Re: [Lustre-discuss] Alternative to DRBD

2009-07-21 Thread Andreas Dilger
On Jul 20, 2009  23:45 -0400, Brian J. Murrell wrote:
 On Mon, 2009-07-20 at 23:41 -0400, Mag Gam wrote:
  Other than DRBD and Hot standby are there any other alternatives? We
  want to have a redundant copy of our data and was wondering if rsync
  is the only way to accomplish this.
 
 Until the replication feature is available, rsync (or a suitable
 replacement) is about the only way to have an independent, redundant
 copy of your data.

In the 2.0 release there will be an efficient mechanism (Changelogs)
along with an rsync replacement to incrementally sync a Lustre filesystem
to another filesystem.

Cheers, Andreas
--
Andreas Dilger
Sr. Staff Engineer, Lustre Group
Sun Microsystems of Canada, Inc.

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Re: [Lustre-discuss] Alternative to DRBD

2009-07-21 Thread Daire Byrne

- Andreas Dilger adil...@sun.com wrote:
  Until the replication feature is available, rsync (or a suitable
  replacement) is about the only way to have an independent, redundant
  copy of your data.
 
 In the 2.0 release there will be an efficient mechanism (Changelogs)
 along with an rsync replacement to incrementally sync a Lustre
 filesystem to another filesystem.

We are currently using e2scan and distributed rsyncs across the compute farm to 
do the same thing with Lustre v1.6/1.8 to mirror our main filesystem to a 
backup every night.

Daire
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Re: [Lustre-discuss] Selection of kernel options for the distributed Lustre kernels

2009-07-21 Thread Arne Wiebalck

Hi Brian,


In addition to providing an updated I/B stack from OFED we also provide
the iSCSI stack from OFED as well, as it's generally newer than what
the vendor provides.  In order to do so and minimize confusion with the
vendor supplied kernel, we disable the vendor's iSCSI (as well as
infiniband) stacks.

You will find the iSCSI stack in the kernel-ib package we distribute
with our release.  Let me know if that doesn't pan out.  iSCSI is not
something we routinely test due to lack of hardware but more
importantly, simply lack of desire in our customer base.  iSCSI is just
not a common deployment method within the Lustre customer base.


We plan to use iSCSI arrays over TCP/IP as the shared storage for the 
MDT. So for me it would be of course much more convenient to have the
corresponding support for that in the pre-built rpms as it saves me the 
hassle to re-compile (so much for customer demand ;-).


Also, as you can turn a disk server into an iSCSI target I would think 
that this will more and more become an option to create relatively cheap 
shared storage for the MDT.


Any chance that at least the TCP/IP iSCSI initiator stuff is set back to 
the RHEL defaults?


--
CONFIG_SCSI_ISCSI_ATTRS=m
CONFIG_ISCSI_TCP=m
CONFIG_SCSI_QLA_ISCSI=m
--

Thanks,
 Arne


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Re: [Lustre-discuss] Selection of kernel options for the distributed Lustre kernels

2009-07-21 Thread Brian J. Murrell
On Tue, 2009-07-21 at 10:59 +0200, Arne Wiebalck wrote:
 Hi Brian,

Hi Arne,

 We plan to use iSCSI arrays over TCP/IP as the shared storage for the 
 MDT. So for me it would be of course much more convenient to have the
 corresponding support for that in the pre-built rpms as it saves me the 
 hassle to re-compile (so much for customer demand ;-).

It is.  As I said in my last e-mail, the iSCSI support is in the
kernel-ib RPM as we build the iSCSI stack from the OFED release.

 Also, as you can turn a disk server into an iSCSI target I would think 
 that this will more and more become an option to create relatively cheap 
 shared storage for the MDT.

Perhaps.  Perhaps not.  I would think that TCP/IP to the storage adds
latencies.  Latencies would be quite bad for the MDT.

 Any chance that at least the TCP/IP iSCSI initiator stuff is set back to 
 the RHEL defaults?

Is the iSCSI stack in the kernel-ib RPM not working for you?  Please
describe if that is the case.

b.



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Re: [Lustre-discuss] Selection of kernel options for the distributed Lustre kernels

2009-07-21 Thread Arne Wiebalck


Hi Brian,


It is.  As I said in my last e-mail, the iSCSI support is in the
kernel-ib RPM as we build the iSCSI stack from the OFED release.


