[lubuntu-users] Using Pentium 3 Machines on Lubuntu--posting from "the top"--ode to PPC

[Eric Bradshaw]

On Sun, 14 May 2017 11:44:08 -0700, Brendan || Lyn Perrine wrote:


Although I know pentium IV( prescott) to core 2 was a huge jump on the
intel side I also have 4 GB of ram in this laptop. It seems to do
everything but gaming and running virtual machines well.



Just wanted to chime-in and lament the loss of the PPC *and the P4.* 
When Computers4Christians started, I was the "Mac guy." I greatly 
enjoyed giving a new life to PowerPC Macs for a good while, but soon the 
demands of the Internet made all but the most souped-up PPC Macs 
impossible to give away and feel good about it. The same thing happened 
roughly two years ago with i386/32-bit/P4 computers (PIII was already 
too old in 2011). Technology marches on - and on the Internet - that's 
video technology. Even when a parent says they just need their child/ren 
to be able to do homework - that now necessitates that computer being 
able to reliably stream video.


Websites I use to test machines include http://www.godtube.com/movies/, 
http://www.godvine.com/, http://www.jesuseveryday.com/onlinemovies.htm, 
and for Flash specifically (yes, Flash is still around); 
https://michaelianeade.wordpress.com/good-flash-websites/, 
http://www.ebizmba.com/articles/best-flash-sites and always 
http://www.snailsanimation.com/benchmark08_play.php


Eric
--
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God Bless You,
Computers4Christians
http://Computers4Christians.org/Cheyenne/


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Re: [lubuntu-users] Using Pentium 3 Machines on Lubuntu--posting from "the top"--ode to PPC

[Ian Bruntlett]

Hi All,

Regarding the Firefox crash. Using Synaptic Package manager I installed the
Firefox debug symbols package firefox-dbg.

I then ran Firefox 3 times in gdb. It consistently crashes in a function
being called by:-
/build/firefox-wWifUV/firefox-53.0.2+build1/js/src/jit/BaselineJIT.cpp:157

I've attached more detailed files to this message.

I believe that Firefox is creating object code on the fly that is not
always compatible with some 32-bit systems.

Before I can prove that I'll have to learn how to use gdb a bit better,
look at the Firefox source code first and also brush up on my assembly
language.

BW,


Ian

-- 
-- ACCU - Professionalism in programming - http://www.accu.org
-- My writing - https://sites.google.com/site/ianbruntlett/
-- Free Software page - https://sites.google.com/site/
ianbruntlett/home/free-software
jules@verne:~$ lscpu
Architecture:  i686
CPU op-mode(s):32-bit
Byte Order:Little Endian
CPU(s):1
On-line CPU(s) list:   0
Thread(s) per core:1
Core(s) per socket:1
Socket(s): 1
Vendor ID: GenuineIntel
CPU family:6
Model: 8
Model name:Pentium III (Coppermine)
Stepping:  6
CPU MHz:   647.186
BogoMIPS:  1294.37
Flags: fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 sep mtrr pge mca cmov 
pse36 mmx fxsr sse
jules@verne:~$ free -h
  totalusedfree  shared  buff/cache   available
Mem:   493M 80M247M2.3M164M388M
Swap:  952M 44M908M
jules@verne:~$ lsb_release -a
No LSB modules are available.
Distributor ID: Ubuntu
Description:Ubuntu 16.04.2 LTS
Release:16.04
Codename:   xenial
jules@verne:~$

jules@verne:/usr/lib/firefox$ less firefox.sh
jules@verne:/usr/lib/firefox$ file firefox
firefox: ELF 32-bit LSB shared object, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), 
dynamically linked, interpreter /lib/ld-linux.so.2, for GNU/Linux 2.6.32, 
BuildID[sha1]=b7e07ebbac37c15d1d764c45a45ceb1710622671, stripped


