Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
Bonjour Jean-Pierre, I don't know if this is correct, but I'm a little concerned for if the machines will support the test? We're talking about Pentium 3 4 and 256 to 512 ram. It's like Ali said, it's just a script which does some automated actions, like see what the CPU usage and MEM consumption. The idea for now is just shutting down all current processes of chromium-browser/firefox (or just checking if it's already running or completely shutting down) and starting a default set of tabs. That way the results should be comparable and doable for every machine. With metta, Chris P.S.: I still need to look into the performance test-suite of Tom's Hardware what that does exactly. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
On 11/09/2011 01:55 AM, Chris wrote: P.S.: I still need to look into the performance test-suite of Tom's Hardware what that does exactly Not sure about Tom's but I couldn't find any really good solutions for benchmarking (I was sniffing around OpenBenchmarking) browsers outside of silly stuff like Java and such. I certainly couldn't find anything that could reliably, repeatably measure startup speed. I think that's going to be our most contentious issue with this project. wxl/walter ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
Am 09.11.2011 10:55, schrieb Chris: Bonjour Jean-Pierre, I don't know if this is correct, but I'm a little concerned for if the machines will support the test? We're talking about Pentium 3 4 and 256 to 512 ram. It's like Ali said, it's just a script which does some automated actions, like see what the CPU usage and MEM consumption. The idea for now is just shutting down all current processes of chromium-browser/firefox (or just checking if it's already running or completely shutting down) and starting a default set of tabs. That way the results should be comparable and doable for every machine. With metta, Chris Its somehow funny to see everyone trying to look into the memory consumption of firefox vs. chromium. But I just want keep in mind that those aren't the only criteria for firefox vs. chromium. Don't forget to compare them feature wise. In my view Chromium offers still better features than firefox. Just look at the HTML5 capabilities it just beats firefox here with in my view important things just like HTML5 videoplayback (H264 is supported) or the fact that every browser tab in chromium is running as a different process in a sandbox which makes a crash of one tab not concerning for other tabs. Also the startup time of chromium is still far better than the one of firefox. Chromium also offers some little nice features like a incognito mode that can be used alongside with the normal browsing mode (which firefox does not have, as it closes the 'normal' browser and opens with a incognito profile) The memory consumption is nearly the same. Chromium seems to have a lower memory consumption when it comes to a few open tabs. If you have more than 5 tabs open firefox might be lower on memory consumption but this is only my impression so far(I did not do any tests on it). If you want to dig deep into the materia I guess reading out /proc processes is the right way to go, or you could use the kde systemmonitor (sysguard) which offers the most accurate memory consumption details of all the systemmonitors so far (even giving you a list of /proc processes it analyzed) All in all I am in flavor of Chromium as its still faster and offers the better features. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
On 9 November 2011 06:03, Leszek Lesner leszek.les...@web.de wrote: In my view Chromium offers still better features than firefox. Just look at the HTML5 capabilities it just beats firefox here with in my view important things just like HTML5 videoplayback (H264 is supported) Google is dropping H264 support: http://blog.chromium.org/2011/01/html-video-codec-support-in-chrome.html or the fact that every browser tab in chromium is running as a different process in a sandbox which makes a crash of one tab not concerning for other tabs. Firefox might do that in the future also, but it costs memory to sandbox each browser tab. And I believe Chromium cheats: when available memory gets too low, tabs begin sharing the same process so it's a bit harder to know what's really going on. All in all I am in flavor of Chromium as its still faster and offers the better features. That's a bit subjective as Firefox also offers unique features: It's possible to run a few hundred tabs in Firefox; the design of Chromium's tabbar makes that much more painful in Chromium. Firefox has a much more powerful addon framework (although Chromium may improve this next year). The user has more control over his data with Firefox Sync than with Google's version. While I'm not a Google-hater, I think it's very important for the free web that Mozilla continues to exist. Since Mozilla is a bit more open than Chromium and multiple steps more open than Android, I think open source fans should consider supporting Firefox if the features are nearly equal, which in my opinion they are. This is why I hope Firefox continues to remain the Ubuntu default browser. Since Lubuntu has different constraints in choosing default apps, I'll let Julien and the Lubuntu devs make their own evaluation. Both browsers are fully supported in Ubuntu (Canonical is looking to hire someone who can help maintain Chromium). Jeremy ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
