and none of them have made it in. Maybe > someone has some pointers on how we get our code past his filters. Has it occured to you that some of this might be because the code does stuff like hide flags in the low bits of addresses and do unchecked kmallocs ? Things people have tried to send patches for .. The best way to get stuff to Linus is to feed him changes one at a time and make them all clean and clearly correct. When I have a big set of changes I normally start by feeding Linus all the 'fluff' - spelling checks and small warning fixes. After that its normally easy to pick out changes one at a time and feed them on. Given 500 lines of mixed up diff it is very hard to verify the correctness of anything. Alan - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [linux-lvm] Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
On Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 01:45:20PM -0600, Andreas Dilger wrote: > I don't think that the subscription is necessarily the only issue. I'm > subscribed to all of the LVM mailing lists, and still a lot of what I > submit (legitimate bug fixes, and not just features/code cleanup) does > not get added to CVS. Just alone the fact that you as number one submitter of LVM-bugfixes since at least 0.8 do not get CVS write access is a sign of closedness for me. But we discussed that on the sistina list. > Yes, the no-possible-harm patches like man pages > went in, but not other stuff. Also, it doesn't appear that any of the > LVM changes are making it into the stock kernel, which is basically a > recepie for disaster. 100% True. A few days ago I looke at the LVM patches to see what parts of it could be fed to Linus in small pieces - but it's such a _huge_ mixture of bugfixes, cleanups and move-arounds that it looks pretty much impossible. > Basically, I'm at the point where trying to create clean patches from my > LVM source tree to apply to CVS is so much work it is hardly worth it. IMHO wou should just put _your_ tree on a sever and submit it (in pieces) to Linus. AFAIK all serious users of LVM have used you're patched versions. Maybe openlvm is a good hood for such a project? > I'm seriously looking at devoting the time I used to spend on LVM to the > EVMS project instead. They (appear to) have in-kernel LVM support working > already, so no user tools needed for VG/LV activation. Granted, they don't > yet have tools to create/modify VG/LVs, but I think I can help them there. Yes - when looking at what code they produces it looks a _lot_ cleaner than Linux-LVM and while the papers had serious signs of Overengeering the actual code looks very good to me - it could just get a little better integrated with the main kernel, but that's a 2.5 issue. Christoph -- Of course it doesn't work. We've performed a software upgrade. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [linux-lvm] Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
On Thu, Apr 19 2001, AJ Lewis wrote: > As far as getting patches into the stock kernel, we've been sending patches > to Linus for over a month now, and none of them have made it in. Maybe > someone has some pointers on how we get our code past his filters. The diff between 2.4.4-pre LVM and your last beta is HUGE. That's a very good clue why Linus hasn't taken it! Find a bug, fix it, submit diff. Not find lots of bugs for a month, submit huge diff. -- Jens Axboe - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [linux-lvm] Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
On Thu, 19 Apr 2001, Andreas Dilger wrote: > I don't think that the subscription is necessarily the only > issue. I'm subscribed to all of the LVM mailing lists, and > still a lot of what I submit (legitimate bug fixes, and not just > features/code cleanup) does not get added to CVS. Yes, the > no-possible-harm patches like man pages went in, but not other > stuff. Also, it doesn't appear that any of the LVM changes are > making it into the stock kernel, which is basically a recepie > for disaster. This is indeed an even bigger problem. LVM is no longer just a Sistina product, it is an integrated part of the Linux kernel. This brings with it the responsability of maintaining the LVM subsystem which is included in the kernel. I understand that Sistina may want to do "LVM releases" every once in a while, but this isn't a development model that makes much sense when their code has been integrated into the Linux kernel (IMHO). > The openlvm list may change my mind, I'll see. If you think any other openly accessible LVM development things are needed (maybe a CVS tree which can be used by all LVM developers and not just the Sistina folks?) .. NL.linux.org is all yours. regards, Rik -- Linux MM bugzilla: http://linux-mm.org/bugzilla.shtml Virtual memory is like a game you can't win; However, without VM there's truly nothing to lose... http://www.surriel.com/ http://www.conectiva.com/ http://distro.conectiva.com/ - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [linux-lvm] Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
On Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 01:45:20PM -0600, Andreas Dilger wrote: > I don't think that the subscription is necessarily the only issue. I'm > subscribed to all of the LVM mailing lists, and still a lot of what I > submit (legitimate bug fixes, and not just features/code cleanup) does > not get added to CVS. Yes, the no-possible-harm patches like man pages > went in, but not other stuff. Also, it doesn't appear that any of the > LVM changes are making it into the stock kernel, which is basically a > recepie for disaster. Ok, the issue here is that we're trying to get a release out and so anything that majorly changes the code is getting shunted aside for the moment. It would be stupid to just add everything that comes in on the ML without review. Linus does the exact same thing. I've said this before to you Andreas, but apparently you feel that you should have final say on whether your patches go in or not. As far as getting patches into the stock kernel, we've been sending patches to Linus for over a month now, and none of them have made it in. Maybe someone has some pointers on how we get our code past his filters. > Basically, I'm at the point where trying to create clean patches from my > LVM source tree to apply to CVS is so much work it is hardly worth it. > I'm seriously looking at devoting the time I used to spend on LVM to the > EVMS project instead. They (appear to) have in-kernel LVM support working > already, so no user tools needed for VG/LV activation. Granted, they don't > yet have tools to create/modify VG/LVs, but I think I can help them there. > It appears more likely that EVMS will only support Linux LVM volumes for > compatibility, and move to a more robust on-disk format for metadata. > > The openlvm list may change my mind, I'll see. > > Cheers, Andreas > -- > Andreas Dilger \ "If a man ate a pound of pasta and a pound of antipasto, > \ would they cancel out, leaving him still hungry?" > http://www-mddsp.enel.ucalgary.ca/People/adilger/ -- Dogbert > ___ > linux-lvm mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://lists.sistina.com/mailman/listinfo/linux-lvm -- AJ Lewis Sistina Software Inc. Voice: 612-379-3951 1313 5th St SE, Suite 111 Fax:612-379-3952 Minneapolis, MN 55414 E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.sistina.com Current GPG fingerprint = 3B5F 6011 5216 76A5 2F6B 52A0 941E 1261 0029 2648 Get my key at: http://www.sistina.com/~lewis/gpgkey (Unfortunately, the PKS-type keyservers do not work with multiple sub-keys) -Begin Obligatory Humorous Quote Carpe Aptenodytes! (Seize the Penguins!) -End Obligatory Humorous Quote-- PGP signature
Re: [linux-lvm] Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
> Not to be negative, but isn't Alan the pot calling the kettle black? You > use ORBS to block email as well, with no hope of reprieve. AFAIK, the I dont stop other people discussing the kernel. Its very very different. > linux-lvm list has a moderator which _should_ forward legitimate emails > on to the list. Maybe they are piling up somewhere, unread? If they were that would be understandable but they were being rejected. Anyway it seems to be a finished discussion. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [linux-lvm] Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
> All it would have taken was a request and a good reason for doing so, but > I guess this is one way to do it. Just don't complain about spam. :) I think you'll find several folks who run linux-kernel and other lists like the linux.nl mailhub more than happy to help there Alan - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
