Re: dep, FHS, Slackware
On Sun, 30 Jun 2002 22:05:53 -0700 Ken Moffat [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Collins wrote: Who has a simple howto on maintaining Slack? I'm thinking of something with a database of installed packages, of course. I thought that was 'pkgtool'. Am I mislead again? As root in a terminal type 'pkgtool' and have a look around the installed packages. I don't think you're mislead, but I'm looking for something other than the standard Slack offering, since that only accounts for Slack packages, and there aren't Slack packages for a lot of stuff. -- Collins Richey - Denver Area - WWTLRD? gentoo(since 01/01/01) 2.4.18+(ext3) xfce-sylpheed-mozilla ___ Linux-users mailing list - http://linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users Subscribe/Unsubscribe info, Archives,and Digests are located at the above URL.
Re: dep, FHS, Slackware
On Mon, 1 Jul 2002 09:35:01 -0600 begin Myles Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] spewed forth: On Monday 01 July 2002 05:42, Collins wrote: On Sun, 30 Jun 2002 22:05:53 -0700 Ken Moffat [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Collins wrote: Who has a simple howto on maintaining Slack? I'm thinking of something with a database of installed packages, of course. I thought that was 'pkgtool'. Am I mislead again? As root in a terminal type 'pkgtool' and have a look around the installed packages. I don't think you're mislead, but I'm looking for something other than the standard Slack offering, since that only accounts for Slack packages, and there aren't Slack packages for a lot of stuff. There's always linuxmafia.org for Slackware stuff, you'll find quite a bit there. IIRC, doesn't installwatch handle building slackware .tgz packages? It's been a few months since I used Slack extensively as I've been focusing on Red Hat for the very reasons M. Hipp gave at the start of this thread. You can use either checkinstall (not installwatch) for stuff from source, or use alien to take stuff from RPM and/or DEB. Ciao, David A. Bandel -- Focus on the dream, not the competition. -- Nemesis Racing Team motto ___ Linux-users mailing list - http://linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users Subscribe/Unsubscribe info, Archives,and Digests are located at the above URL.
Re: dep, FHS, Slackware
Let us hope that in making RedHat what it is, that there are still a few heads of importance in RH which will never forget the story of Eve and the Serpent... While this situation is a constant concern, I still believe that RH has enough people (and possibly investors already backing RH) who abhor slavery enough to stave off that opportunity ... These are the hopes of a fool, but I still hold them. On Sun, 30 Jun 2002 20:15:36 -0500 Michael Hipp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: well. that's great for red hat. now. let's suppose that microsoft corporation went to red hat and said we'll pay you one billion dollars to endorse palladium and comply with it. that gives microsoft corporation a hand on the linux plug, to pull as it sees fit. because, as you say, with red hat effectively gone, there would be a handful of disparate distributions, and a wild voice out in the fever swamp someplace howling gentoo over and over. and that would be, pretty much, it. ___ Linux-users mailing list - http://linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users Subscribe/Unsubscribe info, Archives,and Digests are located at the above URL.
Re: dep, FHS, Slackware
They would like nothing better than for Linux to die a quick and miserable death. Many of their biggest clients are choosing Lintel for video animation over their SGI/IRIX systems. No, there is no love to be lost between SGI and Linux... But then, perhaps they'll succumb like Sun has, seeing as Sun is in the same boat. If they DON'T embrace Linux, it will definitely be interesting to see how their business compares to Sun, who has chosen to. On Sun, 30 Jun 2002 23:02:59 -0500 Shawn L Johnston [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I had hoped that SGI might consider creating a linux distro but they've never seemed to show an interest in doing so. I can see why you might choose not to bring up alternatives to Red Hat at this point though. ___ Linux-users mailing list - http://linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users Subscribe/Unsubscribe info, Archives,and Digests are located at the above URL.
Re: dep, FHS, Slackware
Fair enough. On Mon, 1 Jul 2002 16:11:26 -0500 David A. Bandel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That can't be said for openwin. ___ Linux-users mailing list - http://linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users Subscribe/Unsubscribe info, Archives,and Digests are located at the above URL.
Re: dep, FHS, Slackware
Myles Green wrote: There's always linuxmafia.org for Slackware stuff, moved to linuxpackages.net ! ___ Linux-users mailing list - http://linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users Subscribe/Unsubscribe info, Archives,and Digests are located at the above URL.