Ups, sorry, seems I missed that point.



Also, as you can turn a disk server into an iSCSI target I would think 
that this will more and more become an option to create relatively cheap 
shared storage for the MDT.


Perhaps.  Perhaps not.  I would think that TCP/IP to the storage adds
latencies.  Latencies would be quite bad for the MDT.


Yes ... perhaps :)
Let's see.

Any chance that at least the TCP/IP iSCSI initiator stuff is set back to 
the RHEL defaults?


Is the iSCSI stack in the kernel-ib RPM not working for you?  Please
describe if that is the case.


I will try it out and let you know.

Thanks for you help,
 Arne



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Re: [Lustre-discuss] Alternative to DRBD

2009-07-21 Thread Michael Di Domenico
On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 4:02 AM, Daire Byrnedaire.by...@framestore.com wrote:

 - Andreas Dilger adil...@sun.com wrote:
  Until the replication feature is available, rsync (or a suitable
  replacement) is about the only way to have an independent, redundant
  copy of your data.

 In the 2.0 release there will be an efficient mechanism (Changelogs)
 along with an rsync replacement to incrementally sync a Lustre
 filesystem to another filesystem.

 We are currently using e2scan and distributed rsyncs across the compute farm 
 to do the same thing with Lustre v1.6/1.8 to mirror our main filesystem to a 
 backup every night.

Is this a script you'd be willing to share?
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Re: [Lustre-discuss] Selection of kernel options for the distributed Lustre kernels

2009-07-21 Thread Arne Wiebalck


Hi Brian,


Is the iSCSI stack in the kernel-ib RPM not working for you?  Please
describe if that is the case.


I will try it out and let you know.


I reinstalled the pre-built kernel from the rpm as available from the 
Lustre website and installed the kernel-ib package as well:


--
[r...@host ~]# rpm -qa | grep kernel-lustre
kernel-lustre-smp-2.6.18-128.1.6.el5_lustre.1.8.0.1

[r...@host ~]# rpm -qa | grep kernel-ib
kernel-ib-1.4.1-2.6.18_128.1.6.el5

[r...@host ~]# uname -a
Linux host 2.6.18-128.1.6.el5_lustre.1.8.0.1smp #1 SMP Thu Jun 18 
17:06:38 MDT 2009 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux

--

It seems that the iSCSI modules cannot be loaded:

--
[r...@host ~]# modprobe scsi_transport_iscsi
FATAL: Module scsi_transport_iscsi not found.
--

That's probably as modprobe will check in
/lib/modules/2.6.18-128.1.6.el5_lustre.1.8.0.1smp
not in
/lib/modules/2.6.18-128.1.6.el5
where kernel-ib installs its modules

So, insmod maybe?

--
[r...@host ~]# insmod 
/lib/modules/2.6.18-128.1.6.el5/updates/kernel/drivers/scsi/scsi_transport_iscsi.ko
insmod: error inserting 
'/lib/modules/2.6.18-128.1.6.el5/updates/kernel/drivers/scsi/scsi_transport_iscsi.ko': 
-1 Invalid module format

--

Am I missing anything obvious here?

TIA,
 Arne




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Re: [Lustre-discuss] Alternative to DRBD

2009-07-21 Thread Daire . Byrne
Michael,

- Michael Di Domenico mdidomeni...@gmail.com wrote:
  We are currently using e2scan and distributed rsyncs across the
 compute farm to do the same thing with Lustre v1.6/1.8 to mirror our
 main filesystem to a backup every night.
 
 Is this a script you'd be willing to share?

Sure, but it is fairly specific to our setup and (to be honest) is pretty 
hacktastic! The basic idea is that an e2scan is run on the production 
filesystem every night and new files (last 72 hours) are copied over 
(incremental). Then once a week we include deletes which then compares the 
e2scan file list from both the production and backup filesystems to work out 
what needs to be deleted from the backup to synchronise the two filesystems. We 
never really ever have to do a full backup. We also use LVM snapshots on the 
backup to give us a couple of weeks of retention.

It works for us but your mileage may vary.

