Re: [Live-demo] OSGeo-Live Mission and Future - was BOF

[Cameron Shorter]

Brian,

You have eloquently presented the current state of OSGeo-Live and the 
foundations for future opportunities and growth.


I particularly agree with your caution about creating multiple 
documentation baselines for OSGeo, (it creates a maintenance challenge) 
and the recommendation of retasking the same material in multiple contexts.


Cheers, Cameron


On 5/8/17 9:34 am, Brian M Hamlin wrote:

HI Jody, All -

  In the past with OSGeo-Live, I have described the Mission Statement 
in three parts:


Reference Install ;  Showcase for Projects  ;  well-chosen (curated) 
examples


  WIth the release of Live 11 and the massive advance in Debian 
packaging, I believe the future is not one project. This can be seen 
as "evolution" .. it is natural for a large and mature project to 
split ..

  Website ;  Server Edition  ;  Desktop Linux
-
   with the new OSGeo web site development.. somehow I realized that the
docs from OSGeo-Live should be the same docs in the new OSGeo web 
site. Rebuilding docs is too much work, and too many parts, to 
duplicate. Instead,

build once and deploy in several contexts. -
  credit to Angelos Tzotsos and Debian Developer Sebastian Couwenburg
The "server edition" of OSGeo-Live is simply UbuntuGIS PPA,
with DebianGIS aka pkg-grass as the "upstream" in many cases.. -
  that leaves "desktop Linux" Ubuntu.. what remains of the OSGeo-Live. 
Critically speaking, it has been twenty years (or more) that I have 
been active,
of promises of "desktop Linux" .. in fact, Windows and phones have 
spread,
with some percentage of Mac OSX from Apple in various demographic 
groups. Web browsing is constant, phone use is constant and climbing, 
and .. no desktop
revolution with Linux of any kind.  OSGeo-Live right now, is basically 
desktop Linux. -
 Another note on Ubuntu.. as people likely know, the number one cloud 
VM instance
is Ubuntu.. and last I heard, Google uses an Ubuntu fork for much 
within its cloud walls. The "server edition" of OSGeo-Live is.. Ubuntu 
packaging.. this bodes well.. -


I am interested in participating in a BOF, but from my point of view, 
I think we should
consider the OSGeo-Live 11 as somewhat an "end of an era" .. and move 
forward

with eyes open to new, productive avenues for valuable efforts.
  best regards from Berkeley, California
   -Brian M Hamlin


On Fri, 4 Aug 2017 15:41:07 -0700, Jody Garnett 
 wrote:


Is anyone up for an OSGeo Live BOF:
Also I finally uploaded photos with the OSGeo-Live team from foss4ge:
(example|example|group). Could I ask the team to select one of these 
for a group photo for the new website?


Had a productive meeting with the graphics designer about subbrands on 
wednesday - and had a good ideas for us to try out: rather than reuse 
the circle, reuse the small compass shape. Tried putting the compass 
shape in a computer logo and the result looked like what OSGeo-Live 
is. Also did one putting the heart in a computer frame as a reference.

--
Jody Garnett

-

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--
Brian M Hamlin
OSGeo California Chapter
blog.light42.com



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--
Cameron Shorter
M +61 419 142 254

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Re: [Live-demo] OSGeo-Live Mission and Future - was BOF

[Vicky Vergara]

Hi all:
Not complaining, but just some thoughts about this:

> with the new OSGeo web site development.. somehow I realized that the
docs from OSGeo-Live should be the same docs in the new OSGeo web site.

By "docs"  you mean the current "overview documentation" or both overview
and quickstart documentation?
I will suppose both for this points:
- I must remind that a lot of projects in "OSGeo Live" are not
OSGeo-projects or  OSGeo-community related.
  - I don't think OSGeo would have overview and quickstart documentation of
projects not OSGeo related
  - what about those not on OSGeo
- What will happen to projects where the documentation and or wiki is
stored actually outside of OSGeo website see:
https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/InfrastructurePreferencesStatusQuo
- The task would probably need a script that capture information from the
OSGeo official site to put on the OSGeo Live documentation.
- Who will be in charge of making sure that the documentation in OSGeo
matches/has what OSGeo Live needs on. (aka, all the complains we do about
"not following the standards for the overview page or the quick start page)
- we also do translations, what about those?, how would be the official
site for translating, do the script also captures translated pages from
OSGeo site? what if they dont have them yet?.
- If sphinx(or any other documentation generator) is still used for OSGeo
Live documentation, a script (after capturing) might be needed to convert
the OSGeo Page to sphinx(or any other documentation generator) structure?
  - who will make such a script?
  - who will verify the conversion is correct?
  - who will contact projects to change the OSGeo Page that has problems,
so that they fix it?
- The docs on OSGeo live have version related information.
  - After releasing OSGeo disk, the projects might change make new
releases, so are updates based on changes on the OSGeo pages going to be
reflected automatically to generate a new micro release of the disk because
the project documentation changed on the OSGeo website?


