Re: [lubuntu-users] cups not built-in ?

[scrooyahoo]

No body remembers that Lubuntu was based on the old Ubuntu Lite 
(u-lite)

and its purposes?
http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=ulite


It's always good to learn a bit of history!
Maybe it is because LXDE runs so good on newer hardware that there is a 
need to cover both in a different way?


One absolute minimal Live CD, and one for general use?

Is Lubuntus goal still the same? From the minimal system requirements 
stated on the wiki i think yes.
And then i ask myself again the same question again, should there be an 
option to better cover both use cases?


One for real old hardware, and one for more modern hardware.


Or maybe a even more minimal approach and leave it all to the end user 
what additional applications to run.


Last night i had a look at the QNX Demo disk. (15 years ago i have 
worked with QNX, and i remembered this awesome floppy)
It runs an entire graphical desktop + webbrowser and some tools from a 
1.44MB floppy.

download it here:
https://winworldpc.com/product/qnx/144mb-demo

Or see someone else play with it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_VlI6IBEJ0  (turn the volume down a bit 
before you load this)


I know that all the hardware support in the kernel needs 100+ MB, still 
700MB seems a bit much after seeing what can be done with 1.44MB. 
Eventhough that floppy is 15 years old.  It's scares me a bit if 15 
years from mow we would use 400times more space then what we do today. 
Then we would need 280GB to make a LiveCD!

I mean does anybody realise how insanely big 700MB actually is?. :-)








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Re: [lubuntu-users] cups not built-in ?

[Jörn Schönyan]

People from Asia use Lubuntu, too - Kylin may be too heavy for them. If 1 or 2 
billion people aren't able to use a distribution, it is pointless. 

But nearly every computer on the world which is capable to run Lubuntu can boot 
from DVD or USB. Corner cases use Plop. So, the size limit isn't helpful at 
all. 

Best regards, Jörn 

Am 13. August 2016 10:02:54 MESZ, schrieb Narcis Garcia :
>I believed that Lubuntu can run with RAM 256~384MiB
>Many old computers (not super old) don't boot USB media. Some because
>BIOS hasn't the feature, and some because presented boot option doesn't
>work.
>Is Plop included in ISO image as SmartBootMedia* is?
>
>I believe an old computer is recoverable if it can be used as a
>typewriter, printing, managing USB volumes to save documents, and
>some networking {shared folders, shared printers, wikipedia browsing,
>etc.}. If it's easy to use and compatible with hardware
>upgrades... better then.
>
>About heavy packages for east asiatic fonts, there is a Kylin project
>more adequate for them. It's like the impossibility to include full
>spanish desktop in a live session --> it will be installed when
>installing to hard disk with internet access.
>
>I cannot mind that a simple and usable operating system doesn't fit in
>700MiB... and compressed... and expandable with package manager.
>
>No body remembers that Lubuntu was based on the old Ubuntu Lite
>(u-lite)
>and its purposes?
>http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=ulite
>
>
>(*) Lacks of sbminst
>
>
>El 12/08/16 a les 20:42, Nio Wiklund ha escrit:
>> [bottom posting]
>> 
>> Den 2016-08-12 kl. 09:33, skrev Narcis Garcia:
>>> The lightest variant of Ubuntu, Lubuntu, should fit on a traditional
>>> CD-ROM and should be installable without internet access. This is
>the
>>> typical scenario (small computer, small internet) where someone
>chooses
>>> Lubuntu.
>>>
>>> I believe all basic variants of Lubuntu should fit on a 700MB
>CD-ROM:
>>> i386-desktop*
>>> powerpc-desktop*
>>> i386-alternate
>>> powerpc-alternate
>>>
>>> - Why Mozilla software is kept instead of CUPS?? What about Midori
>>> browser or others? Firefox is 45MiB compressed, Midori 11MiB, full
>CUPS
>>> 10MiB.
>>> - If someone needs Sylpheed, has internet access, then can install
>it
>>> after; same with Pidgin and Transmission.
>>> - Abiword can be a good selection; Gnumeric is not too esential as
>the
>>> word processor is.
>>> - How many partition managers are needed? GParted + gnomedisks ?
>>> - How many package managers are needed? Synaptic + softwarecenter ?
>>> - How many audio players are needed? Audacious + gnomemplayer ?
>>> - Why there are 73MiB (compressed) dedicated to fonts-noto-cjk ? And
>>> 8MiB to fonts-nanum ?
>>> - 14MiB (compressed) dedicated to software-center metadata
>>> (app-install-data) ?
>>> - 9MiB for linux-headers ? Need to recompile kernel/modules offline?
>>> - About gnome-icon-theme (9MiB), I believe that it should be split
>in
>>> gnome-icon-theme-minimal and gnome-icon-theme-full; then select only
>the
>>> minimal for ISO media.
>>>
>>>
>>> (*) Live sessions are essential to check if the OS works, before
>>> installing over a previous OS in the computer.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> El 11/08/16 a les 20:13, Ian Bruntlett ha escrit:
 Hi there,

