[LUTE] Re: Bare spot on soundboard.
Necessity of pinky on top is not the answer to why it's there. On R-lute, if you hold your hand in such a manner that the thumb has a good angle of striking both strings of a pair, and do likewise with your index finger, all relaxed, thumb-inside, hand a little cupped, fingers like slightly bend bananas, your pinky is bound to touch the top, unless you'd stick it out to prevent it touching. It's not the top of the pinky that rests like a crutch on the top, but the last digit that gently slides along as the hand moves up and down in alternating thumb-index stroke. David *** David van Ooijen [1]davidvanooi...@gmail.com [2]www.davidvanooijen.nl *** On 29 July 2014 06:34, howard posner <[3]howardpos...@ca.rr.com> wrote: On Jul 28, 2014, at 8:16 PM, Mayes, Joseph <[4]ma...@rowan.edu> wrote: > Zowie!! Just mention, in passing that one of the sacred cows is somehow not the best idea, and the floodgates open! Well, the writer said (and not in passing a it was the sole subject of his post) that resting the little finger on the top was a "crutch" and "undeveloped right-hand technique," because he didn't understand that it was a considered and common part of lute technique; a little like telling a horn player to get his hand out of the bell because it might affect the sound, or telling an electric guitar player "it's insane to stick electrical wires in a guitar! Unplug that damn thing before you get electrocuted, you fool!." A The writer lacked basic information, and it's a function of this group to disseminate information. A So I don't think you've got much cause to be zowieing. > In all of this justification for using the pinky on the face, I have heard nothing by way of explaining why it's necessary. Not surprising, since nobody in this thread has asked why it's necessary, which in turn is probably because nobody has said it's necessary. To get on or off this list see list information at [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com 2. http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/ 3. mailto:howardpos...@ca.rr.com 4. mailto:ma...@rowan.edu 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Bare spot on soundboard.
On Jul 28, 2014, at 8:16 PM, Mayes, Joseph wrote: > Zowie!! Just mention, in passing that one of the sacred cows is somehow not > the best idea, and the floodgates open! Well, the writer said (and not in passing — it was the sole subject of his post) that resting the little finger on the top was a “crutch" and "undeveloped right-hand technique," because he didn’t understand that it was a considered and common part of lute technique; a little like telling a horn player to get his hand out of the bell because it might affect the sound, or telling an electric guitar player "it’s insane to stick electrical wires in a guitar! Unplug that damn thing before you get electrocuted, you fool!." The writer lacked basic information, and it’s a function of this group to disseminate information. So I don’t think you’ve got much cause to be zowieing. > In all of this justification for using the pinky on the face, I have heard > nothing by way of explaining why it's necessary. Not surprising, since nobody in this thread has asked why it’s necessary, which in turn is probably because nobody has said it’s necessary. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: fuzzy lute
On Jul 28, 2014, at 6:39 AM, wayne cripps wrote: > One of my lutes has a varnish finish, and in the humid weather the fuzz from > the case lining sticks to the varnish, and gives part of the bowl a flocked > look! Can you suggest a way to get the fuzz off and keep it from sticking > again? The lute is about 20 years old. Is it possible that the problem is the case material? Just asking... To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Bare spot on soundboard.