Daire


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Re: [Lustre-discuss] 1.8.1(-ish) client vs. 1.6.7.2 server

2009-07-21 Thread Robin Humble

I added this to bugzilla.
  https://bugzilla.lustre.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20227

cheers,
robin

On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 01:09:33PM -0400, Robin Humble wrote:
On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 08:46:12AM -0400, Robin Humble wrote:
I get a ferocious set of error messages when I mount a 1.6.7.2
filesystem on a b_release_1_8_1 client.
is this expected?

just to annotate the below a bit in case it's not clear... sorry -
should have done that in the first email :-/

10.8.30.244 is MGS and one MDS, 10.8.30.245 is the other MDS in the
failover pair. 10.8.30.201 - 208 are OSS's (one OST per OSS), and the
fs is mounted in the usual failover way eg.
  mount -t lustre 10.8.30@o2ib:10.8.30@o2ib:/system /system

from the below (and other similar logs) it kinda looks like the client
fails and then renegotiates with all the servers.

cheers,
robin
--
Dr Robin Humble, HPC Systems Analyst, NCI National Facility

  Lustre: 13800:0:(o2iblnd_cb.c:459:kiblnd_rx_complete()) Rx from 
 10.8.30@o2ib failed: 5
  Lustre: 13799:0:(o2iblnd_cb.c:459:kiblnd_rx_complete()) Rx from 
 10.8.30@o2ib failed: 5
  Lustre: 615:0:(o2iblnd_cb.c:2384:kiblnd_reconnect()) 10.8.30@o2ib: 
 retrying (version negotiation), 12, 11, queue_dep: 8, max_frag: 256, 
 msg_size: 4096
  Lustre: mgc10.8.30@o2ib: Reactivating import
  Lustre: 13797:0:(o2iblnd_cb.c:459:kiblnd_rx_complete()) Rx from 
 10.8.30@o2ib failed: 5
  Lustre: 13798:0:(o2iblnd_cb.c:459:kiblnd_rx_complete()) Rx from 
 10.8.30@o2ib failed: 5
  Lustre: 615:0:(o2iblnd_cb.c:2384:kiblnd_reconnect()) 10.8.30@o2ib: 
 retrying (version negotiation), 12, 11, queue_dep: 8, max_frag: 256, 
 msg_size: 4096
  Lustre: Client system-client has started
  Lustre: 13798:0:(o2iblnd_cb.c:459:kiblnd_rx_complete()) Rx from 
 10.8.30@o2ib failed: 5
  ... last message repeated 17 times ...
  Lustre: 615:0:(o2iblnd_cb.c:2384:kiblnd_reconnect()) 10.8.30@o2ib: 
 retrying (version negotiation), 12, 11, queue_dep: 8, max_frag: 256, 
 msg_size: 4096
  Lustre: 615:0:(o2iblnd_cb.c:2384:kiblnd_reconnect()) 10.8.30@o2ib: 
 retrying (version negotiation), 12, 11, queue_dep: 8, max_frag: 256, 
 msg_size: 4096
  Lustre: 13798:0:(o2iblnd_cb.c:459:kiblnd_rx_complete()) Rx from 
 10.8.30@o2ib failed: 5
  Lustre: 615:0:(o2iblnd_cb.c:2384:kiblnd_reconnect()) 10.8.30@o2ib: 
 retrying (version negotiation), 12, 11, queue_dep: 8, max_frag: 256, 
 msg_size: 4096
  Lustre: 615:0:(o2iblnd_cb.c:2384:kiblnd_reconnect()) 10.8.30@o2ib: 
 retrying (version negotiation), 12, 11, queue_dep: 8, max_frag: 256, 
 msg_size: 4096
  Lustre: 13797:0:(o2iblnd_cb.c:459:kiblnd_rx_complete()) Rx from 
 10.8.30@o2ib failed: 5
  Lustre: 615:0:(o2iblnd_cb.c:2384:kiblnd_reconnect()) 10.8.30@o2ib: 
 retrying (version negotiation), 12, 11, queue_dep: 8, max_frag: 256, 
 msg_size: 4096
  Lustre: 615:0:(o2iblnd_cb.c:2384:kiblnd_reconnect()) 10.8.30@o2ib: 
 retrying (version negotiation), 12, 11, queue_dep: 8, max_frag: 256, 
 msg_size: 4096
  Lustre: 615:0:(o2iblnd_cb.c:2384:kiblnd_reconnect()) 10.8.30@o2ib: 
 retrying (version negotiation), 12, 11, queue_dep: 8, max_frag: 256, 
 msg_size: 4096
  Lustre: 615:0:(o2iblnd_cb.c:2384:kiblnd_reconnect()) 10.8.30@o2ib: 
 retrying (version negotiation), 12, 11, queue_dep: 8, max_frag: 256, 
 msg_size: 4096
  Lustre: 13800:0:(o2iblnd_cb.c:459:kiblnd_rx_complete()) Rx from 
 10.8.30@o2ib failed: 5