 On 11 August 2016 at 19:00, Aere Greenway
>> wrote:

 On 08/11/2016 11:49 AM, Narcis Garcia wrote:

 I believe that the problem is on software selection to
>build
 live/install media, and not on any software package.
 If live/install media hasn't CUPS, seems to be caused by a
 discard decision.

 What I don't understand is, if this decision is for CD
>space
 reasons,
 why Lubuntu ISOs are still over 700MB.

 I would be very surprised if cups were intentionally discarded
>for
 space reasons.

 The ability to print is a necessity for any computer you do
>actual
 work with (in my opinion).

 If things are that desperate space-wise, the goal of fitting it
>on a
 CD should be abandoned, and defeat admitted.


 It currently doesn't fit on a CD. To install one of the Ubuntus, go
>to
 http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/netboot/ and download the relevant iso.
>From
 what I see there, 32-bit Ubuntus can be installed by putting a 48M
>iso
 onto CD-R and choosing options - e.g. Ubuntu or Lubuntu packages -
>at
 install time. I've been using a NetBoot CD-R for some of my 32-bit
 installs.

 HTH,


 Ian

 -- 
 -- ACCU - Professionalism in programming - http://www.accu.org
 -- My writing - https://sites.google.com/site/ianbruntlett/
 -- Free Software page -
 https://sites.google.com/site/ianbruntlett/home/free-software

>>>
>> 
>> Hi all Narcis, Aere and all other Lubuntu users and 

Re: [lubuntu-users] cups not built-in ?

[Narcis Garcia]

I believed that Lubuntu can run with RAM 256~384MiB
Many old computers (not super old) don't boot USB media. Some because
BIOS hasn't the feature, and some because presented boot option doesn't
work.
Is Plop included in ISO image as SmartBootMedia* is?

I believe an old computer is recoverable if it can be used as a
typewriter, printing, managing USB volumes to save documents, and
some networking {shared folders, shared printers, wikipedia browsing,
etc.}. If it's easy to use and compatible with hardware
upgrades... better then.

About heavy packages for east asiatic fonts, there is a Kylin project
more adequate for them. It's like the impossibility to include full
spanish desktop in a live session --> it will be installed when
installing to hard disk with internet access.

I cannot mind that a simple and usable operating system doesn't fit in
700MiB... and compressed... and expandable with package manager.

No body remembers that Lubuntu was based on the old Ubuntu Lite (u-lite)
and its purposes?
http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=ulite