Zowie!! Just mention, in passing that one of the sacred cows is somehow not the best idea, and the floodgates open! In all of this justification for using the pinky on the face, I have heard nothing by way of explaining why it's necessary. Oh yeah, the old guys did it, so it must be the right thing to do - exactly why so many guitarists after Segovia bent their wrists. Just my $.02 Joseph Mayes From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Bruno Correia [bruno.l...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 1:54 PM To: List LUTELIST Subject: [LUTE] Re: Bare spot on soundboard. Dear Tobiah, You should check jazz guitarist Martin Taylor, he always rests his pinky on the soundboard or the tap plate many archtop guitars have. He plays very difficult polyphonic jazz arrangements. Regards. A A 2014-07-28 14:44 GMT-03:00 Tobiah <[1]t...@tobiah.org>: On 07/28/2014 10:33 AM, Tobiah wrote: On 07/28/2014 10:23 AM, David Rastall wrote: We-ell, not exactly. A The pinkie-on-the-soundboard thing is legitimate renaissance lute technique. A It's described in treatises dating all the way back to the 16th century. A I once had an opportunity to play Jakob Lindberg's Rauolf lute that dates back to 1590, and sure enough, there was the mark on the soundboard that bears the imprint of 400 years worth of pinkies! A You'll also notice that some early 19th-century guitars have a resting place glued on to the top for the player's pinkie. A Plus, I certainly wouldn't say that Merle Travis finger style playing was developed by players with inadequate right hand techniques. A Not to mention bluegrass banjo playersa| Fair enough. A I retract my comment! I still want to retain my evaluation of this usage of the pinky as a crutch, however popular it may have been throughout the centuries. A I used it as a youth and outgrew it, and having been on both sides of the fence, and experiencing the benefits and freedoms of having shed it, in that way I stand behind my original statement. Tobiah To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Bruno Figueiredo A Pesquisador autA'nomo da prA!tica e interpretaAS:A-L-o historicamente informada no alaA-ode e teorba. Doutor em PrA!ticas InterpretativasA pela Universidade Federal do Estado do Rio de Janeiro. -- References 1. mailto:t...@tobiah.org 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Bare spot on soundboard.
That abysmal Segovian cocked wrist is largely passé as modern guitarists outgrow the memory of Segovia's influence. It has some holders on among those who still believe Segovia's is THE way. However, most modern players of note (especially the fiery young hotheads who win competitions) opt for a much more natural (and more conducive to long-term functionality) straight-wrist playing position. Best, Eugene -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Martin Shepherd Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 2:16 PM To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Bare spot on soundboard. Another thing to consider is the height of the strings above the soundboard - on a modern "classical" guitar, the height is much greater than on a typical renaissance (or baroque) lute, so putting the little finger (pinky) down makes no sense. I think Sor did it, but he had a different guitar. Tongue-not-entirely-in-cheek: if you want to talk about "inefficient" technique, just look at the horrific bend in the wrist which is considered normal on the (classical) guitar, and causes all kinds of problems. Unfortunately our greatest expert has just passed away, and can no longer add his voice Martin To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Bare spot on soundboard.
Same terminology commonly used here in the US regarding the French-polish process . . . but usually followed by a homonymous giggle or snigger. Best, Eugene -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Martyn Hodgson Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 11:16 AM To: Geoff Gaherty; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Bare spot on soundboard. A 'rubber' in this context isn't an eraser - the other meaning for the term outside the USA - much less a condom! It's a piece of cloth loaded with a finish which is 'rubbed' onto the surface. The terminology is fairly old and also commonly used by French polishers for their spirit finishes. MH __ From: Geoff Gaherty To: "lute@cs.dartmouth.edu" Sent: Monday, 28 July 2014, 13:03 Subject: [LUTE] Re: Bare spot on soundboard. On 2014-07-28, 2:52 AM, Martyn Hodgson wrote: > Apply sparingly with a rubber, wipe off any excess and leave for >several weeks to more fully oxidise and harden. Remind us what "rubber" means in the UK. In North America it means "condom"! Geoff -- Geoff Gaherty Foxmead Observatory Coldwater, Ontario, Canada [1]http://www.gaherty.ca [2]http://starrynightskyevents.blogspot.com/ To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.gaherty.ca/ 2. http://starrynightskyevents.blogspot.com/ 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Bare spot on soundboard.
Another thing to consider is the height of the strings above the soundboard - on a modern "classical" guitar, the height is much greater than on a typical renaissance (or baroque) lute, so putting the little finger (pinky) down makes no sense. I think Sor did it, but he had a different guitar. Tongue-not-entirely-in-cheek: if you want to talk about "inefficient" technique, just look at the horrific bend in the wrist which is considered normal on the (classical) guitar, and causes all kinds of problems. Unfortunately our greatest expert has just passed away, and can no longer add his voice Martin To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Bare spot on soundboard.
