Re: [lubuntu-users] [lubuntu-devel] LXQt Transition

[Ian Bruntlett]

Hi Simon,

On 13 August 2016 at 20:20, Simon Quigley  wrote:

> For those of you who are curious about our LXQt transition, I recently
> wrote a blog post about it. Here is a link:
> http://tsimonq2.net/blog/2016/08/13/
>
> Let me know what you think.
>
As requested, I read your blog post.

1) To quote you, "I've been using LXQt for a while now, and it has a lot of
advantages not only in applications, but the desktop itself". Yes, I'd like
to read more about that.

2) Let me know when the isos will be ready. Time permitting I'll test it on
various systems. And then I'll be helping friends use it on their systems.

3) Once I've got to grips with Lubuntu using LXQt I will create an updated
version of my brief illustrated guide to Lubuntu for friends to use when
they upgrade their Lubuntu installs.

BW,


Ian

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[lubuntu-users] LXQt Transition

[Simon Quigley]

For those of you who are curious about our LXQt transition, I recently
wrote a blog post about it. Here is a link:
http://tsimonq2.net/blog/2016/08/13/

Let me know what you think.

-- 
Simon Quigley
tsimo...@lubuntu.me
tsimonq2 on freenode and OFTC

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Re: [lubuntu-users] Problem with LIVE CD Lubuntu 16.04.1 graphics in a VM WORKAROUND found

[scrooyahoo]

Again, *PLEASE* go and flag that this bug affects you in Launchpad:

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/virtualbox/+bug/1379062



I just added my comment there, who's next?

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Re: [lubuntu-users] Problem with LIVE CD Lubuntu 16.04.1 graphics in a VM WORKAROUND found

[Liam Proven]

Redirecting this to the list in case it's generally helpful...

On 13 August 2016 at 10:20, Neill Rutherford gmail.com
 wrote:
> Liam
>
> Success I have found a workaround. With the VM system (VirtualBox Version
> 5.0.26 r1088240)
>
> boot the VM OS with the physical DVD in the optical drive ( i have some read
> errors occurring but it still works)
> choose "English"
> choose "Try before you install"
> let the system boot up to where the screwed up graphics desktop is visible.
> 
> sudo service lightdm stop
> 
> login (lubuntu no password)
> sudo service lightdm start
>
> and it works [I have just re-downloaded the ISO and ran the process on the
> ISO file rather than the physical DVD this all works even logout. However on
> the physical DVD the graphics went screwy on Logout could be a problem with
> the DVD or the DVD drive]

This will work, yes, but it's a very complex way to do it. All you
need to do is switch to text mode and back, not stop and restart
X.org.

> However that is not going to make a very impressive movie to convince people
> to switch to or at least try Lubuntu for their old slow computer.

You know, there are distros that are arguably more directly targeted
at old machines:

http://www.lxle.net/

> I could of course chop that bit out but someone following along using a
> similar VM LIVE CD OS rather that the physical bare metal boot from Live CD
> could end up with a screwed up graphic desktop.

If you are willing to make changes and remaster the CD, the problem is
known and documented.

https://www.virtualbox.org/ticket/13615

Again, *PLEASE* go and flag that this bug affects you in Launchpad:

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/virtualbox/+bug/1379062

Add any info you have.

This is a *much* more productive thing to do than posting on this mailing list!

Also, note, it does not seem to be a Lubuntu-specific issue, so you
may wish to take it to the general Ubuntu list or to the fora.

> Where would the best place to look for such a
> change occurring please?

There is no chance unless that bug gets addresses.

> Typically how soon would this be done or are we to wait for 16.04.2
>
> *** Note that at step 6 that one is typing blind
>
> *** my host key is 

So here is how to fix the corruption:

[1] boot the ISO as normal. Wait for the corrupted screen to appear
[2] press AltGr + F1
[3] Wait for the screen to clear and the login prompt to appear
[4] Press AltGr + F7

You should now be seeing a clear uncorrupted desktop.



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Re: [lubuntu-users] cups not built-in ?

[scrooyahoo]

No body remembers that Lubuntu was based on the old Ubuntu Lite 
(u-lite)

and its purposes?
http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=ulite


It's always good to learn a bit of history!
Maybe it is because LXDE runs so good on newer hardware that there is a 
need to cover both in a different way?