> "Jens" == Jens Axboe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Jens> First one gets a mail saying that the mail sent is queued for Jens> moderator approval, since I'm not on the list. Then later a Jens> second mail arrives, saying the mail has been rejected by the Jens> moderator. Yep. Same here. Latest and greatest... ---8<--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Your message to linux-lvm awaits moderator approval To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 22:02:40 +0200 Your mail to 'linux-lvm' with the subject Re: [linux-lvm] *** ANNOUNCEMENT *** LVM 0.9.1 Beta 7 available at www.sistina.com Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval. ---8<--- Now, I held my breath until the following day... ---8<--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Request to mailing list linux-lvm rejected To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 17:32:36 +0200 Your request to the linux-lvm mailing list Posting of your message titled "Re: [linux-lvm] *** ANNOUNCEMENT *** LVM 0.9.1 Beta 7 available at www.sistina.com" has been rejected by the list moderator. The moderator gave the following reason for rejecting your request: "Non-members are not allowed to post messages to this list." ---8<--- Since there is such a long delay between the two mails, it's obvious that there is human intervention involved. And when an on-topic mail is rejected by the moderator, well... go figure. And this isn't the first time this has happened to me and several others. By far... -- Martin K. Petersen, Principal Linux Consultant, Linuxcare, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.linuxcare.com/ SGI XFS for Linux Developer, http://oss.sgi.com/projects/xfs/ - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [linux-lvm] Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
AJ Lewis writes: > On Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 08:02:50PM +0100, Alan Cox wrote: > > Well their approach to patches that fix bugs is to reject emails. They've > > done that to stuff I've reported any many others. So there is a problem. > > And it's kind of hard to discuss a problem when you are being moderated > > out of existance. Not to be negative, but isn't Alan the pot calling the kettle black? You use ORBS to block email as well, with no hope of reprieve. AFAIK, the linux-lvm list has a moderator which _should_ forward legitimate emails on to the list. Maybe they are piling up somewhere, unread? > Hmm...i guess there is a communication issue here. It sounds like the > message that our ML server was sending was misleading. We were not > rejecting mail because of content. The ML server was rejecting it because > the address was not subscribed. Our idea was that we don't want spam. > If it's completely unmoderated, then we will get a *lot* of spam. I don't think that the subscription is necessarily the only issue. I'm subscribed to all of the LVM mailing lists, and still a lot of what I submit (legitimate bug fixes, and not just features/code cleanup) does not get added to CVS. Yes, the no-possible-harm patches like man pages went in, but not other stuff. Also, it doesn't appear that any of the LVM changes are making it into the stock kernel, which is basically a recepie for disaster. Basically, I'm at the point where trying to create clean patches from my LVM source tree to apply to CVS is so much work it is hardly worth it. I'm seriously looking at devoting the time I used to spend on LVM to the EVMS project instead. They (appear to) have in-kernel LVM support working already, so no user tools needed for VG/LV activation. Granted, they don't yet have tools to create/modify VG/LVs, but I think I can help them there. It appears more likely that EVMS will only support Linux LVM volumes for compatibility, and move to a more robust on-disk format for metadata. The openlvm list may change my mind, I'll see. Cheers, Andreas -- Andreas Dilger \ "If a man ate a pound of pasta and a pound of antipasto, \ would they cancel out, leaving him still hungry?" http://www-mddsp.enel.ucalgary.ca/People/adilger/ -- Dogbert - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [linux-lvm] Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
The list is now open. I've talked to our admin and he's opening it up. Send me e-mail if it doesn't work, 'cause something else is broken. All it would have taken was a request and a good reason for doing so, but I guess this is one way to do it. Just don't complain about spam. :) Regards, AJ Lewis On Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 01:29:27PM -0500, AJ Lewis wrote: > It is unfortunate that this could not have been resolved in a more mature > manner. Saying "I don't like the way somebody is doing something. I won't > bother to talk to them about it, I'll just flame them and try to undermine > their work." is not acceptable. It would have been nice if you'd actually > tried to work this out instead of handling it this way. > > Regards, > AJ Lewis > > On Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 07:51:52PM +0200, Jes Sorensen wrote: > > Hi > > > > I would like to announce the creation of the openlvm mailing list for > > discussion about maintenance and further development of the Linux > > Logical Volume Manager (LVM). > > > > The new mailing list is named linux-openlvm and hosted at > > nl.linux.org, you can subscribe to the list by posting to > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and postings should go to > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] The list is unmoderated and open to > > postings from individuals who are not subscribed to the list as it is > > good practice for all open development lists. > > > > We have found it necessary to create the new list as the current LVM > > development proces is closed and does not take input from the > > community. We have experienced numerous incidents of postings to the > > old mailing list with patches, on topic questions and comments about > > the LVM code that have been rejected by the list moderator. We find > > this completely unacceptable just as it is hindering development that > > a development mailing list is being so mismoderated. > > > > Please welcome the new list and join in on the development and > > discussions. > > > > Sincerly, > > Jens Axboe > > Arjan van de Ven > > Martin Petersen > > Rik van Riel > > Jes Sorensen > > - > > Linux-openlvm: open list for LVM on Linux > > Archive: http://mail.nl.linux.org/linux-openlvm/ > > > > > -- > AJ Lewis > Sistina Software Inc. Voice: 612-379-3951 > 1313 5th St SE, Suite 111 Fax:612-379-3952 > Minneapolis, MN 55414 E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www.sistina.com > > Current GPG fingerprint = 3B5F 6011 5216 76A5 2F6B 52A0 941E 1261 0029 2648 > Get my key at: http://www.sistina.com/~lewis/gpgkey > (Unfortunately, the PKS-type keyservers do not work with multiple sub-keys) > > -Begin Obligatory Humorous Quote > Error: Keyboard not attached. Press F1 to continue. > -End Obligatory Humorous Quote-- -- AJ Lewis Sistina Software Inc. Voice: 612-379-3951 1313 5th St SE, Suite 111 Fax:612-379-3952 Minneapolis, MN 55414 E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.sistina.com Current GPG fingerprint = 3B5F 6011 5216 76A5 2F6B 52A0 941E 1261 0029 2648 Get my key at: http://www.sistina.com/~lewis/gpgkey (Unfortunately, the PKS-type keyservers do not work with multiple sub-keys) -Begin Obligatory Humorous Quote Your mouse has moved. Windows NT must be restarted for the change to take effect. Reboot now? [ OK ] -End Obligatory Humorous Quote-- PGP signature
Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
> "AJ" == AJ Lewis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
AJ> On Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 09:17:29PM +0200, Jes Sorensen wrote:
>> This was tried, trust me. We didn't create this list because
>> someone forgot to respond to a single posting. As we wrote in the
>> announcement there has been too many incidents: At least two people
>> got kicked off the old lvm list for posting comments about the
>> latest release using lower bits in pointers to store data. Other
>> people have posted patches for serious bugs like NULL pointer
>> dereferences and the postings were denied. Another person
>> complained about the behavior and got no response.
AJ> What are you talking about??? Got kicked off? If so, it was not
AJ> intentional, I can assure you. That would just be stupid. As far
AJ> as patches being rejected, refer to the e-mail I just sent.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] got unsubscribed when he posted the complaint about
storing data in lower bits of pointers. Riel got bumped when he
followed up on the same topic.
Jens just told me he has at least one denied reponse from the
moderator (just got the below from him):
"Your request to the linux-lvm mailing list
Posting of your message titled "Re: 2.4.3-ac{6,7} LVM hang"
has been rejected by the list moderator."
>> For modules included in the Linux kernel, an open development forum
>> is a minimum requirement.
AJ> Who asked for this? Who did you talk to? I haven't seen anything
AJ> to this effect for months.
A moderated list is not an open environment. Had this been for a
Sistina only product I wouldn't have any problem with it, but this is
for an integrated part of the Linux kernel.