"More of a guitar player" Well, it could possibly be that Herbert Ward is more of a LUTE player, in which case pinkie down is not a crutch; in fact most of us aspire to be cripples just like Francesco da Milano, John Dowland, Charles Mouton, Sylvius Weiss, and a whole bunch of other cripples. It's a different instrument. My own lute tops stay clean, because my pinkie (pinky?) only lightly touches down some of the time, but folks is different. I've noticed that amongst even virtuoso non-classical guitarists who employ the plectrum, some have the pinkie down, & some don't. "Pick guards" on Jazz archtops seem to be more for pinkie stability at an appropriate distance to the string plane, as were some early Classical guitars built for the likes of Napoleon Coste, when the fingerboard was elevated above the plane of the soundboard, which is why pinkie down on modern classical guitar doesn't work. As a technical exercise, I can do a 1st course full tremolo- p i m a (reverse of the guitarist's usual finger order) with the pinkie DOWN on the soundboard in thumb-inside position. For kicks & giggles I've even done a bit of "Recuerdos de la Alambra" by Tarrega; but tremolo really bogs down on doubled, inside courses. Maybe that's a good thing in this case! On 7/28/2014 9:57 AM, Tobiah wrote: On 07/27/2014 01:51 PM, Herbert Ward wrote: I've worn a spot on the soundboard with my RH pinkie. The bare wood is starting to show through the finish. Should I do anything? I'm more of a guitar player, but I would suggest that this is a symptom of an undeveloped right-hand technique. I'd go as far as to say that you are witnessing the impression made by an appendage that has been long used as a crutch. Tobiah To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Bare spot on soundboard.
Dear Tobiah, You should check jazz guitarist Martin Taylor, he always rests his pinky on the soundboard or the tap plate many archtop guitars have. He plays very difficult polyphonic jazz arrangements. Regards. A A 2014-07-28 14:44 GMT-03:00 Tobiah <[1]t...@tobiah.org>: On 07/28/2014 10:33 AM, Tobiah wrote: On 07/28/2014 10:23 AM, David Rastall wrote: We-ell, not exactly. A The pinkie-on-the-soundboard thing is legitimate renaissance lute technique. A It's described in treatises dating all the way back to the 16th century. A I once had an opportunity to play Jakob Lindberg's Rauolf lute that dates back to 1590, and sure enough, there was the mark on the soundboard that bears the imprint of 400 years worth of pinkies! A You'll also notice that some early 19th-century guitars have a resting place glued on to the top for the player's pinkie. A Plus, I certainly wouldn't say that Merle Travis finger style playing was developed by players with inadequate right hand techniques. A Not to mention bluegrass banjo playersa| Fair enough. A I retract my comment! I still want to retain my evaluation of this usage of the pinky as a crutch, however popular it may have been throughout the centuries. A I used it as a youth and outgrew it, and having been on both sides of the fence, and experiencing the benefits and freedoms of having shed it, in that way I stand behind my original statement. Tobiah To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Bruno Figueiredo A Pesquisador autA'nomo da prA!tica e interpretaAS:A-L-o historicamente informada no alaA-ode e teorba. Doutor em PrA!ticas InterpretativasA pela Universidade Federal do Estado do Rio de Janeiro. -- References 1. mailto:t...@tobiah.org 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Bare spot on soundboard.
Kind of like Willie Nelson's guitar? Wear it proudly! http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e0/Trigger-Willie_Nelson.jpg Alain On 07/28/2014 10:44 AM, Tobiah wrote: On 07/28/2014 10:33 AM, Tobiah wrote: On 07/28/2014 10:23 AM, David Rastall wrote: We-ell, not exactly. The pinkie-on-the-soundboard thing is legitimate renaissance lute technique. It's described in treatises dating all the way back to the 16th century. I once had an opportunity to play Jakob Lindberg’s Rauolf lute that dates back to 1590, and sure enough, there was the mark on the soundboard that bears the imprint of 400 years worth of pinkies! You’ll also notice that some early 19th-century guitars have a resting place glued on to the top for the player’s pinkie. Plus, I certainly wouldn’t say that Merle Travis finger style playing was developed by players with inadequate right hand techniques. Not to mention bluegrass banjo players… Fair enough. I retract my comment! I still want to retain my evaluation of this usage of the pinky as a crutch, however popular it may have been throughout the centuries. I used it as a youth and outgrew it, and having been on both sides of the fence, and experiencing the benefits and freedoms of having shed it, in that way I stand behind my original statement. Tobiah To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Bare spot on soundboard.