(*) Lacks of sbminst


El 12/08/16 a les 20:42, Nio Wiklund ha escrit:
> [bottom posting]
> 
> Den 2016-08-12 kl. 09:33, skrev Narcis Garcia:
>> The lightest variant of Ubuntu, Lubuntu, should fit on a traditional
>> CD-ROM and should be installable without internet access. This is the
>> typical scenario (small computer, small internet) where someone chooses
>> Lubuntu.
>>
>> I believe all basic variants of Lubuntu should fit on a 700MB CD-ROM:
>> i386-desktop*
>> powerpc-desktop*
>> i386-alternate
>> powerpc-alternate
>>
>> - Why Mozilla software is kept instead of CUPS?? What about Midori
>> browser or others? Firefox is 45MiB compressed, Midori 11MiB, full CUPS
>> 10MiB.
>> - If someone needs Sylpheed, has internet access, then can install it
>> after; same with Pidgin and Transmission.
>> - Abiword can be a good selection; Gnumeric is not too esential as the
>> word processor is.
>> - How many partition managers are needed? GParted + gnomedisks ?
>> - How many package managers are needed? Synaptic + softwarecenter ?
>> - How many audio players are needed? Audacious + gnomemplayer ?
>> - Why there are 73MiB (compressed) dedicated to fonts-noto-cjk ? And
>> 8MiB to fonts-nanum ?
>> - 14MiB (compressed) dedicated to software-center metadata
>> (app-install-data) ?
>> - 9MiB for linux-headers ? Need to recompile kernel/modules offline?
>> - About gnome-icon-theme (9MiB), I believe that it should be split in
>> gnome-icon-theme-minimal and gnome-icon-theme-full; then select only the
>> minimal for ISO media.
>>
>>
>> (*) Live sessions are essential to check if the OS works, before
>> installing over a previous OS in the computer.
>>
>>
>>
>> El 11/08/16 a les 20:13, Ian Bruntlett ha escrit:
>>> Hi there,
>>>
>>> On 11 August 2016 at 19:00, Aere Greenway >> > wrote:
>>>
>>> On 08/11/2016 11:49 AM, Narcis Garcia wrote:
>>>
>>> I believe that the problem is on software selection to build
>>> live/install media, and not on any software package.
>>> If live/install media hasn't CUPS, seems to be caused by a
>>> discard decision.
>>>
>>> What I don't understand is, if this decision is for CD space
>>> reasons,
>>> why Lubuntu ISOs are still over 700MB.
>>>
>>> I would be very surprised if cups were intentionally discarded for
>>> space reasons.
>>>
>>> The ability to print is a necessity for any computer you do actual
>>> work with (in my opinion).
>>>
>>> If things are that desperate space-wise, the goal of fitting it on a
>>> CD should be abandoned, and defeat admitted.
>>>
>>>
>>> It currently doesn't fit on a CD. To install one of the Ubuntus, go to
>>> http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/netboot/ and download the relevant iso. From
>>> what I see there, 32-bit Ubuntus can be installed by putting a 48M iso
>>> onto CD-R and choosing options - e.g. Ubuntu or Lubuntu packages - at
>>> install time. I've been using a NetBoot CD-R for some of my 32-bit
>>> installs.
>>>
>>> HTH,
>>>
>>>
>>> Ian
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> -- ACCU - Professionalism in programming - http://www.accu.org
>>> -- My writing - https://sites.google.com/site/ianbruntlett/
>>> -- Free Software page -
>>> https://sites.google.com/site/ianbruntlett/home/free-software
>>>
>>
> 
> Hi all Narcis, Aere and all other Lubuntu users and developers,
> 
> I agree that this is a very important subject to discuss:
> 
> 1. To be or not to be within CD size
> 
> 2. if we decide that the Lubuntu iso files should be within CD size,
> which program packages to skip or replace.
> 
> 3. else, which program packages to add or replace to take advantage of
> the release from the CD size limit.
> 
> -o-
> 
> Where should be draw the limit? Are there any ten year old computers,
> that cannot boot from DVD or USB? My twelve year old Dell Dimension 4600
> can boot from both DVD and USB without 

Re: [lubuntu-users] cups not built-in ?

[Narcis Garcia]

I haven't much knowledge about captive portals;
What exactly do they need from a web browser?
Why other browsers than Mozilla's aren't useful for C.P. scenario?



El 12/08/16 a les 16:53, Brendan Perrine ha escrit:
> On Fri, 12 Aug 2016 09:33:47 +0200
> Narcis Garcia  wrote:
> 
>> - Why Mozilla software is kept instead of CUPS?? What about Midori
> Unfortanetly not having firefox on the live session could make a pain of 
> trying to use the live session and not have internet acess on places with 
> captive portals. I would be shocked if they tested their portal with midori 
> and unlikely the people making it have ever heard of midori. I don't like 
> captive portals but unfortanetly they are a reality even at places my linux 
> users group meets. 
> 
> I am not sure many people on this list in places that don't need 
> fonts-noto-cjk show part of the full package descrption "  This package 
> contains Noto font families for Traditional Chinese,
>  Simplified Chinese, Japanese and Korean:" Which is well over a billion 
> people can use this. 
> 
> 
> Well  gnome-disks has the really nice feature of being able to check on the 
> hardware of the drive you install onto this can be quite frustrating if it is 
> actually bad and does not install or if say it does not boot you can check 
> hard disk seems fine in smart data from the live session.  I do think Gparted 
> is better at managing partitions. 
> 
> These are some reason why these packages make sense in the live session. 
> 
> 

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Re: [lubuntu-users] cups not built-in ?

