Re: The Free Software Foundation's open letter to the UnitedLinux Board
insesant wisecraks? what the hack is that? doens't seem to be english. oh.. I never knew the Love is with UL now was a rumour. sorry about that. Isn't UL more related to electricity? it's on the back my power supply, and my monitor. :) Do you understand that Ransom Love IS NOT A PART OF UNITED LINUX AT ALL? Why make statements when you obviously don't know the facts. Agreed 100%. m.w., you're making a fool of yourself with your insesant wisecraks regarding Ransom Love. -- Swiftly. Silently. Invisibly. .~. In Linux we trust. / v \ news://news.hkpcug.org /( _ )\ http://www.linux-sxs.org ^ ^ ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: iptables log analysis
a piece of cake for me if I use clipper/foxpro and even C. # chkhit /var/log/messages port,hits 25,10 139,1 6112,20 # -- Swiftly. Silently. Invisibly. .~. In Linux we trust. / v \ news://news.hkpcug.org /( _ )\ http://www.linux-sxs.org ^ ^ ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: The Free Software Foundation's open letter to the UnitedLinuxBoard
Send me some of that shit you're smoking. On Fri, 20 Sep 2002 15:36:27 +0800 m.w.chang [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: insesant wisecraks? what the hack is that? doens't seem to be english. oh.. I never knew the Love is with UL now was a rumour. sorry about that. Isn't UL more related to electricity? it's on the back my power supply, and my monitor. :) Do you understand that Ransom Love IS NOT A PART OF UNITED LINUX AT ALL? Why make statements when you obviously don't know the facts. Agreed 100%. m.w., you're making a fool of yourself with your insesant wisecraks regarding Ransom Love. -- Swiftly. Silently. Invisibly. .~. In Linux we trust. / v \ news://news.hkpcug.org /( _ )\ http://www.linux-sxs.org ^ ^ ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: small computer
always that little gotcha somewhere. On Thu, 19 Sep 2002 12:37:58 +0200 Roger Oberholtzer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I asked. I have seen this. It is quite nice. The proviso on my question was that it had to hold a full length PCI card. On Thu, 19 Sep 2002 05:22:13 -0500 ronnie gauthier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A while ago someone had asked about small sized computer boxes. You could darn near slip this one in your pocket. ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
system crashed?
out of boredom, I did these, over the openssh connection: cd /proc cd devices cat * ... connection to server lost after a few minutes, I telnet back to my server at port 23. got this: ISS Telnet Configuration Please enter password: I am still in the office, so didn't know what really happened. maybe the system has rebooted and the original IP was taken by someone else. -- Swiftly. Silently. Invisibly. .~. In Linux we trust. / v \ news://news.hkpcug.org /( _ )\ http://www.linux-sxs.org ^ ^ ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: The Free Software Foundation's open letter to the UnitedLinux Board
ok, this stuff should do it: Virtual Keyboard: http://www.canesta.com/videos/keyboard.asf http://www.canesta.com/chipset.htm ronnie gauthier wrote: Send me some of that shit you're smoking. -- Swiftly. Silently. Invisibly. .~. In Linux we trust. / v \ news://news.hkpcug.org /( _ )\ http://www.linux-sxs.org ^ ^ ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: small computer
On Fri, 20 Sep 2002 03:10:11 -0500 ronnie gauthier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: always that little gotcha somewhere. More than little. It is a real problem. We use a DSP card that is this size. And this size is getting very unpopular. Fewer and fewer boxes support it. The ones that do seem to go to the extreme. Oddly, both Dell and IBM have 1U serveres that will hold such a card. Thin, but 60CM deep. On Thu, 19 Sep 2002 12:37:58 +0200 Roger Oberholtzer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I asked. I have seen this. It is quite nice. The proviso on my question was that it had to hold a full length PCI card. -- ++===+ | Roger Oberholtzer | E-mail:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | | OPQ Systems AB | WWW: http://www.opq.se/ | | Erik Dahlbergsgatan 41-43 |Phone: Int + 46 8 314223 | | 115 32 Stockholm | Mobile: Int + 46 733 621657 | | Sweden | Fax: Int + 46 8 302602 | ++===+ ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: iptables log analysis
On Fri, 20 Sep 2002 11:27:55 +0800 begin m.w.chang [EMAIL PROTECTED] spewed forth: anyone got an *existing* script that could list the ports being blocked by iptables in /var/log/messages plus the number of hits. like this: # chkhit /var/log/messages port,hits 25,10 139,1 6112,20 # sorting is not important. I think I need to use perl if I am to write one. can I do it with bash+utils only? I don't have one for your system, but if you post the iptables LOG rule, and/or one of the lines from /var/log/messages you're interested in, a script can be easily done. I have a few that probably just need modification for your purposes. Ciao, David A. Bandel -- Focus on the dream, not the competition. -- Nemesis Racing Team motto ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Update GCC from 2.95.2: 2.95.3, 3.1.1, or 3.2?