Re: dep, FHS, Slackware
Collins wrote: On Mon, 1 Jul 2002 13:44:24 -0500 David A. Bandel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You can use either checkinstall (not installwatch) for stuff from source, or use alien to take stuff from RPM and/or DEB. And does either of these solutions provide you with an automatically updated dtabase of installed/deinstalled packages? checkinstall generates RPMs/debs/tarballs (of your preference), which you then install like any other package of that type. -- ~ L. Friedman[EMAIL PROTECTED] Linux Step-by-step TyGeMo:http://netllama.ipfox.com 4:25pm up 73 days, 23:13, 2 users, load average: 0.08, 0.22, 0.36 ___ Linux-users mailing list - http://linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users Subscribe/Unsubscribe info, Archives,and Digests are located at the above URL.
Re: dep, FHS, Slackware
On Mon, 1 Jul 2002 17:25:05 -0600 Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 1 Jul 2002 13:44:24 -0500 David A. Bandel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You can use either checkinstall (not installwatch) for stuff from source, or use alien to take stuff from RPM and/or DEB. And does either of these solutions provide you with an automatically updated dtabase of installed/deinstalled packages? I already know how to do this on my primary distribution - everything I need is built right in. I'm just interested in a real solution to the (as far as I can tell) surprisingly small number of packages I can find packaged for Slack - something that I can run and it (like RPM, or like emerge, or like dpkg) does its work and keeps notes. Otherwise, I'll probably loose interest in my Slack distro really fast. I would think that LFS users face a similar problem. Actually, there are several hints on the lfs website that deal with package management. This one uses a script to keep track of installed files. It's not perfect, but there are others as well. http://hints.linuxfromscratch.org/hints/install-log.txt Bill ___ Linux-users mailing list - http://linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users Subscribe/Unsubscribe info, Archives,and Digests are located at the above URL.
Re: dep, FHS, Slackware
On Mon, 1 Jul 2002 20:20:29 -0400 Bill Davidson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 1 Jul 2002 17:25:05 -0600 Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 1 Jul 2002 13:44:24 -0500 David A. Bandel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You can use either checkinstall (not installwatch) for stuff from source, or use alien to take stuff from RPM and/or DEB. And does either of these solutions provide you with an automatically updated dtabase of installed/deinstalled packages? I already know how to do this on my primary distribution - everything I need is built right in. I'm just interested in a real solution to the (as far as I can tell) surprisingly small number of packages I can find packaged for Slack - something that I can run and it (like RPM, or like emerge, or like dpkg) does its work and keeps notes. Otherwise, I'll probably loose interest in my Slack distro really fast. I would think that LFS users face a similar problem. Actually, there are several hints on the lfs website that deal with package management. This one uses a script to keep track of installed files. It's not perfect, but there are others as well. http://hints.linuxfromscratch.org/hints/install-log.txt Thanks to Bill and Llama for the responses. I will check them out when I have time. -- Collins Richey - Denver Area - WWTLRD? gentoo(since 01/01/01) 2.4.18+(ext3) xfce-sylpheed-mozilla ___ Linux-users mailing list - http://linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users Subscribe/Unsubscribe info, Archives,and Digests are located at the above URL.
Re: dep, FHS, Slackware
On Mon, 1 Jul 2002 17:25:05 -0600 begin Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] spewed forth: On Mon, 1 Jul 2002 13:44:24 -0500 David A. Bandel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 1 Jul 2002 09:35:01 -0600 begin Myles Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] spewed forth: On Monday 01 July 2002 05:42, Collins wrote: On Sun, 30 Jun 2002 22:05:53 -0700 Ken Moffat [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Collins wrote: Who has a simple howto on maintaining Slack? I'm thinking of something with a database of installed packages, of course. I thought that was 'pkgtool'. Am I mislead again? As root in a terminal type 'pkgtool' and have a look around the installed packages. I don't think you're mislead, but I'm looking for something other than the standard Slack offering, since that only accounts for Slack packages, and there aren't Slack packages for a lot of stuff. There's always linuxmafia.org for Slackware stuff, you'll find quite a bit there. IIRC, doesn't installwatch handle building slackware .tgz packages? It's been a few months since I used Slack extensively as I've been focusing on Red Hat for the very reasons M. Hipp gave at the start of this thread. You can use either checkinstall (not installwatch) for stuff from source, or use alien to take stuff from RPM and/or DEB. And does either of these solutions provide you with an automatically updated dtabase of installed/deinstalled packages? I already know how to do this on my primary distribution - everything I need is built right in. checkinstall builds an RPM (or DEB or TGZ) and installs it using the appropriate package manager so the database is current. [snip] Otherwise, I'll probably loose interest in my Slack distro really fast. I would think that LFS users face a similar problem. Duh. I install popt, then rpm, then checkinstall as early on as possible (just after I install db). Then I go back and run checkinstall to create the RPMs for all already installed packages, and as I continue to build, create/install RPMs, all the while updating the database. LFS isn't a real system. It lacks libpam (I install that just before shadow-utils and build shadow w/ PAM), dcron (what's a UNIX system without cron?), db, sendmail, and a passel of other necessary items making RPMs as I go. This allows me to upgrade/remove packages at will. It will give you the same ability w/ Slackware. Ciao, David A. Bandel -- Focus on the dream, not the competition. -- Nemesis Racing Team motto ___ Linux-users mailing list - http://linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users Subscribe/Unsubscribe info, Archives,and Digests are located at the above URL.