Let's not start a war here... I don't want to be rude, but please keep such personal opinions out of this discussion. I think we can all agree that both Firefox and Chromium are rich in features. We are simply trying to find out which browser, out of Firefox and Chromium, use the least resources. We want to chose the lightest of the two to be our out-of-the-box web browser, whatever users prefer to use after that is simply an apt-get away. Let's not think in terms of This is what I would prefer but rather This is what a user on a low spec machine would prefer. On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 3:21 PM, Jeremy Bicha jbi...@ubuntu.com wrote: On 9 November 2011 06:03, Leszek Lesner leszek.les...@web.de wrote: In my view Chromium offers still better features than firefox. Just look at the HTML5 capabilities it just beats firefox here with in my view important things just like HTML5 videoplayback (H264 is supported) Google is dropping H264 support: http://blog.chromium.org/2011/01/html-video-codec-support-in-chrome.html or the fact that every browser tab in chromium is running as a different process in a sandbox which makes a crash of one tab not concerning for other tabs. Firefox might do that in the future also, but it costs memory to sandbox each browser tab. And I believe Chromium cheats: when available memory gets too low, tabs begin sharing the same process so it's a bit harder to know what's really going on. All in all I am in flavor of Chromium as its still faster and offers the better features. That's a bit subjective as Firefox also offers unique features: It's possible to run a few hundred tabs in Firefox; the design of Chromium's tabbar makes that much more painful in Chromium. Firefox has a much more powerful addon framework (although Chromium may improve this next year). The user has more control over his data with Firefox Sync than with Google's version. While I'm not a Google-hater, I think it's very important for the free web that Mozilla continues to exist. Since Mozilla is a bit more open than Chromium and multiple steps more open than Android, I think open source fans should consider supporting Firefox if the features are nearly equal, which in my opinion they are. This is why I hope Firefox continues to remain the Ubuntu default browser. Since Lubuntu has different constraints in choosing default apps, I'll let Julien and the Lubuntu devs make their own evaluation. Both browsers are fully supported in Ubuntu (Canonical is looking to hire someone who can help maintain Chromium). Jeremy ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
Should we consider Epiphany too or it is not stable enough yet? Gabriel Salles 2011/11/9 A. Andjelkovic andjelko...@gmail.com Let's not start a war here... I don't want to be rude, but please keep such personal opinions out of this discussion. I think we can all agree that both Firefox and Chromium are rich in features. We are simply trying to find out which browser, out of Firefox and Chromium, use the least resources. We want to chose the lightest of the two to be our out-of-the-box web browser, whatever users prefer to use after that is simply an apt-get away. Let's not think in terms of This is what I would prefer but rather This is what a user on a low spec machine would prefer. On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 3:21 PM, Jeremy Bicha jbi...@ubuntu.com wrote: On 9 November 2011 06:03, Leszek Lesner leszek.les...@web.de wrote: In my view Chromium offers still better features than firefox. Just look at the HTML5 capabilities it just beats firefox here with in my view important things just like HTML5 videoplayback (H264 is supported) Google is dropping H264 support: http://blog.chromium.org/2011/01/html-video-codec-support-in-chrome.html or the fact that every browser tab in chromium is running as a different process in a sandbox which makes a crash of one tab not concerning for other tabs. Firefox might do that in the future also, but it costs memory to sandbox each browser tab. And I believe Chromium cheats: when available memory gets too low, tabs begin sharing the same process so it's a bit harder to know what's really going on. All in all I am in flavor of Chromium as its still faster and offers the better features. That's a bit subjective as Firefox also offers unique features: It's possible to run a few hundred tabs in Firefox; the design of Chromium's tabbar makes that much more painful in Chromium. Firefox has a much more powerful addon framework (although Chromium may improve this next year). The user has more control over his data with Firefox Sync than with Google's version. While I'm not a Google-hater, I think it's very important for the free web that Mozilla continues to exist. Since Mozilla is a bit more open than Chromium and multiple steps more open than Android, I think open source fans should consider supporting Firefox if the features are nearly equal, which in my opinion they are. This is why I hope Firefox continues to remain the Ubuntu default browser. Since Lubuntu has different constraints in choosing default apps, I'll let Julien and the Lubuntu devs make their own evaluation. Both browsers are fully supported in Ubuntu (Canonical is looking to hire someone who can help maintain Chromium). Jeremy ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