Well, if you must know, I've considered GenToo, but I want something that I can get up and running fairly quickly, as I've other users to be concerned about. Once I have RedHat 7.3 running, I'll have another spare partition to experiment with. But I think I'll take a whack at LFS and BLFS rather than GenToo. That looks like it'd be more fun :-), and it can be built without rebooting. hmmm, I wonder if you can install GenToo in a chrooted environment...ie, build LFS, then chroot to the LFS base install and install GenToo. Regards, Tim On 9/20/2002 12:26 AM, someone claiming to be Tom Jandl wrote: How about Gentoo, Tim? It's fast easy after the pain of the base install is over. My eWS 3.1.1 is permanently *nuked* Tom Jandl - Original Message - From: Tim Wunder [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 10:22 PM Subject: Re: Update GCC from 2.95.2: 2.95.3, 3.1.1, or 3.2? On Thursday 19 September 2002 10:03 pm, Jerry McBride wrote: On Thu, 19 Sep 2002 21:58:41 -0400 Tim Wunder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thursday 19 September 2002 09:50 pm, Jerry McBride wrote: snip My advice is... go back to the distribution cd, re-install all that you suspect is broken. arggg! Installing the glibc2.2.4 rpms from eW3.1.1 resulted in an unusable system, repaired with the linuxcare emergency boot disk (thanks Lonnie). I give up... RedHat 7.3, here I come. Many thanks to those who've tried to help me thru this. snip ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Updated Step
Doug Hunley has just updated http://www.linux-sxs.org/razor.html to incorporate the following: Updated for configuration of new version 2 ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: system crashed?
it really crashed the system. pondering why... cd /proc cd devices cat * connection to server lost -- .~.Swiftly. Silently. Invisibly. In Linux we trust. / v \ news://news.hkpcug.org /( _ )\ http://www.linux-sxs.org ^ ^2.4.19 7:45pm up 14 min, 0 users, load average: 1.00, 1.04, 0.71 ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: iptables log analysis
I just need example to get started. my perl is really weak despite of my agiility in foxpro and c. Sep 20 19:51:44 server kernel: iptables IN=ppp0 OUT= MAC= SRC=64.4.13.202 DST=218.102.112.235 LEN=40 TOS=0x00 PREC=0x00 TTL=119 ID=17967 PROTO=TCP SPT=1863 DPT=3018 WINDOW=16821 RES=0x00 ACK FIN RGP=0 that's one sample entry. I will proces the line with DPT= and then plot number of hits vs port number. that's more useful and interesting than browing the whole log file. # chkhit /var/log/messages port,hits 25,10 139,1 6112,20 # I have a few that probably just need modification for your purposes. -- .~.Swiftly. Silently. Invisibly. In Linux we trust. / v \ news://news.hkpcug.org /( _ )\ http://www.linux-sxs.org ^ ^2.4.19 7:45pm up 14 min, 0 users, load average: 1.00, 1.04, 0.71 ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Update GCC from 2.95.2: 2.95.3, 3.1.1, or 3.2?
On Fri, 20 Sep 2002 07:54:46 -0400 Tim Wunder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, if you must know, I've considered GenToo, but I want something that I can get up and running fairly quickly, as I've other users to be concerned about. Once I have RedHat 7.3 running, I'll have another spare partition to experiment with. But I think I'll take a whack at LFS and BLFS rather than GenToo. That looks like it'd be more fun :-), and it can be built without rebooting. Not quite shure what you are driving at here??? Both LFS and gentoo can be built without rebooting. hmmm, I wonder if you can install GenToo in a chrooted environment...ie, build LFS, then chroot to the LFS base install and install GenToo. This sound incredibly hokey!!! And the reason you would want to try installing gentoo using a doubly chrooted environment from LFS is??? Gentoo always installs using a chrooted environment as does LFS, but why on earth would you want to use one or the other to install the other one? If you want LFS or gentoo, set yourself up a partition for each, install each from your running system using a spare tty, and alter your lilo/grup setup after the installs are complete. -- Collins Richey - Denver Area - WWTLRD? - Code Python gentoo(since 01/01/01) now 1.4beta kernel 2.4.18+ ext3 GCC3.2 xfce-sylpheed-skipstone ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: unitedlinux news conference
That is if you do a fresh 8.0 install. I upgraded this boxen from SuSe 7.3 to 8.0 and it kept all the SuSEconfig stuff, as well as the dependancies on it. I have stumbled across on 8.0, that you can turn of all SuSEconfig checking as well as it checkperms stuff. But it then tells you you will not get any SuSE support after doing that. Douglas J Hunley wrote: SNIP you are correct. SuSEconfig is the culprit. and with the 8.0, there is no more monolithic config file. 8.1 (released in upcoming Oct) will be evern less monolithic config and damn near 100$ FHS/LSB compliant - -- SNIP -- Ben Duncan Phone (601)-355-2574 Fax (601)-355-2573 Cell (601)-946-1220 Business Network Solutions 336 Elton Road Jackson MS, 39212 Software is like Sex, it is better when it's free - Linus Torvalds ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Update GCC from 2.95.2: 2.95.3, 3.1.1, or 3.2?