Re: dep, FHS, Slackware
On Mon, 1 Jul 2002 20:55:55 -0500 David A. Bandel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 1 Jul 2002 17:25:05 -0600 begin Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] spewed forth: On Mon, 1 Jul 2002 13:44:24 -0500 David A. Bandel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 1 Jul 2002 09:35:01 -0600 begin Myles Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] spewed forth: On Monday 01 July 2002 05:42, Collins wrote: On Sun, 30 Jun 2002 22:05:53 -0700 Ken Moffat [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Collins wrote: Who has a simple howto on maintaining Slack? I'm thinking of something with a database of installed packages, of course. I thought that was 'pkgtool'. Am I mislead again? As root in a terminal type 'pkgtool' and have a look around the installed packages. I don't think you're mislead, but I'm looking for something other than the standard Slack offering, since that only accounts for Slack packages, and there aren't Slack packages for a lot of stuff. There's always linuxmafia.org for Slackware stuff, you'll find quite a bit there. IIRC, doesn't installwatch handle building slackware .tgz packages? It's been a few months since I used Slack extensively as I've been focusing on Red Hat for the very reasons M. Hipp gave at the start of this thread. You can use either checkinstall (not installwatch) for stuff from source, or use alien to take stuff from RPM and/or DEB. And does either of these solutions provide you with an automatically updated dtabase of installed/deinstalled packages? I already know how to do this on my primary distribution - everything I need is built right in. checkinstall builds an RPM (or DEB or TGZ) and installs it using the appropriate package manager so the database is current. [snip] Otherwise, I'll probably loose interest in my Slack distro really fast. I would think that LFS users face a similar problem. Duh. I install popt, then rpm, then checkinstall as early on as possible(just after I install db). Then I go back and run checkinstall to create the RPMs for all already installed packages, and as I continue to build, create/install RPMs, all the while updating the database. LFS isn't a real system. It lacks libpam (I install that just before shadow-utils and build shadow w/ PAM), dcron (what's a UNIX system without cron?), db, sendmail, and a passel of other necessary items making RPMs as I go. This allows me to upgrade/remove packages at will. It will give you the same ability w/ Slackware. Thanks again. Will store these things away for that time when I fel like playing with my Slack distro again. -- Collins Richey - Denver Area - WWTLRD? gentoo(since 01/01/01) 2.4.18+(ext3) xfce-sylpheed-mozilla ___ Linux-users mailing list - http://linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users Subscribe/Unsubscribe info, Archives,and Digests are located at the above URL.
Re: dep, FHS, Slackware
begin Michael Hipp's quote: | I'm curious. What do you find attractive about Slackware? What | causes it to stand out so above the others? it takes other people's system resources seriously, and but for bsd-style init scripts sticks to the fhs. | My (unlearned) impression is it's the one with a face only a mother | could love. And will never be anything more than a curiousity. So | in that way, it's arguably no different than Gentoo. Just older. older sometimes has its advantages -- patrick and his people have been around the block enough to know what they're doing. and i daresay there are several people here who would point out that it is not a curiousity -- at least not in the way gentoo is. | When a commercial client talks to me about Linux. They mean Red Hat | and I don't attempt to persuade them any different. I wouldn't even | bring up Slack, Gentoo or now even Caldera or SuSE. true. not good, but certainly true. | But the real enemy is none of those and you know who I mean. Red | Hat may not be perfect but it beats the alternative. We may be | reluctant to cheer for Red Hat. But at least they're actually *in* | the game. Far more than can be said for any of the others. | Especially now that UnitedNoDesktopsLinux is destined to remembered | only by the size of their smoking hole in the ground. well. that's great for red hat. now. let's suppose that microsoft corporation went to red hat and said we'll pay you one billion dollars to endorse palladium and comply with it. that gives microsoft corporation a hand on the linux plug, to pull as it sees fit. because, as you say, with red hat effectively gone, there would be a handful of disparate distributions, and a wild voice out in the fever swamp someplace howling gentoo over and over. and that would be, pretty much, it. -- dep http://www.linuxandmain.com -- outside the box, barely within the envelope, and no animated paperclip anywhere. ___ Linux-users mailing list - http://linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users Subscribe/Unsubscribe info, Archives,and Digests are located at the above URL.
