Re: [lubuntu-users] contributions (was: 19.4 installer has 8gig minimum disk requirement)
On Mon, 20 May 2019 at 17:54, Mark F wrote: > > Gmail is interesting because when I hit "reply" it puts two blank lines above > the quoted text -- almost seducing the respondent to type above. Adult life is all about learning not to accept every temptation life throws at you. Gmail is a clever tool, because it allows actual competent email users to use it properly, but also supports the clueless methods of those who were damaged by using Microsoft Outlook and other broken corporate time-wasting engines. > But, you're also right. Of all the things in the world to worry about and > control... how people participate in conversations seems like it would be a > tiring obsession. And *this* is the core of the problem. Top-posters don't expend the effort to quote properly, and they fail to do so because they have not expended the small amount of cognitive effort to learn how to use this wonderfully powerful tool correctly. So they do what is quickest, and to hell with everyone else, to hell with threading, to hell with group discussions, to hell with 2 human generations' worth of R into electronic communications. Ignore all that. Type at the top. I'm too busy to learn to drive, I just need to get to work. And then they call those of us who know how to drive "tiresome" and "obsessive" and complain that we keep going on about rules and style. Web fora are for those who have not learned to use email properly. I do not spend my time attempting to communicate by placing alphabet blocks in stacks that spell out my sentences, because I am not 2 years old. And no, I do not really want to take the time to stack blocks again just so I can talk with others who *only* know stacking alphabet blocks and never learned to write. Because, and I am sorry if this is a shocking or offensive statement, but I find that people who never learned to write don't usually have anything very interesting to say. -- Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven UK: +44 7939-087884 - ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053 -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
Re: [lubuntu-users] contributions (was: 19.4 installer has 8gig minimum disk requirement)
On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 7:57 AM Liam Proven wrote: > Since you have not even got the basic manners to bottom-post yourself > -- and yes Gmail does it fine; Gmail is interesting because when I hit "reply" it puts two blank lines above the quoted text -- almost seducing the respondent to type above. > this post itself is proof -- you even > mock it, then I not only do not feel welcomed, I feel that I am told I > am not welcome. > Sorry, man. I was just questioning Raif's assertion that a forum makes it impossible to top post. I gave my example for why I didn't see that being true. It wasn't meant to mock. But, you're also right. Of all the things in the world to worry about and control... how people participate in conversations seems like it would be a tiring obsession. Neither email nor forums will enforce a EDI-like data interchange structure. Leading by example seems more productive than being the posting cop. (Especially when gmail *invites* top posting.). To each their own. My reply to Raif was more about the assertion that forums prevent top posting. Mark -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
Re: [lubuntu-users] contributions (was: 19.4 installer has 8gig minimum disk requirement)
On Mon, 20 May 2019 at 06:37, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > On Sun, 19 May 2019 13:44:21 -0700, Mark F wrote: > >I like it. I just replied to someone (I top posted too! Maybe that > >will get Liam to join. wink). > > IIRC as one drawback of forums Liam mentioned markup language. If you > want to post code, one forum requires > > ~~~ > some code > ~~~ > > and another > > [code] > some code > [/code] This is one of the many things I hate about them. There are standards for this stuff, dammit -- the minimal safe subset of HTML used by Livejournal etc., or Markdown, or AsciiDoc/RST, or OrgMode or whatever. Far too many standards, but every horrid broken web forum re-invents its own, and its own login criteria, and its own editor, and its own stupid sig/ID line system (coffee beans or whatever inane nonsense), and its own broken notifications system. Email has been a working viable comms medium for 40+ years. It has rules, rich clients for every platform going, and works superbly. And there was Usenet, which for 30y has provided a worldwide federated discussion system, similarly totally multiplatform and with rich clients. Then clueless newbies who can't even learn to bottom post came along and ruined both, and now there are a thousand replacements which are all junk. -- Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven UK: +44 7939-087884 - ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053 -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