On Fri, 2002-09-20 at 13:39, Tim Wunder wrote: On 9/20/2002 2:34 AM, someone claiming to be Collins wrote: snipped Gentoo always installs using a chrooted environment as does LFS, but why on earth would you want to use one or the other to install the other one? If you want LFS or gentoo, set yourself up a partition for each, install each from your running system using a spare tty, and alter your lilo/grup setup after the installs are complete. OK. From what I've read on GenToo, I need to boot into it to install. If I can install GenToo in a spare partition while keeping my *real* system running, I'm interested. Please enlighten me further. Ping me off list if you like. Pretty simple- create a filesystem on the spare partition, mount the Gentoo CD and the new filesystem, cd to the new filesystem, unpack the stage1, 2, or 3 tarball of your choice from the CD into the new partition, and chroot to your Gentoo partition. Then you get to start downloading the portage tree, bootstrapping, building a new kernel, and having fun seeing what packages are there (my favorite ebuilds for KDE CVS will probably never make it into the portage tree). Bob Raymond ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: unitedlinux news conference
Did anybody else get two copies of this e-mail? On 9/20/2002 8:49 AM, someone claiming to be Ben Duncan wrote: That is if you do a fresh 8.0 install. I upgraded this boxen from SuSe 7.3 to 8.0 and it kept all the SuSEconfig stuff, as well as the dependancies on it. I have stumbled across on 8.0, that you can turn of all SuSEconfig checking as well as it checkperms stuff. But it then tells you you will not get any SuSE support after doing that. Douglas J Hunley wrote: SNIP you are correct. SuSEconfig is the culprit. and with the 8.0, there is no more monolithic config file. 8.1 (released in upcoming Oct) will be evern less monolithic config and damn near 100$ FHS/LSB compliant - -- SNIP ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: unitedlinux news conference
On Fri, Sep 20, 2002 at 08:55:26AM -0400, Tim Wunder wrote: Did anybody else get two copies of this e-mail? [snippage] Yes. Kurt ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: system crashed?
On Fri, Sep 20, 2002 at 08:00:01PM +0800, m.w.chang wrote: it really crashed the system. pondering why... cd /proc cd devices cat * connection to server lost Hmm. On my systems, /proc/devices is a file, not a directory. K ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: unitedlinux news conference
On Fri, 2002-09-20 at 13:55, Tim Wunder wrote: Did anybody else get two copies of this e-mail? yes ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Intel LaGrande
On Friday 20 September 2002 07:21 am,dep wrote: the other shoe has dropped: Advanced Micro Devices will include Microsoft's Palladium trusted -- meaning Microsoft- approved software only -- support in its next generation of chips, according to published reports. http://www.linuxandmain.com/modules.php?name=Newsfile=articlesid=23 2 I think I would like to be an European chip manufacturer at this point. Looks like the entire continent as a market. Maybe even a good chunk of the American continent, too. Where is Transmeta when we need them?? -- Tony Alfrey [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'd rather be sailing ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Intel LaGrande
So... maybe the opportunity VIA needs? Besides furnishing chips for the $200.00 Lindows system Walmart sells At 10:21 AM 9/20/02 -0400, dep wrote: the other shoe has dropped: Advanced Micro Devices will include Microsoft's Palladium trusted -- meaning Microsoft- approved software only -- support in its next generation of chips, according to published reports. http://www.linuxandmain.com/modules.php?name=Newsfile=articlesid=232 -- dep http://www.linuxandmain.com -- outside the box, barely within the envelope, and no animated paperclip anywhere. Stuart Biggerstaff Linda Hall Library of Science Engineering Technology 5109 Cherry St. Kansas City, MO 64110 Phone: (816) 926-8748 (800) 662-1545 x748 FAX:(816) 926-8785 URL:www.lindahall.org ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: unitedlinux news conference
I sent it and got back 2 as well hmmm If this gives 2, maybe my ISP got problems OR Maybe bouncing from the EDI list ? Ben Duncan wrote: That is if you do a fresh 8.0 install. I upgraded this boxen from SuSe 7.3 to 8.0 and it kept all the SuSEconfig stuff, as well as the dependancies on it. I have stumbled across on 8.0, that you can turn of all SuSEconfig checking as well as it checkperms stuff. But it then tells you you will not get any SuSE support after doing that. Douglas J Hunley wrote: SNIP you are correct. SuSEconfig is the culprit. and with the 8.0, there is no more monolithic config file. 8.1 (released in upcoming Oct) will be evern less monolithic config and damn near 100$ FHS/LSB compliant - -- SNIP -- Ben Duncan Phone (601)-355-2574 Fax (601)-355-2573 Cell (601)-946-1220 Business Network Solutions 336 Elton Road Jackson MS, 39212 Software is like Sex, it is better when it's free - Linus Torvalds ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: grub splash screens revisited
On Thursday 19 September 2002 22:54, Douglas J Hunley wrote: argh! screenshots man! screenshots! I'm not gonna reboot just to see what they are! of course, I could just unzip them and load them in an image viewer, but where's the fun in that? I really would have liked to supply screenshots, believe me. But they should be genuine, ie showing the images with the real Grub menu. I would greatly appreciate if someone told me how to do that. I can imagine at least four possible ways, none of them really viable for me: 1. Take a shot of the native Grub boot screen - but how to accomplish that without a real OS running? 2. Simulate the boot screen in a linux terminal. You can use the Grub command 'configfile=' to display the boot menu, but the splash screen doesn't get loaded. 3. Take a real photograph from the boot screen - but I don't have a digital camera. 4. Place the computer monitor displaying the Grub screen onto an office copier or scanner ;-) Klaus ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Update GCC from 2.95.2: 2.95.3, 3.1.1, or 3.2?