On 07/28/2014 10:33 AM, Tobiah wrote: On 07/28/2014 10:23 AM, David Rastall wrote: We-ell, not exactly. The pinkie-on-the-soundboard thing is legitimate renaissance lute technique. It's described in treatises dating all the way back to the 16th century. I once had an opportunity to play Jakob Lindberg’s Rauolf lute that dates back to 1590, and sure enough, there was the mark on the soundboard that bears the imprint of 400 years worth of pinkies! You’ll also notice that some early 19th-century guitars have a resting place glued on to the top for the player’s pinkie. Plus, I certainly wouldn’t say that Merle Travis finger style playing was developed by players with inadequate right hand techniques. Not to mention bluegrass banjo players… Fair enough. I retract my comment! I still want to retain my evaluation of this usage of the pinky as a crutch, however popular it may have been throughout the centuries. I used it as a youth and outgrew it, and having been on both sides of the fence, and experiencing the benefits and freedoms of having shed it, in that way I stand behind my original statement. Tobiah To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Bare spot on soundboard.
On 07/28/2014 10:23 AM, David Rastall wrote: We-ell, not exactly. The pinkie-on-the-soundboard thing is legitimate renaissance lute technique. It's described in treatises dating all the way back to the 16th century. I once had an opportunity to play Jakob Lindberg’s Rauolf lute that dates back to 1590, and sure enough, there was the mark on the soundboard that bears the imprint of 400 years worth of pinkies! You’ll also notice that some early 19th-century guitars have a resting place glued on to the top for the player’s pinkie. Plus, I certainly wouldn’t say that Merle Travis finger style playing was developed by players with inadequate right hand techniques. Not to mention bluegrass banjo players… Fair enough. I retract my comment! Tobiah On Jul 28, 2014, at 12:57 PM, Tobiah wrote: On 07/27/2014 01:51 PM, Herbert Ward wrote: I've worn a spot on the soundboard with my RH pinkie. The bare wood is starting to show through the finish. Should I do anything? I'm more of a guitar player, but I would suggest that this is a symptom of an undeveloped right-hand technique. I'd go as far as to say that you are witnessing the impression made by an appendage that has been long used as a crutch. Tobiah To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Bare spot on soundboard.
We-ell, not exactly. The pinkie-on-the-soundboard thing is legitimate renaissance lute technique. It's described in treatises dating all the way back to the 16th century. I once had an opportunity to play Jakob Lindberg’s Rauolf lute that dates back to 1590, and sure enough, there was the mark on the soundboard that bears the imprint of 400 years worth of pinkies! You’ll also notice that some early 19th-century guitars have a resting place glued on to the top for the player’s pinkie. Plus, I certainly wouldn’t say that Merle Travis finger style playing was developed by players with inadequate right hand techniques. Not to mention bluegrass banjo players… DR On Jul 28, 2014, at 12:57 PM, Tobiah wrote: > On 07/27/2014 01:51 PM, Herbert Ward wrote: >> I've worn a spot on the soundboard with my RH pinkie. >> The bare wood is starting to show through the finish. >> Should I do anything? > > I'm more of a guitar player, but I would suggest that > this is a symptom of an undeveloped right-hand technique. > I'd go as far as to say that you are witnessing the > impression made by an appendage that has been long used > as a crutch. > > Tobiah > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Bare spot on soundboard.