[Nio Wiklund]

[bottom posting]

Den 2016-08-12 kl. 09:33, skrev Narcis Garcia:

The lightest variant of Ubuntu, Lubuntu, should fit on a traditional
CD-ROM and should be installable without internet access. This is the
typical scenario (small computer, small internet) where someone chooses
Lubuntu.

I believe all basic variants of Lubuntu should fit on a 700MB CD-ROM:
i386-desktop*
powerpc-desktop*
i386-alternate
powerpc-alternate

- Why Mozilla software is kept instead of CUPS?? What about Midori
browser or others? Firefox is 45MiB compressed, Midori 11MiB, full CUPS
10MiB.
- If someone needs Sylpheed, has internet access, then can install it
after; same with Pidgin and Transmission.
- Abiword can be a good selection; Gnumeric is not too esential as the
word processor is.
- How many partition managers are needed? GParted + gnomedisks ?
- How many package managers are needed? Synaptic + softwarecenter ?
- How many audio players are needed? Audacious + gnomemplayer ?
- Why there are 73MiB (compressed) dedicated to fonts-noto-cjk ? And
8MiB to fonts-nanum ?
- 14MiB (compressed) dedicated to software-center metadata
(app-install-data) ?
- 9MiB for linux-headers ? Need to recompile kernel/modules offline?
- About gnome-icon-theme (9MiB), I believe that it should be split in
gnome-icon-theme-minimal and gnome-icon-theme-full; then select only the
minimal for ISO media.


(*) Live sessions are essential to check if the OS works, before
installing over a previous OS in the computer.



El 11/08/16 a les 20:13, Ian Bruntlett ha escrit:

Hi there,

On 11 August 2016 at 19:00, Aere Greenway > wrote:

On 08/11/2016 11:49 AM, Narcis Garcia wrote:

I believe that the problem is on software selection to build
live/install media, and not on any software package.
If live/install media hasn't CUPS, seems to be caused by a
discard decision.

What I don't understand is, if this decision is for CD space
reasons,
why Lubuntu ISOs are still over 700MB.

I would be very surprised if cups were intentionally discarded for
space reasons.

The ability to print is a necessity for any computer you do actual
work with (in my opinion).

If things are that desperate space-wise, the goal of fitting it on a
CD should be abandoned, and defeat admitted.


It currently doesn't fit on a CD. To install one of the Ubuntus, go to
http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/netboot/ and download the relevant iso. From
what I see there, 32-bit Ubuntus can be installed by putting a 48M iso
onto CD-R and choosing options - e.g. Ubuntu or Lubuntu packages - at
install time. I've been using a NetBoot CD-R for some of my 32-bit
installs.

HTH,


Ian

--
-- ACCU - Professionalism in programming - http://www.accu.org
-- My writing - https://sites.google.com/site/ianbruntlett/
-- Free Software page -
https://sites.google.com/site/ianbruntlett/home/free-software





Hi all Narcis, Aere and all other Lubuntu users and developers,

I agree that this is a very important subject to discuss:

1. To be or not to be within CD size

2. if we decide that the Lubuntu iso files should be within CD size, 
which program packages to skip or replace.


3. else, which program packages to add or replace to take advantage of 
the release from the CD size limit.


-o-

Where should be draw the limit? Are there any ten year old computers, 
that cannot boot from DVD or USB? My twelve year old Dell Dimension 4600 
can boot from both DVD and USB without any problems. Many older 
computers can chainload via Plop and boot Lubuntu from a USB pendrive.


I think it is time to give up, and let Lubuntu grow beyond the CD size, 
and to take the opportunity to improve the selection of program packages.


Best regards
Nio


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Re: [lubuntu-users] cups not built-in ?

[Simon Quigley]

Hello everyone,

Image sizes is indeed an issue that the Lubuntu team has been
discussing, and without saying too much (still needs the whole team's
approval) we have been thinking about this and you'll hear something
related soon.

Have a nice day!