This all sounds like personal preference and subjective arguments to me. After all, users can install whatever browser they desire. Personally, I wish Lubuntu would boot as fast as it used to. On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 8:55 AM, A. Andjelkovic andjelko...@gmail.comwrote: Let's not start a war here... I don't want to be rude, but please keep such personal opinions out of this discussion. I think we can all agree that both Firefox and Chromium are rich in features. We are simply trying to find out which browser, out of Firefox and Chromium, use the least resources. We want to chose the lightest of the two to be our out-of-the-box web browser, whatever users prefer to use after that is simply an apt-get away. Let's not think in terms of This is what I would prefer but rather This is what a user on a low spec machine would prefer. On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 3:21 PM, Jeremy Bicha jbi...@ubuntu.com wrote: On 9 November 2011 06:03, Leszek Lesner leszek.les...@web.de wrote: In my view Chromium offers still better features than firefox. Just look at the HTML5 capabilities it just beats firefox here with in my view important things just like HTML5 videoplayback (H264 is supported) Google is dropping H264 support: http://blog.chromium.org/2011/01/html-video-codec-support-in-chrome.html or the fact that every browser tab in chromium is running as a different process in a sandbox which makes a crash of one tab not concerning for other tabs. Firefox might do that in the future also, but it costs memory to sandbox each browser tab. And I believe Chromium cheats: when available memory gets too low, tabs begin sharing the same process so it's a bit harder to know what's really going on. All in all I am in flavor of Chromium as its still faster and offers the better features. That's a bit subjective as Firefox also offers unique features: It's possible to run a few hundred tabs in Firefox; the design of Chromium's tabbar makes that much more painful in Chromium. Firefox has a much more powerful addon framework (although Chromium may improve this next year). The user has more control over his data with Firefox Sync than with Google's version. While I'm not a Google-hater, I think it's very important for the free web that Mozilla continues to exist. Since Mozilla is a bit more open than Chromium and multiple steps more open than Android, I think open source fans should consider supporting Firefox if the features are nearly equal, which in my opinion they are. This is why I hope Firefox continues to remain the Ubuntu default browser. Since Lubuntu has different constraints in choosing default apps, I'll let Julien and the Lubuntu devs make their own evaluation. Both browsers are fully supported in Ubuntu (Canonical is looking to hire someone who can help maintain Chromium). Jeremy ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Freedom is not free. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
Let's not start a war here... I don't want to be rude, but please keep such personal opinions out of this discussion.I think we can all agree that both Firefox and Chromium are rich in features. We are simply trying to find out which browser, out of Firefox and Chromium, use the least resources. We want to chose the lightest of the two to be our out-of-the-box web browser, whatever users prefer to use after that is simply an apt-get away. *Let's not think in terms of This is what I would prefer but rather This is what a user on a low spec machine would prefer.* Could NOT agree more :) Well said! I second this: *Let's not think in terms of This is what I would prefer but rather This is what a user on a low spec machine would prefer.* On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 6:55 PM, A. Andjelkovic andjelko...@gmail.comwrote: Let's not start a war here... I don't want to be rude, but please keep such personal opinions out of this discussion. I think we can all agree that both Firefox and Chromium are rich in features. We are simply trying to find out which browser, out of Firefox and Chromium, use the least resources. We want to chose the lightest of the two to be our out-of-the-box web browser, whatever users prefer to use after that is simply an apt-get away. Let's not think in terms of This is what I would prefer but rather This is what a user on a low spec machine would prefer. On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 3:21 PM, Jeremy Bicha jbi...@ubuntu.com wrote: On 9 November 2011 06:03, Leszek Lesner leszek.les...