Jes
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Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
On Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 09:35:51PM +0200, Jes Sorensen wrote: > > ">" == AJ Lewis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >> Hmm...i guess there is a communication issue here. It sounds like > >> the message that our ML server was sending was misleading. We were > >> not rejecting mail because of content. The ML server was rejecting > >> it because the address was not subscribed. Our idea was that we > >> don't want spam. If it's completely unmoderated, then we will get > >> a *lot* of spam. > > The mail states it's been forwarded to the moderator, yes I just got > one. Thats another issue here, Cc'ing a closed mailing list when > posting to an open list like linux-kernel is rude (but thats just a > minor issue in this discussion). The list is open now. Sorry for the inconvenience and misunderstanding. Hopefully this is a non-issue now. > >> Did anyone bother to e-mail the list admins? Perhaps it was too > >> difficult to figure out who to mail about this, but I know for a > >> fact that Rik van Riel and Jens Axboe could post to > >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] It would have been nice if they had > >> mentioned something to us. > > I know that Jens posted to linux-lvm-admin two days ago and didn't get > a response. Hmm...our admin was testing LVM + GFS on his laptop on linux 2.4 and lost some mail due to file corruption a couple of days ago...that's probably what happened to it. :( Regards, -- AJ Lewis Sistina Software Inc. Voice: 612-379-3951 1313 5th St SE, Suite 111 Fax:612-379-3952 Minneapolis, MN 55414 E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.sistina.com Current GPG fingerprint = 3B5F 6011 5216 76A5 2F6B 52A0 941E 1261 0029 2648 Get my key at: http://www.sistina.com/~lewis/gpgkey (Unfortunately, the PKS-type keyservers do not work with multiple sub-keys) -Begin Obligatory Humorous Quote Choose a job you love, and you will never have to work a day in your life. -End Obligatory Humorous Quote-- PGP signature
Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
> ">" == AJ Lewis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> Hmm...i guess there is a communication issue here. It sounds like >> the message that our ML server was sending was misleading. We were >> not rejecting mail because of content. The ML server was rejecting >> it because the address was not subscribed. Our idea was that we >> don't want spam. If it's completely unmoderated, then we will get >> a *lot* of spam. The mail states it's been forwarded to the moderator, yes I just got one. Thats another issue here, Cc'ing a closed mailing list when posting to an open list like linux-kernel is rude (but thats just a minor issue in this discussion). >> Did anyone bother to e-mail the list admins? Perhaps it was too >> difficult to figure out who to mail about this, but I know for a >> fact that Rik van Riel and Jens Axboe could post to >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] It would have been nice if they had >> mentioned something to us. I know that Jens posted to linux-lvm-admin two days ago and didn't get a response. >> The openlvm list is open to existing LVM hackers too.. >> True, but it seems silly to duplicate the load if it's not >> necessary. Right now there is no load because the postings aren't getting through at all. Jes - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
On Thu, Apr 19 2001, AJ Lewis wrote: > Did anyone bother to e-mail the list admins? Perhaps it was too difficult > to figure out who to mail about this, but I know for a fact that Rik van > Riel and Jens Axboe could post to [EMAIL PROTECTED] It would have been > nice if they had mentioned something to us. First one gets a mail saying that the mail sent is queued for moderator approval, since I'm not on the list. Then later a second mail arrives, saying the mail has been rejected by the moderator. I then reply to the admin mail listed, in not-so-kind words (yes I was pissed off). Haven't heard anything. > > The openlvm list is open to existing LVM hackers too.. > > True, but it seems silly to duplicate the load if it's not necessary. It's necessary in that we need an open list. -- Jens Axboe - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
On Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 09:17:29PM +0200, Jes Sorensen wrote: > This was tried, trust me. We didn't create this list because someone > forgot to respond to a single posting. As we wrote in the announcement > there has been too many incidents: At least two people got kicked off > the old lvm list for posting comments about the latest release using > lower bits in pointers to store data. Other people have posted patches > for serious bugs like NULL pointer dereferences and the postings were > denied. Another person complained about the behavior and got no > response. What are you talking about??? Got kicked off? If so, it was not intentional, I can assure you. That would just be stupid. As far as patches being rejected, refer to the e-mail I just sent. > For modules included in the Linux kernel, an open development forum is > a minimum requirement. Who asked for this? Who did you talk to? I haven't seen anything to this effect for months. -- AJ Lewis Sistina Software Inc. Voice: 612-379-3951 1313 5th St SE, Suite 111 Fax:612-379-3952 Minneapolis, MN 55414 E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.sistina.com Current GPG fingerprint = 3B5F 6011 5216 76A5 2F6B 52A0 941E 1261 0029 2648 Get my key at: http://www.sistina.com/~lewis/gpgkey (Unfortunately, the PKS-type keyservers do not work with multiple sub-keys) -Begin Obligatory Humorous Quote Over and over I find being redundant is key to success in the art of redundancy - Jay Armstrong -End Obligatory Humorous Quote-- PGP signature
Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
On Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 08:02:50PM +0100, Alan Cox wrote: > Well their approach to patches that fix bugs is to reject emails. They've done > that to stuff I've reported any many others. So there is a problem. And its > kind of hard to discuss a problem when you are being moderated out of existance. Hmm...i guess there is a communication issue here. It sounds like the message that our ML server was sending was misleading. We were not rejecting mail because of content. The ML server was rejecting it because the address was not subscribed. Our idea was that we don't want spam. If it's completely unmoderated, then we will get a *lot* of spam. Did anyone bother to e-mail the list admins? Perhaps it was too difficult to figure out who to mail about this, but I know for a fact that Rik van Riel and Jens Axboe could post to [EMAIL PROTECTED] It would have been nice if they had mentioned something to us. > The openlvm list is open to existing LVM hackers too.. True, but it seems silly to duplicate the load if it's not necessary. Regards, -- AJ Lewis Sistina Software Inc. Voice: 612-379-3951 1313 5th St SE, Suite 111 Fax:612-379-3952 Minneapolis, MN 55414 E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.sistina.com Current GPG fingerprint = 3B5F 6011 5216 76A5 2F6B 52A0 941E 1261 0029 2648 Get my key at: http://www.sistina.com/~lewis/gpgkey (Unfortunately, the PKS-type keyservers do not work with multiple sub-keys) -Begin Obligatory Humorous Quote Sometimes I have a difficult time handling myself in social situations. I just start scampering around neurotically, frantically jumping all over guests. I think it all goes back to when I was raised in the wild by miniature schnauzers. -End Obligatory Humorous Quote-- PGP signature
Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
> "AJ" == AJ Lewis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: AJ> It is unfortunate that this could not have been resolved in a more AJ> mature manner. Personally, I find it exceedingly immature that my postings get moderated to the bitbucket every time I report a bug in your code. This is simply not the way we are working in the Linux community, and you guys will either have to change your closed development model or deal with a fork of the LVM tree... -- Martin K. Petersen, Principal Linux Consultant, Linuxcare, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.linuxcare.com/ SGI XFS for Linux Developer, http://oss.sgi.com/projects/xfs/ - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
> ">" == AJ Lewis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> It is unfortunate that this could not have been resolved in a more >> mature manner. Saying "I don't like the way somebody is doing >> something. I won't bother to talk to them about it, I'll just >> flame them and try to undermine their work." is not acceptable. It >> would have been nice if you'd actually tried to work this out >> instead of handling it this way. This was tried, trust me. We didn't create this list because someone forgot to respond to a single posting. As we wrote in the announcement there has been too many incidents: At least two people got kicked off the old lvm list for posting comments about the latest release using lower bits in pointers to store data. Other people have posted patches for serious bugs like NULL pointer dereferences and the postings were denied. Another person complained about the behavior and got no response. For modules included in the Linux kernel, an open development forum is a minimum requirement. Jes - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