-- 
Simon Quigley
tsimo...@lubuntu.me
tsimonq2 on freenode and OFTC

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Re: [lubuntu-users] cups not built-in ?

[Aere Greenway]

On 08/12/2016 07:02 AM, scrooya...@riseup.net wrote:

Indeed, but why not just stick to the basics? The OS + tools.
And leave additional software choices up to the end-user.
In my opinion, the ability to print and configure printers is part of 
the OS and tools.


Would a person new to Linux (or even experienced with Linux) realize 
that the reason the button for adding printers is grayed-out, is because 
they have to install a package called "cups"?


--
Sincerely,
Aere


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Re: [lubuntu-users] cups not built-in ?

[Brendan Perrine]

On Fri, 12 Aug 2016 09:33:47 +0200
Narcis Garcia  wrote:

> - Why Mozilla software is kept instead of CUPS?? What about Midori
Unfortanetly not having firefox on the live session could make a pain of trying 
to use the live session and not have internet acess on places with captive 
portals. I would be shocked if they tested their portal with midori and 
unlikely the people making it have ever heard of midori. I don't like captive 
portals but unfortanetly they are a reality even at places my linux users group 
meets. 

I am not sure many people on this list in places that don't need fonts-noto-cjk 
show part of the full package descrption "  This package contains Noto font 
families for Traditional Chinese,
 Simplified Chinese, Japanese and Korean:" Which is well over a billion people 
can use this. 


Well  gnome-disks has the really nice feature of being able to check on the 
hardware of the drive you install onto this can be quite frustrating if it is 
actually bad and does not install or if say it does not boot you can check hard 
disk seems fine in smart data from the live session.  I do think Gparted is 
better at managing partitions. 

These are some reason why these packages make sense in the live session. 


-- 
Brendan Perrine 

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Re: [lubuntu-users] cups not built-in ?

[scrooyahoo]

On 2016-08-12 09:33, Narcis Garcia wrote:

The lightest variant of Ubuntu, Lubuntu, should fit on a traditional
CD-ROM and should be installable without internet access. This is the
typical scenario (small computer, small internet) where someone chooses
Lubuntu.


What is the main reason?  Is has the kernel become that big?
Yesterday i came across XubuntuBSD... Don't know if that kernel is any 
smaller, nor how much work it involves to make it work




I believe all basic variants of Lubuntu should fit on a 700MB CD-ROM:
i386-desktop*
powerpc-desktop*
i386-alternate
powerpc-alternate


That indeed would be nice



- Why Mozilla software is kept instead of CUPS?? What about Midori
browser or others? Firefox is 45MiB compressed, Midori 11MiB, full CUPS
10MiB.
- If someone needs Sylpheed, has internet access, then can install it,
after; same with Pidgin and Transmission.


etc.

Indeed, but why not just stick to the basics? The OS + tools.
And leave additional software choices up to the end-user.

I for instance like to run Lubuntu on more powerful hardware and don't 
mind to use a bit more space.
Though i also Install it on older hardware. nut still find myself 
replacing Abi and gnumeric with LibreOffice

And i'm happy that the games are no-longer included by default.

I think it would be cool to have a basic OS and and eventual 
'personalised' add-on pack that can be installed offline from a 2nd CD 
or USB.


This way end users can use a basic Ubuntu install (in a desktop flavour 
they like best, and then add a personal selection of software to that. 
Instead of having to uninstall stuff they never use or having that stuff 
taking up space without ever using it.




- About gnome-icon-theme (9MiB), I believe that it should be split in
gnome-icon-theme-minimal and gnome-icon-theme-full; then select only 
the

minimal for ISO media.


If that's possible, that sounds good, i wonder though how much work it 
is to go that route. Are there enough people with the skills and time to 
make this happen?




(*) Live sessions are essential to check if the OS works, before
installing over a previous OS in the computer.


Yes, very essential.


I think CUPS should be there by default.

New users would probably find software center very usefull. Though i 
personally would vote for Synaptic if there has to be a default.



In the past the choice to add application made sense since there was 
space to do so. But now space had become critical this could be a good 
moment to figure out a clever way to stretch the goal to keep it under 
700MB.


I would not mind to see a Lubuntu-Minimal.iso (and also for the other 
flavours) as lean and clean as possible, but with all the essential 
tools.  Terminal, Text editor, partition tool, tool to safely flash an 
ISO (MKUSB?)