@web.de wrote: In my view Chromium offers still better features than firefox. Just look at the HTML5 capabilities it just beats firefox here with in my view important things just like HTML5 videoplayback (H264 is supported) Google is dropping H264 support: http://blog.chromium.org/2011/01/html-video-codec-support-in-chrome.html or the fact that every browser tab in chromium is running as a different process in a sandbox which makes a crash of one tab not concerning for other tabs. Firefox might do that in the future also, but it costs memory to sandbox each browser tab. And I believe Chromium cheats: when available memory gets too low, tabs begin sharing the same process so it's a bit harder to know what's really going on. All in all I am in flavor of Chromium as its still faster and offers the better features. That's a bit subjective as Firefox also offers unique features: It's possible to run a few hundred tabs in Firefox; the design of Chromium's tabbar makes that much more painful in Chromium. Firefox has a much more powerful addon framework (although Chromium may improve this next year). The user has more control over his data with Firefox Sync than with Google's version. While I'm not a Google-hater, I think it's very important for the free web that Mozilla continues to exist. Since Mozilla is a bit more open than Chromium and multiple steps more open than Android, I think open source fans should consider supporting Firefox if the features are nearly equal, which in my opinion they are. This is why I hope Firefox continues to remain the Ubuntu default browser. Since Lubuntu has different constraints in choosing default apps, I'll let Julien and the Lubuntu devs make their own evaluation. Both browsers are fully supported in Ubuntu (Canonical is looking to hire someone who can help maintain Chromium). Jeremy ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Best Regards, *amjjawad* Lubuntu One Stop Thread (Mega Thread)http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1844755 My Wiki Page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/amjjawad | My Launchpadhttps://launchpad.net/%7Eamjjawad | My Ubuntu Forum Profile http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=941822 *My Actions Speak Louder Than My Words ||** ** I walk by faith, not by sight **|| Imagination is more important than Knowledge || **Keep It Simple and Short* ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 4:55 PM, Gabriel Salles gabrielper...@gmail.com wrote: Should we consider Epiphany too or it is not stable enough yet? Gabriel Salles Quoting Julien: We should only consider Chromium or Firefox, because they have a strong upstream and are well maintained. Browser is a very important part of a system, and we really don't have time to do maintenance on it. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
Am 09.11.2011 15:55, schrieb A. Andjelkovic: Let's not think in terms of This is what I would prefer but rather This is what a user on a low spec machine would prefer. Isn't that the same ? I am running Chromium here on a 800 Mhz ARM Cortex A8 with 256 MB RAM. I guess that is a low machine. If you get to even lower hardware than both browsers feel slugish. Let's not start a war here... I don't want to be rude, but please keep such personal opinions out of this discussion. If you only choose software on the base of how much ram they use on ancient hardware then you will definitely fail in delivering a good user experience. Personal opinions matter a lot if they are supported by good arguments. And no I don't want to start a war here. I just want to discuss the advantages and disadvantages of both browsers. Google is dropping H264 support: http://blog.chromium.org/2011/01/html-video-codec-support-in-chrome.html Google Chrome != Chromium Firefox might do that in the future also, but it costs memory to sandbox each browser tab. And I believe Chromium cheats: when available memory gets too low, tabs begin sharing the same process so it's a bit harder to know what's really going on. At least from the user perspective you have still the advantage that one tab cannot crash the whole browser. While I'm not a Google-hater, I think it's very important for the free web that Mozilla continues to exist. Since Mozilla is a bit more open than Chromium and multiple steps more open than Android, I think open source fans should consider supporting Firefox if the features are nearly equal, which in my opinion they are. This is why I hope Firefox continues to remain the Ubuntu default browser. Since Lubuntu has different constraints in choosing default apps, I'll let Julien and the Lubuntu devs make their own evaluation. Both browsers are fully supported in Ubuntu (Canonical is looking to hire someone who can help maintain Chromium). I really don't think that if Lubuntu would ship Chromium instead of Firefox it will hurt Mozilla soo much that they have to fear their existens. And to be clear here, if we would to have choose a non free vs. a free software then I would also argue its definitely better to promote the free software. But in our case we have to made a choice between two free software products. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
