[LUTE] Re: dedillo
I was just in Portugal for a PG conference. According to Pedro Caldeira Cabral, the PG is not a descendent of the EG but rather a parallel development of their "native" cittern. His large and wonderfully illustrated book includes his argument, and an article may be translated into English soon. The EG is probably of German rather than British origin, but I think trying to find the original source is futile. I've seen people play dedilho before, but never to such an advanced degree as in Portugal. I found it fascinating to watch. The octave stringing is also very important when using the thumb to play the melody and the index to play a tremolo, often on the second course. David Rutherfoord's instructions for Cittern or Guitar say index and thumb are enough. Bremner, Light and others say this technique is too limited. I guess they had never seen a real dedilho master. By the way, about long-necked lutes. I've been reading a book about the Bulgarian Tambura. The author argues that the saz and like instruments came to the Balkans from India via Bulgaria. He presents evidence of French writers from the late 18th and early 19th centuries who found such instruments in North Africa and the Middle East with names like the bulgaria. Doc Rossi On Oct 31, 2007, at 2:13 AM, John Griffiths wrote: > Hi Jocelyn, > No the guitarra portuguesa is closer to a cittern in its modern form > -- they still use the term viol=E3o (=vihuela in Port.) for the > Spanish > guitar. Even though the current instrument is of 18th-century British > origin, the techniques for playing it are much older. They still play > "dedilho" for most passage work. > > Check these: > > http://www.attambur.com/Recolhas/a_guitarra_portuguesa.htm > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_guitar > > John > > > On 31/10/2007, at 11:45, Nelson, Jocelyn wrote: > >> John, >> >> Is the Portuguese guitar you mention the 4-course like the >> Renaissance guitar and the uke? >> >> Jocelyn >> >> >> From: John Griffiths [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> Sent: Tue 10/30/2007 8:41 PM >> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: dedillo >> >> My two-penneth worth is that we have two main ways of learning about >> dedillo from contemporary practice. One is from the variety of >> techniques used in vihuela/guitarra-derivatives in Latin America, >> such as the charango and various others. The second is the Portuguese >> guitar that has continued to use dedillo technique in a manner that I >> suspect is not far removed from the way that sixteenth-century >> vihuelists used it. >> >> John >> >> >> On 31/10/2007, at 10:23, Eugene C. Braig IV wrote: >> >>> At 07:00 PM 10/30/2007, Stuart Walsh wrote: Is the vihuela the only instrument that uses this technique? I >> don't think there is anything like it in 4 or 5 course guitar, or any kind of lute, technique. There couldn't be anything in the construction of the instrument that makes this a more likely possibility, could there? And hats off to Ralph Maier for actually mastering it. Speaking only as an amateur: the whole business is trying to get the flesh of the fingers to sound the strings. But the downward stroke of dedillo seems like a crude bash with the nails. How do you square the considered upward pluck of the fingers with - what could easily be- a rather percussive chunk downwards with the thumb? >>> >>> Dedillo as tremolo is pretty common to modern classical guitar and >>> perhaps >>> even more common to flamenco (and, as Bill has offered, to chordal >>> charango >>> technique). >>> >>> I'm not certain how to interpret your latter paragraph, Stuart. The >>> potential imbalance in tone is between the typical full-voiced >>> upstroke of >>> nail/flesh against the thinner-voiced downstroke of the same >>> finger, back >>> of nail only. To quote the fine detail of Ralph's article: >>> [W]hen commencing a section of passage-work where dedillo has been >>> indicated in the tablature, or where the passage seems well-suited >>> to this >>> type of articulation, the vihuelist begins with an upward stroke on >>> the >>> accented beat with the fleshy side of the index finger. During the >>> subsequent release of the finger to its original starting point (in >>> other >>> words, the downstroke), the vihuelist articulates the string again, >>> now >>> with nail side of the finger. >>> >>> I don't necessarily think it needs to balance. I think the strong- >>> weak >>> pulse is a feature of dedillo to be exploited. >>> >>> Eugene >>> -- >>> >>> To get on or off this list see list information at >>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> >> ~ >> Professor John Griffiths >> Faculty of Music =95 The University of Melbourne 3010 =95 Victoria >> =95 >> Australia >> tel (61+3) 8344 8810 =95 fax (61+3) 8344 5346 =95 >> [EMAIL PROT
[LUTE] Re: dedillo
Hi Jocelyn, No the guitarra portuguesa is closer to a cittern in its modern form -- they still use the term viol=E3o (=vihuela in Port.) for the Spanish guitar. Even though the current instrument is of 18th-century British origin, the techniques for playing it are much older. They still play "dedilho" for most passage work. Check these: http://www.attambur.com/Recolhas/a_guitarra_portuguesa.htm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_guitar John On 31/10/2007, at 11:45, Nelson, Jocelyn wrote: > John, > > Is the Portuguese guitar you mention the 4-course like the > Renaissance guitar and the uke? > > Jocelyn > > > From: John Griffiths [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Tue 10/30/2007 8:41 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: dedillo > > My two-penneth worth is that we have two main ways of learning about > dedillo from contemporary practice. One is from the variety of > techniques used in vihuela/guitarra-derivatives in Latin America, > such as the charango and various others. The second is the Portuguese > guitar that has continued to use dedillo technique in a manner that I > suspect is not far removed from the way that sixteenth-century > vihuelists used it. > > John > > > On 31/10/2007, at 10:23, Eugene C. Braig IV wrote: > > > At 07:00 PM 10/30/2007, Stuart Walsh wrote: > >> Is the vihuela the only instrument that uses this technique? I > don't > >> think there is anything like it in 4 or 5 