> It is unfortunate that this could not have been resolved in a more mature > manner. Saying "I don't like the way somebody is doing something. I won't > bother to talk to them about it, I'll just flame them and try to undermine > their work." is not acceptable. It would have been nice if you'd actually > tried to work this out instead of handling it this way. Well their approach to patches that fix bugs is to reject emails. They've done that to stuff I've reported any many others. So there is a problem. And its kind of hard to discuss a problem when you are being moderated out of existance. The openlvm list is open to existing LVM hackers too.. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
On Thu, Apr 19 2001, AJ Lewis wrote: > It is unfortunate that this could not have been resolved in a more mature > manner. Saying "I don't like the way somebody is doing something. I won't > bother to talk to them about it, I'll just flame them and try to undermine > their work." is not acceptable. It would have been nice if you'd actually > tried to work this out instead of handling it this way. LVM concerns us all now that it is not just an addon, but actually a part of the kernel. Rejecting mails and reports from users and developers who just might be able to lend you a hand fixing bugs, is not just counter productive it's downright rude! Besides, I didn't think the posting was flame material at all. If nothing else, it's a wake up call. -- Jens Axboe - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
On Thu, 19 Apr 2001, AJ Lewis wrote: > It is unfortunate that this could not have been resolved in a more mature > manner. Saying "I don't like the way somebody is doing something. I won't > bother to talk to them about it, I'll just flame them and try to undermine > their work." is not acceptable. It would have been nice if you'd actually > tried to work this out instead of handling it this way. We tried, but the last time we had something to say about your code the message wasn't allowed on your list. Now that the code is in the kernel, we are of the opinion that it is no longer acceptable to censor messages when they are too critical about the LVM source code. This beast is in the kernel, now we'd better be allowed to talk about the source code and maintain the thing. regards, Rik -- Linux MM bugzilla: http://linux-mm.org/bugzilla.shtml Virtual memory is like a game you can't win; However, without VM there's truly nothing to lose... http://www.surriel.com/ http://www.conectiva.com/ http://distro.conectiva.com/ - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
AJ Lewis wrote: > It is unfortunate that this could not have been resolved in a more mature > manner. Saying "I don't like the way somebody is doing something. I won't > bother to talk to them about it, I'll just flame them and try to undermine > their work." is not acceptable. It would have been nice if you'd actually > tried to work this out instead of handling it this way. Maybe he did, but his attempt got moderated down... :) -- Jeff Garzik | "The universe is like a safe to which there is a Building 1024 | combination -- but the combination is locked up MandrakeSoft | in the safe."-- Peter DeVries - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
It is unfortunate that this could not have been resolved in a more mature manner. Saying "I don't like the way somebody is doing something. I won't bother to talk to them about it, I'll just flame them and try to undermine their work." is not acceptable. It would have been nice if you'd actually tried to work this out instead of handling it this way. Regards, AJ Lewis On Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 07:51:52PM +0200, Jes Sorensen wrote: > Hi > > I would like to announce the creation of the openlvm mailing list for > discussion about maintenance and further development of the Linux > Logical Volume Manager (LVM). > > The new mailing list is named linux-openlvm and hosted at > nl.linux.org, you can subscribe to the list by posting to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and postings should go to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] The list is unmoderated and open to > postings from individuals who are not subscribed to the list as it is > good practice for all open development lists. > > We have found it necessary to create the new list as the current LVM > development proces is closed and does not take input from the > community. We have experienced numerous incidents of postings to the > old mailing list with patches, on topic questions and comments about > the LVM code that have been rejected by the list moderator. We find > this completely unacceptable just as it is hindering development that > a development mailing list is being so mismoderated. > > Please welcome the new list and join in on the development and > discussions. > > Sincerly, > Jens Axboe > Arjan van de Ven > Martin Petersen > Rik van Riel > Jes Sorensen > - > Linux-openlvm: open list for LVM on Linux > Archive: http://mail.nl.linux.org/linux-openlvm/ > -- AJ Lewis Sistina Software Inc. Voice: 612-379-3951 1313 5th St SE, Suite 111 Fax:612-379-3952 Minneapolis, MN 55414 E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.sistina.com Current GPG fingerprint = 3B5F 6011 5216 76A5 2F6B 52A0 941E 1261 0029 2648 Get my key at: http://www.sistina.com/~lewis/gpgkey (Unfortunately, the PKS-type keyservers do not work with multiple sub-keys) -Begin Obligatory Humorous Quote Error: Keyboard not attached. Press F1 to continue. -End Obligatory Humorous Quote-- PGP signature
Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
It is unfortunate that this could not have been resolved in a more mature manner. Saying "I don't like the way somebody is doing something. I won't bother to talk to them about it, I'll just flame them and try to undermine their work." is not acceptable. It would have been nice if you'd actually tried to work this out instead of handling it this way. Regards, AJ Lewis On Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 07:51:52PM +0200, Jes Sorensen wrote: Hi I would like to announce the creation of the openlvm mailing list for discussion about maintenance and further development of the Linux Logical Volume Manager (LVM). The new mailing list is named linux-openlvm and hosted at nl.linux.org, you can subscribe to the list by posting to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and postings should go to [EMAIL PROTECTED] The list is unmoderated and open to postings from individuals who are not subscribed to the list as it is good practice for all open development lists. We have found it necessary to create the new list as the current LVM development proces is closed and does not take input from the community. We have experienced numerous incidents of postings to the old mailing list with patches, on topic questions and comments about the LVM code that have been rejected by the list moderator. We find this completely unacceptable just as it is hindering development that a development mailing list is being so mismoderated. Please welcome the new list and join in on the development and discussions. Sincerly, Jens Axboe Arjan van de Ven Martin Petersen Rik van Riel Jes Sorensen - Linux-openlvm: open list for LVM on Linux Archive: http://mail.nl.linux.org/linux-openlvm/ -- AJ Lewis Sistina Software Inc. Voice: 612-379-3951 1313 5th St SE, Suite 111 Fax:612-379-3952 Minneapolis, MN 55414 E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.sistina.com Current GPG fingerprint = 3B5F 6011 5216 76A5 2F6B 52A0 941E 1261 0029 2648 Get my key at: http://www.sistina.com/~lewis/gpgkey (Unfortunately, the PKS-type keyservers do not work with multiple sub-keys) -Begin Obligatory Humorous Quote Error: Keyboard not attached. Press F1 to continue. -End Obligatory Humorous Quote-- PGP signature
Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
AJ Lewis wrote: It is unfortunate that this could not have been resolved in a more mature manner. Saying "I don't like the way somebody is doing something. I won't bother to talk to them about it, I'll just flame them and try to undermine their work." is not acceptable. It would have been nice if you'd actually tried to work this out instead of handling it this way. Maybe he did, but his attempt got moderated down... :) -- Jeff Garzik | "The universe is like a safe to which there is a Building 1024 | combination -- but the combination is locked up MandrakeSoft | in the safe."-- Peter DeVries - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
On Thu, 19 Apr 2001, AJ Lewis wrote: It is unfortunate that this could not have been resolved in a more mature manner. Saying "I don't like the way somebody is doing something. I won't bother to talk to them about it, I'll just flame them and try to undermine their work." is not acceptable. It would have been nice if you'd actually tried to work this out instead of handling it this way. We tried, but the last time we had something to say about your code the message wasn't allowed on your list. Now that the code is in the kernel, we are of the opinion that it is no longer acceptable to censor messages when they are too critical about the LVM source code. This beast is in the kernel, now we'd better be allowed to talk about the source code and maintain the thing. regards, Rik -- Linux MM bugzilla: http://linux-mm.org/bugzilla.shtml Virtual memory is like a game you can't win; However, without VM there's truly nothing to lose... http://www.surriel.com/ http://www.conectiva.com/ http://distro.conectiva.com/ - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
On Thu, Apr 19 2001, AJ Lewis wrote: It is unfortunate that this could not have been resolved in a more mature manner. Saying "I don't like the way somebody is doing something. I won't bother to talk to them about it, I'll just flame them and try to undermine their work." is not acceptable. It would have been nice if you'd actually tried to work this out instead of handling it this way. LVM concerns us all now that it is not just an addon, but actually a part of the kernel. Rejecting mails and reports from users and developers who just might be able to lend you a hand fixing bugs, is not just counter productive it's downright rude! Besides, I didn't think the posting was flame material at all. If nothing else, it's a wake up call. -- Jens Axboe - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