Again, what is the goal of this? If the goal is to find the lighter of the two, will Lubuntu test and choose the lightest with each release? Does Lubuntu want to be constantly changing browsers? Dose Lubuntu care if it's open source? I agree it should be one of the two mentioned. I think Lubuntu should choose one and stick with it as long as it doesn't substantially fall behind the other. I don't think Lubuntu should split hairs over benchmarks. If the two are close, move on to the next question. So what is the long range stance on this. Lightest no matter what or lightweight balanced of other criteria? Tim On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 9:55 AM, A. Andjelkovic andjelko...@gmail.comwrote: Let's not start a war here... I don't want to be rude, but please keep such personal opinions out of this discussion. I think we can all agree that both Firefox and Chromium are rich in features. We are simply trying to find out which browser, out of Firefox and Chromium, use the least resources. We want to chose the lightest of the two to be our out-of-the-box web browser, whatever users prefer to use after that is simply an apt-get away. Let's not think in terms of This is what I would prefer but rather This is what a user on a low spec machine would prefer. On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 3:21 PM, Jeremy Bicha jbi...@ubuntu.com wrote: On 9 November 2011 06:03, Leszek Lesner leszek.les...@web.de wrote: In my view Chromium offers still better features than firefox. Just look at the HTML5 capabilities it just beats firefox here with in my view important things just like HTML5 videoplayback (H264 is supported) Google is dropping H264 support: http://blog.chromium.org/2011/01/html-video-codec-support-in-chrome.html or the fact that every browser tab in chromium is running as a different process in a sandbox which makes a crash of one tab not concerning for other tabs. Firefox might do that in the future also, but it costs memory to sandbox each browser tab. And I believe Chromium cheats: when available memory gets too low, tabs begin sharing the same process so it's a bit harder to know what's really going on. All in all I am in flavor of Chromium as its still faster and offers the better features. That's a bit subjective as Firefox also offers unique features: It's possible to run a few hundred tabs in Firefox; the design of Chromium's tabbar makes that much more painful in Chromium. Firefox has a much more powerful addon framework (although Chromium may improve this next year). The user has more control over his data with Firefox Sync than with Google's version. While I'm not a Google-hater, I think it's very important for the free web that Mozilla continues to exist. Since Mozilla is a bit more open than Chromium and multiple steps more open than Android, I think open source fans should consider supporting Firefox if the features are nearly equal, which in my opinion they are. This is why I hope Firefox continues to remain the Ubuntu default browser. Since Lubuntu has different constraints in choosing default apps, I'll let Julien and the Lubuntu devs make their own evaluation. Both browsers are fully supported in Ubuntu (Canonical is looking to hire someone who can help maintain Chromium). Jeremy ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
Ok, on the PC where I'm planning to do the test, the reading of both LXTask and GNOME System Monitor are equal now :) http://i39.tinypic.com/10ym7me.jpg I don't know what is wrong with my Lubuntu 11.04? it's acting crazy recently. Will try to do the test today and will let you know :) On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 8:34 PM, amjjawad HOOHAA amjja...@gmail.com wrote: Let's not start a war here... I don't want to be rude, but please keep such personal opinions out of this discussion.I think we can all agree that both Firefox and Chromium are rich in features. We are simply trying to find out which browser, out of Firefox and Chromium, use the least resources. We want to chose the lightest of the two to be our out-of-the-box web browser, whatever users prefer to use after that is simply an apt-get away. *Let's not think in terms of This is what I would prefer but rather This is what a user on a low spec machine would prefer.* Could NOT agree more :) Well said! I second this: *Let's not think in terms of This is what I would prefer but rather This is what a user on a low spec machine would prefer.* On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 6:55 PM, A. Andjelkovic andjelko...@gmail.comwrote: Let's not start a war here... I don't want to be rude, but please keep such personal opinions out of this discussion. I think we can all agree that both Firefox and Chromium are rich in features. We are simply trying to find out which browser, out of Firefox and Chromium, use the least resources. We want to chose the lightest of the two to be our out-of-the-box web browser, whatever users prefer to use after that is simply an apt-get away. Let's not think in terms of This is what I would prefer but rather This is what a user on a low spec machine would prefer. On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 3:21 PM, Jeremy Bicha jbi...@ubuntu.com wrote: On 9 November 2011 06:03, Leszek Lesner leszek.les...