Re: [WSG] hr won't turn black
currently i am using borders on divs to achieve this effect and you should use borders on the hr as well. the color property changes the text color for the hr, but it doesn't contain any text. give the hr a top or bottom 1px black border, and 0px on the other sides, and it should work. tho i'm not sure i agree with using hr to begin with. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Semantics of P element (?)
I cant seem to find anything Div is generic block.. not generic block of text. Agreed, I worded it badly. It can contain non-text, but doesn't have to. In most cases it groups block elements as for grouping inline there are other dedicated elements as span which is inline itself (so it should be used between inline content) and p block element (so it should be used between block elements) for grouping inline text content. http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/global.html#edef-DIV - see first example over there I'd argue that the example on that page is much more of a paragraph than a date is. XHTML2 is apparently going to fix paragraphs so that they can contain lists, as that example tries to do by using an unclosed p. Paragraph is just separated text content.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paragraph and mind that html is not sophisticated word processor..were paragraph may have more stricter meaning. More precisely, it says it's a self-contained unit of a discourse, and the same website defines discourse as In semantics, discourses are linguistic units composed of several sentences. I'm not sure I completely agree (some paragraphs are only one sentence long, for instance), but surely a paragraph element has more semantic meaning than to separate bits of text from one another, as used to be done with unclosed ps and brs. Also this pages sounds logically to me (while they're not html specs): http://big.faceless.org/products/report/docs/tags/tags/div.html http://big.faceless.org/products/report/docs/tags/tags/p.html I disagree with most of that article. It says headers and blockquotes are subtypes of paragraph elements (where do they get this from?), that all text must be inside paragraphs (what about lists?), and that if you don't enclose text, it's enclosed in an anonymous p tag, inserted by the XML parser itself. Parsers do enclose some text in anonymous block elements, but they're not paragraph elements. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Using my Image replacement technique to create graphic menus
I know some say images are *as good as* text as long as they have the proper ALT attribute. I like text better because I think that putting an image of text into markup is equivalent to putting your font, text color, background, etc, into markup. Both make those attributes impossible to change in the CSS (which makes alternate/user stylesheets REALY fun). 2c *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Safari filter
A site I'm working on has both a screen and a handheld stylesheet. Safari is loading them both, which is causing some major problems. The site is served as xhtml, and the stylesheets are loaded by PIs. Is there any way to filter out the handheld stylesheet from Safari? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: Re: [WSG] Safari filter
I believe that if you order your style sheets, thusly, it might work around the bug: 1. handheld 2. screen It changes quite a bit, but still is messed up. The handheld sheet styles elements that are unstyled in the screen sheet. I could probably fix it by doing the handheld sheet first as you suggest, and then specifying styles in the screen sheet for everything the handheld sheet styled. However, I'd really like to leave browser defaults for the screen sheet on these elements if possible. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: Re: [WSG] Safari filter
FWIW, my experience is that you won't get very far using media types for applying screen versus handheld styles anyway. Internet Explorer Mobile, for one, My Samsung A900's ugly default browser uses handheld stylesheets pretty much flawlessly, seems to just love the xhtml mime type... it just plain respects standards. Considering the quality of IE's -main- browser, I can only imagine how horrible some side-project based off of it is. Luckilly, as far as I know, it doesn't have extremely high market share in that segment. I have an aversion to using the link element for some reason. Actually I think the head and body elements should disappear, and content (and only content) should be directly inside the html element. Hey, I can dream! haha. I think if there's no CSS filter or other relatively easy fix other than not using PIs, I'll just remove one rule from my handheld stylesheet which is causing overlapping text in safari, and let the other bugs (all purely asthetic, colors mostly) stay buggy. If you can, post a link to the page, I'd like to test it in Safari on Panther to see if that version has issues too. http://www.kennygraham.net/wsg_cssd/safaribug/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Safari filter
If it's for your own site then you might as well just do what works for you, but if it's a commercial site, or something you're doing for a client, I'm afraid you're in for a world of pain :-( Luckilly it's a semi-personal site. It's an interface for a database used by me and a large group of friends. That's why I'm able to serve as XHTML. I can just say if you want access, don't use IE. So Safari support isn't a complete necessity, but since it's generally a good browser, I'd rather not discourage its use among my non-nerd friends. But you mentioning that most mobile devices are buggy with styles makes me strongly consider solving all this by simply not using a handheld stylesheet. Because of the type of site it is, styling isn't at all necessary. Each page pretty much consists of: h1, h2, ul, h2, ul, h2, ul. IE may have many more bugs than Safari, but at least there they can be worked around with something as simple as a child selector or a conditional comment. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] testing for mobile browsers
- browsing on a wifi enable mobile ('coz I don't have one)
any thoughts, comparisons, other options...
I use my phone (Samsung A900) since i get data dirt cheap (employee
plan). The differences between the built-in browser and the Opera
Mini i installed are huge. Opera Mini seems to ignore the vast
majority of my styles, and do what it deems best. Probably a good
strategy for the vast majority of sites, but annoying when i go
through the trouble of making a handheld stylesheet.