Re: [lubuntu-users] contributions (was: 19.4 installer has 8gig minimum disk requirement)
Not to pull your chain. But... (I'm pulling your chain now...) how do you see forums being impossible to top post? How would a forum prevent me from doing what I'm doing in this reply to you? I.e., if the mailing list bridge were active, wouldn't this email (a top post) convert into a forum post exactly as it appears here? Couldn't I create the same post via the forum, and it would convert into an email like this? The forum needs you guys! :) Mark On Sun, May 19, 2019 at 9:37 PM Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Sun, 19 May 2019 13:44:21 -0700, Mark F wrote: > >I like it. I just replied to someone (I top posted too! Maybe that > >will get Liam to join. wink). > > The only advantage of a forum seems to be, that it is impossible to post > on top. > > -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
Re: [lubuntu-users] contributions (was: 19.4 installer has 8gig minimum disk requirement)
On Sun, May 19, 2019 at 9:37 PM Ralf Mardorf wrote: > What I hate very much are forums with (intended) broken email > notification and a system of rewards. > I think "likes" can help keep the noise down. Instead of one-liner "thanks!" replies, or someone posting month later "I found your post and it helped me," they can just "like" the post as a way of showing appreciation. For example, I posted my touchpad enable/disable script. I was kind of matter-of-fact about it. Walter replied asking the OP if they understood it, needed more help. I realized I should have offered more assistance/explanation. So, I liked Walter's post. If I didn't have the "like" button, I would have had to reply with a one-liner (that all the mailing-list recipients would have had to divert 3 seconds of their day to process). So, without knowing what you dislike about it, there are positives. Mark -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
Re: [lubuntu-users] contributions (was: 19.4 installer has 8gig minimum disk requirement)
On Sun, May 05, 2019 at 09:10:58AM -0700, Mark F wrote: > Do you think a forum environment might engender more participation, > collaboration, passion, interest, etc? I prefer mailing lists, but if I'm excited about something, I participate in whatever communication option it has available. Case in point: LXQt has a forum. That said, we now have a forum, so if you want to prove how useful it is, go use it! :) https://discourse.lubuntu.me/ -- @wxl | polka.bike C563 CAC5 8BE1 2F22 A49D 68F6 8B57 A48B C4F2 051A -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
Re: [lubuntu-users] contributions (was: 19.4 installer has 8gig minimum disk requirement)
On Thu, 02 May 2019 14:19:42 -0700, Walter Lapchynski wrote: >https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pcmanfm/+bug/1782984 Hi Walter, when running Polyphone from command line this issue happens, too, _but_ the app neither does crash nor freeze, it continues to work without a noticeable issue. Homepage: https://www.polyphone-soundfonts.com/en/ Download page, including the source code: https://www.polyphone-soundfonts.com/en/download Link to the Ubuntu Bionic Beaver amd64 package: https://www.polyphone-soundfonts.com/en/download/file/620-polyphone-2-0-1-ubuntu18-04-amd64-deb/latest/download?278e23df6085803871a9b87940862c23=1=aHR0cHMlM0ElMkYlMkZ3d3cucG9seXBob25lLXNvdW5kZm9udHMuY29tJTJGZW4lMkZkb3dubG9hZA== I run it on Arch Linux, using the Arch community package: https://www.archlinux.org/packages/community/x86_64/polyphone/ To reproduce the issue create a free account(https://www.polyphone-soundfonts.com/en/component/payplans/plan/subscribe) just download a few sf.2 soundfonts some with a web browser and other with the app's included browser, load them and convert them to sfz. Also take a look at the features/tabs without using them. Soon or later it should happen and it seems to provide a core dump, _while it still continues to work without failure_. I've got no time for further investigations, since I need to get audio work done. I just want to inform about this. Regards, Ralf -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
Re: [lubuntu-users] contributions (was: 19.4 installer has 8gig minimum disk requirement)