@web.de wrote: In my view Chromium offers still better features than firefox. Just look at the HTML5 capabilities it just beats firefox here with in my view important things just like HTML5 videoplayback (H264 is supported) Google is dropping H264 support: http://blog.chromium.org/2011/01/html-video-codec-support-in-chrome.html or the fact that every browser tab in chromium is running as a different process in a sandbox which makes a crash of one tab not concerning for other tabs. Firefox might do that in the future also, but it costs memory to sandbox each browser tab. And I believe Chromium cheats: when available memory gets too low, tabs begin sharing the same process so it's a bit harder to know what's really going on. All in all I am in flavor of Chromium as its still faster and offers the better features. That's a bit subjective as Firefox also offers unique features: It's possible to run a few hundred tabs in Firefox; the design of Chromium's tabbar makes that much more painful in Chromium. Firefox has a much more powerful addon framework (although Chromium may improve this next year). The user has more control over his data with Firefox Sync than with Google's version. While I'm not a Google-hater, I think it's very important for the free web that Mozilla continues to exist. Since Mozilla is a bit more open than Chromium and multiple steps more open than Android, I think open source fans should consider supporting Firefox if the features are nearly equal, which in my opinion they are. This is why I hope Firefox continues to remain the Ubuntu default browser. Since Lubuntu has different constraints in choosing default apps, I'll let Julien and the Lubuntu devs make their own evaluation. Both browsers are fully supported in Ubuntu (Canonical is looking to hire someone who can help maintain Chromium). Jeremy ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Best Regards, *amjjawad* Lubuntu One Stop Thread (Mega Thread)http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1844755 My Wiki Page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/amjjawad | My Launchpadhttps://launchpad.net/%7Eamjjawad | My Ubuntu Forum Profile http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=941822 *My Actions Speak Louder Than My Words ||** ** I walk by faith, not by sight **|| Imagination is more important than Knowledge || **Keep It Simple and Short* -- Best Regards, *amjjawad* Lubuntu One Stop Thread (Mega Thread)http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1844755 My Wiki Page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/amjjawad | My Launchpadhttps://launchpad.net/%7Eamjjawad |
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
On 09/11/11 16:30, b g wrote: This all sounds like personal preference and subjective arguments to me. After all, users can install whatever browser they desire. Personally, I wish Lubuntu would boot as fast as it used to. On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 8:55 AM, A. Andjelkovic andjelko...@gmail.com mailto:andjelko...@gmail.com wrote: Let's not start a war here... I don't want to be rude, but please keep such personal opinions out of this discussion. I think we can all agree that both Firefox and Chromium are rich in features. We are simply trying to find out which browser, out of Firefox and Chromium, use the least resources. We want to chose the lightest of the two to be our out-of-the-box web browser, whatever users prefer to use after that is simply an apt-get away. Let's not think in terms of This is what I would prefer but rather This is what a user on a low spec machine would prefer. On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 3:21 PM, Jeremy Bicha jbi...@ubuntu.com mailto:jbi...@ubuntu.com wrote: On 9 November 2011 06:03, Leszek Lesner leszek.les...@web.de mailto:leszek.les...@web.de wrote: In my view Chromium offers still better features than firefox. Just look at the HTML5 capabilities it just beats firefox here with in my view important things just like HTML5 videoplayback (H264 is supported) Google is dropping H264 support: http://blog.chromium.org/2011/01/html-video-codec-support-in-chrome.html or the fact that every browser tab in chromium is running as a different process in a sandbox which makes a crash of one tab not concerning for other tabs. Firefox might do that in the future also, but it costs memory to sandbox each browser tab. And I believe Chromium cheats: when available memory gets too low, tabs begin sharing the same process so it's a bit harder to know what's really going on. All in all I am in flavor of Chromium as its still faster and offers the better features. That's a bit subjective as Firefox also offers unique features: It's possible to run a few hundred tabs in Firefox; the design of Chromium's tabbar makes that much more painful in Chromium. Firefox has a much more powerful addon framework (although Chromium may improve this next year). The user has more control over his data with Firefox Sync than with Google's version. While I'm not a Google-hater, I think it's very important for the free web that Mozilla continues to exist. Since Mozilla is a bit more open than Chromium and multiple steps more open than Android, I think open source fans should consider supporting Firefox if the features are nearly equal, which in my opinion they are. This is why I hope Firefox continues to remain the