One absolute minimal Live CD, and one for general use?

Is Lubuntus goal still the same? From the minimal system requirements 
stated on the wiki i think yes.
And then i ask myself again the same question again, should there be an 
option to better cover both use cases?


One for real old hardware, and one for more modern hardware.


Or maybe a even more minimal approach and leave it all to the end user 
what additional applications to run.


Last night i had a look at the QNX Demo disk. (15 years ago i have 
worked with QNX, and i remembered this awesome floppy)
It runs an entire graphical desktop + webbrowser and some tools from a 
1.44MB floppy.

download it here:
https://winworldpc.com/product/qnx/144mb-demo

Or see someone else play with it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_VlI6IBEJ0  (turn the volume down a bit 
before you load this)


I know that all the hardware support in the kernel needs 100+ MB, still 
700MB seems a bit much after seeing what can be done with 1.44MB. 
Eventhough that floppy is 15 years old.  It's scares me a bit if 15 
years from mow we would use 400times more space then what we do today. 
Then we would need 280GB to make a LiveCD!

I mean does anybody realise how insanely big 700MB actually is?. :-)








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Re: [lubuntu-users] cups not built-in ?

[Jörn Schönyan]

People from Asia use Lubuntu, too - Kylin may be too heavy for them. If 1 or 2 
billion people aren't able to use a distribution, it is pointless. 

But nearly every computer on the world which is capable to run Lubuntu can boot 
from DVD or USB. Corner cases use Plop. So, the size limit isn't helpful at 
all. 

Best regards, Jörn 

Am 13. August 2016 10:02:54 MESZ, schrieb Narcis Garcia :
>I believed that Lubuntu can run with RAM 256~384MiB
>Many old computers (not super old) don't boot USB media. Some because
>BIOS hasn't the feature, and some because presented boot option doesn't
>work.
>Is Plop included in ISO image as SmartBootMedia* is?
>
>I believe an old computer is recoverable if it can be used as a
>typewriter, printing, managing USB volumes to save documents, and
>some networking {shared folders, shared printers, wikipedia browsing,
>etc.}. If it's easy to use and compatible with hardware
>upgrades... better then.
>
>About heavy packages for east asiatic fonts, there is a Kylin project
>more adequate for them. It's like the impossibility to include full
>spanish desktop in a live session --> it will be installed when
>installing to hard disk with internet access.
>
>I cannot mind that a simple and usable operating system doesn't fit in
>700MiB... and compressed... and expandable with package manager.
>
>No body remembers that Lubuntu was based on the old Ubuntu Lite
>(u-lite)
>and its purposes?
>http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=ulite
>
>
>(*) Lacks of sbminst
>
>
>El 12/08/16 a les 20:42, Nio Wiklund ha escrit:
>> [bottom posting]
>> 
>> Den 2016-08-12 kl. 09:33, skrev Narcis Garcia:
>>> The lightest variant of Ubuntu, Lubuntu, should fit on a traditional
>>> CD-ROM and should be installable without internet access. This is
>the
>>> typical scenario (small computer, small internet) where someone
>chooses
>>> Lubuntu.
>>>
>>> I believe all basic variants of Lubuntu should fit on a 700MB
>CD-ROM:
>>> i386-desktop*
>>> powerpc-desktop*
>>> i386-alternate
>>> powerpc-alternate
>>>
>>> - Why Mozilla software is kept instead of CUPS?? What about Midori
>>> browser or others? Firefox is 45MiB compressed, Midori 11MiB, full
>CUPS
>>> 10MiB.
>>> - If someone needs Sylpheed, has internet access, then can install
>it
>>> after; same with Pidgin and Transmission.
>>> - Abiword can be a good selection; Gnumeric is not too esential as
>the
>>> word processor is.
>>> - How many partition managers are needed? GParted + gnomedisks ?
>>> - How many package managers are needed? Synaptic + softwarecenter ?
>>> - How many audio players are needed? Audacious + gnomemplayer ?
>>> - Why there are 73MiB (compressed) dedicated to fonts-noto-cjk ? And
>>> 8MiB to fonts-nanum ?
>>> - 14MiB (compressed) dedicated to software-center metadata
>>> (app-install-data) ?
>>> - 9MiB for linux-headers ? Need to recompile kernel/modules offline?
>>> - About gnome-icon-theme (9MiB), I believe that it should be split
>in
>>> gnome-icon-theme-minimal and gnome-icon-theme-full; then select only
>the
>>> minimal for ISO media.
>>>
>>>
>>> (*) Live sessions are essential to check if the OS works, before
>>> installing over a previous OS in the computer.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> El 11/08/16 a les 20:13, Ian Bruntlett ha escrit:
 Hi there,

