Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Creating An Accessibility Specification for Lubuntu 11.10
Perhaps there is a misunderstanding here. Ubuntu Accessibility does not, in fact, set up any roadmap for any distribution except Ubuntu. Xubuntu, Kubuntu, Mythbuntu, Edubuntu, etc, all set their own roadmaps for the distribution they develope. They do not rely on any other team exept their own to decide what they will do in a cycle. -- Charlie Kravetz Linux Registered User Number 425914 [http://counter.li.org/] Never let anyone steal your DREAM. [http://keepingdreams.com] No, it means each distribution makes its own accessibility roadmap, since we don't know what each distribution developers are capable of during a cycle. Kubuntu, for example, will have accessible installations and screen-reader this cycle. Xubuntu has not decided on its plans yet. Each variant is in fact a separate distribution, even if we all use the same repositories. -- Charlie Kravetz Linux Registered User Number 425914 [http://counter.li.org/] Never let anyone steal your DREAM. [http://keepingdreams.com] -- What I think is going wrong is difference in jargon. When the Lubuntu devs/people asked for a roadmap is what the Accessibility people would see as an priority list. When the Lubuntu people have their priority list, then they can create their own roadmap. As the Lubuntu devs are very motivated to get accepted as being an official derivative, they also want to get to some of the levels Ubuntu has achieved so far at least. Just to proof their worth. That's why they asked for a roadmap and current position of Ubuntu. But I think now that the situation has been cleared, I think a priority list would fill the gap of what the Lubuntu people are looking for. Then they can argue among themselves what would be a realistic roadmap. With metta, Chris Druif ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [Pcmanfm-develop] Directory tree is now available in PCManFM!
Great PCMan, congratulations. I see now that 'items' and 'hidden' are translatable but for some reason Free space: %s (Total: %s) isn't showing translated (neither when built from the master branch nor when built from the tab-rework branch). Also don't forget to make “Places” and “Directory Tree” translatable too ;-) ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Creating An Accessibility Specification for Lubuntu 11.10
On 05/30/2011 12:19 AM, Chris wrote: What I think is going wrong is difference in jargon. When the Lubuntu devs/people asked for a roadmap is what the Accessibility people would see as an priority list. When the Lubuntu people have their priority list, then they can create their own roadmap. That sounds fine to me :) My current background assumption is that Lubuntu is late to the accessibility party, just as it is late to officialness, and that the other (already official) Ubuntu variants are, therefore, already substantially further along this particular path than we currently are in Lubuntu. So that we can better discover what needs to be done within Lubuntu, and in what order, I would like to know, with some reasonable degree of clarity and specificity: (A) What are the expectations of those seeking adding accessibility to Lubuntu, and what is the relative priority of each such expectation? (B) How do these expectations compare to what is already implemented in each of the other Ubuntu variants, and in Debian? (C) How do these expectations compare to what each of the other Ubuntu variants plans to do in the current (Oneiric) development cycle? Links to current information on what Debian and each Ubuntu variant has done, and plans to do, in this regard would therefore be useful. Lower priority, but still very useful, would be to also know: (D) How can we know when we have got there -- how can we verify that Lubuntu (or LXDE, or an application within Lubuntu) has attained a particular desired level or standard of accessibility? (I'm aware of http://www.w3.org/WAI/ for web site accessibility -- what are the application or OS or DE equivalents used in the Debian/Ubuntu community?). At this point, I *really* don't mind what anyone calls this documentation (specifications, blueprints, roadmaps, priority lists, other?). I also do not mind who created it (the Ubuntu accessibility team, or development teams within each Ubuntu variant, or even sabdfl himself!). My immediate concern is to determine whether such current documentation actually exists at all, and if it does, preferably some idea of its current level of acceptance or officialness (because great documentation that everyone else is ignoring may be less helpful than mediocre documentation that everyone else has already agreed to follow and implement!). And, very fundamentally: if this documentation does exist, where can we read it? Everything I have