Ubuntu default browser. Since Lubuntu has different constraints in choosing default apps, I'll let Julien and the Lubuntu devs make their own evaluation. Both browsers are fully supported in Ubuntu (Canonical is looking to hire someone who can help maintain Chromium). Jeremy ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop https://launchpad.net/%7Elubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net mailto:lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop https://launchpad.net/%7Elubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop https://launchpad.net/%7Elubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net mailto:lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop https://launchpad.net/%7Elubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Freedom is not free. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp I'm new-ish. How fast did it used to boot? -- Sent from a linux laptop! ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
Guys, With all due respect to EVERYONE, I'm not sure if this debate/discussion/argument is even healthy or not any more? I know we, as Lubuntu Team Members, must discuss between us first of all but we must not forget about one simple fact ... USERS have the louder voice IMHO. I do believe that such choice must first be made by users. I mean, they should agree about that. EVERYONE, and I mean everyone on Ubuntu Forum is asking us to keep Lubuntu as it's and to improve it to be even better BUT NOT TO follow Ubuntu's Steps. Everyone is aware that Mint is Rank 1 now on Distrowatch. Who knows what could happen? Do you guys know how many users has moved from Ubuntu to Lubuntu? I almost see 5-10 every day. I'm ready to do a survey and see how many actually moved to Lubuntu and will start that today, at least for my own information. I downloaded Fedora 16 LXDE today because I'm having Multi-Boot machine with many LXDE Distributions to compare between them. It has Firefox by default, not Chromium. This is FYI not FYA. I suggest instead of spending some time discussing about that, why not do some tests and send the report via mailing list? As many already mentioned, it's apt-get install and mission accomplished. IMHO, there are a lot to talk about rather than Firefox VS Chromium talk. I'm out of this discussion and going to do two things and get back to you: 1- I'll do my test and send it via mailing list. 2- I'll write my suggestions regarding 12.04 on my thread and send it to everyone. I don't mean to be rude here at all, just stating my humble opinion and I could be wrong but that's my point after all. Disagree but don't disrespect is my motto :) Cya On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 8:46 PM, Leszek Lesner leszek.les...@web.de wrote: Am 09.11.2011 15:55, schrieb A. Andjelkovic: Let's not think in terms of This is what I would prefer but rather This is what a user on a low spec machine would prefer. Isn't that the same ? I am running Chromium here on a 800 Mhz ARM Cortex A8 with 256 MB RAM. I guess that is a low machine. If you get to even lower hardware than both browsers feel slugish. Let's not start a war here... I don't want to be rude, but please keep such personal opinions out of this discussion. If you only choose software on the base of how much ram they use on ancient hardware then you will definitely fail in delivering a good user experience. Personal opinions matter a lot if they are supported by good arguments. And no I don't want to start a war here. I just want to discuss the advantages and disadvantages of both browsers. Google is dropping H264 support: http://blog.chromium.org/2011/01/html-video-codec-support-in-chrome.html Google Chrome != Chromium Firefox might do that in the future also, but it costs memory to sandbox each browser tab. And I believe Chromium cheats: when available memory gets too low, tabs begin sharing the same process so it's a bit harder to know what's really going on. At least from the user perspective you have still the advantage that one tab cannot crash the whole browser. While I'm not a Google-hater, I think it's very important for the free web that Mozilla continues to exist. Since Mozilla is a bit more open than Chromium and multiple steps more open than Android, I think open source fans should consider supporting Firefox if the features are nearly equal, which in my opinion they are. This is why I hope Firefox continues to remain the Ubuntu default browser. Since Lubuntu has different constraints in choosing default apps, I'll let Julien and the Lubuntu devs make their own evaluation. Both browsers are fully supported in Ubuntu (Canonical is looking to hire someone who can help maintain Chromium). I really don't think that if Lubuntu would ship Chromium instead of Firefox it will hurt Mozilla soo much that they have to fear their existens. And to be clear here, if we would to have choose a non free vs. a free software then I would also argue its definitely better to promote the free software. But in our case we have to made a choice between two free software products. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Best Regards, *amjjawad* Lubuntu One Stop Thread (Mega Thread)http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1844755 My Wiki Page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/amjjawad | My Launchpadhttps://launchpad.net/%7Eamjjawad | My Ubuntu Forum Profile http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=941822 *My Actions Speak Louder Than My Words ||** ** I walk by faith, not by sight **|| Imagination is more important than Knowledge || **Keep It Simple and Short* ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to :