Re: dep, FHS, Slackware
On Sunday 30 June 2002 07:06 pm, dep wrote: begin Michael Hipp's quote: | I'm curious. What do you find attractive about Slackware? What | causes it to stand out so above the others? it takes other people's system resources seriously, and but for bsd-style init scripts sticks to the fhs. | My (unlearned) impression is it's the one with a face only a mother | could love. And will never be anything more than a curiousity. So | in that way, it's arguably no different than Gentoo. Just older. older sometimes has its advantages -- patrick and his people have been around the block enough to know what they're doing. and i daresay there are several people here who would point out that it is not a curiousity -- at least not in the way gentoo is. Thanks for your thoughts. I have doubts that advocacy of Slackware will accomplish anything much in the long run. But the list of distros worth being excited about seems to shrink by the day so perhaps we should be happy for anything that is somehow worthy of our respect. [snip] | But the real enemy is none of those and you know who I mean. Red | Hat may not be perfect but it beats the alternative. We may be | reluctant to cheer for Red Hat. But at least they're actually *in* | the game. Far more than can be said for any of the others. | Especially now that UnitedNoDesktopsLinux is destined to remembered | only by the size of their smoking hole in the ground. well. that's great for red hat. now. let's suppose that microsoft corporation went to red hat and said we'll pay you one billion dollars to endorse palladium and comply with it. that gives microsoft corporation a hand on the linux plug, to pull as it sees fit. because, as you say, with red hat effectively gone, there would be a handful of disparate distributions, and a wild voice out in the fever swamp someplace howling gentoo over and over. and that would be, pretty much, it. True. And it is scary just how easily that nightmare could come true. Tomorrow even. But it is a thought that our best counter to such a threat is to make Red Hat sufficiently successful that they would never consider having that conversation with Genghis Redmond. A looney idea perhaps but I don't know of a better one. I agree wholeheartedly with your advocacy of FHS and standards. But you appear to be essentially alone. If anyone else is even talking about it much, I haven't heard. Michael ___ Linux-users mailing list - http://linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users Subscribe/Unsubscribe info, Archives,and Digests are located at the above URL.
Re: dep, FHS, Slackware
On Sun, 30 Jun 2002 20:06:17 -0400 begin dep [EMAIL PROTECTED] spewed forth: begin Michael Hipp's quote: | I'm curious. What do you find attractive about Slackware? What | causes it to stand out so above the others? it takes other people's system resources seriously, and but for bsd-style init scripts sticks to the fhs. You can, simply replace the BSD-style scripts with ones of your choosing. Heck, you can even follow other SySV boxes and use /sbin/init.d is you're determined to shoot yourself in the head. Point is, Slack can be made SySV just by ripping out their startup scripts and substituting your own (starting w/ /etc/inittab and progressing through rc.d/ and adding any called scripts in /sbin, like start-stop-daemon or daemon, or whatever). | My (unlearned) impression is it's the one with a face only a mother | could love. And will never be anything more than a curiousity. So | in that way, it's arguably no different than Gentoo. Just older. older sometimes has its advantages -- patrick and his people have been around the block enough to know what they're doing. and i daresay there are several people here who would point out that it is not a curiousity -- at least not in the way gentoo is. I started on Slackware (this was before RH even existed). What I liked about it was it looked and felt almost exactly like my Ultrix and SUN OS 4 (Solaris 1.x) boxes did (SUN switched to SySV w/ SUN OS 5, aka Solaris 2.x). Openwin anyone? Thank God for CDE (not-so-Common Desktop Environment). Openwin, the only desktop worse than M$'. [snip] Ciao, David A. Bandel -- Focus on the dream, not the competition. -- Nemesis Racing Team motto ___ Linux-users mailing list - http://linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users Subscribe/Unsubscribe info, Archives,and Digests are located at the above URL.