found so far seems either not actually a priority list/roadmap, not really Ubuntu-specific, or old and out of date. So perhaps my Google skills are lacking in this (accessibility) domain, and I need a little more help finding the real thing. If these requests and questions are unreasonable, or expose a total misunderstanding of the situation on my part, so be it, please enlighten me further :) Perhaps the most useful thing I have found so far is http://developer.gnome.org/accessibility-devel-guide/3.0/accessibility-devel-guide.html -- which is GNOME documentation, not Debian or Ubuntu documentation, and Lubuntu does not use GNOME. If, in the end, all of this boils down to as a first major useful step, please just add orca and espeak and their dependencies to the Lubuntu CD... that would be good to know :) Jonathan ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Lubuntu-desktop] Accessibility
Hiyas mate, (If I can still call you that). Seems to have been getting a bit frustrating. I'm sorry I've not been around too much owing to that database recovery, which finally seems to be going ok. I've had a good chat with charles tonight, with their TL down for hospital stuff - that team is also suffering a bit. The 'urgent' as asked for is: (22:46:48) phillw: All we need, and it is really important, is that accessibilty tell us what is urgent for basic accessibillity , what is medium term and what would be really nice to have. (22:46:52) charlie-tca: but as to priorities, how do we set them? Take the list pia created, decide what the team is able to add for Oneiric, label the rest as O + 1. If Lubuntu can use compiz, users can add the magnifier plugin. (22:47:06) charlie-tca: If not, try to find a screen magnifier that works with it. (22:47:16) charlie-tca: okay *(22:47:57) charlie-tca: Urgent: Screen-reader, magnifier, on-screen keyboard, mouse/switch dwelling settings (mousetweaks) for non-keyboard users* (22:48:06) phillw: lubuntu has shown itself to be quite capable of taking, certainly compiz 2D in. but we do not Unity. (22:48:14) charlie-tca: Is all that possible for Oneiric? (22:48:49) phillw: Having now the list - i can at least ask! (22:48:53) charlie-tca: espeak is a text based screen reader, we need a gui based one, too (22:49:30) phillw: the author of espeak did a GUI? (22:49:46) charlie-tca: I know of two, orca and kaccessible. Kaccessible needs qt and kde, orca needs a lot of gnome (22:50:11) phillw: give me a few minutes. (22:50:43) charlie-tca: We also need both high-contrast and low-contrast themes (22:51:51) charlie-tca: Ideally, dasher needs to work, since it is the best on screen writing program we have at the time. (22:51:58) phillw: now, I met this young man again when I joined accessibility, he put a GUI out.. http://forum.phillw.net/viewtopic.php?f=14t=33 (22:52:41) phillw: I was impressed, it still needed a bit opf work, but it did work. (22:52:52) charlie-tca: Will it work with the monitor turned off? (22:53:12) charlie-tca: If we need a sighted person to read the errors, if fails (22:53:59) phillw: next time you see RainCT on line, ask him! (22:54:03) charlie-tca: It has taken me about three years to get a theme for Xubuntu that works for visually impaired users (22:54:57) charlie-tca: This is what makes setting priorities for a team so difficult. We have many needs for handi-capped users, but we can only fix one or two at a time. (22:55:14) phillw: I have also been given a few projects to have a look at by Alan Bell, but relaistically they are a at least 2 cycles away. (22:55:32) charlie-tca: According to Canonical, Accessibility in unity worked great! According to testing it, it fails miserably. We can't use it. (22:56:28) charlie-tca: Two cycles is nothing. If the project fits the distribution, you plan for it, and you add those plans to release notes. I've added a bit of 'wrap' around that part of the chat, charlie has agreed that the entire chat be paste binned. He is a very honourable man, you can see some of his own frustrations come out at times. I am proud to be able to talk frankly and openly with him. Any genuine enquiries from Lubuntu he will endeavour to answer. The full chat is at http://pastebin.com/HhdCeC9v JM, please bear with me, I've had this heartache before, but at least you have now an 'urgent' list and acceptance that it is quite probable you and julien do not have a chance of getting any of them in place for 11.10. I'm going to switch from chatting to people on accessbility mailing list who like to moan to those who have an understanding of 'what is possible given the available resources'. It will take a little while to get this sub-team together, but I know who I want on it. Regards, Phill. -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/phillw ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Creating An Accessibility Specification for Lubuntu 11.10