regards
Vicky






On Sun, Aug 6, 2017 at 3:45 PM, Cameron Shorter 
wrote:

> Brian,
>
> You have eloquently presented the current state of OSGeo-Live and the
> foundations for future opportunities and growth.
>
> I particularly agree with your caution about creating multiple
> documentation baselines for OSGeo, (it creates a maintenance challenge) and
> the recommendation of retasking the same material in multiple contexts.
>
> Cheers, Cameron
>
>
>
> On 5/8/17 9:34 am, Brian M Hamlin wrote:
>
>> HI Jody, All -
>>
>>   In the past with OSGeo-Live, I have described the Mission Statement in
>> three parts:
>>
>> Reference Install ;  Showcase for Projects  ;  well-chosen (curated)
>> examples
>>
>>   WIth the release of Live 11 and the massive advance in Debian
>> packaging, I believe the future is not one project. This can be seen as
>> "evolution" .. it is natural for a large and mature project to split ..
>>   Website ;  Server Edition  ;  Desktop Linux
>> -
>>with the new OSGeo web site development.. somehow I realized that the
>> docs from OSGeo-Live should be the same docs in the new OSGeo web site.
>> Rebuilding docs is too much work, and too many parts, to duplicate. Instead,
>> build once and deploy in several contexts. -
>>   credit to Angelos Tzotsos and Debian Developer Sebastian Couwenburg
>> The "server edition" of OSGeo-Live is simply UbuntuGIS PPA,
>> with DebianGIS aka pkg-grass as the "upstream" in many cases.. -
>>   that leaves "desktop Linux" Ubuntu.. what remains of the OSGeo-Live.
>> Critically speaking, it has been twenty years (or more) that I have been
>> active,
>> of promises of "desktop Linux" .. in fact, Windows and phones have spread,
>> with some percentage of Mac OSX from Apple in various demographic groups.
>> Web browsing is constant, phone use is constant and climbing, and .. no
>> desktop
>> revolution with Linux of any kind.  OSGeo-Live right now, is basically
>> desktop Linux. -
>>  Another note on Ubuntu.. as people likely know, the number one cloud VM
>> instance
>> is Ubuntu.. and last I heard, Google uses an Ubuntu fork for much within
>> its cloud walls. The "server edition" of OSGeo-Live is.. Ubuntu packaging..
>> this bodes well.. -
>>
>> I am interested in participating in a BOF, but from my point of view, I
>> think we should
>> consider the OSGeo-Live 11 as somewhat an "end of an era" .. and move
>> forward
>> with eyes open to new, productive avenues for valuable efforts.
>>   best regards from Berkeley, California
>>-Brian M Hamlin
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 4 Aug 2017 15:41:07 -0700, Jody Garnett 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Is anyone up for an OSGeo Live BOF:
>> Also I finally uploaded photos with the OSGeo-Live team from foss4ge:
>> (example|example|group). Could I ask the team to select one of these for
>> a group photo for the new website?
>>
>> Had a productive meeting with the graphics designer about 

Re: [Live-demo] OSGeo-Live Mission and Future - was BOF

[Jody Garnett]

Vicky

Brian and Cameron are correct to point out duplication. Indeed cameron
pointed out duplication when information sheets were being produced (sorry
cameron I under estimated the enthusiastic response, we had planned to only
print two information sheets!).

Jeffrey Johnson (and Cameron?) have talked about writing down this kind of
information once and then generate the page for the osgeo website and for
osgeo live. That is a long term goal (as the osgeo live release schedule
and the website release schedule did not leave much room for close
collaboration in these summer months).

