Re: [lubuntu-users] [lubuntu-devel] cups not built-in ?

[scrooyahoo]

Hi Jan,

On 2016-08-13 00:28, Jan Holtman wrote:

I see your discussion. In my opinion the most important thing is that a
user gets a complete working system.


What do you consider 'complete'
A complete base system without specific user applications
or
A complete system with word processing, image manipulation, media player 
and other stuff they would never even use on a low spec machine?


To me it would make a lot of sense to have a fully working base system, 
and leave it up to the end user what application he or she wants to run 
on it.





All of these machines probably had at least a combo drive (read DVD, 
write

CD). More than likely if you had such an old drive in the computer it
already died.


Thats also a good point, but some 'dead' DVD drives still manage to load 
CD-ROM without issues.
Or at least the NEC drives in HP machines manage to do so. (or is that a 
firmware bug?)

Anyhow, they CAN read CD-ROMS but can NOT read DVD's anylonger.
I just happen to have one of those sitting next to me right now...



Also

For the ones with access to Canonicals data:
Are there any available stats of how many people have Lubuntu installed, 
what version and what type of hardware.
That could also be a usefull guideline to estimate a average and a 
minimal spec of machine that is in actual use by actual people. ...Who 
actually have Lubuntu up and running.


This may be a better guideline then all of our guess work combined.

We should not dwell on too old hard ware too long, but if there is a 
userbase out there then it would be a shame if we leave them hanging. 
They then will install another OS, and might never come back to Lubuntu?






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Re: [lubuntu-users] [lubuntu-devel] cups not built-in ?

[Aere Greenway]

On 08/12/2016 04:28 PM, Jan Holtman wrote:
I see your discussion. In my opinion the most important thing is that 
a user gets a complete working system.
Probably the bottom level for Lubuntu is a P4 or a Pentium M with 
512MB ram 30 or 40 GB hard-disk.

Jan:

I have a perfectly usable Pentium 3 system, with 512 megabytes RAM, and 
a speed of 930 (some 900-number) megahertz.  I could put a DVD drive in 
that one, if needed.  It boots from USB using Plop.


I have a MacBook (32-bit), running Mac OS X, with a Lubuntu partition.  
It only has a CD drive, but I can get it to boot from USB.


A machine that is too slow to bother with for one person, can be just 
fine for another.  It depends on what you use it for.


The people using such machines should decide if they want to keep using 
them.


I strongly resist the idea of someone else declaring (based on their own 
usage patterns) that other peoples machines should no longer be supported.


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Sincerely,
Aere


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Re: [lubuntu-users] [lubuntu-devel] cups not built-in ?

[Jan Holtman]

I see your discussion. In my opinion the most important thing is that a
user gets a complete working system.
Probably the bottom level for Lubuntu is a P4 or a Pentium M with 512MB ram
30 or 40 GB hard-disk.
To get decent performance out of Lubuntu, unless you use it for a
standalone Mp3 player or another simple task you need at least 1GB of ram,
especially for browsing the Internet.
All of these machines probably had at least a combo drive (read DVD, write
CD). More than likely if you had such an old drive in the computer it
already died.
In my experience in hardware optical drives, electrolytic capacitors and
fans are often the first parts that give up.
Machines with only a CD drive are from the P3 era and those machines are
not that suitable in any case.

I think the most important is a good working complete system that is usable
on machines with bottom level P4 or Pentium M and up. PAE and Non PAE
support.
Most important is a good working system.
By the way I still don't understand that yo have to manually set the
swappability from 60 to 10 or 5.
Without doing that if you have low ram your machine becomes really sluggish
when browsing the Internet for example.

My opinion: Performance and a good working system are more important than
cramming and spend a lot of time in trying to cram Lubuntu on a CD.
If the CD only era is gone, well then let it be, performance is the most
important thing.

Also must other distributions are all exceeding 1GB, including LXLE which
is also meant for older PC's

Met vriendelijke groet / Best regards,

Jan Holtman

oulik@gmail.com <1%3aoulik@gmail.com>

<2%3ajan.holt...@live.com>

On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 8:42 PM, Nio Wiklund  wrote:

> [bottom posting]
>
> Den 2016-08-12 kl. 09:33, skrev Narcis Garcia:
>
>> The lightest variant of Ubuntu, Lubuntu, should fit on a traditional
>> CD-ROM and should be installable without internet access. This is the
>> typical scenario (small computer, small internet) where someone chooses
>> Lubuntu.
>>
>> I believe all basic variants of Lubuntu should fit on a 700MB CD-ROM:
>> i386-desktop*
>> powerpc-desktop*
>> i386-alternate
>> powerpc-alternate
>>
>> - Why Mozilla software is kept instead of CUPS?? What about Midori
>> browser or others? Firefox is 45MiB compressed, Midori 11MiB, full CUPS
>> 10MiB.
>> - If someone needs Sylpheed, has internet access, then can install it
>> after; same with Pidgin and Transmission.
>> - Abiword can be a good selection; Gnumeric is not too esential as the
>> word processor is.
>> - How many partition managers are needed? GParted + gnomedisks ?
>> - How many package managers are needed? Synaptic + softwarecenter ?
>> - How many audio players are needed? Audacious + gnomemplayer ?
>> - Why there are 73MiB (compressed) dedicated to fonts-noto-cjk ? And
>> 8MiB to fonts-nanum ?
>> - 14MiB (compressed) dedicated to software-center metadata
>> (app-install-data) ?
>> - 9MiB for linux-headers ? Need to recompile kernel/modules offline?
>> - About gnome-icon-theme (9MiB), I believe that it should be split in
>> gnome-icon-theme-minimal and gnome-icon-theme-full; then select only the
>> minimal for ISO media.
>>
>>
>> (*) Live sessions are essential to check if the OS works, before
>> installing over a previous OS in the computer.
>>
>>
>>
>> El 11/08/16 a les 20:13, Ian Bruntlett ha escrit:
>>
>>> Hi there,
>>>
>>> On 11 August 2016 at 19:00, Aere Greenway >> > wrote:
>>>
>>> On 08/11/2016 11:49 AM, Narcis Garcia wrote:
>>>
>>> I believe that the problem is on software selection to build
>>> live/install media, and not on any software package.
>>> If live/install media hasn't CUPS, seems to be caused by a
>>> discard decision.
>>>
>>> What I don't understand is, if this decision is for CD space
>>> reasons,
>>> why Lubuntu ISOs are still over 700MB.
>>>
>>> I would be very surprised if cups were intentionally discarded for
>>> space reasons.
>>>
>>> The ability to print is a necessity for any computer you do actual
>>> work with (in my opinion).
>>>
>>> If things are that desperate space-wise, the goal of fitting it on a
>>> CD should be abandoned, and defeat admitted.
>>>
>>>
>>> It currently doesn't fit on a CD. To install one of the Ubuntus, go to
>>> http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/netboot/ and download the relevant iso. From
>>> what I see there, 32-bit Ubuntus can be installed by putting a 48M iso
>>> onto CD-R and choosing options - e.g. Ubuntu or Lubuntu packages - at
>>> install time. I've been using a NetBoot CD-R for some of my 32-bit
>>> installs.
>>>
>>> HTH,
>>>
>>>
>>> Ian
>>>
>>> --
>>> -- ACCU - Professionalism in programming - http://www.accu.org
>>> -- My writing - https://sites.google.com/site/ianbruntlett/
>>> -- Free Software page -
>>> https://sites.google.com/site/ianbruntlett/home/free-software
>>>
>>>
>>
> Hi all 

Re: [lubuntu-users] [lubuntu-devel] cups not built-in ?

[Ian Bruntlett]

Hi Andre,

On 12 August 2016 at 21:30, Andre Campos Rodovalho <
andre.rodova...@gmail.com> wrote:

> If a computer can't boot DVD or USB (or does not worth to upgrade). How
> useful is this computer?
>
> People can actually work with a computer on this conditions? This
> discussion is also about focus...
>
> IMHO people who aim to install Linux on ancient machines must apply all
> efforts to accomplish the mission. There is an alternate installation CD.
> The additional time should be counted as fun time...
>

I have a 32 bit laptop in Contact. I use it for internet access, emacs,
bash and Ruby. It isn't the fastest machine in the world but it is
invaluable for me to try things out as I learn the Ruby programming
language.

HTH,


Ian

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Re: [lubuntu-users] [lubuntu-devel] cups not built-in ?

[Andre Campos Rodovalho]

If a computer can't boot DVD or USB (or does not worth to upgrade). How
useful is this computer?

People can actually work with a computer on this conditions? This
discussion is also about focus...

IMHO people who aim to install Linux on ancient machines must apply all
efforts to accomplish the mission. There is an alternate installation CD.
The additional time should be counted as fun time...


2016-08-12 16:20 GMT-03:00 Ian Bruntlett :

> Hi All,
>
> On 12 August 2016 at 19:42, Nio Wiklund  wrote:
>
>> I think it is time to give up, and let Lubuntu grow beyond the CD size,
>> and to take the opportunity to improve the selection of program packages.
>>
>
> As long as Netboot is supported (http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/netboot/) it
> will still be possible to install Lubuntu from CD-R. The only disadvantage
> of exceeding the capacity of a CD-R is that the Lubuntu Live disc will have
> to be DVD rather than CD.
>
> BW,
>
>
> Ian
>
> --
> -- ACCU - Professionalism in programming - http://www.accu.org
> -- My writing - https://sites.google.com/site/ianbruntlett/
> -- Free Software page - https://sites.google.com/site/
> ianbruntlett/home/free-software
>
>
> --
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> mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
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>
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Re: [lubuntu-users] [lubuntu-devel] cups not built-in ?

[Ian Bruntlett]

Hi All,

On 12 August 2016 at 19:42, Nio Wiklund  wrote:

> I think it is time to give up, and let Lubuntu grow beyond the CD size,
> and to take the opportunity to improve the selection of program packages.
>

As long as Netboot is supported (http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/netboot/) it
will still be possible to install Lubuntu from CD-R. The only disadvantage
of exceeding the capacity of a CD-R is that the Lubuntu Live disc will have
to be DVD rather than CD.

BW,


Ian

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