On Fri, 20 Sep 2002, Tim Wunder wrote: Well, if you must know, I've considered GenToo, but I want something that I can get up and running fairly quickly, as I've other users to be concerned about. Once I have RedHat 7.3 running, I'll have another spare partition to experiment with. But I think I'll take a whack at LFS and BLFS rather than GenToo. That looks like it'd be more fun :-), and it can be built without rebooting. hmmm, I wonder if you can install GenToo in a chrooted environment...ie, build LFS, then chroot to the LFS base install and install GenToo. User-mode-Linux is what you should use, if you want to go that route. chroot'd linux install don't behave or perform well. -- ~~ Lonni J Friedman[EMAIL PROTECTED] Linux Step-by-step TyGeMo http://netllama.ipfox.com ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Intel LaGrande
On Fri, 20 Sep 2002, Tony Alfrey wrote: On Friday 20 September 2002 07:21 am,dep wrote: the other shoe has dropped: Advanced Micro Devices will include Microsoft's Palladium trusted -- meaning Microsoft- approved software only -- support in its next generation of chips, according to published reports. http://www.linuxandmain.com/modules.php?name=Newsfile=articlesid=23 2 I think I would like to be an European chip manufacturer at this point. Looks like the entire continent as a market. Maybe even a good chunk of the American continent, too. Where is Transmeta when we need them?? ON the verge of bankruptcy, i'm afraid. -- ~~ Lonni J Friedman[EMAIL PROTECTED] Linux Step-by-step TyGeMo http://netllama.ipfox.com ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: unitedlinux news conference
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Ben Duncan spewed electrons into the ether that resembled: I sent it and got back 2 as well hmmm If this gives 2, maybe my ISP got problems OR Maybe bouncing from the EDI list ? the edi list has *nothing* to do with this list. that's not it - -- Douglas J Hunley (doug at hunley.homeip.net) - Linux User #174778 Admin: Linux StepByStep - http://www.linux-sxs.org and http://jobs.linux-sxs.org panic(Unable to find empty mailbox for aha1542.\n); 2.2.16 /usr/src/linux/drivers/scsi/aha1542.c -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE9iz/0SrrWWknCnMIRAnElAKCrYPG2iRuZB8U3MQkD78TpjDLMngCgy5o1 Aye/yoP7dqkb3C90/gnE/SE= =e46s -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: The Free Software Foundation's open letter to the UnitedLinuxBoard
Ah, the famous sniff of fools, sails again. On Fri, 20 Sep 2002 16:12:33 +0800 m.w.chang [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: no way, mon ami. besidse, sniff, not smoke. will inhale better. ronnie gauthier wrote: Send me some of that shit you're smoking. insesant wisecraks? what the hack is that? doens't seem to be english. oh.. I never knew the Love is with UL now was a rumour. sorry about that. -- Swiftly. Silently. Invisibly. .~. In Linux we trust. / v \ news://news.hkpcug.org /( _ )\ http://www.linux-sxs.org ^ ^ ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Intel LaGrande
On Friday 20 September 2002 3:21 pm, dep wrote: the other shoe has dropped: Advanced Micro Devices will include Microsoft's Palladium trusted -- meaning Microsoft- approved software only -- support in its next generation of chips, according to published reports. http://www.linuxandmain.com/modules.php?name=Newsfile=articlesid=232 I don't quite understand what the fuss is all about, to quote from MS's http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/features/2002/jul02/0724palladiumwp.asp Core Principles of the Palladium Initiative Development of Palladium is guided by important business and technical imperatives and assumptions. Among these are the following: A Palladium-enhanced computer must continue to run any existing applications and device drivers. Palladium is not a separate operating system. It is based on architectural enhancements to the Windows kernel and to computer hardware, including the CPU, peripherals and chipsets, to create a new trusted execution subsystem (see Figure 1). Palladium will not eliminate any features of Windows that users have come to rely on; everything that runs today will continue to run with Palladium. In addition, Palladium does not change what can be programmed or run on the computing platform; it simply changes what can be believed about programs, and the durability of those beliefs. Moreover, Palladium will operate with any program the user specifies while maintaining security. And later.. Palladium is an opt-in system. Palladium is entirely an opt-in solution; systems will ship with the Palladium hardware and software features turned off. The user of the system can choose to simply stay with this default setting, leaving all Palladium-related capabilities (hardware and software) disabled. Turning Palladium completely off includes turning it off in hardware, which prevents any software from turning it back on. Users have the ultimate control over their systems and their information; Palladium does not entail any global requirements. -- Pam R: Don't put off until tomorrow what you can leave to the day after. Linux StepbyStep: http://www.linux-sxs.org/stepbystep.html ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Intel LaGrande
