[LUTE] Re: Bartolotti's continuo treatise
Perhaps you missed what Monica Hall wrote after quoting Satoh: “This is all my imagination and conjecture? She added Satoh's more misleading comment based on the few documents concerning De Visee's life In short, Satoh misleads by suggesting that his spurious conjectures, especially on birth place, are somehow based on historical sources. MH From: howard posner howardpos...@ca.rr.com To: Lutelist lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, 28 February 2014, 23:32 Subject: [LUTE] Re: Bartolotti's continuo treatise On Feb 28, 2014, at 2:17 PM, Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk wrote: I think you are being disingenious. What Satoh actually says is This is all my imagination and conjecture, based on the few documents concerning De Visee's life. How is the reader supposed to know what is based on these few documents and what is idle fantasy? I think “This is all my imagination and conjecture” pretty much gives it away. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] De Visee
Thank you very much for that Martyn. I don't know how many people have actually read these liner notes. Three whole pages are taken up with this biography - it is not until you turn to p.4 that you discover - Oh by the way - none of this is true. Some of the information is factually accurate. Some of it is not - which I think is inexcusable - Satoh is apparently unaware that Louis XIV died in 1715 and that when De Visee was appointed guitar teacher to the King it was to the 9 year old Louis XV. Some of it is obviously bollocks. When I first read these I queried on this list whether there was any evidence that De Visee was born in Portugal - not after all impossible - but did not get a satisfactory answer. I did my best to trace the source of this information - which had found its way into Wikipedia - perhaps that is where Satoh got the idea from. It seems that somebody some time ago suggested that De Visee's name implied that his family (rather than he himself) was Portuguese in origin. And so it goes. Endless pointless speculation masquerading as musicology, I can understand why David and and others who know Satoh personally and admire his playing might want to try and defend him. But I think that it needs to be said that people in his position - after all he taught at one of the most prestigious music colleges in the world until recently - shouldn't indulge in idle fantasy which may mislead the unwary. At the end of the day he has said nothing about the music or the manuscript from which it is taken which would have been much more interesting. As ever Monica - Original Message - From: Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk To: Lute Dmth lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2014 8:24 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Bartolotti's continuo treatise Perhaps you missed what Monica Hall wrote after quoting Satoh: “This is all my imagination and conjecture? She added Satoh's more misleading comment based on the few documents concerning De Visee's life In short, Satoh misleads by suggesting that his spurious conjectures, especially on birth place, are somehow based on historical sources. MH From: howard posner howardpos...@ca.rr.com To: Lutelist lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, 28 February 2014, 23:32 Subject: [LUTE] Re: Bartolotti's continuo treatise On Feb 28, 2014, at 2:17 PM, Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk wrote: I think you are being disingenious. What Satoh actually says is This is all my imagination and conjecture, based on the few documents concerning De Visee's life. How is the reader supposed to know what is based on these few documents and what is idle fantasy? I think “This is all my imagination and conjecture” pretty much gives it away. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Saturday morning quotes - rewriting history
We have posted our Saturday morning quotes, following up with observations on historical continuo practice. [1]http://wp.me/p15OyV-XN Ron Donna -- References 1. http://wp.me/p15OyV-XN To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] War, was Re:
Russia declares war on Ukraine. Il basso continua.. RT On 3/1/2014 10:00 AM, Ron Andrico wrote: We have posted our Saturday morning quotes, following up with observations on historical continuo practice. [1]http://wp.me/p15OyV-XN Ron Donna -- References 1. http://wp.me/p15OyV-XN To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - rewriting history
Dear Ron and Donna. Beautifully argued. In fact I could almost smell 'the odor of defeat' :D . Bill Samson [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android __ From: Ron Andrico praelu...@hotmail.com; To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; Subject: [LUTE] Saturday morning quotes - rewriting history Sent: Sat, Mar 1, 2014 3:00:55 PM We have posted our Saturday morning quotes, following up with observations on historical continuo practice. [1][2]http://wp.me/p15OyV-XN Ron Donna -- References 1. [3]http://wp.me/p15OyV-XN To get on or off this list see list information at [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. https://uk.overview.mail.yahoo.com/mobile/?.src=Android 2. http://wp.me/p15OyV-XN 3. http://wp.me/p15OyV-XN 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: De Visee
Satoh is a veteran performer. He has made many contributions to our field both as a player and a scholar who has published in professional journals. As such, he speaks with some authority and many will assume that even his conjectures have a basis in fact. I understand the temptation as an artist to slip into poetic fantasy, but Satoh should certainly also realize that we in early music walk in both the aesthetic and scholarly paths of music. Those who only have an ancillary relationship with musicological concerns could be confused by his notes. I could easily imagine (and this is just my imagination!) a non-musician historian writing an offhand aside like The Sun King's retinue of entertainers included an assortment of notable individuals culled from all over the world, such as the Italian Lully and the Portuguese de Visee. Even worse, this is exactly the sort of thing that is very likely to slip through into a classical guitar dissertation someday, because the musicology faculty will not being willing to admit that they have no interest or knowledge in guitar history and the guitar faculty could care less about the history of their own instrument. That student's dissertation then ends up being referenced and repeated by others so that before you know it, it's a known fact that de Visee was from Portugual. Chris[1] Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad __ From: Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk; To: Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk; Cc: Lutelist lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; Subject: [LUTE] De Visee Sent: Sat, Mar 1, 2014 11:39:05 AM Thank you very much for that Martyn. I don't know how many people have actually read these liner notes. Three whole pages are taken up with this biography - it is not until you turn to p.4 that you discover - Oh by the way - none of this is true. Some of the information is factually accurate. Some of it is not - which I think is inexcusable - Satoh is apparently unaware that Louis XIV died in 1715 and that when De Visee was appointed guitar teacher to the King it was to the 9 year old Louis XV. Some of it is obviously bollocks. When I first read these I queried on this list whether there was any evidence that De Visee was born in Portugal - not after all impossible - but did not get a satisfactory answer. I did my best to trace the source of this information - which had found its way into Wikipedia - perhaps that is where Satoh got the idea from. It seems that somebody some time ago suggested that De Visee's name implied that his family (rather than he himself) was Portuguese in origin. And so it goes. Endless pointless speculation masquerading as musicology, I can understand why David and and others who know Satoh personally and admire his playing might want to try and defend him. But I think that it needs to be said that people in his position - after all he taught at one of the most prestigious music colleges in the world until recently - shouldn't indulge in idle fantasy which may mislead the unwary. At the end of the day he has said nothing about the music or the manuscript from which it is taken which would have been much more interesting. As ever Monica - Original Message - From: Martyn Hodgson [2]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk To: Lute Dmth [3]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2014 8:24 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Bartolotti's continuo treatise Perhaps you missed what Monica Hall wrote after quoting Satoh: This is all my imagination and conjecture? She added Satoh's more misleading comment based on the few documents concerning De Visee's life In short, Satoh misleads by suggesting that his spurious conjectures, especially on birth place, are somehow based on historical sources. MH From: howard posner [4]howardpos...@ca.rr.com To: Lutelist [5]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, 28 February 2014, 23:32 Subject: [LUTE] Re: Bartolotti's continuo treatise On Feb 28, 2014, at 2:17 PM, Monica Hall [6]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk wrote: I think you are being disingenious. What Satoh actually says is This is all my imagination and conjecture, based on the few documents concerning De Visee's life. How is the reader supposed to know what is based on these few documents and what is idle fantasy? I think This is all my imagination and conjecture pretty much gives it away. -- To get on or off this list see list information at [7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS 2. javascript:return