The OSGeo website plans to list much more than just osgeo projects - since
the goal is to "empower everyone with open source geospatial" :) Just like
osgeo live, the foundation (and thus the website) has a mandate to promote.

You can see one example here:
http://osgeo.getinteractive.nl/projects/geo-node/

There is also a choose-a-project page taking shape that helps guide
visitors to open source software that meets there needs (irregardless of
where it was created from). This is important in areas like cloud
processing where OSGeo projects are not playing yet.



--
Jody Garnett

On 6 August 2017 at 15:44, Vicky Vergara  wrote:

> Hi all:
> Not complaining, but just some thoughts about this:
>
> > with the new OSGeo web site development.. somehow I realized that the
> docs from OSGeo-Live should be the same docs in the new OSGeo web site.
>
> By "docs"  you mean the current "overview documentation" or both overview
> and quickstart documentation?
> I will suppose both for this points:
> - I must remind that a lot of projects in "OSGeo Live" are not
> OSGeo-projects or  OSGeo-community related.
>   - I don't think OSGeo would have overview and quickstart documentation
> of projects not OSGeo related
>   - what about those not on OSGeo
> - What will happen to projects where the documentation and or wiki is
> stored actually outside of OSGeo website see:
> https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/InfrastructurePreferencesStatusQuo
> - The task would probably need a script that capture information from the
> OSGeo official site to put on the OSGeo Live documentation.
> - Who will be in charge of making sure that the documentation in OSGeo
> matches/has what OSGeo Live needs on. (aka, all the complains we do about
> "not following the standards for the overview page or the quick start page)
> - we also do translations, what about those?, how would be the official
> site for translating, do the script also captures translated pages from
> OSGeo site? what if they dont have them yet?.
> - If sphinx(or any other documentation generator) is still used for OSGeo
> Live documentation, a script (after capturing) might be needed to convert
> the OSGeo Page to sphinx(or any other documentation generator) structure?
>   - who will make such a script?
>   - who will verify the conversion is correct?
>   - who will contact projects to change the OSGeo Page that has problems,
> so that they fix it?
> - The docs on OSGeo live have version related information.
>   - After releasing OSGeo disk, the projects might change make new
> releases, so are updates based on changes on the OSGeo pages going to be
> reflected automatically to generate a new micro release of the disk because
> the project documentation changed on the OSGeo website?
>
>
> regards
> Vicky
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Aug 6, 2017 at 3:45 PM, Cameron Shorter  > wrote:
>
>> Brian,
>>
>> You have eloquently presented the current state of OSGeo-Live and the
>> foundations for future opportunities and growth.
>>
>> I particularly agree with your caution about creating multiple
>> documentation baselines for OSGeo, (it creates a maintenance challenge) and
>> the recommendation of retasking the same material in multiple contexts.
>>
>> Cheers, Cameron
>>
>>
>>
>> On 5/8/17 9:34 am, Brian M Hamlin wrote:
>>
>>> HI Jody, All -
>>>
>>>   In the past with OSGeo-Live, I have described the Mission Statement in
>>> three parts:
>>>
>>> Reference Install ;  Showcase for Projects  ;  well-chosen (curated)
>>> examples
>>>
>>>   WIth the release of Live 11 and the massive advance in Debian
>>> packaging, I believe the future is not one project. This can be seen as
>>> "evolution" .. it is natural for a large and mature project to split ..
>>>   Website ;  Server Edition  ;  Desktop Linux
>>> -
>>>with the new OSGeo web site development.. somehow I realized that the
>>> docs from OSGeo-Live should be the same docs in the new OSGeo web site.
>>> Rebuilding docs is too much work, and too many parts, to duplicate. Instead,
>>> build once and deploy in several contexts. -
>>>   credit to Angelos Tzotsos and Debian Developer Sebastian Couwenburg
>>> The "server edition" of OSGeo-Live is simply UbuntuGIS PPA,
>>> with DebianGIS aka pkg-grass as the "upstream" in many cases.. -
>>>   that leaves "desktop Linux" Ubuntu.. what remains of the OSGeo-Live.
>>> Critically 

Re: [Live-demo] OSGeo-Live Mission and Future - was BOF

[Vicky Vergara]

As allways started experimentig ideas...
plain copy of the file:
https://cvvergara.github.io/osgeonode/index.html
It didn't catch the formats, but at least the data is there:
https://cvvergara.github.io/osgeonode/index.html