On Friday 20 September 2002 10:44 am,Pam R wrote: snip Palladium is an opt-in system. Palladium is entirely an opt-in solution; systems will ship with the Palladium hardware and software features turned off. The user of the system can choose to simply stay with this default setting, leaving all Palladium-related capabilities (hardware and software) disabled. For now. Forgive me, but I'm paranoid. It seems like it's not much of a step to make this permanent. -- Tony Alfrey [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'd rather be sailing ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
RE: Intel LaGrande
Pam, I don't quite understand what the fuss is all about, to quote from MS's http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/features/2002/jul02/0724pal ladiumwp.asp SNIP Palladium is an opt-in system. SNIP Turning Palladium completely off includes turning it off in hardware, which prevents any software from turning it back on. Users have the ultimate control over their systems and their information; Palladium does not entail any global requirements. I'm afraid we colonials quit believing those kinds of lines when someone told us they'd never tax our tea. ;-} RANT Seriously, though, unless I inspect the microcode in the chip I won't believe that it can be turned off in such a manner that it won't look for compatible software on the machine. Without that assurance, it doesn't matter what off means. The people proposing Palladium have proven over and over again that they cannot be trusted with security measures. When I run their software (as I must at work) I am continually confounded by the attitude that they *know* what is best for me, regardless of what options I have selected. I've yet to meet a customer who demanded a back door in their software that allows hackers (and the control-freak corporation) to come in and fix things when no one is looking. /RANT Those new Macs are looking better. Especially since you never have to worry about the IRQs. In Harmony's Way, and In A Chord, Tom :-}) Thomas A. Condon Barbershop Bass Singer Registered Linux User #154358 A Jester Unemployed ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Intel LaGrande
Who was it who remarked to the effect that 'a merchant would sell the rope to be used at his own hanging'? R -- http://www.quen.net Fix reason firmly in her seat and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there is one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear. --Thomas Jefferson ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Intel LaGrande
Lenin. Joel On Fri, Sep 20, 2002 at 05:32:56PM -0500, R. Quenett wrote: Who was it who remarked to the effect that 'a merchant would sell the rope to be used at his own hanging'? R -- http://www.quen.net Fix reason firmly in her seat and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there is one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear. --Thomas Jefferson ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Intel LaGrande
If the Hollings's bill ever gets passed it would be a federal offense to run thwe chip with Palladium switched off. Tony Alfrey wrote: On Friday 20 September 2002 10:44 am,Pam R wrote: snip Palladium is an opt-in system. Palladium is entirely an opt-in solution; systems will ship with the Palladium hardware and software features turned off. The user of the system can choose to simply stay with this default setting, leaving all Palladium-related capabilities (hardware and software) disabled. For now. Forgive me, but I'm paranoid. It seems like it's not much of a step to make this permanent. -- Tony Alfrey [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'd rather be sailing ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Intel LaGrande
from Joel Hammer: Lenin. Fitting. Thanks. R -- http://www.quen.net Fix reason firmly in her seat and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there is one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear. --Thomas Jefferson ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Intel LaGrande
R. Quenett wrote: Who was it who remarked to the effect that 'a merchant would sell the rope to be used at his own hanging'? R -- http://www.quen.net\ That was Lenin, when we hang the last capitalist he will supply the rope. Lee Fix reason firmly in her seat and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there is one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear. --Thomas Jefferson ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Questions hindering my use of Linux
Dear Group: I have a few questions I am trying to resolve, in my use of linux. First, for those curious, I am running Caldera Open Linux Workstation 3.1, on a Pentium II machine, with 296mb ram. Here are my problems: When rebooting, I end up with a system frozen with the following as the last line: Sending all processes the TERM signal. How do I get around this, so that my system will in fact shut down and then reboot? more to come ... Bonez ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Intel LaGrande
It may be optional now but as soon as they can MS will make it non-optional. That's what they've done for everything so far - once they got the software market sewed up they hiked prices and but the screws to everyone. If you look at what it is it's typical MS - a nonsolution to a problem that they caused. They can't do secure operating systems (or any software for that matter) so now they are going to try and have the hardware make up for thier ineptness. Pam R wrote: On Friday 20 September 2002 3:21 pm, dep wrote: the other shoe has dropped: Advanced Micro Devices will include Microsoft's Palladium trusted -- meaning Microsoft- approved software only -- support in its next generation of chips, according to published reports. http://www.linuxandmain.com/modules.php?name=Newsfile=articlesid=232 I don't quite understand what the fuss is all about, to quote from MS's http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/features/2002/jul02/0724palladiumwp.asp -- Brett I. Holcomb [EMAIL PROTECTED] AKA Grunt Registered Linux User #188143 Remove R777 to email ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Questions hindering my use of Linux