On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 3:20 AM Liam Proven wrote: > > They don't have curb appeal? > > I don't know what "curb appeal" means. > Curb appeal in the sense of people driving by and stopping to participate. Compared to this mailing list, those forums have *huge* participation. (HUGE!). The only thing I can ascribe that to is that it's a forum, not a mailing list. I agree that forums feel clumsy, inefficient for daily participation in topics. I have seen a forum which was specifically designed to be more like a mailing list. (You could subscribe to the forum and receive all posts as emails. Reply via email. Unsubscribe from topics via email. It was like a forum front-end to a mailing list. The mailing list could be discovered as a forum, browsed as a forum, used like a forum. But, if someone wanted to treat it as a mailing list, they could do that.). If there were any interest in this I could try to find that again. If I recall, it was written in Perl. (That stood out to me.). Maybe my observation about this mailing list isn't fair because there is a Ubuntu forum where most(?) Lubuntu users go for help? It's more easily discovered; more familiar to use (for the average person). If that forum didn't exist, maybe this mailing list would have more participation. But, that also proves my point. People seem to gravitate to a forum. The way the Lubuntu community is here (not on the forum where people seem to go first) could be missed opportunities for contact with Lubuntu users. Camaraderie, recruitment of passers by to help with things. It's all contagious. Someone gets helped, they want to help. The way it is now, it's like two worlds that never meet. (IMO). To me, as I started visiting other distros (which exist primarily on forums), the difference seemed obvious. But, maybe I'm assuming too much about drive-by visitors becoming engaged. It just seems like, if people aren't even coming through the front door, you can't even have the conversation (inspiring Lubuntu users to help, etc.). Mark -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
Re: [lubuntu-users] contributions (was: 19.4 installer has 8gig minimum disk requirement)
On Sun, 5 May 2019 at 18:11, Mark F wrote: > > Do you think a forum environment might engender more participation, > collaboration, passion, interest, etc? I don't know, but I can tell you that I won't participate. I loathe web fora with a passion. Aside from the universally terrible UI, the lack of threading, the broken quoting, the pointless formatting, the vast signatures, the multiple different markup formats, and all the other evils of the medium, any comms system which requires me to go to umpteen different websites to see what's new via umpteen different UIs is one I won't use. I participate in dozens of communities around the internet via my email client, with one UI, one posting format, one notifications system, in one place via one tool. > They don't have curb appeal? I don't know what "curb appeal" means. If anyone has a way to combine mailing lists with web fora, then I would consider it. -- Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven UK: +44 7939-087884 - ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053 -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
Re: [lubuntu-users] contributions (was: 19.4 installer has 8gig minimum disk requirement)
On Fri, May 3, 2019 at 9:06 PM Walter Lapchynski wrote: > it would be certainly easier if we had more help… > Most of what the Lubuntu Team is > doing is providing support, creating documentation, reporting and > triaging bugs, testing images and fixes, creating graphics, and > packaging. Plus, we're happy to provide support for those that want to > learn more. That said, there's a place for *everyone*. > Do you think a forum environment might engender more participation, collaboration, passion, interest, etc? I've been hanging out on the Mint, Peppermint and MX Linux forums. The amount of activity there is vastly greater than here. I don't know if that translates into the productive things you mention. But, there seems to be a vastly greater level of passion and participation. I have to believe it's the collaboration platform making the difference(?). Mailing lists are easier than visiting forums to look for replies. (It seems like some forums could use rss feeds to monitor like an email inbox?). But, if they're a barrier to attracting people... maybe a forum would be better? Ubuntu has a support forum. It gets a lot of participation too. Compared to this mailing list, it seems like it must be the nature of mailing lists? They don't have curb appeal? -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
Re: [lubuntu-users] contributions (was: 19.4 installer has 8gig minimum disk requirement)
On Fri, 3 May 2019 21:05:42 -0700, Walter Lapchynski wrote: >On Fri, May 03, 2019 at 06:48:13AM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: >> That xcb multi-threaded client crab is no issue at all for my Ubuntu >> 16.04 install, but a PITA for my Arch Linux install. Since I never >> used pcmanfm, it's Claws that suffers from this issue on my Arch >> install. > >Are there any related bug reports on the Arch side or any discussion >you've had with Arch support on this? No, but there was a discussion on the Claws mailing list and a user reported the bug: https://www.thewildbeast.co.uk/claws-mail/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=4203 -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