But what is the main mission? Keeping old hardware alive, fast and 
light, both, or even more then that?

And how does that mission fit best in the world as it is today.
OpenSuse has somekind of online pre-configuration tool to assemble a 
ISO. Interesting approach, though i doubt people will be able to fit in 
any of that in 700mb on their own, specially new users...


To me it would make most sense to first look at usability and make it 
first of all as simple as possible.  Unity and GNOME failed a bit in 
that department...  Way to many "WFT!?" episodes per minute...  So 
Lubuntu has a lot going for it . :-)  But for people who enjoy visual 
bling and don't mind to do backwards stuff i suppose this is all good?  
I'm sure they will iron out all that stuff, but it's not the best way to 
introduce yourself to new users.


But hey... OK it's still a 1000 times better then getting used to the 
animated tiles of Windows. And still people like to waste their time 
staring at tiles, searching for the right tile to click without getting 
distracted by all the other tiles.  Cute designer stuff, but a nightmare 
form a usability perspective.  It's just silly when you see people stare 
at tiles for minutes just to figure out how to open a note-pad.


And no, there is no need to re-invent the wheel. Round is still the most 
simple solution to roll.









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Re: [lubuntu-users] cups not built-in ?

[Narcis Garcia]

The lightest variant of Ubuntu, Lubuntu, should fit on a traditional
CD-ROM and should be installable without internet access. This is the
typical scenario (small computer, small internet) where someone chooses
Lubuntu.

I believe all basic variants of Lubuntu should fit on a 700MB CD-ROM:
i386-desktop*
powerpc-desktop*
i386-alternate
powerpc-alternate

- Why Mozilla software is kept instead of CUPS?? What about Midori
browser or others? Firefox is 45MiB compressed, Midori 11MiB, full CUPS
10MiB.
- If someone needs Sylpheed, has internet access, then can install it
after; same with Pidgin and Transmission.
- Abiword can be a good selection; Gnumeric is not too esential as the
word processor is.
- How many partition managers are needed? GParted + gnomedisks ?
- How many package managers are needed? Synaptic + softwarecenter ?
- How many audio players are needed? Audacious + gnomemplayer ?
- Why there are 73MiB (compressed) dedicated to fonts-noto-cjk ? And
8MiB to fonts-nanum ?
- 14MiB (compressed) dedicated to software-center metadata
(app-install-data) ?
- 9MiB for linux-headers ? Need to recompile kernel/modules offline?
- About gnome-icon-theme (9MiB), I believe that it should be split in
gnome-icon-theme-minimal and gnome-icon-theme-full; then select only the
minimal for ISO media.


(*) Live sessions are essential to check if the OS works, before
installing over a previous OS in the computer.



El 11/08/16 a les 20:13, Ian Bruntlett ha escrit:
> Hi there,
> 
> On 11 August 2016 at 19:00, Aere Greenway  > wrote:
> 
> On 08/11/2016 11:49 AM, Narcis Garcia wrote:
> 
> I believe that the problem is on software selection to build
> live/install media, and not on any software package.
> If live/install media hasn't CUPS, seems to be caused by a
> discard decision.
> 
> What I don't understand is, if this decision is for CD space
> reasons,
> why Lubuntu ISOs are still over 700MB.
> 
> I would be very surprised if cups were intentionally discarded for
> space reasons.
> 
> The ability to print is a necessity for any computer you do actual
> work with (in my opinion).
> 
> If things are that desperate space-wise, the goal of fitting it on a
> CD should be abandoned, and defeat admitted.
> 
> 
> It currently doesn't fit on a CD. To install one of the Ubuntus, go to
> http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/netboot/ and download the relevant iso. From
> what I see there, 32-bit Ubuntus can be installed by putting a 48M iso
> onto CD-R and choosing options - e.g. Ubuntu or Lubuntu packages - at
> install time. I've been using a NetBoot CD-R for some of my 32-bit
> installs.
> 
> HTH,
> 
> 
> Ian
> 
> -- 
> -- ACCU - Professionalism in programming - http://www.accu.org
> -- My writing - https://sites.google.com/site/ianbruntlett/
> -- Free Software page -
> https://sites.google.com/site/ianbruntlett/home/free-software
> 

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Re: [lubuntu-users] cups not built-in ?