Bonez wrote: Dear Group: I have a few questions I am trying to resolve, in my use of linux. First, for those curious, I am running Caldera Open Linux Workstation 3.1, on a Pentium II machine, with 296mb ram. Here are my problems: When rebooting, I end up with a system frozen with the following as the last line: Sending all processes the TERM signal. How do I get around this, so that my system will in fact shut down and then reboot? Sounds like it's shutting down instead of rebooting. Try going to a console as root (su) and typing reboot to see what happens. -- Ken Moffat [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Questions hindering my use of Linux
Ken: I tried that...and it produced the same situation. Someone told me that it might be that i need to add something like 'apm=off' to my lilo boot sequence.. I am not sure though. Scott On Friday 20 September 2002 18:26, you wrote: Bonez wrote: Dear Group: I have a few questions I am trying to resolve, in my use of linux. First, for those curious, I am running Caldera Open Linux Workstation 3.1, on a Pentium II machine, with 296mb ram. Here are my problems: When rebooting, I end up with a system frozen with the following as the last line: Sending all processes the TERM signal. How do I get around this, so that my system will in fact shut down and then reboot? Sounds like it's shutting down instead of rebooting. Try going to a console as root (su) and typing reboot to see what happens. ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Intel LaGrande
from Lee: That was Lenin, when we hang the last capitalist he will supply the rope. Thankyou. That was the thought that popped into my mind when reading the AMD will support Palladium story, but I couldn't remember the source. R -- http://www.quen.net Fix reason firmly in her seat and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there is one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear. --Thomas Jefferson ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Update GCC from 2.95.2: 2.95.3, 3.1.1, or 3.2?
On Friday 20 September 2002 07:54 am, Bob Raymond wrote: On Fri, 2002-09-20 at 13:39, Tim Wunder wrote: snip OK. From what I've read on GenToo, I need to boot into it to install. If I can install GenToo in a spare partition while keeping my *real* system running, I'm interested. Please enlighten me further. Ping me off list if you like. Pretty simple- create a filesystem on the spare partition, mount the Gentoo CD and the new filesystem, cd to the new filesystem, unpack the stage1, 2, or 3 tarball of your choice from the CD into the new partition, and chroot to your Gentoo partition. Then you get to start downloading the portage tree, bootstrapping, building a new kernel, and having fun seeing what packages are there (my favorite ebuilds for KDE CVS will probably never make it into the portage tree). So, if I understand you correctly, I can just make my partitions, unpack the stage3 tarball, chroot to it and accomplish the same thing. Or, do I *really* need the GenToo CD? Regards, Tim -- Caldera eWorkstation 3.1+, kernel 2.4.18-preempt, KDE 3.0.3, Xfree86 4.1.0 8:00pm up 20:46, 2 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 It's what you learn AFTER you know it all that counts ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Update GCC from 2.95.2: 2.95.3, 3.1.1, or 3.2?
Tim Wunder wrote: On Friday 20 September 2002 07:54 am, Bob Raymond wrote: On Fri, 2002-09-20 at 13:39, Tim Wunder wrote: snip OK. From what I've read on GenToo, I need to boot into it to install. If I can install GenToo in a spare partition while keeping my *real* system running, I'm interested. Please enlighten me further. Ping me off list if you like. Pretty simple- create a filesystem on the spare partition, mount the Gentoo CD and the new filesystem, cd to the new filesystem, unpack the stage1, 2, or 3 tarball of your choice from the CD into the new partition, and chroot to your Gentoo partition. Then you get to start downloading the portage tree, bootstrapping, building a new kernel, and having fun seeing what packages are there (my favorite ebuilds for KDE CVS will probably never make it into the portage tree). So, if I understand you correctly, I can just make my partitions, unpack the stage3 tarball, chroot to it and accomplish the same thing. Or, do I *really* need the GenToo CD? Tim, i'm serious, don't do this. chroot'd linux installs are not a good idea. Things will kinda work, but over time, it will be a disaster of processes dying, poor performance, and screwed up networking. If you want to 'try before you buy', use User Mode Linux to do the Gentoo install. -- ~ L. Friedman[EMAIL PROTECTED] Linux Step-by-step TyGeMo:http://netllama.ipfox.com 6:15pm up 46 days, 2:35, 3 users, load average: 0.03, 0.10, 0.10 ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Update GCC from 2.95.2: 2.95.3, 3.1.1, or 3.2?