On 07/27/2014 01:51 PM, Herbert Ward wrote: I've worn a spot on the soundboard with my RH pinkie. The bare wood is starting to show through the finish. Should I do anything? I'm more of a guitar player, but I would suggest that this is a symptom of an undeveloped right-hand technique. I'd go as far as to say that you are witnessing the impression made by an appendage that has been long used as a crutch. Tobiah To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: fuzzy lute
I am forwarding this at David's request .. > From: "David Brown" > Subject: RE: [LUTE] fuzzy lute > Date: July 28, 2014 at 11:21:55 AM EDT > > Hello Wayne, > > Sorry for not replying to the list, but the ease of just hitting "reply" is > the line of least resistance this morning. Feel free to CC this to the list. > > I hope I can help you with this matter. First off, it would be good to know > the maker. When you say "varnish", I assume you think it is an "oil" based > varnish? A spirit based varnish can exhibit these symptoms, too. > Do consider M. Daille's words, checking with the luthier, waiting for > cooler, dryer weather and trying a light polish to remove the fuzz. This is > good advice. > > Mainly, I see this issue with the linseed/resin varnishes that many luthiers > cook up or often called turpene varnishes. They are great varnishes, but > often can soften with heat and humidity. They really need to be cooked > properly and the quality of the polymerized oil high. > > I often get instruments that have softened by body heat, summer temps and > humidity. The players body chemistry can have come into play as well. Often > this mixes into a soft, gooey mess that will never harden and often comes > off during cleaning. I have even redone the varnish on extreme cases. > > Any steps should be tried on a very small spot before proceeding with the > rest of the instrument. > > I would try the light polish first as mentioned by M. Daille. If this > doesn't work you could also try the following. > > This method is used more when there is more dirt and "mung" incorporated > into the varnish. Try a mix of water and Murphys oil soap. Dr. Bronners > castile soap is another you can try, but it is a little more aggressive. Use > the soap in very small amounts on a slightly moist cloth. If this works, > continue this process maybe over several sessions, allowing the lute to > rest. The varnish is soft and will take prints and the rubbing will soften > it further. If this does not work, then you will need to use a more > aggressive solution which I would suggest a luthier who is used to working > with these type of varnishes continue the work. It depends how deeply > imbedded the lining fibers are in the finish. Aggressive scrubbing can > remove this varnish. > If it does work, the lute could maintain the high polish or be a little > dull. Let it dry in indirect sun with hopefully low humidity. You could try > a fine violin polish for oil finishes to restore the gloss. After the > instrument has dried more in the indirect sun, use high grade wax with a > high percentage of carnauba in it to make a barrier. This type of wax should > be available from a high end woodworking or antique restoration supply > place. Use this very sparingly also. It can potentially soften the varnish > if over applied. Again allow to dry as the rubbing will soften the varnish > again. This wax can help it from sticking to the case. A cloth can also be > put in the case as a buffer, but you might just get another type of pattern > the next time... > > I hope this helps. > > Sincerely, > > David > >David B. Brown, Luthier >3811 Ellerslie Avenue > Baltimore, MD 21218-1952 >arpali...@gmail.com > 410-366-4865 > > > > -Original Message- > From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf > Of wayne cripps > Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 9:40 AM > To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > Subject: [LUTE] fuzzy lute > > > Hi people - > > One of my lutes has a varnish finish, and in the humid weather the fuzz > from the case lining sticks to the varnish, and gives part of the bowl a > flocked look! Can you suggest a way to get the fuzz off and keep it from > sticking again? The lute is about 20 years old. > > Wayne > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >
[LUTE] Re: Bare spot on soundboard.
