[LUTE] Re: Archlute strings
Daniel wrote: -- David - has a 61/106cm archlute with single basses I see we are in the same ballpark. Is yours based on a particular historical model? Mine was just a salvage operation, (done as a favor), on an old, small 10 course. It's a combination of my wishes and the maker's ideas, so mine was done as a paid favor. ;-) I had just one archlute 64/130cm. Good instrument, but a little too long for 440Hz. And it had to go up and down between 415 and 440 all the time. Within a day even on occasion. So I wanted/needed another archlute for 440. Hence the 61cm. The diapassons are as short as possible for single gut. Not because they sound better this way, long sounds better, but because it's easier to travel with. I don't fly much, but when I do I prefer an extra seat for the lute. This instrument in its case is just under 140cm, the other one over 155cm. Size matters in small planes and taxis. David - pics somewhere on my website, under 'Instruments' David van Ooijen [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.davidvanooijen.nl To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Lutes in Eastern Europe
Beautiful. dt At 05:13 PM 6/30/2008, you wrote: I have added about a dozen of fascinating iconographic titbits at http://torban.org/mamai/index.html and the succeeding pages. Enjoy, RT To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: PDFprinting problems.
What software?
Are you using press output in the settings?
Backwards compatibility turned on?
Compression turned off for fonts and graphics?
dt
At 12:07 PM 6/30/2008, you wrote:
Dear All,
I downloaded some PDF files of The Weiss London Ms which I wanted to get
printed professionally. I checked each file (68) using both Acrobat and
pdf995Edit and gsview. They were fine. I then amalgamated then into four
PDFs checked again and sent them by email to the printers. The output was
wrong with a number of pages and I can only assume that fonts were being
substituted as the tablature lines were correct but the tablature glyphs had
been replaced by punctuation marks. The printer's computer screen showed the
files correctly. The manager said that this had never happened before and
they print off thousands of PDFs. I cannot explain it . Document info shows
that the Django fonts are embedded. I have printed these files before and
were it not for the 'fiddle' of binding them I would do it again. Can
anybody ell me what the problem is?
Thanks
Charles
it's a long winding road without a map and compass. {MRY6STVMNzY9Gl7wis}
To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Decisions, decisions
On Jun 30, 2008, at 11:01 PM, David Tayler wrote: Consider a dual purpose instrument. An archlute, or a 9 course or 10 course can be dual setup to play in French tuning, either with double strings (archlute) or single strings (9 or 10 course) as well as the original tuning. Sorry, I'm not following you here. Can you explain that again? Thanks, David R [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: [**spam**] Lutes in Eastern Europe
Fascinating, as you say, Roman. Does anyone know what these fellows would have been playing? No one knows. The culture was entirely oral until late 1500's. And the torban players at the head of long lines of horesemen; any comments? That is 19th century misrepresentation. And it looks like a tiorbino to me. RT ps I reorganized the picures, as they strayed out of category, and improved the navigation between the 5 pages. http://torban.org/mamai/index.html and the succeeding pages. RT To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: medieval plectrum, how to make?
At 05:50 PM 6/28/2008, LGS-Europe wrote: I'm just an occasional dabbler in plectrum technique and I'm getting really confused! Two related things are bothering me - which end of the damned feather to use, and (difficult to phrase this one), wobbly or stiff? A guitar string (or presumably a lute string) or the thin end of a feather is very wobbly indeed. Just out of interest I've tried both and I can sort of see how they may work. Wouldn't you get a very tinny, 'rebec' like sound. On the other hand, surely a horn or bone (or modern plastic) plectrum or even the thick end of a feather would be wholly different. I found these pictures and text explaining how to split a feather and make one of the resulting halves of the tip (the bit stuck into the bird) into a plectrum, much like a pen, very instructive: http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?s=263874652887a855b1a3a0ff8f6a6f14;act=ST;f=6;t=15088 Remarkable. That page looks identical to the one I e-mailed to the list back at the beginning of June...because it is. That set of instructions was crafted by a fellow .nl-er, David: Alex Timmerman in Zwolle. I've done it with a turkey feather. I've made two quite different plectra out of one feather. One for fast runs and flexible melodies, one for strong tenor lines. I'm still hunting for an ostrich, not many around here, to try the other type of plectrum, and haven't turned my bit of ossobucco into a plectrum yet, but it's waiting. Cow's horn is also on my list, but I cannot think of a dish yet. Different plectra have quite a different sound, indeed. Choose one that suits the piece and the ensemble. Indeed. Also as I'd mailed back then, I have gotten consistent results from the body tube of a particular model of Bic ball-point pen. Best, Eugene To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: medieval plectrum, how to make?