Hiyas everyone, I am proposing a slightly different path. @accessibility: We're going to consider things. Our commitment to accessibillity is not diminished, just our way of interacting. @lubuntu:Please consider what I have proposed. Regards, Phill. On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 8:53 PM, Jonathan Marsden jmars...@fastmail.fmwrote: On 05/30/2011 12:19 AM, Chris wrote: What I think is going wrong is difference in jargon. When the Lubuntu devs/people asked for a roadmap is what the Accessibility people would see as an priority list. When the Lubuntu people have their priority list, then they can create their own roadmap. That sounds fine to me :) My current background assumption is that Lubuntu is late to the accessibility party, just as it is late to officialness, and that the other (already official) Ubuntu variants are, therefore, already substantially further along this particular path than we currently are in Lubuntu. So that we can better discover what needs to be done within Lubuntu, and in what order, I would like to know, with some reasonable degree of clarity and specificity: (A) What are the expectations of those seeking adding accessibility to Lubuntu, and what is the relative priority of each such expectation? (B) How do these expectations compare to what is already implemented in each of the other Ubuntu variants, and in Debian? (C) How do these expectations compare to what each of the other Ubuntu variants plans to do in the current (Oneiric) development cycle? Links to current information on what Debian and each Ubuntu variant has done, and plans to do, in this regard would therefore be useful. Lower priority, but still very useful, would be to also know: (D) How can we know when we have got there -- how can we verify that Lubuntu (or LXDE, or an application within Lubuntu) has attained a particular desired level or standard of accessibility? (I'm aware of http://www.w3.org/WAI/ for web site accessibility -- what are the application or OS or DE equivalents used in the Debian/Ubuntu community?). At this point, I *really* don't mind what anyone calls this documentation (specifications, blueprints, roadmaps, priority lists, other?). I also do not mind who created it (the Ubuntu accessibility team, or development teams within each Ubuntu variant, or even sabdfl himself!). My immediate concern is to determine whether such current documentation actually exists at all, and if it does, preferably some idea of its current level of acceptance or officialness (because great documentation that everyone else is ignoring may be less helpful than mediocre documentation that everyone else has already agreed to follow and implement!). And, very fundamentally: if this documentation does exist, where can we read it? Everything I have found so far seems either not actually a priority list/roadmap, not really Ubuntu-specific, or old and out of date. So perhaps my Google skills are lacking in this (accessibility) domain, and I need a little more help finding the real thing. If these requests and questions are unreasonable, or expose a total misunderstanding of the situation on my part, so be it, please enlighten me further :) Perhaps the most useful thing I have found so far is http://developer.gnome.org/accessibility-devel-guide/3.0/accessibility-devel-guide.html -- which is GNOME documentation, not Debian or Ubuntu documentation, and Lubuntu does not use GNOME. If, in the end, all of this boils down to as a first major useful step, please just add orca and espeak and their dependencies to the Lubuntu CD... that would be good to know :) Jonathan ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/phillw ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu 11.10 (Alpha1 just to change sources.list?)
What about a nice sound theme manager ? On May 29, 2011 6:40 PM, Julien Lavergne gi...@ubuntu.com wrote: Le Saturday 28 May 2011 à 17:35 -0700, Jonathan Marsden a écrit : So you are saying that is is easier and quicker to download an entire 600+MB ISO, and then install from it (possibly first burning it to a CD-R), rather than typing sudo sed -i -e 's/natty/oneiric/g' /etc/apt/sources.list The only awkward part this time around is trying to spell oneiric correctly, since that adjective is much less commonly used than karmic, lucid, maverick or natty by most English speakers. I know which I think is easier and quicker -- type the command! You forgot the time to actually made the upgrade, which could be long, and with an unknown result. Migrations / upgrades from stable release to Alpha 1 is not tested at all. It's also sometime impossible to upgrade. On my eeePC 701, and its 4Gb, it's impossible du to the available space. Regards, Julien Lavergne ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