 On 11 August 2016 at 19:00, Aere Greenway
>> wrote:

 On 08/11/2016 11:49 AM, Narcis Garcia wrote:

 I believe that the problem is on software selection to
>build
 live/install media, and not on any software package.
 If live/install media hasn't CUPS, seems to be caused by a
 discard decision.

 What I don't understand is, if this decision is for CD
>space
 reasons,
 why Lubuntu ISOs are still over 700MB.

 I would be very surprised if cups were intentionally discarded
>for
 space reasons.

 The ability to print is a necessity for any computer you do
>actual
 work with (in my opinion).

 If things are that desperate space-wise, the goal of fitting it
>on a
 CD should be abandoned, and defeat admitted.


 It currently doesn't fit on a CD. To install one of the Ubuntus, go
>to
 http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/netboot/ and download the relevant iso.
>From
 what I see there, 32-bit Ubuntus can be installed by putting a 48M
>iso
 onto CD-R and choosing options - e.g. Ubuntu or Lubuntu packages -
>at
 install time. I've been using a NetBoot CD-R for some of my 32-bit
 installs.

 HTH,


 Ian

 -- 
 -- ACCU - Professionalism in programming - http://www.accu.org
 -- My writing - https://sites.google.com/site/ianbruntlett/
 -- Free Software page -
 https://sites.google.com/site/ianbruntlett/home/free-software

>>>
>> 
>> Hi all Narcis, Aere and all other Lubuntu users and 

Re: [lubuntu-users] cups not built-in ?

[Narcis Garcia]

I believed that Lubuntu can run with RAM 256~384MiB
Many old computers (not super old) don't boot USB media. Some because
BIOS hasn't the feature, and some because presented boot option doesn't
work.
Is Plop included in ISO image as SmartBootMedia* is?

I believe an old computer is recoverable if it can be used as a
typewriter, printing, managing USB volumes to save documents, and
some networking {shared folders, shared printers, wikipedia browsing,
etc.}. If it's easy to use and compatible with hardware
upgrades... better then.

About heavy packages for east asiatic fonts, there is a Kylin project
more adequate for them. It's like the impossibility to include full
spanish desktop in a live session --> it will be installed when
installing to hard disk with internet access.

I cannot mind that a simple and usable operating system doesn't fit in
700MiB... and compressed... and expandable with package manager.

No body remembers that Lubuntu was based on the old Ubuntu Lite (u-lite)
and its purposes?
http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=ulite