I found these pictures and text explaining how to split a feather and make one of the resulting halves of the tip (the bit stuck into the bird) into a plectrum, much like a pen, very instructive: http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?s=263874652887a855b1a3a0ff8f6a6f14;act=ST;f=6;t=15088 Remarkable. That page looks identical to the one I e-mailed to the list back at the beginning of June...because it is. That set of instructions was crafted by a fellow .nl-er, David: Alex Timmerman in Zwolle. Sorry, I should have said it was you who pointed me to Alex' instructions, but I had deleted your mail, just kept the page. Alex Timmermans made a small booklet showing of (his?) collection of mandolines and guitar in nice pictures: De Mandoline en de Gitaar door de eeuwen heen Originele Historische Instrumenten. AETii-producties Postbus 1040 8001BA Zwolle ISBN: 90-9007969-6 Obscure publisher, but http://www.saulbgroen.nl/ can order it for you and it costs next to nothing. David David van Ooijen [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.davidvanooijen.nl To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: medieval plectrum, how to make?
Not at all, David. I shouldn't be given any credit for work Alex has done. Carry on and enjoy. I do have Alex's little book. It's very useful for those of us with an interest in baroque-era mandolins. I think you may be able to order it directly from him: http://www.mandolineorkest.nl/informatie/enboek.htm. I don't even read Dutch, and I think the visual chronology and instrument measurements are worth the price alone. Unfortunately to the thread at hand, the book has nothing at all to do with fabricating plectra of quills. Peripheral, but for those with an interest more modern incarnations of functionally archlute-like-thingies, Alex also has some nice articles in the Italian journal GuitArt and elsewhere on romantic-era guitars with sub-bass diapasons. Best, Eugene At 09:00 AM 7/1/2008, LGS-Europe wrote: I found these pictures and text explaining how to split a feather and make one of the resulting halves of the tip (the bit stuck into the bird) into a plectrum, much like a pen, very instructive: http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?s=263874652887a855b1a3a0ff8f6a6f14;act=ST;f=6;t=15088 Remarkable. That page looks identical to the one I e-mailed to the list back at the beginning of June...because it is. That set of instructions was crafted by a fellow .nl-er, David: Alex Timmerman in Zwolle. Sorry, I should have said it was you who pointed me to Alex' instructions, but I had deleted your mail, just kept the page. Alex Timmermans made a small booklet showing of (his?) collection of mandolines and guitar in nice pictures: De Mandoline en de Gitaar door de eeuwen heen Originele Historische Instrumenten. AETii-producties Postbus 1040 8001BA Zwolle ISBN: 90-9007969-6 Obscure publisher, but http://www.saulbgroen.nl/ can order it for you and it costs next to nothing. David David van Ooijen [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.davidvanooijen.nl To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: PDFprinting problems.
I have no idea what software the printers use suffice to ay they are a
commercial outfit and certainly the screen output looked completely normal.
The PDFs were not compressed but were amalgamated using PDF995 suite.I could
understand it better if all the printed output was corrupt but many pages
were normal, I doubt whether the firm will want to talk to me again!
CH
-Original Message-
From: David Tayler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 01 July 2008 10:22
To: lute-cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [LUTE] Re: PDFprinting problems.
What software?
Are you using press output in the settings?
Backwards compatibility turned on?
Compression turned off for fonts and graphics?
dt
At 12:07 PM 6/30/2008, you wrote:
Dear All,
I downloaded some PDF files of The Weiss London Ms which I wanted to get
printed professionally. I checked each file (68) using both Acrobat and
pdf995Edit and gsview. They were fine. I then amalgamated then into four
PDFs checked again and sent them by email to the printers. The output was
wrong with a number of pages and I can only assume that fonts were being
substituted as the tablature lines were correct but the tablature glyphs
had
been replaced by punctuation marks. The printer's computer screen showed
the
files correctly. The manager said that this had never happened before and
they print off thousands of PDFs. I cannot explain it . Document info shows
that the Django fonts are embedded. I have printed these files before and
were it not for the 'fiddle' of binding them I would do it again. Can
anybody ell me what the problem is?