[Ian Bruntlett]

Hi there,

On 11 August 2016 at 19:00, Aere Greenway  wrote:

> On 08/11/2016 11:49 AM, Narcis Garcia wrote:
>
>> I believe that the problem is on software selection to build
>> live/install media, and not on any software package.
>> If live/install media hasn't CUPS, seems to be caused by a discard
>> decision.
>>
>> What I don't understand is, if this decision is for CD space reasons,
>> why Lubuntu ISOs are still over 700MB.
>>
> I would be very surprised if cups were intentionally discarded for space
> reasons.
>
> The ability to print is a necessity for any computer you do actual work
> with (in my opinion).
>
> If things are that desperate space-wise, the goal of fitting it on a CD
> should be abandoned, and defeat admitted.


It currently doesn't fit on a CD. To install one of the Ubuntus, go to
http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/netboot/ and download the relevant iso. From
what I see there, 32-bit Ubuntus can be installed by putting a 48M iso onto
CD-R and choosing options - e.g. Ubuntu or Lubuntu packages - at install
time. I've been using a NetBoot CD-R for some of my 32-bit installs.

HTH,


Ian

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Re: [lubuntu-users] cups not built-in ?

[Aere Greenway]

On 08/11/2016 11:49 AM, Narcis Garcia wrote:

I believe that the problem is on software selection to build
live/install media, and not on any software package.
If live/install media hasn't CUPS, seems to be caused by a discard decision.

What I don't understand is, if this decision is for CD space reasons,
why Lubuntu ISOs are still over 700MB.
I would be very surprised if cups were intentionally discarded for space 
reasons.


The ability to print is a necessity for any computer you do actual work 
with (in my opinion).


If things are that desperate space-wise, the goal of fitting it on a CD 
should be abandoned, and defeat admitted.


--
Sincerely,
Aere


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Re: [lubuntu-users] cups not built-in ?

[Narcis Garcia]

I believe that the problem is on software selection to build
live/install media, and not on any software package.
If live/install media hasn't CUPS, seems to be caused by a discard decision.

What I don't understand is, if this decision is for CD space reasons,
why Lubuntu ISOs are still over 700MB.


El 11/08/16 a les 19:08, Aere Greenway ha escrit:
> On 08/11/2016 08:06 AM, Narcis Garcia wrote:
>> My checking results with Live media:
>> lubuntu-15.10-desktop-i386.isoCUPS working
>> lubuntu-16.04-desktop-i386.isoNo CUPS present
>> lubuntu-16.04.1-desktop-i386.isoNo CUPS present
>>
>> And for my surprise, lubuntu-15.10-alternate-i386.iso fits into a 700M
>> CD, but not any lubuntu-16.04-alternate-*.iso
>>
>>
>> El 11/08/16 a les 14:17, Marlon Ng ha escrit:
>>> Hi.  I just want everyone to know that my new clean install of lubuntu
>>> 16.04.1 did not seem to have CUPS.  I had to:
>>> sudo apt-get install cups
>>> which I've never had to do before.
>>>
>>> After executing the above command, system-config-printer was able to
>>> detect my epson printer.  Otherwise the "+ Add" button in
>>> system-config-printer was greyed out.
>>>
>>> I wonder if anyone else' installation of 16.04.1 was lacking CUPS.
>>>
>>> Ciao
>>>
>>>
> You are absolutely right.
> 
> I checked two test systems that were clean-installs of 16.04 (rather
> than upgrades from 15.10 or 14.04), and found that the ability to add
> printers was grayed-out (not available) on those systems.  That ability
> was still there on a xubuntu partition on one of the same machines.
> 
> Thanks for bringing this to our attention.  A bug-report needs to be
> created for this (in my opinion).
> 
> I will specify that the bug affects me too, if I am made aware of the
> actual bug report.
> 
> I would probably file the bug report (in a terminal) using the following
> command:
> 
> ubuntu-bug ubiquity
> 
> I'm not sure if cups is the right package, or if the live system
> installer ubiquity is the best package to name.
> 
> I would just do the bug report myself, but I'm not on one of those
> machines (having the problem) now, and they're very slow machines.
> 

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Re: [lubuntu-users] cups not built-in ?