Re: [lubuntu-users] contributions (was: 19.4 installer has 8gig minimum disk requirement)
may I ask something out of this topic? about xmr-stak? On Walter Lapchynski , May 4, 2019 11:06 AM wrote:On Fri, May 03, 2019 at 06:48:13AM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > That xcb multi-threaded client crab is no issue at all for my Ubuntu > 16.04 install, but a PITA for my Arch Linux install. Since I never used > pcmanfm, it's Claws that suffers from this issue on my Arch install. Are there any related bug reports on the Arch side or any discussion you've had with Arch support on this? > I'm not a coder. I was mainly an Assembly coder decades ago for > non-Linux machines. I suspect that I will be less helpful, than you hope > I could be. We don't really need coders, per se. Most of what the Lubuntu Team is doing is providing support, creating documentation, reporting and triaging bugs, testing images and fixes, creating graphics, and packaging. Plus, we're happy to provide support for those that want to learn more. That said, there's a place for *everyone*. -- @wxl | polka.bike C563 CAC5 8BE1 2F22 A49D 68F6 8B57 A48B C4F2 051A -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
Re: [lubuntu-users] contributions (was: 19.4 installer has 8gig minimum disk requirement)
On Fri, May 03, 2019 at 06:48:13AM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > That xcb multi-threaded client crab is no issue at all for my Ubuntu > 16.04 install, but a PITA for my Arch Linux install. Since I never used > pcmanfm, it's Claws that suffers from this issue on my Arch install. Are there any related bug reports on the Arch side or any discussion you've had with Arch support on this? > I'm not a coder. I was mainly an Assembly coder decades ago for > non-Linux machines. I suspect that I will be less helpful, than you hope > I could be. We don't really need coders, per se. Most of what the Lubuntu Team is doing is providing support, creating documentation, reporting and triaging bugs, testing images and fixes, creating graphics, and packaging. Plus, we're happy to provide support for those that want to learn more. That said, there's a place for *everyone*. -- @wxl | polka.bike C563 CAC5 8BE1 2F22 A49D 68F6 8B57 A48B C4F2 051A -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
Re: [lubuntu-users] contributions (was: 19.4 installer has 8gig minimum disk requirement)
On Thu, 2019-05-02 at 14:19 -0700, Walter Lapchynski wrote: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pcmanfm/+bug/1782984 On Arch and Ubuntu 16.04 I'm using SpaceFM, resp. most of the times no file manager at all. On Arch Linux I migrated from the SpaceFM GTK2 to the GTK3 version. I prefer the terminal, usually roxterm over a file manager. Roxterm is available by a package for 16.04, but not for 18.04, grr. It was temporarily not maintained by upstream, due to GTK annoyances. I consider to do a release upgrade from 16.04 to 18.04 of my openbox Ubuntu install and after that to install https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic-updates/lubuntu-desktop. That xcb multi-threaded client crab is no issue at all for my Ubuntu 16.04 install, but a PITA for my Arch Linux install. Since I never used pcmanfm, it's Claws that suffers from this issue on my Arch install. I'm not a coder. I was mainly an Assembly coder decades ago for non-Linux machines. I suspect that I will be less helpful, than you hope I could be. -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
Re: [lubuntu-users] contributions (was: 19.4 installer has 8gig minimum disk requirement)
On 2019-05-02 20:46, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > n Thu, 02 May 2019 13:04:08 -0700, Walter Lapchynski wrote: >>On 2019-05-02 20:01, Ralf Mardorf wrote: >>> I've got deep respect regarding your effort >> it would be certainly easier if we had >>more help… so if you're looking for something to do, Ralf… ☺ > I tend to get in contact with upstream Given your broad use of different distros, I'd say that is a reasonable way to approach things. > Should I install a > LTS or the latest release to be a little bit helpful to you? I would suggest the latest. The latest LTS, 18.04, is supported by the Lubuntu Team until 2021, which is not very long. At that point, we will have no LXDE version any longer. As of 18.10, we made the switch to LXQt and now have two releases under our belt. That said, there are still some lingering bugs in LXDE that I would love to see fixed. There is [one][1] in particular that I find incredibly frustrating. If you could figure that out, more power to you BTW, lubuntu-de...@lists.ubuntu.com is the development mailing list which is probably a more appropriate avenue than this one to discuss development, bugs, and contribution in general. [1]: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pcmanfm/+bug/1782984 -- @wxl | polka.bike C563 CAC5 8BE1 2F22 A49D 68F6 8B57 A48B C4F2 051A -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