Thanks
Charles
it's a long winding road without a map and compass. {MRY6STVMNzY9Gl7wis}
To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Archlute strings
On Jul 1, 2008, at 12:38 AM, LGS-Europe wrote: I don't fly much, but when I do I prefer an extra seat for the lute. This instrument in its case is just under 140cm, the other one over 155cm. Size matters in small planes and taxis. It certainly does. Toy planes are historically incorrect. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: PDFprinting problems.
Charles,
If you really want to be sure of your print, take the files you outputted
from PDF995 and open each page separately in a vector based program like
Adobe Illustrator. Select everything on the page (ctrl-A), go to the Type
pulldown and then select create outlines. This vectorizes all type so
you don't have to worry about font and compression discrepancies at your
print company. Then resave each page as a pdf. Use a program like Acrobat
Professional to re-compile all the pages back to one multi-page document and
you are ready to go. Unfortunately you can not open a multiple page document
in Illustrator (maybe the latest version?), you could use Quark. When you
open the pdf in Illustrator you can select which page of the pdf you want to
work on. Having done magazine ads, large cmyk print runs (some of which that
had output nowhere close to what I saw on the screen) etc, I have found
there are just too many options, and version incompatibilities,
software/font/rip settings to go wrong when you are using specialized
software/fonts and not worth it when you are paying somebody else by the
page for prints. You can re-open the pdf in Illustrator and check to see
that each graphic, letters, etc are vector, multi-curve shapes and not a
font-type input item. This is the long way. You might be able streamline a
step or two, but you now have a reliable file you can take to any printer,
and get a usable result in rgb or cmyk. You could even create a 50-foot
outdoor banner.
Good luck,
Jason
- Original Message -
From: Charles Browne [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: David Tayler [EMAIL PROTECTED]; lute-cs.dartmouth.edu
lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: 2008-07-01 09:38 AM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: PDFprinting problems.
I have no idea what software the printers use suffice to ay they are a
commercial outfit and certainly the screen output looked completely
normal.
The PDFs were not compressed but were amalgamated using PDF995 suite.I
could
understand it better if all the printed output was corrupt but many pages
were normal, I doubt whether the firm will want to talk to me again!
CH
-Original Message-
From: David Tayler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 01 July 2008 10:22
To: lute-cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [LUTE] Re: PDFprinting problems.
What software?
Are you using press output in the settings?
Backwards compatibility turned on?
Compression turned off for fonts and graphics?
dt
At 12:07 PM 6/30/2008, you wrote:
Dear All,
I downloaded some PDF files of The Weiss London Ms which I wanted to get
printed professionally. I checked each file (68) using both Acrobat and
pdf995Edit and gsview. They were fine. I then amalgamated then into four
PDFs checked again and sent them by email to the printers. The output was
wrong with a number of pages and I can only assume that fonts were being
substituted as the tablature lines were correct but the tablature glyphs
had
been replaced by punctuation marks. The printer's computer screen showed
the
files correctly. The manager said that this had never happened before and
they print off thousands of PDFs. I cannot explain it . Document info
shows
that the Django fonts are embedded. I have printed these files before and
were it not for the 'fiddle' of binding them I would do it again. Can
anybody ell me what the problem is?