(*) Lacks of sbminst


El 12/08/16 a les 20:42, Nio Wiklund ha escrit:
> [bottom posting]
> 
> Den 2016-08-12 kl. 09:33, skrev Narcis Garcia:
>> The lightest variant of Ubuntu, Lubuntu, should fit on a traditional
>> CD-ROM and should be installable without internet access. This is the
>> typical scenario (small computer, small internet) where someone chooses
>> Lubuntu.
>>
>> I believe all basic variants of Lubuntu should fit on a 700MB CD-ROM:
>> i386-desktop*
>> powerpc-desktop*
>> i386-alternate
>> powerpc-alternate
>>
>> - Why Mozilla software is kept instead of CUPS?? What about Midori
>> browser or others? Firefox is 45MiB compressed, Midori 11MiB, full CUPS
>> 10MiB.
>> - If someone needs Sylpheed, has internet access, then can install it
>> after; same with Pidgin and Transmission.
>> - Abiword can be a good selection; Gnumeric is not too esential as the
>> word processor is.
>> - How many partition managers are needed? GParted + gnomedisks ?
>> - How many package managers are needed? Synaptic + softwarecenter ?
>> - How many audio players are needed? Audacious + gnomemplayer ?
>> - Why there are 73MiB (compressed) dedicated to fonts-noto-cjk ? And
>> 8MiB to fonts-nanum ?
>> - 14MiB (compressed) dedicated to software-center metadata
>> (app-install-data) ?
>> - 9MiB for linux-headers ? Need to recompile kernel/modules offline?
>> - About gnome-icon-theme (9MiB), I believe that it should be split in
>> gnome-icon-theme-minimal and gnome-icon-theme-full; then select only the
>> minimal for ISO media.
>>
>>
>> (*) Live sessions are essential to check if the OS works, before
>> installing over a previous OS in the computer.
>>
>>
>>
>> El 11/08/16 a les 20:13, Ian Bruntlett ha escrit:
>>> Hi there,
>>>
>>> On 11 August 2016 at 19:00, Aere Greenway >> > wrote:
>>>
>>> On 08/11/2016 11:49 AM, Narcis Garcia wrote:
>>>
>>> I believe that the problem is on software selection to build
>>> live/install media, and not on any software package.
>>> If live/install media hasn't CUPS, seems to be caused by a
>>> discard decision.
>>>
>>> What I don't understand is, if this decision is for CD space
>>> reasons,
>>> why Lubuntu ISOs are still over 700MB.
>>>
>>> I would be very surprised if cups were intentionally discarded for
>>> space reasons.
>>>
>>> The ability to print is a necessity for any computer you do actual
>>> work with (in my opinion).
>>>
>>> If things are that desperate space-wise, the goal of fitting it on a
>>> CD should be abandoned, and defeat admitted.
>>>
>>>
>>> It currently doesn't fit on a CD. To install one of the Ubuntus, go to
>>> http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/netboot/ and download the relevant iso. From
>>> what I see there, 32-bit Ubuntus can be installed by putting a 48M iso
>>> onto CD-R and choosing options - e.g. Ubuntu or Lubuntu packages - at
>>> install time. I've been using a NetBoot CD-R for some of my 32-bit
>>> installs.
>>>
>>> HTH,
>>>
>>>
>>> Ian
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> -- ACCU - Professionalism in programming - http://www.accu.org
>>> -- My writing - https://sites.google.com/site/ianbruntlett/
>>> -- Free Software page -
>>> https://sites.google.com/site/ianbruntlett/home/free-software
>>>
>>
> 
> Hi all Narcis, Aere and all other Lubuntu users and developers,
> 
> I agree that this is a very important subject to discuss:
> 
> 1. To be or not to be within CD size
> 
> 2. if we decide that the Lubuntu iso files should be within CD size,
> which program packages to skip or replace.
> 
> 3. else, which program packages to add or replace to take advantage of
> the release from the CD size limit.
> 
> -o-
> 
> Where should be draw the limit? Are there any ten year old computers,
> that cannot boot from DVD or USB? My twelve year old Dell Dimension 4600
> can boot from both DVD and USB without 

Re: [lubuntu-users] cups not built-in ?

[Narcis Garcia]

I haven't much knowledge about captive portals;
What exactly do they need from a web browser?
Why other browsers than Mozilla's aren't useful for C.P. scenario?



El 12/08/16 a les 16:53, Brendan Perrine ha escrit:
> On Fri, 12 Aug 2016 09:33:47 +0200
> Narcis Garcia  wrote:
> 
>> - Why Mozilla software is kept instead of CUPS?? What about Midori
> Unfortanetly not having firefox on the live session could make a pain of 
> trying to use the live session and not have internet acess on places with 
> captive portals. I would be shocked if they tested their portal with midori 
> and unlikely the people making it have ever heard of midori. I don't like 
> captive portals but unfortanetly they are a reality even at places my linux 
> users group meets. 
> 
> I am not sure many people on this list in places that don't need 
> fonts-noto-cjk show part of the full package descrption "  This package 
> contains Noto font families for Traditional Chinese,
>  Simplified Chinese, Japanese and Korean:" Which is well over a billion 
> people can use this. 
> 
> 
> Well  gnome-disks has the really nice feature of being able to check on the 
> hardware of the drive you install onto this can be quite frustrating if it is 
> actually bad and does not install or if say it does not boot you can check 
> hard disk seems fine in smart data from the live session.  I do think Gparted 
> is better at managing partitions. 
> 
> These are some reason why these packages make sense in the live session. 
> 
> 

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