On Sun, Aug 6, 2017 at 6:48 PM, Jody Garnett  wrote:

> Vicky
>
> Brian and Cameron are correct to point out duplication. Indeed cameron
> pointed out duplication when information sheets were being produced (sorry
> cameron I under estimated the enthusiastic response, we had planned to only
> print two information sheets!).
>
> Jeffrey Johnson (and Cameron?) have talked about writing down this kind of
> information once and then generate the page for the osgeo website and for
> osgeo live. That is a long term goal (as the osgeo live release schedule
> and the website release schedule did not leave much room for close
> collaboration in these summer months).
>
> The OSGeo website plans to list much more than just osgeo projects - since
> the goal is to "empower everyone with open source geospatial" :) Just like
> osgeo live, the foundation (and thus the website) has a mandate to promote.
>
> You can see one example here: http://osgeo.getinteractive.nl/projects/
> geo-node/
>
> There is also a choose-a-project page taking shape that helps guide
> visitors to open source software that meets there needs (irregardless of
> where it was created from). This is important in areas like cloud
> processing where OSGeo projects are not playing yet.
>
>
>
> --
> Jody Garnett
>
> On 6 August 2017 at 15:44, Vicky Vergara  wrote:
>
>> Hi all:
>> Not complaining, but just some thoughts about this:
>>
>> > with the new OSGeo web site development.. somehow I realized that the
>> docs from OSGeo-Live should be the same docs in the new OSGeo web site.
>>
>> By "docs"  you mean the current "overview documentation" or both overview
>> and quickstart documentation?
>> I will suppose both for this points:
>> - I must remind that a lot of projects in "OSGeo Live" are not
>> OSGeo-projects or  OSGeo-community related.
>>   - I don't think OSGeo would have overview and quickstart documentation
>> of projects not OSGeo related
>>   - what about those not on OSGeo
>> - What will happen to projects where the documentation and or wiki is
>> stored actually outside of OSGeo website see:
>> https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/InfrastructurePreferencesStatusQuo
>> - The task would probably need a script that capture information from the
>> OSGeo official site to put on the OSGeo Live documentation.
>> - Who will be in charge of making sure that the documentation in OSGeo
>> matches/has what OSGeo Live needs on. (aka, all the complains we do about
>> "not following the standards for the overview page or the quick start page)
>> - we also do translations, what about those?, how would be the official
>> site for translating, do the script also captures translated pages from
>> OSGeo site? what if they dont have them yet?.
>> - If sphinx(or any other documentation generator) is still used for OSGeo
>> Live documentation, a script (after capturing) might be needed to convert
>> the OSGeo Page to sphinx(or any other documentation generator) structure?
>>   - who will make such a script?
>>   - who will verify the conversion is correct?
>>   - who will contact projects to change the OSGeo Page that has problems,
>> so that they fix it?
>> - The docs on OSGeo live have version related information.
>>   - After releasing OSGeo disk, the projects might change make new
>> releases, so are updates based on changes on the OSGeo pages going to be
>> reflected automatically to generate a new micro release of the disk because
>> the project documentation changed on the OSGeo website?
>>
>>
>> regards
>> Vicky
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 6, 2017 at 3:45 PM, Cameron Shorter <
>> cameron.shor...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Brian,
>>>
>>> You have eloquently presented the current state of OSGeo-Live and the
>>> foundations for future opportunities and growth.
>>>
>>> I particularly agree with your caution about creating multiple
>>> documentation baselines for OSGeo, (it creates a maintenance challenge) and
>>> the recommendation of retasking the same material in multiple contexts.
>>>
>>> Cheers, Cameron
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5/8/17 9:34 am, Brian M Hamlin wrote:
>>>
 HI Jody, All -

   In the past with OSGeo-Live, I have described the Mission Statement
 in three parts:

 Reference Install ;  Showcase for Projects  ;  well-chosen (curated)
 examples

   WIth the release of Live 11 and the massive advance in Debian
 packaging, I believe the future is not one project. This can be seen as
 "evolution" .. it is natural for a large and mature project to split ..
   Website ;  Server Edition  ;  Desktop Linux
 -
with the new OSGeo web site development.. somehow I realized that the
 docs from OSGeo-Live should be the same docs in the new OSGeo