Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Audio players - some thoughts RFC
And no, you're right, this is NOT a democracy. I mean, the audio player has its own discussion (where everybody in this list voted their suggestion). But there's one thing we cannot forget, the technical details about RAM consumption, the space needed in the ISO, the license of the included product in a third party release, the update schedule and availability of packages, etc. Believe when I tell that the coordinator of this project, Julien, is doing the best for keeping Lubuntu as efficient and attractive as possible. And I think we could demonstrate some empathy and trust for him. -- attachment: b3.pngattachment: b2.pngattachment: b1.png___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Audio players - some thoughts RFC
Am Samstag 12 März 2011, um 18:31:14 schrieb 神癒礁湖 (Rafael Laguna): And no, you're right, this is NOT a democracy. I mean, the audio player has its own discussion (where everybody in this list voted their suggestion). But there's one thing we cannot forget, the technical details about RAM consumption, the space needed in the ISO, the license of the included product in a third party release, the update schedule and availability of packages, etc. Believe when I tell that the coordinator of this project, Julien, is doing the best for keeping Lubuntu as efficient and attractive as possible. And I think we could demonstrate some empathy and trust for him. Not only for him, but also respect the decision already done by the community (the audio player was voted if I am not wrong) Also bear in mind, changing the audio player or default applications is nothing that should change every release. Especially as upgrades from older releases tend to keep their versions of audio player. AudioPlayers and Webbrowsers are the two most discussed topics here in the mailinglist when it comes to default applications, but that is normal for a distribution that young. The most important is that those discussions don't interfere the development of the overall distribution and that is something Julien just like we all here in the community have to look at and should take responsibility for. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Audio players - some thoughts RFC
On Sun, 27 Feb 2011 19:23:27 + Yorvyk yorvik.ubu...@googlemail.com wrote: On Sun, 27 Feb 2011 13:19:25 +0100 Julien Lavergne gi...@ubuntu.com wrote: Just a quick note, I'll *NOT* discuss again and again about the music player. The choice was done for 11.04, and I don't attempt to change this choice for futur version. This is really a waste of time. We will be able to discuss this for the 11.10, during the usual schedule. Outside this, don't expect any answer from me, or any changes for the choice. I'll *NOT* discuss again ... I don't attempt :( this is not a democracy -- Jorge Andrés winningl...@gmail.com ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Audio players - some thoughts RFC
@Andres, he is not trying to be a jerk or anything but as with any type of development there is a process. Once a application has been determined for a OS than work begins to ensure full compatibility and bug fixes. If you try and change up apps in the middle of development than you must start this entire process over with. If you would like to see another application for future releases than you can bring it up *prior* to the development of that OS release. 2011/3/12 Jorge Andrés winningl...@gmail.com On Sun, 27 Feb 2011 19:23:27 + Yorvyk yorvik.ubu...@googlemail.com wrote: On Sun, 27 Feb 2011 13:19:25 +0100 Julien Lavergne gi...@ubuntu.com wrote: Just a quick note, I'll *NOT* discuss again and again about the music player. The choice was done for 11.04, and I don't attempt to change this choice for futur version. This is really a waste of time. We will be able to discuss this for the 11.10, during the usual schedule. Outside this, don't expect any answer from me, or any changes for the choice. I'll *NOT* discuss again ... I don't attempt :( this is not a democracy -- Jorge Andrés winningl...@gmail.com ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- God Bless ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Lubuntu-desktop] Audio players - some thoughts RFC
Which audio player to use must be about as controversial as which OS. While I believe they should be 'heard and not seen', others require them to run their computer. Benchmarks alone are not going to find the best solution but can narrow the field down. As Lubuntu is intended as a low resource OS, we need to find players that use as little CPU/RAM as possible while still retaining reasonable functionality. Some of us have, in the past, run various inconclusive tests. Before Oscillating Ocelot, or what ever the release after Natty Narwhal is to be called, we develop a standard benchmark for everybody to use. Basically this would involve everybody using the same music to carry out the measurements and also reporting the hardware used. In the tests myself, and others, have carried out it has become apparent that some players cope better in low memory environments than others. Depending on the source and codecs used some players use far more resources than others. While one may be very frugal with mp3 it's resource use can rocket with ogg, and vice-versa. Some players cope very well with about a dozen albums but struggle when they have to cope with 10,000 tracks. So what we need is a standard set of tracks, in different formats and bit rates, for everybody to test with and a standardised set of tests and measurements so as to give a consistent set of results across different hardware. Thoughts. -- Steve Cook (Yorvyk) http://lubuntu.net ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Audio players - some thoughts RFC