jules@verne:/usr/lib/firefox$ gdb firefox
GNU gdb (Ubuntu 7.11.1-0ubuntu1~16.04) 7.11.1
Copyright (C) 2016 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
License GPLv3+: GNU GPL version 3 or later 
This is free software: you are free to change and redistribute it.
There is NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by law.  Type "show copying"
and "show warranty" for details.
This GDB was configured as "i686-linux-gnu".
Type "show configuration" for configuration details.
For bug reporting instructions, please see:
.
Find the GDB manual and other documentation resources online at:
.
For help, type "help".
Type "apropos word" to search for commands related to "word"...
Reading symbols from firefox...Reading symbols from 
/usr/lib/debug//usr/lib/firefox/firefox...done.
done.
(gdb) run
Starting program: /usr/lib/firefox/firefox 
[Thread debugging using libthread_db enabled]
Using host libthread_db library "/lib/i386-linux-gnu/libthread_db.so.1".
[New Thread 0xb15d7b40 (LWP 2591)]
[Thread 0xb15d7b40 (LWP 2591) exited]
[New Thread 0xb15d7b40 (LWP 2593)]
[New Thread 0xae9deb40 (LWP 2594)]
[New Thread 0xae1ddb40 (LWP 2595)]
[New Thread 0xad9dcb40 (LWP 2596)]
[New Thread 0xacfffb40 (LWP 2597)]
[New Thread 0xac7feb40 (LWP 2598)]
[New Thread 0xabffdb40 (LWP 2599)]
[New Thread 0xab7fcb40 (LWP 2600)]
[New Thread 0xaaffbb40 (LWP 2601)]
[New Thread 0xaa7fab40 (LWP 2602)]
[New Thread 0xa9affb40 (LWP 2603)]
[New Thread 0xa92feb40 (LWP 2604)]
[New Thread 0xa8afdb40 (LWP 2605)]
[New Thread 0xa80ffb40 (LWP 2606)]

Thread 1 "firefox" received signal SIGILL, Illegal instruction.
0x3b93e26c in ?? ()
(gdb) backtrace
#0  0x3b93e26c in ?? ()
#1  0x3b9304d9 in ?? ()
#2  0xb4177dd5 in EnterBaseline (cx=0x0, cx@entry=0xad0c7000, data=...)
at 
/build/firefox-wWifUV/firefox-53.0.2+build1/js/src/jit/BaselineJIT.cpp:157
#3  0xb417bab7 in js::jit::EnterBaselineMethod (cx=0xad0c7000, state=...)
at 
/build/firefox-wWifUV/firefox-53.0.2+build1/js/src/jit/BaselineJIT.cpp:195
#4  0xb3c09930 in js::RunScript (cx=0xad0c7000, state=...)
at /build/firefox-wWifUV/firefox-53.0.2+build1/js/src/vm/Interpreter.cpp:396
#5  0xb3c09d38 in js::InternalCallOrConstruct (cx=0xad0c7000, args=..., 
construct=js::NO_CONSTRUCT)
at /build/firefox-wWifUV/firefox-53.0.2+build1/js/src/vm/Interpreter.cpp:478
#6  0xb3c0a6bb in InternalCall (args=..., cx=0xad0c7000)
at /build/firefox-wWifUV/firefox-53.0.2+build1/js/src/vm/Interpreter.cpp:505
#7  js::Call (cx=0xad0c7000, fval=..., thisv=..., args=..., rval=...)
at /build/firefox-wWifUV/firefox-53.0.2+build1/js/src/vm/Interpreter.cpp:524
#8  0xb3eea6b0 in js::Wrapper::call (
this=0xb5e1f11c , cx=0xad0c7000, 
---Type  to continue, or q  to quit---q
Quit
(gdb) quit
A debugging session is active.

Inferior 1 

Re: [lubuntu-users] Using Pentium 3 Machines on Lubuntu--posting from "the top"--ode to PPC

[Brendan || Lyn Perrine]

On Sun, 14 May 2017 20:14:04 +0200
Ralf Mardorf  wrote:

> On Sun, 14 May 2017 11:03:23 -0600, Aere Greenway wrote:
> >I do lament the coming demise of all 32-bit machines, but I will move 
> >on, when it is necessary to do so.
> 
> A while ago I replaced my around ten years old 64 bit dual-core
> mobo/CPU with a newer elCheapo 64 bit dual-core mobo/CPU. It doesn't
> cost much, but it gained a lot. That 32 bit architecture is dropped by
> all major distros makes sense. It's not comparable to "get a new iPad
> each 5 years or you don't get an update anymore". My around 10 years
> old 64 bit system was really outdated and a few things already would
> have need a replacement, at least the fans and the power supply. IMO
> ethically it is ok to replace a machine after around 10 years.
> Supporting 32 bit architecture doesn't make much sense, even with
> keeping the Third World in mind, since we've got 64 bit architecture
> for longer than 10 years. If you need to repair, resp. replace something
> of a 64 bit machine, getting a new 64 bit machine already is less
> expensive, let alone a 32 bit machine, even if we are using as much as
> possible from trash. Keep in mind that all major distros still compile
> 64 bit architecture for SSE2, while proprietary software for Linux a
> long time ago required more than just SSE2. IOW distros still compile
> for ancient 64 bit architecture. You should expect that soon or later
> even support for some oldish 64 bit machines gets dropped.
> 
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Well personally I do not have my pentium IV desktops hooked up at all anymore 
they just seem slow power hungry and loud when I have better hardware even 
though I did get into lubuntu so I could have it both on my core 2 duo laptop 
and my pentium IV desktop. Honestly I find it a bit wierd that the laptop I am 
typing this email on now will be turning 8 years old in a few years. Well thing 
is I prefer this laptop to a three year old cheap one do to changes in how the 
laptop cases and thickness were made. Granted this thing is heavy but I can 
only unscrew 4 screws to upgrade the hard drive to an ssd which I did. I have 
something similar for ram and wireless.
 I have 4 usb 2.0 ports ethernet vga and hdmi outputs dvd drive and a card 
reader while new laptops do not have this many ports on them. My mom bought a 
cheap hp laptop without consulting me and I still prefer this one mainly with 
the good ssd I have in it. I really doubt this will struggle that much in just 
over two years it seems like. I also like the scissor switch keyboard more than 
the chiclet one built into newer laptops.  

 Although I know pentium IV( prescott) to core 2 was a huge jump on the intel 
side I also have 4 GB of ram in this laptop. It seems to do everything but 
gaming and running virtual machines well. 
-- 
Brendan || Lyn Perrine 

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Re: [lubuntu-users] Using Pentium 3 Machines on Lubuntu--posting from "the top"--ode to PPC

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Sun, 14 May 2017 11:03:23 -0600, Aere Greenway wrote:
>I do lament the coming demise of all 32-bit machines, but I will move 
>on, when it is necessary to do so.

A while ago I replaced my around ten years old 64 bit dual-core
mobo/CPU with a newer elCheapo 64 bit dual-core mobo/CPU. It doesn't
cost much, but it gained a lot. That 32 bit architecture is dropped by
all major distros makes sense. It's not comparable to "get a new iPad
each 5 years or you don't get an update anymore". My around 10 years
old 64 bit system was really outdated and a few things already would
have need a replacement, at least the fans and the power supply. IMO
ethically it is ok to replace a machine after around 10 years.
Supporting 32 bit architecture doesn't make much sense, even with
keeping the Third World in mind, since we've got 64 bit architecture
for longer than 10 years. If you need to repair, resp. replace something
of a 64 bit machine, getting a new 64 bit machine already is less
expensive, let alone a 32 bit machine, even if we are using as much as
possible from trash. Keep in mind that all major distros still compile
64 bit architecture for SSE2, while proprietary software for Linux a
long time ago required more than just SSE2. IOW distros still compile
for ancient 64 bit architecture. You should expect that soon or later
even support for some oldish 64 bit machines gets dropped.

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Re: [lubuntu-users] Using Pentium 3 Machines on Lubuntu--posting from "the top"--ode to PPC

[Aere Greenway]

On 05/14/2017 10:46 AM, Fritz Hudnut wrote:

top posting, for clarity and relaxation . . . .

I am reminded of the trials and tribulations of "PPC" by this thread, 
we tried to keep what was/is functioning hardware viable by using 
software that was "lighter" and "lighter" . . . the problem with 
"technology" is that it's "like a shark, it has to move 'forward' or 
die . . ." . . . and hardware generally isn't able to "move forward" 
beyond a certain dollar driven point, i.e., it's cheaper to buy new 
than to keep upgrading the "old."