On Friday 20 September 2002 09:18 pm, Net Llama! wrote: Tim Wunder wrote: On Friday 20 September 2002 07:54 am, Bob Raymond wrote: On Fri, 2002-09-20 at 13:39, Tim Wunder wrote: snip OK. From what I've read on GenToo, I need to boot into it to install. If I can install GenToo in a spare partition while keeping my *real* system running, I'm interested. Please enlighten me further. Ping me off list if you like. Pretty simple- create a filesystem on the spare partition, mount the Gentoo CD and the new filesystem, cd to the new filesystem, unpack the stage1, 2, or 3 tarball of your choice from the CD into the new partition, and chroot to your Gentoo partition. Then you get to start downloading the portage tree, bootstrapping, building a new kernel, and having fun seeing what packages are there (my favorite ebuilds for KDE CVS will probably never make it into the portage tree). So, if I understand you correctly, I can just make my partitions, unpack the stage3 tarball, chroot to it and accomplish the same thing. Or, do I *really* need the GenToo CD? Tim, i'm serious, don't do this. chroot'd linux installs are not a good idea. Things will kinda work, but over time, it will be a disaster of processes dying, poor performance, and screwed up networking. If you want to 'try before you buy', use User Mode Linux to do the Gentoo install. I'll look thru your step and see how hard installing User Mode Linux will be... with the shape of my gcc/glibc, I'm not sure I'll be able to compile it, though. -- Caldera eWorkstation 3.1+, kernel 2.4.18-preempt, KDE 3.0.3, Xfree86 4.1.0 8:00pm up 20:46, 2 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 It's what you learn AFTER you know it all that counts ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Update GCC from 2.95.2: 2.95.3, 3.1.1, or 3.2?
Tim Wunder wrote: On Friday 20 September 2002 09:18 pm, Net Llama! wrote: Tim Wunder wrote: On Friday 20 September 2002 07:54 am, Bob Raymond wrote: On Fri, 2002-09-20 at 13:39, Tim Wunder wrote: snip OK. From what I've read on GenToo, I need to boot into it to install. If I can install GenToo in a spare partition while keeping my *real* system running, I'm interested. Please enlighten me further. Ping me off list if you like. Pretty simple- create a filesystem on the spare partition, mount the Gentoo CD and the new filesystem, cd to the new filesystem, unpack the stage1, 2, or 3 tarball of your choice from the CD into the new partition, and chroot to your Gentoo partition. Then you get to start downloading the portage tree, bootstrapping, building a new kernel, and having fun seeing what packages are there (my favorite ebuilds for KDE CVS will probably never make it into the portage tree). So, if I understand you correctly, I can just make my partitions, unpack the stage3 tarball, chroot to it and accomplish the same thing. Or, do I *really* need the GenToo CD? Tim, i'm serious, don't do this. chroot'd linux installs are not a good idea. Things will kinda work, but over time, it will be a disaster of processes dying, poor performance, and screwed up networking. If you want to 'try before you buy', use User Mode Linux to do the Gentoo install. I'll look thru your step and see how hard installing User Mode Linux will be... with the shape of my gcc/glibc, I'm not sure I'll be able to compile it, though. There's nothing to compile, they provide RPMs. -- ~ L. Friedman[EMAIL PROTECTED] Linux Step-by-step TyGeMo:http://netllama.ipfox.com 7:00pm up 46 days, 3:20, 3 users, load average: 1.34, 1.10, 0.86 ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: system crashed?
anyway, I would not cat the /proc/devices/00/* again... :) Iit possibly generated some garbbles that crashed the openssh daemon... Kurt Wall wrote: On Fri, Sep 20, 2002 at 08:00:01PM +0800, m.w.chang wrote: it really crashed the system. pondering why... cd /proc cd devices cat * connection to server lost Hmm. On my systems, /proc/devices is a file, not a directory. K -- .~.Swiftly. Silently. Invisibly. In Linux we trust. / v \ news://news.hkpcug.org /( _ )\ http://www.linux-sxs.org ^ ^2.4.19 9:45am up 14:14, 2 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
symbol count in a text file [iptables log]
further to my questino on an analysis tool for iptables log. is there a unix textutils or alike that would count the number of unique symbols in a text file and produce a frequency distribition of them? It should be a common feature in most compilers. I could write one, but just wonder whether the wheel has been available already. with that tool, I could just count the symbol DPT=. Reminded me of the book I dare to read: The C Compiler. Is this a kind of lexical analysis? -- .~.Swiftly. Silently. Invisibly. In Linux we trust. / v \ news://news.hkpcug.org /( _ )\ http://www.linux-sxs.org ^ ^2.4.19 9:45am up 14:14, 2 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: [chat]
bon voyage... ronnie gauthier wrote: Ah, the famous sniff of fools, sails again. no way, mon ami. besidse, sniff, not smoke. will inhale better. -- .~.Swiftly. Silently. Invisibly. In Linux we trust. / v \ news://news.hkpcug.org /( _ )\ http://www.linux-sxs.org ^ ^2.4.19 9:45am up 14:14, 2 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: symbol count in a text file [iptables log]