2011/2/27 Yorvyk yorvik.ubu...@googlemail.com Basically this would involve everybody using the same music to carry out the measurements and also reporting the hardware used. Couldn't be more agree with you: a standard test to make the decision would be perfect to take a decision (and for everything should be this way) Yorvyk, let me know if you need a hand since i'm very interested on this. The decision about the files to play will be a funny thing i guess :) Also, i think that a huge load of files (10.000+) it's an excessive task for the machines that Lubuntu is made for... but not something unfeasible :) So, first propositions: - Check App dependencies - Check Kb used by the packages - It must be in the repos - Results should be taken from HTOP - CPU + RAM must be verified before, during and after the test - Tests must be made with the same files: an assortment of extensions bitrates This said, wich will be the version of Audacious in 11.04?? -- jpxsat ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Audio players - some thoughts RFC
Le dimanche 27 février 2011 à 11:00 +, Yorvyk a écrit : Which audio player to use must be about as controversial as which OS. While I believe they should be 'heard and not seen', others require them to run their computer. Benchmarks alone are not going to find the best solution but can narrow the field down. As Lubuntu is intended as a low resource OS, we need to find players that use as little CPU/RAM as possible while still retaining reasonable functionality. Some of us have, in the past, run various inconclusive tests. Before Oscillating Ocelot, or what ever the release after Natty Narwhal is to be called, we develop a standard benchmark for everybody to use. Basically this would involve everybody using the same music to carry out the measurements and also reporting the hardware used. In the tests myself, and others, have carried out it has become apparent that some players cope better in low memory environments than others. Depending on the source and codecs used some players use far more resources than others. While one may be very frugal with mp3 it's resource use can rocket with ogg, and vice-versa. Some players cope very well with about a dozen albums but struggle when they have to cope with 10,000 tracks. So what we need is a standard set of tracks, in different formats and bit rates, for everybody to test with and a standardised set of tests and measurements so as to give a consistent set of results across different hardware. Just a quick note, I'll *NOT* discuss again and again about the music player. The choice was done for 11.04, and I don't attempt to change this choice for futur version. This is really a waste of time. We will be able to discuss this for the 11.10, during the usual schedule. Outside this, don't expect any answer from me, or any changes for the choice. Regards, Julien Lavergne ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Lubuntu-desktop] Audio players
Hi! I have just tested some audio players in my Lubuntu Maverick and I want to share my experience with you. First of all, my testing machine was Asus EEE PC 1015 pn. It has Atom N550 inside and 2 GB of memory. Firstly, I have installed deadbeef. I don't know whether it is a bug or not but after playing from one to three songs it stops playing at all. So this player was removed. Then I have read about audacious in this mail's list. I have installed it and it looked very nice, but used ~28% of my CPU. This was too big for me, so this player was also removed. Then I have found decibel audio player. This one used ~18% of my CPU and had very simple, but nice interface. I have also tried pogo audio player. It used ~16% of my CPU. So, now about two winners in this small compettion in my opinion. First of them is pragha. It is very fast, has simple but nice interface, is coded in C++ and uses ~14% of my CPU. And the second is alsaplayer. It has nice interface, equalizer and some available plugins that can imitate winamp style. It uses ~12% of my CPU. So I think that this is the best one for me. P.S. All of these players use nearly the same amount of memory. P.P.S. All digits were taken from htop utility. Best regards, Mike Nokel ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Audio players