[Aere Greenway]

On 08/11/2016 08:06 AM, Narcis Garcia wrote:

My checking results with Live media:
lubuntu-15.10-desktop-i386.iso  CUPS working
lubuntu-16.04-desktop-i386.iso  No CUPS present
lubuntu-16.04.1-desktop-i386.isoNo CUPS present

And for my surprise, lubuntu-15.10-alternate-i386.iso fits into a 700M
CD, but not any lubuntu-16.04-alternate-*.iso


El 11/08/16 a les 14:17, Marlon Ng ha escrit:

Hi.  I just want everyone to know that my new clean install of lubuntu
16.04.1 did not seem to have CUPS.  I had to:
sudo apt-get install cups
which I've never had to do before.

After executing the above command, system-config-printer was able to
detect my epson printer.  Otherwise the "+ Add" button in
system-config-printer was greyed out.

I wonder if anyone else' installation of 16.04.1 was lacking CUPS.

Ciao



You are absolutely right.

I checked two test systems that were clean-installs of 16.04 (rather 
than upgrades from 15.10 or 14.04), and found that the ability to add 
printers was grayed-out (not available) on those systems.  That ability 
was still there on a xubuntu partition on one of the same machines.


Thanks for bringing this to our attention.  A bug-report needs to be 
created for this (in my opinion).


I will specify that the bug affects me too, if I am made aware of the 
actual bug report.


I would probably file the bug report (in a terminal) using the following 
command:


ubuntu-bug ubiquity

I'm not sure if cups is the right package, or if the live system 
installer ubiquity is the best package to name.


I would just do the bug report myself, but I'm not on one of those 
machines (having the problem) now, and they're very slow machines.


--
Sincerely,
Aere


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Re: [lubuntu-users] cups not built-in ?

[Aere Greenway]

On 08/11/2016 06:17 AM, Marlon Ng wrote:
Hi.  I just want everyone to know that my new clean install of lubuntu 
16.04.1 did not seem to have CUPS. I had to:

sudo apt-get install cups
which I've never had to do before.

After executing the above command, system-config-printer was able to 
detect my epson printer.  Otherwise the "+ Add" button in 
system-config-printer was greyed out.


I wonder if anyone else' installation of 16.04.1 was lacking CUPS.

Ciao




Marlon:

I have not yet had occasion to install 16.04.1 yet, so I would not have 
encountered it.


It was not a problem when I installed 16.04 (the original release), and 
continued updates have not eliminated CUPS.  Also, upgrading from 14.04 
to 16.04.1 hasn't eliminated CUPS, but I would assume it would keep 
software already installed, except for what is classified as obsolete, 
or no longer needed.


Thanks for letting me know of your experience.  I will keep that in mind 
if I have occasion to do a clean install of 16.04.1.


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Aere

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Re: [lubuntu-users] cups not built-in ?

[Narcis Garcia]

My checking results with Live media:
lubuntu-15.10-desktop-i386.iso  CUPS working
lubuntu-16.04-desktop-i386.iso  No CUPS present
lubuntu-16.04.1-desktop-i386.isoNo CUPS present

And for my surprise, lubuntu-15.10-alternate-i386.iso fits into a 700M
CD, but not any lubuntu-16.04-alternate-*.iso


El 11/08/16 a les 14:17, Marlon Ng ha escrit:
> Hi.  I just want everyone to know that my new clean install of lubuntu
> 16.04.1 did not seem to have CUPS.  I had to:
> sudo apt-get install cups
> which I've never had to do before.
> 
> After executing the above command, system-config-printer was able to
> detect my epson printer.  Otherwise the "+ Add" button in
> system-config-printer was greyed out.
> 
> I wonder if anyone else' installation of 16.04.1 was lacking CUPS.
> 
> Ciao
> 
> 

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[lubuntu-users] cups not built-in ?

[Marlon Ng]

Hi.  I just want everyone to know that my new clean install of lubuntu
16.04.1 did not seem to have CUPS.  I had to:
sudo apt-get install cups
which I've never had to do before.

After executing the above command, system-config-printer was able to detect
my epson printer.  Otherwise the "+ Add" button in system-config-printer
was greyed out.

I wonder if anyone else' installation of 16.04.1 was lacking CUPS.

Ciao
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