And, so people and the devs, move on to other things.  Just like the 
motorola cpu driving PPC units, "pentium 3" is now or soon to be, "not 
supported" by the software in all likelihood, even Lu probably isn't 
considering that cpu as being "viable" . . . and, also as I discovered 
watching two or three of my PPC machines slowly drop out of linux 
support due to lack of cpu speed and RAM to meet the minimum specs . . 
. browsers and/or the internet seem to "need" at least 2 GB of RAM to 
do all the many tasks that the web demands . . . .  My iBook G4 
running Lu 16.04 PPC with 933MHz cpu and 612 MB RAM is just 
"befuddled" by trying to get around in any available browser--if all I 
wanted to do was word processing it would be fine.  If, while doing 
such writing, I would want to "check my email" using gmail via 
browser, that becomes a study in slo-mo frustration.


On the other hand, the recently deceased PowerMac with an upgraded cpu 
and maxed out at 2GB RAM . . . could do a reasonable job as doing 
basic online tasks--but, the hardware finally fizzled . . . which 
seems to be the other problem with pushing old hardware . . . it 
breaks at some point.


I'd say that obviously you are enjoying keeping your "old" hardware 
going by finding ways to do what newer tech does with ease . . . at 
some point either Lu will "drop" support or drivers for Pentium3, or 
the 512MB RAM will just not have the juice to do anything . . . and, 
the machines will just have one function--your music endeavors . . . 
until the "end of its days" and the mobo wheezes it's last sound byte 
. . . .  : - 0


Sayonara PPC, we hardly knew ye . . . .

F
On Sun, May 14, 2017 at 5:00 AM, 
> wrote:


Using Pentium 3 Machines on Lubuntu




Fritz:

Thank you for your well written and interesting response.

I sympathize with your viewpoint.

In writing my original e-mail of the stream, I wasn't asking that 
Pentium 3 machines again be fully supported, though I do (as you) lament 
their demise.


I was just glad to report how I had come up with a rather different way 
of making it work for me, and that it did work as a music workstation.


I do lament the coming demise of all 32-bit machines, but I will move 
on, when it is necessary to do so.


I will be putting out (sometime this year) a KeyMusician Newsletter 
article an rescuing older machines, using them as musical instruments.


--
Sincerely,
Aere

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[lubuntu-users] Using Pentium 3 Machines on Lubuntu--posting from "the top"--ode to PPC

[Fritz Hudnut]

top posting, for clarity and relaxation . . . .

I am reminded of the trials and tribulations of "PPC" by this thread, we
tried to keep what was/is functioning hardware viable by using software
that was "lighter" and "lighter" . . . the problem with "technology" is
that it's "like a shark, it has to move 'forward' or die . . ." . . . and
hardware generally isn't able to "move forward" beyond a certain dollar
driven point, i.e., it's cheaper to buy new than to keep upgrading the
"old."

And, so people and the devs, move on to other things.  Just like the
motorola cpu driving PPC units, "pentium 3" is now or soon to be, "not
supported" by the software in all likelihood, even Lu probably isn't
considering that cpu as being "viable" . . . and, also as I discovered
watching two or three of my PPC machines slowly drop out of linux support
due to lack of cpu speed and RAM to meet the minimum specs . . . browsers
and/or the internet seem to "need" at least 2 GB of RAM to do all the many
tasks that the web demands . . . .  My iBook G4 running Lu 16.04 PPC with
933MHz cpu and 612 MB RAM is just "befuddled" by trying to get around in
any available browser--if all I wanted to do was word processing it would
be fine.  If, while doing such writing, I would want to "check my email"
using gmail via browser, that becomes a study in slo-mo frustration.

On the other hand, the recently deceased PowerMac with an upgraded cpu and
maxed out at 2GB RAM . . . could do a reasonable job as doing basic online
tasks--but, the hardware finally fizzled . . . which seems to be the other
problem with pushing old hardware . . . it breaks at some point.

I'd say that obviously you are enjoying keeping your "old" hardware going
by finding ways to do what newer tech does with ease . . . at some point
either Lu will "drop" support or drivers for Pentium3, or the 512MB RAM
will just not have the juice to do anything . . . and, the machines will
just have one function--your music endeavors . . . until the "end of its
days" and the mobo wheezes it's last sound byte . . . .  : - 0

Sayonara PPC, we hardly knew ye . . . .

F
On Sun, May 14, 2017 at 5:00 AM, 
wrote:

> Using Pentium 3 Machines on Lubuntu
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