Mike: 2011/2/26 Jean-Pierre Vidal Piesset jpx...@gmail.com 2011/2/26 Mike Nokel mno...@gmail.com Hi! I have just tested some audio players in my Lubuntu Maverick and I want to share my experience with you. First of all, my testing machine was Asus EEE PC 1015 pn. It has Atom N550 inside and 2 GB of memory. Firstly, I have installed deadbeef. I don't know whether it is a bug or not but after playing from one to three songs it stops playing at all. So this player was removed. Then I have read about audacious in this mail's list. I have installed it and it looked very nice, but used ~28% of my CPU. This was too big for me, so this player was also removed. Then I have found decibel audio player. This one used ~18% of my CPU and had very simple, but nice interface. I have also tried pogo audio player. It used ~16% of my CPU. So, now about two winners in this small compettion in my opinion. First of them is pragha. It is very fast, has simple but nice interface, is coded in C++ and uses ~14% of my CPU. And the second is alsaplayer. It has nice interface, equalizer and some available plugins that can imitate winamp style. It uses ~12% of my CPU. So I think that this is the best one for me. P.S. All of these players use nearly the same amount of memory. P.P.S. All digits were taken from htop utility. Best regards, Mike Nokel Mike: I tried severall players for Lubuntu, and for me audacious win because: - CPU doesn't get over 18% on an P3 at 768(1000) mhz - It was the app consumming less RAM among all (this is a hard point to me because at the time i did those tests i use to have 256ram) - I can throw to it almost anything, it's codecs are very large The amount of CPU you're experiencing it's maybe due that you tried it freshly installed or changed from GTK skin to winamp skin or viceversa... in those cases the cpu consuming gets crazy (don't know why). Just try it after a reboot without touching anything to the conf :) In an old machine i have, it is the only player that i could get to work without messing with the sound output. Julien also commented something about audacious development that was a good thing to Lubuntu... Anyway, i will test those players you're pointing, maybe effectively one of them is better than audacious... i'm having some desapointments with the latest versions of it (but i hope they will fix it) -- Jpxsat Decibel has gstreamer dependecies... something that in Lubuntu i don't think we are very friend of. Pogo and Pragha are not in the repositories (at least for 10.04) so it generates a problem for the Lubuntu team as they have to take in charge another package... (and so, i didn't even tried them) Alsa-Player is in the repos, no huge dependencies and it really impressed me about the cpu consumption, but taking a quick look at it, resulted that it's a very incomplete software... starting with the fact that it has no autoplay :( Audacious if a little more heavy for the CPU but it's a very complete piece of software ;) -- jpxsat ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Audio players
On 27 February 2011 13:10, Jean-Pierre Vidal Piesset jpx...@gmail.com wrote: Mike: 2011/2/26 Jean-Pierre Vidal Piesset jpx...@gmail.com 2011/2/26 Mike Nokel mno...@gmail.com Hi! I have just tested some audio players in my Lubuntu Maverick and I want to share my experience with you. First of all, my testing machine was Asus EEE PC 1015 pn. It has Atom N550 inside and 2 GB of memory. Firstly, I have installed deadbeef. I don't know whether it is a bug or not but after playing from one to three songs it stops playing at all. So this player was removed. Then I have read about audacious in this mail's list. I have installed it and it looked very nice, but used ~28% of my CPU. This was too big for me, so this player was also removed. Then I have found decibel audio player. This one used ~18% of my CPU and had very simple, but nice interface. I have also tried pogo audio player. It used ~16% of my CPU. So, now about two winners in this small compettion in my opinion. First of them is pragha. It is very fast, has simple but nice interface, is coded in C++ and uses ~14% of my CPU. And the second is alsaplayer. It has nice interface, equalizer and some available plugins that can imitate winamp style. It uses ~12% of my CPU. So I think that this is the best one for me. P.S. All of these players use nearly the same amount of memory. P.P.S. All digits were taken from htop utility. Best regards, Mike Nokel Mike: I tried severall players for Lubuntu, and for me audacious win because: - CPU doesn't get over 18% on an P3 at 768(1000) mhz - It was the app consumming less RAM among all (this is a hard point to me because at the time i did those tests i use to have 256ram) - I can throw to it almost anything, it's codecs are very large The amount of CPU you're experiencing it's maybe due that you tried it freshly installed or changed from GTK skin to winamp skin or viceversa... in those cases the cpu consuming gets crazy (don't know why). Just try it after a reboot without touching anything to the conf :) In an old machine i have, it is the only player that i could get to work without messing with the sound output. Julien also commented something