It is unfortunate that this could not have been resolved in a more mature manner. Saying "I don't like the way somebody is doing something. I won't bother to talk to them about it, I'll just flame them and try to undermine their work." is not acceptable. It would have been nice if you'd actually tried to work this out instead of handling it this way. Well their approach to patches that fix bugs is to reject emails. They've done that to stuff I've reported any many others. So there is a problem. And its kind of hard to discuss a problem when you are being moderated out of existance. The openlvm list is open to existing LVM hackers too.. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
"" == AJ Lewis [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It is unfortunate that this could not have been resolved in a more mature manner. Saying "I don't like the way somebody is doing something. I won't bother to talk to them about it, I'll just flame them and try to undermine their work." is not acceptable. It would have been nice if you'd actually tried to work this out instead of handling it this way. This was tried, trust me. We didn't create this list because someone forgot to respond to a single posting. As we wrote in the announcement there has been too many incidents: At least two people got kicked off the old lvm list for posting comments about the latest release using lower bits in pointers to store data. Other people have posted patches for serious bugs like NULL pointer dereferences and the postings were denied. Another person complained about the behavior and got no response. For modules included in the Linux kernel, an open development forum is a minimum requirement. Jes - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
"AJ" == AJ Lewis [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: AJ It is unfortunate that this could not have been resolved in a more AJ mature manner. Personally, I find it exceedingly immature that my postings get moderated to the bitbucket every time I report a bug in your code. This is simply not the way we are working in the Linux community, and you guys will either have to change your closed development model or deal with a fork of the LVM tree... -- Martin K. Petersen, Principal Linux Consultant, Linuxcare, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.linuxcare.com/ SGI XFS for Linux Developer, http://oss.sgi.com/projects/xfs/ - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
On Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 08:02:50PM +0100, Alan Cox wrote: Well their approach to patches that fix bugs is to reject emails. They've done that to stuff I've reported any many others. So there is a problem. And its kind of hard to discuss a problem when you are being moderated out of existance. Hmm...i guess there is a communication issue here. It sounds like the message that our ML server was sending was misleading. We were not rejecting mail because of content. The ML server was rejecting it because the address was not subscribed. Our idea was that we don't want spam. If it's completely unmoderated, then we will get a *lot* of spam. Did anyone bother to e-mail the list admins? Perhaps it was too difficult to figure out who to mail about this, but I know for a fact that Rik van Riel and Jens Axboe could post to [EMAIL PROTECTED] It would have been nice if they had mentioned something to us. The openlvm list is open to existing LVM hackers too.. True, but it seems silly to duplicate the load if it's not necessary. Regards, -- AJ Lewis Sistina Software Inc. Voice: 612-379-3951 1313 5th St SE, Suite 111 Fax:612-379-3952 Minneapolis, MN 55414 E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.sistina.com Current GPG fingerprint = 3B5F 6011 5216 76A5 2F6B 52A0 941E 1261 0029 2648 Get my key at: http://www.sistina.com/~lewis/gpgkey (Unfortunately, the PKS-type keyservers do not work with multiple sub-keys) -Begin Obligatory Humorous Quote Sometimes I have a difficult time handling myself in social situations. I just start scampering around neurotically, frantically jumping all over guests. I think it all goes back to when I was raised in the wild by miniature schnauzers. -End Obligatory Humorous Quote-- PGP signature
Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
On Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 09:17:29PM +0200, Jes Sorensen wrote: This was tried, trust me. We didn't create this list because someone forgot to respond to a single posting. As we wrote in the announcement there has been too many incidents: At least two people got kicked off the old lvm list for posting comments about the latest release using lower bits in pointers to store data. Other people have posted patches for serious bugs like NULL pointer dereferences and the postings were denied. Another person complained about the behavior and got no response. What are you talking about??? Got kicked off? If so, it was not intentional, I can assure you. That would just be stupid. As far as patches being rejected, refer to the e-mail I just sent. For modules included in the Linux kernel, an open development forum is a minimum requirement. Who asked for this? Who did you talk to? I haven't seen anything to this effect for months. -- AJ Lewis Sistina Software Inc. Voice: 612-379-3951 1313 5th St SE, Suite 111 Fax:612-379-3952 Minneapolis, MN 55414 E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.sistina.com Current GPG fingerprint = 3B5F 6011 5216 76A5 2F6B 52A0 941E 1261 0029 2648 Get my key at: http://www.sistina.com/~lewis/gpgkey (Unfortunately, the PKS-type keyservers do not work with multiple sub-keys) -Begin Obligatory Humorous Quote Over and over I find being redundant is key to success in the art of redundancy - Jay Armstrong -End Obligatory Humorous Quote-- PGP signature
Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
On Thu, Apr 19 2001, AJ Lewis wrote: Did anyone bother to e-mail the list admins? Perhaps it was too difficult to figure out who to mail about this, but I know for a fact that Rik van Riel and Jens Axboe could post to [EMAIL PROTECTED] It would have been nice if they had mentioned something to us. First one gets a mail saying that the mail sent is queued for moderator approval, since I'm not on the list. Then later a second mail arrives, saying the mail has been rejected by the moderator. I then reply to the admin mail listed, in not-so-kind words (yes I was pissed off). Haven't heard anything. The openlvm list is open to existing LVM hackers too.. True, but it seems silly to duplicate the load if it's not necessary. It's necessary in that we need an open list. -- Jens Axboe - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
"" == AJ Lewis [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hmm...i guess there is a communication issue here. It sounds like the message that our ML server was sending was misleading. We were not rejecting mail because of content. The ML server was rejecting it because the address was not subscribed. Our idea was that we don't want spam. If it's completely unmoderated, then we will get a *lot* of spam. The mail states it's been forwarded to the moderator, yes I just got one. Thats another issue here, Cc'ing a closed mailing list when posting to an open list like linux-kernel is rude (but thats just a minor issue in this discussion). Did anyone bother to e-mail the list admins? Perhaps it was too difficult to figure out who to mail about this, but I know for a fact that Rik van Riel and Jens Axboe could post to [EMAIL PROTECTED] It would have been nice if they had mentioned something to us. I know that Jens posted to linux-lvm-admin two days ago and didn't get a response. The openlvm list is open to existing LVM hackers too.. True, but it seems silly to duplicate the load if it's not necessary. Right now there is no load because the postings aren't getting through at all. Jes - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
"AJ" == AJ Lewis [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
AJ On Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 09:17:29PM +0200, Jes Sorensen wrote:
This was tried, trust me. We didn't create this list because
someone forgot to respond to a single posting. As we wrote in the
announcement there has been too many incidents: At least two people
got kicked off the old lvm list for posting comments about the
latest release using lower bits in pointers to store data. Other
people have posted patches for serious bugs like NULL pointer
dereferences and the postings were denied. Another person
complained about the behavior and got no response.
AJ What are you talking about??? Got kicked off? If so, it was not
AJ intentional, I can assure you. That would just be stupid. As far
AJ as patches being rejected, refer to the e-mail I just sent.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] got unsubscribed when he posted the complaint about
storing data in lower bits of pointers. Riel got bumped when he
followed up on the same topic.
Jens just told me he has at least one denied reponse from the
moderator (just got the below from him):
"Your request to the linux-lvm mailing list
Posting of your message titled "Re: 2.4.3-ac{6,7} LVM hang"
has been rejected by the list moderator."
For modules included in the Linux kernel, an open development forum
is a minimum requirement.
AJ Who asked for this? Who did you talk to? I haven't seen anything
AJ to this effect for months.
A moderated list is not an open environment. Had this been for a
Sistina only product I wouldn't have any problem with it, but this is
for an integrated part of the Linux kernel.