looks like it succeeds in the end, but only after a struggle.

I don't have any problems with 1.8.1 - 1.8.1 or 1.6.7.2 - 1.6.7.2.

servers are rhel5 x86_64 2.6.18-92.1.26.el5 1.6.7.2 + bz18793 (group
quota fix).
client is rhel5 x86_64 patched 2.6.18-128.1.16.el5-b_release_1_8_1 from
cvs 20090712131220 + bz18793 again.

BTW, should I be using cvs tag v1_8_1_RC1 instead of b_release_1_8_1?
I'm confused about which is closest to the final 1.8.1 :-/

cheers,
robin
--
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Re: [Lustre-discuss] mds adjust qunit failed

2009-07-21 Thread Robin Humble
On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 01:50:43PM +0800, Lu Wang wrote:
Dear list,
   I have gotten over 19000 quota-related errors on one MDS since 18:00 
 yesterday like:

Jul 20 18:24:04 * kernel: LustreError: 
 10999:0:(quota_master.c:507:mds_quota_adjust()) mds adjust qunit failed! 
 (opc:4 rc:-122)

if you look through the Linux errno header files, you'll find
  -122 is EDQUOT/* Quota exceeded */
so someone or some group is over quota - either inodes or diskspace.

it would be really good if this message said which uid/gid was over
quota, and from which client, and on which filesystem.
as you have found, the current message is not very informative and
overly verbose.

I was looking at the quota code around this message a few days ago, and
it looks like it'd be really easy to add some extra info to the message
but I have yet to test a toy patch I wrote...

cheers,
robin
--
Dr Robin Humble, HPC Systems Analyst, NCI National Facility


   Jul 20 18:29:27 * kernel: LustreError: 
 11007:0:(quota_master.c:507:mds_quota_adjust()) mds adjust qunit failed! 
 (opc:4 rc:-122)
 

Jul 21 13:44:27 * kernel: LustreError: 
10999:0:(quota_master.c:507:mds_quota_adjust()) mds adjust qunit failed! 
(opc:4 rc:-122)

# grep master /var/log/messages  |wc
  19628  255058 2665136

  Dose any one know what does this mean?   The mds is running  on 
 2.6.9-67.0.22.EL_lustre.1.6.6smp. 



  
Best Regards
Lu Wang
--   
Computing Center
IHEP   Office: Computing Center,123 
19B Yuquan RoadTel: (+86) 10 88236012-607
P.O. Box 918-7 Fax: (+86) 10 8823 6839
Beijing 100049,China   Email: lu.w...@ihep.ac.cn   

-- 

  



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[Lustre-discuss] client missing inodes

2009-07-21 Thread Thomas Roth
Hi all,

recently, many of our clients have been reporting errors of the type:
Jul 21 14:40:41  kernel: LustreError:
26871:0:(file.c:3024:ll_inode_revalidate_fini()) failure -2 inode 72692692

-2 is no such file or directory
Am I right that this means some inode info got lost on the MDT?

Also, people have reported problems finding their own files directly
after writing them. However, later on/ on other clients, these files
could be accessed. I'm not sure about the files' content, though.

Regards,
Thomas
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Re: [Lustre-discuss] 1.8.1(-ish) client vs. 1.6.7.2 server

2009-07-21 Thread Liang Zhen
Robin,

These messages should be harmless, 1.8.1 is using new o2iblnd message 
protocol, so there is a version negotiation if o2iblnd version of client 
is older,  is there any other o2ib error messages like  Deleting 
messages for xxx.xxx.xxx@o2b: connection failed when you see IO 
failure? Anyway, if you got more complaint from o2ib except these 
information, could you please post them on the bug you filed.