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
What are the chances of having an installer that gives you the choice to install either one? Maybe even add Midori to the mix? It doesn't matter to me either way: both are fast enough on my netbook and each continues to improve. On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 2:52 PM, amjjawad HOOHAA amjja...@gmail.com wrote: Guys, With all due respect to EVERYONE, I'm not sure if this debate/discussion/argument is even healthy or not any more? I know we, as Lubuntu Team Members, must discuss between us first of all but we must not forget about one simple fact ... USERS have the louder voice IMHO. I do believe that such choice must first be made by users. I mean, they should agree about that. EVERYONE, and I mean everyone on Ubuntu Forum is asking us to keep Lubuntu as it's and to improve it to be even better BUT NOT TO follow Ubuntu's Steps. Everyone is aware that Mint is Rank 1 now on Distrowatch. Who knows what could happen? Do you guys know how many users has moved from Ubuntu to Lubuntu? I almost see 5-10 every day. I'm ready to do a survey and see how many actually moved to Lubuntu and will start that today, at least for my own information. I downloaded Fedora 16 LXDE today because I'm having Multi-Boot machine with many LXDE Distributions to compare between them. It has Firefox by default, not Chromium. This is FYI not FYA. I suggest instead of spending some time discussing about that, why not do some tests and send the report via mailing list? As many already mentioned, it's apt-get install and mission accomplished. IMHO, there are a lot to talk about rather than Firefox VS Chromium talk. I'm out of this discussion and going to do two things and get back to you: 1- I'll do my test and send it via mailing list. 2- I'll write my suggestions regarding 12.04 on my thread and send it to everyone. I don't mean to be rude here at all, just stating my humble opinion and I could be wrong but that's my point after all. Disagree but don't disrespect is my motto :) Cya On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 8:46 PM, Leszek Lesner leszek.les...@web.de wrote: Am 09.11.2011 15:55, schrieb A. Andjelkovic: Let's not think in terms of This is what I would prefer but rather This is what a user on a low spec machine would prefer. Isn't that the same ? I am running Chromium here on a 800 Mhz ARM Cortex A8 with 256 MB RAM. I guess that is a low machine. If you get to even lower hardware than both browsers feel slugish. Let's not start a war here... I don't want to be rude, but please keep such personal opinions out of this discussion. If you only choose software on the base of how much ram they use on ancient hardware then you will definitely fail in delivering a good user experience. Personal opinions matter a lot if they are supported by good arguments. And no I don't want to start a war here. I just want to discuss the advantages and disadvantages of both browsers. Google is dropping H264 support: http://blog.chromium.org/2011/01/html-video-codec-support-in-chrome.html Google Chrome != Chromium Firefox might do that in the future also, but it costs memory to sandbox each browser tab. And I believe Chromium cheats: when available memory gets too low, tabs begin sharing the same process so it's a bit harder to know what's really going on. At least from the user perspective you have still the advantage that one tab cannot crash the whole browser. While I'm not a Google-hater, I think it's very important for the free web that Mozilla continues to exist. Since Mozilla is a bit more open than Chromium and multiple steps more open than Android, I think open source fans should consider supporting Firefox if the features are nearly equal, which in my opinion they are. This is why I hope Firefox continues to remain the Ubuntu default browser. Since Lubuntu has different constraints in choosing default apps, I'll let Julien and the Lubuntu devs make their own evaluation. Both browsers are fully supported in Ubuntu (Canonical is looking to hire someone who can help maintain Chromium). I really don't think that if Lubuntu would ship Chromium instead of Firefox it will hurt Mozilla soo much that they have to fear their existens. And to be clear here, if we would to have choose a non free vs. a free software then I would also argue its definitely better to promote the free software. But in our case we have to made a choice between two free software products. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Best Regards, amjjawad Lubuntu One Stop Thread (Mega Thread) My Wiki Page | My Launchpad | My Ubuntu Forum Profile My Actions Speak Louder Than My Words || I walk by faith, not by sight || Imagination is more important than