I did mean a plastic rubber (UK) or eraser (US) not a cloth to rub a finish on. Matthew > On Jul 28, 2014, at 17:16, Martyn Hodgson wrote: > > A 'rubber' in this context isn't an eraser - the other meaning for the > term outside the USA - much less a condom! It's a piece of cloth loaded > with a finish which is 'rubbed' onto the surface. The terminology is > fairly old and also commonly used by French polishers for their spirit > finishes. > MH > __ > > From: Geoff Gaherty > To: "lute@cs.dartmouth.edu" > Sent: Monday, 28 July 2014, 13:03 > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Bare spot on soundboard. >> On 2014-07-28, 2:52 AM, Martyn Hodgson wrote: >> Apply sparingly with a rubber, wipe off any excess and leave for >> several weeks to more fully oxidise and harden. > Remind us what "rubber" means in the UK. In North America it means > "condom"! > Geoff > -- > Geoff Gaherty > Foxmead Observatory > Coldwater, Ontario, Canada > [1]http://www.gaherty.ca > [2]http://starrynightskyevents.blogspot.com/ > To get on or off this list see list information at > [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > -- > > References > > 1. http://www.gaherty.ca/ > 2. http://starrynightskyevents.blogspot.com/ > 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: fuzzy lute
Strip off the varnish and leave plain - or finish with Stand oil MH __ From: wayne cripps To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, 28 July 2014, 14:39 Subject: [LUTE] fuzzy lute Hi people - One of my lutes has a varnish finish, and in the humid weather the fuzz from the case lining sticks to the varnish, and gives part of the bowl a flocked look! Can you suggest a way to get the fuzz off and keep it from sticking again? The lute is about 20 years old. Wayne To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Bare spot on soundboard.
A 'rubber' in this context isn't an eraser - the other meaning for the term outside the USA - much less a condom! It's a piece of cloth loaded with a finish which is 'rubbed' onto the surface. The terminology is fairly old and also commonly used by French polishers for their spirit finishes. MH __ From: Geoff Gaherty To: "lute@cs.dartmouth.edu" Sent: Monday, 28 July 2014, 13:03 Subject: [LUTE] Re: Bare spot on soundboard. On 2014-07-28, 2:52 AM, Martyn Hodgson wrote: > Apply sparingly with a rubber, wipe off any excess and leave for >several weeks to more fully oxidise and harden. Remind us what "rubber" means in the UK. In North America it means "condom"! Geoff -- Geoff Gaherty Foxmead Observatory Coldwater, Ontario, Canada [1]http://www.gaherty.ca [2]http://starrynightskyevents.blogspot.com/ To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.gaherty.ca/ 2. http://starrynightskyevents.blogspot.com/ 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Bare spot on soundboard.
TREE EDITION Albert Reyerman Finkenberg 89 23558 Luebeck Germany albertreyer...@kabelmail.de http://www.tree-edition.com ++49(0)451 899 78 48 Find even more music books at http://tree-edition.magix.net/public/ Besuchen Sie auch die Seite http://laute-und-Musik.de Am 28.07.2014 15:21, schrieb Matthew Daillie: This is inevitable and is part of the life of the lute. The more worn it is, the more it shows you've been practicing! After a few years, the soundboards of the instruments of some professional players can look as though they are going to develop a hole where the little finger rests, but I've never seen that actually happen. If you wash your hands before you play and keep the fingernail of your little finger short, then you have absolutely nothing to worry about. I wouldn't attempt to try any sort of patching of the finish, it will probably just make things worse. If the soundboard is dirty you can try using a plastic (not rubber) eraser but you have to be very careful not to apply any pressure and to go along the grain of the wood. In time you probably won't even notice that there is a mark where your little finger rests and if you do, you might actually grow to like it!. Best, Matthew On 27 juil. 2014, at 22:51, Herbert Ward wrote: I've worn a spot on the soundboard with my RH pinkie. The bare wood is starting to show through the finish. Should I do anything? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html - E-Mail ist virenfrei. Von AVG uberpruft - www.avg.de Version: 2014.0.4716 / Virendatenbank: 3986/7934 - Ausgabedatum: 28.07.2014 .