Jes
-
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More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
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Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
On Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 09:35:51PM +0200, Jes Sorensen wrote: "" == AJ Lewis [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hmm...i guess there is a communication issue here. It sounds like the message that our ML server was sending was misleading. We were not rejecting mail because of content. The ML server was rejecting it because the address was not subscribed. Our idea was that we don't want spam. If it's completely unmoderated, then we will get a *lot* of spam. The mail states it's been forwarded to the moderator, yes I just got one. Thats another issue here, Cc'ing a closed mailing list when posting to an open list like linux-kernel is rude (but thats just a minor issue in this discussion). The list is open now. Sorry for the inconvenience and misunderstanding. Hopefully this is a non-issue now. Did anyone bother to e-mail the list admins? Perhaps it was too difficult to figure out who to mail about this, but I know for a fact that Rik van Riel and Jens Axboe could post to [EMAIL PROTECTED] It would have been nice if they had mentioned something to us. I know that Jens posted to linux-lvm-admin two days ago and didn't get a response. Hmm...our admin was testing LVM + GFS on his laptop on linux 2.4 and lost some mail due to file corruption a couple of days ago...that's probably what happened to it. :( Regards, -- AJ Lewis Sistina Software Inc. Voice: 612-379-3951 1313 5th St SE, Suite 111 Fax:612-379-3952 Minneapolis, MN 55414 E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.sistina.com Current GPG fingerprint = 3B5F 6011 5216 76A5 2F6B 52A0 941E 1261 0029 2648 Get my key at: http://www.sistina.com/~lewis/gpgkey (Unfortunately, the PKS-type keyservers do not work with multiple sub-keys) -Begin Obligatory Humorous Quote Choose a job you love, and you will never have to work a day in your life. -End Obligatory Humorous Quote-- PGP signature
Re: [linux-lvm] Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
The list is now open. I've talked to our admin and he's opening it up. Send me e-mail if it doesn't work, 'cause something else is broken. All it would have taken was a request and a good reason for doing so, but I guess this is one way to do it. Just don't complain about spam. :) Regards, AJ Lewis On Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 01:29:27PM -0500, AJ Lewis wrote: It is unfortunate that this could not have been resolved in a more mature manner. Saying "I don't like the way somebody is doing something. I won't bother to talk to them about it, I'll just flame them and try to undermine their work." is not acceptable. It would have been nice if you'd actually tried to work this out instead of handling it this way. Regards, AJ Lewis On Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 07:51:52PM +0200, Jes Sorensen wrote: Hi I would like to announce the creation of the openlvm mailing list for discussion about maintenance and further development of the Linux Logical Volume Manager (LVM). The new mailing list is named linux-openlvm and hosted at nl.linux.org, you can subscribe to the list by posting to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and postings should go to [EMAIL PROTECTED] The list is unmoderated and open to postings from individuals who are not subscribed to the list as it is good practice for all open development lists. We have found it necessary to create the new list as the current LVM development proces is closed and does not take input from the community. We have experienced numerous incidents of postings to the old mailing list with patches, on topic questions and comments about the LVM code that have been rejected by the list moderator. We find this completely unacceptable just as it is hindering development that a development mailing list is being so mismoderated. Please welcome the new list and join in on the development and discussions. Sincerly, Jens Axboe Arjan van de Ven Martin Petersen Rik van Riel Jes Sorensen - Linux-openlvm: open list for LVM on Linux Archive: http://mail.nl.linux.org/linux-openlvm/ -- AJ Lewis Sistina Software Inc. Voice: 612-379-3951 1313 5th St SE, Suite 111 Fax:612-379-3952 Minneapolis, MN 55414 E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.sistina.com Current GPG fingerprint = 3B5F 6011 5216 76A5 2F6B 52A0 941E 1261 0029 2648 Get my key at: http://www.sistina.com/~lewis/gpgkey (Unfortunately, the PKS-type keyservers do not work with multiple sub-keys) -Begin Obligatory Humorous Quote Error: Keyboard not attached. Press F1 to continue. -End Obligatory Humorous Quote-- -- AJ Lewis Sistina Software Inc. Voice: 612-379-3951 1313 5th St SE, Suite 111 Fax:612-379-3952 Minneapolis, MN 55414 E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.sistina.com Current GPG fingerprint = 3B5F 6011 5216 76A5 2F6B 52A0 941E 1261 0029 2648 Get my key at: http://www.sistina.com/~lewis/gpgkey (Unfortunately, the PKS-type keyservers do not work with multiple sub-keys) -Begin Obligatory Humorous Quote Your mouse has moved. Windows NT must be restarted for the change to take effect. Reboot now? [ OK ] -End Obligatory Humorous Quote-- PGP signature
Re: [linux-lvm] Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
AJ Lewis writes: On Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 08:02:50PM +0100, Alan Cox wrote: Well their approach to patches that fix bugs is to reject emails. They've done that to stuff I've reported any many others. So there is a problem. And it's kind of hard to discuss a problem when you are being moderated out of existance. Not to be negative, but isn't Alan the pot calling the kettle black? You use ORBS to block email as well, with no hope of reprieve. AFAIK, the linux-lvm list has a moderator which _should_ forward legitimate emails on to the list. Maybe they are piling up somewhere, unread? Hmm...i guess there is a communication issue here. It sounds like the message that our ML server was sending was misleading. We were not rejecting mail because of content. The ML server was rejecting it because the address was not subscribed. Our idea was that we don't want spam. If it's completely unmoderated, then we will get a *lot* of spam. I don't think that the subscription is necessarily the only issue. I'm subscribed to all of the LVM mailing lists, and still a lot of what I submit (legitimate bug fixes, and not just features/code cleanup) does not get added to CVS. Yes, the no-possible-harm patches like man pages went in, but not other stuff. Also, it doesn't appear that any of the LVM changes are making it into the stock kernel, which is basically a recepie for disaster. Basically, I'm at the point where trying to create clean patches from my LVM source tree to apply to CVS is so much work it is hardly worth it. I'm seriously looking at devoting the time I used to spend on LVM to the EVMS project instead. They (appear to) have in-kernel LVM support working already, so no user tools needed for VG/LV activation. Granted, they don't yet have tools to create/modify VG/LVs, but I think I can help them there. It appears more likely that EVMS will only support Linux LVM volumes for compatibility, and move to a more robust on-disk format for metadata. The openlvm list may change my mind, I'll see. Cheers, Andreas -- Andreas Dilger \ "If a man ate a pound of pasta and a pound of antipasto, \ would they cancel out, leaving him still hungry?" http://www-mddsp.enel.ucalgary.ca/People/adilger/ -- Dogbert - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [linux-lvm] Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
All it would have taken was a request and a good reason for doing so, but I guess this is one way to do it. Just don't complain about spam. :) I think you'll find several folks who run linux-kernel and other lists like the linux.nl mailhub more than happy to help there Alan - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
"Jens" == Jens Axboe [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Jens First one gets a mail saying that the mail sent is queued for Jens moderator approval, since I'm not on the list. Then later a Jens second mail arrives, saying the mail has been rejected by the Jens moderator. Yep. Same here. Latest and greatest... ---8--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Your message to linux-lvm awaits moderator approval To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 22:02:40 +0200 Your mail to 'linux-lvm' with the subject Re: [linux-lvm] *** ANNOUNCEMENT *** LVM 0.9.1 Beta 7 available at www.sistina.com Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval. ---8--- Now, I held my breath until the following day... ---8--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Request to mailing list linux-lvm rejected To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 17:32:36 +0200 Your request to the linux-lvm mailing list Posting of your message titled "Re: [linux-lvm] *** ANNOUNCEMENT *** LVM 0.9.1 Beta 7 available at www.sistina.com" has been rejected by the list moderator. The moderator gave the following reason for rejecting your request: "Non-members are not allowed to post messages to this list." ---8--- Since there is such a long delay between the two mails, it's obvious that there is human intervention involved. And when an on-topic mail is rejected by the moderator, well... go figure. And this isn't the first time this has happened to me and several others. By far... -- Martin K. Petersen, Principal Linux Consultant, Linuxcare, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.linuxcare.com/ SGI XFS for Linux Developer, http://oss.sgi.com/projects/xfs/ - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [linux-lvm] Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