about audacious development that was a good thing to Lubuntu... Anyway, i will test those players you're pointing, maybe effectively one of them is better than audacious... i'm having some desapointments with the latest versions of it (but i hope they will fix it) -- Jpxsat Decibel has gstreamer dependecies... something that in Lubuntu i don't think we are very friend of. Pogo and Pragha are not in the repositories (at least for 10.04) so it generates a problem for the Lubuntu team as they have to take in charge another package... (and so, i didn't even tried them) Alsa-Player is in the repos, no huge dependencies and it really impressed me about the cpu consumption, but taking a quick look at it, resulted that it's a very incomplete software... starting with the fact that it has no autoplay :( Audacious if a little more heavy for the CPU but it's a very complete piece of software ;) -- jpxsat ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp Just a quick question. I have been using exaile for years now on gnome and was wondering if it would be suitable? It has some gstreamer dependencies though so if this is a deal breaker I guess not. The only thing is I have been using it as a full features program on a quad core box and it idles along under 1% cpu usage but I don't have the ability to test it on older hardware so thought I'd just mention and see if anyone has the ability to test this or not. Regards, Jared Norris JP(Qual) BBehSc(Psych) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JaredNorris ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Audio players
2011/2/27 Jared Norris jrnor...@gmail.com On 27 February 2011 13:10, Jean-Pierre Vidal Piesset jpx...@gmail.com wrote: Mike: 2011/2/26 Jean-Pierre Vidal Piesset jpx...@gmail.com 2011/2/26 Mike Nokel mno...@gmail.com Hi! I have just tested some audio players in my Lubuntu Maverick and I want to share my experience with you. First of all, my testing machine was Asus EEE PC 1015 pn. It has Atom N550 inside and 2 GB of memory. Firstly, I have installed deadbeef. I don't know whether it is a bug or not but after playing from one to three songs it stops playing at all. So this player was removed. Then I have read about audacious in this mail's list. I have installed it and it looked very nice, but used ~28% of my CPU. This was too big for me, so this player was also removed. Then I have found decibel audio player. This one used ~18% of my CPU and had very simple, but nice interface. I have also tried pogo audio player. It used ~16% of my CPU. So, now about two winners in this small compettion in my opinion. First of them is pragha. It is very fast, has simple but nice interface, is coded in C++ and uses ~14% of my CPU. And the second is alsaplayer. It has nice interface, equalizer and some available plugins that can imitate winamp style. It uses ~12% of my CPU. So I think that this is the best one for me. P.S. All of these players use nearly the same amount of memory. P.P.S. All digits were taken from htop utility. Best regards, Mike Nokel Mike: I tried severall players for Lubuntu, and for me audacious win because: - CPU doesn't get over 18% on an P3 at 768(1000) mhz - It was the app consumming less RAM among all (this is a hard point to me because at the time i did those tests i use to have 256ram) - I can throw to it almost anything, it's codecs are very large The amount of CPU you're experiencing it's maybe due that you tried it freshly installed or changed from GTK skin to winamp skin or viceversa... in those cases the cpu consuming gets crazy (don't know why). Just try it after a reboot without touching anything to the conf :) In an old machine i have, it is the only player that i could get to work without messing with the sound output. Julien also commented something about audacious development that was a good thing to Lubuntu... Anyway, i will test those players you're pointing, maybe effectively one of them is better than audacious... i'm having some desapointments with the latest versions of it (but i hope they will fix it) -- Jpxsat Decibel has gstreamer dependecies... something that in Lubuntu i don't think we are very friend of. Pogo and Pragha are not in the repositories (at least for 10.04) so it generates a problem for the Lubuntu team as they have to take in charge another package... (and so, i didn't even tried them) Alsa-Player is in the repos, no huge dependencies and it really impressed me about the cpu consumption, but taking a quick look at it, resulted that it's a very incomplete software... starting with the fact that it has no autoplay :( Audacious if a little more heavy for the CPU but it's a very complete piece of software ;) -- jpxsat ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp Just a quick question. I have been using exaile for years now on gnome and was wondering if it would be suitable? It has some gstreamer dependencies though so if this is a deal breaker I guess not. The only thing is I have been using it as a full features program on a quad core box and it idles along under 1% cpu usage but I don't have the ability to test it on older hardware so thought I'd just mention and see if anyone has the ability to test this or not. Regards, Jared Norris JP(Qual) BBehSc(Psych) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JaredNorris Just tested Exaile, the CPU runs fine (17~25%), but it's a little more than Audacious (13~17%). But i can see crearly why is not an option for Lubuntu: it consumes 40mb Ram vs Audacious that consumes 17~18mb Ram Besides, for simplicity packages audacious are just 2... for exaile there are plenty of it (wich i don't know if it's a bad thing or not, but an app with just 2 packages seems simplier to me ;) -- jpxsat ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Audio players