Thanks
Liang

Robin Humble wrote:
 I added this to bugzilla.
   https://bugzilla.lustre.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20227

 cheers,
 robin

 On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 01:09:33PM -0400, Robin Humble wrote:
   
 On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 08:46:12AM -0400, Robin Humble wrote:
 
 I get a ferocious set of error messages when I mount a 1.6.7.2
 filesystem on a b_release_1_8_1 client.
 is this expected?
   
 just to annotate the below a bit in case it's not clear... sorry -
 should have done that in the first email :-/

 10.8.30.244 is MGS and one MDS, 10.8.30.245 is the other MDS in the
 failover pair. 10.8.30.201 - 208 are OSS's (one OST per OSS), and the
 fs is mounted in the usual failover way eg.
  mount -t lustre 10.8.30@o2ib:10.8.30@o2ib:/system /system

 
 from the below (and other similar logs) it kinda looks like the client
   
 fails and then renegotiates with all the servers.

 cheers,
 robin
 --
 Dr Robin Humble, HPC Systems Analyst, NCI National Facility

 
  Lustre: 13800:0:(o2iblnd_cb.c:459:kiblnd_rx_complete()) Rx from 
 10.8.30@o2ib failed: 5
  Lustre: 13799:0:(o2iblnd_cb.c:459:kiblnd_rx_complete()) Rx from 
 10.8.30@o2ib failed: 5
  Lustre: 615:0:(o2iblnd_cb.c:2384:kiblnd_reconnect()) 10.8.30@o2ib: 
 retrying (version negotiation), 12, 11, queue_dep: 8, max_frag: 256, 
 msg_size: 4096
  Lustre: mgc10.8.30@o2ib: Reactivating import
  Lustre: 13797:0:(o2iblnd_cb.c:459:kiblnd_rx_complete()) Rx from 
 10.8.30@o2ib failed: 5
  Lustre: 13798:0:(o2iblnd_cb.c:459:kiblnd_rx_complete()) Rx from 
 10.8.30@o2ib failed: 5
  Lustre: 615:0:(o2iblnd_cb.c:2384:kiblnd_reconnect()) 10.8.30@o2ib: 
 retrying (version negotiation), 12, 11, queue_dep: 8, max_frag: 256, 
 msg_size: 4096
  Lustre: Client system-client has started
  Lustre: 13798:0:(o2iblnd_cb.c:459:kiblnd_rx_complete()) Rx from 
 10.8.30@o2ib failed: 5
  ... last message repeated 17 times ...
  Lustre: 615:0:(o2iblnd_cb.c:2384:kiblnd_reconnect()) 10.8.30@o2ib: 
 retrying (version negotiation), 12, 11, queue_dep: 8, max_frag: 256, 
 msg_size: 4096
  Lustre: 615:0:(o2iblnd_cb.c:2384:kiblnd_reconnect()) 10.8.30@o2ib: 
 retrying (version negotiation), 12, 11, queue_dep: 8, max_frag: 256, 
 msg_size: 4096
  Lustre: 13798:0:(o2iblnd_cb.c:459:kiblnd_rx_complete()) Rx from 
 10.8.30@o2ib failed: 5
  Lustre: 615:0:(o2iblnd_cb.c:2384:kiblnd_reconnect()) 10.8.30@o2ib: 
 retrying (version negotiation), 12, 11, queue_dep: 8, max_frag: 256, 
 msg_size: 4096
  Lustre: 615:0:(o2iblnd_cb.c:2384:kiblnd_reconnect()) 10.8.30@o2ib: 
 retrying (version negotiation), 12, 11, queue_dep: 8, max_frag: 256, 
 msg_size: 4096
  Lustre: 13797:0:(o2iblnd_cb.c:459:kiblnd_rx_complete()) Rx from 
 10.8.30@o2ib failed: 5
  Lustre: 615:0:(o2iblnd_cb.c:2384:kiblnd_reconnect()) 10.8.30@o2ib: 
 retrying (version negotiation), 12, 11, queue_dep: 8, max_frag: 256, 
 msg_size: 4096
  Lustre: 615:0:(o2iblnd_cb.c:2384:kiblnd_reconnect()) 10.8.30@o2ib: 
 retrying (version negotiation), 12, 11, queue_dep: 8, max_frag: 256, 
 msg_size: 4096
  Lustre: 615:0:(o2iblnd_cb.c:2384:kiblnd_reconnect()) 10.8.30@o2ib: 
 retrying (version negotiation), 12, 11, queue_dep: 8, max_frag: 256, 
 msg_size: 4096
  Lustre: 615:0:(o2iblnd_cb.c:2384:kiblnd_reconnect()) 10.8.30@o2ib: 
 retrying (version negotiation), 12, 11, queue_dep: 8, max_frag: 256, 
 msg_size: 4096
  Lustre: 13800:0:(o2iblnd_cb.c:459:kiblnd_rx_complete()) Rx from 
 10.8.30@o2ib failed: 5