course guitar, or any > >> kind of > >> lute, technique. There couldn't be anything in the construction of > >> the > >> instrument that makes this a more likely possibility, could there? > >> And > >> hats off to Ralph Maier for actually mastering it. > >> > >> Speaking only as an amateur: the whole business is trying to get > >> the flesh > >> of the fingers to sound the strings. But the downward stroke of > >> dedillo > >> seems like a crude bash with the nails. How do you square the > >> considered > >> upward pluck of the fingers with - what could easily be- a rather > >> percussive chunk downwards with the thumb? > > > > Dedillo as tremolo is pretty common to modern classical guitar and > > perhaps > > even more common to flamenco (and, as Bill has offered, to chordal > > charango > > technique). > > > > I'm not certain how to interpret your latter paragraph, Stuart. The > > potential imbalance in tone is between the typical full-voiced > > upstroke of > > nail/flesh against the thinner-voiced downstroke of the same > > finger, back > > of nail only. To quote the fine detail of Ralph's article: > > [W]hen commencing a section of passage-work where dedillo has been > > indicated in the tablature, or where the passage seems well-suited > > to this > > type of articulation, the vihuelist begins with an upward stroke on > > the > > accented beat with the fleshy side of the index finger. During the > > subsequent release of the finger to its original starting point (in > > other > > words, the downstroke), the vihuelist articulates the string again, > > now > > with nail side of the finger. > > > > I don't necessarily think it needs to balance. I think the strong- > > weak > > pulse is a feature of dedillo to be exploited. > > > > Eugene > > -- > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > ~ > Professor John Griffiths > Faculty of Music =95 The University of Melbourne 3010 =95 Victoria =95 > Australia > tel (61+3) 8344 8810 =95 fax (61+3) 8344 5346 =95 > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > ~ > This e-mail and any attachments may contain personal information or > information that is otherwise confidential or the subject of > copyright. Any use, disclosure or copying of any part of it is > prohibited. The University does not warrant that this email or any > attachments are free from viruses or defects. Please check any > attachments for viruses and defects before opening them. If this e- > mail is received in error please delete it and notify us by return e- > mail. > > > > > -- ~ Professor John Griffiths Faculty of Music =95 The University of Melbourne 3010 =95 Victoria =95 Australia tel (61+3) 8344 8810 =95 fax (61+3) 8344 5346 =95 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ This e-mail and any attachments may contain personal information or information that is otherwise confidential or the subject of copyright. Any use, disclosure or copying of any part of it is prohibited. The University does not warrant that this email or any attachments are free from viruses or defects. Please check any attachments for viruses and defects before opening them. If this e- mail is received in error please delete it and notify us by return e- mail. --
[LUTE] Re: Lute book lullaby for SATB
Dear Daniel, yes, I am interested in the Geoffrey Shaw arrangement which is slightly different to the version that I have. It will probably extend my skill at intabulation to the limit if I tried this version -hence the query! best wishes Charles -Original Message- From: Daniel F Heiman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 30 October 2007 03:44 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute book lullaby for SATB Rainer: I know of at least two pieces that have been called "Lute-Book Lullaby." Both are found in the Willam Ballet Lute Book (Dublin, Trinity College BM, Add. 17786-91). One is for 5 voices or viols. The other has been arranged for 4 voices by Geoffrey Shaw and published as number 30 in "The Oxford Book of Carols" OUP, London, copyright 1928 and 1964. It is reproduced as number 34 in "Carols for Choirs" ed. R Jacques & David Willcocks, OUP, London, copyright 1961. I assume the latter is the one of interest here. Daniel Heiman On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 13:29:19 +0100 "Spring, aus dem, Rainer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > What is "the Lute-book lullaby" ? > > > Best wishes, > > Rainer aus dem Spring > IS department, development > > Tel.:+49 211-5296-355 > Fax.:+49 211-5296-405 > SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > -Original Message- > From: Charles Browne [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2007 7:20 PM > To: Lutelist > Subject: [LUTE] Lute book lullaby for SATB > > does anyone have a Fronimo/Django file of the Lute-book lullaby for > SATB? I would be very grateful for a copy! > thanks > Charles browne > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > CONFIDENTIALITY DISCLAIMER > *** > The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential > and may be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, > please destroy this message, delete any copies held on your systems > and notify the sender immediately. You should not retain, copy or > use this email for any purpose outside of any NDA currently existing > between Toshiba Electronics Europe GmbH and yourselves. > > Toshiba Electronics Europe GmbH > Hansaallee 181- 40549 Düsseldorf > Handelsregister Düsseldorf HRB 22487 > Geschäftsführer: Ryoichi Shikama > Amtsgericht Düsseldorf > > > >
[LUTE] Re: Canciones
There are two new editions of the Cancionero de Uppsala: 1. Ed Maricarmen Gomez Muntane: El Cancionero de Uppsala. Edited by Maricarmen Gomez Muntane. 2 vols. Valencia: Biblioteca Valenciana, Generalitat Valenciana (Conselleria de Cultura i Educacio - Direccio General del Llibre, Arxius i Biblioteques), 2003. 2. Ed Eduardo Sohns: Villancicos de diversos Autores. Ed. Eduardo Sohns. 3 vols. Buenos Aires: Eduardo Sohns Libros de Musica, 2002. (http://www.sohns-musica.com.ar/) In the Gomez edition, vol. 1 is a facsimile. The Sohns is cheap, excellent and practical. John Griffiths BTW, Sohns also made a nice edition analyzing different settings of a villancico, which is worth having. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