Thanks
Charles
it's a long winding road without a map and compass. {MRY6STVMNzY9Gl7wis}
To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Lute DSP
Playing from tablature can easily be done without knowledge of the polyphony, ornamentation and voice leading. It can ALSO be done while seeing all these things--this is Lute DSP Thus, one can easily apply the correct ornaments to tab, as well as transpose up and down a tone or a fourth, and sing any of the parts., using Lute DSP. Until the notes can seen as well as heard, it is really not practical to apply a number of ormaments which can create bad voice leading. For a renaissance musician, this was a piece of cake, because they were multilingual, experienced translators, and read music fluently in all clefs, and could transpose. For us, it is a relative challenge. Everyone has their own way of training, my trial and error method presently is to duplicate the historical musician's training. That means, clefs, notation, transposition, etc, etc. I can understand why many people feel that is too much work, but without the notation/voice leading background complex ornamentation is really not practical. My ultimate reasoning is that the lute players of today should be regarded as the best musicians in the world. Sadly, that is not the case. Far too often we are considered by other players as notationally challenged This may be an unpopular view. Each player has to weigh how much and what sort of training to put in and see how much they then enjoy the music, find it rewarding, valuable etc. And in this respect there is room for every approach style. Thank heaven. In French ornamentation, I think one gets more out of it by learning all the agreements brouderie, and the right application. But that is a personal decision. I simply find it unusual that this whole gigantic area of style is not practiced. What an opportunity! As a professional, I am frequently called upon to tone transpose. This is no problem for either notation or tab, as it is a simple skill, easily learned, and common practice historically. Being able to do this task unquestionably creates more work opportunities, as does knowledge of different types of ornamentation. It is just simple Lute DSP Certainly easier than the Times crossword or those scary Sudoku puzzles. In Ultimate Lute DSP one sees the tab, the notes, the trasposition possibilities and the ornaments simultaneously. In a way, this reflects the look of Dowland Lacrimae set, with the parts written out. This is the best set of Lute Lessons of its time. Practically speaking, reading and visualizing the notes is plenty for basic ornamentation, if ornamentation is your goal. One can easily create examples that show tab conversion into voice leading, and how certain ornaments work and others do not. And take out the guesswork. I'll be happy to put some online. I think there really needs to by a clear compelling reason NOT to learn the basics elements of musical training of the historical musicians--especially when singers, cornetto, recorder and keyboard players are doing exactly that. But even if there were no professional incentive to learn these things, it just seems like: :They knew it, so I should learn it as opposed to They knew it; I need not learn it dt At 07:46 AM 7/1/2008, you wrote: Dear David, I'm suspicious there was reason for this misguided development. I have in front of me three versions of the courante La Caressante by Denis Gaultier. One is a transcription by Dagobert Bruger (1938), another is the Rhetorique version, and the third is Rostock XVII-54, p. 239. Bruger used to play the lute in guitar tuning, while Gerwig played the renaissance lute throughout. Both of them must transcribe tablatures into staff notation when it came to French baroque lute music. Which they did. Which is where perception was misguided: in the transcription of tablatures, viz. distinct parts weren't recognized as such (descant and middle parts mixed), with the descant part consisting of musical gestures, which implies sometimes longer breaks between the gestures. For the sake of comparison, I took out the guitar and played through Bruger's transcription, resulting in what I'd expect from a Gerwig recording. Nice courante, but doesn't make much sense. The upper voice includes all the upper notes, but that's more than the descant part really has. At some places, Bruger wrote in three parts, but most of the time, middle and descant parts written together. You just can't tell one from another. And what's more, you cannot recognize imitations. Playing from the tablatures is a different world, to put it short. If in search of them, you can eventually hear imitations and three distinct parts. And you can play ornaments, which Bruger omitted. Rostock is an extended version of the Rhetorique version, elaborating on ornamenting the parts. -- Best, Mathias -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Archlute strings
However, tiny hydrogen powered taxis existed in mini black holes for centuries. dt On Jul 1, 2008, at 12:38 AM, LGS-Europe wrote: I don't fly much, but when I do I prefer an extra seat for the lute. This instrument in its case is just under 140cm, the other one over 155cm. Size matters in small planes and taxis. It certainly does. Toy planes are historically incorrect. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Archlute strings
one over 155cm. Size matters in small planes and taxis. It certainly does. Toy planes are historically incorrect. ROTFLOL! Actually, the instrument took shape in my head when I visited the instrument museum in Paris one fine afternoon before playing an evening concert on the larger archlute, having taken that on the tiny TGV. All those cute archlutes - many double first courses! David David van Ooijen [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.davidvanooijen.nl To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Tokyo, Nanki Music Library
Dear Everyone, in 2005 I received copies of mus ms. 4/-42 (Tokyo, Nanki Music Library) from the LSA archive. It contains some ten pages of lute music in French flat tuning, and another ten pages with Italian songs and lute continuo. I was warned that the copies were hardly legible. Now the ms. has become of interest to me, I must admit it's true. Can somebody please give advice how to contact Tokyo, Nanki Music Library? Or does somebody own copies of that ms. that are legible, and would be willing to share? My plan is to type the music into a Fronimo file and post it to Francesco's Fronimo page. -- Mathias To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] French Style
My copy of Les Agrements - French Baroque Ornamentation, by Michel Pignolet Monteclaire has arrived from Jacks, Pipes Hammers, and I find the publisher is Peacock Press, not Severinus Press. Sorry for that. Also, an off-list e-mail suggested it would have been helpful and appreciated had I mentioned the price. Fifteen pounds sterling, postage paid. Regards, Steve Burd. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