On 27 February 2011 14:44, Jean-Pierre Vidal Piesset jpx...@gmail.com wrote: 2011/2/27 Jared Norris jrnor...@gmail.com On 27 February 2011 13:10, Jean-Pierre Vidal Piesset jpx...@gmail.com wrote: Mike: 2011/2/26 Jean-Pierre Vidal Piesset jpx...@gmail.com 2011/2/26 Mike Nokel mno...@gmail.com Hi! I have just tested some audio players in my Lubuntu Maverick and I want to share my experience with you. First of all, my testing machine was Asus EEE PC 1015 pn. It has Atom N550 inside and 2 GB of memory. Firstly, I have installed deadbeef. I don't know whether it is a bug or not but after playing from one to three songs it stops playing at all. So this player was removed. Then I have read about audacious in this mail's list. I have installed it and it looked very nice, but used ~28% of my CPU. This was too big for me, so this player was also removed. Then I have found decibel audio player. This one used ~18% of my CPU and had very simple, but nice interface. I have also tried pogo audio player. It used ~16% of my CPU. So, now about two winners in this small compettion in my opinion. First of them is pragha. It is very fast, has simple but nice interface, is coded in C++ and uses ~14% of my CPU. And the second is alsaplayer. It has nice interface, equalizer and some available plugins that can imitate winamp style. It uses ~12% of my CPU. So I think that this is the best one for me. P.S. All of these players use nearly the same amount of memory. P.P.S. All digits were taken from htop utility. Best regards, Mike Nokel Mike: I tried severall players for Lubuntu, and for me audacious win because: - CPU doesn't get over 18% on an P3 at 768(1000) mhz - It was the app consumming less RAM among all (this is a hard point to me because at the time i did those tests i use to have 256ram) - I can throw to it almost anything, it's codecs are very large The amount of CPU you're experiencing it's maybe due that you tried it freshly installed or changed from GTK skin to winamp skin or viceversa... in those cases the cpu consuming gets crazy (don't know why). Just try it after a reboot without touching anything to the conf :) In an old machine i have, it is the only player that i could get to work without messing with the sound output. Julien also commented something about audacious development that was a good thing to Lubuntu... Anyway, i will test those players you're pointing, maybe effectively one of them is better than audacious... i'm having some desapointments with the latest versions of it (but i hope they will fix it) -- Jpxsat Decibel has gstreamer dependecies... something that in Lubuntu i don't think we are very friend of. Pogo and Pragha are not in the repositories (at least for 10.04) so it generates a problem for the Lubuntu team as they have to take in charge another package... (and so, i didn't even tried them) Alsa-Player is in the repos, no huge dependencies and it really impressed me about the cpu consumption, but taking a quick look at it, resulted that it's a very incomplete software... starting with the fact that it has no autoplay :( Audacious if a little more heavy for the CPU but it's a very complete piece of software ;) -- jpxsat ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp Just a quick question. I have been using exaile for years now on gnome and was wondering if it would be suitable? It has some gstreamer dependencies though so if this is a deal breaker I guess not. The only thing is I have been using it as a full features program on a quad core box and it idles along under 1% cpu usage but I don't have the ability to test it on older hardware so thought I'd just mention and see if anyone has the ability to test this or not. Regards, Jared Norris JP(Qual) BBehSc(Psych) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JaredNorris Just tested Exaile, the CPU runs fine (17~25%), but it's a little more than Audacious (13~17%). But i can see crearly why is not an option for Lubuntu: it consumes 40mb Ram vs Audacious that consumes 17~18mb Ram Besides, for simplicity packages audacious are just 2... for exaile there are plenty of it (wich i don't know if it's a bad thing or not, but an app with just 2 packages seems simplier to me ;) -- jpxsat ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp Thanks for testing that, sorry it's not a real option but I've just found it reasonably good for large play lists so