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[WSG] Navs at bottom of pages
I've noticed many people from this list stil put text-and-broken-pipe navs at the bottom of their pages. Is this still needed? I always thought the reason for it was to have a text version of the main graphics-with-out-alts-in-a-giant-table nav. Is there a reason that I'm missing, or are they just there out of habbit, asthetics, and the like? I can't think of any benefit of having them, and they often suffer from version lag. I just want to make sure I'm not causing any problems by leaving them out. P.S. Am I also correctly remembering the broken pipes being used because of an early netscape bug regarding adjacent links? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Xforms
I just wanted everyone's opinions on Xforms and if you think it is currently worth it to undergo a transition. If you're asking that as a programmer of a web browser, yes. If you're asking that as a web developer, no, since there's little or no user agent support for it yet. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] List headings
This example says the the unordered list fits beneath the hn heading, with all other content below that heading (until new heading found). But what if I want to specify that the heading is for the list only? XHTML2 will take care of this problem for you: section hHigher level heading/h pSome paragraph text goes here/p section hList heading/h ul li/li li/li li/li /ul /section pAssociated with the first heading./p /section Until then, I guess just replace the sections with divs, and make the heading levels explicit. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] what is behaviour what is presentation?
As I understand it, behavior is what happens in response to a user action. For instance, if someone clicks a +, expand this section. I also consider color changes on hover to be behavior, etc. Presentation is just presentation. How it's presented, how it looks (fonts, what sections go where, etc) gmail's not letting me see the body of your email, so I hope my response to the subject line is close enough. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Validation Errors that don't exist - does the validator work?
those aren't errors, they're warnings. it's still validating, and just drawing your attention to things that have the potential to cause problems in some circumstances. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Offlist unscientific poll
Firefox. Opera's better, but I don't find the interface intuitive[1], and I can't block ads. [1] Or maybe it's just that it's not the same as IE/NN/FF/everything-else, and I'm too lazy to learn something new. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Target attribute - coming or going?
No, Stevio was not referring to the :target *pseudo-class* (that's not a property, it's a selector). Stevio was referring to the 'target' *property* in the CSS3 Hyperlink Presentation Module working draft [1], and that proposed property is designed to serve a similar purpose to the target attribute in HTML. [1] http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-hyperlinks/ I kept my mouth shut about the hover pseudo-class, because it was just so convenient. But opening a new window through CSS? That's a bit too much of a mix of presentation and behavior for my taste. Seems we're just moving from (Structure/Presentation) + Behavior, to Structure + (Presentation/Behavior). ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] convert to XHTML
Just a plain text file? If so, then it can't be done, as it won't have any way to infer the semantic meaning of bits of plain text. A non-semantic HTML file? No again, as it won't be able to tell, for instance, if italic text is a citation, emphasized text, etc. Semantic HTML with presentational markup thrown in? It can be done in theory, but good luck. If it could be done automatically, I'd be unemployed. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] tabbing, navigation
Also your navigation (top and side) should probably go in unordered lists. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] IE un-hover
it's one of those problems where minimizing/restoring the window fixes it. so it's definately a rendering bug... but i can't figure out a work-around ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] IE un-hover
Add this 'nonsense' style... A nonsense style for a nonsense browser. Worked like a charm. Thanx :) ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] input
Just plase don't keep a splash screen after the site is completed. Also, if you must keep the binary numbers as link text, you should probably at least put a title attribute on them to describe where they're going. But it looks nice. :) And i'm not sure that entities in an alt attribute are a good idea. Alt attributes are rarely used by people using visual browsers, and only visual browsers would get the effect you want from the and signs. Less than bum labs greater than greater than would sound pretty confusing. Does anyone on here know for sure if entities in alt attributes are even parsed as entities? I'm assuming they are. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Good news
This might already be common knowledge, but I didn't know until I saw this on another list today: -- Forwarded message -- From: Steven Pemberton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Apr 6, 2006 4:54 AM Subject: Re: Question about XHTML 2.0 and content type (PR#7880) To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: www-html-editor@w3.org We have been assured by informed sources that Google will be processing documents served as application/xhtml+xml by this Summer. Best wishes, Steven Pemberton ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] I'm Floating!!
Obviously I could use a floating div tutorial of some sort :). Do you know of any? http://css.maxdesign.com.au/floatutorial/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Forums
Now a web standards forum using slash that'd be interesting. Then again, I'd be modded -1 Troll so maybe a mailing list is best. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Table/fraction markup question
Is there a more semantic way to mark up the table, specifically the fractions? Currently I'm using something along the lines of: supnumerator#8260;denominator34;/sup If you can serve it as XML, then you can use MathML [1], but if you need IE support, your way is probably the best way. [1] http://www.mozilla.org/projects/mathml/demo/mfrac.xhtml ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