[LUTE] Re: fuzzy lute
I have a nice pattern on the back of one of my lutes. It comes from a fancy concert shirt I was wearing during a particularly hot concert. In the e-guitar world these marks of wear and tear of the great players are faithfully reproduced in 'relic' models. Perhaps one day they will sell 'relic' models of the lutes of the great lute players of today? David *** David van Ooijen [1]davidvanooi...@gmail.com [2]www.davidvanooijen.nl *** -- References 1. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com 2. http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: fuzzy lute
I've only seen this when an instrument is shipped in hot weather and gets stuck in some non air-conditioned warehouse for a long period. I am surprised that this would happen if you are keeping your lute in the case in an air-conditioned environment, its got to get really hot for this to occur I thought. When I have to ship an instrument in the summer I always put it in an old cotton t-shirt to prevent this. On Mon, Jul 28, 2014 at 10:07 AM, Matthew Daillie <[1]dail...@club-internet.fr> wrote: Hi Wayne, This is a common problem with instruments that are new but it is strange that your varnish has not hardened after all these years. I you leave it out of the case for a while, do the marks go away? Some varnishes seem to be 'self-healing' like that. It's difficult to give a general recommendation to solve this type of problem; it is best to check with the maker first as varnish recipes are very personal and each luthier will probably have a polish he would recommend for his particular finish. In my experience, if you leave the lute out of its case for a while and then use a very light A polish (I have some water-based stuff from here in France which can be diluted and is called 'Super Nikco Vernilline) with some fine non abrasive wadding (such as is used for polishing cars) then you could probably get the marks to disappear completely. It would probably be best to wait for the weather to get cooler and less humid. You could also put some non-marking cloth in the case so that the lute's finish is not directly in contact with the lining. Obviously get advice from your lute maker and if you do use a polish, try on a small part of the surface first before risking doing any damage. Best Matthew On 28 juil. 2014, at 15:39, wayne cripps <[2]w...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote: > > Hi people - > > One of my lutes has a varnish finish, and in the humid weather the fuzz from the case lining sticks to the varnish, and gives part of the bowl a flocked look! A Can you suggest a way to get the fuzz off and keep it from sticking again? A The lute is about 20 years old. > > A Wayne > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:dail...@club-internet.fr 2. mailto:w...@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: fuzzy lute
Hi Wayne, This is a common problem with instruments that are new but it is strange that your varnish has not hardened after all these years. I you leave it out of the case for a while, do the marks go away? Some varnishes seem to be 'self-healing' like that. It's difficult to give a general recommendation to solve this type of problem; it is best to check with the maker first as varnish recipes are very personal and each luthier will probably have a polish he would recommend for his particular finish. In my experience, if you leave the lute out of its case for a while and then use a very light polish (I have some water-based stuff from here in France which can be diluted and is called 'Super Nikco Vernilline) with some fine non abrasive wadding (such as is used for polishing cars) then you could probably get the marks to disappear completely. It would probably be best to wait for the weather to get cooler and less humid. You could also put some non-marking cloth in the case so that the lute's finish is not directly in contact with the lining. Obviously get advice from your lute maker and if you do use a polish, try on a small part of the surface first before risking doing any damage. Best Matthew On 28 juil. 2014, at 15:39, wayne cripps wrote: > > Hi people - > > One of my lutes has a varnish finish, and in the humid weather the fuzz from > the case lining sticks to the varnish, and gives part of the bowl a flocked > look! Can you suggest a way to get the fuzz off and keep it from sticking > again? The lute is about 20 years old. > > Wayne > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Bare spot on soundboard.
not dirt! it's patina! Gesendet: Montag, 28. Juli 2014 um 15:21 Uhr Von: "Matthew Daillie" An: "Herbert Ward" Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Bare spot on soundboard. This is inevitable and is part of the life of the lute. The more worn it is, the more it shows you've been practicing! After a few years, the soundboards of the instruments of some professional players can look as though they are going to develop a hole where the little finger rests, but I've never seen that actually happen. If you wash your hands before you play and keep the fingernail of your little finger short, then you have absolutely nothing to worry about. I wouldn't attempt to try any sort of patching of the finish, it will probably just make things worse. If the soundboard is dirty you can try using a plastic (not rubber) eraser but you have to be very careful not to apply any pressure and to go along the grain of the wood. In time you probably won't even notice that there is a mark where your little finger rests and if you do, you might actually grow to like it!. Best, Matthew On 27 juil. 2014, at 22:51, Herbert Ward wrote: > I've worn a spot on the soundboard with my RH pinkie. > The bare wood is starting to show through the finish. > Should I do anything? > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] fuzzy lute
Hi people - One of my lutes has a varnish finish, and in the humid weather the fuzz from the case lining sticks to the varnish, and gives part of the bowl a flocked look! Can you suggest a way to get the fuzz off and keep it from sticking again? The lute is about 20 years old. Wayne To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Bare spot on soundboard.