Not to be negative, but isn't Alan the pot calling the kettle black? You use ORBS to block email as well, with no hope of reprieve. AFAIK, the I dont stop other people discussing the kernel. Its very very different. linux-lvm list has a moderator which _should_ forward legitimate emails on to the list. Maybe they are piling up somewhere, unread? If they were that would be understandable but they were being rejected. Anyway it seems to be a finished discussion. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [linux-lvm] Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
On Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 01:45:20PM -0600, Andreas Dilger wrote: I don't think that the subscription is necessarily the only issue. I'm subscribed to all of the LVM mailing lists, and still a lot of what I submit (legitimate bug fixes, and not just features/code cleanup) does not get added to CVS. Yes, the no-possible-harm patches like man pages went in, but not other stuff. Also, it doesn't appear that any of the LVM changes are making it into the stock kernel, which is basically a recepie for disaster. Ok, the issue here is that we're trying to get a release out and so anything that majorly changes the code is getting shunted aside for the moment. It would be stupid to just add everything that comes in on the ML without review. Linus does the exact same thing. I've said this before to you Andreas, but apparently you feel that you should have final say on whether your patches go in or not. As far as getting patches into the stock kernel, we've been sending patches to Linus for over a month now, and none of them have made it in. Maybe someone has some pointers on how we get our code past his filters. Basically, I'm at the point where trying to create clean patches from my LVM source tree to apply to CVS is so much work it is hardly worth it. I'm seriously looking at devoting the time I used to spend on LVM to the EVMS project instead. They (appear to) have in-kernel LVM support working already, so no user tools needed for VG/LV activation. Granted, they don't yet have tools to create/modify VG/LVs, but I think I can help them there. It appears more likely that EVMS will only support Linux LVM volumes for compatibility, and move to a more robust on-disk format for metadata. The openlvm list may change my mind, I'll see. Cheers, Andreas -- Andreas Dilger \ "If a man ate a pound of pasta and a pound of antipasto, \ would they cancel out, leaving him still hungry?" http://www-mddsp.enel.ucalgary.ca/People/adilger/ -- Dogbert ___ linux-lvm mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sistina.com/mailman/listinfo/linux-lvm -- AJ Lewis Sistina Software Inc. Voice: 612-379-3951 1313 5th St SE, Suite 111 Fax:612-379-3952 Minneapolis, MN 55414 E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.sistina.com Current GPG fingerprint = 3B5F 6011 5216 76A5 2F6B 52A0 941E 1261 0029 2648 Get my key at: http://www.sistina.com/~lewis/gpgkey (Unfortunately, the PKS-type keyservers do not work with multiple sub-keys) -Begin Obligatory Humorous Quote Carpe Aptenodytes! (Seize the Penguins!) -End Obligatory Humorous Quote-- PGP signature
Re: [linux-lvm] Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
On Thu, 19 Apr 2001, Andreas Dilger wrote: I don't think that the subscription is necessarily the only issue. I'm subscribed to all of the LVM mailing lists, and still a lot of what I submit (legitimate bug fixes, and not just features/code cleanup) does not get added to CVS. Yes, the no-possible-harm patches like man pages went in, but not other stuff. Also, it doesn't appear that any of the LVM changes are making it into the stock kernel, which is basically a recepie for disaster. This is indeed an even bigger problem. LVM is no longer just a Sistina product, it is an integrated part of the Linux kernel. This brings with it the responsability of maintaining the LVM subsystem which is included in the kernel. I understand that Sistina may want to do "LVM releases" every once in a while, but this isn't a development model that makes much sense when their code has been integrated into the Linux kernel (IMHO). The openlvm list may change my mind, I'll see. If you think any other openly accessible LVM development things are needed (maybe a CVS tree which can be used by all LVM developers and not just the Sistina folks?) .. NL.linux.org is all yours. regards, Rik -- Linux MM bugzilla: http://linux-mm.org/bugzilla.shtml Virtual memory is like a game you can't win; However, without VM there's truly nothing to lose... http://www.surriel.com/ http://www.conectiva.com/ http://distro.conectiva.com/ - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [linux-lvm] Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
On Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 01:45:20PM -0600, Andreas Dilger wrote: I don't think that the subscription is necessarily the only issue. I'm subscribed to all of the LVM mailing lists, and still a lot of what I submit (legitimate bug fixes, and not just features/code cleanup) does not get added to CVS. Just alone the fact that you as number one submitter of LVM-bugfixes since at least 0.8 do not get CVS write access is a sign of closedness for me. But we discussed that on the sistina list. Yes, the no-possible-harm patches like man pages went in, but not other stuff. Also, it doesn't appear that any of the LVM changes are making it into the stock kernel, which is basically a recepie for disaster. 100% True. A few days ago I looke at the LVM patches to see what parts of it could be fed to Linus in small pieces - but it's such a _huge_ mixture of bugfixes, cleanups and move-arounds that it looks pretty much impossible. Basically, I'm at the point where trying to create clean patches from my LVM source tree to apply to CVS is so much work it is hardly worth it. IMHO wou should just put _your_ tree on a sever and submit it (in pieces) to Linus. AFAIK all serious users of LVM have used you're patched versions. Maybe openlvm is a good hood for such a project? I'm seriously looking at devoting the time I used to spend on LVM to the EVMS project instead. They (appear to) have in-kernel LVM support working already, so no user tools needed for VG/LV activation. Granted, they don't yet have tools to create/modify VG/LVs, but I think I can help them there. Yes - when looking at what code they produces it looks a _lot_ cleaner than Linux-LVM and while the papers had serious signs of Overengeering the actual code looks very good to me - it could just get a little better integrated with the main kernel, but that's a 2.5 issue. Christoph -- Of course it doesn't work. We've performed a software upgrade. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [linux-lvm] Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
On Thu, Apr 19 2001, AJ Lewis wrote: As far as getting patches into the stock kernel, we've been sending patches to Linus for over a month now, and none of them have made it in. Maybe someone has some pointers on how we get our code past his filters. The diff between 2.4.4-pre LVM and your last beta is HUGE. That's a very good clue why Linus hasn't taken it! Find a bug, fix it, submit diff. Not find lots of bugs for a month, submit huge diff. -- Jens Axboe - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [linux-lvm] Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
As far as getting patches into the stock kernel, we've been sending patches to Linus for over a month now, and none of them have made it in. Maybe someone has some pointers on how we get our code past his filters. Has it occured to you that some of this might be because the code does stuff like hide flags in the low bits of addresses and do unchecked kmallocs ? Things people have tried to send patches for .. The best way to get stuff to Linus is to feed him changes one at a time and make them all clean and clearly correct. When I have a big set of changes I normally start by feeding Linus all the 'fluff' - spelling checks and small warning fixes. After that its normally easy to pick out changes one at a time and feed them on. Given 500 lines of mixed up diff it is very hard to verify the correctness of anything. Alan - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [linux-lvm] Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
AJ Lewis wrote: Ok, the issue here is that we're trying to get a release out and so anything that majorly changes the code is getting shunted aside for the moment. It would be stupid to just add everything that comes in on the ML without review. Linus does the exact same thing. I've said this before to you Andreas, but apparently you feel that you should have final say on whether your patches go in or not. As far as getting patches into the stock kernel, we've been sending patches to Linus for over a month now, and none of them have made it in. Maybe someone has some pointers on how we get our code past his filters. Read Documentation/SubmittingPatches, and also listen to kernel hackers who know the block layer and want to fix lvm. And I wonder, if kernel hackers are saying lvm is broken... why do you want to freeze it and ship it in that state? -- Jeff Garzik | "The universe is like a safe to which there is a Building 1024 | combination -- but the combination is locked up MandrakeSoft | in the safe."-- Peter DeVries - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
AJ Lewis wrote: On Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 08:02:50PM +0100, Alan Cox wrote: Well their approach to patches that fix bugs is to reject emails. They've done that to stuff I've reported any many others. So there is a problem. And its kind of hard to discuss a problem when you are being moderated out of existance. Hmm...i guess there is a communication issue here. It sounds like the message that our ML server was sending was misleading. We were not rejecting mail because of content. The ML server was rejecting it because the address was not subscribed. Our idea was that we don't want spam. If it's completely unmoderated, then we will get a *lot* of spam. Gosh, this seems like a bit of a red herring, IMHO. Do you think the LKML gets a "lot" of spam? Or, how about the linux-usb-devel or linux-hotplug-devel lists? None of these lists are moderated and the occasional spam gets sent to them, but I haven't noticed there being enough spam to hinder the usefulness of these lists. Miles - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [linux-lvm] Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
On Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 04:09:32PM -0400, Jeff Garzik wrote: AJ Lewis wrote: Ok, the issue here is that we're trying to get a release out and so anything that majorly changes the code is getting shunted aside for the moment. It would be stupid to just add everything that comes in on the ML without review. Linus does the exact same thing. I've said this before to you Andreas, but apparently you feel that you should have final say on whether your patches go in or not. As far as getting patches into the stock kernel, we've been sending patches to Linus for over a month now, and none of them have made it in. Maybe someone has some pointers on how we get our code past his filters. Read Documentation/SubmittingPatches, and also listen to kernel hackers who know the block layer and want to fix lvm. And I wonder, if kernel hackers are saying lvm is broken... why do you want to freeze it and ship it in that state? Hmm...perhaps I didn't make myself clear. AFAIK Heinz is not putting cosmetic changes into the CVS. The team should be putting fixes in. If they aren't it's because they are dealing with backlog. As far as the smaller patches go. I know. We're working on it; really we are. Regards, -- AJ Lewis Sistina Software Inc. Voice: 612-379-3951 1313 5th St SE, Suite 111 Fax:612-379-3952 Minneapolis, MN 55414 E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.sistina.com Current GPG fingerprint = 3B5F 6011 5216 76A5 2F6B 52A0 941E 1261 0029 2648 Get my key at: http://www.sistina.com/~lewis/gpgkey (Unfortunately, the PKS-type keyservers do not work with multiple sub-keys) -Begin Obligatory Humorous Quote There's nary an animal alive that can outrun a greased Scotsman. - Groundskeeper Willie -End Obligatory Humorous Quote-- PGP signature
Re: [linux-lvm] Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
Hi AJ, On Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 02:40:15PM -0500, AJ Lewis wrote: The list is now open. I've talked to our admin and he's opening it up. Send me e-mail if it doesn't work, 'cause something else is broken. to me it looks like your reactions are too late. I suggest you Sistina people accept the fact the there is an open list (better) managed by somebody else now and you all move there and use this as a forum for your discussions from now on. Just send the new list admin a list with your people to be subscribed ... and I can not imagine they will refuse to help you. (Otherwise they would be as closed-minded as you were.) Maintaining a project which got integrated into the kernel and forms a critical part of it (if there are bugs) is not an easy thing to do, and you should expect controversary discussions. On the one hand you want to fix things and introduce small and large improvements, on the other hand you don't want to take risks. Just get used to it. You'll always have a newer version to test than the one in the kernel. However, it works best if you try to submit your changes as often as possible. Of course I know, this is close to impossible when you have to redesign stuff and have to wait for stabilization ... Good luck! -- Kurt Garloff [EMAIL PROTECTED] Eindhoven, NL GPG key: See mail header, key servers Linux kernel development SuSE GmbH, Nuernberg, FRG SCSI, Security PGP signature
Re: [linux-lvm] Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
Alan Cox wrote: As far as getting patches into the stock kernel, we've been sending patches to Linus for over a month now, and none of them have made it in. Maybe someone has some pointers on how we get our code past his filters. Has it occured to you that some of this might be because the code does stuff like hide flags in the low bits of addresses and do unchecked kmallocs ? Things people have tried to send patches for .. The best way to get stuff to Linus is to feed him changes one at a time and make them all clean and clearly correct. When I have a big set of changes I normally start by feeding Linus all the 'fluff' - spelling checks and small warning fixes. After that its normally easy to pick out changes one at a time and feed them on. Given 500 lines of mixed up diff it is very hard to verify the correctness of anything. The IrDA folks have had a similar struggle. AJ, perhaps it would be helpful for you to read the discussion that took place regarding getting a bunch of IrDA code merged into the 2.4 tree: http://www.pasta.cs.uit.no/pipermail/linux-irda/2000-November/001923.html Dag Brattli [EMAIL PROTECTED] eventually had a discussion with Linus and hashed out what he needed to do to get Linus to accept his big patch. It all worked out very well, IIRC. Miles - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [linux-lvm] Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
AJ writes: Ok, the issue here is that we're trying to get a release out and so anything that majorly changes the code is getting shunted aside for the moment. Actually, the whole idea of "trying to get a release out" is part of the problem. If patches were included into CVS and sent sent to Linus as they arrived we wouldn't be in this situation. My take on this is that holding back legitimate patches "to get the release out" ends up accumulating so many changes that it is impossible to sync up later. The Linux kernel is a successful project because Linus generally accepts everything that is a bug fix or code cleanup (features are another matter, but very little if any of the patches I send you are "features"). It would be stupid to just add everything that comes in on the ML without review. Linus does the exact same thing. Yes, it would be stupid to "just accept everything" that is sent to the mailing list, but really, I've done a pretty good job of submitting patches in small, self-contained pieces IMHO (even if it happens that I send a lot of such patches at one time). I mean the code has to be cleaned up at some time, so we may as well do it sooner rather than later. I've said this before to you Andreas, but apparently you feel that you should have final say on whether your patches go in or not. Well, I would hope that given the fact I've been working on LVM considerably longer than anyone else at Sistina (excluding Heinz) that you might just trust my judgement a bit more. I'm _trying_ to contribute to LVM, and do so in easy-to-digest pieces, but given that it is hard to get patches into CVS, and my codebase is increasingly divergent from your CVS tree. I have better ways to spend my time than going through 10,000 lines of diff and guessing which parts are new, and which parts have been held of "for the next release". The EVMS code is starting out clean, and I hope I can help keep it that way. As far as getting patches into the stock kernel, we've been sending patches to Linus for over a month now, and none of them have made it in. Maybe someone has some pointers on how we get our code past his filters. That's because the "release" patches are too huge now. If it were up to me, and I've asked you a couple of times on this, I would have already sent a whole bunch of bug fixes to Linus as small, self-contained patches. However, I held back because you asked me not to send patches to Linus directly. Cheers, Andreas -- Andreas Dilger \ "If a man ate a pound of pasta and a pound of antipasto, \ would they cancel out, leaving him still hungry?" http://www-mddsp.enel.ucalgary.ca/People/adilger/ -- Dogbert - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [linux-lvm] Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
On Thu, 19 Apr 2001, Andreas Dilger wrote: went in, but not other stuff. Also, it doesn't appear that any of the LVM changes are making it into the stock kernel, which is basically a recepie for disaster. agreed... after the problematic inclusion of 0.9 into the kernel i asked on sistina LVM list whether they could try to be a bit more proactive about feeding patches on to linus, to make life easier for LVM users - they had fixes for the problems of 0.9 but never, and still to this day have not, fed the code on. Still to this day, nothing from them but announcements on l-k of various betas. AFAIK all the patches for LVM submitted to linus since 0.8 went in have been from core linux developers (Andrea, Jens, etc.), not sistina. shame... their LVM is really nice to use. Just frustrating that they do want to feed the code on... more frustrating still when you consider the lobbying that went on to try persuade l-k that LVM should go in. Cheers, Andreas obHiddenCode: lm-sensors... used to use this a long time ago. regards, -- Paul Jakma [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] PGP5 key: http://www.clubi.ie/jakma/publickey.txt --- Fortune: Happiness is twin floppies. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [repost] Announce: Linux-OpenLVM mailing list
Dear Sistina: I know very little about LVM, but from watching earlier projects in the same situation you're in now, the path you need to follow seems clear: Stop using CVS internally for development. It makes checking in changes without submitting them to Linus too easy. To get sync'd back up, *start with the standard kernel*, and start generating clean, human-understandable patches one at a time that bring it up to where you want. Once you've achieved that, have your programmers generate patches rather than checking in to CVS, and feed the patches to Linus at the same time you hand them out to your other programmers. Individual programmers may need to do more testing this way, but c'est la vie. This is the only way to achieve union with the standard kernel. So many projects have failed to learn this lesson... ignore it at your peril. - Dan - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