 looks like it succeeds in the end, but only after a struggle.

 I don't have any problems with 1.8.1 - 1.8.1 or 1.6.7.2 - 1.6.7.2.

 servers are rhel5 x86_64 2.6.18-92.1.26.el5 1.6.7.2 + bz18793 (group
 quota fix).
 client is rhel5 x86_64 patched 2.6.18-128.1.16.el5-b_release_1_8_1 from
 cvs 20090712131220 + bz18793 again.

 BTW, should I be using cvs tag v1_8_1_RC1 instead of b_release_1_8_1?
 I'm confused about which is closest to the final 1.8.1 :-/

 cheers,
 robin
 --
 Dr Robin Humble, HPC Systems Analyst, NCI National Facility
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[Lustre-discuss] quota type - 3?

2009-07-21 Thread Shantanu S Pavgi
Hi,

The manual says there are two types quotas available v1 and v2. I
checked the quota_type parameter on a MDT as:

[r...@localhost ~]# cat /proc/fs/lustre/mds/atlantic-MDT/quota_type
3

Does this mean quota type 3 or no quota is enabled? It returns 'ug3'
after doing lfs quotacheck.  Also, where can I find proc entry for an
OST? Am I missing something?

Thanks,
Shantanu Pavgi.


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Re: [Lustre-discuss] detecting problematic files via mds/oss syslog messages

2009-07-21 Thread Ender Güler
Andreas and Brian,

Thank you for invaluable information you gave.

Regards,

Ender GULER

On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 4:51 PM, Brian J. Murrell brian.murr...@sun.comwrote:

 On Mon, 2009-07-20 at 16:06 -0600, Andreas Dilger wrote:
  On Jul 20, 2009  13:20 +0300, Ender G�ler wrote:
   Are there any ways of detecting the problematic file names from the
 mds/oss
   syslog messages? Or to be more definite, are there any ways to find a
 map of
   file name to inode number or file name to object id or inode number to
   object id? I'm trying to understand the insights of lustre and some
 times I
   wonder which files are affected from a lustre error? For example, when
 I see
   an object id in log messages, how can I understand which file is this?
 Is
   there any look up table, or map for these purposes?
 
  If there are particularly bad error messages, you could file a bug with
  details.
 
  It is also possible to manually map an OST object ID to an MDS filename.
  For example, objid 620032 on my filesystem:

 This exact procedure is being added to the manual FWIW.  Details are in
 bug 19753.

 b.


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Re: [Lustre-discuss] Alternative to DRBD

2009-07-21 Thread Mag Gam
Can't wait until 2.0 and SNS. I think thats the only die-hard feature
Lustre is really missing.


On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 10:19 AM, daire.by...@framestore.com wrote:
 Michael,

 - Michael Di Domenico mdidomeni...@gmail.com wrote:
  We are currently using e2scan and distributed rsyncs across the
 compute farm to do the same thing with Lustre v1.6/1.8 to mirror our
 main filesystem to a backup every night.

 Is this a script you'd be willing to share?

 Sure, but it is fairly specific to our setup and (to be honest) is pretty 
 hacktastic! The basic idea is that an e2scan is run on the production 
 filesystem every night and new files (last 72 hours) are copied over 
 (incremental). Then once a week we include deletes which then compares the 
 e2scan file list from both the production and backup filesystems to work out 
 what needs to be deleted from the backup to synchronise the two filesystems. 
 We never really ever have to do a full backup. We also use LVM snapshots on 
 the backup to give us a couple of weeks of retention.

 It works for us but your mileage may vary.

 Daire

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