Re: dep, FHS, Slackware
On Sun, 30 Jun 2002 19:58:25 -0600 begin Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] spewed forth: On Sun, 30 Jun 2002 20:28:31 -0500 David A. Bandel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [ rest snipped ] Thank God for CDE (not-so-Common Desktop Environment) It's my understanding that xfce has intended from its inception to look a lot like CDE. It looks almost exactly like CDE. That's where the difference ends. Try adding programs to CDE. In fact, try doing much of anything that smacks of customization. No comparison. OTOH, when session management was added, that was a HUGE step backward. I had to write a script for each upgrade to go recursively through users' directories to turn that crap off (or users ended up with 300+ copies of xdaliclock running on their screen). I switched to Blackbox after that. Ciao, David A. Bandel -- Focus on the dream, not the competition. -- Nemesis Racing Team motto ___ Linux-users mailing list - http://linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users Subscribe/Unsubscribe info, Archives,and Digests are located at the above URL.
Re: dep, FHS, Slackware
begin David A. Bandel's quote: | I started on Slackware (this was before RH even existed). What I | liked about it was it looked and felt almost exactly like my Ultrix | and SUN OS 4 (Solaris 1.x) boxes did (SUN switched to SySV w/ SUN | OS 5, aka Solaris 2.x). Openwin anyone? Thank God for CDE | (not-so-Common Desktop Environment). Openwin, the only desktop | worse than M$'. well, there were topview and, on linux, looking glass. i don't guess a lot of either is being sold anymore . . . . . -- dep http://www.linuxandmain.com -- outside the box, barely within the envelope, and no animated paperclip anywhere. ___ Linux-users mailing list - http://linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users Subscribe/Unsubscribe info, Archives,and Digests are located at the above URL.
Re: dep, FHS, Slackware
On Sun, 30 Jun 2002 23:05:03 -0400 begin dep [EMAIL PROTECTED] spewed forth: begin David A. Bandel's quote: | I started on Slackware (this was before RH even existed). What I | liked about it was it looked and felt almost exactly like my Ultrix | and SUN OS 4 (Solaris 1.x) boxes did (SUN switched to SySV w/ SUN | OS 5, aka Solaris 2.x). Openwin anyone? Thank God for CDE | (not-so-Common Desktop Environment). Openwin, the only desktop | worse than M$'. well, there were topview and, on linux, looking glass. i don't guess a lot of either is being sold anymore . . . . . don't think I've ever tried topview. But I did load looking glass (just once, but I didn't inhale, honest). Never looked a second time. I think at the time I was using fvwm and tkdesktop. Ciao, David A. Bandel -- Focus on the dream, not the competition. -- Nemesis Racing Team motto ___ Linux-users mailing list - http://linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users Subscribe/Unsubscribe info, Archives,and Digests are located at the above URL.
Re: dep, FHS, Slackware
On Sunday 30 June 2002 06:39 pm, you wrote: When a commercial client talks to me about Linux. They mean Red Hat and I don't attempt to persuade them any different. I wouldn't even bring up Slack, Gentoo or now even Caldera or SuSE. But the real enemy is none of those and you know who I mean. Red Hat may not be perfect but it beats the alternative. We may be reluctant to cheer for Red Hat. But at least they're actually *in* the game. Far more than can be said for any of the others. Especially now that UnitedNoDesktopsLinux is destined to remembered only by the size of their smoking hole in the ground. I think its a little early to sell the tickets for the UnitedLinux funeral, it should at least be intersting to watch esp. if/when Sun gets in with a linux distro of their own. I had hoped that SGI might consider creating a linux distro but they've never seemed to show an interest in doing so. I can see why you might choose not to bring up alternatives to Red Hat at this point though. Either way it would be a bad thing to have a single linux distro as the only one used in commercial settings. Too little competition breeds poor quality for the customer, i.e. Microsoft. Besides, if Red Hat was really interested in buisness it wouldn't take them 3 months to return a sales call. I know it was just bad luck, but it still left a bad taste in my mouth. ;) Cheers, Shawn ___ Linux-users mailing list - http://linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users Subscribe/Unsubscribe info, Archives,and Digests are located at the above URL.
Re: dep, FHS, Slackware
Collins wrote: Who has a simple howto on maintaining Slack? I'm thinking of something with a database of installed packages, of course. I thought that was 'pkgtool'. Am I mislead again? As root in a terminal type 'pkgtool' and have a look around the installed packages. Ken ___ Linux-users mailing list - http://linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users Subscribe/Unsubscribe info, Archives,and Digests are located at the above URL.