This is inevitable and is part of the life of the lute. The more worn it is, the more it shows you've been practicing! After a few years, the soundboards of the instruments of some professional players can look as though they are going to develop a hole where the little finger rests, but I've never seen that actually happen. If you wash your hands before you play and keep the fingernail of your little finger short, then you have absolutely nothing to worry about. I wouldn't attempt to try any sort of patching of the finish, it will probably just make things worse. If the soundboard is dirty you can try using a plastic (not rubber) eraser but you have to be very careful not to apply any pressure and to go along the grain of the wood. In time you probably won't even notice that there is a mark where your little finger rests and if you do, you might actually grow to like it!. Best, Matthew On 27 juil. 2014, at 22:51, Herbert Ward wrote: > I've worn a spot on the soundboard with my RH pinkie. > The bare wood is starting to show through the finish. > Should I do anything? > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Bare spot on soundboard.
On 2014-07-28, 2:52 AM, Martyn Hodgson wrote: Apply sparingly with a rubber, wipe off any excess and leave for several weeks to more fully oxidise and harden. Remind us what "rubber" means in the UK. In North America it means "condom"! Geoff -- Geoff Gaherty Foxmead Observatory Coldwater, Ontario, Canada http://www.gaherty.ca http://starrynightskyevents.blogspot.com/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Bare spot on soundboard.
Rubbers (British English) usually do the trick for me, i.e. getting pinkie spots off the soundboard. Mathias > -Original Message- > From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of > Martyn Hodgson > Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 8:53 AM > To: Herbert Ward; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Bare spot on soundboard. > >To restore the appearance to its new form, assuming this is sought, >much depends on the finish originally employed by the maker. >Early lute (and guitar) bellies show no significant signs of any >obvious surface coating, such as a shellac spirit based finish or even >an oil varnish. However, as was pointed out many years ago, old bellies >do no exhibit the sort of major dirt ingress which you mention. And >this cannot simply be put down to natural ageing and darkening of the >wood which to some extent may reduce the contrast between dirty spots >and surrounding wood. >One suggestion (originally by Ian Harwood in FoMRHI Quarterly) has been >egg tempera - a mixture of linseed oil and egg - which was certainly a >known coating at the time and much used by painters but can, over time, >leave a greenish tint and areas of sheen. Another is the use of Stand >Oil - also well known from earliest times. This is partially oxidised >linseed oil which is very viscous and does not penetrate the wood but >results in a matt finish which soon fully oxidises to a hard, but >flexible, coating. >Avoid commercial 'Stand Oil' which is generally nowadays produced by >adding chemicals to linseed oil to give some of the effects of true >Stand Oil. Simply pour linseed oil into an open dish and allow to stand >for several weeks (stirring occasionally to avoid skinning) until it >reaches a consistency of a thick treacle. >Apply sparingly with a rubber, wipe off any excess and leave for >several weeks to more fully oxidise and harden. Of course, you should >clean the affected spot(s) before doing this and if any other finish >has been applied (eg spirit shellac/French polish, modern matt >finishes, etc) this would need to be removed first. >MH > > __ > >From: Herbert Ward >To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu >Sent: Sunday, 27 July 2014, 21:51 >Subject: [LUTE] Bare spot on soundboard. >I've worn a spot on the soundboard with my RH pinkie. >The bare wood is starting to show through the finish. >Should I do anything? >To get on or off this list see list information at >[1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > >-- > > References > >1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Bare spot on soundboard.
Glair On 7/27/2014 4:51 PM, Herbert Ward wrote: I've worn a spot on the soundboard with my RH pinkie. The bare wood is starting to show through the finish. Should I do anything? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