On Sat, 21 Sep 2002 10:09:40 +0800 begin m.w.chang [EMAIL PROTECTED] spewed forth: further to my questino on an analysis tool for iptables log. is there a unix textutils or alike that would count the number of unique symbols in a text file and produce a frequency distribition of them? It should be a common feature in most compilers. I could write one, but just wonder whether the wheel has been available already. with that tool, I could just count the symbol DPT=. Reminded me of the book I dare to read: The C Compiler. Is this a kind of lexical analysis? grep DPT= /var/log/messages | wc But you'll probably only want one day at a time, in which case, you could pipe the first grep through another grep for the date: grep DPT= /var/log/messages | grep Sep 15 | wc (note, on single digit dates, you need two spaces between the month/day Sep 9) Ciao, David A. Bandel -- Focus on the dream, not the competition. -- Nemesis Racing Team motto ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: iptables log analysis
On Fri, 20 Sep 2002 20:04:49 +0800 begin m.w.chang [EMAIL PROTECTED] spewed forth: I just need example to get started. my perl is really weak despite of my agiility in foxpro and c. Sep 20 19:51:44 server kernel: iptables IN=ppp0 OUT= MAC= SRC=64.4.13.202 DST=218.102.112.235 LEN=40 TOS=0x00 PREC=0x00 TTL=119 ID=17967 PROTO=TCP SPT=1863 DPT=3018 WINDOW=16821 RES=0x00 ACK FIN RGP=0 that's one sample entry. I will proces the line with DPT= and then plot number of hits vs port number. that's more useful and interesting than browing the whole log file. # chkhit /var/log/messages port,hits 25,10 139,1 6112,20 # I have a few that probably just need modification for your purposes. Personally, I'd use cut, sort, wc, grep, and a few others to get it where I wanted it. I'd also do it by date -- i.e., yesterday's date. You could set it up as a cron job and mail it to yourself every morning. The above is fairly easy with standard UNIX tools. Perl will also do the job for you, in fact, there's a few perl modules that may even help: SyslogScan::ParseDate, SyslogScan::SyslogEntry, SyslogScan::Summary, SyslogScan::UnsupportedEntry, and more. Ciao, David A. Bandel -- Focus on the dream, not the competition. -- Nemesis Racing Team motto ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
your broken glibc/atexit problem solution!!!!
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Ok, I have reinstated mention of this on my tweaks page. Hopefully this might assist in stopping many people from building systems with broken glibc's. To reiterate the problem:- * if your Ch 5 gcc build says checking assembler hidden support... no then your glibc is broken. (the glibc function __cxa_atexit will not work properly - run glibc's make check and watch tstcxaatexit fail) * if the binutils version on your *host* system is 2.12.1 or greater then you should be ok - checking assembler hidden support... yes * using the HAVE_GAS_HIDDEN thing even if it does say yes is completely harmless (we end up with HAVE_GAS_HIDDEN defined twice - big deal!) * now that we are passing --enable-__cxa_atexit for gcc, it is vitally important that our __cxa_atexit function in glibc actually works. * if anyone has built a broken glibc then you can possibly get away with just rebuilding glibc with the dynamic gcc again in Ch 6 * I still maintain that the LFS build method is potentially flawed. The *only* thing we build with our static Ch 5 gcc is glibc, the most important lib on the system! The only proper solution in my mind is to build glibc twice in Chapter 6 - at the start and at the end. Greg and further: Is the option --enable-__cxa_atexit for gcc in chapter 5 6 ok ? or should I pass this option only in chapter 6 ? It only affects C++. We don't build a C++ compiler in Ch 5 therefore there is no need to supply the switch in Ch 5. should I append #define HAVE_GAS_HIDDEN 1 to gcc-build/gcc/auto-host.h in chapter 5 ? Yes, only in Ch 5. No need in Ch 6. so, go read the LFS book about installing gcc and glibc and make use of these notes. - -- Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put 'unsubscribe lfs-dev' in the subject header of the message -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE9i/mlSrrWWknCnMIRApnRAJ9zHz+//G3itDDehymIsy8JQ3/kRACgpKfs S/vAK3YdvPNg8KRcVYBVdpw= =bOzu -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: QuickTime 5
On 9/10/02 6:41, Keith Antoine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tuesday 10 September 2002 01:20 pm, Tim Wunder espoused with vigour: Well, she's just starting the class, so I don't have any examples. As a test, I plan on going to http://www2.warnerbros.com/web/movies/index.jsp?frompage=nav to view move trailers. Regards, Tim The best trailers and the most are at apple http://www.apple.com/trailers/ BTW I personally have installed quicktime in both cxoffice and vmware, its never hung with me yet. Could it be to do with H/W or connection ? Quicktime has the best visual quality of all the streaming video players in my opinion. With QuickTime 6 Apple has done a great job, now if they would just port the player to Linux. The have a Linux server for QuickTime media that¹s free. Since they are pushing OSX as a desktop Unix I don't think they will port any of their software to Linux in the near future. -- Ray Russell Mac OS X 10.1.5 ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
